Clicked in as fast as an AoE2 Huscarl

@TheFallofRome

4 жыл бұрын

That made me chuckle. I'm partial to playing as the Huns in AoE2

@scythian-rus5421

3 жыл бұрын

The goths came from SCATINAVIA (NEW SCYTHIA) which is a piece of land places in Northwest Russia by the Gothic historian Jordan which is obvious because he says that Scatinavia is bouded East by the river Vagus which is the river Vaga in Russia.

@godsaveme

2 жыл бұрын

@@scythian-rus5421 Scatinavia?? Fuck sake that even made me chuckle a bit.

@scythian-rus5421

2 жыл бұрын

@@godsaveme The Scandza that Jordan talks about is quite obviously Northwest Russia if you read his description by the letter he puts it in the vicinity of the Vistula river (he says its in front of it) and he implies that it borders both Germany and Scythia (Southern Scandza).

@godsaveme

2 жыл бұрын

@@scythian-rus5421 good thing then that northwest russia, Karelin is quite far from scythian steppes above greece, north macedonia and such. Scandza is probably "scatinavian" south of scania. but who knows.

As the name suggests, they obviously came from Hot Topic.

@crogersdev

3 жыл бұрын

I'm dead 😂😂😂

@scintillam_dei

3 жыл бұрын

Their skin looks cold and dead though, so what is hot about Goths except some of the ladies? Long black hair and white skin is the most stunning look for a woman, objectively. :-)

@powrxplor69

3 жыл бұрын

@ Flynn Tom, no those would be a later tribe, more accurately named the Poseurs. The true Goths originally came from Leeds and London then migrated to Los Angeles in circa 1981 ad per the material culture that can be found there.

@AndreasErikssonSoulFuse

3 жыл бұрын

I havet even wached the video. Im from Sweden, the southern part of Sweden are gothia. We have Gotland, Göteborg, Götaland etc, history and mythology way back. Even "Skåne" back in the day, the parts of Sweden - Skåne, Halland, Småland and Blekinge and more was called Gothia.

@scythian-rus5421

3 жыл бұрын

The goths came from SCATINAVIA (NEW SCYTHIA) which is a piece of land places in Northwest Russia by the Gothic historian Jordan which is obvious because he says that Scatinavia is bouded East by the river Vagus which is the river Vaga in Russia.

No unnecessary frills, no burden of "entertainment" and every video isnt rehash of the same tired topics and if it is a familiar topic you do well at providing a convincing and fresh perspective. Thanks for keeping things simple, informative and even though it's not quite long form it's much better than a 7 minute video which is not nearly enough time to tell a compelling tale

@firstnamelastname2197

Жыл бұрын

however sometimes he pronounces important historical names or places in a too danish way or whatever so im afraid ill have to bail

@firstnamelastname2197

Жыл бұрын

@@FutureBoyWonder its something i have to do. Peace

Another awesome vid! Always highlights my day when I see a new upload.

The goths was said they came from an island in the middle of the Baltic sea and draw the contours of Gotland. Koncidering the climate cathastrophie of 530, the very northern latitude and that the Gotland people, today gutar, was a seafaring people, we understand that they could not cultivate the land if the crops froze or sail the ice covered sea, their only option was to move south. Sea faring at that time incorporated professional soldiers to defend the merchant chips, so they had well trained soldiers and weapons with them.

@peacefulmt244

9 ай бұрын

We know that gutar travelled through russian rivers as early as the bronze age aswell, there are archeological evidence that also suggests ostrogothic warriors travelled "back" to Gotland around the 500s after a certain kings death

@copperlemon1

7 ай бұрын

@@peacefulmt244 That sounds like the story of the Heruli

@mihaiilie8808

6 ай бұрын

The goths from Gotland and Gothenburg come from Dacian getae( the visigoths-the first goths). With the Bible of Ulfillas ( a Bulgarian not a Greek), we converted the germanics to Arian Christianity. That's why Sweden, Denmark and Finland were named Dacia in official documents. In 410 the sacking of Rome was done by dacian visigoths not germanics. Alaric was buried under a diverted river like a dacian.

@atlet1

6 ай бұрын

@@mihaiilie8808 Gothenburg(Göteborg in Swedish) is a new town named after southern Sweden(Götaland) and have nothing to do with the Goths). Gotland is the very old name of the land of a very old seafaring people. Christianity in Sweden came originally from Miklagaard, as Swedes called Constantinopel. So ortodox Christianity was established before the Roman catholic faith took over.

@mihaiilie8808

6 ай бұрын

@@atlet1 first Christian religion you had wasn't normal Christianity but Arian Christianity from the Ulfillas Bible. That's a type of heretic Christianity. Ulfillas was a bulgarian( not a Greek, this is important) and he made up the Gothic language and alphabet. He is the first writer of the germanic world but himself wasn't germanic at all. The visigoth dacians( the getae) that sacked Rome in 410 had kidnaped Ulfillas and he was ordered to write a Bible in order to spread Christianity to the germanics. The getae from Romania are trachian not germanics just like Ulfillas.

Your videos are so good! High level content. Could please a video about the visigoths, the lombards and the alamanni?

Superb. For the first time I have a much better and clearer idea of this group of people who had such deep influence and impact on the history of humanity and who has driven the final nail in the coffin of the mighty western Romanian Empire. Thank you for your enlightening expertise, knowledge and great presentation.

"Academically, doubt is a virtue. It is wise to be cautious, virtuous to allow for different points of view. The problem arises when this attitude hardens: then doubting becomes a certainty in itself, and we forget the importance of doubting our doubt." - Peter Kingsley

@scythian-rus5421

3 жыл бұрын

The goths came from SCATINAVIA (NEW SCYTHIA) which is a piece of land places in Northwest Russia by the Gothic historian Jordan which is obvious because he says that Scatinavia is bouded East by the river Vagus which is the river Vaga in Russia.

@Luigi_Mario_1997

2 жыл бұрын

@@scythian-rus5421 you made this account just a post this comment? Sad.

@scythian-rus5421

2 жыл бұрын

@@Luigi_Mario_1997 Ya I made this account to tackle disinformation related to history, why did you make your account to follow people and try to make them feel bad for posting comments, thats even sadder tbh.

@hankhill3365

Жыл бұрын

@@Luigi_Mario_1997 stfu Nintendo playing mf

@talisikid1618

Жыл бұрын

But only views that can be supported. Mere opinion has no value. In fact, mere opinion is excess baggage.

could it of been a similar situation to the swedes creating the Kievan Rus?

@JohnSmith-rk6jy

3 жыл бұрын

This is probably the best analogy.

Ukrainian language has a significant gothic substract and a lot of words in the language has an obvious gothic origin, so it looks like they were a dominant power for a large period and interaction with slavic tribes was also huge, it was described in sagas as well see for instance "The saga of Hervor and Heidrek".

@TacticalSquirrel

2 жыл бұрын

The Swedish Vikings intermixed with the Slavs in Kyiv in 9th century, became the Kievan Rus, that's why you have Germanic influence in the Ukrainian language.

@g.aathoz1211

2 жыл бұрын

@@TacticalSquirrel That is much later but why couldn't it be both, how do you distinguish Swedish influence on time from a later time, it is just impossible. However with genetic evidence speculation is less of an issue, already studies are coming out confirming the migration theory.

@kabalofthebloodyspoon

Жыл бұрын

@@g.aathoz1211 the Gothic Bible I would think

@g.aathoz1211

Жыл бұрын

@@kabalofthebloodyspoon Gothic is really close to both older forms of German and Swedish how do one distinguish from where words come? Take English for example another Germanic language, the word "stone" had to come from either the German "stein" or the Scandinavian "sten" but how do we now which is the most likely source? Ukraine have had a lot of contact with both Scandinavians and Germans too, personally I think it is next to very hard to determine origins just like that.

@hankhill3365

Жыл бұрын

@@g.aathoz1211 it didn't come from German or Scandinavian both German and English came from proto Germanic which was in Iron age scandinavia. Both German stein the Scandinavian sten and English stone all come from proto germanic "stainaz"

Wow dude…. Been binging some of ur recent videos after discovering this channel and it’s crazy seeing u without you long hair !

It has been on Swedish television a program that shows old Gotländska ( the dialect/ language on the island Gotland that is part of todays Sweden) is the same as the language of the gothic language spoken in europe.

@gavinrolls1054

Жыл бұрын

old gutnic/gutnish is not the same as Gothic linguistically speaking, though they are related

Well firts thing first! Where are the areas still having names that do coincide with the name Goth. Just look at southerns Sweden where you have the Island of Gotland, the Island of Gotska Sandön, the City of Gothenburg & the southern parts of Sweden called East & West Gotaland & there is probably a lot more to be found, if you start digging!

@TheFallofRome

3 жыл бұрын

So, I’m going to update this video in a few months to revise some of the information, particularly the linguistic similarities between Swedish locations and the name “goth”. But, the important to remember here is that during the Migration Period many of the Germanic tribes were in a period of ethnogenesis, and what it mean to be a goth or frank etc was under constant revision. Our texts don’t necessarily indicate that a stable gothic identity was around until the Romans really began interacting with them. Our main source for any kind of migration comes from Jordanes “Getica”, a text which has significant issues and in all likelihood was probably made up to a large degree. The book you want to look at for this problem is Walter Goffart’s “Barbarian Tides” and Peter Heather’s “Empires and Barbarians”

@andreaslindell

10 ай бұрын

@@TheFallofRome The Gutasaga from the island of Gotland also tells the story of "gutar" leaving the island to move south. So there are more texts than Jordanes that support the migration theory. However, history is not simple, and I would say that the Goths that fought Rome was a mix of people and cultures that developed over time. I think however that both archeology and old sagas support the theory of a migration from southern Scandinavia.

@alexandrutomescu4146

27 күн бұрын

@@andreaslindell GOT no goth.

A linguistic comparison of Proto-Norse and Gothic doesn't really indicate that those languages are more near related than they are to say to Proto-West-Germanic. Proto-Norse is very near the Proto-Germanic stage, as well as Gothic is. Proto-Norse and Proto-Germanic share *a few* sound changes, such as "egg/ada" instead of "ei" (egg), "trygg/triggws" instead of "treu", but not much more than that.

Thank you for the insights.

@TheFallofRome

2 жыл бұрын

You’re welcome!

They carried guitars as battle ax and blk eyeliner for warpaint

Speaking of the island of Gotland in Sweden. The inhabitants there still calles themselves ”gutar” which is formally identical to the Gothic tribal name ”Gutans”. Both derives from Proto-Germanic Gutaniz. Combining that withJordanes account, the language similarities and closeness beteeen the earliest settlements of the Goths and the island of Gotland, I think it is safe to say that the earliest Goths must have come from there.

@AndrewTheFrank

Жыл бұрын

that is what i would think because it is not like the romans giving some people some weapons and insisting they should have a name would make them identify as Germanic, speak a Germanic language and adopt a Germanic material culture. Especially of one that is very far away. There is also a Nordic Saga, if i am not mistaken, which details a battle between the Goths and the Huns. Why would the Nords care about something the Goths did many generations before in their migration south if they saw them as a different people. Instead the the Northern Germans hold onto this migration and travels as if the Goths are a part of their ancestry and have pride in the story of the battle. As if the Goth's are a part of their own culture. And so I think its safe to say that the Goths effectively say they are from Sweden and the ancient Swedes see Goths as a part of their ancestry. Seems to be some kind of cultural tie.

@alriktyrving5051

Жыл бұрын

@@AndrewTheFrank There is also an Old Norse Saga from Gotland called the Gutasaga which relates that there was a migration from the island in ancient times and identifies the emmigrants with a remnant of the Gothic people (Crimean Goths).

@mihaiilie8808

6 ай бұрын

​@@alriktyrving5051The visigoths are the getae or gotsi of Dacia. Goths Gome from Dacia, Romania, as Iordanes say. In Romania we still have Iordanescu name. Ulfillas was bulgarian not Greek. Bulgarians converted to Christian arianism the germanics and reached Sweden. That's why Sweden, Denmark and Finland were named Dacia in official documents.

@alriktyrving5051

6 ай бұрын

@@mihaiilie8808 No

@mihaiilie8808

6 ай бұрын

@@alriktyrving5051 You can Google each claim to see it is true. But we( Romanians) say we didn't do it ( sacking of Rome in 410). Italians, Iordanes, say we did it not the swedes 😂

You're really smart. Please keep making more videos

They're coming from their mom's basement and Tokyo hotel

@scythian-rus5421

3 жыл бұрын

The goths came from SCATINAVIA (NEW SCYTHIA) which is a piece of land places in Northwest Russia by the Gothic historian Jordan which is obvious because he says that Scatinavia is bouded East by the river Vagus which is the river Vaga in Russia.

From a Bauhaus concert in 1978 would be my take. It's a bit of a contested subject but you gotta read up on your music history properly - some people seem to associate them entirely with late 80:ies outfits like The Cure and such, which is oversimplifying it completely. Ironically, the most prolific Goth bands never wanted the moniker to begin with and they never referred to themselves as such - they just wanted to play a more dark and theatrical variant of rock & roll ;).

Great talk, but KZread loaded it with so many commercials, they should pay this guy extra. I guess that’s what I get for watching anything on KZread other than what’s “trending.”

I now this is not directly related, but I'd like to know - what are your thoughts on why the Eastern Roman Emperor decided to "unfriend" Odocaer, his formal vassal and former Foderati officer, and favoured the Goths instead?

(This comment might be too hostile but it's really nothing against you or your views specifically(although I do kinda disagree with the approach), I'm just frustrated at some arguments made by the people you reference) God there is a point where it goes beyond trying to not be simplicistic and it's basically outright rejecting or avoiding "mass" migration as an actual real historical possibility, at almost every turn you try to defend "pots not people" or trying to minimize or interpret evidence the best way possible to align with a worldview where migratory populations are small. This is honestly going a bit too far, this is not some legal battle where we assume a default stance until we prove exactly otherwise, we can't start always by assuming there was no migration and only slightly alter our views to match any evidence that arises. The bar to prove "mass" migration(Peter Heather also criticizes the vagueness of the term and "elite transfer") is raised so high that nothing short to time travelling there would be enough, scarce genetic evidence could be interpreted as a gradual event, complete linguistic replacement could be just elite assimilation, archaeological goods could be moved through trade or small amount of people. I know history and archeology shouldn't be treated like physics or other harder non human sciences, but can we falsify this "pots not people" way of viewing evidence? There is never going to be enough conclusive evidence to force people to accept big migrations in a small time scales, despite our primary sources suggesting so multiple times and evidence allowing and not disproving it. On top of that this magical "Roman ethnogenesis" theory is even more laughable, it doesn't explain anything but supposedly is as serious as migration theory? We have to believe that people outside Roman view had no durable identity, political arrangements, linguistic/religious ties and that the only way for barbarians to create larger identities out of nowhere is if Roman magically create them? How can someone "reject" migration altogether? How do languages move without people? How does he explain the fact that people called "Guthones" existed as mentioned by Tacitus around the Baltic coast of Poland, near if not in the Wielbark Baltic region. There is a world of possible models between "people moving as an unchanging coherent group through hundreds of kilometers and multiple generations" and "mish mash of random populations somehow coalescing in a single core identity tied to a specific language". It would do good to stop favouring the latter and start the discussion simply favouring nothing(not the middle point either) and let the evidence narrow down the range of possibilities without favouring either extreme. Also I really don't get why the only way for Goths to take over the Western extreme of the Steppes was thorugh Roman support, the Goths raided the Balkans, Anatolia and went as deep as Southern Greece multiple times during the 3rd century crisis, how can one push the latest point of Gothic formatio to 350? How do we explain the entire 3rd century then? This to me makes the "small elite" argument even more questionable.

@TheFallofRome

4 жыл бұрын

No disrespect or anything like that taken--I actually agree with you. I wanted this video to serve as an overview of the debates on the topic (which, based on your comment, it sounds like I was successful in doing), rather than being anything definitive. The most reasonable answer, to my mind, is that to an extent we're just not going to know for certain about all of it. Yeah the Gothic language comes from Southern Sweden, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the speakers of that language had anything resembling a later Gothic identity--given the fluctuations of ethnic identity that went on during the entire period it's likely that they didn't, but at the end of the day we just don't know. We can't talk to them. This is why I really enjoyed Heather's "Empires and Barbarians" because he refocused the debate on migrations and movements. A lot of the "pots not peoples" thing is a reaction to currents in scholarship just before and during the Third Reich era, so on the one hand I get the move away from migrations, considering how it got used for wartime German propaganda, but at the same time I think it's a huge mistake to just reject it entirely--people move around, it's what we do. We shouldn't reject any evidence of it, but we should use (I think, anyway) similar degrees of caution that use when interpreting anything else. As far as the Romanocentric ethnogenesis thing, I agree with you there as well. Arguing that it's the main reason for Gothic ethnicity is ridiculous, but it probably played a factor. How large that factor was, though, I'm not sure

@g-rexsaurus794

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheFallofRome >Yeah the Gothic language comes from Southern Sweden I think that's a problem in this argument, we are trying to explain the Sweden-to-Pontic Steppe as a single or at least coherent event but it most likely wasn't because in so far as the linguistic evidence goes Gothic is part of a branch that is more removed from North Germanic than West Germanic is, at least within the traditional linguistic genetic tree model. We really need to isolate Goths and their possible political ancestors "Guthones" from any ancient first pre-Roman Germanic arrival in the Baltic coast of Poland, because while we can actually gauge at the former through some writings and archaeology, the latter is only understandable insofar as linguistics model and flimsy archeological connections go and also it seems to me that the 2 events did not directly happen one after the other. So we should really talk about a South Baltic to Black sea migration, with the Swedish connection being only really trivia and trivial to the main event, the main event being that some East Germanic speakers lived in an material cultural area where a certain tribe with a similar name dwelled and those East Germans moved to the Black Sea bringing some of their material culture, their language and preserving or expanding the mentioned tribal identity/name. >but that doesn't necessarily mean that the speakers of that language had anything resembling a later Gothic identity Definitely, although I think what we know of late pre-Roman Gaul and Tacitus writing about the Ingavaenoes and the other 2 pan-tribal groups show that pan-tribal identities can rise and be evident enough, I'd rather see the transformation of Goths in the steppes as intermixing between Goths and locals while undertaking some form of state formation with all the reinforcements or changes in nature of the identities that existed prior. >We shouldn't reject any evidence of it, but we should use (I think, anyway) similar degrees of caution that use when interpreting anything else. Maybe it's because I don't take the old migration view seriously at all that I think the pots not people camp is going a bit overboard. >Arguing that it's the main reason for Gothic ethnicity is ridiculous, but it probably played a factor. How large that factor was, though, I'm not sure Secondary state formation IMO, emerging communities often rely (in an abstract sense) on the existence of more organized states to grow in complexity and scale. Rome offered the existence of an interconnected world for Goths to look for booty, refugee or work but also the political pressure offered by Roman armies, subsidies, interference. Obviously larger states also offer example on how to run things as well.

@viktornedkov9646

3 жыл бұрын

Completely agree with you G-Rex!

@augustiniumihaila4466

3 жыл бұрын

Good point. Ideas you wrote have to be considerated. (srry , not native).

Great historical analysis. Language don't equals an ethnic identity: Afro American or Bolivians aren't English or Spanish, for example. Also, I like the care you take with the sources.

@TheFallofRome

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I try to pride the channel on the sources thing--I love Metatron and Shadiversity, and channels like it, but it drives me nuts that they don't list or reference where they're getting their information--Shad's "leather armor" videos are the reason why they're needed

@princekalender2154

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheFallofRome not giving references is what distinguishes amateurs from historian. We want to share the knowledge, not be in an ivory tower

@TheFallofRome

4 жыл бұрын

Prince Kalender I agree completely. That’s part of the reason I started this channel

@princekalender2154

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheFallofRome kudos from a historian in Argentina.

@TheFallofRome

4 жыл бұрын

Prince Kalender thank you! What’s your specialty?

I learned a lot from this video, thanks

I've always looked at it through the eyes of etymology and linguistics. Similar to how Swedes originate from the area called Svealand (modern day central Sweden), I've always assumed Goths originate from Götaland and the island of Gotland (modern day southern Sweden, just north of Scania). Another clue is that Götaland was separated into 2 realms, Austergautland/Östergötland - East Gothland(which sounds eerily similar to the name Ostrogoths (eastern Goths)), and Vestergautland/Västergötland/Westrogothia - Western Gothland (which again sounds eerily similar to the name Visigoths (western Goths)). We have historical evidence that Götaland as a whole wasn't initially inhabited by Swedes, so maybe the Goths really do originate from Götaland which would support the great Gothic migration theory as it would've allowed Swedes to migrate further south and essentially settle the now relatively empty, post-migration Götaland.

@eliteranger1001

2 жыл бұрын

Gothic identity was still very present until the 1100's in Sweden. So a good chunk stayed behind. There is one theory that the Suebi tribe is linked to the Svea tribe (Suiones in roman) There were definitely migration going on from all tribes in the north due to the changing climate at the time.

@Mr.Softy2457

2 жыл бұрын

@@eliteranger1001 no

@TheYates27

2 жыл бұрын

The Goths are definitely from Sweden and are the same as the Geats. The problem is academics feel they have to doubt everything

@TaxTaxes

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheYates27 definitely? and it's a scholars job to doubt sources especially ones this old

@CarvedStones

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheYates27 They did originate from southern Sweden like the geats but were forced out during the wielbark period gradually, though some stayed behind. At most they are like distant cousins.

Very cool Perspectives

Making something way more complicated than it is sucks, doesn't it? Bet you a million bucks Goths and all European cultures come from the same place, which is why they're all so similar.

You have an authoritative voice, sir. I pictured you as older! Thank you for using that powerful voice to the benefit of all mankind! You could have been a politician (we both shudder....)

Excellent! Your analysis is very measured, balanced, and humble in admitting that there are limits to our historical knowledge. I completely agree with your statement, that language does not automatically equate to culture or ethnicity. One thing that I have found interesting is the emerging DNA evidence that demonstrates the genetic continuity of Central European Slavic populations in their current lands of residence as far back as the Bronze Age. This new data challenges the notion that the ancestors of modern Slavic Central Europeans, especially Poles, have only been living in Central Europe for the past 1,500 years. Strong genetic continuity links modern Poles with the Bronze Age Lusatian culture, and the Ron Age Wielbark and Przeowrsk culture. While there is archaeological and genetic evidence demonstrating the spread of early Slavic culture in the 6th and 7th centuries across central Europe, groups of settlers were small and did not represent overwhelming amounts of people. In addition, dendrochronological research indicates that some regions of Poland were not depopulated during the migration period and that agriculture and settlement continued unbrokenly (this is true of Wielkopolska and Pomerania). This evidence corresponds with evidence from other regions of Europe, showing that the basic genetic structure of Europe today was already mostly established in the aftermath of the Yamnaya invasions and the establishment of the Corded Ware. I believe that the ancestors of proto-Slavs were spread out across a much wider area of Central and Eastern Europe and earlier than is commonly believed. These peoples may have spoken a proto-Balto-Slavic language or may have spoken Germanic languages while being genetically similar to other ancient populations living along the southern Baltic coast and North-Eastern Europe. Between the 5th and 1st centuries BC, Nordic-Germanic peoples progressively moved south from Scandinavia and populated many areas of Central Europe. In what is now central and southern Germany, they assimilated and expelled many Celtic tribes. We know of this transition because of Roman records that saved this information for us, but in the east, in places such as Poland and the southern Baltic, we have a lot less reliable documentation. Therefore, we cannot know all the processes and changes that occurred in these lands at the time and are left to retrospective theorization. What if proto-Baltic/Slavic peoples were already populating East-Central Europe, and were either replaced or assimilated by a Germanic elite that exported its culture and language? This process could have happened several times, with one notable event being the Gothic migration represented by the southward extension of the Wielbark culture (with the Przeworsk representing the Vandals and maybe even a Germanic/Slavic mix). A relatable and more recent example may be found in Kievan Rus. Western Historiography emphasizes the Nordic/Scandinavian contribution to Kievan Rus, but it is often overlooked that Scandinavian warriors intermingled with the local Slavs and that major portions of Rus expeditions into the Black Sea consisted of ethnic Slavs (and possibly also Finno-Ugric peoples). Nevertheless, Rus raids are commonly remembered for their 'Viking' and 'Scandinavian' contribution. Could the east Germanic peoples of East-Central Europe such as the Goths and Vandals represent a loose conglomeration of Germanic peoples who had assimilated indigenous groups of various ethnic, linguistic, and cultural affiliations? Barbarian armies during the migration period mostly consisted of smaller groups of armed warriors (possibly 15,000-30,000 armed men) along with their wives and children. These migratory groups need not have represented the plurality of the populations that inhabited the lands from which they migrated from. Could the migratory groups be representative of political elites with their group of core followers, instead of whole ethnic populations? Indeed this could explain why agriculture and settlement prevailed in Central Europe throughout the migration period in spite of the Germanic migrations. Rather than representing the whole scale movement of entire populations, the migration period may represent a period of rapid political-social-cultural collapse which saw central power structures uproot themselves and relocate. The collapse of centralized tribal structures in East-Central Europe between 350-500 AD may have created a vacuum that allowed for the ascension of new cultural, social, political, and linguistic communities. The ascension of these new communities may have been facilitated by the migration of new elites and populations, but was also helped by the absorption and acculturation of indigenous peoples who did not leave their lands during the migration period. To me, this is an interesting approach to explaining the rapid ascension of Slavic culture across East-Central Europe between the 5th and 7th centuries AD. How could such a wide swathe of land (Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, and Eastern Germany) be thoroughly dominated by Slavic speakers if such a process did not take place? So, going back to the Goths (and Vandals). Is it not possible that while they were products of a Germanic migration/culture, they also mixed with peoples of various ethnic origins, such as early Balts, proto-Slavs, Sarmatians, Dacians, and even remnants of Celts that had been absorbed by the Nordic expansion? Of course, we can't know for sure, but these are interesting theories to dwell upon. Cheers and best luck to you!

@user-ri1ti6go7s

10 ай бұрын

Very good thoughts and information

@olgaroche2929

7 ай бұрын

Yes interesting your thoughts! The origin of Slavic people/ languages is very fascinating because there is not much antiquity historians information we can find and yet they are so many and the language is so spread how they been ignored in antiquity! They become more known as migratory populations and recognize to be so numerous at migratory time! As I know Slavic languages/peoples are not the same as Finno_ Ungric languages/peoples. In older forms of languages the word for language is the same for peoples, in old language : language means also people ! That makes sense for Germanic/Getae languages. It is confusing why antiquity historians use to call Getae Goths See Jordanes Getica 551 AD….

This Theoderic was a “go getica”

It’s fun to learn about Goths more given that through genealogical research I’ve found my direct male line comes from a Visigoth Iberian nobleman, and confirming through genetic testing that my Y-Chromosome haplogroup matches some Visigoth Nobility archaeological findings.

@jdheryos4910

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/hnuZpNiGorOscZs.html

@kevincastillomorales4858

2 жыл бұрын

Great noble blood

@tohe0000

2 жыл бұрын

That is really cool

@panismith1544

2 жыл бұрын

So does my blood lines do Visigoths blood that is.

@mihaiilie8808

6 ай бұрын

I am from Buzau Romania, the capital of the visigoths( Pietroasele). We didn't tested the DNA of the visigoths here because there's no interest in them. But I can tell you straight that the visigoths are dacian and not germanic. Alaric was buried under a river like a dacian.

During the late medieval period a Swedish dethroned king hibernates for a long time on Gotland as a kind of pirate. Maybe there was a very small core of Gothic pirates leaving Gotland and recruiting on the LONG way to Rome becomming THE GOTHS. Good clip. Thanks!

@TheFallofRome

2 жыл бұрын

You’re welcome! Probably what happens, as far as the recent work argues, is that a portion of the people that become “the goths” moved from what is today southern Sweden, certainly the language came from the area. But people joined and left that group over time, so by the time the goths show up in Roman sources, any sort of migration was well over and they had lived to the north of the Roman Empire for about a century or more

@alexandrutomescu4146

2 ай бұрын

Maybe!!!!

Well done my man!

@TheFallofRome

4 жыл бұрын

The peoples elbow your profile name wouldn’t happen to reference the song by Attack! Attack! would it?

@theOni877

4 жыл бұрын

The Historian's Craft ah no sorry just used to like pro wrestling and thought the rock was awesome lol

Getae and the Dacians were the same people. Emperor Caracalla killed his brother, Geta and pronounced 'damnatio memoriæ of Geta', ordering his name to be erased from everywhere and not to be used by anyone. Then the Getae disappeared and the Goths appeared on the shores of the Black Sea. 'Getae illi qui et nunc Gothi' wrote Paulus Orosius at the beginning of the fifth century.

Wasn't it Cassius Dio who wrote the history for the Amals? Then Jordanes retold it from memory in the Getica?

When did the Swedish areas of Gothenburg and Gotland get their names?

My family is Dutch from Nederland and we descend from The Goths and still use their namesake in our family names, especially before Surnames.

@c4call

4 жыл бұрын

My family is from Götaland in Southwestern Sweden. Land of the Goths. It's only called "sweden" due to political machinations that led ultimately to the domination of the svea, from svealand, to the northeast of Götaland. The Svea, Goths, and Gutes (from the island Götland) make up the 3 major ethnic components of modern Sweden. As much as historians must maintain a façade of intellectual skepticism, the ancient tribes of europe have, to this day, a strong and quite clear genetic and phenotypic legacy. Not everyone who lives in a region can rightfully say they share ancestry with most in that region. Not are Sweden are Swedish. Many are gothic (descendants of the Geats... the tribe from which Beowulf was said to hail from)

@andromeda_8889

3 жыл бұрын

thats very interesting,can you tell some of this names that remain ?

@bigfel3240

3 жыл бұрын

Andromeda _888 Theodorus, Dirk, Derk(s), Derck(s). And not in my family in Holland but the Name Derrick is from Theoderic as well.

@bigfel3240

3 жыл бұрын

Andromeda _888 It’s not just name sake but my Family come from an Island in The Netherlands that sank and was reclaimed and is now part of the land. But we’ve always kept by water and Gotland is not to far and Goths was pronounced Gots and Gott is the German word for God, so they were The Gods.

@bigfel3240

3 жыл бұрын

Andromeda _888 Like their name was I’m not saying they were really Gods, lol.

Goths towns and villages in Poland have names such as Radogoszcz, Małogoszcz, Bydgoszcz, Goszcz, Skorogoszcz etc. Basically goszcz in ancient Slavic/Polish is today pronounced as gość which means guest or goszcz as gościniec which means tavern, so that’s their name.

You've talked about the migration version, yet didn't elaborate on the detail of the getic origin version. Considering what you've mentioned about the pretext for conquering Rome, there is probably not much you can say about an entirely different side to the story. However, a good vid.

@augustiniumihaila4466

3 жыл бұрын

And also forgot "damnatio memoriae" casted by Julian Apostate and Pope Leon on the name of "Dacian" and "Get" . And suddenly, all roman records regarding Dacia started to record "gots" . Also , is known that daco-getian living areal and cultural influence was up to Baltic in north and in east perhaps over Don and is also known that romans occupied less than 15 % of dacian teritory. But , is a hot subject and needs to be careful researched, as results can be amazing and can re-write all west-european history.

@corneliusteslaru9450

3 жыл бұрын

@@augustiniumihaila4466 Well, there are major implications: the last thing they want is for Romanians to realize who they really are. However, the Vatican's spokesman already confirmed that Latin descended from the proto-Romanian language and not vice versa. They will not rewrite the history- all academia is run by Jesuits. And since they consider themselves to receive the direct inheritance of the throne of the Roman Empire, it is important to keep it always victorious.

@augustiniumihaila4466

3 жыл бұрын

@@corneliusteslaru9450 For a real history of the white race (pls. anyone who read don't interpret as racism) is absolutly necesary to study aryan ethnogenesis that took place betwen Carpathian Arch and North Pontic Shore before Black Sea Deluge. That means paleolitic period from the end of Wurm microglaciation - around18k y bc and early metalcrafting period up to 7k-6,8k y. bc , as Black Sea Deluge is dated. This event gave birth to large scale people migration, cultural dispersion and ofc, the myth of Deluge. This event was the turning point for human history. And I dare to say that even the "Garden of Eden" should be searched on the drowned shores of Pontic Lake, not somewere in a desertic Mesopotamia, in a place where civilisation appeared thousands of years later..

@thegreatestfallout1794

Жыл бұрын

@@augustiniumihaila4466 I realize I'm years late, but what do you mean by "history of the white race"? Do you mean Caucasians of Europe?

@augustiniumihaila4466

Жыл бұрын

@@thegreatestfallout1794 An ussual name for white race. Yes. Again, is not about racism, is about specificities. I will never claim that white race is in any circumstance a superior or a better race as genetic potential. All humans are equal.

young man I hope to see you on The Great Courses one day

So the Goths are essentially Rome’s Taliban. Will the parallels never cease?

the Gots are Getian people(tracian)

@CarvedStones

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe assimilated Thracian groups but they are tested to be of northern and Central European origin. It’s more likely that there were migrants of southern Sweden that swept into Central Europe and intermingled with the thracians there mixing the cultures together.

I only now noticed that you have powerful chompers.

As to long lists of mythical kings there is the Swedish kinglist. In 1156 a Christian king Eric came to the throne. He was canonized as a martyr because he was killed while leaving church in Uppsala. He is listed as Erik IX although he had no predecessors. After the short reign of Magnus II Eric IX was succeeded by Karl VII, although there were no predecessors named Karl. The current monarch Carl XVI Gustaf would only be Carl VIII if not for this mythical renumbering.

It is more likely given the lack of similarity in Visigoths and Ostrogoths that they came from different groups. One probably migrated from Scandinavia, while the other was an intermingling of East Germanic peoples, probably tribes related to the Vandals. Both people intermingled and shared the Goth name as well as an East Germanic Tongue, but after that they diverged intermingling more in language and identity than they did in genetics, which in turn lead to their differences that were noted by Roman sources. Since Ostrogoths and Crimean Goths appear most closely related and both were able to remain active beyond the Danube (suggesting they probably lived in that region for a longer period of time), it i more likely that the Ostrogoths are more closer related to the Vandal and Burgundians as a true East Germanic People, while the Visigoths probably were East Germanized Scandinavians.

@AndrewTheFrank

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like a well made theory. Might make sense that two neighboring cultures might migrate towards each other to form a kind of newish culture as an in-between and potentially form a coherent political identity. And so if one, if not directly descended from the Goths, having lived next to such descendants for long enough might identify themselves as such as well. And thus when they finally do split they both retain the Gothic identity. I like it.

@sagittariusa7662

Жыл бұрын

@@AndrewTheFrank Pepin be proud.

you are my favorite person on the entire earth

Oswald Spengler pointed out that poor Romans who did well and set up great families in Roman society, would immediately start to create a glorious history of their families.

I've read many comments and started to be amused regarding human fantasy .... I have a question for norse-fans .... Which was the name of the first law-giver for scandinavian people? I've heard somethig from someone named Carolus Lundius that wrote something for a king ? (no hard-feelings pls, try to smile)

@galenbjorn443

3 жыл бұрын

don't know what you are even trying to say, ill just know that the goth burn down Rome :)

@augustiniumihaila4466

3 жыл бұрын

@@galenbjorn443 Right ! And now search which people started to be named "goths" , after Carracala and later Pope Liberius and Iulian Apostate casted their damnatio memoriae.

I havet even wached the full video yet. But Im from Sweden, the southern part of Sweden are gothia. We have Gotland, Göteborg, Götaland etc, history and mythology way back. Even "Skåne" back in the day, the parts of Sweden - Skåne, Halland, Småland and Blekinge and more was called Gothia.

@AndreasErikssonSoulFuse

3 жыл бұрын

Hmm ok, the people of gothland had origin from Scandza.. wich has been proven to be what is called today as Skåne

@AndreasErikssonSoulFuse

3 жыл бұрын

Im sad that the history of gothia has been more or less destroyed by religions , political interests, mainstream media , etc. Of some weird reason, the "vikings" became the "rockstars "of that era, thou the goths where very active at that time and made eyebrow rising achievements....

what do you think of the idea of the gutones and goths being related?

14:40 - "I'm not ethnically English" - actually, you might be. I'm American, but ethically, my grandparents came from Sweden (West Gotland). ;)

What do you think about the potential connection between goths and geats ?

@TheFallofRome

4 жыл бұрын

Alpharius I find the idea interesting, but I don’t really have an opinion because I don’t know too much about it. Dr Jackson Crawford would actually be the person to ask about that. Are you familiar with his channel ?

@alpharius8264

4 жыл бұрын

No im not , but thank you for the recomandation , I mean since we are talking about two germanic tribes it is possible that they share the same etymology without having a direct connection . Ethnogenese is such a complex topic I miss the time when I believed that the goths migrated from Skandinavia all the way to italy Imean on some way they did ,but its not clear when gothic identety started to develope

@g-rexsaurus794

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheFallofRome I think Goths are to be understood as a relatively far removed Germanic linguistic community, today I think linguistics today divide Germanic in North-West Germanic(all varieties alive today) and East Germanic, this means Gothic must have separated quite early, probaly early-middle iron age roughly. The Gothic migration to the Black Sea probably was augmented by some local North-West Germanic communities(evidenced by potential Scandinavian influence in the early Wielbark period) but largely Gothic is still quite divergent, insofar as Germanic varieties could be given the chronology.

@wolfieblack32

3 жыл бұрын

@@alpharius8264 This theory was claimed because goths lived in the lands of later geats. I don't think there is no an ethnic connection between them. Geats were ancient balkanian tribes

@alpharius8264

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolfieblack32 Im not talking aout the (most likely) thracian getae Im talking about the north germanic tribe, who lived in present day south sweden en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geats

Volker Bierbrauer: the Santana de Mures/Cernjachov culture is gothic; some of its characteristics - particulary brooch and ceramic types, a tendency not to place weapons in graves - are similar of the Wielbrak culture.

yea, many people changed language and culture in time - especially nomadic people. for example bulgars were originally turkic people but they became slavic as they settled and mixed with local people

There is a Runestone in ÖstraGötakand (ostrogothia) it talks about Theoderic the great :) its Also some weeds in that region that only grows in THE medeteranian sea "klimbim and vejde" it dosent grow normalt there so its imported, i beleive because of the name of The region and the Runestone that they originated frolm Götaland :) i live in Västra Götaland and it means western goths 😂

@Latro84

2 жыл бұрын

Du är helt ute och cyklar kompis ..

@mihaiilie8808

6 ай бұрын

Iordanes says the Gotland, Gotsi, Gutones and all related, are the dacian getae. Thus not germanic but thracian. That's why you had Sweden, Denmark and Finland named Dacia in official documents. And the first germanic writer and inventor of the runes is a Bulgarian named Ulfillas.

Have you consider that the goths is the same think as the gets, or getae, or the Dacians that were living in that region?

@TheFallofRome

Жыл бұрын

They’re not, although this isn’t to say that maybe some small group of them were absorbed. Guy Halsall is the person you want to look into for this particular topic

Quicktake; The goths are the descendants of the Vanir, which is also suspected to originate in the southern baltic region.

@alexandrutomescu4146

2 ай бұрын

South Baltic region is Dacia(Getia).

I don't understand the reason for the scepticism

Happy International Goth Day!!!

Question: What did the Visigoths and Ostrogoths called “themselves”?? 🤔

@godworden2768

4 жыл бұрын

They assume that is what they called themselves, but others called them the Thervingi and Gruethungi

@Nortrix87

3 жыл бұрын

Røk Runestone: "... I say this second, who nine generations ago lost his life with the Hreidgoths; and died with them for his guilt. Theodoric the bold, chief of sea-warriors, ruled over the shores of the Hreiðsea. Now he sits armed on his Goth(ic horse), his shield strapped, the prince of the Mærings.... " Possible Hreidgoths.

@scintillam_dei

3 жыл бұрын

@@Nortrix87 Cool.

There is also a written down saga from gothland called the exodus tale. look it up and the smokestone

fun fact: Noah Webster Jr. had an American form of English created to define us culturally from England.

They cane from Batcave of the late 70s 😊

All of this history will be solved when the confusion between goths and Getae will be sorted out. The Getae was also known as Thracians and they were living from Greece to Baltic sea. As Herodotus said they were many tribes but speaking the same language and he also said that they were the most numerous people after the Indians. The romans called them Dacians and they was speaking a similar language as the romans as can be seen on the "pictures" of the Trajan Column in Rome they didn't need translators. The romans conquered a quarter of the Dacians territory but the Getae tribes were more than the Dacians territory, including the Scythian which Ovidiu, the roman poet exiled in Tomis, in Scythia minor, spoke about as speaking intelligible language for a Latin language speaker. The biggest fights the roman empire had in the second century were with the free Dacians/Getae tribes. The romans even had part of them army established by the Dacians fighters and there are proves of them even in Britain. Some of them, Getae, were even roman emperors in the next centuries. The fact that in today romanian language still exist in territories were the romans never stepped but even had to fight with them is the prove of the large are were they existed and still exist, collaborated with the Herodotus stories, make a non sense to suppose that the Goths came from north to the Danube River to fight with the romans and they left as they came. The Goths were probably north Thracians/Getae tribes, living in today Poland before any slavic expansion and speaking a language close to both, the north germanic and the south latin. We can compare them with the Celtic people living in the central Europe from Pannonia to the today France and speaking a language which have more Latin words and more German structure. To speak about the today romanian territories as above a no-one land is the biggest shame for the European old culture of the Thracians. Check this opinion, someone who has access to the Vatican libraries. kzread.info/dash/bejne/e3eprcGyj8uwnZc.htmlsi=Wc4IwZEoAGa3Juhh

Can you do the gepid

What is the difference from Visigoth and goths? How did Their language become Spanish?

@TheFallofRome

2 жыл бұрын

The visigoths emerge from the goths once the goths had migrated into the Roman Empire. Their language became Spanish once the vidigoths took over Iberia and gothic, Latin, and Arabic began to blend

@josel.martinez8649

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheFallofRome thank you for the reply. Very helpful. I’m doing some research on “Hispani”

@CarvedStones

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheFallofRome Arabic only makes up like 8-10% of the Spanish vocabulary, not enough to create an amalgamation of it. Most of the Spanish influence is latin and Ancient Greek with the others being celtic, gothic, French, basque, etc.

Funny idea that ethnogenesis can be mostly due to influence by a neighbouring people / power. Well I'm Swiss so I can't really deny this considering the Viennese congresse in 1815 🤣

For some Gothic artifacts, see "Pietroasele Treasure", "Apahida necropolis"

@augustiniumihaila4466

3 жыл бұрын

gotic? why not getic ! "Hen nd chicken" have not a trademark of "GoticMade" on them. If someone knows , pls tell if in north europe-scandinavian zone were gold mines with a tradition of goldcrafting that were in function let's say 100 bc to 200 ac, becaose it is needed some tradition and experience to refine such elaborate pieces ...... But that tradition exists in Dacia!!!

@cristianmare1555

3 жыл бұрын

The culture of the treasure of Pietroasa is the thracian culture. The vessel of the treasure of Pietroasa has the orfic ritual wich is the thracian ritual, see the orfic ritual of the thracians from the British Museum. In the middle of the vessel from the treasure of Pietroasa is a women wich has plaited hair around the had like of the dacian womens from Trajan column

@augustiniumihaila4466

3 жыл бұрын

@@cristianmare1555 ... and many more style evidences that prove that, beside the fact that gold was first exploited in thracian lived zones....

@cristianmare1555

3 жыл бұрын

@@augustiniumihaila4466 Also the runes were used by the thracians also because the runes were found also in Italy in old inscriptions from the ancient time used by raetians, and other old populatian from Italy wich were etruscians, thracians and not germans

@cristianmare1555

3 жыл бұрын

@@augustiniumihaila4466 And the tablets of Tartaria in Romania contains also runes and those wich were called seckely are romanians because we know from old historyans that the seckely used the romanian letters and those tablets are also with runes like the man with an horse wich is the goth rune also named ecua wich is the romanian word ecua, equa also wich means horses

You seem te speak only of archeological finds, linguistic similairities and descriptions by the Romans but in the comments I see that lots of people have done some research on (mostly) their owen DNA or refer to scientific research on DNA, especially haplo groups. Why didn't you mention any genealogical research?

What is your ancestry? You look super similar to me.

@samueljaworski5737

Жыл бұрын

I even have a mole on the right side of my chin

From the opposing side to the entrance of a classroom, more to the back, but no so much.

I suppose that if there's anything to the story about the Heruli, that happens at the same time.

Jordanes' en passant description of Britain and its climate is a gem. What it had to do with the Goths I'm not sure.

@TheFallofRome

3 жыл бұрын

Rex Whitehead well that’s the whole issue of using him as a source...Goths are written into everything in his book to give them a history worthy of support by Roman aristocrats once they took over Italy...so it’s tough to tease out myth from reality in some cases here

there are enough evidence to suggest that the Gutish people of gotland migrated into Geatland (götaland) and then moved south into europe. both literally and archeological evidence. one thing i suggest you do is to read gutalansagan or look at the gothic script.

@coffekihlberg

3 жыл бұрын

oh, and its Gutnish, not guntish :)

While all of the caveats are true, the simple explanation is still the most likely one. Genetic archeology can help here. So far it indicates that it’s typically indeed people that migrate and not just artificial, let alone languages. How many migrated can be estimated once enough Gothic DNA has been sampled. Similarly important is of course the fact that culture evolves. Even if the Goths were largely a population of migrants from Sweden, their culture in the 4th century would have been very different compared to earlier centuries. So either way, you could easily argue that migration or not, the Goths as a people only started once they settled around the Black Sea. At the same time, their roots may well lie in Sweden. Just like your example of you speaking English, yet identifying as American. America has a similar story as the Goths had, called the Mayflower and all that.

@AndrewTheFrank

Жыл бұрын

Agreed and the example he used of being American but speaking English being bad because it doesn't say he is English but it does point to his culture (and thus a lot of the genetics, especially at its founding) coming from England. That it started as an English Colony and after winning independents has had some kind of working diplomatic relationship with England as well as all other English speaking countries seeing as there is a shared ancestry and common culture. And so his example, if taking out towards its fullest, points back to tying the Goths in Romania and Ukraine to its origin in Sweden where there is a strong linguistic tie. Languages generally don't migrate via any method other than conquest or migration.

The gothic culture of the treasure of Pietroasa wich belongs to the goths is tracian culture and not from Sweden. The gothic treasure of Pietroasa is thracian culture because the vessel of the treasure of Pietroasa has figures with naked man wich is present in the orfic ritual wich is present at the thracians, see the thracian sarcofagus from British Museum with naked man or the sarcofagus from Pireu having the reprezentation of thracian ritual with naked man. Also the vessel of the treasure of Pietroasa has in the middle the representation of an women wich has plaited hair around the had like of the dacian womens from the Traian column

@cristianmare1555

3 жыл бұрын

The sarmation(taifalic) shield has the dragon without legs and wings as symbol wich is the same symbol with of the dacians from the Traian column and the sarmations belong to the gothic culture Sântana de Mureș. Also the symbol of the goths that conquered Rome in 408 AD, 410 AD is the vulture wich is the symbol of the dacians, see the getho dacians coins from Sarmisegetusa named cosons. Ieronim said that the getae were also named sauromats wich is matching with sarmations and indeed in the British Museum is one representation with an thracian horseman wich is dressed in the same wearings like of the sarmations from the Traian column having iron plates on him so beeing an catrafactary

@cristianmare1555

3 жыл бұрын

So this are the proofs that the goths that conquered Rome are the thracians wich lived always in Romania

@cristianmare1555

3 жыл бұрын

The goths from Sweden were only the goths from Crimeea wich are different from the goths that conquered Rome as it is well knowed by now

@cristianmare1555

3 жыл бұрын

Here is the vessel from the treasure of Pietroasa with the orfic thracian ritual with naked man www.google.com/search?q=Patera+PIEtroasa+Protoromana&rlz=1C1GCEA_enRO904RO904&sxsrf=ALeKk02tG-mkAekZNe1ijR5KpKpCbEJP0g:1604250947976&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=8W8223mr9PhL5M%252CNrUxFC03Ua56OM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSwkoSPaJgI7gwQy_15GCTevzzB-g&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi0wom_7OHsAhVQr4sKHe_-BeYQ9QF6BAgMEAw#imgrc=8W8223mr9PhL5M Here is the sarcofagus with the thracian orfic ritual with thracians naked man from the British Museum www.google.com/search?q=Sarcophagus+British+Museum+Thracians+&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwickdTa5-HsAhXKyKQKHQQzDIYQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=Sarcophagus+British+Museum+Thracians+&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECAAQHjoGCAAQBRAeUK9CWJ1iYLVzaABwAHgAgAHNDIgBmCqSAQk1LTUuMS4wLjGYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=P-ieX9z1JsqRkwWE5rCwCA&bih=657&biw=1366&rlz=1C1GCEA_enRO904RO904#imgrc=gPwIvYBaaclg0M

@cristianmare1555

3 жыл бұрын

Here are the images with the women with plaited hair around the had from the treasure of Pietroasa ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fi%C8%99ier:Tezaur_MNIR_IMG_7331_(crop).jpg and ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fi%C8%99ier:Statueta_din_centrul_paterei_de_la_Pietroasa.jpg Here is the image with the dacian women with the plaited hair from the Traian column www.enciclopedia-dacica.ro/imagini-site/femeile_06.jpg

Backtrack enough and you may discover that there is still a region in southern Sweden called Gotland. That name is not an accident.

scythians does look like europeans main thing they european nomads . scythians irani and pakistan afganistan and north indians. scythians have jat clans .

They came from hot topic.

New DNA study shows they came from southern Sweden into Poland accross the Baltic

@mihaiilie8808

6 ай бұрын

Goth is not a race or a nationality but apartenence to a religion. Christian arianism. A Bulgarian named Ulfillas wrote their Bible using a Latin language and Bulgarian letters. Iordanes say the goths come from Dacia. Sweden, Denmark and Finland were named Dacia in official documents 😂. The dacians destroyed Rome in 410 not germanics. Dacians are thracians ethnicity.

Wish this guy was around in the time of the renaissance and explaine to europe that they are not heavlingly being just because they don't look burnt

Probably southern Illinois or Indiana

I like how you separate language from identity.

@viktornedkov9646

3 жыл бұрын

You mean when I see an African man speaking French, should I count him as French? :D sick mentality

balanced. good job

I think a better question is where they went?

Didn't the word "Goth" essentially mean "soldier"? I remember reading on Wickham's Framing the Middle Ages, I believe he mentioned that when talking about the Ostrogothic Kingdom of Italy.

@TheFallofRome

4 жыл бұрын

I don’t know if it directly means “soldier”, but to an extent being a “goth” after they move into the empire and being a “soldier” in the empire’s service became very closely linked because part of the treaties made between the gothic peoples and the Roman government was that they would serve as a fighting force

@matheus.bueno47

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheFallofRome I think Wickham's point was that the group of Ostrogoths that came to Italy was just an army, so the migration, if it happened at all, came later. Pretty much if you were a Goth living in Italy, you were just a soldier of Theoderic, a splinter group of the military elite ruling de facto romans.

@c4call

4 жыл бұрын

Even so, if "goth" developed an association with soldiery, the word itself had an origin in southern Sweden, or "Götaland". I mean, Götaland is even today divided into Västra-Götaland and Ostra-Götaland lol. Ahem... Visigoth and Ostragoth? I know, I know, it's not that the visigoths came from Västra-Götaland. But rather, my point is, while "vastra" and "ostra" may originate from Latin language, "Götaland" does not.

@scintillam_dei

3 жыл бұрын

@@c4call Spain uses a lisp for the most part because the Gothic language did. Latin America lacks the lisp because most who came from Spain came from the south where Germanics were less prevalent and their languages less influential in the vulgar Latin. I'm glad I came up with this theory myself, though surely others did independently. I wouldn't bet my life on it but it seems legit, and has no decent competition. Imitating a king with a lisp is nonsense. That would just insult him.

@andreaslindell

10 ай бұрын

Goth comes from proto-german "geuta" which means "to pour". It has nothing to do with soldiers :P

So like basically a viking, kinda like a barbarian seafaring wandering warrior dude? Got ya or Gothya?

The goths originate from the geats in geto-dacian. Dromichaete. Visigoths were the first, Ostrogoths are Atillas conquered dacians. Dacians destroyed the Roman empire in 410. Goth is also not a nationality but the apartenence to a religious cult, Christian arianism, heretic. The first germanic writer, Ulfillas is a Bulgarian. His Bible is written in a Latin language with Bulgarian letters. Visigoths then crestinated the germanics like bulgarians did with the slavs.

In this regard, check what Hieronymus say about the ancestors of gothic people, or later on, Leibniz in Collectanea Etimologica, or Carlo Troya or Nicolo Zeno (history is rich in such references). Also one should ask himself why the earliest history of goths is not called gothica but getica. It is also relevant the context from the region, the dacian kingdom and the great war of 101ad-106ad which could be a catalyst of migration and lifestyle change into nomadic. Also it is relevant the Damnation Memoriae of Geta, by Caracalla. Consequently one can argue that the gets/dacians (tribes) are the ancestors of goths.

@TheOlgaSasha

2 жыл бұрын

Getes and GOTHS (Gutons) are absolutely different people. Ancient authors often were mistaken in names and geography. Archaeologically it is well detected, that Goths came to Poland (Oksywie culture), moved along the Vistula and the West Bug rivers (Wielbark culture) and later invaded to present-day Ukraine, Moldova and south-east Romania (Cherniakhov culture). Gothic sites and settlements (typically Germanic) are found even in North Ukraine where Geto-Dacian tribes never inhabited (for example, Cherniakhov settlement near Kiev, which gave the name to Cherniakhov culture of 2-4 centuries AD).

@johnmcclane1933

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheOlgaSasha I dont think it is smart to dismiss all ancient authors saying that they mistaken names; and the precedents, in the field of history, show us that such an approach is most of the times, wrong; as they were closer to the historical truth and they were not influenced by the nationalistic sentiment. Also, it is relevant that some have changed the name (gets/goths) only in the title of the book but not in its content (Claudius Claudianus - De Bello Gothico). Nonetheless it seems that the goths came to now day Poland from 1st century AD and there is no historical mention of the goths prior to this.

@Dafterthought

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheOlgaSasha in fact your myths state that Odin lost one eye because he wanted wisdom water from “the old man’s well” and drank “all the “poetry”from the old man’s daughter” afterwards ran away and when followed by the old man “also transformed in a bird (Indo-European symbols of God already, hence over time)” he sh** on the old man (more elegantly put he forgot to say “thanks for the knowledge I took from you in srry I’m blind from my vanity and I can’t see”). “The Thracian people are the most numerous after the Indus people” - Herodot. Also the Daco Getae (a Thracian branch with Scythian rulers) were tall blond reddish hair and with blue green eyes. And so on and so on…. Still may that truth be revealed in the best way possible for everyone involved:).

Hello!! 🎶

Its probably like the general PIE culture in general. Some migration, some invasion, some just general influence. Its not an all or nothing proposition. Some Goths moved from Gotland some became influenced by the Goths etc. Linguistically speaking Gotland does sound an awful lot like Gothland much like Teodoro = Theodore

I always assumed they were from the caucasus/steppe regions and migrated due to the huns, interesting

@g-rexsaurus794

4 жыл бұрын

The question is how did they get to the Steppe, also I don't think Goths went past the Don and few even really reached it, going only a bit beyond the Dnieper.

@godworden2768

4 жыл бұрын

G-Rex Saurus From Israel/Samaria to Media then up into The Steppe just like The Scythians, Samaritans etc...

@scintillam_dei

3 жыл бұрын

@@godworden2768 Abraham was from Ur. Jews are Sumerians, dark not Aryans. I'm an Aryan saying this. Funnily enough, my sister is called Ariana.

I have a question to The Historian Craft 8:05 ... so are you ''ethnically *merican" ?

@TheFallofRome

3 жыл бұрын

Eh I misspoke there. My point was that I speak English, but I’m not English. My identity is American. My grandparents are from Germany, but now consider themselves American. My father is first generation German-American, and considers that his main identity. But I am strictly American. So identity can change rapidly. Thus we can’t just draw lines on a map and be like “Goths are from *insert location here*”. There’s more to it than that

@melanphilia

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheFallofRome hey there ... I just tried to be little bit of a smartass 😀 I do get your point . Am also an example, I do speak English but I'm not and English person either

It all started with Bauhaus...

I read many scientific works on the Goths. In fact it is difficult to definite their language and culture during different time of its migration. Wielbark arch.culture was mix of Scandinavian migrants with local Oksywie and Przeworsk population. East Germans of Przeworsk culture (Vandals, Burgunds, Lugies, Gepids and others) had cremation tradition while new migrants from Scandza had mostly inhumation. But the influence and admixture of Przeworsk population was so great that new settlers basically changed inhumation to cremation. But Przeworsk culture was not monoethnic. Przeworsk culture was mix of dominated Germanic tribes (or "tribes between Germanics and Celts" as some ancient sources wrote) with former population of Pommeranian culture (west Balts mixed with unknown to science Lusatian arch.culture population: pre-Germanic or proto-Illyrian or some assimilated Indo-Eur. group) under strong Celtic influence. Only in Western Ukraine (Volhynia) and Eastern Poland (Masłomęcz group ) the archaïc tradition of typically Scandinavic inhumation was preserved paralelly with cremation. Both types of funeral custom prove that Goths were rather tribal union which consisted of Est Germanic elements (some groups of Gepids and Vandals), Scandinavic elements (Guttones ot just Goths who obviously had leading positions in Gothic tribal union) and remains of Pommeranian groups from eastern part of Przeworsk group (Balts or proto-Slavic groups). Further movement of Goths to south led to appearence of Goths in the Dniester basin. The upper Dniester was settled by Zubra (also called Volhyno-Podolian) arch.culture (this culture formed as a mix of proto-Slavs from late Zarubitsy culture with Daco-Thracian tribes (mostly Costoboci) and late Przeworsk population). The archeological sites on the Zbruch and other left links of the Dniester show that Wielbark population settled near the settlements of Zubra cult.people. There was a complicated process of ethnic assimilation in the upper Dniester basin. Later Goths continued to move to south to the lower Dniester and the lower Danube where Goths conquered local Geto-Dacian (also Thracian) tribes. Thus first migration wave led to Gothic expansion and assimilation of different ethnic groups between the Prut, the Dniester and the lower Danube rivers. The second wave of Gothic wave was in almost 50-70 years. Those groups moved through the basin of the Southern Bug (Pivdenny Buh) river to the nothern coast of Black Sea. The second wave was more powerful and cruell. As a result of their movement the remains of late Zarubintsy population (Antes in ancient sources which are considered to be one of proto-Slavic groups) in the basin of the Southern Bug were conquered and migrated with Goths to the lower Dnieper river. That movement was bloody because of cruell battles against Sarmatians (mostly Alans and Roxoalanes) and Scythians in the steppe zone of northern coast of Black Sea. As a result, Goths spread on the great territory (modern Ukraine, Moldova and south-east Romania). Goths had war democracy and established a quasi-state called Oium (Aujom) in different ancient sources. The areal of Oium is the areal of Cherniakhov arch.culture. That culture was typical "Roman province influnce" culture with high level of material sites. As all scientists admit, Goths borrowed a lot of sites from East Roman empire: weapons, coins, ceparation of ruling class etc.. But the Roman influence also led to ethnic union of Goths with not Germanic groups within Cherniakhov culture: Geto-Dacians in the west, proto-Slavs in the north and north-west, Sarmatians in center and late Scythians in the south. Archeologically pure Germanic elements in polyethnic Cherniakhov culture ("long dwellings", poultry bones on bural place etc.) are mostly concentrated in 2 places: modern Moldova and the lower Danube (Visigoths) and right bank of the lower Dnieper river (from modern Dnipro to Kherson cities in Ukraine) (Ostrogoths). But clear Gothic elements are also found the banks of Sula, Psel and Vorskla in Eastern Ukraine up to the Desna and Seim rivers in Northern Ukraine. That means that some small groups of Gothic tribes migrated to north to areal of Kiev arch. culture (mix of Balts with early Slavs) as well as population of Kiev culture migrated to more developed Cherniakhov culture. But the most impotrant influence for Goths within Cherniakhov culture was from Sarmatians - Alans, Roxolanes, Amazones etc. Goths borrowed many war tactics from Sarmatians. When Huns came Gothes and Sarmatians fighted on one side. Even on the cemetries of Cherniakhov culture there are Gothic tombs with cremation near Sarmatian tumili with inhumation (north head-oriented and near tombs of early Slavic cremation (west oriented tombs of Antes). After Hunnic turkic invasion Antes decided to avoid Gothic domination and crossed to the side of Huns. After Huns were defeated on the Cathalanian plains, early Slavs (Antes of Penkivka archeological culture) became a new force in the region. Penkivka arch.culture continued all the traditions of Cherniakhov culture till 8 century AD (it was one of the first Slavic cultures but with strong admixture of remains of Sarmatians, Ostrogoths, Thracians and other elements left after migration of most of Goths to modern Italy and Spain). So Goths was a very comlicated ethnic group. It shows the way from Scandinavia to Black Sea region through assimilation, battles and cooperation with many other ethnic groups. But evidencies of Gothic language in Crimea till 18 century show that Gothic language preserved its Germanic ancestry with some Byzantian, Slavic and other influences.

@curiousteletabi2696

3 жыл бұрын

Do you think Goths were genetically and culturally closer to other Germanic groups?

@TheOlgaSasha

3 жыл бұрын

@@curiousteletabi2696 Yes, I do. Of course, Goths were not monoethnic Germanic tribes (they included not only Goths, Gepids, Heruls and other waves of migrants from Scandinavian and Jutland peninsula, but also a lot of Vandals). And that is proved in Wielbark culture (and partially in multiethnic Cherniakhiv culture) by archeology (pure Germanic sites: pottery, weapons, long dwellings, funeral customs common for east Germanic tribes and etc), craniology (dolichocefalia) etc. Here, in Ukraine, we clearly can identify Germanic arch.cultures of that period which differ very much from "forest" Balto-Slavic cultures, "specific" Geto-Dacian and other Thracian cultures or "nomadic" Scythian and Sarmatian cultures. But nothing is so easy. Goths mixed and united with a lot of not Germanic elements. But they preserved the Germanic ground of their culture, because Goths were a military elite in Cherniakhov culture after Sarmatians became weaker. Besides, many scientists admit that some ethnic groups not only were dominated by or suffered of Goths. For example, Slavic population became to encrease quickly within the Cherniakhov culture by migration from northern Kiev culture (first well identified Slavic culture). For instance, the Gothic word "hleibas" (bread) obviosly came from Slavic "khleb" (bread), while even modern Ukrainian words: khata (hut), kreyda (chalk), barva (farbe), tyn (ton), hvyla (wave) and many others came from Gothic (except those Germanic words, which came 500 years earlier ( before Goths) with Skirs and Bastarnes (mixed Celto-Germano-Venedic tribes of Zarubintsy archeological culture of 3 cent.BC -2 cent AD in Northern Ukraine and Southern Belarus). Both Zarubintsy and Cherniakhov cultures took a great role in history of Slavs, because they took part in separation and of Slavs from the only Baltic group and further ethnogeneration of Slavic ethnity (although Celto-Germanic and Balto-Slavic cultures are rather different). Slavs borrowed a lot from Sarmatians and Goths during Cherniakhov culture, especially in war raids and camping. That was a reason of Slavic burgeoning during Penkivka and Prague arch.cultures and further fast Slavic expansion to west to the Elbe basin and to the Danube and to the Balkans in 6 century AD. Of course, Goths left Ukraine not alone. As we know, Visigoths invaded modern Spain with Alans and other Sarmatian tribes, while early Slavs and Ostrogoths recognized the power of Huns (or, as Roman sources informed, Antes (early Slavs) rather united with Huns against Goths and Sarmatians).

@curiousteletabi2696

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheOlgaSasha Thanks for replying. I know it might sound irrelevant, but do you know any West Germanic tribe that setteled in a far land from Centeral/Northern Europe like Goths and Vandals did?

@civishyperboreum6853

3 жыл бұрын

Przeworsk culture was Proto Slavic.

@TheOlgaSasha

3 жыл бұрын

@@civishyperboreum6853 Maybe, but most of modern scholars admit, that Przeworsk culture was mixed. It included mostly east Germanic tribes of Vandals (typically Germanic bural tradition, intensionally damaged weapon in tombs etc.), but it also contains numerous typically Celtic sites. Only in eastern part of Przeworsk culture thsre are so-called Chernichen group of Przeworsk culture in Ukraine (mixed Germanic, proto-Slavic (Zarubintsy culture), late Sarmatic and some unknown ethnic groups) and Masłomęcz group of Przeworsk culture in Poland and Volhynia (mixed Germanic population from Przeworsk and Wielbark cultures, with some remains of former Pommeranian culture population). But these 2 grouos were rather substrate for further Slavic ethnogenezis. Nowadays most of scholars consider Zarubintsy arch. culture population and its further mixture and amalgation with east Baltic and other ethnic groups in modern Ukraine (including eastern Przeworsk population) and southern Belarus as the reason of appearence of proto-Slavs of Kiev arch.culture ("mother" of Kolochin, Penkivka and partially Prague-Korchak and other known Slavic cultures).

Why Gots are called Getae ? Many antique historians considered Gots Getae, but Getae are Geto-Daci!

@jonsnow7092

7 ай бұрын

Because that's the truth. However, modern historians like to distort the truth so that Germanic people can get acclaimed. There are no physical or historical proofs of a Scandinavic migration and the whole argument relies on a similarity of name, with a region that was named way later. This, while claiming pretty much all historians (as well as goths themselves) just made a confusion claiming to be Getae or originate from Getae people. Sure, Goths were very likely a coalition of various tribes and people, out of which, some were germanic, but most of them were very likely Getic tribes that actually lived in the region we actually know Goths first appeared.

@mihaiilie8808

6 ай бұрын

Iordanes himself says the goths are dacian. But it's not that we are the ancestors of swedes. Dacian visigoths just chrestinated the germanics with Ulfillas Bible. First germanic writer is a Bulgarian and the goth language is written with Bulgarian letters.

I don't yet know where they came from though I assume Poland or thereabout, but I have a theory as to why Spanish in Spain is typically with a lisp. The Visigoths entered Iberia from the north where the Germanic presence has always been stronger. The Gothic language used the lisp sound which carried over into Spanish of mostly the north and center of Iberia. Hispanics like me lack the lisp in our language (thank God) because most of the conquistadores and settlers were from the south where the Germanic presence (especially the Visigoth) was not so dominant as in the north and center, so the Spanish in the south was not as influenced by Gothic. Roderigo Díaz de Vivar AKA El Cid was a Goth apparently, and his name Rodrigo is a cognate of Roderick, a very Germanic name showing that Gothic did have some influence in the language, but not as much as Arabic. Another theory of mine is that Basque is the original Iberian language though now in its modern somewhat altered form. The people called Basques are indistinguishable from their neighbours racially speaking, because they are Celts who adopted the language of my ancestors, the original Iberians. I plan to learn Euskara and teach my daughter born this horrible year.

The Dacians were known as Geta (plural Getae) in Ancient Greek writings, and as Dacus (plural Daci) or Getae in Roman documents, but also as Dagae and Gaete as depicted on the late Roman map Tabula Peutingeriana. This Gets migrated to north. You can study ukrainian Carpatian mountains that have, les say romanian names. So there is a big posibility that Gets transformed into Gёts and after Gots=Goths. So how about this theory ? ) p.s. Some greeks called people from south and north of Danubius , Gets. And this was centurys BC

@mihaiilie8808

6 ай бұрын

Sweden, Denmark and Finland were named Dacia in official documents 😂. The visigoths( first goths) are the getae dacians. Iordanes says the Nordic Gotland, Gutones, getsi, all come from the dacian getae. We converted to Arian Christianity the germanics using Ulfillas bible( a Bulgarian from Moesia not a greek). The first writer of the germanic world and the inventor of the Gothic language and letters, is a bulgarian. And actually goth language is a Latin type language, non germanic and with Bulgarian letters. Suebi, the germanics were hunter gatherers. They didn't even plowed land to grow crops, really wild. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dauciones

Sorry to be nitpicky regarding this otherwise splendid lecture, but Swedes strictly don't exist until the unification of the Svear and Götar (Gauts) and some smaller tribes around the 11 century. In southern Scandinavia at that time, we simply don't know who were there, whether it was Svear, Goths truly, Gauts, or ... possibly Heruls. There were Proto-Germanic speaking tribes, but we simply cannot identify them securely.