In the early years of architecture schools we were taught a very particular way of drawing lines. We used “lead holders” back then and kept them needle sharp. When drawing a line you spin the pencil in your fingers as the line is drawn. This ensures that the point is work evenly and keeps the “line weight” (technical term for line width/darkness) even. A very sharp point is much better than rubbing your point to a chisel shape because a very sharp point, rotated in the fingers will draw the same weight regardless os the angle you hold it; whereas, a chisel point will vary if the angle of the pencil changes.

@campmodewithrussell

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed Justin, I was taught the same technique in drafting class 32 years ago. Now days there are mechanical pencils are made with gears inside so that every time you lift the pencil and put it down it turns the lead. I believe the graph gear 1000 he has here may be one. There is another one available I bought at an Office Depot but was upwards of $5-10.

@wilhelmtaylor9863

3 жыл бұрын

That was my first thought as well, learned in drafting classes grades 9-12 back in the '60s. It was called "twirling your pencil lead". Used it right up until CAD came out and I still have many of my old blue prints from my first job, all with uniformly sharp lines. You wanted to use a harder lead, say H4 or H6. Justin, J&R, you guys must be OLD. (Now, let's talk about Leroy lettering templates and erasing shields.)

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely! I'm glad someone brought this up. The only issue I have is that not many people know about that method because the average person doesn't have the equipment or even know it exists, and they want to be able to use the pencils that they have on hand. (Plus then there's the issue of quality stuff versus low quality stuff. Just seems like a can of worms that I shouldn't open!) For most folks that falls into the HB and #2 category. I figured even with a #2 pencil it's easier to teach people to hold their wrist still than to rotate a pencil. Then people will be rotating and flicking their wrists, dulling the point, and so on. With the chisel point, as long as you keep your hand in the same position, anyone can figure it out without specialized equipment because it's like using a knife. And in case they mess that up or it becomes dull, it can be reground to any angle again in seconds.

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

@J and R Garage I have seen those too! I just want one so I can see it work. (I'm a gearhead.) The GraphGear doesn't have that feature but I know there are several on the market that do. Pretty neat.

@justinjones9255

3 жыл бұрын

Ha, lettering templates and erasing shields! 😆 I was pretty good at using a small triangle riding on my drafting arm when lettering. Get the lead holder moving fast enough I can still hear the “tick, tick, tick” as it slapped the edge of the triangle. Was also a big fan of using a Rotring in pen set for formal lettering. Pain in the ass to clean though. Not old, just pushing 60. 🙄

This is a pet peeve of mine. I've bought several framing squares and other squares and had to tweak most of them. Squares have 1 job, and that's to be square. If a saw doesn't cut or a drill doesn't drill, we take it back to the store. If a square isn't square, most people don't notice or don't care. If my miter saw or saw guide cuts out of square, I can't rest until I fix it!

I love your channel man. All the other woodworking channels try to be funny and entertaining, which has its own merits, but yours is so educational and informative. If I was going to take a woodworking class, I’d want it to be taught by you.

Thanks for a great tutorial. The explanation of the pencil point was spot on. I never gave the edge that much thought. Thanks

The deepest dives in the community. I very much appreciate it.

Thank you for the video and taking the time to make it. I learned a bit more than what I did. I've seen only a couple of your videos here and there. Keep up your thorough work. I do enjoy learning from you.

Well done! Excellent explanation and great info as always! Looking forward to your next video!

I have learned so much from your videos! I am new to woodworking and since my workshop isn't heated, I have been inside absorbing woodworking tutorial videos like crazy. You have become one of my favorites because you explain everything so it is easy to follow even though you pack so much detail into your explanations. Thank you so much for your videos!!!

Brilliant video, thank you. Love this series.

Love these in depth videos. Nobody else is doing content quite like you!

Love this series. It’s been very informative

Amazing in-depth information. Thanks for this.

Great breakdown as always. Just picked up the Milwaukee 4 1/2" trim square as the Woodpeckers delve square is a bit outside my budget. I actually spent about 10 min comparing squares at Home Depot by placing them edge to edge. I finally found two that allowed minimal light through at the top edge only, I purchased one of these.

Another awesome video! It just illustrates that there is no mathematically absolute perfection, even in higher end tools. Wood working is all about tolerances and whether you can accept these or not.

Thanks for the content! I'd love to see the same video done for straightedges. How to test them without a known perfect reference surface, how straight is "straight enough", etc

You’re a channel is so informative I really appreciate what you’re doing keep up the good work

fantastic tips! keep it up...

I appreciate these deep dives lately.

Very helpful, especially the last few minutes putting it all in practical perspective. Precision layout tools are only as useful as the cutting/planing/joinery that follows. Thanks.

Great information and very helpful. Keep it up 👍

Very nice video. You have a great way of explaining things. I have a suggestion for a future video in the same vein as this series on precision. As someone who spent my life in a very precise job, one of the things I see missed on so many videos talking about the subject is the need for the most precision in the beginning stages of a project to keep the tolerance creep to a minimum. The more you are off at each stage the more it compiles until it becomes impossible to get the last two pieces to fit together without a bigger hammer. I hope that made sense. I think you would do an excellent job getting that message across, most likely better than I'm laying it out here.

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely! I completely understand and I have thought about this idea as well in the past. From time to time I try to tell people about that, but it's more in passing than a dedicated topic. Great idea though!

@DonsWoodies

3 жыл бұрын

@@InspireWoodcraft One of the guys I worked with was a real card. Saw someone give him a small die set and the clearance between the punch and die was supposed to be .0003" total. It was .0004". He complained that it was no good. When asked why, as it was only off .0001" his response was "If you let them go with .0001 (we called that "a tenth") soon it's 2 tenths, 3 tenths, and pretty soon you miss it by a whole thou. Then you're in real trouble."

Thank you for making videos like this. I’m a fairly new woodworker and I’ve learned how important having square material is after making a brick pattern cutting board which is about 1/32 off. It really shows up. Luckily my son liked the board enough to take it home. I need to start investing in better measurement tools.

Another brilliant video, thank you.

Hey Jodee. You forgot that part where you say, "I'm giving away these Woodpeckers squares. Just leave a comment to enter." 😁... Thanks for another great, informative video.

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

Ha! Yeah I'm kind of in over my head right now with that.

@GreenAppelPie

3 жыл бұрын

Amazon bro

Use blue painters tape at the board. Scribe wirh a knife and remove the offcut. There you have a clear visible line.

Well done!

Great video, dude! Thanks a lot! 😊 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

It wood have been informative to show how to correct a square out of square.

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

I might do that in another video or videos. There are so many material choices and methods for squaring tools, and so many different types of tools. It's just too much to cover in one video.

Another great vid.

Hi good job sir.... very educative videos....my name is Mwaura From Kenya... keep doing the good work.

Chiseling the pencil edge before drawing the line is a smart trick. 👍

Excellent video...Thank you! By the way, Woodpecker makes accurate and professional tools. Yes, they are pricey but you are paying for the quality. It is amazing to see how many tools are not a 90 degrees and using they would negatively impact on the quality of your wood project.

Another good video! Question then for you, when you make cross cut sleds... do you just square to the blade with a square or do you do the 5 cut test or something like that. I feel like there, square enough is also the case?

@pawpawstew

3 жыл бұрын

That's an excellent question. In woodworking as with anything else, we keep asking ourselves "How good is good enough?". If you go back and watch videos in which the five cut method is used. No one, not even William Ng can get the back fence absolutely perfect. So, there's an acceptable level of tolerance. I've got a set of machinist squares that are advertised as being true to .0006. Now, my thought is if that's acceptable for machinist work, it's definitely ok for woodworking. However, my machinist square is only 6". Now, if one of those longer Woodpecker squares is that precise, then personally, I wouldn't bother with the five cut method. I'd use the Woodpeckers square to set my fence, and rock on. Plus, I've got to keep reminding myself that wood is organic and constantly moving, so I'm going to get different tolerances day by day. That could drive you nuts if you set yourself to chasing numbers in the thousandths.

woodworking uses a live medium. It changes with temp., humidity, air pressure, etc. Exactness will only be exact for a split second and than it won't. If you worry about anything finer than a sixteens of an inch go buy a metal lathe. We'll both be happier.

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

At the risk of sounding argumentative, that's not exactly true. There is a common misconception (amongst people who don't do fine woodwork, I assume) that wood should not, or cannot be milled to tolerances less than 1/16". If this were true, we wouldn't have graduations on measuring devices that go to 1/32" or 1/64". We wouldn't have hand tools that can shave off 1/1000 of an inch for material fitment. One of the biggest and most important lessons in woodworking is learning HOW wood moves and why. Moisture content, grain direction, parts orientation, type of joinery system used - these all have something to do with successfully putting together wood parts that have been milled to high tolerances and keeping them in their place. Traditional wood joinery can be considered weak and unacceptable if allowed to have 1/16" irregularities. Imagine dovetails or box joints with that big of a gap! It is all a part of the process. It's not for everyone, but it is possible.

@chuckgrumble5440

3 жыл бұрын

always this guy

@AdamKirbyMusic

3 жыл бұрын

1/16" variance is waaay too much imo. I try to get 1/32" or less for most applications.

Instead of pencil, put down a piece of tape (color it with felt pen if need be). Then cut a strip of tape off with the marking knife. Flip the square over and slide it up to the cut edge of the tape. Makes it really easy to see. Plus, and make multiple subsequent checks by making another cut.

Drafters rotate mechanical pencils as they draw the line in order to keep the width constant. At least all the old school drafters that taught me told me that.

I use a tungsten carbide scriber on an old saw blade

In frustration with practical problems I was having; I've recently taken a deep dive down this particular rabbit hole. I have a vintage and a new Starrett combination square. Neither agreed with each other. I bought a square to compare other squares to that (the maker claims) conforms to DIN875-0. DIN875-0 is tool room quality. The standard you use to compare other squares too. DIN875-0 has allowed variances measured in microns. Surprisingly, squares that (say) they meet this standard are very affordable in sub-125mm/5in long sizes. And that length is good enough, in my opinion anyway, for woodworkers. For woodworkers, squares that conform to DIN875-2 are more than good enough. I do not have access to tool room tools that could verify which actual standard the square I bought would conform to, but I think the point is moot. Turns out neither of my Starrett squares were correct; compared to the DIN875-0 reference square. I have trued both squares up relative to this reference square and I'm now happy. My practical problems have gone away and that, IMO, means it is good enough.

Jodie, I think that the squares are used for marking and reference guide but the most important part of getting a square cut is the cutting equipment not the marking equipment.

What do you think of using the electronic angle device? Zero it at one position and move device along to other end. It won't hold magnetically on the aluminum squares, but might work on the steel squares.

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

Great question. They seem to be hit-and-miss with accuracy, as with all tools. Even the ever popular Wixey gauge has people who say it's perfect and people who say it's off. I suppose it would also matter the level of accuracy the particular gauge reads, like in fractions of a degree.

I did this to verify my track saw rail was not straight. Draw a thin line from one end to the other (metal side) flip it over match the line ends and draw another line. there is a noticeable gap right in the middle. if the rail was straight it would've resulted in just one visible line.

Everything you were seeing I was also seeing clearly on my pc monitor

I prefer to use the marking knife, then fill in with a pencil if I can't see it. But, usually, I make my mark deep enough to see it. Cheers :)

Try using a 1-2-3 gauge block instead of a square for a reference.

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

Great idea. Thanks for mentioning. I don't just because they aren't big enough for the common squares that I use, but for smaller stuff that makes a ton of sense.

If I remember you can even get 0.3mm mechanical pencils. The pencil line gets fatter one end of the line because the lead wears, a draftsman will compensate for this by rotating the pencil slowly as they draw the line. Another thing you can do is buy a harder lead, maybe 2H or 4H. It won't wear as fast and it won't leave a dark mark that is harder to remove.

One of the absolute biggest changes in my woodworking over the years is learning how much accuracy matters. But now I've started to wonder HOW MUCH accuracy is needed? I want my table saw fence to be aligned with my blade by as little as possible, especially for safety. My crosscut sled--how accurate do I need to shoot for in the five-cut-method? When do I stop futzing with it, and just accept that it's good enough? The longer my workpieces, the more they'll expose the lack of squareness of one end--but how square is "square enough" for woodworking? (It varies, of course!) And with measurements, how much does 1/128" matter? Oh, it matters! How about 1/256"? The bigger the project, the less such fine measurements may matter--but they still matter.

How might one check a t square for square?

Surly you can use a knife line then run a sharp pencil along it so you can see it.

Ummmmm......wasn't the 6" woodpecker you were using as a control the very same one you said was slight out of square? Wouldn't that disqualify it as a control?

When you were discussing how a line can be thicker and or thinner at the top or bottom of the drawn line, you forgot to mention lead hardness. A soft lead will be more likely to thicker as you draw the line as opposed to a harder lead will not as much if at all

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah this has been discussed a lot over time. But then we get into the debate of hardness of lead vs scratches vs hardness of wood, and so on and so forth. I figured I would save that debate for later. I think most folks use a #2 pencil or HB lead (since it comes with most pencils) and this gives them a quick, accurate way to get by.

you can use a 0.1m fine liner (sakura ones are awesome) they won't ever change the line width and you can get a super accurate mark. also, you can sharpen a carpenter's pencil as a chisel and get flat on one side and sharp in the other (as if it was a marking knife) and since the lead is wider than a regular pencil they can hold that sharp tip much better and create a very consistent line.

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting. I find that I can't use even .3 or .4 in the shop with regular use without lead breakage. Plus it disappears very quickly! And I have to stop and go get one of them.

@VaracolacidVesci

3 жыл бұрын

@@InspireWoodcraft oh but dont use mechanical pencil. Use fine liners. Those have a felt tip. You have to be caferul. But checking squares is not like a daily task, and i try to use them on more smooth surfaces like mdf or sometimes i use a glass covered with vinyl wrap.

After you cut some wood as accurately as that, the next day that piece will be like "Nah I'm going change just a little to screw that woodworker up." Good points though about accuracy and if it is fine for what you are making. Is hard to go to store and check a square before buying. Where I live there is only the usual culprits on the shelves and maybe only one or two to pick from, so I'd likely have to order online. How many times would you have to send even a mid priced one back before you were satisfied with it? Thanks for the vids and your attention to detail, it helps inspire me to get back into working with wood.

To show a knife line, you might cast light from the side.

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting. I haven't heard that before. It's a lot to set up to film for. I realize I am in a unique position in those terms, but filming knife lines is unbearable!

I have that Empire square and it is more accurate than any of my cutting machines, so the accuracy of the square is irrelevant! Lol What good would a super accurate square be when I can't even cut that accurately!

I left my woodpecker at the zoo...

Anything measured yesterday, may or may not measure the same today. What you thought was true yesterday, may or may not be true today.

If you start your mark at the tip of the square, you’ll end up with a sharper line where it most matters. (8:00)

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

Care to explain. I looked at the time stamp but I am not sure I understand.

@philshock3805

3 жыл бұрын

@@InspireWoodcraft I believe he's saying if you start your line at the point where it would show the greatest discrepancy (tip of the square rather than the heel), you'd get a better visual clue of any difference. (since the freshly sharpened pencil hasn't worn down yet)

woodpeckers squares only. woohoo

Use to enjoy ur channel until woodpeckers claimed your soul.now it's a giant commercial. Hope they are paying well bro.

@InspireWoodcraft

3 жыл бұрын

It’s a commercial because I used a Woodpeckers branded square as my control square? I didn’t even recommend it to the viewer.

@hardenwooddesign389

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds a little like tool envy to me. What I heard was decide what is acceptable in your shop. If harbor freight is what you have and what you can afford, use it. Woodpeckers have very nice tools and I own a few, but I'm not jealous or downing someone for having more than I have. You missed the entire point of the video. I suppose anyone that uses Festool is a shill too huh?

The squarest square is a circle.

With all due respect, this video is about 16 minutes too long.