One small correction Ian: the stocks on theses are actually quite fragile. The ball pommel was to facilitate drawing them on horseback from saddle holsters, not to club opponents. Many central european cavalry actually still carried maces or war hammers at this period for clubbing purposes 😃 Using these to club someone would be like using a presentation grade Nimschke Colt to pistol whip someone

@ForgottenWeapons

7 жыл бұрын

Well, that would make sense - thanks! I figured the ball pommel was an aesthetic holdover.

@andypughtube

5 жыл бұрын

If it is going to distract them from killing you that might be a good trade.

@drsnova7313

5 жыл бұрын

Combination firearms were a thing, though - so it would not surprise me to see a "pistol mace" in some museum, despite bladed combination weapons seemingly being more popular (Axe guns, rapier guns,...). It was just not the norm by any means.

Sometimes, Ian's delivery of otherwise mundane sentences is hilarious. "The manufacturer is dead. The original commissioner is dead. The intermediate owners are dead"

One has to wonder if in 300 years there will be counterfeit Glocks...

@AcornFox

7 жыл бұрын

Glocks aren't rare or decorative. They are the epitome of utilitarian design, and there are hundreds of thousands of them in circulation. I personally am not wondering that lol

@ScottRuggels

7 жыл бұрын

No, but probably counterfeit AR-15s with fake Vietnam era markings.

@ScottRuggels

7 жыл бұрын

bludmakesgrassgrow complete with the rearing horse? Recievers and the U.S. government markings, and that looong flash hider? Nice.

@TheBrokenLife

7 жыл бұрын

Scott Ruggels You're sorta missing the point about what political implications there are in the next 300 years for firearms. Picking a super common gun wasn't an accident on my part.

@exploatores

7 жыл бұрын

It would not suprice me if they com earlyer then that.

You should change the title to wheel or fake

@ziggybarth5026

3 жыл бұрын

Ha!

in the ancient coin world, some forgery's are as sought after because of who they were made by..

@acedia_14

7 жыл бұрын

interesting

@gregmiller9710

7 жыл бұрын

The Nihilist yes it is, i'm sure that wasn't their intent @ the time, but it shows how funny/strange the world of collecting anything can be...

@MadnerKami

7 жыл бұрын

+Greg Miller Is it really strange?`Collectors generally look for unique or at least rare items and surviving forgeries are, by definition, very unique.

@gregmiller9710

7 жыл бұрын

MadnerKami indeed, they are..

@RyNsWoRLD

7 жыл бұрын

I know fairly little about coin collecting, but now you mention it, I think I would actually prefer a counterfeit coin of some providence, because it has some real story behind it. The guy who made it would be something of a villain, and a pirate-era piece of eight forged by a notorious criminal is so much cooler than a legally minted coin.

I share your sentiments regarding fakes and replicas. It may sound like a strange comparison to some but I am hugely into vintage clothing. A pair of mint condition Levi's 501 jeans from the 50's today is worth thousands of dollars and even if you would wear them I would consider it sacrilege to wear and tear on such a piece of history. Thankfully there are Japanese companies who produces exact (and sometimes even higher quality than the original) replicas of those jeans so that you can actually wear it and appreciate it as a normal garment without messing with history - I think that notion applies to Uberti revolvers and other clearly marked high quality replicas that lets people experience and enjoy something historic without messing with museum grade historical items and it is a concept that I highly support.

I recall a friend looking for a violin to suit her growing career. She was considering an early fake of a Stradivarius made in the late 1700s to early 1800s. It was a fake, but was still quite old, and quite good. It was not represented (at the time she was looking at it) as anything other than a quality fake and was still quite valuable. I guess it never occurred to me that this conundrum of quality, valuable fakes also happened with firearms.

@MadnerKami

7 жыл бұрын

It really happens to everything that you can make money from or, in some cases, literally money (ancient forged currency). Just because something is fake, doesn`t automatically mean it's inferior or bad either. It's just not an original.

@ForgottenWeapons

7 жыл бұрын

I have a friend who bought a fake cased 20-shot Broomhandle Mauser for $15k knowing that it was a fake, because it was still a really nice gun.

@drmaudio

7 жыл бұрын

Forgotten Weapons From that perspective, I guess a fake can be a good deal, regardless of the makers original intent.

@kevinschultz6091

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I've heard that some of the forged Stradivarius violins are actually just as good, if not better, than some of the originals.

@drmaudio

7 жыл бұрын

MadnerKami Now that it is put in front of me, it stands to reason.

I used to work as a guide at a castle/stately home in UK . One of the owner's noble forebears was really into collecting medieval arms and armour (it was in the late 18th Century in England the rich started a craze for collecting and displaying it - till them no one bothered to keep it) As he could afford experts to buy it for him he built in the 1860s an impressive collection of the real deal including a 700 year old long sword and saddle. But you also had back then supply and demand - only a few bits of armour left and lots of demand. People began to make fake armour. About half a dozen fakes found their way into the castle collection. Now the interesting bit - the fakes have become collectible and rare and valuable in their own right. The castle ones are by a crook called Harmsworth who used back in the 1850s old bits of modern that is Victorian stove pipe (I am not kidding) to make painfully obvious fake helmets "from the 12th (1100s AD) century" one even utilizes a bit of the door you use to put fuel in the stove. He made a fortune and today his fakes are worth a fortune too as "genuine fakes by Harmsworth". I think there should be an international agreement amongst major auction houses about what is fake and what is not and what has been "restored" or "school of" (ie copied at the time). Food for thought!

Even if you made one yesterday it would still be a genuine wheel lock, just younger. It is only fake if it has markings intended to deceive.

Standard issue in the Order of Sigmar.

@TehSEOULMAN

7 жыл бұрын

The Empire actually typically produces flintlocks, if I remember correctly.

@AbokaseeRed

7 жыл бұрын

BLESS THIS RAVAGED BODY

@Sharky1147

7 жыл бұрын

RRRRAT SSSCUMMMM!!

@AVKnecht

7 жыл бұрын

Funfact: A small town in the outskirts of Nuremberg is actually called Altdorf.

@balderfrey20

5 жыл бұрын

Inquisition approved

Gun Jesus could narrate for audiobooks, he's so well spoken and enjoyable to listen to

@brabhamfreaman166

6 жыл бұрын

SimplyVertx If you’re trying to say he has a face for radio then, one, I disagree and, two, just damn well say it.

@buildingblocks51

4 жыл бұрын

im from the future. your wish has come true

I think the guild mark makes it more of a fake than a reproduction, But, Of course it's a legitimate antique in It's own right today! So it's still a cool piece!

@ludditeneaderthal

7 жыл бұрын

but look at the guild marks. the "phoney" mark is cut VERY deep, the real mark is a lopsided stamp. it's more like a "copy", with a deliberate flaw (because deep, even, perfect guild marks or proofs are not often seen on round barrels until modern tooling), so "anybody who knows his stuff" can distinguish it (like the minor differences in late production colt BP revolvers, so the huckster can't market them as original). it also lacks the "back up stamp", the unicorn, so is "incompletely marked" in comparison to the vintage original whose form it seems to be simulating so well. it seems far more like a "stand in" for a ceremonial or museum piece that had begun to deteriorate, or a family heirloom similarly ravaged by old father time

Those pistols should be in a museum!

I generally prefer the idea of a faithful but honest reproduction; no chance of damaging or destroying an actual piece, probably pretty good craftsmanship with generally better materials, etc. Anyway, this sort of thing is why I'd place, in discreet locations, a sign that it wasn't authentic and who it was actually made by.

@Fernando-sd6xt

4 жыл бұрын

I think just swapping out the markings to reflect actual manufacturer and date should probably be sufficient.

both are spectacular! the repro, to me, looks like it is an apprentices "master's thesis". it entirely has the flavor of "make me one of these, in such a manner as to be indistinguishable from the original in form, artistry, and function". the guild mark is actually cut in a manner which is demonstrably different than the original (far deeper relief), which tends to indicate a deliberate "flaw" to prevent accusation of fakery. i think the idea is backed up by the fact it is an incredibly "out of the ordinary" project for just about anywhere in the 19th century. there would be no parts to "fake it" with (unlike a caplock or flinter, where suitable salvage would be quite common). either that, or perhaps a "line for line replacement" for some noble's ancestor's "battle winning gonn" that felled a pirate, brigand, or dutchman, that was starting to show the scourges of time. or, alternatively, an heirloom used in a "rite of ascension", remade for similar "ravages of time" reasons. the one thing it absolutely does NOT look like is a "fake". the MOP use instead of ivory would tend to indicate the indian ocean, or pacific, so perhaps a "pasha's armorers final exam" of a form that dated back to the origins of the armory itself?

Both are beautiful pieces of art

The Victorian gun might have been an apprentice piece, something like a final exam at the end of an apprenticeship.

The engraving/inlay jobs on both are absolutely breathtaking. my god

People were dabbing and making memes 500 years ago.

@gazeboist4535

5 жыл бұрын

All these "mace heads" people are putting on the backs of their pistols ... get you a pommel to end your foe properly.

@manowartank8784

5 жыл бұрын

*RIGHTLY!

@1r0zz

4 жыл бұрын

Memes absolutely existed... The first meme we define as such is from ww2...but probably already existed recurrence of a similar situation.

The highly skilled yet ethical modern builders will often build bench copies of historical originals as a way to study their construction. The only difference being that the modern builder would stamp his/her name and date on the bottom of the barrel (not seen unless the barrel is removed) or the inside of the lock plate. If you are contemplating purchasing a gun and want to see if it’s modern or original, look at those places for a builders mark.

I want Ian saying "despicable" as my Windows error sound.

In the 90s there were a lot of wheel lock kits made by Jeffery Schroeder (now sadly dead). He made beautiful reproductions aside from the kits. Occasionally you can find kits that were never completed but his weapons are collectible in and of themselves. My father used to work with him in other endeavors, and we now kick ourselves for not picking a couple up.

In general I love reproductions of everything. I bought a reproduction chair for one thing. The quality is the same but it's a quarter of the price. In some cases the quality can be better.

Quality never goes out of style.

Another treat from Ian, with his seemingly encyclopedic knowledge of firearms.

Really cool video! Just curious, what watch are you wearing?

Thank you Ian for another great educational video of the great history of guns. I have a reproduction Cult SAA in .45 Cult and I am always having to defend my reason for owning an Uberti firearm. I love it and have a great time shooting it while never claiming that is authentic.

@ForgottenWeapons

7 жыл бұрын

My only SAA is also an Uberti. :)

@RetroARguy

7 жыл бұрын

Hands down the nicest shooting revolver I've ever owned is a Taylor's Imported Uberti.

@FinalLugiaGuardian

7 жыл бұрын

Is it an actual Colt brand single action army revolver? If it is made by Colt (since Colt is the origin designer and has been making it since 1873) then it is not a reproduction. A new Colt SAA is just as much of an original as a Colt SAA that was made in the 1870s.

The sharp rake on the grip angle which looks so uncomfortable is so you can fire it looking through a cuirassier's helmet. They did think those things out.

is it wheely fake? ;D

@mutthead1444

3 жыл бұрын

Get out

@Forgotten Weapons Is it possible that the reproduction was made by the same guild as the original, just a few centuries later?

The dark wood on the Victorian one is really gorgeous

So it seems that under the right conditions even a replica can be one hell of a treasure.

Great video. Any chances for more black powder weapon videos?

Good video, and very nice wheel guns, never though that there'd be a "uberti" a hundred years ago, but I guess people haven't changed much through history

I would have really enjoyed seeing Ian show off the mechanisms of these pistols. But considering the age and how intricate these pistols are, I'm not surprised at all he didn't. Can't fault him for it either, I know I wouldn't want to break one of those beauties!

Neat! Always learn something in your videos!

Wow the craftmanship

A great look at an unknown but valid point of history.

Actually had this EXACT thing happen to me about a month ago. I bought a Martini Enfield that was covered in patina and did a bit of cleaning and whoa and behold the "N" in Enfield was in Crylic! No fault on the guy who sold it to me (as he offered a complete refund)! Just a cool Kyhber Pass gun that I'd gotten by chance for a decent price. It even has some original British parts which added further interest in my opinion!

My jaw was hanging open pretty much the whole video. incredible stuff.

Both are just beautiful. I really like the bell housing on the original.

Did you determine one of these is Victorian and the other is from Nuremburg, or was it Rock Island, or the owner? What is the process for making the determination? Obviously reference books, but do you have any personal knowledge? I've watched both your forensics conference presentation videos, and they were one of the reasons I subscribed!

@ForgottenWeapons

7 жыл бұрын

In this case, I deferred to the consignor and RIA - this isn't an area where I know enough to make a reliable assessment myself.

@ludditeneaderthal

7 жыл бұрын

the shellac/varnish. the wood. mostly, that ivory. you would also do well to examine the barrel interior, no matter if rifled or smooth. the interior parts of the lockwork will also contain "tells" of working by more modern tooling and techniques. familiarity with the original type, and "too many minor divergences" related to tools used would be most likely, along with shellac/varnish chemistry (which is as unique as fingerprints until the 19th century, and was closely guarded "secret skonk piss formula"). it would seem a tough job, but one must consider it is hand made, entirely. the "old school" way was "it is done THIS WAY ONLY!!", so every use of a tool (like a chisel cutting out the side plate) is going to have an incredibly similar pattern in every example from the same "house". the "tiny nibbles" in a repro will be very different, unless the maker trained in exactly the same style. you will see differences in file marks (because different hands made the files to different patterns, as second year projects). polishing and burnishing will be divergent, in grits used (they all leave evidence), wheel types, and method of application. a "wheel lock guy" could probably spot the repro just on shapes of springs, cam angles, and, easiest of all to see, the cuts of the gravers used. hell, the far too deep relief proof is screamingly divergent. too many minor "template" flaws in such a "top shelf" piece from a specific region is just something that really couldn't exist in reality, so it would HAVE to be a repro/"fake".

I'm excited to see the prices the go for

I loved these guns when they showed them in Wanted. Wesley has some dope ass pistols

Any chance you'd be able to get a WA2000 to cover? Only 176 were produced and might be hard to even come into contact with but they only saw a short life in the 1980s.

I saw this video and the one about the other 16th-century german rifle, they are absolutely gorgeous. If I would have any money I would start collecting these.

Both are beautiful works of art and craftsmanship. They have probably never been fired because they were basically made to be presentation pieces. There are dozens like these in the King of Denmark's collection at the firearms Museet in Copenhagen.

Those look like they're about to summon final fantasy demons.

Say Ian could you do a full history on Wheellock pistols and maybe even shoot one?

Those are beautiful. I was dying to see them taken apart, but they are so nice I'm kinda glad he didn't.

Wow 400 years old that’s crazy!!

Who got punched in the face at 0:43?

@michaelj595

7 жыл бұрын

The microphone

The easiest way to tell the difference is the stampings. After the industrial revolution marking stamps were deeper. The same is true of furniture. From the 40s through to the 70s they were reproducing old style furniture from Rococo on. Actually the Victorian era was a great period for copying high end furniture. So you can in Rococo have original, Victorian copies and mid 20th century copies. They all have value today. Even the mid 20th century which in the 70s and 80s was scorned. Turns out they are better quality than modern manufactured furniture. Same today with Japanese products of the 60s. They were totally scorned in their day as all junk. Today we know better. Hardware store labeled guns are another area.

That 19th century gun sure looks like it was made with original metal parts (screws especially) but has a brand new stock.

The kind of channel that you can instantly like and then relax to.

Do the pommels change the center of gravity in any major way? I've always thought that they were primarily maces, but functioned as a counterweight to the barrel?

@talltroll7092

3 жыл бұрын

It's more so you can draw them easily on horseback. Pistol cavalry was a thing for a while, with one primary tactic being to ride up to an infantry formation, fire a volley at "long" range (say 50-70 yards), and then either withdraw to reload while the next line steps up to fire, or to go into the charge and fire a second volley at "short" range (about 10 yards) before driving the charge home

A pistol from my hometown? Awesome!

I am curious to know if the pommels on pistols like these were designed to work as a counter weight to the barrels and balance the gun or if they were solely designed as melee weapons.

What was the hammer price on those beautiful old guns?

@MrRenegadeshinobi

5 жыл бұрын

George Rapp check the description, he put the prices there.

So how do you tell that the 19th century version is a reproduction? The barrel style?

Thanks Ian. Is there a company that makes them now?

Beautiful work of art

Its highly probable that the replica was passed off as and original. There was a large interest in ancient, medieval, and renaissance artifacts. Many fakes were made and passed off as antiques. Arms, armor, and art works work all done to feed the rich collectors market. Many of these are of incredible quality and extremely difficult to tell from originals.

That blurry line where guns become art.

@ForgottenWeapons

7 жыл бұрын

Slightly less interesting that the blurry line where art becomes guns. :)

@siouxsettewerks

7 жыл бұрын

Dear Gun Jeebus, Speaking of blurring lines, As you may have noticed, a growing number of followers of HEMA channels also follow your highly tastefull, well thought out, informative, highly technically illuminating, and round and round excellent channel (s), (hence pommel throwing jokes... ) bbbut, ;-( Why hast thou forsaken thine newfound flock, dear Ian!? ;-( www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/1026/lid/2466 A ceremonial two handed sword/combination pistol! That's the weirdest weaponry porn we crave! An you did not cover it! Where we Egyptians, that would be considered the 11th plague of egypt! Tragedy! As of the discovery of the existence of this holy artifact at thine holy Rock Island Auction house, and your occultation of it, I am baffeled by thee. In fact, my all round atheism is even bordering on agnosticism considering Gun Jeesus right nao... ;-) Dear gun jeebus, In ye great wisdom, cover such curious contraptions and Guide us towards the revealed light of the muzzle flash! Reveal to us the magic of fast oxydization of nitrous and or/suplhurous compounds! All joke aside, great video as allways, but if such wondrous contraptions of sharp pointy stabby cutty things, and stuff that goes bang shows up at one of the auction houses you seem to live in, could you please think of us weird freaks! Also, I hope the gun jeesus meme isn't getting irritating, because that two gun match video was hillarious, and a great great gif material! Respectfully yours!

Those triggers look uncomfortably low, like you couldn't get your hand in under them.

@talltroll7092

3 жыл бұрын

These are smoothbore black powder pieces. Worrying about trigger ergonomics just wasn't an issue when either of them were made

“Even this Victorian era wheel-lock pistol has some good value of its own” Pawnstars: *look, I’ll give you 75$, best I can do*

@bryanbressem5026

3 жыл бұрын

And I got overhead and someone might reproduce it and I'll lose value, $25 and not a penny more

@patrickcharette2151

3 жыл бұрын

@@bryanbressem5026 lollll yes 😂😂

A question for one of your Q&A videos: Did you ever come across a situation where you maybe found an old gun or where given an old gun that had been handled very poorly and therefore couldn't be resold where you Historian-heart just shattered...?

I like the looks of the replica more than the original It's not overly ornate and the colours feel more elegant to look at

Beautiful guns of artistry.

4:20 im drunk and this picture really threw me off at first. i thought i was already seeing double lol

I noticed that not too long ago many black powder firearms Co.'s were making flint lock kits that could be put on their percussion cap rifles & single shot pistols. Is their a modern Co. that is making wheel lock kits ? I've been told that the wheel lock had a tendancies to break down or wear out after moderate use & was overly complex & required watch making skills in order to repair ( & yet it was a lot safer than a match lock). I would think that there would be a growing market of enthusiasts who wanted a wheel lock, are there any Co.'s that are producing them? TY & Great show as usual

Is there a video of the M1 Carbine on forgotten weapons? I know it's a common gun but it's a really cool gun and still has a lot of controversy surrounding it.

@jakebriley6493

7 жыл бұрын

InRangeTV on Full30 has some videos on the M1 carbine, on where they put it through a 2 gun I think and another where they discuss the .30 Carbine cartridge.

you should update with what some of these sold for.

The Victorians went through this "Neo-Classical" revival, thing. Never mind the fact that that is an oxymoron, but possibly the best example may be the Chinquedea, because those (Basically a sword/dagger with a broad triangular blade. "Five Fingers" wide, hence the name.) were extremely rare at the time (Rennaisence Italy) and there's little if any provenance on any of them. However, the Victorians started collecting them, there was a bit of a fad, and the blade like a slice of pizza produced a great surface for engraving, gold inlay, and cutting "Fullers" in the sides. Which raises the value, however now there's more reproduction, and Victorian embelleshed blades in museums and collections than there are surviving originals, and there's really not many ways to tell the difference.

@Psiberzerker

5 жыл бұрын

Fullers, or "Blood Groves" aren't cut into blades, they're hammered in, with a pair of Fullers. You know what a Ball-peen hammer is? Well, that's basically like a handle fuller, you hold on the top of the blade, over a spike fuller, stuck in the fuller hole of an anvil. (That's what the square hole is for, the square spike on the bottom of a Fuller.) They stiffen, and lighten blades, however they can also be cut for ornamentation. So, the modern image of Chinquedea often have 5 fullers cut into the blade, for the 5 fingers in the name, as ornamentation. There's theories about whether they were typical of period pieces, but again, there's more reproductions, and pieces that were embellished by the "Neoclassical" Victorians than existing period blades, so we'll probably never know what the typical ones looked like in the back alleys of Venice.

@Psiberzerker

5 жыл бұрын

The American version of it is the "Arkansas Toothpick," a contemporary competitor of the Bowie Knife. They're not typically fullered, because Stock Removal is more common, and easier than hand forging to shape. However, Bowie Knives are now more collectible.

I do have a question... does the newer wheellock have a sight on it? Looks like a v-notch behind the Nuremburg stamp.

@HadToChangeMyName_YoutubeSucks

7 жыл бұрын

I saw that as well.

@myramadd6651

7 жыл бұрын

The Unknown decepticon thanks

@HadToChangeMyName_YoutubeSucks

7 жыл бұрын

Makes some sense.

6:07 "Rampant Unicorn"

"People. People never changes."--Ian

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", as they say. Except when it comes to repros, you have to *make it* as flattering as possible, and not be a mockery of a cheap imitation. I think the whole issue with "fakes" in this particular case can be solved through the trader's discretion of actually being honest about the item's origins.

Not necessarily about fakes really, but I bought an Astra 600 at a gun show a few years ago for the average cost they were/are going for because I found the history and design interesting. It sat in a case for a year or more, while I lived life and watched Ian's videos and did just fun free time research on guns I owned and was interested in, and then when i took my Astra 600 out shooting the next time I noticed for the first time the markings on the grips area, that I had read about but not seen a photo of before, and realized that I had a West German Police marked/issued Astra 600. It was low serial (15-16000s) but I had never noticed the rather large engravings on the grip area. It just goes to show that you never know what the true story is behind any gun, and could be sitting on a cool piece of history and not even know it.

how does the firing mechanism work?

I can't wait for the, what it sold for video!

Happy Easter Gun Jesus!

It has a pommel? *ending someone rightly intensifies*

the art style on those pistols makes me think of how a lot of expensive fowl hunting shotguns have lots of decoration to them, especially the European over under style.

I was hoping that you were going to talk about how they functioned and the internals.

@ZGryphon

3 жыл бұрын

You may find what you seek in this one: kzread.info/dash/bejne/hJ9h0quMptjKZto.html

Whoever made the fake clearly admired the artwork and craftmanship of the original.

absolutely beautiful firearms!

There is a slight difference in the appearance of the steel. 19th century steel as opposed to the older shear steel.

Screws on original are individual hand made. 19th Century one appears to use machine screws.

I'm still waiting for an Uberti M14 hehehehe

Could you explain how one would tell which was a 16th Century gun and which a 19th Century one. I couldn't spot any obvious differences.

i was realy suprised to see the flag of my hometown in the thumbnail greatings from germany

@talltroll7092

3 жыл бұрын

"German" gunsmiths were well regarded even in the earliest days of European gunpowder weapons

i really want to add some of those designs and mother of pearl inlays to a sporting shotgun, that would be v unique

If someone ever mistakes My Germanic wheel lock pistol I'm building right now as an original. I will gladly take that as a great compliment!

Best to keep ot loaded with a silver ball for those rainy nights crossing the moors.

So what would be the value different between the real and "reproduction" guns? Very interesting!

"Probably a bunch of the other intermediary owners are dead as well." Are you suggesting immortal intermediary owners Ian?

Even the trigger is fancy, bloody hell o.o

I have a few weird logic questions. When is a gun not a gun ,under the law ? and vice versa. Say if you were to buy a firing pin, it's illegal in my country BUT if you were to shape a drill rod into the shape of a firing pin , Is it now a gun part? It didn't come from a gun so it does make any sense to call it a gun part? Under the Singapore law. “arms” means - (a) firearms, air-guns, air-pistols, stun guns, electronic dart guns, automatic guns, automatic pistols, guns or any other kind of gun from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged or noxious fumes or noxious substance can be emitted, and any component part of any such arms; So if you were to make everything from scratch and the facsimile cannot fire any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged, because there is no primer , powder or shot to be discharged out of it, is the facsimile still a gun ? This is of course separated from bring it out and disturbing the peace, a separate law which would be broken.

@classifiedad1

7 жыл бұрын

In the US, it's the serialed part, usually the upper receiver. But on the AR-15, it's the lower receiver. That is technically, the firearm. Firearm components, such as barrels, sights, magazines, etc., are not regulated as such. Depending on the US state (basically a province), restrictions on these components when attached to a firearm varies heavily, from a huge blacklist of banned parts to virtually anything gun related is legal. Some states have specific limitations on magazine capacity, depending on firearm. Certain firearms, such as firearms larger than .50 caliber (except for most shotguns), fully automatic firearms, firearms with shorter barrels than usual (16" for rifles, 18" for shotguns), and other types are considered NFA, or National Firearms Act, regulated firearms. These are subject to a $200 one-time registration tax and a $5 transfer fee. These numbers, while relatively minuscule today, were made in the 1930's, when the dollar held more value than today because of inflation. Firearms converted to fire only blanks are not as stringently controlled, and may possess features that would otherwise make it illegal on an conventional firearm. Air guns of any type are not as stringently controlled. Air guns which are replicas of real guns, such as airsoft guns, must legally be manufactured with a distinct orange muzzle cap. A deactivated gun is not a gun at all, provided it is done so according to law. Also, this law does not regulate firearms made before December 31, 1898, as these are considered antique firearms, with exception to short-barreled rifles, shotguns, and machine guns, which are regulated as NFA items. It's complicated.

@XxMeatShakexX

7 жыл бұрын

It's still a gun- BUT a gun that no longer or never did work, I'd say.

@classifiedad1

7 жыл бұрын

***** Actually, no. In the Supreme Court case United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Co., the United States Government believed that a Thompson-Center Arms Co., pistol-carbine kit, which included a receiver, 10-inch barrel, 16-inch barrel, and stock, constitutes as selling an NFA item. The court ruled in favor of Thompson-Center Arms Co., as the kit came with the 16-inch barrel, the stock, and instructions not to attach the stock when a 10-inch barrel is fitted. Basically, you can have the means to make something illegal, but as you don't use those means to make something illegal, then it's fine to own them. Take a farmer. He will have large quantities of diesel fuel and fertilizer, materials used to create ANFO, an explosive mix. Yet, the farmer is allowed to own these, as long as he doesn't actually turn them into a bomb. Intent is difficult to prove, but making something is. Stating that you will make a bomb and blow up a bunch of people, whether you actually have the means to do so or otherwise, will probably land you in jail for terroristic threatening. Likewise, stating you're going to make a machine gun, whose only purpose is to gun down hordes of people (see History, 1914-1918), may indicate some suspicion on anyone's part. I mean, what purpose does a machine gun have that other, simpler firearms do not have? I can see where a .223 caliber semiautomatic rifle can be useful when hunting, such as pest control. I can see where a semi-automatic shotgun is useful, such as self-defense and for shotgun shooters with a small stature, where a manually-operated action would impart excessive recoil. I can see where a pistol such as a Glock, Beretta, or a Colt Pyton is useful, such as personal defense. But I cannot see why anyone would want an unregistered machine gun other than to challenge authority or gun down a whole bunch of people. And in both cases, authority does have the right to deal with such with measured force.

@RukaSubCh

7 жыл бұрын

+Pilotmario Thanks for the very informative comments. It's interesting to learn about US gun laws, it's really confusing . I'm curious, what the US and different state laws legal definition of a gun or firearm is? Does it vary a lot from state to state, because it seems that New York and California laws seems to vary a lot from states like Texas. +XxMeatShakexX That's true but An example which confuses me is royal nonesuch hardware shop slam fire pistol. I mean it started of as a tube on another tube , at what point would it be considered a firearm.

@mrmundyyy

7 жыл бұрын

In germany, for example, you can buy any gun without a lisence aslong as its a (recreation or real) gunpowder (Flintlock, etc.) gun from before 1900.

Wonder if the Victorian didn't start off with an original barrel and then the rest of the pistol was built around it. Just a thought.

@talltroll7092

3 жыл бұрын

Possible, but probably not. The repro barrel looks to be made of better metal, and the deeper, more uniform guild stamp looks like it may well have been done with a machine, not a manual punch and hammer like the original almost certainly was