WATCH exclusive bonus content where *Kenan* answers audience questions. CLICK the link: triggernometry.locals.com/ CHAPTERS👇 00:00 Intro 01:14 Kenan Malik’s Background 04:07 Britain's Social Change & Issues With Race 10:56 The Rise of The BLM Movement: Was it Positive? 18:34 The Differences Between Diversity & Equality 20:53 Sponsor Message: AG1 22:49 Why Are We Not Talking About Economic Equality? 24:58 The Pessimism Towards Racial Progress 28:41 The Demonisation of The White Working Class 35:59 How Many of The UK’s Conversations on Race Are Imported From America? 39:58 The Racial Spectrum: Class & Race 45:18 Discussing All Facets Of Racial Problems 50:16 Sponsor Message: Locals 51:16 How Do We Fix Disparities Between The People At The Top & Bottom of Society? 55:09 The Fragmentation of Unions & The Working Class 1:00:31 Is Kenan Optimistic About a Potential Labour Government? 1:05:44 What’s the One Thing We’re Not Talking About?

@VioletACordy

11 ай бұрын

THANK YOU💥VERY INTERESTING 💥

@markhutton6055

11 ай бұрын

Anti-Racism is a mirror image of Racism, it is Anti in the way Anti-matter is to matter. Anti-Racism IS racism.

@markhutton6055

11 ай бұрын

I think he misses the point about BLM. Many black people in America don't which is why they responded with All Black Lives Matter. BLM implies Only Black Lives Matter, murdering several people for stating the truism All Lives Matter. Actually, the Police in the US are 20% (minimum) more likely to shoot a white man than a black man. Please don't propagate lies.

@markhutton6055

11 ай бұрын

They don't want Diversity, they don't even espouse diversity. It is a simple tool used to manipulate the disadvantaged. (The same way elites have manipulated the disadvantaged throughout history Russia, Mexico, China). They don't want Diversity, if they did they wouldn't cancel people for being different.

@markhutton6055

11 ай бұрын

I suggest you come to Peterborough where migrant business is booming. There is a relationship between the strength of trade unions and poverty.

Jesus, Morgan Freeman answered this in 2 minutes in no uncertain terms - if you focus upon it, you’re going to CREATE it,

@johanswede8200

11 ай бұрын

Agree a little bit...But very few people have the talent of Mr Freeman...

@iggle6448

11 ай бұрын

@@johanswede8200 LOL! How much talent does it take to say "If you want to stop racism, just stop talking about it!" ?? 🤣🤣🤣

@johanswede8200

11 ай бұрын

@@iggle6448 Sorry...I thought you meant becoming successful like Morgan...

@Puzzlesocks

11 ай бұрын

@@johanswede8200 I guess that depends on what you call becoming successful. Fame and fortune on that level should probably not be a life goal, and it comes with a whole host of other hardships people often disregard.

@glenncox9128

11 ай бұрын

The Woke are disingenuous. They attempt to disguise their envy as sympathy. Surprisingly, many people believe this lie, and ignorantly promote racism as a result. I believe Malcolm X proposed a very similar sentiment, about white liberals manipulating blacks against white conservatives.

Completely agree I think diversity and inclusion is causing tribalism and division

@Covers-and-Commentary

11 ай бұрын

that already existed

@ConsueloCastanuela

11 ай бұрын

By design. Divide and conquer.

@chasehedges6775

11 ай бұрын

@@ConsueloCastanuela Good point

@Bobmudu35UK

11 ай бұрын

​@@Covers-and-Commentarywhen?

@oisinoc

11 ай бұрын

The West was far better off when it wasn't diverse. We're going to spend another decade pretending that's not the case.

As an actress in the uk , if you are black , you are much more likely now to get the job. Our adverts are almost all now peopled by black or mixed race actors. If you didn’t know better you would think the white population would be 13% not 85 % not the other way round so in terms of employment it is now skewed in favour of ethnic minorities.

@johnw574

11 ай бұрын

Black people are like 2-3% in the UK, they're 13% in the US. They are way, way overrepresented in the UK. Thanks to American politics.

@jeffh2166

11 ай бұрын

Lol I find this fact amusing as I try and spot the white person in an adverts these days

@BonusHole

11 ай бұрын

This will backfire tremendously. Sales will drop if they are not already dropping. For years people complained that mens fitness magazines didn't feature black male models on the cover. But the industry had done this previously and found their sales dropped off when they did. Why this was the case is another conversation - but irrelevant to a business out to make as much money as possible in a majority white country. Get woke, go broke is practically one of the laws of physics at this point.

@iggle6448

11 ай бұрын

@@jeffh2166 You know what? Businesses may be finding it easier to part black people from their cash...they're milking the market. I strongly object to the patronisation and exploitation of black people.

@tulip5210

11 ай бұрын

its kinda weird bc the uk isn't that much of a multicultural hub. Nor do they have a history of it like the americas. It is weird for people to be offended at 'lack of representation' in a country where they are like 2%. It is like going to china and getting offended at the lack of black people on tv, it isn't a multicultural nation.

Black people are NOT killed disproportionately by police in America. Nice if this guest to reveal that prejudice is more important to him than truth.

@reasonablespeculation3893

11 ай бұрын

he is repeating a myth Everyone assumes it's true.

@ajb7786

11 ай бұрын

@@reasonablespeculation3893 And?

@ssp4795

11 ай бұрын

not sure why the boys didn't push back on these leftist talking points. dogma, propaganda.... not facts.

@johnyoung1761

11 ай бұрын

Proportionate to policing encounters, but not proportionate to population, I believe. He should be clear. Maybe all three should try to be precise when talking about a country foreign to them. But alas. This is maybe first triggernometry where I feel like I'm not learning anything.

@WhizzingFish12

11 ай бұрын

The % of crime committed by this group, especially violent crime, is multiples of their portion of the pop. This drives the disproportionate number of police encounters and thus the possibility of deaths in one direction or another. In the USA, far more police are killed by black suspects than unarmed blacks are killed by police. Facts matter.

Around the 27 minute mark Malik complains that the Labour Party is not going to get rid of the 2 child limit on benefits which hugely increases poverty 'among certain sections of the population'. I presume these sections disproportionately include immigrant families. But any family can make the choice to limit its children to what the family can support ans so avoid large family-caused poverty. What Malik wants is for a huge amount of tax pounds to be passed from smaller families to larger families at the same time aiding greatly the demographic shift away from an indigenous population. Can he see why many indigenous families with 2 children or less might not be keen?

@theinngu5560

11 ай бұрын

Yes and also sad that people don’t understand the whole process of cause and effect….your circumstances then will never put you in victim status which just leads to anger, unhappiness and causes trouble too for those you constantly feel are to blame …not the way to peace and happiness. If people like him could cultivate gratitude for just how much they have been given and the opportunity presented to him and a real honesty of why they are here as opposed to their country of birth or their parents country of birth, then they would surely find much more mental happiness, be nicer to be around and that would in itself bring more pleasant interactions. I feel sorry for these ‘complainers’ as they are very much looking for happiness where it can’t be found.

@WeighedWilson

11 ай бұрын

Sounds like the "liberal" labor party wants to subsidize the conservative leaning big families.

Not finished yet, but some of the premises laid out here seemed to have a particular slant. Black people maybe over represented in police killings, but they are also over represented in the crime statistics. I believe the FBI stats show that you're more likely to be shot if you're white compared to black on a per capita basis, and they believe that disparity is due to the fear of being called racist/inciting a riot. You cannot only acknowledge one side of the coin or you're going to have heavily biased conclusions. Another point of note and according to UK government statistics, is that Indians are out performing white British (who are very middle middle of the road) in most metrics. The lowest performing in most metrics is Travellers. To sum all disparities down to class/race/gender/sexuality is naive at best. One of the main drivers of disparities is culture, south Koreans and Indians perform very well because they have a culture which is heavily driven by educational performance and clear career goals (which are often determined by the parents). If BLM wanted to make a real difference they would try to break the gang culture, promote after school study clubs, hold educational achievement in high regard and you would start seeing a levelling up of individuals and communities. There is a reason that despite all of the persecution that Jewish people have suffered they are still in the top echelon of most metrics.

@ajb7786

11 ай бұрын

Black people are killed by police in America at a lower percentage than all other races.

@reasonablespeculation3893

11 ай бұрын

Blks in the USA are predominantly killed by Blks. I'm no fan of police BUT.... Police deal with/ respond to situations that involve Blks at a much higher rate then would be expected according to the percentage of Blks in the USA population. So per capita, Blks are involved with police more then Wts. Per encounter, police are more likely to kill Whites.

@MZ99698

11 ай бұрын

100% agree with all of your points. Refreshing to see somebody comment on the Jewish community on a right leaning channel without talking about ludicrous, anti semitic conspiracies.

@adamdrouin2295

11 ай бұрын

Don't forget the Asian minority. They were persecuted as well and now are more successful on average than whites. Must be that Asian privilege

@shawnaweesner3759

11 ай бұрын

To: @pete2k7. BLM can’t possibly do the things you suggest they do. They are a bunch of marxist loving racists who want to tear down America, not help it’s black communities! The #1 thing that leaders can do to help black communities is to confront the issue of absentee black fathers in the home (89% of black fathers do not live with their children). Fathers should stay with their children’s mother and the children, in order to make a whole family. Also, going to church as a family is important. Also, having a job is important. As it is now, the Welfare state check is trying to take the place of a father in the home. What BLM should do is give the donations that they were given back to the neighborhood businesses that BLM helped burn down and destroy in the 2020 riots.

“A diverse elite is still an elite.” Powerful statement.

@038Dude

11 ай бұрын

I see you've watched the full two minutes.

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

@@038Dude its the best quote from this video though

@aldovaneyk

11 ай бұрын

@@038Dude I commented at two minutes. Watched and enjoyed the whole show.

"If you want to get rid of racism, stop talking about it." - Thomas Sowell

@taffwob

11 ай бұрын

Weren't those Morgan Freeman's words?

@hermitthefrog8951

11 ай бұрын

@@taffwob - oh, maybe... I was going from memory. I know Freeman said he didn't want black history month... was that in the same conversation?

@Fedorevsky

11 ай бұрын

@@hermitthefrog8951 Yes, I believe Freeman said in that conversation but I think he has said it many times when asked about racism. But I think Sowell has also said basically the same thing.

@hermitthefrog8951

11 ай бұрын

@@Fedorevsky - It's fundamentally true, more people (especially of prominence) should be saying it. Focusing on racism only promotes it - which is the point of Critical Race Theory, BLM, all the MSM race grifters, etc. Cheers, mate!

@j.harrison6744

11 ай бұрын

Haha, I bet your favourite actor is Denzel Washington and your second is Sidney Poitier? You normies are hilarious!

Malek said - "Minorities are disproportionately, working class or poor" But not all minorities... In the UK, Indian's have the highest median household income. Chinese and Indian's also have the highest percentage of people in the top fifth of earners and by quite a margin.

@fritolaid6805

11 ай бұрын

Indians have highest education and income level too in the US

This guy has a really long winded way of saying he has never read anything about critical race theory. He’s not a complete loss on this subject but it’s nuts this dude has came to these conclusions that I understood at 10 years old. Our intellectuals are embarrassing.

@johanswede8200

11 ай бұрын

Normal people trust what they see...on the streets, in the bar, on the beach etc...And they talk about it among their friends and family...Intellectualls...Well, they avoid what I just mentioned...

@grannyannie2948

11 ай бұрын

This guy's a big word salad..

@fraserbailey6347

11 ай бұрын

Yes, he says nothing that we haven't known for years. But he writes for the Guardian, so what else do you expect?

@mark4asp

11 ай бұрын

He came to these conclusions at least 3 decades ago.

@grannyannie2948

11 ай бұрын

@@fraserbailey6347 LoL. Enough said. Typical of Triggernometry, I only listen when I'm cleaning.

13:45 False. The FBI has stopped reporting the numbers by ethnicity because it's an inconvenient fact. Sure, you can say per capita that the rate is higher, but then I'm just going to ask you to take a look at statistics of which group is more likely to be engaged in the behavior required to be in that circumstance.

His last talking point made it clear the guy is unhinged. Moving to Europe (or any other place) is not a human right, and the relevant countries have every right to protect their borders. Protecting the borders does not infringe on the sovereignty of poorer countries.

force equality and see what poverty is really all about.

I disagree about white CVs getting preference (at least here in the US). It depends on who is doing the hiring. I've been working in education and have frequently been disregarded as a candidate because I am white. I've also seen that in general, the race of the hiring manager will dictate which race or ethnicity they hire. Blacks prefer Blacks, Latinos prefer Latinos, etc. I've seen whole departments within an organization where nearly every employee is non white and of the same minority race.

@theinngu5560

11 ай бұрын

And when I worked in education, I saw that the ethnic minorities could abuse their jobs without any comeback….eg not turn up to work without an explanation again and again …..the same action would have caused a white employee to be fired, The stupidity of such actions is plain to see as inevitably those who aren’t treated preferentially will inevitably cultivate resentment. From what I have seen their is far more racism in U.K. amongst ethnic minorities and white leaders who are fearful of being labelled racist than taming at most white people and until this stops, there will be increasing problems.

@annarboriter

11 ай бұрын

That example caused me to doubt all the rest that the speaker had to say and wonder which decade he was still living in

@cb664

11 ай бұрын

@@annarboriter Exactly!

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

The BBC at one time had a policy of only hiring non Caucasian. Not sure if this is still the case. Would never hear of the reverse happening in India or Pakistan 😆

@a.nonimus6705

11 ай бұрын

Racism is alive and well. Perpetuated by those who claim to be its victims

Inequality is normal. Say it with me!

@catwoman7462

11 ай бұрын

Absolutely. If everyone is equal then you have equity, and the only way we can have equity is by levelling everyone down rather than up because there isn't enough money to level everyone up. Then of course within a few years some people will have managed to better themselves and worked their way up so it would never work anyway.

@druharper

11 ай бұрын

@@catwoman7462You are not even equal to your own self from one day to to the next. It’s utter absurdity and goes to show how the Marxist ideology parasite has coiled itself around our brains. We all need a intervention vs Marxism. Constantly searching for something to make us hate ourselves.

@michealfreeman9714

11 ай бұрын

People saying they're fighting for equality aren't really fighting for equality. They're fighting to turn the tables so that it is them on top instead of the other people. This is glaringly apparent in all the movements for diversity and modern feminism. They fight for the right to do things they said was hateful and toxic when the other group was doing it. But now that it's their group doing it, it's stunning and brave and Progressive. Like all the blackwashing or gender swapping that's going on in Hollywood. These groups are using their time in the spotlight to disparage on those that they see as the enemy. Which in most cases is straight white men.

As someone who grew up on a council estate (very poor, the times before minimum wage.) and happens to be a white male, I've been waiting for someone to talk about this. Can't wait to listen.

@ssp4795

11 ай бұрын

lol, you must have disappointed to learn that you - white man - are still the problem.

@johnconnors6412

11 ай бұрын

I'll save you the hassle he didnt give one non mainstream opinion

@MrJREllman

11 ай бұрын

If you grew up on a council estate in Britain, you weren't poor.

@shanecox7942

11 ай бұрын

@@MrJREllman my mum and dad went days without eating.... It's about as per as you could get in the West. Thanks for your reply though

@MrJREllman

11 ай бұрын

@@shanecox7942 Mine did too (well, one of them). But that was before the welfare state. I'm talking about you Shane. No one has gone hungry in the UK since then, unless they have other problems like drug or alcohol addiction.

Same with feminism - its benefitted ambitious women aiming for the glass ceilimg more than cleaners or carers

@grannyannie2948

11 ай бұрын

Absolutely, well said.

@annarboriter

11 ай бұрын

Yes, feminism accords very well with the goals and ambitions of wealthy, high status, and academically credentialed feminists

@EDKguy

11 ай бұрын

"We want a seat at the table" and screw everyone else!

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

As jordan peterson said nobody is calling for equal representation in construction - just in the high paid high status positions which suggests its more about a power grab than equality

@annarboriter

11 ай бұрын

They want equal or better representation at the top and treat the men at the bottom as invisible @@catscan2022

If one guy has 2 million and another has 1 million there is inequality. Inequality is a stupid argument because it’s one you can never define with specifics.

@038Dude

11 ай бұрын

That's why they use it, the extreme left is mired in this sort of language.

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

Inequality per se is not the problem. Its extreme inequality, where you have people living in mansions while others dont have a roof over thejr head and/or food to eat, thats the problem

@Randomcliff01

11 ай бұрын

I have a beautiful life and it doesn't involve millions. I wouldn't change it for money or grand success because they don't equal the time I have with my children

@catwoman7462

11 ай бұрын

Have you noticed that quite recently the word 'equity' is being slipped into conversation? Maybe a lot of people don't know the difference.

@038Dude

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, just another one of those subversive terms.

I wont be buying his book.

@grannyannie2948

11 ай бұрын

Ditto

Diversity and equality are literally antonyms. Actual diversity inevitably produces inequitable outcomes, because otherwise the diversity would be empty and superficial. If diversity means anything, it means differences with meaningful consequences, but then diversity must produce varying results in terms of career choices, incomes, skill proficiencies, and family organization, life priorities and so on and so forth. The paradox--the contradiction--is politically useful, however, because it means you get to have your cake and eat it too. You can appeal to difference (diversity) when it is to your benefit, and then you can appeal to sameness (equality) when that is to your benefit. That these two opposite concepts have somehow become culturally unified allows people to engage in this opportunistic hypocrisy quite unconsciously, unaware of the literal nonsense they espouse.

@evamurray2564

11 ай бұрын

Excellent take on the dichotomy of diversity and equality. Had not thought of these two concepts as antonyms, but they are.

@russellsharpe288

11 ай бұрын

Very well put.

@iggle6448

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for your cogent insight. I've long held that equality isn't possible (nor entirely desirable) but was too lazy or distracted to undergird my conviction. Having said that, I'm struck by the way these two words have long been been used to enthrall us to a particular unrealistic, impossible to achieve perspective. Which is why we're where we are now: almost overcome by nonsense.

@a.nonimus6705

11 ай бұрын

Well said

@shawnaweesner3759

11 ай бұрын

Well said!

Why the "White" part is so significant in the "white working class" is because these have largley been wholely neglected to the small beneift of minorities and immigrants. I also see that a lot of cultural influence is being mistaken or wrongly labelled as class issues by Malik. Example being the differences of Indian (largely Hindu) and Bangladeshi or Pakistani (Muslim) in academics. The difference I would argue is this is cultural influence not class.

In Germany the concept of "race" was completely out of fashion until the woke came up and reintroduced it. (Not that everything was good and fair but people kind of agreed that we are all shades of the same race. That's gone.)

@johnw574

11 ай бұрын

Basically most of the western world was the same. Now racism is weaponised to control people.

Using a corrupt institution like a union to fight against an imperfection in the market is worse than counterproductive.

@WeighedWilson

11 ай бұрын

Not if the goal is to move jobs overseas.

@peterwebb8732

11 ай бұрын

Not merely corrupt, but outright bullies. Note how Malik regrets that the Unions have lost the “right” to penalise those with whom they are not in dispute.

He just sounds like he's regurgitating what the race baiters say, but with more nuance

@MZ99698

11 ай бұрын

He writes for The Guardian so he will be

I became increasingly irritated during this interview, and then bored, and if he is an academic, then God help us. (I've read no books of his, in which he may be better.) Either he has a speech impediment, in which case I'd be sympathetic, or he is inarticulate, at least verbally, or he thinks slowly, or it is an affectation. Then, he's simply an unthinking Marxist; I've never heard such drivel about unions in this country. In theory, they have an important part to play, but in practice, they suffered from two problems; they gave a tool enabling a group to exercise greed, rather than better equality (e.g. print workers). Second, they were infiltrated by Marxists like this guy, who pursued interests other than those of their members, damaging the very industries on which all of us needed, not just the workers (automotive). Consequently, the country responded democratically and pragmatically.

I stopped paying attention as soon as he started talking about the names on resumes. Names are an indication of ethnicity. They're cultural, not racial, even if people like to conflate them a lot. Do minorities with English names have the same issue? I suspect not.

@zeldagoblin

11 ай бұрын

And the reference to disproportionate numbers of black men killed by cops in the USA, which is, in fact, far from the truth. His use of the word disproportionate was so incorrect, when in fact, after controlling for proportion, far more white men are killed.

@grannyannie2948

11 ай бұрын

And names, unlike ethnicities are choices. This point struck me at the time. Our black indigenous cannot ussually be determined by their name. So as you say it is cultural, not a matter of skin colour.

@mrror8933

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, his point isn't even verifiable and potentially disprovable. A French study found that job candidates with an ethnic minority background were even more disadvantaged by employers when their CVs were anonymous.

@gg_rider

11 ай бұрын

In the mid-1960s, Black radical parents begin to give their kids real African names or fake African names. One KZreadr goes by Gen'Quavious as a joke, and a Black woman named Patricia has different parents with a different mindset from a Black woman named Shaniqua.

Malik is one of the architects of this diversity chaos we're currently experiencing.

@MZ99698

11 ай бұрын

When he said he got beat up every single day at school I was immediately slightly dubious. No kid gets beaten up 5 days a week, you wouldn’t make it through school.

@mattball3118

11 ай бұрын

​@@MZ99698I think he said got into a fight, not beat up. That's very different.

@ablestationfoxtrot8037

11 ай бұрын

​@@mattball3118lol

@mattball3118

9 ай бұрын

@@DM-ur8vc Yeah you can totally look at an elderly man and tell what they were like at school, everyone knows that.

He had me mostly until he muttered nonsense about two child limit on benefits. Personal responsibility also needs to be a thing. Its so easy to get contraception in this country. Use it if you cant afford more kids.

@johnw574

11 ай бұрын

We are critically short of kids in this country and have way too many old people to take care of. Increase benefits for parents and increase the retirement age.

@shelleyphilcox4743

11 ай бұрын

​@@johnw574People who have physical jobs cant sustain that kind of labour in older years, that's not practical solution to the problem. However, people used to be able to work part time in their teens and work places used to train and support ongoing education...now 50% are in full time education till they are 21 or beyond. I also think people should take personal responsibility for the number of children they can realistically support, and making yourself poor by having a lot of children but wanting other people to support them by deliberate decision rather than some kind of personal disaster like illness, injury or death of a partner which dramatically changes things...or even irreparable breakdown of a relationship, is irresponsible and inappropriate. There is an argument to make that those that have children are producing workers for the future everyone needs, from plumbers to surgeons, and that's why we all pay for schooling, medical costs etc whether we have children or not, but there should be a reasonable balance of what costs are personal decisions and should not have to be paid for by others who do not have children or limit their families so they are not state dependent.

@jayjaydubful

11 ай бұрын

I find the two child limit difficult because I agree with your point on knowing the limits of your own finances. And of not encouraging people to live outside of those limits. But then should we punish children for the choices of their parents. And what if children were had when someone was in better circumstances but those circumstances changed

Racism and culture are very difficult to separate. If I had a predominantly white female workforce and a very loose dress code for the workplace, then that would affect my filtering process when I came across a male Muslim-sounding CV. Whilst that may be 'unfair', to some, we are only human, and we are heavily influenced by cultural values, that is not racism, it's being pragmatic.

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

As regards pragmatism, one woman I spoke to recently said she prefers to choose older women for her predominantly female workforce because younger ones are more likely to take time off if their children get sick. In many organisations there are even parent days which basically means parents get more paid leave simply because they're parents and there are times their child(-ren) may need them. So take it as holiday would be my suggestion if I was an employer. . I'm sure many people would see it as discrimination and be horrified but people are paid to work not to look after their kids

@michealfreeman9714

11 ай бұрын

​@@catscan2022but we should want to take care of people with families. They are the ones raising our future.

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

@@michealfreeman9714 being parents doesn't necessarily make them better people. There are some who have never done a days work in their life but still have no time for their kids. Why should other people pay for their offspring? I'm told it's because those kids are our future Dr's teachers, etc. Yeah but they could also be our next harold Shipman, peter Sutcliffe, Robert Thompson or John venables. Not all kids grow up to be useful members of society

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

@@BonusHole just as long as you'd be happy to spend a long time paying for their maternity leave. The "benefits" would probably be outweighed by the time spent away from work once they start breeding

In spite of claiming independent talent, thought & income, he has fully acquired the whiny corporate managerial accent that’s a characteristic of the ascendant midwit neo-elites. How does one acquire this accent other than by listening to it with admiration.

@fredneecher1746

11 ай бұрын

Good observation! He sounds like a lawyer trying to wheedle out something positive about a client who is obviously guilty.

Konstantin and Francis always do such beautiful interviews. Yes, beautiful. They both are always soulfully present, kind, curious, open-hearted, intelligent, wise and thoughtful - and give their guests wonderful opportunities to go deep and explore the human condition and allow something precious to unfold. Some of the commentators here seem dismissive of this conversation suggesting a preference for sound bites or quick witticisms...however the immersive nature of this content is nourishing in a way that expands appreciation for nuance and complexity that breaks down the shallow walls of separation.

@BonusHole

11 ай бұрын

Soulfully present? 🤣🤣🤣

There are some reasonable points but I'm getting a wolf in sheeps clothing vibe.

One of the best Triggernometry episodes. Although I don't always agree with Kenan 100%, he always makes me think and doesn't serve up the same talking points about wokeness and the far right, which I think Francis and Konstantin sometimes struggled with. I only wish you could have got him to discuss free speech and the impact of the Rushdie affair on society

@ajb7786

11 ай бұрын

Would you feel somehow inferior if this wasn’t one f the best episodes? Why do you need to tell yourself in order to avoid felling like a sucker?

What this man does not take into account is that when he was growing up we had probably just come out of a very bloody war and there was a feeling of "looking after our own". In other words the indigenous white English population so when he was looking for a job, etc. there was a feeling of "the Brits first". A quite natural feeling thinking of what we had gone through and the amount of bloodshed we had suffered. We wanted to make sure "The British" survived !! I resent and am appalled at your inference that we were "racist".

Whenever I have to fill in the box for “Race” on a form, I fill in ‘human’.

@j.harrison6744

11 ай бұрын

Cringe.

@MZ99698

11 ай бұрын

I put 100 metres

Mr malik is a few years older than i am, so i clearly remember how racist it was back then, but what Mr Malik did not mention was that a lot of Pakistani and Indian families did not want their children to mix with the local white kids. I had an Indian girlfriend, her parents hated me and her brothers wanted to fight me just because i was white, we broke up. I currently live in Mumbai and I have to say that Indians are much more racist, bigoted etc... than people from the UK. IM sick of hearing about racism from people like Malik, maybe he should venture out into the world and he will realise how tolerant the UK is unlike almost all other countries outside of Europe and the USA.

And… you already lost me bro 😵‍💫 so George Floyds death was racial? I suggest some more basic research bout police black “killings” in America

@ssp4795

11 ай бұрын

first the tired trope about "names on resumes" and then the Saint Floyd comment.

@patriciasanderson2171

11 ай бұрын

Yes he’s strikingly misinformed.

Nothing really new here. A little sycophant-y in the questions. Seems like a book plug. Not your best and also not terrible.

Give that man a glass of water

@cbashe

11 ай бұрын

he's got one in front of him, I was sweating just watching him sweating

@ssp4795

11 ай бұрын

my god, i was listening to this as a podcast and it was driving me nuts, so i came here hoping that watching it would be better. nope. I really struggled to listen to this one, for many reasons.

@Trail717

11 ай бұрын

I thought I was going mad, listening to the lip smacking and mouth noises as he spoke. Driving me nuts.

@ssp4795

11 ай бұрын

@@Trail717 they interviewed another guy recently who said "you know" about 1 million times. I think that was worse (and he was kinda smug)

@ilcuzzo12

11 ай бұрын

@@Trail717 it was distracting. You're not crazy

The advent of A.I. has fundamentally changed the game as far as unionisation is concerned, the more various sectors strike, the more it will incentivise the development of A.I. replacements. Consider the education sector, you could have one teacher to a class or... individual tutelage for each pupil by an A.I. teacher and one I.T. engineer could run an entire school. A.I. doesn't run out of patience, it doesn't get sick, it doesn't need holidays or a pension scheme. The technology is already there, trials are being run, I think it is only a matter of time. The government will be able to sell it as saving tax money, they might do some hand wringing, but ultimately as happened with the coal miners and the steelworkers, they will not protect those jobs. The teachers going on strike, would only accelerate what is already in motion. The litmus test for this whole process is going to be the writers strike taking place in the US now, how that is resolved will be a blueprint for what happens in other sectors.

I enjoy these conversations but I do wish the individuals would turn the situation around 180 degrees, as I'm sure in many other parts of the world not being from that Country would and possibly quite rightly be looked as a hinderance in getting Employment or Access to their Social System if they even have one.

I am just a few minutes in. I find it interesting that discussions on race are really only leveled towards Western European countries. Like the systemic racism in hiring practices. If you have a western or “white” name you will get hired. But if I am in India, or Nigeria, would they hire a name more familiar to them over mine who is from America? Are we saying that even an American black CEO or Indian CEO will prefer a John over a name that is more familiar to their culture?? We see these cultural barriers weaken then more we interact and integrate with each other. It takes time.

@shawny4400

11 ай бұрын

I think the name thing is more because of PC culture. Many recruiters are worried of being called racist. I've often had my name mispronounced because I lived in HK for 7 years. Never did I view it as discriminatory but the UK has gone mad

@iggle6448

11 ай бұрын

Calling him on what he imagines to be hiring practices in the UK. All responsible employers have long separated personal, identifying details from the experience/qualifications section which is the only part that the shortlisters/ interviewers get. Only skank employers would keep an application together.

@machtnichtsseimann

11 ай бұрын

Douglas Murray said recently on Piers' show similar to your point that only the most benevolent of nations, in the West, ( UK, USA, Canada ), ones to this day that stand against racism and continue to deal with any inward sins along those lines, are called out for "r*cism". Why not other nations, i.e. in Asia, Latin America, Africa? The bias and Leftist-infused bias is clear.

@Brandon-fv5sm

11 ай бұрын

@@machtnichtsseimann I have seen that segment and it did also cross my mind.

@grannyannie2948

11 ай бұрын

This struck me as well, that we are the only culture not allowed to give preference to our own.

In America, What determines the number of deadly police encounters is driven by a suspect s activity in violent felonious crimes involving deadly weapons such as guns and knives. Not all demographic groups engage in these crimes in equal proportion. The leading cause of death for black men age 17- 35 is homicide, not at the hands of the police but of the same demographic.

Hmmmm… was expecting more pushback from KK and FF on this.

@patriciasanderson2171

11 ай бұрын

Yeah maybe they are knackered and bored.

I agree with the ideas of this discussion, but every time we discuss race in the United States at least, I think we need to discuss the reality of "Sundown" towns that still exist to this day.

@Covers-and-Commentary

11 ай бұрын

exactly!!! Race in America is a different beast and everything needs to be brought up. The fact that we are still finding out about black towns being destroyed and massacres that happened that they conveniently leave out of history books. All that matters yet we are supposed to pretend it never happened?

@williambranch4283

11 ай бұрын

There are lots of places in the US I would never go at night.

@reddirtwalker8041

11 ай бұрын

Have an example of a town and how they accomplish this? I ask because I looked at supposed list of Sundown Towns in my State and I am intimately familiar with many towns on the list and they are not Sundown Towns by any stretch.

@cxa011500

11 ай бұрын

@@reddirtwalker8041 Is your state Texas? Look up the story about the Black farmer in Texas being harrased by White neighbors. He said he went to the police and they told him that maybe he should just leave. He said himself that his family lived near a "sundown" town.

@machtnichtsseimann

11 ай бұрын

Never heard nor seen anything concrete regarding "Sundown" towns. Not saying there isn't any reality to such, but vague and sloppy statements do not on their face prove r*cism and/or the specific "unspokenness" of such injustices. BTW: There are many cities/towns that a White would not visit at night in the U.S. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

As someone who lived through the tumultuous industrial action during the 1970s I am very thankful that trade unions no longer have the power to disrupt public life as they did back then.The industrial disruption during the 1970s and early 1980s was trade union power gone mad; they were trying to show that they ruled the country and not the elected government be it Tory or Labour. Society today is less fair, but I would rather have society that can function, even if unfair, than one that is staggering from one industrial crisis to another. Giving the kind of powers back to trade unions that Mr Malik suggests would be a recipe for economic disaster which would only make life harder for every working person.

Poverty mostly comes from a tendency towards transgressive atttudes, rejection of authority and other poor life choices, matey.

@alexedgar6539

11 ай бұрын

And a lot of that is precious. Poverty stalks me but I have non commercially applicable creativity. So as a white South African from upper middle class I have been desperately poor and we'll off in turns and lived amongst all "races'. But every time I open my mouth online everyone who is not 'white' in South africa imagines I've never been in their shoes economically. Racial identity is destroying us from the inside out. Even though I am so so privileged still, it is not the way.❤ ✊💚

@alaakela

11 ай бұрын

And having earned wages taxed higher than interests. The view that all you have to do is work hard and have good attitude to make it in life is rather 20-30 years old. The financialization of markets made this worldview outdated.

Daniel Chandler would be a very interesting guest to bring on this platform. Just finished his book Free & Equal and it answers a lot of the complex questions discussed on this show.

As an American, I am not well-suited to comment on social issues in the UK. But I am qualified to discuss social issues in the US. The 1990's book, The Bell Curve, documented differences in academic performance along race and ethnic lines. I do not believe that those differences are genetic, but rather cultural and social. The poorest performing groups are the black and Hispanic groups, who are trapped in the poorest neighborhoods and lowest-performing school systems in the largest numbers. For that reason, I fully support charter schools and school vouchers which give concerned parents access to improved schools. Because the teachers' unions view these options as threatening and fight them vociferously, the teachers' unions are the biggest enemies of these students. If there is systemic racism in the US, the teachers' unions embody the concept. Although I identify as a conservative, I submit that categorizing the adult population into left and right groups is about as useless as categorizing people by skin color or ethnic background.

@j.harrison6744

11 ай бұрын

Cart before the horse, syndrome. Culture and society don't just fall from the sky and affect behaviour. They're products of human activity. Human activity is rooted in genetics. As is everything involving humans from their health, height, hair colour, eye colour and intelligence. A smart, genetically high-IQ population will produce a high-trust, safe, orderly society. The opposite will not. To say that cognitive activity has nothing to do with genes is basically saying evolution and Darwinism stops at the neck.

Thanks @Triggernometry for posting this video about affirmative action / supreme court. Here are the viewpoints expressed by Supreme Court justices regarding affirmative action. 1) This case is about a group called Students for Fair Admissions (SFFA) who sued Harvard College and the University of North Carolina (UNC). They said that these schools were not fair in their admissions process because they were using race as a factor, which they believed was against the law. The law they referred to is the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment*. 2) The Equal Protection Clause is a part of the Fourteenth Amendment that says that every person should be treated equally by the law, no matter their race, color, or nationality. The SFFA believed that by considering race in admissions, Harvard and UNC were not treating all applicants equally. 3) The Court looked at the history of the Fourteenth Amendment and how it has been used in the past. They also looked at how other cases involving race and college admissions were handled. They found that while diversity in a student body can be a good thing, it must be handled in a way that treats all applicants fairly and equally. 4) The Court also looked at the idea of "strict scrutiny*". This is a way for the courts to look at laws to see if they are fair and necessary. If a law or policy is found to be unfair or unnecessary, it may not pass strict scrutiny and could be considered unconstitutional. 5) The Court found that the admissions systems at Harvard and UNC did not pass strict scrutiny. They said that the schools' use of race in admissions was not clear or specific enough, and it resulted in fewer admissions for certain racial groups. They also said that the schools' use of race in admissions seemed to stereotype certain racial groups, which is not allowed. 6) The Court also said that the schools' admissions systems did not have a clear end point. This means that there was no clear plan for when the schools would stop using race as a factor in admissions. This was another reason why the Court said the schools' admissions systems were not fair. 7) The Court decided that the admissions systems at Harvard and UNC were not fair and did not follow the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. They said that the schools' use of race in admissions was not clear, specific, or fair enough to be allowed. 8) However, the Court also said that schools can consider how race has affected an applicant's life. They can look at how an applicant's experiences with their race have shaped them and what they can bring to the school because of those experiences. 9) In the end, the Court decided that the admissions systems at Harvard and UNC were not fair and did not follow the law. They said that the schools' use of race in admissions was not allowed because it was not clear, specific, or fair enough. 10) So, the Court decided that the SFFA was right. They said that Harvard and UNC were not treating all applicants equally in their admissions process, which is against the law. They said that the schools needed to change their admissions systems to be fair to all applicants, no matter their race. *The Equal Protection Clause is a part of the Fourteenth Amendment that says that every person should be treated equally by the law, no matter their race, color, or nationality. *Strict scrutiny is a way for the courts to look at laws to see if they are fair and necessary. If a law or policy is found to be unfair or unnecessary, it may not pass strict scrutiny and could be considered unconstitutional.

while i agree that class analysis is important, what about those cases when it doesn't address issues? for example, there are stats showing that black upper and middle classes in the US have some of the same outcomes as poor and working-class black people. how does a class analysis address those disparities?

The first question Konstantin asked "How can we fix this?" The answer is so fkin easy. Stop talking about race, start talking about class. The conversation is dominated by the bourgeoise, though, so it won't happen...

The reason the tories don't do anything about class is because they believe in individualism and the individual should make the effort to "better themselves" which often means leaving roots behind to chase money and status elsewhere.". If they can't or won't then as far as tories are concerned they only have themselves to blame

@edwardkeirle4453

11 ай бұрын

In a governmental context, individualistic ideology should lead to creating/enabling accessible pathways to personal success. The tories tend to set the rungs of the ladder too far apart, which prevents people from taking the next step on their personal journey. Open access to high quality adult education, for example, would be a good type of individualist policy. It's there and available, but it down to you to make use of it.

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

@@edwardkeirle4453 but depends whether people have spare cash to plough into such a scheme which may not change their circumstances one iota. And whereas a number may become more "socially mobile", the low paid low silled/unskilled jobs still need to be done (if not by socialism climbers than by the less ambitious)

@edwardkeirle4453

11 ай бұрын

@catscan2022 I was thinking more on the lines of something government funded. It's not direct support in the way of financial payments, but helps people to build out their skill set if they wish to. It wouldn't necessarily need to be really heavy stuff - a lot of people would benefit from basics such as personal finance management, critical thinking/analysis skills, very basic management theories etc

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

@@edwardkeirle4453 given that both tory and labour are in favour of tuition fees for higher education rather than grants i doubt they would be in favour of providing any other sort of assistance either even if that means just providing resources. The whole ethos of an individualistic society is that its every man for himself and if people don't have the capital, the wherewithall or the ability to improve their circumstances themselves then tough which explains why we have so many homeless people living on the streets

He says he disagrees with Francis’s assessment of BLM even though that statement was written by the organisation, on their own website. This is why I can’t take half these people seriously. Did he even bother to do any research or is he just plucking things out of thin air.

This guy comes in with the most staid, mainstream microwaved takes imaginable, you hear the same stuff all day on any BBC or Sky show, news or not and *this* is who you've been excited, wetting your pants expectant to talk to?

Does this guy want a high five? Theres nothing new here at all.

He said that the Right considers differences in race are a BIOLOGICAL reality and that policies should be related to that. Strong disagree that this is Right wing. That is a Left wing smear of the Right.

I wanted to enjoy this conversation much more than i did. Some really unique points were made by him but i found KM's way of talking longwinded and complex. I felt even the hosts were struggling at times to get what he was saying.

@CowHorace

11 ай бұрын

He is super knowledgeable, he just sucks at speaking, maybe it's nerves.

@tplon63

11 ай бұрын

@@CowHorace agreed re his intellectual. That last point on 'what we're not talking about' was unique and relevant. I hope he writes a book about it.

The idea of racism is just a continuation of the good guy/bad guy story. Rather than changing how we think we spend hours discussing the idea with each person who writes a book or speaks on the present day ideology. Moving racism into inequality is a refusal to accept that the lie of “ free markets” is the fundamental issue behind inequality…. Inequality has many layers and we are all in the same boat,,, unless you are the royal family of GB you are poor and live in an unequal society. However could it be that in fact it is understandable that some people will have more than others but that what we need to work towards is a society rich in health, happiness and love for our own humanness and other humans.

Well, why is to that people who advocated economic equality lost credentials and influence?Isn’t it correlated with the abject failure of the socialists and communists and regimes aiming at economic equality everywhere, the extent of which became quite apparent for everybody to see…

Unions as constituted today are not about anything more than anti-capitalism

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

Nah. They're still about the rights of the workers and for maintaining the terms and conditions already set down but those terms and conditions are slowly being eroded. Seems to be a case now, as in lockdown, when people were virtually forced to have the vaccine if they wanted to keep their job, that people either accept the new terms and conditions or they're out. Unions seem powerless to do anything

I suspect few European Settlers went to North America with the idea of subjugating the cultures of the indigenous populations high in their minds. Yet they completely changed the culture of North America to suit their European outlook. I suspect few people coming to the UK from Pakistan have the idea of subjugating the culture of the Indigenous English high in their minds. It would just be nicer for them if England was culturally & religiously more like Pakistan. We are in the way. I was disheartened that at the end, he made it clear he thinks that Europe should accept anyone coming from anywhere & upending our culture. If we don't like that idea we are bad.

He is on record for saying Suella Braverman's immigration views are "odious". Trigger never challenged him, very disappointing. Smells of ctrld opp.

@j.harrison6744

11 ай бұрын

Spot on.

His books: " The meaning of Race" and "The quest for a moral compass" are really fascinating in their exploration of these issues and is say he's far more eloquent and persuasive in print than he was here.

@j.harrison6744

11 ай бұрын

Malik is an anti-white racist and one of the architects of this diversity chaos we're currently experiencing. Like Trevor Phillips, he's now trying to cover his tracks.

I like the way the subtitles refer to yer man as "Constantine Kitten"!

You can see how much this man is into the subject if his book with how he goes into it and skips his own introduction nearly completely.

That was a good conversation until the end. He gave no example of how telling other countries to not export there excess population to the EU in any way road rough shod over their rights. While the EU might be belatedly deciding that it doesn't want to be over run and become majority Muslim. The UK continues to pursue hyper immigration polices and doesn't seem to much care if people come here lawfully or unlawfully. It doesn't seem to much care if we are importing people who have committed heinous crimes in housing people whom we don't even know who they are in hotels in the heart of our communities.

Right. For starters history has told us that throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it. Handing out tax payers money, hand over fist, to families who decide they want 6 children doesn't work, it didn't work. What we HAVE learnt is, the more people get for free the more they want. Prime example was lock down. We had families who couldn't work, through no fault of their own, having to live off of 80% furlough money. The "poor" who claim benefits, housing, council tax grants, shopping vouchers, free prescriptions, free eye tests and glasses, free dental care, thought "well these people are getting free money wheres ours?", and god knows why but their benefit money went up by £20 a week. All socialists, like this man, want is for people to be reliant on the government tit to look after them. The problem is he wants to paint it as equality and fairness. Its not equality and fairness when you've got a working family, who can only afford one child, financially propping up a non working family who decided its their right to have 6 children. This man fails to realise the government have no money. The left are really good at mentally separating themselves from the ACTUAL people who pay for everything. They are really good at using the term "government" when they really mean the tax payer

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

I disagree with the notion that what socialists want is for the state to look after people. That seems to be what the term socialism now seems to mean to governments that just hand free money to people but that isn't the general idea. A more fair income distribution is what a true socialist would strive for - not benefits which just turns people into charity cases (that's more a right wing way to view people)

@fredneecher1746

11 ай бұрын

@@catscan2022 That is correct. Socialists want to see a broader spread of the material benefits of society across the population, seeing classical capitalism as the barrier to this. The fact that the state can be utilised to botch up a partial solution, via benefits and subsidies, is appealing to those who don't like the idea of the root-and-branch overthrow of capitalism. But yes, it is the 'fairer' (is it really?) distribution of material benefit that socialists aim for, not state control per se.

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

@@fredneecher1746 the extreme left would be inclined to opt for authoritarian measures hence cancel culture but the moderate left are more concerned with less economic inequality not through benefits but through proper paid employment. It makes sense to do this as desperate people would be less inclined to turn to crime or drink/drugs which has a knock on effect on the rest of society. And gving benefits as opposed to paid employment with a purpose causes resentment among others Having said that the way technology and ai is increasing is leading to people who already have jobs losing them added to which we continue to have large numbers of migrants so it does look as though the benefits system is only likely to grow and with fewer people in the workforce where is the money going to come from to continue to pay people to do nothing?

@killermonjero

11 ай бұрын

Even if your definition of what a true socialist wants is true, that's still a bad thing.

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

@@killermonjero its still a bad thing? Really? When poverty can lead people to take drugs/drink, lack a sense of purpose and can lead to crime. It all costs taxpayers more and can threaten security. People who are content do not resort to burgling other peoples property or harm people becsuse they are resentful

Kenan complained about lumping everyone in convenient categories but was doing it himself by using the term working-class. Why was it not defined? I can’t accept that London Underground drivers who earn more than teachers are working-class for instance. “Workers” has become an emotive term since it conjures up thoughts of poverty and therefore when used distorts the discussion.

Equality is irrelevant if everyone is poor

Wasn’t sure what to expect from Kenan, but he made some valid points. Pleasantly surprised.

@j.harrison6744

11 ай бұрын

He sees which way the wind is blowing and he's trying to cover his tracks. Read his early articles and watch his documentaries. He's an anti-white bigot in progressive clothing.

How have I just discovered this interview??? I quoted Kenan's book "From Fatwa to Jihad" in my university dissertation (2014). Very cool fellow.

We don't talk about economic inequality because on some level, we blame people for their poverty. If only they would educate themselves or work harder or save/spend wiser. It's almost a moral failing. Get educated. Don't smoke, drink, or do drugs. Work hard. Don't sleep around and have babies out of wedlock that you can't afford. Maybe minorities are poorer than the majority. I don't know. Asians in America are doing well, but some say that it's a cultural thing or maybe that poor Asians can't afford to leave Asia. Some say that intelligence can predict economic outcome, and I could see that to an extent. If you are born with a physical or intellectual disability, your job opportunities may be limited. I've seen some smart poor people, and I've wondered what happened. I don't think poverty discriminates. You can't fix poverty. You can improve some things for society though. Clean potable water and sanitation, good roads, good schools, and accessible quality food will go a long way to improving society. The people in Flint, Michigan or rural Appalachia would agree. Too bad our society is fighting over education. Can we at least agree that people need to be able to read, write, and do basic math? In my ideal world, we would teach kids critical thinking skills and to be able to teach themselves anything. You can't make everyone equal because humans aren't born equal. I'll never be a ballerina or play basketball or write fantastic mathematical equations. And frankly, there are some people who just love to lord their wealth, intelligence, or whatever "betterness" over others. There are those who feel better putting other people down. There's petty jealousy. The best we can do is focus on improving society. Thoughts?

It’s not that difficult to go out on strike….we’ve had non stop strikes of Teachers, Doctors, Nurses, Lawyers, Train Drivers, Baggage Handlers, etc all year long.

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

It might not be difficult to strike but it's often ineffective hence the length of time these strikes have lasted. Well over a year for some professions

@catscan2022

9 ай бұрын

@@DM-ur8vc there are loads atm. Junior doctors, nurses, railway workers. Not sure whether barristers, civil servants and postal workers settled their disputes but i think university staff are still striking intermittently as well

@catscan2022

9 ай бұрын

@@DM-ur8vc no theyre ineffective because mps dont need to rely on public services themselves so dont give a toss whether theyre operating. As fsr as theyre concerned the longer they leave it the more people will lose sympathy (assuming they had any in the first place) with the strikers. Its all a step forward to nudging peeople to accept privatization as the answer then the govt can wash their hands altogether

@catscan2022

9 ай бұрын

@@DM-ur8vc not sure about govt having no control over private companies as some occupations like lawyers and house builders seem to be doing very well at the taxpayers expense ATM. Even bus fares are at an all time low round this neck of the woods so they must be getting some sort of subsidy from the govt. Farmers likewise are notorious for getting subsidies. Meanwhile councils are set to follow Birmingham and go bankrupt. If there's no profit to be made these days then you're of no use to the govt. Service comes a very poor second. I wouldn't have thought that many mps need to rely on public service at all except perhaps for rail which is no doubt why they keep calling for it's renationalisation.

There is only one race, the human race. We are all shades of brown, my father was born and raised in Kolkata and had darker brown skin and married my mother, a Lancashire lass, who had very light brown skin and couldn’t get a tan. I happened to be born with my father’s slight Indian frame and my mother’s blonde hair and very light white skin. Brown lives matter.

I agree with a lot of points. I always find it bizarre how race is prioritized over social status where it comes to policies that suppose to address inequality. if you make policies based on social status then same exact people from those racial minorities would get assistance given that their social status is lower and they would receive more help than less disadvantaged groups. Like you dont need to make it about race to help minorities.

Socialism, in the old-fashioned, class-based British sense of the word, can work and did work for several decades in Britain. But it can only work in a relatively hermetic society, where the struggle or negotiation takes place between class interests within the specific society itself. If you add global aspects, such as wide-ranging EU integration or economic immigration, otherwise known as asylum, the social class solidarity to maintain socialism wanes as the social benefits achieved over generations turn into a magnet for people from multiple societies where those social benefits are totally absent.

@catsandcrows8880

11 ай бұрын

100%!

Great lead in guys!

Thank you for a most interesting discussion One thing came to my mind as I was listening …is just to go with a thought experiment that will help me get the bottom of the definition of racism: The thought experiment is as follows: Suppose for a moment that the reverse is the case.. and that the influential, economically strong majority of the society is all African and / or Indian and or middle eastern etc.. and that the white man is in the minority in that society; the European( so called race) is the poor, the refugees and the economically disadvantaged and that a member of those white people applies for a job but they favour above him or her someone from their culture and colour.. and their favouritism is based on their perception that they are maintaining social cohesion and preserving their traditions where they believe it makes it easier to live in a more socially coherent in their society to promote a ground where belonging is too complex to maintain otherwise?? How is being racial then is to be defined ? ??

@ssp4795

11 ай бұрын

the funny thing is: white people are the minority group on planet earth.

indians aint coming from middle class families. maybe slightly more. but the real difference is religion. hindus and sikhs let their daughters/wives work much more so.

0:06: 📚 The book 'Not So Black and White' explores the paradox of contemporary society's abhorrence of racism while still categorizing people by race. 6:42: 😔 The rise of identitarianism is largely negative and stems from a decline in the broader sense of social change possibilities. 15:04: 📢 Black sanitation workers in New Orleans went on strike in early 2020, demanding better wages, equipment, and the right to unionize, but their demands were not met despite the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement. 23:17: 😕 The speaker discusses the lack of discussion about economic inequality and the separation of politics and economics in relation to race and progress. 29:53: 🗣 The speaker discusses the reduction of racism to the concept of white privilege and the consequences of this perspective. 41:08: 🗣 The view of racial communities as homogeneous groups has been disastrous, as it ignores the diversity within these communities and perpetuates conservative voices as representative. 45:28: 🗣 The conversation is not honest and lacks discussion of all facets of the problem, leading to a failure in problem-solving. 52:26: 👥 The removal of restrictions on trade unions is necessary to defend the rights and interests of working-class people. 59:53: 🌍 We need to have a better understanding of how immigration policies are changing the geography of the world. 1:07:11: 🌍 The EU's immigration policies have created a kidnap and detention industry, trampled over the rights and sovereignty of poorer countries, and prioritized EU migration over the interests of their own people and economies. Recap by Tammy AI

I really enjoyed this interview and more so, I respect the different perspectives that you present on this channel. That said, I could not disagree more about unions being "disempowered".

@catscan2022

11 ай бұрын

Depends on the union and the ability to get the job dome regardless. If another company can supply goods or services then union action won't help one bit. Changing lawss can also cripple union power. And the fact that a number of unions have been striking intermitently for over a year also suggesta a lack of real power

@fredneecher1746

11 ай бұрын

Objectively speaking, trade unions have lost much of their social power and relevance, certainly in manufacturing. Much of that is because we have also lost most of out manufacturing base ("lost" is being kind). Today's unions may cause annoying disruption, but they no longer have political clout. Whether that's good or bad depends on your political stance.

"I'm not a black actor, I'm an actor." - Idris Elba.

All he seems to be saying is the same as the conclusions of the government’s Race and Disparities report.

45:35 It is a question of honesty. If only some statistics are talked about in the media while others are obscured and unheared of, that is a question oh honesty. When you only provide certain information to the public to advance your agenda, it is very much a question of honesty. These statistics are related, and should be brought up and talked about more often and in relation to each other.

"In most societies there is an abhorrence to racism." Bullshit. Only in "woke" times. Tribalism is a NORMAL, unavoidable, Human reaction related to survival. We might try to mitigate that reaction, out of courtesy, in times where there is not a high perceived threat, but the feeling WILL come to the surface in times of stress.

38:24 This guy needs to read Roland G. Fryer's Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force.

“He said on Twitter last October: “Braverman, Patel, etc do not have odious views simply on immigration. They have equally odious views on welfare, workers’ rights, etc.” “They are rightwing Tories and their views, like those of white rightwing Tories, on all these issues are shaped by their broader ideology.””

women are more likely to be hired in stem with equal cv's tho.

Jesus, there was literally a moment where Konstantin had to finish his sentence for him. Why did he appear so nervous? He was sweating bullets. It was like he was being interrogated by the KGB. You can see why he writes for The Guardian 🙄

@JoshYenne

11 ай бұрын

oh he writes for the Guardian? okay that explains somethings for sure...

When we adopt policies that prioritize color diversity what we do is dilute the efficacy of the experts in all fields of study because we care more about having an equality of skin color in the workplace than we do about the skill levels of the people doing the job itself. This scares me quite a lot particularly in the medical industry. Wouldn't you care more about the skill of the doctor operating on your child or mother than whether or not the person is a member of a minority group that got the job instead of a white person?

So funny I think things have reversed if you are Asian it is a plus point, being white british as a minus point!😂

Sorry guys. Great content but my misophonia wouldnt allow me to listen to the guests wet mouth. Sounds silly but the struggle is real

@ye4864

11 ай бұрын

I had the exact same feeling. Had to stop listening

@patriciasanderson2171

11 ай бұрын

I can’t unhear it now. Had to stop at 27 minutes and I’ve a feeling I’m not missing much.

You will never have economic equality, what does that even mean?

I wonder how much of the disproportion in hiring based on perceived race comes from actual racism vs how much comes from fear of being accused of racism. Thwre's a deep current of offence avoidance in the (modern?) british psyche that only becomes worse the more we agonise over an issue. We'd rather avoid all interaction with something than risk offence by saying or doing the wrong thing in public.

"Fire bombings and stabbings were routine, it would be RARE for me to come home from school without being in a fight" really? Where and when were firebombings and stabbings routine? When the day you didn't get in a fight were rare? Think about these assertions, do you recognise this place? Was the UK ever that violent towards people "routinely and daily"? The propaganda that foreigners are intrinsically valuable has warped our perception of what life was like. BLM were openly racist, inherent in their slogan, and the acronyms BAME and BIPOC are anti white. We can't decry racists anymore.

Kenan Malik's message seems very crude and somewhat repetitive. I was expecting better. He wants to return to 1970s socialism when, as he puts it, the "trade unions were strong". Firstly, how is the Woke obsession with race and identity trumped by a socialist obsession with class and class IDENTITY? How it any less tribal and ultimately destructive? This isn't to say that there aren't any problems with class inequalities. It's just that old-style socialism wasn't and isn't a solution. Also, Malik is factually wrong on some issues. In the 1970s, the working class was poorer than in was in the (late) 1980s and beyond. Of course, it isn't that simple. There was 3, million unemployed in the early 1980s, etc. But was socialism and trade-union power an automatic solution to all that? The working class still could afford more as a whole. Note that this isn't a denial of poverty of that some people are still poor. It's an attempt to put things in an historical context... Now is Malik making the classic leftwing mistake of conflating increasing inequality with the working class as a whole actually getting poorer? (Some working-class people may have become poorer in certain areas and for certain periods.) That isn't the case, and I don't know why people on the left can't get this fact into their heads. EVEN IF inequality increases, the poor can still be getting better off! Indeed, that has actually happened. This obsession with inequality means that even if the average working-class person were on £50,000 a year, but the "rich" still got richer by larger degree, then the Left would STILL focus on that inequality. Why? Because Socialists stress "relative inequality". So what's the message here? That we should have an absolute equality as enforced and insured by the state?... If Malik's position is more subtle or sophisticated than that, then it doesn't seem so by what he actually says.

@iggle6448

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for your analysis. Yes, that 'absolute equality', which is absolutely impossible, is what woke call 'equity' and it's what they're striving for.

@zeldagoblin

11 ай бұрын

This is a great post

@Archersrevenge

11 ай бұрын

Not to mention that that “strong socialist trade union” era of the 70’s coincided not so coincidentally with rolling blackouts and rubbish piling high in the streets due in large part to the frequent striking. We were branded “the sick man of Europe” and looked like we were on the backslide to destitution. Not sure how many working class people would be overly sold on their lot if you told them that’s what they were in for.

@paulaustinmurphy

11 ай бұрын

@@Archersrevenge So we must beware of this new "old socialism GOOD/new Wokism BAD" idea that's currently spreading around. Oddly enough, Amala Ekpunobi argued the same thing as Kenan Malik in another Trigger interview - just yesterday! She used the words (being American) "old-style Liberals and the old Left" and said that they weren't scared of debate, etc. This is false. At least when it comes to the "radical" or Revolutionary Left, and even when it comes to some "moderate" socialists.

Bell prof at Harvard Law faculty one of Obama's mentors at Harvard

Is it just me or can this guy not get his words out?!

@relly793

11 ай бұрын

He’s taking his time

@manusha1349

11 ай бұрын

​@relly793 nah, he can't articulate his ideas verbally on a public platform. Happens to most people these days. This is why I love listening to Christopher Hitchens and Douglas Murray