Thanks for watching - What do you think of this? - Be sure to check out my favorite enhanced outlet tester: amzn.to/3SQut5E - or my no frills dependable: amzn.to/3R6FheE

@nriqueog

6 ай бұрын

I like the idea of sideways outlets. But having ALL your outlets GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter outlets) should be the standard these days.

@user-cq6km9vq2m

6 ай бұрын

Installing ground side up is code in many states for commercial applications. I've never seen a wall plate rattle a plate screw out. If a metal plate is overtightened it will warp the plate. If a plastic plate is over tightened they used to break. if a metal plate has somehow rattled lose unplug the device. If the outlet is on something like a cart which is prone to rattling lose, locktight.

@EntropicTroponin

6 ай бұрын

If the metal plate rests on the ground, and the plate touches hot, the ground fault safety system should kick in. The other way around, with the plate shorting the hot and neutral, the breaker trips. The ground pin up installation is much more likely to touch the ground pin at all times due to it being the highest point, so it may be slightly more safe. The discussion is moot though. Metal face plates are just a bad choice, and the real solution is to switch to a connector that has inherent safety build in, like the European plug F. Good luck making the switch though.

@5Breaker

6 ай бұрын

Oh boy, I hope @TechnologyConnections doesn't watch this video.

@bryanteger

6 ай бұрын

You install receptacles. Outlets are the holes in the wall with the junction box and wires.

If your wall plates "randomly" fall off you have WAY more issues than an upside down outlet.

@DavidJohnson-xi7ds

6 ай бұрын

He addressed that in the video.

@ronb6182

6 ай бұрын

​@@DavidJohnson-xi7dsSo!

@ronb6182

6 ай бұрын

Plates are well secured in our local hospital that may be a home issues. Plastic plates are better and don't conduct electricity. Old screws on old plugs may not have that insulation piece on the plug and all screws are exposed and will short out on metal plates. Metal switch plates are worst you get zapped when you try to turn on or off a light in the winter the air is so dry static electricity is present and the voltage is over 80 volts a neon light tester lights up for a second. I hated them I removed the one in my bedroom and also used nylon screws so no more zap in my bedroom light. 73

@MoneyManHolmes

6 ай бұрын

Doctor: You have 72 hours to live. Me: Hey, can you check that screw on the wall plate behind my bed? Thanks.

@ronb6182

6 ай бұрын

@@MoneyManHolmes engineering already done that. At our local hospital if you bring in anything that requires power engineering must inspect it before it's allowed in the patient's room. I'm sure the plates are secured. Even in hospices rooms. 73

We need to get you into a collab with Technology Connections! He did an exhaustive rundown of this topic and, if I recall, he concluded flipping it upside _may_ provide some safety benefits, but so minor to be effectively pointless. This actually goes to show that cases where the facade is made of metal actually make the argument of it being far less safe.

@patricknelson

6 ай бұрын

p.s. I’m just thinking these metal plates are risky as can be. Maybe not worth the trade off unless they are coated to reset conductivity maybe.

@diogor420

6 ай бұрын

I was thinking the same thing!

@uploadJ

6 ай бұрын

re: "This actually goes to show that cases where the facade is made of metal actually make the argument of it being far less safe." Agree on this for sure.

@tcg1_qc

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, nowadays we have plastic that is strong enough to resist hits and abuse. Just use the same fiberglass reinforced plastic they use in power tools to make rugged plastic outlet plates

@Evercreeper

6 ай бұрын

I was here from that video

Retired electrician here. I get asked about this all the time. Some people, even electricians will swear to you that ground up is code. It was a proposed code change back in 1996 but it never made it into the code. The committee answer is that outlets have been installed safely in both orientations for many years, and there is no need to codify a certain orientation.

@mjc0961

6 ай бұрын

I wish they'd codify ground down so people stop with the ground up nonsense. :p Ground up doesn't help at all for plugs that have no ground prong, and as shown in this video, it just makes plugging in power supplies and flat/angled power cords a pain in the butt.

@jeffhardman8293

5 ай бұрын

Back in 96 our county inspector had us turn them ground up on a residential. A few jobs after that he said it did not matter.

Seems that it would make sense to use non-metallic cover plates. Great demonstration.

@dhawthorne1634

6 ай бұрын

We typically don't for residential, but commercial buildings typically have metal covers and many types of businesses such as mechanics and hospitals are REQUIRED to have metal covers. Working with what we've got, if you want to make it safer there should be a requirement that there is something plugged into the ground of both outlets to make tipping far less likely. Better still, require threadlock on the screws so they don't back out in the first place. That said, the safest alternative would be to start requiring outlets to have slightly deeper contacts and plugs to have about 3mm of insulating material along the blades/pins, even if just on the hots (split phase power having two hots for 240V circuits).

@stickyfox

5 ай бұрын

I've never even seen metal ones outside of an institutional structure like a hospital or school. The plastic ones are like 20 cents and match the walls.

In the past, metal plates were used in the kitchen and the bathrooms, and plates made of other materials were used everywhere else in the house. The ground plug is always down, unless it is on a switched outlet for a lamp or another reason. I'm 73 years old, and have never seen any outlet cover come loose for any reason. My Mom's house was built in 1959, and still has some of the original covers that have never been disturbed or come loose. Put the covers on correctly, and there will never be any problem like the ones you have made up for this video.

In every house I’ve owned, outlets were installed “ground down”. Except - in rooms with a switched outlet, these were mounted “ground up”, so you knew which one was switched.

@osgeld

6 ай бұрын

same in my huose, the only place they are ground up is if they are connected to a switch

@TheOtherOne111

6 ай бұрын

In my house the outlets are half-hot. The top receptacle is switched, the bottom is permanently powered.

@elultimo102

6 ай бұрын

@@TheOtherOne111 Why don't they do the "half-switched" outlets everywhere? ( except in kitchens or baths) Are they too cheap to get 12-3 wire?

@kevinmcgo

6 ай бұрын

@@elultimo102 there is an extra minor step involved that I guess some installers don't want to bother with.

@a9ball1

6 ай бұрын

I think it's the extra cost of the 12 gauge wire.

Code DOES require you to install electrical devices according to the manufacturers’ instructions, and all of the Leviton receptacle outlets I have seen have the top marked so that the grounds are on the bottom.

@SilverCymbal

6 ай бұрын

That is a very interesting point and you are 100% correct about those markings and the code. Great info to share!

@nogoa42

6 ай бұрын

I have only ever seen TOP on a switch, even Levitons website shows both orientation on their outlets.

@kenmore01

6 ай бұрын

I think it was Technology connections who mentioned that Legrand outlets have the text printed on them indicating Earth up is the correct orientation. I'm not sure if they ground you if you put it in the other way though.

@mikemacdonald2032

5 ай бұрын

Funny how when the ground was up the face plate just dangled there on te ground prong of the cord...therefore not being energized . So ground up for me.

@cameronbateau6510

5 ай бұрын

How come a code does require you to install electrical devices according to the manufacturer’s instructions?

I was a guest at a local ER a few weeks when I first noticed the 'upside down' outlets. Asked my retired nurse wife why they were like that, she didn't know. Now I do, thanks.

I'd say the safest orientation would be sideways with the neutrals up, particularly if both outlets are being used. That said, the safest alternative would be to start requiring outlets to have slightly deeper contacts and plugs to have about a 3mm of insulating material along the blades/pins, even if just on the hots (split phase power having two hots for 240V circuits).

Had this discussion with a friend that is a "Master Electrician" and me being an Electrical Engineer. He stated that having the ground pin up was "safer". I agreed initially, but kept thinking about the design of all the appliances and noticed that this seemed incorrect for all those reasons. Tripping the protection and de-energizing the circuit, though, wins this argument without further discussion. For those metal plates in hospitals that can come loose, use Lock-tite(TM) or thread-locker.

@mjc0961

6 ай бұрын

The biggest thing the "ground pin up is safer" clowns never consider is how many of our plugs don't even have a ground prong to begin with. The whole thing really makes no sense if you stop and think about it for a moment. Just install them ground down as intended so power bricks and strips work.

I use plastic outlet covers, so no issue there, but I like up side down so they look less like a face and therefore may be less apt for kids to want to poke them

@uploadJ

6 ай бұрын

Interesting point; involves human engineering as it relates to kid safety.

@k.b.tidwell

6 ай бұрын

^ Parent of the year.

Easy to solve the first problem by just using plastic receptacle covers. :-) My house was wired back in the 50's and the nut that did it made sure to orient outlets in every conceivable position. Even receptacles that are side by side, one might be up and the other down. smh

@bobcosgrove3235

6 ай бұрын

If your house was wired in the 50's chances are almost 100% none of your outlets are grounded at all. Grounds were not required in the NEC until 1971. You may have 3 prong outlets but unless you rewired the house those outlets are not grounded.

In all the Reddit debates I have seen about this no one has ever mentioned it might be a good thing to have the breaker trip immediately. Personally i use metal plates in the garage and vinyl in the house.

@markusaurelius4015

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, that was a really good point that I didn't think of and haven't heard before.

@griffmustard

6 ай бұрын

I was completely unaware that faceplates were so easy to come undone. Perhaps we should put a little locktite on the screw thread when installing.

@venom5809

6 ай бұрын

@@griffmustard Never had a plate come undone in my life. LOL

@uploadJ

6 ай бұрын

@@venom5809 Me neither. re: " Never had a plate come undone in my life. "

@john.f.chamberlain

6 ай бұрын

That's assuming it actually makes contact with both prongs though. If it only makes contact with the live, but not the neutral, you now have a wallplate that's live at 120v. If it's hanging on the ground, you don't have a live wallplate and even if it does swing over and touch a live wire when you come into contact with the plate, it'll still be hanging from the ground, so it'll trip the breaker.

I have an counter example you have not thought of. At a rental hall (hosting weddings, large meet ups) I saw many extension cords hanging down, get pulled down and that exposed the hot and neutral ALL the time. Besides the hazard of hot being exposed, it left the plug and cord loose, which then flickered often, and arced once. I convinced the board to replace the outlets, and when doing so had the ground positioned on top. Now when the extension cords are pulled down, the ground on top acting as the pivot point where it holds a tighter connection, so that it takes more force to pull the cord down. I see this as a safer situation, for straight plugs. Of course if ALL cords had flat-angled plugs, then we could end this mix-up..

@kevinwood7216

6 ай бұрын

I think you might have it mixed up... an outlet with the ground on the bottom will keep a chord in it sturdier than an outlet with the ground on the top however an outlet with the ground on the top is less likely to break off a ground prong when plug is pulled down and out away from the outlet

@ethernet01

6 ай бұрын

in my house I have commercial equipment that has 90° plugs that want the ground up, and some of my older cords were also all designed for ground-up also the ground prong has a far tighter grip and less leverage when it comes to keeping a plug tight, even better if you have any U-shaped grounds found on all non molded plugs, those do not pop out at all when forcing a cord down on a ground up outlet

@mjc0961

6 ай бұрын

We should just have better plug design, where the part of the prongs closest to the plug housing is insulated, so even if it comes lose, live prongs aren't exposed.

@ethernet01

5 ай бұрын

@@mjc0961 Japans connector standards actually altered our plug designs for just this

We have some installed ground up in our house. The builder told us it was to indicate one of plugs is meant for a lamp that is controlled by a switch.

@robertjoseph1592

6 ай бұрын

Yes, that is common practice in the USA over the past 30 years.

@zhongyuebo8871

6 ай бұрын

This

@mikezimmermann89

6 ай бұрын

@@robertjoseph1592 I was trained to install switched outlets this way in the 70s.

My grand mother lived in a 60's home. All of the outlets were installed this way. It was built to be an electrified "future home", so definitely predates the 90s.

@elliottpeabody1287

2 ай бұрын

Which way is "this way"?

Excellent perspective and demos as usual Chris.

Thanks for the video. I prefer the plastic covers, as they are nonconductive. All 3-prong plugs I have seen were mounted ground down, until I moved into my present home, where they are ground up. I have changed some to ground down to accompdate three prong cords and reduce strain on the wiring. I have yet to see a loose plug cover. I have seen broken and missing covers. Those I replace with plastic covers. I am seventy-six. I have worked on wiring and fuse boxes since eight. I am grateful for the good mentors I have had.

The conversation I understand is really straightforward. Ground down is a grounded outlet and upsidedown indicats the griund is not available. Important information for old construction that predates grounded outlets.

Your point is valid but all the ventilators I work with have battery backups and power disconnect alarms. Besides warning you for power loss it keeps a family or not so good friend from tripping over the cord and taking you out. 😮

@JoBo-ug6tf

6 ай бұрын

This exactly. I remember when my granddad was in the hospital - nearly 30 years ago - every piece of equipment hooked up to him had its own backup battery. Every time they moved him from his room they'd unplug everything and move it with him.

Chris, you do the best thought provoking, unexpected posts and I love them. The whole time I’m thinking “WTF I’ve never even thought about this” lol. Thanks for making me think today.

So the real issue is that some people don't seat the plug completely into the socket. Because, if you do, there is no gap exposing the plug blades.

@mjc0961

6 ай бұрын

Sometimes you step on a cord and it comes loose, sometimes the receptacle is worn and doesn't hold a plug correctly. But that's still user error. Plug it back in after you step on it, replace the receptacle if it's loose. And plug design should be changed so any part of the plug that may become partially exposed is insulated, so it wouldn't be live on a somewhat loose plug. Ground facing up is such a bad solution for any of this. Also - many cords don't even have a ground prong, so you literally are getting no benefit from ground up on such cords.

⚠️ WOW!, Thank You! I’m an old timer EE. My focus was mainly RF, but I paid my way through grad school by apprenticing with a journeyman electrician. I enjoyed it so much that I kept the job as a part-time career for the following 30 years LOL) The majority of the work was hospitals and public safety projects (police and fire hq buildings and remote communication shelters). ALL of that work was done “ground pin UP”, with the hope of a safer install. I never questioned it.. I them worked for Motorola, designing communications systems and other RF projects. (mostly mission-critical public safety or military gear) They actually mandate that traditional duplex receptacles NEVER be installed “upside down” for mission critical equipment installed in the field. I never questioned either method and really believed that “ground pin up”. did make sense. I am 100% convinced that I’d rather have a solid, low-resistance path (through a SS or metallic plate) to clear the fault than a human becoming that very path. So.. THANKS!

@cameronbateau6510

5 ай бұрын

How come all of that work was done with the hope of a safer install?

I remember seeing the exact opposite video years ago showing why it was much safer with the ground up, I didn't fall for it then and still don't. Like you showed, many of the flat plugs are designed to lay against the wall with the ground down. I see many refrigerators that have the outlet with ground up and the cord being bent 180°. But like others, in my 50 years of installing outlets, I have never had a problem with the cover falling off, but I'm sure 1 in a million it can happen.

Outstanding video... I finally feel vindicated in replacing all outlets in my house with ground down.... but was always wondering if that may (for some crazy reason) be backwards... but ground up just looked incorrect. This video is jam packed with awesome info. on pros/cons of the argument for ground up vs down!

My house was built in 1970 and when I bought it in 1998 all the outlets were upside down. Many were old and broken and all had layers of paint on them. Some had the ground hole blocked with paint. In addition, the panel is filled with 15 amp breakers but the house is wired with 12-guage. That makes replacing the receptacles a miserable experience. It's on the market now and I'm finally getting around to replacing the ones I never needed over the years. Now learning how many need to be GFCI.

As a commercial/industrial electrician, we are directed by our foreman and project managers on the direction the outlets will be installed. As long as the NEC and AHJ are followed, there aren't any rules about the direction you install it, so most of us just do as we do our directed and install them with the ground up. However, in my own house, all of my Outlets are installed with the ground down for the exact reason you just mentioned. I would much rather have the breaker trip immediately then remain energized and waiting for someone to touch the loose plate and potentially get electrocuted by the live circuit.

Thank you for this video. Some things we take for granted and never think about them.... until something like your video triggers a thought about those things.

I have found that as the cord falls downwards from the outlet, a ground on top configuration makes a better contact to the hot wire. I also only use plastic covers.

I remember getting into debates about this thirty plus years ago. Seemed to me the answer was conclusively decided (up to end user/installer) back then, and somewhat amused that this is considered to be a “debate”. There are many items in an electrical install left to the installer/client spec, often with more significant impact. Yet this one gets outsized attention, at least outside the trade.

Thank you so much. I've seen them both ways, but this makes a load of sense.

First off, the hospital should use loc-tite on that plate screw if it is always falling out. Second, I’ve never seen a outlet with the ground up until I moved to Texas 3 years ago. You are right about the plug wire orientation. Not good.

I found a few outlets in my house that were turned upside-down & couldn't figure why they did that. Thanks for clearing up that mystery.

@mogotti3

6 ай бұрын

In my house the ones that are upside down are connected to the light switches.

@akshonclip

6 ай бұрын

Those outlets are referred to as “half hots” and one portion of the outlet is switched.

Good advice... EXCEPT for 240V receptacles(outlets). Every 240V(sometimes labeled 220V) appliance cord I've ever seen has a flat plug with the ground lug on top and the cord exiting the bottom. Thus, installing the receptacle with the ground lug on bottom has the cord exiting upward and thus looping. Gravity over time eventually pulls the plug partially out of the receptacle at the top exposing the hot and neutral lugs. On top of that, 240V receptacles are often mounted in metal boxes or at least have metal faceplates. So it is best to install 120V receptacles with the ground on bottom and 240V receptacles with the ground on top.

Seems to me that the real problem is either the screw or having a metal plate. Ceramic/plastic plate and a tighter screw solves these problems entirely.

@emmettturner9452

6 ай бұрын

He described that they get beat up. Ceramic and plastic will crack.

@nickgooday7142

6 ай бұрын

It's just a bad design....

@LouisWilen

6 ай бұрын

@@emmettturner9452 Regular plastic can crack but nylon covers are very tough.

@uploadJ

6 ай бұрын

@@emmettturner9452 re: "Ceramic and plastic will crack." Carbon fiber composition, unless you are going to 'dive' to 'ocean depth' with it. /s

@tcg1_qc

6 ай бұрын

@@emmettturner9452 cheap plastic will, but not reinforced plastic

Very good summary and demonstration of the issues with ground up installations. I now agree, they should be down or sideways.

@kevinwood7216

6 ай бұрын

why because you're one of the few only people out there that have metal covers on your outlets? ..... give me a break

I loved this video! I am a curious person and always want to know more. Now I did not know however, that there was so much more to know about electrical outlets so you definitely satisfied my curiosity!

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.

When my child was little, I installed all of our outlets upside down to prevent an accident. I have found problems with certain types of plugs fitting correctly. High time they go back to the typical upright position.

Love that someone did this. 25 years of electric work in Wisconsin and Illinois guys would come up and install outlets the" Illinois way". Upsidedown!

Great breakdown on the issues with that practice! So many people have argued with me that it is safer! If only we had small plastic covers over the hot and neutral like the UK has to prevent exactly this problem!

@TimothyEBaldwin

6 ай бұрын

In the UK the covers are an integral part of the socket or permanently fitted to the socket.

So glad you covered this. It really bugs me when I see the ground hole at the top I certainly don't install them upside down in my home.

Every laboratory I've worked in for the last 30 years mandates the "upside down" installation. I don't think they'd ever use metal wall plates, but upside down prevents something falling onto a partially inserted plug and causing a short. By the way, it is not necessary for such a short to cause enough current to flow to trip a circuit breaker, but it could still be enough current to cause a person to jump, which could cause other problems in a lab, or to eventually cause a fire.

Very cool thx 🙏i always wondered. Because of the cable design i would always install the outlets ground down.

I guess i spending all thanksgiving weekend flipping receptscles around. Thanks

I have seen drawings where switched outlets are to be installed groud up to denote being a switched receptical. Love the channel. Cheers

As someone who once touched an energized metal faceplate and got (literally) knocked onto my butt, I'm so glad you made this video. Also, it drives me nuts when I have to plug transformers or surge protectors into upside down outlets!!!

For my whole life we had the plugs the correct way and had zero issues unless we wanted to have a little fun and put a black mark on the wall. Just as BS as taking away lawn darts for our safety

@reluctantprophet

6 ай бұрын

@@ronblack7870 tell me your not gen X without telling you’re not gen X

As always great content, Than you sir.

@SilverCymbal

6 ай бұрын

I really appreciate thank you for the nice words

If the metal plate falls its going to contact the earthed ground "first", before it can contact the live prong of the plug , so you are allways earthing the metal plate first., the other issue is cords pluged into an outlet have weight on there cord and this tends to bend the plug down , with the ground at the top it forces the prongs into there slots making therm less likly to be exposed .

@uploadJ

6 ай бұрын

Interesting angle on that one.

@k.b.tidwell

6 ай бұрын

That's my thought (and experience) on the matter.

I just installed some Eaton brand receptacles this weekend that were labeled ‘top’ with the ground up. But I did it the more common way anyway I like the face it makes better 😮

I remember sometimes changing the orientation of the receptacle depending on how I had the furniture and flat-plug cables laid out in the room.

Great job!

Thank you!

In many cases, if a metal plate falls on the prongs with the ground down, it will NOT cause the breaker to blow, it just dances for several minutes while throwing sparks everywhere! I’ve witnessed this first hand more than a dozen times at a previous employer and we replaced all covers with unbreakable plastic ones as a result. Thinking metal is required for durability today is silly with modern plastics IMO, but back in the 50s with bakalite plastic, sure. Flipping all the outlets was also discussed, but in a commercial building that would come with electrician costs, where replacing covers does not. The argument based on cords with angles built in is a little weak as there are also cords with the other angle or with a swivel. Plus, 90% of cords have no angle at all so that’s a moot point IMO. The bigger safety issue for me is that with ground down, a partially unplugged cord exposes a dangerous pair of conductors. Pretty low risk for a short other than the metal plate issue though, so this is mostly much ado about nothing in the end.

@JonathanMurray

6 ай бұрын

"as there are also cords with the other angle" Where? Closest google shows me is 90 degrees; none with ground up. (searched "low profile plug with ground up", "flush plug with ground up", and just "low profile plug") As long as industry standard is to put the heavy end down when ground is down, that's the way outlets should be installed unless specifically needed otherwise.

@swilson42

6 ай бұрын

​@@JonathanMurray The standard (guessing, but seems about 90% or more) is to not have any strain relief at all, so the heavy end is almost always simply straight out and the ground direction makes no difference. The part of my comment that you highlighted was referring to the fact that among the 10% that do have strain relief, most of those assume ground down, some assume ground up, and some swivel to accommodate either. I own 2 or 3 flat to the wall extension cords that have the strain relief that assumes ground up. As you said, they are not common, and may have even been a one-off that showed up on the shelf and then was never seen again - which makes sense given how nebulous this issue has been over the years.

If you had a residual current safety switch on your panel, any current above 30mA going through the ground pin will trip it and de-energise the circuit. This is important electrical safety gear that most houses in other countries have. Then it doesn't matter if the ground pin is up, because as soon as ground is receiving current, the circuit trips.

@TimothyEBaldwin

6 ай бұрын

No, they don't on current though the ground pin, but rather on an imbalance between hot and neutral.

If you have the receptacle sideways would you recommend the neutral or the hot up? I would say that if you have a metal faceplate you would want the neutral up.

@davidjames4915

6 ай бұрын

It's also the orientation that works best for those 45° plugs that tend to have the cord run out diagonally opposite the neutral pin - with ground pin right those plugs would have the cord pointing upwards (to the right) but with ground pin left they'll hang with the cord to the lower left.

I just got through looking at my Anker solar battery and it has both plugs up and down? But you don’t have any metal plates connected to hold it in position.

In the states you only protect for ground fault in areas prone to risk of water, like bathroom, ketchen counters, outside... In Spain we use RCCBs at the level of the electrical panel, so the whole house circuit is protected against ground fault, instead os specific sockets. That adds levels of protection that I would not even list here... Maybe it's a time to think about that.

@user-gx1rk8yw6l

6 ай бұрын

THINKING is a hazard in the USA...

Great information

Thanks for that information.

Entertaining is definitely the word, my friend. Hilarious thumbnail

You see a lot of outlets installed upside down in the North & also whenever a 20 Amp outlet is used. You also see it done in hospitals & so forth since it is harder for the plug to be pulled out by accident. I was told this by a electrician at the retirement community my Dad lives at.

This is really interesting

The point of the ground pin up is that if something else like a metal object hits it instead of the live hot and neutral, it will not cause a fire. Your illustration of the metal face plate creates a good conduction so yes the breaker should turn off the power, but if the object was a lighter metal that would not blow the breaker but glow like a stove burner and catch something on fire. Really the best solution is to have the recessed sockets like they have in other countries, so nothing can get across the live connections, or have all sockets come from the ceiling so nothing can fall into them.

If you want to see something really dangerous, check out the small all plastic "consumer units" they use in the uk where we would have a large metal breaker panel. Everything is really cramped inside and the older panels are flammable! Watched a video of one where the firefighters described the flames coming up from the top of the panel like a blow tourch! Fortunately the home owners smelled the smoke and the fire department got there fast enough to limit damage to the floor directly above. I definitely prefer our metal panels for safety reasons.

Very informative my friend. Do you think of stuff at night while you’re staring at the ceiling? Great information as always.👍

@SilverCymbal

6 ай бұрын

Thank you, I like to learn why things work and in this case I worked in a hospital when this happened and still remember when one of our top electricians got back and told me around 1995 that he had been installing outlets wrong his whole career.

@Cream1968

6 ай бұрын

That’s why I leave all that stuff to my son-in-law…. The electrical engineer.😉

I would say Ground always up ONLY if the outlet plate is iron and the object connected is mostly life-support related. Else, Ground always down.

This is the way I have been teaching students for years. ground down!

Out here in NFLD, almost every socket is mounted ground up. When I moved here, it caught my attention.

You said it yourself. Medical equipment needed to be kept operating. Even if the outlet becomes dangerous to then handle, at least the breaker hasnt tripped, and the equipment stays running as intended. This gives medical personnel time to move the patient, and then go trip the breaker manually when it comes time to service the outlet.

Thanks for the excellent explanation. As a side note - yesterday I watched a good video by Benjamin Sahlstrom explaining how to safely replace an older, non-grounded outlet. At the big box store aisle he was picking outlets from the shelves. On the display and the boxes there were photographs of the outlets - clearly with the ground UP - as the writing on the packages showed! I wonder if this contributes to the dangerous practice??

Ground pin facing up in the shop or work areas, ground facing down in living quarters. No metal covers anywhere. Solved.

@uploadJ

6 ай бұрын

Aha! A suitable compromise.

The first thing I do when I move into a new place is turn the outlets around so the ground prong is down. That's how the outlet is pictured in every installation guide and marketing photo. And that's the way you have to put them so that a transformer won't fall out under gravity, or that so the GFI cord on most appliances doesn't stick up at a weird angle and pull out under the weight of its cord. These hazards are far more likely than a sheet of steel suddenly falling into the crack behind a plug. Just don't keep random-ass hunks of sheet metal all over your house where they could fall into an outlet. And make sure your circuit breakers are working properly.

That's a unique take. Good work dude!

Another reason to install it ground down: The outlet ground might not be connected properly (loose screw or loose wire nut), and you might not notice because the outlet would still appear to operate normally. Then, if the metal outlet cover falls off and bridges hot and ground on the appliance plug, you have an energized ground on the appliance, which could be the appliance's metal case.

@Sparky-ww5re

6 ай бұрын

Wow thanks for sharing some insight, very good point I never really considered that possibility.

@cameronbateau6510

5 ай бұрын

What happens if the outlet ground might not be connected properly?

man is playing with death

The fact that there is not the equiv. of a IEEE standard for a power outlet "implementation" such as ground position is just stunning in the year 2023. Thanks for the vid!

@uploadJ

6 ай бұрын

Well, some of the outlet hardware is marked as to which side is up, and if the electrical code says follow manufacturer's recommendation, there is that.

@TomCee53

6 ай бұрын

Let’s just all switch to a twist-lock plug/receptacle system. 😂

I always prefer the outlets to be installed ground pin down or to the left. The only time I use the ground pin up installation is for switch controlled outlets for a lamp. And, even then, I always like to install two outlets side by side. One is switch controlled for a lamp and it is ground pin up, giving a dead giveaway that it is switch controlled. The other one is hot all the time and it is installed ground pin down and that outlet that is hot all the time is usually a USB outlet. That is how I always install switch controlled outlets. But the vast majority of them, I prefer the ground pin down.

Video Suggestion. First, this is a fantastic treatment of this question regarding outlet orientation. Another misconception area has to do with how much current a ground rod can or will draw when energized. Most people assume that a ground rod will draw current like a short would and trip the breaker. Turns out most ground rods will not draw enough current to trip the breaker but more than enough to cause injury. In spite of this there are lot of situations where unbonded gourd rods get installed. I'd love to see a treatment of this topic at the level of quality you did this video. MikeHoltNEC used to have a video on this but it seems to be no longer available.

My electrician friend explained to me that the ground up orientation is safer. In the metal plate scenario, the ground is in contact before hot. If hot is touched, it will create a short and pop the breaker. Since metal is much more conductive than human skin, you are safe since the current will flow along the easiest path (metal cover). It makes a certain amount of sense but I don't know if it is accurate or not.

"Electrocuted or even killed" Electrocuted is killed

You have a non GFCI, not weather rated outlet mounted outside, on a stucco wall, with an ordinary cover plate, and you're worried whether things are "upside down?" Glad to see you're at the top of the trade.

@markc2643

5 ай бұрын

1. The breaker he's tripping is a GFCI 2. The outlet is on a test rig, so being outside really isn't the issue you think it is. 3. That's not a stucco wall, it's wood. All 3 of these points were easily discerned from watching the video. That says a lot about your powers of observation.

I ran systems services in small hospitals for years, and cover plates DO NOT just fall off. I've never, ever seen it happen. After thirty of forty years the screw can get slightly loose but that's all. Phenolic covers will, of course eliminate much of the danger. But Silver Cymbal is right: the ground terminal belongs at the bottom. Mounting it the other way just looks amateurish. When I see them upside down I always turn them around.

If you install the outlet with ground up, a GCFI Receptacle Tester will be upside down when you test the outlet. You'd have to lay on the floor and look up at it, or use a mirror to see the indicator lights.

The european Schuko or F type plug is just the most versatile and safest.

@tcg1_qc

6 ай бұрын

@@phillipbanes5484 Better for the compact size, sure, but worse for everything else.

Should install GFCI in these situations

One thing about horizontal installation, it does matter which way the ground goes. The narrow blade is the hot. It should be on the bottom, for the cover and for fingers containing the blade. When any cord is inserted from the point of contact with the conductors in the receptacle until seated, there can be as much as 3/16" of exposed copper on the tines of the male cord cap.

@paulmaxwell8851

6 ай бұрын

That doesn't make any sense. As the plug is inserted, hot metal IS momentarily exposed. But so what? Whether it's the upper or lower prong makes no difference from a safety perspective. Learn to hold onto the plug properly, when inserting or removing it, and no-one gets hurt. I've installed thousands of receptacles in hospitals, daycares, community halls etc. and in every case the grounds were down in a vertical install, and the narrow (hot) slot was up in a horizontal install. That's been the standard in the trade for decades and decades.

@jasonsofaking6342

6 ай бұрын

@@paulmaxwell8851 In Indiana, the trade standard shifted (late 90s/early 2000s) to ground up (vert.), hot down (horizontal) due to specs written by the design engineers. That whole "authority having jurisdiction " thing, you know, in the code. (The NEC is just the bare minimum requirements.)

OSHA inspected our shop & said 120v outlets were to be installed ground upward ⬆️ position. That was in 1990. Any commercial-industrial jobs, I’ve always installed ground up. Always passed inspection & truthfully, I felt better seeing them this way. Who knows.

@SilverCymbal

6 ай бұрын

That is the exact timeframe when the hospital stuff started happening also. I worked in tewo large hospitals and when it started, the mentality was that it was like a miracle had unfolded. Debunked mostly over a time as overhyped but in those years it was a big deal. Thanks for sharing this

I just completely wired my man cave with all of the outlets in what you call the upside down position with the ground on top. Why? To my three year old grandson the outlets don't resemble a face with the ground hole being the mouth. He's adventurous, and the less reason he has to investigate those holes, the less attention-getting they are, the better.

This is a good topic I'm glad you covered it. But I can't help but think the real issue is the USA needs to redesign their outlets or pick some other countries outlet standard..... Our design is hopelessly out of date

@SilverCymbal

5 ай бұрын

You are correct, we should have done in it in the 60s like other countries and sadly this mistake will be with us forvever.

@mstrickk1

5 ай бұрын

I vote UK outlets. Always have, and always will.

Couldn’t you eliminate the screw loosening issue with a bit of a lower strength thread locker?

For sideways installation I would definitely prefer neutral up.

@solarsynapse

6 ай бұрын

Why?

@lilkittygirl

5 ай бұрын

The problem with that is without the ability to short, when one happens you won’t know until it’s too late

This is why a lot of local jurisdictions ban metal cover plates.

I think that I learned somewhere or noticed a practice of installing wall outlets with the ground up to indicate that the outlet is controlled by a switch.

Thank you for settling this long standing debate in my head.

It seems to me that this all came about because a few electricians took the quick and easy way out. If this has really been the big issue they made it out to be a better solution would have been to redesign the outlet and cover plate so that shorting it and electrocution would have been impossible if the plate came loose.

@mjc0961

6 ай бұрын

*EXACTLY*

All outlets should installed at exactly 37 degrees anticlockwise to the local Coriolis force. I thought everyone knew that

@uploadJ

6 ай бұрын

Depends on your Latitude, mate? Also North/South hemisphere location.

@cameronbateau6510

5 ай бұрын

What happens when all the outlets should be installed at exactly 37 degrees?

@uploadJ

5 ай бұрын

@@cameronbateau6510 You're going to need a bigger incline-ometer

I normally install outlets ground side down unless It’s a switched outlet application, those I install ground up to indicate that those are switched receptacles. Makes it easier for another person to remember.

@cameronbateau6510

5 ай бұрын

What else might happen if you normally install the outlets ground side down unless it’s a switched outlet application?

@evanchapmanfanman

5 ай бұрын

@@cameronbateau6510 it can cause the ground pin to snap off if the outlet is worn.