Excellent video. That definitely makes sense. My 2012 bowtech invasion CPX is very forgiving, and I never thought about the reflex measurement being a major factor. Keep up the great work

I’ve heard of these measurements before, but I totally forgot about them. I really think bow manufactures need to add these measurements to their bow specs, but because they don’t, I’m glad MFJJ is gonna add these to the bow reviews. Very helpful MFJJ!

That is one of the reasons I bought a Reckoning. Always preferred a deflex riser for accuracy.

Great video MFJJ love your work, I'm a BIG fan, I love the way you simplify & share bow techy tips that others make a mystery, Thanks for helping us.

Great video. You sir are a true professional.

thanks for the bow lesson professor MFJJ. keep up with the great work!!

Thanks for providing us with great information once again!

THANK YOU!!! Finally something that makes sense! Real numbers that actually mean something! Thanks for giving us good info and being honest for OUR benefit!

As a new to the bow world guy, I find your information helpful. Logically this video makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you

Great video. Finally someone is talking about this. I have been teaching/preaching that for years. The difference between reflexion and deflection. It is so important for accuracy.

Makes perfect sense to me. I remember lusting heavily over the original PSE Evo, to me, it was the baddest thing I'd ever seen. Such beautiful lines. Well nobody local had it, but that year the "Dixie Deer Classic" was coming to town again and I finally got my hands on one! 😒 It was one of the easiest bows to torque I'd ever shot. The limb pockets were WAY out in front of the grip and you could just breath hard and watch it torque while holding. I've owned 4 Bowtechs since then, and their "center pivot technology" that's built into their bows (imo) makes them some of the most forgiving bows on the market.

That is some serious Bow Nerd info…and I love every second. Shooting a few right now and will pick the one that “talks” to me 😆 keep up the great work…and thanks for the fast shipping.

Very informative I must say. It honestly makes total sense. Thank you!

I had never thought of measuring a bow in this manor before. It makes sense. I will have to measure mine and See how much different they are. Thank you for sharing

VERY informative MFJJ .. gonna say ur vids are probably more descriptive and more in depth yet easy to follow .. it’s like “bow tech for dummies”.. keep up the great work!👍

Love these videos! So much insight that I had no clue on. Keep them coming. Also, you should really do those bow build videos ASAP. Been looking forward to those

You have a gift the way you explain things it makes it easy to learn Bods Blessings

axle to axle at full draw is probably very important I would think

I’m very happy you’re going to include these stats in your bow reviews going forward. Could you also consider measuring string angle on bows? This is also an important consideration and it’s info that’s almost impossible to find.

@2ndAveScents

7 ай бұрын

That’s why they give you axle to axle. Plus it’s going to be different at every draw length. If you don’t like a tight string angle then you don’t want anything under 32 inches imo and honestly if string angle is a concern for you then 33/34 and up is all you should be looking at. Anything at 34 and over will be perfectly acceptable for anyone in the string angle department.

Love it. MFJJ teaching me stuff again. Keep up the good work.

Pretty awesome to know these specs from a bow when it comes to buying one 👍🏻 Definitely using this knowledge

I gotta give a shout out to podium archer customer service… I ordered some arrows about 2 weeks ago. Got them in and my 60 grain inserts weren’t in the box. A 39 second phone call to them on a Saturday and my inserts were in my mail box on Monday! AWESOME customer service Josh Jones! If anything needs anything from them I highly recommend them! Going to order me a draw weight scale and a arrow scale from them next and I’m sure it will be just as good! Thank you podium archer staff!

Makes sense! I like this type of info makes it better on deciding on what bow to get. Just got the ventum pro 30. Absolutely love this bow

What's up from a Zimbabwean olypmic archer .love your info mate . On point and something I look at seriously when sorting my compound bits and looking for none BS info .thanks man enjoy your stuff

Absolutely like the insight.

Great insight as always MFJJ - thanks for sharing so we can make more informed decisions. Both measurements are dictated by riser design so, aligned with some of the other comments, it would be interesting to see if there are “unique” bows which statistically would be superior to those with the larger marketing budgets or brand names

That is some very good information thanks for putting it out.

This makes total sense and this is why deflex risers are more forgiving in tournament bows! Thanks!

Good Info Josh defiantly putting this in the tackle box for the future

Definitely just learned something new. Thanks.

You have the best information and great in front of camera

Thanks again bud! You’re a good teacher

Great videos, keep them coming

Thanks man Never heard the term before “reflex” but makes sense Great video great info keep them coming

Interesting MFJJ. That does make sense. More info is always good. I’ll add this as a method to evaluate compound bows. Btw, had my string builder make me some natural BCY 454 low wax strings and cables for my Mathews Phase 4 33. Took your advice on the no dye, low wax. Very happy with the results! Thanks

Stabilizers significantly change the forgiveness and feel by impacting the same two variables bow vertical stability and torque

I live in Eugene and I really like u videos u very knowledge. I'm coming c u this spring

Love the explanation

great information keep up the great vids

Great to know. Maybe those specs should be included in your future bow reviews with a refresher of why they are important from time to time.

Good info. I feel like the bow that feels the best and I have the most confidence with is what I’m going with. I’m not a target archer, I’m a hunter. I shoot every day, and a lot. But I still don’t feel I’m accurate enough for these differences to really stand out enough to make my overall decision. Almost all the big manufacturers make equipment that will far outperform most of us. I truly like what feels best. Draw cycle, steadiness etc…I don’t shoot farther than what’s acceptable with my Broadheads, so that’s the true test and I typically don’t tend to go off measurements or popular opinion. That being said, these added measurements from manufacturers would make it easier to make a decision without spending all day in a bow shop and/or wasting money trying to find what you can shoot best if you don’t have that availability.

Thanks you for the info 👍

Good information, !!!

Great information! Can we get another video with all these measurements for all the bow reviews you have done in the last 2 years?

Good info, thanks for it...

I do like that way of figuring the bows out makes sense

Excellent!

You learn something everyday!

I like it Josh. Never thought about it that way. 🧐

Thank you

I think your inputs great

You may also consider providing total length when you provide mfg ata. A 30" ata bow with salad plates for cams will have a real world length of 36+" which would be a negative for some, but would provide a better string angle, and be a positive for others.

@reddawng43x91

Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

Additionally, would you consider doing a video on what you consider "great" and "acceptable" accuracy. Like great is 1" groups (or less) per 10 yards of range and acceptable is 1.5" per 10 yards of range (e.g. 4" at 40 or 6" at 40) with 3 to 5 arrows. Also, could you compare your shooting with the various releases - handheld thumb-actuated, hinge, and trigger finger-actuated to see if there is an appreciable difference in terms of accuracy and point of impact. Thanks again.

@jordanc1780

2 жыл бұрын

I would guess every flagship bow on the market is possible to shoot within those accuracy standards when properly set up. The bow fitment to the shooter and tune would have a large impact on those results which would vary from person to person.

@richarddean3154

2 жыл бұрын

@@jordanc1780 That is a great point - that the bows are inherently capable of tight groups. So, when the archer is added to the equation, the group size outside of the inherent capability of the bow is the archers fault. Then, what we need from MFJJ is what are the common faults in archers that cause poor shooting.

@freedomfam6

2 жыл бұрын

@@richarddean3154 I was just thinking the same thing. Many years ago I was dead set on upgrading my rig because it wasn’t shooting good for me. That kinda flipped on me when the guy helping me picked up my bow and drove tacks. Changed a couple of things and I was too!

Good job , your videos rock.

Good information

The professor MFJJ , love the video's keep it coming

Keep em coming

Great video. What Bow has the least reflex and longest riser for 2022 bow?

This is super helpful. Wish manufacturers would've disclosed this information instead.

I would be interested to see you do a video on the crazy looking Gearhead B34 bow. Its factory "specs" are spot on with the other major flagship bows around 33" ata, but the riser and handle position are a whole different concept with the 2 piece riser and adjustable brace height. Recently came across their bows at a hunting expo and nobody knowledgeable like you has done a critical review on them online. It has piqued my interest and I wonder if they are on to something or just crazy. Thanks for the content.

All sounds good to me. Thanks MFJJ.

Excellent food for thought. So, if you looked historically at hunting bows, which one would have the greatest accuracy potential based on the metrics of riser length and reflex? Some of the "odd" bows like the Oneida Eagle and Bear Delta V might have pretty good numbers. Thanks for the thoughtful content.

I've been bow hunting for over 20 years and this is the first I've ever heard of reflex. I just measured my Bear Legit and the reflex is at 2 1/4. So kind of in the middle. I guess that's a alright number. Thanks for more awesome information.

Really like the content!

Could you make a video on how to know if your bow has any cam lean, and how to fix it? Could you also make a video on proper stand and form to shoot a bow more accurately? Thank You! , for another great video!!

Thank You.

V3X33 is one of the best bows in every category... I'm sold.

Love this hope it helps me out

I agree with you that the riser length and reflex contribute more to accuracy than brace height and axle-to-axle. However, brace height can be reflective of reflex, since a larger brace height tends to indicate less reflex in today's parallel limb bows. Similarly a longer axle to axle somewhat reflects a longer riser, particularly within a brand; though you pointed out that across brands, this is not always the case. Regardless of any of the four measurements that you discussed, what I think contributes most to the accuracy of any bow is the amount of time the owner spends practicing with the bow; and by practicing I include shooting arrows at various yardages and working on form.

Good info

Makes sense. Curious which measurement you think is more important. I love my SR6, but have never shot a Mathews besides the older single cams. For long distance shooting between, say, a V3X 33 and a Revolt X, which would be more accurate? How does the CP28 compare to the V3X 29 with riser length and reflex?

Love the new intro but MAN y'all need to make an audio fade out for my headphones! Keep up the great content.

👍👍 it's about the mechanical advantage of leverage points. Basic geometry. As the pivot point ( where your hand meets the riser) is moved back toward you from the limb pivot point the " triangle " becomes bigger. This allows an easier ability for the limb tips to move left or right because the three points of the triangle are farther apart. A long narrow triangle, even at full draw when the cams are rotated and the position of the string has moved along with the limbs flexing back toward you, will have less perceived and actual " wiggle" left or right. For those that work with their hands and build things this concept is easy to grasp. For those that can not understand all this- just trust ol' MFJJ!

Thank you for your insight I have been shooting for over 40 years and started a lot of people in archery any bow can be accurate if you practice and you are consistent

@capricornmagic63

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it's that simple. High volume reps and good form.

@reddawng43x91

Жыл бұрын

I agree! People shouldn’t impulse buy off of these measurements lol

Love the video content Josh! How would one get those measurements without having hands on?

This man is a wizard!!!

This makes sense based on my recent experience. It's the reflex dimension more than the riser length in this case. I tried to figure out why my new bow felt like a noodle (torquey) versus my other bow. I haven't measured those bows yet myself but they are among the ones you have measured in this video. My Bowtech is rock solid compared to brand X. I sold the brand X and moved onto brand Y which is more solid than the X but not as compared to the Bowtech. I will be measuring both today to see how they compare.

@5jjt

Жыл бұрын

Brace height?

I'll be waiting for that video.😉

I completely agree with your thought process. The other tangent i would throw in that i consider is the grip design. I think this is where more people make poor choices. Just because it feels good in your hand does not mean it will shoot well for you if your grip isn't consistent. I hear more people when buying guns or bows make the comment this feels good in my hand so i will take it. If your completely open and honest with yourself and try every bow most people don't walk out with what they came to buy.

Finally someone who thinks like me , i also care about cam lean at full draw vs at rest its something that has only recently been considered but ive always paid attention to the RISER.

Well done, you need to show people how moving your rest forward or back can reduce torque caused by this

Over the last 5 years I have heard several people say in reviews that a brace height in today's bows doesn't matter as much as it did 20 or 30 years ago. Maybe it never has mattered less since every manufacturer is going with longer risers & more parallel limbs. 🤔

Cool vlog and very useful information also Josh. Just wanted to know is when will you be bringing out more vlogs on your three bow builds for 2022 I am looking forward on your Hoyt build and want your opinion also. Cool!!

@joshjones6862

2 жыл бұрын

Waiting on parts at the moment

The reflex distance you talked about make so much sense. I've been thinking about that for years and how that in theory should make a huge difference. Just went and shot a bowtech solution this year and bought it because it held so much more stable in the aspect of torque compared to my halon 6. Great video

I really love your channel, What do you think about a revolt x or a reckoning for a 3d setup.. since you're review of the reckoning I think it will be the next bow for me... But I'd like to hear what you think . 🙏

@Podium Archer I understand your riser length measurement and affecting accuracy but wouldn’t some of it also be the distance away the axles end up at full draw from that limb pocket point? It seems that distance could also change the torque

MFJJ, good video, but do you have any doctrine when it comes to know “when should I upgrade my bow”? I’m looking for some kind of metric, similar to those with used cars to know when is it about time to upgrade? When has the tech upgrade enough to I know I’m getting my money worth of upgrade? For me, I have a 2015 Prime Ion bow I bought used off of EBay . Thing shoots good, but it is hard to tell if upgrading to a V3 or V3X (or other) will yield a sizable difference in my consistency, accuracy, etc. it’s hard to know, on a limited budget, so I upgrade my arrows / rest or do I save up more for a newer bow? Hard for me to go actually shoot, I live in DC with no local bow shops to work on my rig. Thanks!

More nerd stuff, I love it. The more info we have the more we can manipulate the numbers to make the bow we currently own the best there is!!! 😂Great job and keep up the good work. Hoyt Ventum 30

Great video again. Just wondering if l ordered off your shop site do you mail to Australia?

Good video, 👍 I will add that a bow with a 7" brace height will always be more accurate because it helps settle and calm the bow down from wobbling or wagging the dog as I like to put it. Mathews has the greatest amount of side-to-side wobble in my oppinion and therefore when your watching a target bow being drawn back you can see the wobble more because of the longer stabilizers compared to a hunting bow set up. Manufacturers push and emphasis speed more than accuracy...it should be the othervway around...if your shooting a hunting set up @ 70 and 80 lbs then speed and less arrow cast becomes the overriding factor over accuracy. First an accurate bow almost always lands on a comfortable and manageable draw cycle....also I like to measure axcel to axcel and mark that center spot on the string then determine how that relates to the berger button location...you would be surprised how often those two locations don't line up....accurate bows most always line up in this regard....thanks again 🎯🎯🎯

Makes sense!

All else being equal, which do you consider more important? Reflex or riser length?

Great stuff. Do you have the same details for the V3X 33 and Ventum 33?

Kick ass information 🤟I measured reflex on my pse ntn at 1 1/2", is this correct?

2018 Bowtech Realm has a 1 inch reflex and 28 inch riser. Now I know why it is so forgiving / accurate.

Please do a video on speed test consistency and causes of variability. I watched a comparison you did on a Mathews and Bowtech bow. The Bowtech speed fluctuated by about 10 FPS and the Mathews was about 3 FPS shooting 3 arrows each. A 10 FPS inconsistency would be noticeable to even an average archer at longer distances. Love watching your videos I have learned alot from them. Keep up the good work.

@reddawng43x91

Жыл бұрын

Funny cuz I watched a bowtech Zion video he did and the 3 arrows shot the same exact speed of 317 fps witch is zero deviation

@montuckyman4982

Жыл бұрын

I bet most of that speed variation is in the Chrono!

So if you had to pick reflex or riser length which would you pick? Or have shoot off?

I’ve never heard of anybody measuring these parameters but I really does make sense especially with reflex. Do you put any thoughts into a longer brace being more forgiving I’ve heard that as well?

Been trying to explain this to people for years. Also how far does a string move passed BH on bows is a factor also before arrow leaves string. Awesome video

@reddawng43x91

Жыл бұрын

Not a factor on todays bows they all have string stoppers

And I’ve won archery tournaments with a 1990s pse nova with wheels lol