the problem here bishop, is we don't see this church resisting much of what it's supposed to resist, while we see it absorb much of the trash it was supposed to leave outside

@tobiaskyon5383

2 жыл бұрын

just take a step back and have a good, long look at your ego.

@andyecheandia8375

2 жыл бұрын

EXCELLENT

@daybyday3840

2 жыл бұрын

@@tobiaskyon5383 what you talking about?

@tobiaskyon5383

2 жыл бұрын

@@daybyday3840 About him being an arrogant pos who thinks what he feels to be right or wrong is ought to be the truth the Church has to act upon.

@daybyday3840

2 жыл бұрын

@@tobiaskyon5383 That made no sense.

I would love our bishops to offer the traditional mass in every catholic parish. Allow The Church to have a choice.

@krdiaz8026

3 жыл бұрын

People do have a choice, but a good bishop doesn't micromanage. If the parishioners want TLM, they should ask their priest who may or may not do it because maybe he doesn't know how to celebrate this, or maybe because most parishioners prefers the NO mass, and to celebrate the TLM for the one person who wants it is too much to ask. If you're the only Asian in the neighborhood and want the good soy sauce imported from Asia, then drive the 2 hours or so to go to the Asian grocery. Don't complain and demand that the grocer stock your soy sauce even if nobody else is going to buy it. My point here is if you really want it, then tell your parish priest, not the bishop, but be prepared to be disappointed if he says no. And also be open minded enough to know that there may be other reasons why he said no, and it's not just because he's a bad priest.

@deaconbilcarter5210

3 жыл бұрын

The Church is not a democracy, and thank God for that.

@JoseMoreno-vd8vj

3 жыл бұрын

Deacon Bil Carter with all due respect Deacon we know that, we’re not asking for woman to become deacons and priests because some modernist Catholics would like that, I’m just asking if we can have the traditional Latin Mass in every parish. I’m not saying get rid of the novus ordo. Per cannon law the Laity has the right to request for it, and the bishop should reasonably try to offer it.

@JoseMoreno-vd8vj

3 жыл бұрын

Deacon Bil Carter the TLM would benefit for the building up of The Church . Have a great day, God bless you in your vocation.

@Rene-uj5vw

3 жыл бұрын

@@JoseMoreno-vd8vj why would you want to get rid of Novus Ordo? if the church is not against it why would you want to remove it? it is still valid, even the pope is not against it. i know that TLM is great i havent been to one but i watched it, and its great, but what about to the people especially to our protestant brothers and sisters or to an anti-catholic who want to go to the Catholic Church? they havent have a single clue about the structure of the mass or about the real presence of the EUCHARIST, they will have a hard time for attending TLM because they will not understand a single thing, that is why we have N.O for our protestant brothers and sisters to easily comeback and once they understand the fullness of the mass they will greatly appreciate the TLM. like Iam, iam a solid CATHOLIC, before i havent have a single clue about the mass let alone the TLM but with the help of the blessed mother which continuously bring me closer and closer to the good lord Jesus Christ i finally understood. AMEN.

Bishop Barron, could you give an example of the Church “resisting what it must”? Given the enormous number of lay and ordained Catholics who support gay marriage, abortion, contraception, and other things embraced by our current culture, what would this resistance look like? And to whom should we look for any sort of outward manifestations of resistance? Is it enough for us to merely resist these things on a personal (introspective) level, or is there some way for us to actually build a culture of resistance within our Church which will articulate said resistance to the culture at large? I appreciate your thoughts and greater clarification on this important matter.

@Airman1121

3 жыл бұрын

I would also very much like a response to this question. It seems like one of the most important issues regarding faith today.

@jeans3490

3 жыл бұрын

I would like a response as well. What do you say Bishop Barron?

@krbattis4

3 жыл бұрын

Hoping and praying that Bishop Barron does answer your important question.

@madmaxrerisen

3 жыл бұрын

We need to resist the world church and be wary of qanon. kzread.info/dash/bejne/oJphl6trk6uchtY.html

@diannediaz5912

3 жыл бұрын

A very valid question. Many Catholics are unsure, insecure or uncertain about what their Faith means or requires in the light of so many dissenting voices clamouring for attentions the. Yes, Bishop Barron, I agree. Greater discussion is required.

At 57 years old I recently discovered the Latin Mass. Never in all my life have I experienced such beauty, depth, and reverence in the Mass. I’ve also noticed that compared to parishes that only offer the NO Mass, the Latin Mass parishes are thriving, full of young people, both single and married with families. It’s beautiful to witness. It’s clear to me that something went wrong in the Church after Vatican 2. Perhaps it should be revisited and the errors/confusion corrected.

@antonralph6947

3 жыл бұрын

Try a charismatic meeting

@spelcheak

3 жыл бұрын

@@antonralph6947 I'd call them satanic but that would be unfair to satanists.

@udmgraduate

3 жыл бұрын

@@antonralph6947 I've tried them. While many are decently behaved and well intentioned people....they live out the Catholic faith with chronically disobedient and irreverent liturgical practices. I live in the Ann Arbor area too, where charismatics are in full gear (and so are Catholics of every kind). The charismatic movement is not a pretty sight to see for an educated and well-formed Catholic.

@udmgraduate

3 жыл бұрын

@SimplyCJ Welcome! You have been more or less "red-pilled" like the rest of us. You are not alone. Most of the Catholics under 50 feel this way.

@bruhidk3069

2 жыл бұрын

@@antonralph6947 no

I understand Bishop Barron's defences of Vatican II, but the plain and simple (and perhaps tragic) truth is that the modern features of the current Catholic Church is what made me seek out the Eastern Orthodox church as a replacement. And I never would have needed to switch churches had the Catholic Church kept the Latin rites as its default. In the end, there was no beauty within the Vatican II rites.

@ThebigGisthebest

3 жыл бұрын

That is an insufficient reason - a lack of beauty in the way the rite is widely performed - to break from Peter. I love the Eastern Rite and all the Orthodox I know, but whereas the Latin rite as is in many places may lack the beauty it should have, but the Orthodox church is in schism and believes in heresies. Don't jump a ship because it's got one hole in it, help fix it.

@SowerOfMustardSeed

3 жыл бұрын

A much better alternative is to go to one of the Eastern Catholic Churches instead, e.g., Ukrainian Catholic

@darylfernandez2153

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThebigGisthebest Fair points. I must reply with the following though: (1.) When you say don't jump ship because of one hole, I think that isn't the case here. The liturgy is the whole thing, not the organization of the church. And if the liturgy has been changed, then everything has been changed. Also, (2.) The Orthodox Church is not in schism, nor does it believe in heresies. It is one of the true, apostolic and unchanged churches of the world. And its glory is and always will be the Liturgy.

@darylfernandez2153

3 жыл бұрын

For clarification, I joined the Georgian (Caucasus) Orthodox Church, a place I had moved to prior to considering conversion. The Georgian Church has one of the more ancient lineages. But of course, the key thing that remains is the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom, recited to this day.

@luisoncpp

3 жыл бұрын

Don't forget that things like latin or gregorian chants on the liturgy were not instituted by Christ nor by the apostles. I'm not claiming that they are bad, I'm just pointing that those things have always been subject to change.

I'm no theologian. My fields are biology & mathematics, specifically ecology & surveying. What can be said is that sometimes what looks to be good & is taken in by an animal is actually harmful. Many mutations & adaptations are not beneficial in the long-term development of a species. Upon this rock will I build my church, not upon shifting sands which move according to cultural winds. Christ said you'll know a tree by the fruit it bears. So, how is attendance & active participation in the works of the Church progressing post-Vat2? Are churches & parishes growing or shrinking? Are the people more fervent in their faith & reverent in the Mass, or less? By no means is my example typical, but what I find on Catholic dating sites is an "a la carte" approach to Catholicism. People have decided to pick & choose the parts of the faith they find appealing. Don't like the Church's teaching on pre-marital sex, birth control, or the sanctity of life? No problem, just choose not to accept it. Isn't that the root of the word heresy, to choose?

I was not brought up as a Catholic, but I remember as a kid going to Mass in the 1960's the tremendous respect and reverence shown to the Altar. As a convert in 2000, all the beauty and reverence I witnessed as a kid was sorely missing. Thank goodness I had some great RCIA Directors who helped me understand authentic teachings, along with a wife who is very supportive. Fast forward 20 years. I now have had the pleasure of attending several Latin Masses. I KNOW the beauty and respect given to the Altar shown in these rites NEEDS to be extended to all masses. It is very disrespectful to treat ANY mass as a casual gathering.

@enlosluceros7236

Жыл бұрын

I grew up in the 90's in a small town and even though Latin mass was already disappearing people would still make a reverence to the altar and the old ladies carried veil. I loved that

Many things can be said about the Mass of Paul VI for example, but one thing that cannot be said about it is that it is an organic development of it's liturgical predecessor. From the rites of consecration, to the liturgical language, to the words of the 1970 edition of the Missal, it is not consistent with what came before it. This is precisely the problem that Catholic traditionalists have with Vatican II as a whole.

@Quarks-gt2ov

3 жыл бұрын

Could you elaborate on the specific parts of the New Rite (Ordinary Form) that you personally find discontinuous or contradicting with previous liturgies?

@semperxian

3 жыл бұрын

If it was always or almost always said in Latin and ad orientem, Eucharistic Prayer I, traditional vestments, there would be no problem

@anonosaurus4517

3 жыл бұрын

@@semperxian Completely correct. That would make it more of an organic development from the earlier mass, precisely my point as well.

@catholicdisciple3232

3 жыл бұрын

@@semperxian let's add some good music (Greogrian chant) and altar rails to that list and we are good to go! :)

@anonosaurus4517

3 жыл бұрын

@@Quarks-gt2ov Eucharistic Prayers II, III, IV, altar layout, ad populum orientation, lay Eucharistic ministers, concelebration of the rites. The 2011 liturgical revisions did much to at least make the Missal more consistent with the 1962 missal. But the rest of the form is highly inconsistent with it's predecessor.

They should bring back communion rail, in my church in Fontana CA St Joseph, the Eucharist fell down, I was shock. They don't have the Communion-plate there. Now I go the the TLM in Ontario California. I love it there peoples show more Reverend for God. Lots of peoples no longer believe that Jesus is there.

@christineizzo123

3 жыл бұрын

@@tomthx5804 But therein lies a major problem...that it depends on the holiness of the priest. TLM depends less on the priest. Perhaps there should be stricter ruberics, more/better education of priests, ambiguity clarification, and/or calling out of religious/religious orders who have little faith or their own/modernist/relativist, etc. agendas.

@G-MIP

3 жыл бұрын

You can certainly have a preference among the various forms, expressions and rites available. Just understand that it is the same Jesus made present in a valid consecration. There is no uber Jesus in the Eucharist based on one Mass over another. Every Mass has the exact same Jesus made present on the altar. As a side note: The heresy of "Donatism" asserted that the validity of a sacrament-- depends upon the priest's holiness.

@krdiaz8026

3 жыл бұрын

bigskymike I think he meant it's better to attend an NO mass with a holy priest who doesn't always criticize the pope as horrible, or who doesn't promote TLM as the only valid mass, etc. rather than a TLM priest who believes all Trads are better than non-Trads.

oh, yes, the church today is certainly flexible. now, the part about resisting culture, i don't know; doesn't seem to me that it resists very much.

@wednesdayschild3627

2 жыл бұрын

The church is not supposed to resist the culture. The church us supposed to preach, teach and serve. God will take of the culture. Let it begin with me.

I just need to be a simple person, my Catholic traditionalism is to accept the Church's teachings and test them with 'fire', what remains is always what is purely gold.

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

respectfully, what does it mean to test the teaching of the Church with fire?

@raff9492

3 жыл бұрын

@@angelicdoctor8016 from my understanding, since he's putting the church's teachings into a furnace to burn or "test to the fire", it still comes out gold or in other words grand/beautiful.

@raff9492

3 жыл бұрын

And pure.

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@@raff9492 I hear you, but it was pure already

@raff9492

3 жыл бұрын

@@angelicdoctor8016 well I think it's important that we don't blindly accept the already pure teachings. We have to test them and apply them into our lives so we can see if they stay gold and pure.

Bishop is it true that you called a meeting of only certain media in order to discuss how to silence traditionals? What is wrong with wanting to keep the true traditions of the faith?

I think the Church should establish the culture and not on the other way around to adapt with the environmet or culture of the world..

@pinoysarisari7374

3 жыл бұрын

??... it's like saying God did not shine some graces in other nations or cultures.... All the good and pure in other cultures came from God, and the church is the rightful heir of those graces..... Why deprive the church of claiming what is rightful to her??

@ThePoliticrat

3 жыл бұрын

Hell, I’m an Anglican (high church, so I’m basically a Catholic for contraceptives) and I also agree.

@MrAmericanaSam

3 жыл бұрын

Are you willing to start speaking Aramaic, or Greek?

@paxaeterna3709

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrAmericanaSam You have to start somewhere. Latin is for sure the way to start, not the vernacular language for sure.

Dear Bishop, can you please talk about the ‘hermeneutics of continuity’ in the reading of Vatican II (maybe particularly about the Sacred Liturgy)?

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@@classicalteacher You sound jaded, Jon, when you say: "They bridged the hermeneutical gap with modernist gay philosophical planks that were rotted with wormholes." Are you saying there are errors in the Vatican 2 texts? Could you quote an error?

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@@classicalteacher Peace be with you Jon. We will pray for each other.

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@@classicalteacher Hi Jon. So you know, I enjoy Gregorian Chant and do listen to it occasionally. Now in Musicam sacram, regarding the vernacular, we see this -- what do you think of it? "IV. The Language To Be Used In Sung Liturgical Celebrations, And On Preserving The Heritage Of Sacred Music 47. According to the Constitution on the Liturgy, "the use of the Latin language, with due respect to particular law, is to be preserved in the Latin rites."[30] *However, since "the use of the vernacular may frequently be of great advantage to the people"[31] "it is for the competent territorial ecclesiastical authority to decide whether, and to what extent, the vernacular language is to be used. Its decrees have to be approved, that is, confirmed by the Apostolic See."[32]* *In observing these norms exactly, one will therefore employ that form of participation which best matches the capabilities of each congregation. * Pastors of souls should take care that besides the vernacular "the faithful may also be able to say or sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them."

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@@classicalteacher Jon - a quick clarification - are you saying that Gregorian Chant needs to extend beyond the chanting that already takes place at specific places within the Order of Mass in the vernacular (e.g., the typically chanted Memorial Acclamation)?

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@@classicalteacher the other clarification that you could offer (I think we might be talking past each other here) -- are you saying the Gregorian Chant needs to be in Latin, or in the vernacular (again, as in the chanting that already typically occurs in the Order of Mass in the vernacular)?

I miss Traditional Catholicism.

@pablodee9024

3 жыл бұрын

So do I, and I grew up in the Novus Ordo. No wonder I miss it.

@johnsanderson622

3 жыл бұрын

1000catz congratulations. Most people at NO masses aren’t even Catholic. They go there to sing and feel good, not to worship our Lord.

@1000catz

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnsanderson622 Thank you, John! For those who attend NO mass, you are right that some stay out of habit and/or obedience and are comfortable with a watered down and more compromised faith. However, some are genuinely unaware of what happened at Vatican II, as they were born after this unfortunate event (like myself and my parents who were too young to realize). Therefore, we should keep that in mind and have charity towards them and inform them, so that they can also realize that they have been deceived. I have informed many people who are now in the process of switching too.

@Steelers86860

3 жыл бұрын

1000catz I would stick with FSSP and ICKSP.

@Steelers86860

3 жыл бұрын

John Evans how do you know that?

Thank you for your views, Your Excellency! Your recent videos on this subject are enlightening, shedding truth on the current issue. My home parish has always been Traditional in the sense you mention. It got a little chatty in the sanctuary during the 80's but that was curtailed in short order. We've always held on to a deep sense of reverence. God Bless ✝

Praise the Lord Jesus Christ 🙏 Mother Mary Pray For Us 🙏Abba Father Bless us and we Adore You 🙏

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@Yes we can sure - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (John 14:8-18)

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@Yes we can What are you talking about? God is the primary author of Sacred Scripture. Also did you not read in the section I gave you, "Jesus answered ..."?

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@Yes we can my book? You mean the Catholic Bible which is the only Word of God?

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@Yes we can ok -- welcome to the conversation - I would recommend if you want to learn more about the Catholic Faith (which is a great idea, since it is the Catholic Church that was founded by Jesus, who is God) that you contact a local Catholic church in your area and ask them about the R.C.I.A. program. - learning about the Catholic Faith to explore if you want to become Catholic. Regarding your question/comment, Christians believe that God is one in essence and three in person - revealed in the Bible and Tradition. So Jesus who is God the Son became human, but there are also two other persons in the Holy Trinity - the Holy Spirit and God the Father. Hope that helps!

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@Yes we can Thank you, Yes we can. May God guide you as well. As Catholics and Muslims we must learn that we are all children of Abraham, so we must be respectful to each other, even though our beliefs are only partially the same. There is much good we can do together -- caring for the poor, caring for the environment, and caring for each other. We both believe in one God, though Christians believe (with evidence) that God has one essence (one God) shared by three persons. Think of it like three friends sharing one human nature -- they are all human, but they are not the same person. We believe this for many reasons, but the bible passage I sent you is one of those reasons. May God bless you.

😇Paying homage to the lord's altar with a heart full of goodness is always relieving & satisfying.🕊

We don’t think v2 is illegitimate, we just think it’s flawed

Say what you will about the intentions of the II Vatican council, and all the ideas about bringing new elements and traditions into our liturgy and other aspects of life, there is one question that I think all people of good will must ask and answer honestly: did it work?

@hervedavidh4117

3 жыл бұрын

For Africa, South America and Asia its surely worked! In Europe and North America, people say it didn't work because faith is leaving the place, and the easiest scapegoat is Vatican II council !

@melroycorrea7720

3 жыл бұрын

It hasn't, so far as I can say.

@47StormShadow

3 жыл бұрын

@@hervedavidh4117 If scapegoat be it, logic suggests some other cause which we must discover and examine.

@47StormShadow

3 жыл бұрын

@@hervedavidh4117 But I must amend myself, it's certainly possible for an event like the Council to be a blessing in one place and a hindrance in another.

@hervedavidh4117

3 жыл бұрын

@@47StormShadow Indeed, for those continents I mentionned, Vat II and its cultural considerations made It easier for people to embrace the catholic faith, It somehow helped the work of missionaries. Before the Vat II council, roman catholicism was a western civilization thing, so the perception of the faith was not Global. Paul VI is the first pope who went on every continents, I think it enlarged his vision. Vat II is the most universal council ever, more than 1000 bishops from all continents were present. Of course It changed something. But Western civilization was also changing at the same time, and way before the council.

Perhaps, bishop, you need to do a little more resisting at the bishops' conferences.

@escopiliatese3623

3 жыл бұрын

What exactly is wrong with the bishop’s conferences? You have a responsibility to back up your assertions and implications.

@ThePoliticrat

3 жыл бұрын

I think he may be a bit too “liberal” for that.

Can one call oneself a traditionalist and not speak out against homosexuality and abortion?

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

are you implying that Barron doesn't do that? are you also implying that those aspects of morality are the most important mission of the Church?

@sekumezu

3 жыл бұрын

His usual answers its the laity's job not his.

@ipso-kk3ft

3 жыл бұрын

Brother, Bishop Barron is strongly against both of those. He has several videos and articles on those, from way back up to now! Do check them out!

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@@sekumezu "usual answers"? Really? Could you tell me how many times you've heard him say that?

@aileenbordelon7884

3 жыл бұрын

Angelic Doctor He probably heard that from Taylor Marshal

I am happy to hear you consider yourself a traditionalist , perhaps we need to define terms more clearly as there seems to be a disparity in that an FSSP priest also calls himself a traditionalist. What defines a modernist? You have said many times that there has been a dilution , a forgetting of tradition with shallow ,beige and bland teachings . You lived through clown and balloon masses, which must be sacriligious; Why did this happen? THe faith was growing and dynamic before the council . The catholic church was the icon of beauty and truth in the world, the one institution still speaking out. ( well there was dark compromise approving two world wars, but just war theory is another topic ) Something went amiss, and it would be irresponsible to brush it all off . Even Pope Paul VI lamented in 1972 that the smoke of satan had entered the church . Bishop Barron ; catholics need you to dig deeper. I think the acceptance of pluralism ,universalism , moral relativism and the idea that all men are saved, has been both wedge and poison . The destruction of sanctuaries and the sudden unpopularity of prayerful practices like Adoration , the Sacred Heart and Marian devotions were scorned . Pope JP2 recognized the council failure , and coined the New Evangelization, essentially the need for all catholics to take their faith seriously again. It is the growth of many apostolates discovering the rich traditions, and transcendent liturgies that is upsetting many complacent and complicit clergy. Financial and sexual corruption are playmates, the church got soft and now the true new evangelization is taking place. I agree that some traditionalists can be strident , but they have been through the mill and need to be heard , just as much as anyone else. I am not sure a church with moxy to stay afloat, and to be savvy enough to avoid being cancelled by todays culture is what is called for. That looks like an evasive, ambiguous, deceitful and weak church to me.

Bishop Barron, I believe that I could say of myself being a 'traditionalist' but prefer to answer by saying that I like your anology to the animal... and survival in his environment. My faith in God, my heavenly Father who know me by name is my force and connection that pulls me forward... to his promise land.

The VII pastoral council, since it lacks Dogmatic Canons, has to be interpreted in harmony with the Dogmatic Canons of previous ecumenical councils. The trouble is, this can be difficult to do at times. The Hermeneutic of Continuity doesn't easily resolve all problems.

It's always been traditional to accept the teachings of the church. traditionalist contradict each other by rejecting Vatican II.

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

Boom! ✨✨✨ Exactly - contradiction.

Bishop Barron, For a long time, I’ve been living a life of sin. In recent times, thanks to you and many others, I have returned to the Church and seek to reform my life. However, in the process, I’ve found that many things which I once held dear have contributed to my sinful life. I know that the best thing to do is to leave these things behind, so I’d appreciate some advice on how to cope with leaving so many things behind. Thank you.

@ipso-kk3ft

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe I can help with a little advice? Christ came to call sinners. Living a life of good and obeying God is something we also do out of gratitude for Jesus redeeming us on the Cross, not because we want to earn God's love. We already have it. Ours is a religion of grace, not karma. Also, a regular prayer routine always helps!

@jaegercat6702

3 жыл бұрын

ipso246 01 Thank you! It’s wonderful to see fellow Christians helping each other out even in these small ways. I’ll be sure to keep your words in mind. God bless you!

How I see it is that "trads" feel that the current Catholicism is a watered down version of the real thing, and even Bishop Barron has criticized that tendency to dump down the doctrine. A phenomenon like this is not easy to explain, and we, as human beings, have a tendency to try to pinpoint blames on things that are easy to see, in this case it would be either Vatican II or the external expressions in the "novus ordo" masses. Things like the language of the mass, the priest facing the people, or the lack of the 3 times repetitions are superfluous. That doesn't water down the doctrine at all, there are bigger problems than that, but they are not as easy to pinpoint.

@johnrooney507

3 жыл бұрын

There were problems before V2, especially cultural Catholicism in my opinion.

@tinman1955

3 жыл бұрын

luis It's easy for me to pinpoint watered down doctrine. I'm old enough to remember pre-Vatican2 Catholicism when only Catholics had a shot at salvation. There's some explicit, non-ambiguous papal statements to that effect on the record. I don't judge whether that doctrine is true or false but no one can deny that it's been thrown out and denied by the modern church. Maybe they were right to do so but don't let Catholics tell you that their doctrines never change.

@johnrooney507

3 жыл бұрын

@@tinman1955 www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-there-really-no-salvation-outside-the-catholic-church Not ambiguous at all.

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@@tinman1955 respectfully, you say "no one can deny that it's been thrown out and denied by the modern church" -- I deny it, and I'm a very educated Catholic

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@@tinman1955 it's not that doctrines never change - the development of doctrine is good change - consider that at one time, the development of the Nicene Creed was a good developmental change, as that Creed took time to develop - what doesn't happen is a denial of previous doctrine - certainly didn't happen at Vatican II

I love our traditions, customs.

@vincenzorutigliano5435

3 жыл бұрын

Traditions and customs are not the same. Customs are just random things that we do because we have carried them as protocols. Example, driving in the right side of the road. Giving your right hand to say hi. Holding the door for someone as a sign of respect. Traditions are meaningful practices that are carried over generations because they provide something substantial for society. Example, having birthday parties because they get the family together. Singing Christmas Carol's because they make the community feel united. And in the case of the Church there are plenty of traditions regarding the faith that are carried over from the times of the apostles that connect us to the early Church.

@enlosluceros7236

Жыл бұрын

@@vincenzorutigliano5435 you're right but driving on the right side is more of a circulatory law rather than a custom. It's a custom to walk on the right side of the sidewalk so you don't trip into people.

My mother needs treatment for Cancer please anyone help my mom.

I too am a traditionalist - I love the traditional Latin Mass and sacraments, traditional devotions, traditional roles of priests/nuns/women/husbands, no feminism, no “nouvelle teologie”

A traditional Catholic interprets Vatican II in light of all of Tradition. Bishop Barron interprets all of Tradition in light of Vatican II.

@BishopBarron

3 жыл бұрын

Not so! I said that Vatican II is part of the living tradition of the Church.

@thecatholicman

3 жыл бұрын

Bishop Robert Barron I’m in Ireland and all the novelty of Vatican II has done zero to help the faith. The absolute destruction of the Eucharist, lax faith formation. Bad liturgy. Most Catholics don’t go to mass. Change for change’s sack has done very little. The only catholic groups in Ireland that are growing are Traditional Catholics who reject the Vatican II reforms. (Not just SSPX)

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@@thecatholicman so in logic, that's called a non sequitur; the onslaught of secularism and post-modernism was not enabled by Vatican II; in fact, as modern society rejects Catholicism, it is more culpable since Vat II tried to reach them as never before

Yes, the culture in which we find ourselves is not always the same, everywhere, everytime. Yet, the same Jesus speaks..and the Paraclete to provide guidance in every age. As an example - we 'Christened' Coffee! No, not in a random ceremony, but it was 'new' at one time. Yay! Bishop, thanks so much for being a branch of teaching that refreshes us, and spurs us on to keep getting excited, and learn about, not only 'our' time, but the grand picture. Long may it puzzle and excite us until we rest in the Palm of His hand. The first 'Great Commission' to me was to 'go forth, fill the world and govern it' - I love that He is always with us, and that every age presents difficulties, but the goal remains the same. God have mercy on us, and may we always trust and be confident in Jesus name saying.. ABBA Father!

Bishop Barron skirts around the big crux around why traditionalists take the position that they do - the issue of Vatican II producing pronouncements and documents that were/are in some cases fundamentally *at odds* with the organic development of Catholic worship and tradition.

@anonosaurus4517

3 жыл бұрын

The Mass of Paul VI, prior to the Missal revisions of 2011 under BXVI, was not faithful to the language of the Roman Missal of the earlier rite. Despite those revisions, it is easy to see at an Ordinary Form Mass on any given Sunday that this mass is fundamentally changed from it's predecessor. This is one example, and is the most famous. I made an additional statement below about this. Now, one may argue that Sacrosanctum Concilium, the conciliar document on the liturgy, was not adhered to, and that's a valid argument. I have also seen Ordinary Form masses that were the equal of any Latin Mass, but they are the exception and not the rule. Organic development? An obvious stream of consistency, including minor adaptations and changes, but with the overall form and function preserved. If the Mass of 1962 had been revised to allow for the Ordinary Propers of the Mass to have remained in Latin, with the daily parts being allowed to proceed in the vernacular, and the allowance of a permanent deacon to assist at the altar, rather than a subdeacon or an altar boy, these would have been minor organic changes that did not affect the fundamental structure of the Mass. Catholic architecture is another indirect example of inorganic development. Many modern Catholic churches are simply not consistent with the fundamental understanding of the purposes behind church layout, form, and architecture as understood for centuries.

@anonosaurus4517

3 жыл бұрын

@@catholicdisciple732 But the Bishop won't, and has gone so far as to block Taylor Marshall on social media.

@nerdanalog1707

3 жыл бұрын

@@anonosaurus4517 I seems strange to me, coming from Europe, that people would think that mass always had a standard and was always said in the same way. Not too long ago, the region where I live, people were still buried inside church they went to, women stood on the ground floor of the church while all the men stood on the first floor, the seating arrangements were done according to the houses they lived in and the social statut they had in the village, the mass was said in a regional language and most of the time, not the Latin rite. A truly organic development of mass, will see many regionalisms making their way in, up to the point that every mass in the world will be said differently, thus at odds with the universal message of Catholicism. Whether one prefers the Latin rite, or the Ordinary rite, it is just that, a preference; and really it isn't the essential message. What is important is the gift of sacrifice we all receive - the blood and body of Christ. The way people have said mass has changed over the centuries many times, and it will probably continue to evolve in the future. As for the architecture, well it's a building. Again, the most important part about this is that people are able to seek refuge from storms, heat and have a space to congregate. The building can be ugly or not to your taste, it really isn't all that important. Would it be better to have a beautiful building that inspires awe? Yes, absolutely, but not the most necessary. I am lucky though, where I live, there is a beautiful gothic cathedral near by, and most of the churches are over 200 years old, so there was still a sense of taste in those days (but this is just my opinion). But the cathedral was constructed between the XIII and XVI centuries, 300 years! In the mean time, the people went to churches they found ugly and probably didn't much like, that were dark and dreary. And before people actually had churches, they congregated in houses. So yes, let's aspire to the beautiful and the awe factor, but let us not make this the only criteria or essential criteria in appreciating Catholicism or judging the Church today. Vatican II is not the cause of the "downfall" of the Church. There are many different elements to this, not the least the birth of "scientism", Communism, both World Wars and then the decolonization wars (all this in a very short period of time). I promise you that those events had a much more powerful impact on people's mentality and faith than whether choosing between Ordinary or Latin rite - at least in Europe.

@catholicdisciple3232

3 жыл бұрын

@@anonosaurus4517 I know. I find that unfortunate. He unjustly labelled him an extremist. Dr. Marshall (whether you agree with his approach), is a Catholic man who LOVES his church. He prays the rosary daily and brings up legitimate concerns facing the church today. I think the Bishop has a responsibility to the lay people who are trying to be Catholic and have real questions.

@catholicdisciple3232

3 жыл бұрын

For anyone who is reading, don't necessarily believe my opinion or anyone else's here on Taylor Marshall (or traditional Catholics). Do your own research, examine primary source evidence, bring it to prayer and see what God reveals to you. Thanks for a great discussion :)

InHocSigno, Boy, are you right about that! Also, what he does not discuss is a misinterpretation of Vatcan II. Many religious orders "updated" themselves into extinction. I heard one young nun who was a member of a traditional order say, "I didn't become a nun to wear street clothes and live in an apartment. I did that for years before entering my order."

Your Eminince, I think that your response to the question was a pretty decent one, and not wrong. I believe that there is evidence, though, that in the aftermath of the Second Vatican Council, many unnecessary things were assimilated and have taken on an unduly central role in the practices and minds of the flock. A problem, but not a huge one. But some things were allowed to go away that really should have been held on to. Not Latin. I mean the overt reverence for the body and blood especially. It seems to be weak, or lacking. Reverence for it, though, is what should be our greatest strength.

@Quarks-gt2ov

3 жыл бұрын

@@tomthx5804 Yeah that is quite sad, some of us are guilty of fanning the flames of conflict abd misrepresentation when some have honest, decent questions. At any rate, I agree with ur comment here!

With all respect to all and don't meaning to have a confusion with anybody, I think both traditionalists (who reject the Vatican II) and liberals have one problem: they think the Second Vatican Council and the last 50 years as it was a time of total revolution in the Church. The history of the Church gives us calm, since all the past councils had their marks in the Church and made a new time, but to each Council make it's roots in the Church and the abuses be purified, a quite long time for they who live these times (~100 years). But in the history of the Church 100 years are about a season. Be patient and faithful to the Magistery of the Church, and all this confusion will pass soon. I think we are not in the time of the return of Our Lord yet (though no one can know it), there were worst times in the past. P.S.: Sorry for the bad english, I'm still learning. I'm not a native speaker.

@carolusramusservusdei9611

3 жыл бұрын

Good message, we are the body of Christ and we must continue with steadfast devotion to the church.

I'd say you can look at the Eastern Orthodox Church who's largely remained unchanged in terms of doctrine, liturgy and effectively every aspect for over a millennium. The Catholic Church really began to lose its way when the Papal Monarchy of the Middle Ages was established. The Orthodox Church withstood more pressure and crackdowns, but still refused to budge to the modern world. Let the Church go to the world, but don't let the world change the Church.

@ipso-kk3ft

3 жыл бұрын

I really admire the strength of the Eastern Churches, but they've also been hit badly (if not worse) by the cultural shift of the 20th century. Weekly median church attendance is 10% in Eastern Europe! And the percent of Christians from Eastern Churches has actually decreased from 20 to 12% in the past century, and are mostly in Europe (Pew Research). Meanwhile, Catholics continue to grow worldwide esp. since the 70-80s. Plus they have way less flexibility to address social, inter-ecclesial, and intercultural issues without an uncontested authority and representative like the Pope. So in that sense they stagnate and fall into/along ethno-political boundaries rather than being global and authoritative. On the bright side, Russia is becoming more religious I think, since the fall of the USSR!

@NequeNon

3 жыл бұрын

@@tomthx5804 darn it...I knew it was bad, but I didn't realize it was that bad among our eastern brothers as well...very sad. East or West, sometimes there really isn't very good news anywhere it seems.

@melindaanne6036

3 жыл бұрын

The Catholic Church I attend has 4000 parishioners, I wonder if any orthodox churches have even 400?

@heli0s101

3 жыл бұрын

I've seen Protestant churches filled to the brim with people. If it's all just a numbers game, then why does any of this matter? It's about the correctness of the doctrine, not the amount of followers.

@melindaanne6036

3 жыл бұрын

Nick Gurr I would disagree. If a church is dead, how many souls is it reaching? How many people will get to heaven? How many people are worshiping God? How many people are glorifying the trinity? Zero!

Can we just delete the novus ordo and have the tridentine mass in the vernacular?

@idforfilm

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking.. Let the Tridentine mass be made available in the vernacular.. People will still get to participate in the original mass in their own mother tongues, with all the reverence and awe our Lord deserves. At the same time, those who need the Latin Mass can still attend it. In either case it's the divine liturgy of the church over the centuries being celebrated, not the NO mass.

Such a smart, sound, balanced Bishop. Thank you. Just ordered the Catholicism Series DVD'S - can't wait to delve in!

@Quarks-gt2ov

3 жыл бұрын

I've been blessed to find two of his books on sale in a small bookstore near our place! Truly erudite and Catholic writing from the heart

@peggyp3682

3 жыл бұрын

The Catholicism series is AWESOME!

@markm.5756

3 жыл бұрын

@@peggyp3682 Poorly catechized here - hoping to roll up my sleeves and correct that with His help.

@peggyp3682

3 жыл бұрын

@@markm.5756 This series reminded me how beautiful the Church is. I had forgotten. I needed to be reminded.

Christ really is an astute and cunning tactician for His Catholic Church. No wonder her (the Catholic Church) assimilation and resistance to various cultures make her survive the test of times. Jesus Christ is amazingly smart.

@ipso-kk3ft

3 жыл бұрын

I remember a saying that Christianity stands on three great cultural pillars: Jewish, Greek, and Roman. With the ever-growing number of Africans and Asians in the Church (who put some of us lukewarm Christians to shame with their great piety), I wonder how our culture and philosophy as a Church may evolve. Though we should also remember that Ethiopian and Coptic churches are some of the oldest Christian communities.

Remain FAITHfUL to the Holy Church of CHRIST ❤️🙏💞🌹 Blessings from Mexico ❤️❤️❤️

I consider myself a Traditionalist, I have strong disagreements with some of what Bishop Barron has to say but I strongly agree with what he has to say here

@raymondcanilao1606

3 жыл бұрын

@Collins Anosike one wonders in his Catholicism series ( dvd 6?), the Lady of Lourdes was featured, but Bishop Barron is not to keen on the Lady of Fatima;

@trnslash

3 жыл бұрын

@Collins Anosike same

@cotter66

3 жыл бұрын

On those who have a problem with Bishop Barron sharing Hans Urs Von Balthasar's sentiment, "Dare we hope that all men be saved?"... Ask yourself if you can think of any particular human that you actually hope is burning in hell. If your answer is no, you don't really disagree with Balthasar. I would welcome being shown a quote from Bishop Barron stating he believes hell is empty or that most souls don't go there. I don't listen to him as much as I would like, but I suspect you won't be able to provide one. I suspect if he were asked whether most will be saved, he would simply refer you to the words of the Master. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

@raymondcanilao1606

3 жыл бұрын

@@cotter66 thank you, Mr. Cotter. I totally understand your point. It's just hard to reconcile the Catholic teaching of hell & 'dare we hope it's empty' for the reason that it was shown to the 3 children in The Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima, that a lot of souls go there. Of course, the kind Bishop pointed out that its a private revelation, & that's true too. But the fact that in his Catholicism Series & the Lady of Loudres' miracle was in the video, would that mean that the kind Bishop's argument weakens? Since both are private revelations

@raymondcanilao1606

3 жыл бұрын

@Collins Anosike hell is one of the crux of Catholic Teaching. It's why we pray to St. Michael the Archangel

Assimilating from 20 years plus of non-Catholic teachings with a personal awakening of 4 months Catholicism ....resisting of not letting go and moving forward 🙏🏾 By God’s grace/mercy Amen 🙏🏾

God bless Archbishop Lebreve and the SSPX

Thank you and God bless you, your Grace.

What is the (i) *FORM*, (ii) *MATTER*, and (iii) *INTENTION* of Vatican II?

@RestoringTheFaith

3 жыл бұрын

Tom thx AND Sacramentals. You must not know what a council IS. The Quid Est. Not surprised, most Barronites think the Church was born last century.

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

Let's see if I "get" what you want to say, Restoring the Faith: Matter - the teaching of Vat2 Form - the "ecumenical councilness" (distinguishing it from other forms of teaching) Intention - to be faithful to Tradition and to evangelize What's your version?

@RestoringTheFaith

3 жыл бұрын

@Collins Anosike An ecumenical council is closer to a sacrament than a sacramental. It is an extraordinary act of the Bishops, done only 20 times in Church history. It has a specific intention -- to condemn error or define dogma. That's it. That's the only valid intention of an ecumenical council. To the extent the bishops process into a room and produce a set of documents in which their intention is *contrary* to the perennial intention of the Church, then it is worth asking whether or not an actual council occured. Both JohnXXIII and PaulVI stridently denied that Vatican II would *either* condemn error, or define doctrine. It stands alone in this regard. Not a single dogmatic statement. Not a single Anathema. You yourself have provided an "intention" for the council which is NOT a valid intention.

@RestoringTheFaith

3 жыл бұрын

@@angelicdoctor8016 "I" don't have a "version." As you'll see, "your" version would NOT confect anything. It would not mean anything. It would not be binding. If a priest says the words of consecration, and the matter is correct, but has NO intention of conferring a sacrament, it is not valid. There is no transubstantiation. It is not up to the priest to "invent" an intention. It is up to him to ASCENT to the one, true, perennial, and *only* intention of the consecration. He is not free to deviate.

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@@RestoringTheFaith Wow! You were talking about the matter and form of Vatican II, and now you're talking about sacrament validity. OK. I can see that your thought consistency is an issue. Peace be with you.

Speaking of tradition; it would be wonderful if you could do a video expressing your views of Communion in the hand. Is Holy Communion a "tradition" we get to play with and change because, well, just because?

@peggyp3682

3 жыл бұрын

Jesus administered His Body the first time in the hand at the last supper. The first Masses were celebrated in homes and the concecrated bread was distributed by hand. I don't think we should fixate on how the Eucharist is administered as long as the receiver is respectful. This comes from education and reinforcement of the reverence due to the Precious Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. That's my penny and a half.

@imnotbuddha

3 жыл бұрын

@@peggyp3682 Hi, Peggy. My thoughts. Firstly; The Last Supper was attended by Jesus' beloved disciples. And it came from Jesus' hands. As for being "respectful," that is not what is required to touch the Host. Being merely "respectful" is not being "reverent." This is not a "representation" or a "symbol." This is Jesus' actual sacrifice. Real and whole. Can one say we are adoring the Eucharist if we reach for and hold the Host with unconsecrated hands? If we do not kneel before it? I have not been consecrated. What has been? The priest. The chalice. The corporal. God would understand an extreme need to touch it. But simple convenience or habit or cultural practice is, by my limited understanding, not. Holy Communion is about the sacrifice. I will not sully it.

@G-MIP

3 жыл бұрын

www.franciscanmedia.org/ask-a-franciscan-receiving-the-host-in-the-hand/

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

@@imnotbuddha Jim - your beliefs about the Eucharist are in some ways excellent - you give great respect to the Eucharist. However, your ideas about not receiving in the hand go too far. I also deeply reverence the Eucharist and understand the gift and responsibility of receiving in the hand - quite powerful. The Church has already decided with Magisterium approval that this is legitimate. So when you ask "Can one say we are adoring the Eucharist if we reach for and hold the Host with unconsecrated hands", the answer is yes. I do adore Christ at Mass when I sit and and when I stand and when I kneel. Those of us in line with the actual teaching of the Church should be offended when you subtly accuse us of "sullying" the Eucharist -- shame on you for this wrongful Pharisaical judgment.

@peggyp3682

3 жыл бұрын

@@imnotbuddha I would hold our Blessed Lord in my arms if I could. Till then, I'll hold is Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in my hands for the very brief moment it takes me to consume him.

Bishop, had it not been for Traditional Catholicism, I would've been a Protestant. Thank God that I had attended a TLM for it kept me Catholic under God's grace/.

Totally agree with you dear Bishop!

To often do we, as Americans, look at the Catholic Church as solely an American institution. Too many blame Vatican 2 as the demise of the church, and yet V2 has lead to incredible growth and beauty in South America, Africa, and Asia. Perhaps then, it was not Vatican 2, but the implementation and it's catechisis by the American church and it's laity that has lead to our current state. We as Americans just take a step back and not bog down the universal church with our local politics and short comings and look to improve our understanding and teaching of the true universal Catholic Church.

@metanoiafaith

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly Joseph! We spend so much time within our own 'camp' we fail to see the forest because of the trees. So many arguments about church attendance numbers falling away, being blamed on V2 and the Novus Ordo Mass. Yet in developing and third world countries, priestly and religious vocations are booking, church attendances are sky rocketing. As Jesus says, the Spirit of God is like the wind, no one knows whence it comes from or where it goes (John 3:8). Perhaps there is a lesson USA, UK, Australia and other 'modern' cultures where numbers are dwindling, needing to be learned.

@Airman1121

3 жыл бұрын

Do you think that it is evangelization in those regions at the expense of the "traditional" Catholicism of the past and those who adhere to that faith?

@CathDad4

3 жыл бұрын

@@Airman1121 No. I don't believe that anything with Vatican 2 has been to the expense of anyone. The TLM is still an accepted, practiced, and revered liturgy. It seems V2 created an accessibility to these areas that hadn't been possible previously. Especially given the massive cultural differences compared to the west. We must remember that while Roman and western culture were built around the church it isn't the Church.

@Airman1121

3 жыл бұрын

@@CathDad4 With respect, I struggle with this. I see contradictory issues, especially in regards to the Church's relationships to other religions. Thank you for your polite response.

@gunsnrosaries

3 жыл бұрын

Vatican II affect the world and those who accepted it's changes......

Which means, we don't have the ascendancy to pontificate on being traditional if we repudiate a council that intends to bring the Church to the people.

I'm hoping that the Holy Spirit is who's keeping the Church alive. Otherwise we're in for hard times.

Bishop Barron/Pope Francis. Jesus said you can judge a tree by its fruit. Can you please tell us how what the fruits of V2 are? Or shall I say the fruits of the spirit of V2? Seems its obviously pretty rotten to me. No?

The text of VC2 clearly calls for a deeper and more integrated involvement from the laity. We can see this from the divine office to the liturgy and can only be celebrated. The council has moulded and guided my prayer life. The problems have arisen from certain clerics and theologians who've taken a heterodox view of the documents and gone away from Saint JP2's reading of them.

Didn’t Pope Benedict say in 1984, “The problem of the Council was to acquire the best expressed values of two centuries of ‘liberal’ culture…and purify them.” ?

Hi Bishop Barron, were the martyrs wrong to resist their culture? Didn't Jesus call his apostles to be, 'my martyrs'. The Catholic Church is being attacked very insidiously. Terribly sad to witness the destruction of spiritual belief. I'm praying for holy priests. Ave Maria. ☘

God bless you Bishop Barron....

THANK YOU BISHOP BARRON! THANK YOU TO GOD! THANK YOU MOMMY MARY!

My parish has masses in French Portuguese and Spanish. I have no problem following the Mass i. these languages. I have access to TLM and the NO in Latin ! This at St Benedict’s Abbey Still River Mass. It’s the Sacrifice of the Mass regardless of the language the priest celebrates it in.

Great respect and love for this very learned man. Agree with everything he has to say

@Quarks-gt2ov

3 жыл бұрын

@@meaxm787 Bishop Bob Barron's sorta like the wise veteran of Catholic social media. He's been here before all of us, and will be here long after all of us!

@jamespuso1627

3 жыл бұрын

I can listen to him forever, he reminds me of a lot of College professors I had that you really always leave the room feeling as though your mind has grown

@stevenhotho4094

3 жыл бұрын

be careful

It would be great if you did more videos on Vatican II. My teenage son has fallen in love with the Latin Mass and has begun to question Vatican II, and I see myself poorly informed, I have begun reading, but your insights would be great.

@idforfilm

3 жыл бұрын

Thank God for your son.

@DoctorDewgong

2 жыл бұрын

this is exactly the problem. Online tradcats worship the Latin Mass instead of worshiping Christ

I’m a Protestant Christian but can I become a Catholic without accepting the church’s view of Mary? Without praying to the saints? Is there a way of voicing my concerns?

We are not slaves to tradition. We need to be courageous enough determine between the essential and the transitory. So many traditions loved by "traditionalists" are transitory.

@lisalindsey277

3 жыл бұрын

@@whitewolf1298 It’s not an oxymoron since traditions are always subject to change. The “essentials” never change. A few examples. (1) Public penance of the early Church became private confession in the Middle Ages. In times of war, soldiers are given General Absolution. But no matter the method of confessing, the “essential” part is the FORGIVENSS OF SINS. (2) The practices of Communion Under Both Species, Eucharistic Adoration, and Corpus Christi processions have waxed and waned over the centuries. The “essential” part is belief in the REAL PRESENCE. So-called Traditionalists are infamous for turning disciplines into doctrines; for making man for the Sabbath instead of the Sabbath for man.

@lisalindsey277

3 жыл бұрын

@@whitewolf1298 II don't disagree with what you wrote there. I was referring to traditions with a small "t" - not Apostolic Tradition. That is another item many trads confuse - the small t from the big T. Customs and practices are small "t" traditions and they change. I'm not saying they *should* change, necessarily. I'm simply saying they CAN change and when they do it doesn't hurt the Church's integrity or credibility.

The Church should lead with with its eternal truths, that is to say it should not be assimilating to the culture in which it finds itself, but quite the contrary it should be leading not adapting. Truth, objective does not change. The Church is who she says she is or God is a liar. I believe in one Holy Catholic Church founded on the blood of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

@BishopBarron

3 жыл бұрын

For its evangelical purposes, the Church continually draws certain elements of the culture into its life. This is what Aquinas did with Aristotle.

The people getting some kind of salty in the comments here are the very reason for Traditionis Custodes. Humility, people, humility!

I love traditional Liturgy respect origins but 21centry has diversity believers in the world I didn't have chance to learn Latin even English is my second language; respect tradition also embrace whoever wants to practice in Catholic christianity no criticism should be issued ONLY ONE GOD JESUS HOLY SPIRIT...AMEN 🙏💒🇰🇷🇺🇸💕💕💕

@ipso-kk3ft

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you friend! I'll be praying for the Church in Korea too, your country's devotion and culture are an inspiration for all Catholics.

Bishop Barron! Thanks for this. I think it's great that you're addressing these topics and engaging the internet-sphere in such a way. The Catholic online world is a jungle, especially on these sort of issues, and we need good leadership to avoid dangerous pitfalls. Again, thanks and God bless!

I am 28, and I recently joined the local Latin Mass community in my Diocese. There is unmatched beauty in the Extraordinary Form which was missing in my life due to the "lavender Catholicism" of the demonic Spirit of Vatican 2.

@timfirst3536

3 жыл бұрын

Be deep-purple as the Immaculate Heart, not lavender. :) Pax Christi -

@brodyhagemeier9356

3 жыл бұрын

@Nick Jones I love the Catholic Faith and could never be ashamed of it, because Catholicism is truly life-giving. The Creator of the Universe started, and powers to this day, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Faith.

Thank you, Bishop Barron. God Bless.

Thank you Bishop Barron, these short videos all of them, especially on Vatican II, tradition etc. that you have been posting of late are priceless. They sure will serve the great requirement of 'correct reading' of the Church's thought and mind, for all future generations.

Loving it

This is the weakness of the church we reject. It’s fitting your analogy is a dying animal, because you don’t seek dominance and ascension you seek pragmatic survival.

Again, Bishop Barron please make a longer video about this. I totally agree with what you said. But people need details to change of hearts. Please Father, I am so saddened by this division in the church. We can do better.

Now, that is wisdom! My very favorite line of the OT is Ecclesiastes 3: 1! I also believe what I believe Chesterton said in describing Catholicity: “here comes everybody”. The infinity of the Godhead is totally beyond us. Any description of the divine limits it, and therefore can only be analogous. We cannot put God into our own little box! Thanks for this post Bishop Barron.

Bishop Barron,do you have a companion?

I must confess my confusion at “Trads” calling themselves traditionalists, when that tradition only extends back to Trent, and Trent had loads of problems in its determinations when compared to the teachings of Saint Paul, Saint Peter, Saint John, etc. I think Bishop Barron has given a pretty fair assessment and even critique.

Brilliant and profoundly wise! A leaven of both the Gospel and the culture. We bring forward our gifts in Wisdom. Thanks for this Bishop Barron!

Is he saying the church can change? But doesn't the truth stay the same. How can it change?

When the pope was asked about the Charlie Hebdo killings, he replied that if anyone insulted his mother, he would rightfully retaliate with physical violence because people can’t go around offending the believes of others. Why is it so easy for the pope to put himself in the shoes of cold-blooded murderers and so difficult for him to afford the same level of understanding to people who simply want to celebrate the Holy Mass in the same way that their grand parents, great grandparents and great great grandparents did? Something is off. WAY off.

@christophersnedeker2065

2 жыл бұрын

Charlie hebdo made very rude jokes about Christians and Jews not just Muslims. I'm not saying I support the attacks but I might have spray painted graffiti on their wall or something.

@Safe-and-effective

2 жыл бұрын

@@christophersnedeker2065 You obviously don't get the seriousness of taking a person's life over "rude jokes". Stay calm, neither does the pope.

A consideration of Vatican II using the concepts of genus and species. Without getting into the historical background, inner workings and doctrinal details of the Vatican II documents and rather relying on what most Catholics know about it the following analogy I think is most revealing: Aristotle says that the natural way of learning and coming to know things is from the generic to the more specific. Just as when we see something moving in the distance we first identify it as a body and then as it moves closer an animal and even closer a man and finally as this particular person Socrates. Now it needs to be understood that there is a difference between our knowledge of a thing and the thing itself. Our knowledge is always more generic than the thing itself existing in reality which is very specific. If someone were to give the definition of the species of a thing instead of giving the definition of the genus of that thing one would give a more precise and fuller account of the thing. In other words the more specific our knowledge becomes of something the closer our knowledge resembles the thing. The truer our knowledge is, in the sense of having more truth - adeguatio res et intellectus. This is the natural way man comes to know. To try to move in the opposite direction is unatural and against human nature. To try to forget what one already KNOWS about something in order to know it more generically is an act of violence against oneself. It would entail force that goes against one's own nature. Now what is more generic and less specific is more universal. Whereas as what is more specific is more exclusive. In the same way when one says the word animal it can apply to many things. Where when one says man it excludes many things and applies to just one type of animal. Now things that exist in reality ARE NOT generic they are specific. The Church founded by Our Lord is a real existing reality. It is something specific with its own essential elements and properties. Now the Councils, pronouncements and doctrines through the ages became more and more specific. The Church's awareness of itself approached more and more the reality of its own being. It is impossible to move in the other direction. In other words it is impossible to move from a specific knowledge to a more general confused knowledge. A generic knowledge of anything is always more confused than a specific one, just as knowing something only in so far as it is an animal is more confused than knowing it specifically: a man. Instead our knowledge specifies as we gain acquantaince and experience of a thing. This should.not be confused with the knowledge particular persons had of the Church. Ofcourse the apostles and early Christians had a very specific knowledge of the Church. However the Church's formulated doctrine was not as specific. Throughout the centuries this doctrine became better formulated and more specific. This was neccesary especially to rule out heresy and error. A more generic knowledge on the other hand is more open to heresy and error. Now, in order for Vatican II to be less divisive, open to non Catholics and ALSO IN ORDER FOR THERE TO BE CONSENSUS AMONGST THE COUNCIL FATHERS, THE COUNCIL HAD TO REVERSE THE NATURAL PROCEDURE AND PROCLAIM SOMETHING MORE GENERIC THAN PREVIOUS COUNCILS. Now one could argue that the council taught no error. Entering into this debate is not easy and not for the most of us. However knowing that the council purposefully decided to be less specific and more generic is known by all of us. Can we say that a generic knowlwdge of a thing is deficient compared to a fuller specific knowlwdge of a thing? Trying to go against oneself and forget what one once knew creates the impression that one must have been wrong once upon a time. Because why else would one try to forget what once knew? Especially if what one once knew one used to think was valuable and true, a treasure to be safeguarded. How many people do we know who have used Vatican II to look back and interpret older Councils? Anything more specific than the Council is frowned upon as superfluous and outdated. But does truth age? Never the less can we blame them for acquiring this habit when this is a natural consequence of artificially regressing and not progressing in knowledge? Of trying to be less specific and more generic. I leave you to draw the conclusions!

Hear, hear. So many are using the word tradition in the completely wrong way, when referring to Tradition in the Church.

Thank you 🙏🏽

Tradition for my generation was the Latin Rite. There is a parish in the city that still does it, but it’s in a terrible part of town. I can watch it on the computer, though.

As a protestant searching for an ancient Church I am so disappointed by current state of Roman Catholicism basically becoming another protestant church, Orthodox Church on the other hand is much more appealing and faithful

@krimbii

3 жыл бұрын

The original church is under greater attack by Satan than the others. Just go to traditional mass and receive the eucharist. This will all be over soon anyways.

Vatican II which at the beginning had a strong influence on my world-view and faith, finally had to be discovered being the worst blunder since Luther's reformation. Though pretending to open windows and thus permitting fresh air coming into a dusty church, a new ecclesiastical dictatorship has been established which - without prior survey among believers - has been imposing a new protestantised and soulless mass, only liked by very few people. The opinion of faithfuls has never been asked. This was the so called "democratisation" in our church by Vatican II.

@johnrooney507

3 жыл бұрын

God called me back to the Catholic Church with mass in the vernacular after being taken away at about 8 or 9 yrs old. Having been in Protestantism I do not find it similar or soulless, but quite the contrary. I could be wrong but I think there is a much greater number of Catholics worldwide than when the mass was only in Latin, not that I have anything against the language, just have zero experience. Please don't just look at the negative.

@ipso-kk3ft

3 жыл бұрын

Sibling, I think that, of course, your concerns are valid and grounded. Perhaps it's call to contact your local bishop/nuns/brothers and do something about it on the ground locally But in the bigger picture, we have to remember the massive (but imperfect) good that post 1960s evangelization did in converting millions and strengthening relations and influence of the Church on global institutions.

i think the issue that needs to b spoken on are the things that turns out, are things in vatican 2, a pastoral council, we must resist.

Truth is truth in every culture and in all times. We assimilate it, not the other way round. I wonder what the martyrs would make of BB’s remarks.

I would sharply disagree with your statement about simulation of the Catholic church. We can take for example most recently, China C.C.P. is the Catholic church in China. Shure balance without destroying our fundamental sacraments and tradition. Your defensive posture shows the church is weaks from the cord down of the Catholic church. No church, I repeat no church will survive with weak leadership. A very despondent Catholic and add millions!

@BishopBarron

3 жыл бұрын

I might ask you just to listen to what I said again. You're not really getting it.

@ipso-kk3ft

3 жыл бұрын

While I condemn the Vatican's (long-running) blunders with China, the fact is the Chinese Communist Party is one of the most shrewd, vile, and manipulative bodies in all of history. They want nothing in China (and now HK) out of their control. And I think they outsmarted or tricked the Vatican by giving false promises. So I don't think you can really blame the past Popes so much for failing there.

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

you say: "no church will survive with weak leadership" Jesus says: "the gates of Hades will not prevail against it." I'm going with Jesus.

@timetoreflect1394

3 жыл бұрын

@@angelicdoctor8016 I hope and pray every Catholic is with the Lord Jesus Christ.

@timetoreflect1394

3 жыл бұрын

@@BishopBarron I listened very well, very well, Pope Jean Paul stood his ground against Communism. Held up the crucifix in front of Castro and the people of Cuba. What a proud day to be Catholic. Pope Jean Paul shouted be not afraid! I heard it over and over again and over again. Foxes have holes and birds have nests but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head. Nor does the Church of Jesus Christ.

Thank you Bishop Barron.

The committee which butchered the Roman rite during Vatican ll should be charged with liturgical malpractice.

Good and helpful analogy, though the Church isn’t just trying to survive in a scary world. We are victorious and the gates of hell shall not prevail. We are on the offensive, not just making it until Christ comes again. How does this change things?

Your voice of reason here shows why the Catholic church is the longest continuous institution in the world

Thanks, Bishop Barron. We need more bishops and Catholic theologians to lead with fundamentals...as you have just done. Newman sheds light on true vs false development. I love Vatican II, and our entire Catholic heritage.

Bishop, after watching and listening to your take on a number of subjects I can actually say that everything you have said and I don’t like absolutes, after reflection makes perfect sense. Especially this particular episode! I 2 graduating from high school in 1971 can relate! One last point tell my son Brian to give me a call it’s good to hear from him from time to time. LOL is a good man and a good priest

How can Bishop Barron not see the mistakes in Vatican II? And argument from analogy is not an argument. We're the Church, not animals.

What needs to be repudiated is ambiguity. And intentional ambiguity be clearly categorized as a grave sin specially from the those who should transmit the faith. Are CV2 documents in continuity with previous teachings ? In that case the Magisterium must clarify how. There are several difficult questions about that suppoused continuity. This is not the job for one bishop in Polland when another one in Germany says exactly the opposite. We've seen with Amoris Laetitia the scandal of Pope Francis ignoring the request to clarify how his teaching "continues" Veritatis Splendor and 2000 years considering adulterous sex an intrinsically evil act. Otherwise we will cotinue endlesly discussing about "development of doctrine" in abstract instead of showing clearly each topic is not a corruption. I apologize for my English.

@angelicdoctor8016

3 жыл бұрын

ambiguity is not the same as misunderstanding; there is no ambiguity in Amoris Laetitia, as any good Thomist knows; Bishops can of course not read carefully or not be faithful, which is a problem when it happens. Sometimes, for those who have difficulty understanding, trust is required. Lumen Gentium 25 addresses this: "This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking."

I'm seeing so much debate on the internet recently regarding the way of receiving the Blessed Sacrament. I am very confused since I've taken it in hand for decades - and now, suddenly, being made to feel like an evil person. The pro-tongue folks seem so angry and vile about this - but we've been doing this for ages with nary a word. I hope you will shed some light on this hot topic, Bishop Barron.

@SUZMIC1

3 жыл бұрын

Been hearing more yes about emphasizing the reverence of receiving our Lord Jesus on the tongue too in and out of pro life circles. This is good solid Catholic teaching thru the ages of reverence for our Eucharist Lord. But the “vile” parts have not heard. Please forgive anyone for that. St. Mother Teresa convinced me years ago to receive on the tongue as she did. I just figured it would be good for me to follow her example. Pray about it and let the Lord touch your heart. God bless !

@Jarek_73

3 жыл бұрын

Don´t want to sound too harsh but do you really think that such trivial detail is important? God is observing you during an exact ritual and at the same time overlooking hungry children in refugee camps? Does it make sense? Surely not to me. God is not a humanish being dwelling here all the time watching your every step, though people think so, mainly those who are doing very well. The only thing God can "see" from you, not here and not now, is your soul. The sole reason of any religion (all of them can lead to that) is to keep peoples souls clean so they could "reach" God once they leave bodies. Because people are extremely unstable they need to follow some rituals and commands to keep themselves in the desired state - without sins - bacuse sins destroy soul, some of them irreversibly. If you can keep your soul clean without these rituals (highely unlikely) you will still reach the original state from which you were created (lets call it return to God). It means that it is utterly unimportant in which way you do a ritual which keeps you close to your Lord. If only my English was better to explain it properly.... Anyway, this is my POV and I am totally aware that radical Christians will never believe that anybody can reach "heaven" without baptism and other sacraments. It must be possible, IMO, because God created all people and not all are Christians. It is out of the question that decent God followers, or even decent people, should be rejected from " entering heaven" just beacuse they didn´t practiced some specific spiritual acts. It defies any logic for me. So please don´t worry about this detail. If you seek God and respect (or even love) others, you are on the best way to see Him one day when your time on Earth is over.

@blacoustic428

3 жыл бұрын

Here is Church Father St. Basil the Great on Communion - classicalchristianity.com/2013/05/22/st-basil-concerning-communion/

@catholicdisciple3232

3 жыл бұрын

@@tomthx5804 I won't engage in this thread. You need to more accurately inform yourself on these "nutcases" and be able to use charity and understanding (virtues) to see past a tough facade and extract the core issues at hand. Peace.

@ferventcatholic5555

3 жыл бұрын

For me, the concern with receiving in the hand has always been the potential for abuse of particles. The laity does not ablute their fingers, so it's possible for particles of the Eucharist to get lost. That's a hard thing for many of us to accept.

The animal also perishes if it does not recognises its mistakes. This is humility

Thank you!