I’m very troubled by this video. I am a trauma and abuse survivor, and neurofeedback therapy quite literally saved my life. I went from experiencing depression, addiction, psychological meltdowns and the need for inpatient hospitalization for an eating disorder to becoming a strong, centered and happy person at peace with myself and others. I am fundamentally and permanently changed. And I honestly owe it all to the NF training. All I want now is for other people to be able to experience the same thing and be saved if they need it. And no I am not paid by the NF “industry” or whatever hahah... I thought it was hoaky too at first - but if I had not done it, I would probably not be alive today. That is the reality. The truth is that the keys to the treatment being successful are to have a NF practitioner who is skilled and experienced in trauma and/or psychology and who actually knows what he or she is doing - and to make the treatment more accessible via insurance coverage, affordability, and awareness etc. I just wish people would refrain from posting videos that like this that paint a skeptical and misleading picture of NF, as doing so may dissuade people from pursuing this option in the first place. If I hadn’t done so, I shudder to think where I would be now... and I don’t want that for anyone else. So while there are no absolute guarantees, there is a lot of reason for hope, people!! 😃

@SeanCaldwellvo

5 жыл бұрын

Mike, can you give an idea of how many session and about what it cost with or without insurance?

@kevinwkaufman56

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Mike. Can you tell me: did you do it at home or with a therapist? (If at home, can you tell me from whom you rented the equipment?)

@omsnaga

4 жыл бұрын

I'm so glad it worked out for you!

@Rabbitthat

4 жыл бұрын

No one can get rich from this so no big studies have been funded. The studes that didn't find a result were usually on neurotypical people, most studies did find it helped but sci show is just saying they were small and more are needed. If someone could patent this there would be huge massive funding and studies done on it, it's just that EEG is free technology, so there is no motivation for companies to fund studies. If you just go by amazon reviews of home feedback kits it looks initially like 42% of reviewers found it subjectively helpful, but when you read the negative reviews you realize that their devices were broken, so they didn't actually get neurofeedback. That's a waaaay better percentage than say, expensive homeopathy, which we know is a placebo. EEG machines are so cheap for a company to buy, every psychotherapy practice could have one.

@Moeeex

4 жыл бұрын

i felt offended by watching her presentation of the technology even though i haven't done any clinical neurofeedback therapy. but i have seen the potential it has by similar activities such as listening to alpha wave music and things of that sort. more often than not they work more effectively than my prescribed medications.

Neurofeedback did wonders for my ADD. I couldn't focus even if my life would depend on it. I f i try to read a book or an article, i would doze off pretty quickly and had to reread everything. About 35 sessions of neurofeedback changed this completely. I can't say that it will work for everybody but is sure worked for me. Now i read everyday and couldn't be happier.

@LapisGarter

5 жыл бұрын

What exactly changed? What stops you dozing off now?

@jhmmgf4236

5 жыл бұрын

How long since you had the treatment?How long do the results last?

@demode45ttcccgsjwjuxgxjehr49

4 жыл бұрын

How old were you?

@userMB1

4 жыл бұрын

@@demode45ttcccgsjwjuxgxjehr49 i was around 30 when i started neurofeedback

@lebest8415

3 жыл бұрын

@@userMB1 Do the result last?

What is Neruofeedback Therapy? Well it is the therapy I have been using for the past 2 years for anxiety, ocd, and depression. Results for anxiety are amazing, still working on the other two.

@Rabbitthat

4 жыл бұрын

6 months on, how's it going? Is it more expensive than talk therapy? It seems like it would require the technician to have less training, so maybe someday it will be freely available to everyone! I hope!

@squamish4244

3 жыл бұрын

@@Rabbitthat It is about as expensive as talk therapy where I live near Toronto, Canada, and way more effective. $170/session. The technician is a neuropsychologist though, so he has a lot of training. There are now self-regulating neurofeedback devices out there that people can rent and have shipped to them if they can't access anything local. They are also somewhat less expensive to use. (E.g. $90/session in my area.)

@conman20000

3 жыл бұрын

you sure it wasn't just placebo effect?

@EveloGrave

3 жыл бұрын

@@conman20000 Yes because I tend to assume nothing ever works for me so when there is noticeable change I will likely attribute it to other causes which can be ruled out. Doing Neurofeedback Therapy I learned that it did not help with depression or ocd.

@conman20000

3 жыл бұрын

@@EveloGrave can you tell me what changed

I had a neurofeedback session today and I had an anxiety attack while I was doing the initial part and the feedback greatly reduced my anxiety. It was super obvious the effects for the rest of the day. My reading speed went way up and I felt no anxiety in environments with lots of loud shouting (my brothers debating politics). It believe does really matter the dr though. I went to one of the best there is. Decyphering the waves is more art than science at the moment and some neurofeedback practioners run the program and don't read raw QEEGs

I did neurofeedback and biofeedback (brainwaves and heart rate) for anxiety/PTSD and it worked!

@airplayn

5 жыл бұрын

And you went in EXPECTING it to work. Your results could very well be due to the placebo effect. If we based acceptance of a proposed treatment by using testimony on results from unqualified recipients then even psychics, who have fooled millions of people into believing their power, would be mainstream too. ;-) EMDR is another therapy that has been hyped past anything like the original. The person behind EMDR first said it was something anyone could do for themselves while walking down the street. AND the studies "proving" it's efficacy only compared clinical results with UNTREATED people instead of a control group that underwent , a shame therapy to weed out the placebo effect. They could have gotten better from just talking to the EMDR therapist, while the control talked to NOBODY! Of course the first group would show some improvement merely due to the placebo effect. And that once simple "do it yourself" original EMDR therapy has expanded into a multi-million dollar cash cow for the developer through an organization that requires FIVE levels of training and "certification".

@NotHPotter

5 жыл бұрын

@@airplayn You'll probably have greater success is you avoid using all caps to emphasize words. It makes even solid points look overdone.

@SeanCaldwellvo

5 жыл бұрын

@@airplayn Tim, I've gone in expecting different modes of treatment to work, yet some of them did and some of them didn't. After reading this book, The Body Keeps the Score, amzn.to/2N0KohC, I'm confident EMDR and others can bring benefits to many people. The controlled studies on PTSD patients took it out of the quack zone for me. I'm just getting to the section of the book that talks about neurofeedback and the author says it is showing promise and more studies are needed. He has personally seen it work wonders on certain people that other treatments were not successful.

@moshetelesh2503

3 жыл бұрын

Hi!Which doctor did you see

@norbaitijamaludin4728

3 жыл бұрын

how much the cost? :(

My girlfriend is about to start neurofeedback so I wanted to research it a bit. This video admits some Analyses has found it to be effective but DOESN"T spend one second breaking down their findings yet they fully explain the results from those who say it doesn't work. Moving on to the next video.

@knoby5889

Жыл бұрын

so after it being a year, any difference ? looking into it because my boyfriend wants to do it but i’m scared

@Madar.589

8 ай бұрын

سلام من از کشور ایران هستم ایا دوست دختر شما خوب شد؟لطفا راهنمایی کنید چون من هم هزینه زیادی باید بدهم تا انجامش بدهم برای استرس

I did neurofeedback therapy after a traumatic brain injury and it was really nice. During the therapy I could sit, listen to the calming music, do homework or read or work on personal writing projects, and relax for a while. We saw some definite improvement/difference in whatever the neurofeedback was measuring for. I also did hyperbaric oxygen treatment, another slightly-controversial treatment for brain injuries, and that one had great results too. I don't know which of my many therapies helped to what degree, but I'm very glad I did them all because I was able to heal :)

@aishadebose-clark5935

3 жыл бұрын

Same with my son, he’s done HBOT after anoxic brain damage and I’ve seen some progress, I’m looking into Neuro feedback

@conman20000

3 жыл бұрын

you sure it wasn't just placebo effect?

@evelynellsworth6211

3 жыл бұрын

@@conman20000 idk maybe

@CG_Lord

2 жыл бұрын

What were all the therapies you did?

@evelynellsworth6211

2 жыл бұрын

@@CG_Lord the two I mentioned of neurofeedback and hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and then the standard physical, occupational, and speech therapies, both in-patient and out-patient

Would love to see a video on Low Energy Neurofeedback System (LENS). It does away with the whole objective brainwave/reward thing and focuses on electrical feedback. It helped ridiculously well for my ADHD.

@exploration8259

4 жыл бұрын

Like electrical cranial stimulation?

@TonySopranoat16

5 ай бұрын

@@exploration8259tDCS

you mean plastic as in plastic, but not plastic.

@veryhighqualityreviews433

5 жыл бұрын

I would have said Plastic, but yeah, Plastic works.

@Babarudra

5 жыл бұрын

Oh, now see. I hadn't even thought about capitalizing. Maybe that's where the difference lies. Plastic vs plastic.

Maybe I should try it.. because my wife's strategy of retraining me with audio feedback just isn't working.

@aknc1363

4 жыл бұрын

Lol😂😂😅

@angiemiles3633

3 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

How are there even that many studies without a placebo group? Why would they even do them if they're flawed from the beginning?

@teamgb5756

5 жыл бұрын

As with every branch of science nowadays, pressure to publish new and interesting results fast, or risking not getting funded is the cause. You can be assured scientists want to do sound science, but just can't.

@Spikeygal

5 жыл бұрын

@@teamgb5756 I don't think that's the case, actually. I think a lot of these studies are likely done by labs that are curious about it in passing and don't really care enough to control properly (like some labs I've been in), or they're funded by companies trying to sell neurofeedback tech.

@bobthegoat7090

5 жыл бұрын

@@Spikeygal I don't disagree with you but the studies they mentioned in the meta-analysis specifically didn't have any connection to a neurofeedback company

@reidfleming5548

3 жыл бұрын

@@Spikeygal you're exactly right. I just did it, and it's a complete scam. The fact that people are going to this instead of real help is disturbing

@hotfishnchips90

3 жыл бұрын

@@reidfleming5548 it isn't a scam at all. It takes time and persistence to retrain the brain or induce any neural changes, it isn't a quick fix. It will also help to get brainwaves back under control enough to either help symptoms become manageable or improve to the point the individual can now think functionally enough to get benefits from traditional therapy. 30 mins sessions for 30 sessions is the normal amount of time we see changes that can be permanent at. It takes an effort to engage in the therapy to work, you won't get anything out of the first ten sessions because your brain hasn't learnt how to stay locked into the more beneficial brainwaves yet. Besides the fact it doesn't work for 100% of people but it's a hell of a lot better to try and seek a drug free alternative. It also usually helps in cases where the brain function is too dysfunctional for rational reflective thought. I work in a clinic that uses traditional based therapy in combination with neuro as an alternative to drugs and find your comment disgusting. I've seen with my own eyes hundreds of cases where people had been doing traditional therapy and using drugs for years and were on their last legs do neurofeedback and completely change their lives and be able to get off of drugs and go do things like study Phd's when years earlier they couldn't leave their apartment due to a number of reasons such as epilepsy or anxiety... Disgraceful

I had to do neurofeedback therapy for a while, and it was awful. It just wouldn't work for me, and the staff couldn't tell me what I was doing wrong, just that I was terrible at it. Glad to know that maybe that wasn't all on me

@mikecole9676

5 жыл бұрын

Andy M sounds like you had a very bad trainer. In my experience, NF is extremely effective, but it’s necessary to have a staff member practitioner who actually knows what they’re doing (and not telling you you are “terrible” at it...?!). Best of luck!!!

@omsnaga

4 жыл бұрын

Maybe it depends on what you do it for? I am so curious to find out more about the specifics, hope they do a real peer reviewed study soon.

@bubblegum6400

4 жыл бұрын

@@mikecole9676 mine just hooks me up and sometimes do tapping or talking ..she does not guide me or tell me what the waves mean..does this mean that she doesn't really know what she's doing ?

@tiffanystout1627

3 жыл бұрын

Rea, I am a therapist in training (not neurofeedback, just normal (well okay I am trained in EMDR that's beside my point)) In my experience, there is not a single therapy that works for everyone. You probably did nothing wrong. I feel I need to stress that, YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. This was just not your method of healing. Obviously, it has been working for some people but maybe you are the type to utilize art therapy or equine-assisted therapy. Maybe you need acupuncture or massage therapy. Regardless of your modality, one not working makes you more human than anything else. Keep looking. Youll find your way to healing.

@intravenousradio

3 жыл бұрын

Rea not every neurofeedback practitioner is the same and some methods differ. I urge you to find a different therapist. Neurofeedback is really helping me a ton to heal from cptsd, addiction, and brain injury. It really works.

I was a guinea pig for a Neurofeedback study in grad school for my ADHD. I agree about the ambiguity of whether it worked.

1:43 That sounds like a very expensive and complicated way to basically just... meditate

@pyrotheevilplatypus

5 жыл бұрын

And books were a very expensive and complicated way to basically just...tell campfire stories.

@lindenbree9188

5 жыл бұрын

​@@pyrotheevilplatypus Not sure if joke or not but uh... no. You can't orally tell a 300 page story with 100% word accuracy without a /lot/ of practice. And even then most people won't have the time to listen through the whole thing in one go. And if you want to retell someone else's story, an author you never met, you're basically screwed because you can't confirm what their original words really were. Focusing on calming yourself down though? That can be done by anyone, anywhere. And since it's personal, you don't have an issue like trying to accurately retell someone else's story.

@kathleenlizarraga3647

5 жыл бұрын

Mm, I see your point but also i would think having something to look at so a person can see what may make a change, may help someone. Like learning anything the more senses you include in an activity the higher the change of effect.

@lindenbree9188

5 жыл бұрын

@@kathleenlizarraga3647 First, thanks for bringing up an actual counterpoint! Second, I agree, it could help for sure and possibly even help more quickly than old-fashioned methods. However, I still think it's overkill for the specific exercise of calming down though. If neurofeedback therapy helps people get to a point where they can stay calm on their own in most situations, good for them! I think way more accessible options like meditation should at least be tried first though. I'd hate to see people blow out their wallet on stuff like this if they could have gotten a resolution with simpler, and free methods.

@kathleenlizarraga3647

5 жыл бұрын

@@lindenbree9188 yes i agree, more accessable options are probably the way to go, especially when it comes to money. Maybe this could be used like a physio session or two, where you learn what to do and how, then you go home or to a yoga studio or where-ever and do it on your own.

May work if you could identify wave patterns associated with the symptoms being treated in a patient. For that you’d need a portable EEG though to monitor activity in your daily activities.

Nothing wrong with more research but it would have been cool to see a video that speculates about this and its potential a little more than the criticisms

@LuigiTrapanese

4 жыл бұрын

If there are no proofs that it works, they can't just make up for those

@reidfleming5548

3 жыл бұрын

@@LuigiTrapanese thank you. They almost scammed me

@garysimone4977

3 жыл бұрын

@@reidfleming5548 hey no scam,,i seen it for myself people are helped a ton,,

@Hana-ri1nb

Жыл бұрын

@@garysimone4977 yea sure Neuro linguistic programming "helped" people too with its placebo

@garysimone4977

Жыл бұрын

@@Hana-ri1nb hey as Wayne Dyer said..If placebo so what ..ya feel better great

Glad to see this. Would like to see a video on brainspotting and emdr too

I worked for a neurofeedback office and that's the one question they couldn't answer is, "What constitutes a "normal" brain wave pattern?" Everyone is so different and the mind is what makes people unique. I wouldn't go messing with that, especially for the exorbitant price it costs for a single session, let alone multiple appointments, and it wasn't covered by insurance.

@facetious_1

4 ай бұрын

I agree , but when you factor in, placing a child on level 2 narcotics, and turning them into a functional drug addict, with no end in sight, for zero lasting effects....its a tough decision to make.

I had problems with overthinking. I would think about the same thoughts the entire day. Neurofeedback literally saved me. It's very expensive but personally I was lucky that my mom is a neurotherapist so I do neurofeedback at home for free. Even though it's expensive it really pays out and I recommend it to everyone.

@Rajvosa-wg7pu

3 жыл бұрын

@@humankia2772 For sure. It helped all my mothers patients so I can confirm that it's not a scam or something like that. If that's your concern

@conman20000

3 жыл бұрын

you sure it wasn't just placebo effect?

@aimeebelinda6288

10 ай бұрын

How expensive is it?

@Madar.589

8 ай бұрын

سلام لطفا من را راهنمایی کنید من هم امروز اولین جلسه نوروفیدبک را انجام دادم انها گفتند استرس خیلی خیلی زیادی دارم

The observer-expectancy effect is probably an issue with this treatment.

@bruserker

3 жыл бұрын

Indeed, it is. As a rule of thumb, you should avoid to “try”, “think”, judge, analyze or to become frustated while doing NFB trainings/sessions. The more you “get out of the way” of your brain the better will be the results (this is really important because it is in fact your brain that participates mostly on the learning processes - not yourself or your “mind”). The only thing you should worry is if you are paying the proper attention on the feedback being received. Being able to keep relaxed and “to be on the present moment” during the trainings (some professionals integrate mindfulness techniques with NFB, and the results are wonderful) is a plus, but it is not always possible to do both of these things... thus paying the proper attention only would suffice...

Can you make a video to ASMR and the science behind it? Like how does it work and why?

@pettender4229

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, please!

i think there is something of a judgement call when it comes to deciding which wave patterns are desirable or not. but that doesnt mean those judgements cant be useful

The fear of the status quo changing in mental health is felt through this video - create confusion on a topic and you can create fear. Neurofeedback is one of the newest fields in mental health, starting in the 1960s, there is still much research to do - but the difference in research is that we have quantifiable data - since it is highly based on data that is measurable with the frequencies of the brainwaves. The data is objective - and not solely based on the subjective notion of clinicians (which can be filled with biases) We use numbers to make decisions. Since it is new compared to other fields within neuroscience it is still progressing through the research - not to mention artificial intelligence in now being incorporated to it. I look forward to the future where human beings are given options to the treatments available to them. I look forward to a future where holistic therapeutic interventions are seen as valid and effective. My question is who does it NOT benefit for people having options ?

I just read Johann Hari's book Lost Connections. A lot of us are depressed for the same reasons. We need to make societal changes for all of us to preempt depression instead of just treating this like an individual per person problem. Read it, yo! Let's prevent it in the first place.

I wonder if this video being posted today has anything to do with the latest episode of Grey's anatomy or the one before. Could it be that it was posted today due to it being a good moment thanks to people who watch Grey's Anatomy looking up the therapy (or "therapy") one of the characters is undergoing?

I think if we can tell that someone's heart isn't functioning well using ecg, we can do the same with by eeg. The principle is really the same. I'm pretty sure that the brain has regular and irregular patterns that can be studied.

Who's favorite movie is slowly moving lightsabers?

@angiemiles3633

3 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

As a long time scishow patron, this genuinely makes me question the credibility of all the series for extreme bias. While yes, this is still a new methodology and some procedures of the method are better than the other, this is sound science. From someone with a degree in psychology, in addition to undergoing neurfoeedback therapy to work through PTSD, this tech is life changing. While poo-pooing the science behind it, this could damage so many future results. As all types of treatments for diseases and conditions, the effect varies per person. But biologoically, there are structural changes that have proven to take place from fMRI, especially those with panic or anxiety driven conditions. Neurofeedback has completely changed my life. The structure(s) of my brain I was convinced I just didnt have (as many with CPTSD and PTSD have smaller versions of) is now not only existent, but thriving. I am one case of many, and I hope that scishow chooses to do a follow up show that isn't so skeptical and bias. Shame on you scishow, maybe next time show both sides of the data without dismissing results.

@SeanCaldwellvo

5 жыл бұрын

Sami, how many sessions did you do and can you share the cost with or without insurance?

@conman20000

3 жыл бұрын

you sure it wasn't just placebo effect?

@samiroby3063

3 жыл бұрын

We have medicaid and they covered it. And even if it is a placebo effect (which I don't believe based on overall improvements in thoughts) does it matter if it's helped? Like if it helps someone get better what does it matter?

@conman20000

3 жыл бұрын

@@samiroby3063 how did you get them to cover it?

@samiroby3063

3 жыл бұрын

@@conman20000 I'm not sure? It's just the way my therapist codes it. We do regular counseling too. But the clinic takes medicaid. Tho we have to apply for more sessions and such. I'm also in Colorado so that may be a factor

I really like the idea of neurofeedback, at least the reward and neural plasticity part. The problem as I saw it was if we could detect abnormal behavior. Then I came to think; can't you use other factors to detect anxiety. I mean you much better predict if a person is anxious just by measuring their heart rate. Shouldn't that work and then we can at least show if you really can control neural plasticity EDIT: Apparently that is just called biofeedback

@Submersed24

2 жыл бұрын

Heart rate and neurofeedback are way different though. Controlling heart rate is a symptom of the source. Brain waves are the source

I did 17 sessions of neurofeed back and apparently did the adverse effect i got a pop in the back of my head from the semi conductors or electrodes and the pain never went away. It grew into a tensional pain radiating down to my neck and over time down my back and now i am fully burnt out suffering from tension depression and anxiety. i use to b so talented and now i live a life in deep depression anxiety pain and suffering ppl dont seem to know what happened to me . they cannot understand how someone can change so drastically . I am practically like a zombie

@hermilogarcia7510

Жыл бұрын

Sorry to hear that.....I send you positive vibes. Keep going, and don't quit on finding things to make you feel better.

@grv91vr23

Жыл бұрын

Is this really possible… how are you these days?

@Madar.589

8 ай бұрын

اوه واقعا

I would like to see an episode on biofeedback.

How do you know it's not just the placebo effect making people feel better.

Im 3 sessions into my neurofeedback therapy. Hoping it helps with anxiety, ocd, depression Ill try to provide an update around the 20th session, which was the minimum reccomended number pf sessions by my practitioner.

I would like to see the distinctions between neuro and biofeedback studies. The latter seems less susceptible to subjective noramlity biases

@dmarsub

5 жыл бұрын

Biofeedback is one of the reasons for me to think there is a lot of potential in neurofeedback. The point is not to "make someonr neurotypical" thr point is to let them discover a "muscle" in gheir brain they can use to get into a relaxed and focused state quickly. Its a great meditation training with more specialised brain states and a lot more accessable. (And supportet with a trainer/therapist)

This topic of research should be revisited and updated.

Why wouldn't they just use brainwaves images from when the patient is in a state of focus or a good mental state and use that as baseline for what they want the brainwaves to look like?

@garysimone4977

3 жыл бұрын

immpossible to do

Ive had one session of neuro feedback and it seemed like it was just a deep breathing exercise. Neuro feedback isnt available in my city. If I want to do this programme I have to fly from my city to where the neuro feedback practicioner is. So the flights, accomodation and therapy is going to be expensive. Im nervous its all for a deep breathing exercise.

I have never clicked on a thumbs down icon. I did not like this video. I’m doing treatments right now to help with my depression and anxiety. Don’t take my hope away. My friends have use it and it worked for them. I did hear in your video and suggestions what would help. It’s a hopeless video. It is not easy dealing with depression and anxiety.

Tnx

neurofeedback practitioners first establish a baseline of what is normal FOR THE INDIVIDUAL, when they're in a calm state, and they work from there. Of course there is a lot of variation in brain waves, and they're not trying to get everyone to apply to some mean brain wave function.

I don't think this person really understands NF? This video shows a VERY immature and rudimentary understanding of how NF works and what it does.

@debanjanborthakur4321

2 жыл бұрын

hmm, there is more pessimism in the video.

@ems7623

Жыл бұрын

She's boiling down and summarizing the current science published in peer reviewed journals. Sorry she isn't confirming your preconceptions

I’ll be trying it soon

I tried this one! Didn't work for me though...

It obviously difficult to say neuro feedback is good or bad ; the idea of seeing your own brain waves is a mixed bad of affects. Patients need specifically designed modulations of this technology to grant more merit

I once heard disturbing sounds after receiving treatment. High pitched like. Has this ever been found?

@Madar.589

8 ай бұрын

سلام ایا تو خوب شدی پس از نورو درمانی؟

Am about to try it.

Need a followup to this vid

Don't I recall that part of scientology used very crude forms of this to pretend they could "fix" their followers. The degree of getting"fixed" was closely tied to how much money the follower was willing to pay. ;)

@zesky6654

11 ай бұрын

Not really, the Scientology device basically measures how sweaty your palms are. This does actual brain measurements.

Interesting video. It seems plausible that beneficial pathways could be strengthened with practice using some sort of biofeedback. EEG might not have high enough resolution, but maybe working with the electrical signals in the brain as measured at the scalp is enough detail. I am wondering if there are known brainwave patterns that are common among people with mental health issues? If so, it seems that practice with something like this could help train the brain to use less symptomatic pathways. There are types of brainwaves that have been observed while very experienced mediators are meditating. There are types of meditation that have been known to be good for mental health. If a biofeedback system could be calibrated so that the person could be trained to achieve the beneficial brainwaves associated with such a type of meditation, it might help the person achieve the beneficial brainwave state. I am also wondering if you have any videos on binaural beats? The premise is that certain brainwave patterns are good for different states of mind (wakefulness, sleep, calm, focused, for example). These brain waves are not a frequency we can hear. People have created audio that they suggest can induce the brainwaves of such states of mind by playing one frequency in one ear and a different frequency in the other ear. The difference in frequencies is the frequency of the brainwaves associated with the desired state. The difference in frequencies, by constructive and destructive interference makes the tones wobble, like a beat (that's why it is called binaural beats: two tones causing a beat) I think I have heard that research about binaural beats has mostly been done by people creating the audio. I am wondering if brainwaves can be influenced this way?

I don’t get it. So if a person did bad things and lives a life of shame, blame, guilt - how does a NF session spark these moments that affect them? I.e. just wanting to watch Star Wars is enough to calm down. But trigger a bad memory isn’t something they want to do at will.

Is this the same thing as brain mapping?

Hmm. I have been considering this. At first I was very put off by the negativity of this video but I then decided to dive into some literature on the subject. I'm honestly really disappointed to find that this really seems to be the scientific concensus. I don't discount any positive testimonials, I also don't doubt that this form of therapy may still have real potential, but as it currently stands, the more I look into it, the more it looks like unsupported alternative medicine. (But hey, people swear by that too, so while I'm happy to hear success stories, I have also heard similar stories about other forms of pseudoscience, so it's ultimately unconvincing. The placebo effect and confirmation bias is a powerful and medically significant thing, but not supportive in the end.)

@ems7623

Жыл бұрын

I think if it could work, it's not "ready for primetime" yet. Perhaps when neuroscience and psychology coverage more in the future (once we understand the brain far better), it could be revised into something practical

Thank you, nice to see this after Kati Morton spotlighted that clinic that used it. It took me 30sec of research to find out this "incredible treatment" that Kati left entirely unchallenged is probably too good to be true

Neuro didn't work for me. I did it for over a year weekly and my psychiatrist said that I was doing 'amazing'. But it didn't help with my anxiety and panic attacks at all.

@reidfleming5548

3 жыл бұрын

It's such a scam dude. I hope you're doing well

@shauni7218

3 жыл бұрын

@@reidfleming5548 I'm doing okay given the circumstances. I just find and found it so frustrating at the time because I genuinely thought I was doing something wrong or that my brain was just giving false signals or something but it just genuinely was useless for me. No progress whatsoever. Every time after a session I left the room even more defeated and down than before which is why I eventually stopped going.

@Submersed24

2 жыл бұрын

Just want to put this out- I made sure to NOT go to a psychiatrist. I went to a neurologist that was the best in the field. The reason this is different is because my neurologist read the QEEGs raw. Other practitioners run a program and use presets. Experience and expertise really does matter in my opinion. Dr Andrew hill is the only one id go to so far because he's the lead in research. I did one session so far and my anxiety(which is usually constant) is gone.

@ems7623

Жыл бұрын

A year is a long time to see no results.

@ems7623

Жыл бұрын

@@Submersed24 Considering how shaky the science is, you might just be choosing the person most likely to have a biased view of NF

1:13 I enjoy eating eegs

Isn't this just like meditation ??

@Call-me-Al

5 жыл бұрын

Ehh not quite, but it has been used with meditation! In order to get better at meditating for those with difficulties with meditating and the money to spend on neurofeedback

I think this video, despite meaning well, suffers from a fundamental bias in its approach. These difficult to study, and categorically under funded types of research and treatment are very difficult to approach objectively. The issue here is that the authors make the mistake of finding principle flaws with insufficient information about the topic. || The therapy process is actually based on using EEG as a tool to provide a new mode of sensory input in a way to gain real-time awareness of mood/concentration. There is no assumption of wrong or right frequencies, and the goal is not to fix the EEG spectrum. The brain is really good at learning to automate and regulate, with any mode of sensory input. That's how we learn to walk, combining multi-modal sensory data (motor system, ear canals for balance, visual, etc.). We do not have a way of knowing the mood or level of concentration in that manner. For the individuals that this type of treatment is used, mood regulation is not a sufficiently regulated function. I think there is a lot of potential in this area. It's very much like meditation. Hard to study and initially fringe. But it's the brain healing itself. Eventually proven to alter brain function and even structure (physically) and one of the most effective ways to treat depression, etc. That being said, this field is far from established and settled. Biggest challenges come from EEG just being too blunt a probe. It's very high resolution temporally, but very low resolution spatially. Using such a tool requires a lot of heuristics and intuitive interpretation of the therapist. It is almost ad-hoc completely in that way. But those are things that need to be worked on.

It sounds really similar to how machine learning models work. Give the brain a goal, when the brain achieves the goal give a reward, repeat

@Madar.589

8 ай бұрын

سلام من از کشور ایران هستم و بسیار کنجکاوم بدانم نوروفیدبک چه کاربردی دارد قابل ذکر است که در ایران هزینه بالایی دارد

I practice Neurofeedback, and do not train people to a norm. So this is false information. Only z-score neurofeedback train towards a norm, not amplitude training. And science is more solid then what she claims

Seems to be a controversial topic, but your presentation seems balanced & clear.

Positive or negative feedback? It's kind of important. If you see that you're anxious it might just make it worse.

@ems7623

Жыл бұрын

I don't think that's true about anxiety.

What's your elbow tat say?

Worse part is IF it has a Placebo affect, then Shut Up with your opinion that it is… Just be glad a person is better! Could you imagine now the fact that bashing this even if placebo, you keep a person jn a sad PSTD state? Or could remove the work they paid for?

Seems like a great area for AI to be used. Use a monitoring system that reads brainwaves over a period of time while monitoring things like blood pressure associated with anxiety or perhaps eye tracking for some attention deficits in order to establish a baseline and then use AI to work out what is normal, what is symptomatic and what method of self correction is most effective for each individual. Over time a good AI program should be able to predict behaviours or problems before there are any outward signs and help people correct the problem before they even get to the point of realising they are starting to have the problem. So the studies might not be perfect yet, but clearly seems worth persuing.

@exploration8259

4 жыл бұрын

Machine learning is being applied in this field. The person in this video snears at the term "normal" which is telling, but what meant normal in that fielf is what machine learning algorithms have picked out from many samples for z training, which is applied to people who have profound issues which reduce the quality of life. Machine learning has been applied to brain samples of very successful individuals, these learnings have been used to increase the performance in others.

Thank you

Neuro feedback has helped me so much! But has been soooo expensive lol but worth it to me!

No one knows how anaesthesia works, but still it is used due to its results. And medication don´t always work the same for all people, but still it has been the to go to-solution in so many health problems for decades. But, yeah, more research is always good, but this video seems to be a bit biased.

Remember, kids: If you manage to build your house on solid foundations, don't use sand as the building material.

I've heard it's not really about correcting anything. But you identifying a behaviour you want better control of to reduce the suffering in your life. It moves away from the need to diagnose a huge illness before you can access help. I found the opening to this video quite slanted and it made it hard to trust what was said later in the video. I have my own bias because this is the philosophically healthy treatment option for autistic people, like myself, in years.

I don't think this person did the research about what it is. She's got it wrong. However if her summary of what it is was right then I'd agree with her.

I love how your script writers remain open to the potential of new studies while also being clear of their research limitations.Thank you for another excellent episode. [:

Great video-balanced and seemingly unbiased thank you.

But does it work on chickens?

@L39T

5 жыл бұрын

Only the fried ones.

Doctors use many medical procedures and off-label prescriptions because they see positive outcomes, but which were never subject to the experimental protocols the presenter finds worthy. While it would certainly be good for science to see rigorous studies, she seems almost gleefully ready to dismiss potential benefit because the research doesn't measure up to her standards.When she seemed to deny the existence of normal brainwave patterns, I decided she was more interested in being right than being objective.

Hmm, this video did not explain this well unfortunately. Neurofeedback is used to heal the part of the brain for self-care (sometimes called the lizard brain). This part is damaged during abuse/trauma. It’s the reason that talk therapy alone can’t heal some people. Talk therapy works in a completely different part of the brain. So, I would try neurofeedback before shock therapy, for example.

@ems7623

Жыл бұрын

That's ... Way off

This woman could totally nail a gig in pharmaceutical advertising; they'd be all over her. But, you know, neurofeedback? Not the best move. It might accidentally deflate her ego and, heaven forbid, expand her mind a bit too much. (Apologies for the sarcasm; still a work in progress on my end.) Having lived with ADHD my entire life, I've found Adderall to be the only thing that helped me function. Similarly, family members grappling with ADHD and depression have relied on antidepressants. Surprisingly, after less than ten neurofeedback sessions, both they and I have been able to cease medication and live more authentically and freely than ever before. I'm eager to witness how this will further enrich our lives.

The Human Condition link doesn’t work, so if you’re paying KZread get your money back!

No miss, they're not "enforcing a subjective standard", there are a range of brainwaves, each associated with specific emotional states. For example, alpha brainwaves(9-13 Hz) are associated with calmness & relaxation. People with anxiety have "high beta" brainwaves that move faster than the alpha ones. So the practitioners are just training the brain to stay in an alpha state in order to curb the anxiety.

what about fMRIs?

@eritain

5 жыл бұрын

Hugely more expensive than EEG, both in overhead costs and per-patient, and although it can detect changes in total activity, it can't detect changes in rhythm.

@elgracko

5 жыл бұрын

@@eritain really. Did not know that, thanks. Theoretically, could it be used for neurofeedback, you think?

@thatismostillogical

4 жыл бұрын

@@elgracko It can actually! And several studies have used fMRI for neurofeedback. The main issue, aside from what Nathan pointed out, is that the signal they measure is delayed by several seconds as the blood takes time to reach the active area/s of the brain, which isn't great when you want to target activity that can change extremely quickly (which EEG can detect within milliseconds). However, it is useful for targeting deep as well as specific structures of the brain compared to EEG which doesn't have great spatial resolution and tends to mainly measure cortical surface activity.

I didn't switch back and forth between a movie and something else. They just altered the way the movie looked. They didn't try to have my feelings associate with the way the screen looked, in a way I could consciously manage.

Everytime she says neurofeedback replace it with psychoactive drugs and you have an equally accurate video.

very misleading title. should be : "why i think neurofeedback is maybe not a valid treatment." besides, NASA uses in training astronauts. that must indicate some effectiveness

@Submersed24

2 жыл бұрын

It definitely worked for me. It really matters who you go to though. You need someone with expertise

Inception. With great power comes great responsibility. Fear not the technology but the "humans" that wield it.

To critically speak about any medical method you need to have a minimum medical college degree

as someone with adhd i dont think i will be doing this ...

@reidfleming5548

3 жыл бұрын

Good!!

That seemed like a very self-evident conclusion. As soon as you mentioned 'normal' your entire argument failed.

It would be pretty fun to see a neural network determine whether a brain wave pattern is good or not. Neural networks are extremely good at pattern recognition. And it would be pretty meta to have artificial neural networks help study biological neural networks.

@Submersed24

2 жыл бұрын

That's why I went to a neurologist and not a psychologist for my neurofeedback. I think reading a qeeg is essential because there are things only humans with lots of experience can sift through

A clockwork orange ?

It is profound. Stop misleading many people away from it with only limited rationale as an "argument".

There's a lot of personal anecdotes here but that's not representative of the general population

Oh boy. Where to start with this one. All psychiatric treatment is measured by the patient’s feedback. This includes most prescribed medications. As part of a treatment plan that includes therapy and or medication, there’s no downside to adding this.

You painted the picture very well with your words and communication style and destilled a clear and well structured message out of a woolly mess. Truly impressive! Thanks!

There are a small portion that it will not work on at all completely, can be for a range of reasons etc. not wanting to get better or a number of reasons related to individual differences. That is true like, uh I dunno, EVERY FREAKING THERAPY IN THE WORLD. This is video is terrible, I could give you hundreds of examples in clinical work where traditional therapy was useless for years on trauma and people looked like lost causes. NFT worked and literally saved their lives. It is a lot better, with literally zero side effects to at least try neuro and potentially get beneficial results rather than to resorting straight to drugs and trying to get someone to think themselves out of a hole when their brain is operating way too dysfunctionally on an electrical level for them to be even able to think well enough to have a chance of restructuring their thoughts. It's a much better alternative to drugging people up and completely destroying their brain structure and personality by drugging them out of existence. Some of the results and changes that have happened quite often in Neurofeedback are too special and life changing to ignore. Yes the field needs more research but there have been some good studies that are solid and have produced excellent results. I work in a clinic that uses both traditional discussion based therapy and neurofeedback as an alternative approach to therapy instead of drugs. The life outcomes and changes in peoples' health have been vastly better than the patients we get coming in who are trying their last attempt at getting better because drugs are only dulling them out of existence. It would be a lot more information to focus on the potential benefits of neurofeedback and the potential in results and possible outlook for the future of neuro as the research is still in the infancy stage. You learn in science not to write things off as no good just because the literature hasn't produced the gold yet, this field is one undeniable study away from being introduced to every clinic as normal practice for this. No mention that the DSM-6 formulating psych community is arguing over all the trauma and hyperactive disorders because neurofeedback is showing promise at explaining them all as a trauma resultant dysfunctional brainwave pattern issues that neuro can help significantly improve on more often than not without the need for the less effective and much more harmful drug alternatives.

You're talking about linear, not dynamic. I understand dynamic is much better

i don’t like the way this lady talks about neurofeedback as if she knows how patients feel

Are we seeing a pattern with "psychological research?" Where the group doing the study always finds what they hoped to find?

@Spikeygal

5 жыл бұрын

Not really, though the File Drawer Phenomenon is a thing. That's where mainly positive results are published, and negative findings tend to be discarded.

@ems7623

Жыл бұрын

Not true

They gave me an EEG as a kid. Before that, I never had a blanket of coloured noise in my vision. In natural daylight, it's not bad, but at night I have splotches of ugly greens and oranges in my vision, to the point where it's blinding. It's like a black and white television, but with coloured static. It's obviously a brain problem.

Red flags in this video include titling it as a definition and then spending most of the time discrediting it, and also using tone of voice and the word "supposedly" very often. Someone's got an agenda

Just a week ago my love of my life told me that she don't love me anymore we have a adorable daughter witch is 3 year old. And now it means i will need to move to another house and leave 2 people's i love the most. First 2 nights couldn't sleep and and all sort of thoughts was coming into my head but same time I knew I need to be strong. So I found a person on fb who does Neuroptimal training for a brain i texted her that day and asked her if she could help me. She offered me to come very same evening and i did. We did 2 sessions in 3 h time . ohh myyyy that was a relief. :) . I went back home tired but happy and even put some nice music on the way home instead usual podcasts.. today im going for my 3rd session. And even though of doing Neuroptimal training my self for others.. :) there's a lot people suffering with all sort of depression and in my eyes this thing works :) happy day to all. :)

I’m confused why adhd is but in the same box as depression and anxiety, adhd doesn’t have anything to do with emotions like the other 2, does it?

@nickybobby9317

5 жыл бұрын

As far as we know ADHD is primarily a problem with the dopaminergic system in the brain so the prefrontal cortex has less activity and the brain less dopamine to drive things like motivation and reward for starting and completing tasks so with my brain I operate at a lower energy (I’m usually drowsy enough to fall asleep when bored yet restless enough to roll around in bed for hours when trying to get to sleep and show the physical signs of restlessness like knee bouncing and fidgeting) and generally have a really hard time motivating myself to do anything unless a team is directly dependent on me (I love helping people and it’s only when I’m helping people that I feel fulfilled and find satisfaction in life), I bore myself even with my own interests and how incapable I am to focus on things when every sound around me takes a part of my attention away, added to the aforementioned as well as the difficulty in remembering information depresses the hell out of me, as does the anxiety that partly is the fault of upbringing and partly the fault of trying twice as hard as most people to do half as much and the overthinking that results in me figuring people are criticizing me for such faults as much or more than I criticize myself.