I know it's probably less interesting to watch visually, but I figured it was a useful graphic to include regardless. Hope you enjoy!

@cinnamoncat8950

Ай бұрын

i like having a graphic! even though i usually use your videos like a podcast where i can just listen, having something i can look at but wont lose out on anything by not looking, that makes it nicer when i have the time to do so

@Polar-ized

Ай бұрын

Having a graphic is better than no graphic, I may be listening to most of the video, but I appreciate that you did this for anyone watchin

@lostmyhead8220

Ай бұрын

I like this format

@WilliamStrohmetz

Ай бұрын

I don't even play competitive, and I can already understand and stand by the Cow Mangler not being allowed: In a _competitive_ setting, where coordination is common, this rocket launcher basically invalidates engineer as a class with a coordinated push, which gives Darwin's Danger Shield vibes

The beef people have about the base jumper is that comp people complained about so much that valve changed it, and then the comp people banned it anyway. The only people that were really affected by the change were the casuals who were abusing it in the first place.

@krollic

Ай бұрын

the design of it is appalling regardless. floating in the air being very hard to hit/see while raining down insane damage, especially with the beggars and airstrike

@ambvurt3739

Ай бұрын

@@krollic I wasn't addressing the design, I was addressing the reasoning behind the conflict over the item between competitive and casual bases. I didn't claim it was good or bad.

@twpsyn

Ай бұрын

I don't recall comp players complaining about it, it was banned back then and still is now. valve's reasoning for banning it was that it was too hard to hit people who were abusing it's super high air accel strafe values and unlimited redeploys, they didn't specify that the change was for comp or a result of feedback from comp players

@twpsyn

Ай бұрын

@@ammi5311 per the valve blog post that revealed the base jumper nerf: "These changes are based on online community discussions, emails, playtime data, conversations with players of all skill ranges, and play testing. Please continue to send us your feedback through the Contact Form on the right taskbar (under "Contact Us"). Hearing from you helps us prioritize our work and influences the direction the game moves in." in the entire blog post from June 20th, 2017, competitive is not mentioned once.

@twpsyn

Ай бұрын

@@ammi5311 so you're just imagining that back when valve approached the comp scene in 2015 in preparation for MYM, comp players complained about base jumper and so valve waited until over a year after the comp update released (and valve comp was already fully dead) to nerf the base jumper in 2017 and then they hid that the real reason was because a handful of comp players complained? lmao ok

Its so tragic that Engie only has two secondary unlocks, and *both* of them are some of the worst designed weapons from a game design standpoint in the entire game.

@jadenknott

Ай бұрын

Equally sad when the engineer mains says one of them is (overpowered and believe it needs to be nerfed)

@eruptorr9103

25 күн бұрын

Because the wrangler IS overpowered and deserves to be nerfed 💀 Trippling the health and doubling the dps of a sentry at the press of a button doesn’t exactly scream balance.

@wisdomball4584

17 күн бұрын

​@@eruptorr9103 for real. Like imagine making a sentry so healthy 4 dh rockets don't break it without any repairs.

@artifactU

12 күн бұрын

i think itd be cool if engi could use scouts pistols

@lazulazu2467

4 күн бұрын

the problem with designing secondaries for engi is that hes supposed to be a support class, you cant really give him a purely offensive secondary thats better than the pistol, but you cant give him another support tool to help his buildings because his buildings are already super strong by default and you end up with the wrangler or short circuit

It says a lot about the Crit-a-cola when nobody knows how it works.

@twpsyn

Ай бұрын

in fairness it's been changed so much over the years, I still thought it gave scout a speed boost lmao

@TJ-hg6op

27 күн бұрын

@@twpsynI mean the last time it was changed was like probably half a decade ago.

@NutsackParachute

17 күн бұрын

@@TJ-hg6opyou haven’t changed your diaper in half a decade

@majapaja_

Күн бұрын

​@@TJ-hg6op Newsflash the last time any balance changes at all were implemented was 2017

Ok, but europe would bun the fucking shotgun if it came out in an update. Like, etf2l can be ridiculous

@oiytd5wugho

Ай бұрын

I mean, RGL also bans too much but the they don't piss themselves at the thought of a detonator-jump

@cubanwargaming4879

Ай бұрын

Wait, why would they ban the shotgun if it wasnt a stock weapon?

@oiytd5wugho

Ай бұрын

@@cubanwargaming4879 "They are literally giving the scattergun to half the classes, this is overpowering soldier" or some shit

@danolantern6030

Ай бұрын

@@oiytd5wugho Have they considered that maybe, just maybe, most classes are much more well suited to using their primary weapons rather than the shotgun due to their slowness compared to scout, and should only use them when finishing off an enemy?

@regimiro4888

19 күн бұрын

@@danolantern6030 who is they. no one is saying this except the person youre replying to lol

I would have never thought that I'd look forward to someone talk about competitive tf2 for an hour but here we are

It's funny how Sleeper is banned while most of community sees it as crutch.

@krollic

Ай бұрын

It's banned not because it's terribly strong but because it lowers the quality of the game. It's a weapon that overly incentivizes bodyshots, staying scoped in and covering people in stinky piss. It's not fun to have minicrits applied to you from across the map with relative ease.

@ps-frag

Ай бұрын

​​@@krollicbeing killed across the map is funnier than being covered in piss??????

@krollic

Ай бұрын

@@ps-frag read my comment again

@muti7632

Ай бұрын

its because of the charge rate and makes bodyshotting better than stock

@manunova5929

Ай бұрын

​Have you noticed that in competitive, there are less players and that each is more competent than your regular casual player? 6s specifically is a fast format that can turn around quickly, and the lower playercount makes kills more valuable. Jarate itself is immensely powerful, and considering that it's banned, a tool that would let you coat a player in Jarate IN A COORDINATED TEAM WITH ACTIVE COMMUNICATION is pretty strong if you ask me. You get one kill and the enemy team is immediately at a disadvantage, the condition isn't even a headshot. Ever been in a Casual match with coordinating players? They stomp the other team, especially when abusing certain weapons and maps.

Regarding Fists of Steel, I believe it's not so much about damage reduction, but more about medic getting uber faster when healing heavy with fists of steel even when the weapon is holstered (tho heavy has to redeploy it every time the beam disconnects). Big Joey has a video about it.

@Grapevin

Ай бұрын

yeah it's this, the fact that it basically functions as a medic buff while still being able to use your minigun is wild

What really gets on my nerves is how many things were hard nerfed or banned under the logic of "it allows Heavy to reach mid faster" (eg GRU, Eviction Notice, Disciplinary Action). If making your game mode fun relies on an entire playable class not being able to reliably participate in the major fights, then maybe the format has some bigger problems that you should be dealing with instead.

@Yawyna124

20 күн бұрын

Heavy is able to participate in major fights, just the defensive ones. The idea of trying to restrict heavy rushing to mid is that his class role is indomitable CQC that is really slow and he becomes progressively more of a headache to deal with the fewer the number of people there are. There's nothing stopping you from attempting to play him without things that attempt to circumvent his balancing downside. But if heavy becomes obligatory from weaknesses being circumvented, then sniper becomes obligatory, and now things are going to be playing out a lot slower.

@gregoryhayes7569

20 күн бұрын

You say that like slower isn't better.

@whensomethingcriesagain

20 күн бұрын

@@Yawyna124 As I said, it sounds like that's more of a problem with 6s as a game mode than an imbalance in items

@Yawyna124

20 күн бұрын

@@whensomethingcriesagain It's 6s fault that there are a bunch of items that undermine intended balancing mechanisms?

@whensomethingcriesagain

20 күн бұрын

@@Yawyna124 It's 6s' fault if something as simple as "Heavy can participate in the initial mid fight" apparently makes it untenable. You don't see this being some huge problem in regular 12v12 or Highlander after all

The thing with this, as far as I'm aware, is that 6v6 _really_ hates anything that shakes up the set-in-stone meta and team compositions. You always have 2 scouts, 2 soldiers, a demo and a medic, at most 1 of the scouts or soldiers swapping to sniper if the enemy team has a sniper. With the power of those classes _heavily_ skewed by the fact that there's 6 less players on each team. Scout for example just ain't as strong in your average 12v12 pubs but then spiking in power when you axe the team sizes in half so he gets free reign over the map. Classes like heavy, pyro and engi get affected more by the team sizes with more interesting interactions in 12v12 as opposed to 6v6. The classes, weapons and the game in general just ain't designed around the lower player counts, with changes meet your match did screwing over casual players without changing anything to the comp players which is prolly the reason for the beef casual players have with the comp scene. Even Highlander suffers to an extent from the lower player numbers in teams and the issues forcing 1 of each class for both teams introduces (spy being godawful to play in that format because everyone knows you're there, you have no surprise factor, you always have that 1 spy on both teams as opposed to casual where you're free to swap classes at any point, there's always a fustercluck happening and nothing's guaranteed to show up, so suddenly 3 frenchmen spawning out of the aether then swapping to whatever other classes they want is much less painful to the spy players)

me when 1984 whitelist bans atomizer and not loch 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

@user-zw8bv5pr9j

Ай бұрын

whats wrong with loch?

@michaeljo9384

Ай бұрын

No one like weapon that do long range burst damage, loch 'n' load make demoman similar to sniper but you can do reactive dodge instead predict where his shot go and no instakill when being 150 HP or lower but shoot faster before the reload.

@whirl3690

Ай бұрын

@@michaeljo9384 Do you think Sniper should be banned?

@michaeljo9384

Ай бұрын

@@whirl3690 No because less class variety lead to samey gameplay and sniper is a off class (or not the META classes) in competitive, also sniper require skill (unless cheating) and can be countered by flanking, spamming, dodging which the META classes (scouts, soldiers, demo) can easily or use teammate as meatshield as medic. Sniper only need a nerf or rework to banned weapons in 6's like Jarate, Machina, etc. So sniper is balanced and shouldn't be banned unless using the banned weapon without nerfs or rework which Valve doesn't give anymore now or at huge sightline map like Hightower, 2fort and especially wutville or no / barely any viable flanking routes map like dustbowl or in casual where people doesn't communicate often to do counterplay to sniper.

@vivelespatat2670

Ай бұрын

​@@michaeljo9384Sniper is easy to play compared to every other classes in competitive. Every other classes has to worry about their position, their ammo count, their health, along with their aim; should they play slower and aim better or rely on their flicks to land shots while moving around ? Sniper only has 1 thing to worry about : Aiming. And in the vast, VAST majority of matches, you counterpick their Sniper with your own Sniper. Trying to kill the Sniper withour your own Sniper is a very easy way of eating multiple -150 before having the CHANCE to kill him. I am very surprised Sniper as a whole isn't banned.

Banning a weapon thats too powerful makes sense, if a weapon is so strong you feel forced to use it thats a problem, its also boring if everyone is using the same overpowered item. But it feels like europe banned a lot of stuff just for the sake of banning it, not being good is an extremely bad ban reason, youre just removing iptions people may like to have for no reason

3:30 i think the easiest way to sum up the difference in opinion is that in na items are allowed by default and banned if they become an issue whereas in eu items are banned by default and only allowed after they're proven to add a fair and fun dimension to 6s. the eu whitelist actually reminds me of the new player whitelists that some pug servers use to encourage new players to learn the meta and "rules" before breaking them

"Why does no one watch comp tf2?"

As a player who always respected comp but never played it, weapons that minicrit seem like a big issue mostly because mini-crits take no fall off. If minicrits took falloff weapons like reserve shooter would be far less oppressive

europe has banned the wrap assassin this current season, quoting unhappy premiership players in their news post as to why. they also have reverted the gunboats plugin they were using for a few seasons that made soldiers lose less health when rocket jumping near enemies. they also stated their interest in their latest 6v6 news post about banning the winger, solemn vow and picking up weapons. just some recent additional info i am presenting with no opinion offered.

@techwizsmith7963

Ай бұрын

I do think it's pretty funny the reason is "players were pissy" I can't say they're wrong, bleed is annoying, but it's still funny

@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413

Ай бұрын

literally none of these are problematic noone uses the wrap assassin because no more uber building the winger practically gets rid of scouts secondary damage picking up weapons hasnt been useful since they nerfed dropped mediguns solemn vow ok i guess?

@Sl1pperybastard

Ай бұрын

Thats fucking stupid lmfao

@badopinionssquid1735

29 күн бұрын

At what point do you just go play CoD

@concerningindividual629

27 күн бұрын

Solemn vow makes sense, winger makes a bit less sense but i still get it, but PICKING UP WEAPONS?

I always found it funny because most casuals genuinely think we ban like most of the weapons when in reality only a small fraction of weapons are banned, and the vast majority of those are scout/medic unlocks because they're really effing strong classes.

@zigro433

Ай бұрын

Unless you're in Europe

@johanes8867

Ай бұрын

💀 ​@@zigro433

@boinqity4621

Ай бұрын

its honestly a bit infuriating sometimes considering that the list is just like there in the open for literally anyone to look up in seconds its not like buried on some old forum page somewhere people are just confidently wrong

@moonmelons

Ай бұрын

I mean, it's not a wrong assumption though. Displinary action, GRU, buffalo steak? All banned to ensure there is a zero percent chance your pocket soldier would have to start playing heavy. The gunslinger used to be banned because it might make engineer ran more often and we can't allow that, then once it was clear that gunslinger wasn't doing shit for engies 6s viability, it was unbanned. Most weapons just don't risk shaking up the 2 scout, 2 soldier, demo medic meta. But any weapon that did risk that was banned. Which i mean, i get it. Just let's not pretend that isn't the case.

@pyrotechnic96

Ай бұрын

@@moonmelons It's about balancing the classes for the format. The way you're framing it makes it seem so much more sinister when in reality, for example, having to take down a wrangled sentry with only 6 players is just infuriating and unfun. The wrangler was intended for a server with double the amount of players and unlimited projectiles.

Yeah baby, you boy got a sonic double cheeseburger with bacon, a large strawberry limeade and fries this video is a straight banger. I love how my favorite weapons are banned in a game mode I don’t play.

literally QUIT HAVING FUN

Personally i hate 6v6 and think its inferior to highlander.

another thing about the diamondback is when you’re fighting a spy you don’t know they have crits because of their disguise so it really affects how you approach the interaction like you wouldn’t charge a spy with your uber saw if you knew he had a pocket laser beam

@bruschetta7711

21 күн бұрын

Isn't spy super weak and all? I think it's more interesting if the spy manage to get some kills instead of just giving info at best and dying

@baymexx6591

14 күн бұрын

​@@bruschetta7711if a spy is caught red handed that's (usually) the spies fault and he deserves to die as a result. Diamondback allows spy to just bypass this and, at worse, snipe players with their crits like the old amby. Amby got nerfed but diamondback hasn't even though it can effectively do the same thing which is probably why it's banned. Also dr let's you bypass spy getting punished but it's much more balanced I think. It completely takes your ability to cloak and gather intel and any experienced player will recognize when a dr is triggered and will punish it.

I remember when the BASE Jumper was first released and most players did not understand the nerf that came down on it. Then we saw clips of the 6s unhittable soldier dancing around in the sky using the unlimited redeploy.

@derp6443

Ай бұрын

no, nerfing a weapon that's only overpowered in the highest level of play is a dumb thing to do.

@concerningindividual629

Ай бұрын

@@derp6443Imo it still needed a nerf, infinite redeploys essentially means you had 3 different directions to throw off a sniper's aim, as well as the ability to stay in air, well out of the effective range of the other 8 classes. Sure, the chip damage of an entire casual team is going to kill you anyways, but in a smaller match, you basically get to dominate the enemy team with minimal damage in return

@peterisawesomeplease

Ай бұрын

@@concerningindividual629 It was a perfect case of a weapon they should have left the same in casual and just left banned in 6s. The same point this video makes about mad milk.

@isaacargesmith8217

Ай бұрын

@@derp6443 The problem wasnt that it was nerfed, its that it was nerfed in a way that didnt really fully address why it was hated in comp (the sheer power of dodging and changing your momentum to mess with people's aim, while also affectin the reasons people liked it in casual, the ability to use it for avoiding fall damgee, float around for market kills and to pair with the base jumper. The nerfs it has were meant for comp but I feel much more affected its casual uses instead. THATS the nerf's problem. People in casual never used it for movement dodging, they used it to slow down fallin so that air aim was easier and the one time open and lack of air control more so hurts the casual's ability for aiming and gardening with it. I feel if the nerf was that it slowed ALL momentum gradually instead of just fall speed abruptly and you had to keep it out to get its affect, it would not have affected casual nearly as much while still nerfing its viability in comp. Casual uses may even apprecialte the slowing effect for the airstrike aim I bet at leasts to an extent. Just one idea.

@Fatsaver

Ай бұрын

And base jumper is still banned and now we are left with a worthless ''weapon''. Thank you guys.

Thank you for this video! I know Woolen made a vid on this, like, 6 years ago so it's good to have a new video. Not a lot has changed. I think I wanna voice an opinion here. I've been following comp TF2 since i55 grand finals, and I hear & see the opinion that if a better weapon would get unbanned, then everyone would be forced to use it. That is a valid stance to take, because sometimes some tools are just broken (Vaccinator). But - isn't that the case already? People utilize the Three Rune Blade or Wrap because they are super powerful niche tools. For sure they allow for more interesting gameplay strategy overall; quicker Uber-charging and all that. ...But couldn't that be said about most of the banned unlocks as well? Like let's say the Crit-a-cola gets unbanned. Neat, now Ubered Scouts are broken as all hell - people would be "forced" to use it on last pushes... just like Gunboats in general gameplay, as they allow for faster heals for your team. I just find it a little bit obtuse, however yeah "fun" triumphs "unfun" I guess

@h20gamez

Ай бұрын

I mean this is always how comp tf2 has worked and felt for years. It's what's "fun" under someone's definition but never the collective. You wonder why the RGL cup he referred to didn't change anything because the only demographic that matters is invite; nothing else. I think the critocola would add some interesting dynamics since a scout wouldn't full time run it. It's complete ass without being ubered so you'd be down a secondary. But if a scout died for the push into last teams would have that scout come up on it. I always enjoyed the niche weapons where they were good in a situation or two. That's personally my problem with competitive at the moment.

Insane how you're pumping *actually* interesting content every day, keep it up!

I expected to hear the VSauce theme when you started to thoroughly explain why.

It's worth keeping in mind that banned weapons aren't necessarily banned because they're too strong (though they often are) but there are also banned weapons that make combat unenjoyable and lower the quality of gameplay. Disciplinary action, wrangler, rescue ranger, madmilk are examples of weapons that are combination of either too powerful and/or unfun to play against and are banned. Weapons like (imo) the cow mangler, base jumper, natasha, sydney sleeper are not very strong but are very unenjoyable to play against and not particularly interesting to play with either. I don't think pubbers realize that something like 95%+ of unlocks are permitted.

@manunova5929

Ай бұрын

Yeah, but also, casual players don't understand under what conditions the different competitive formats work and how the average skill level is higher and the player count lower (so that weapons like the Kunai and Bazaar Bargain would be considerably weaker as the enemy team is not made of fodder but of competent players who would want to prey on your weaker starting point).

@peterisawesomeplease

Ай бұрын

i don't think most pubbers realize weapon bans exist at all. And even those that do don't care at all anymore. The days of people caring about comp who don't play comp are long gone.

@krollic

Ай бұрын

@@peterisawesomeplease no. you only have to look through the comments on recent videos to see otherwise

@peterisawesomeplease

Ай бұрын

@@krollic These video get almost no views. Almost no one is seeing videos about comp. The people people commenting on these videos are not anywhere close to average pub players. Most pub players never give comp a thought. Sure back in the era of the match making updates more people cared. I remember people fighting about this stuff on r/tf2. But these days? No. No one cares(on average).

@cameron3274

Ай бұрын

Cow mangler is crazy overpowered, you can delay pushes by a significant amount by just spamming the charge shot at the door their combo is coming, if both soldiers do it you can buy so much time or do so much damage for basically no risk, crazy risk vs reward when holding a point on Uber disad. There’s also a crazy risk vs reward imbalance on certain mids, namely metalworks which make it stupid.

Another thing about the bonk is that for a flank scout, it allows you to play far more aggressively, since it is very easy to use like a dead ringer and escape their back line

53:15 Not sure if anyone already said this but the Sidney sleeper lists "no random crits" because it originally could random crit, so when they changed it they decided to list that it could no longer random crit

@Skullhawk13

12 күн бұрын

Yeah I recall that lasted awhile. iirc it was at least several days

-rep microsoft edge user

10:52 No, it's AFTER your first shot, or even your first melee swing. There was one small period of time between this iteration of the weapon and it's most broken state where crit a cola acted same as now(aka you only start getting mini crit weakness after your first shot) BUT you could use it with melee and melee won't activate the mini crit weakness, now even using melee instantly activated the mini crits weakness.

RGL 6's ban reasons Looping taunts: 3rd person abuse Pyrovision: Annoying. Massive in-game advantage by removing lots of clutter Noisemaker: Annoying. Gives away player's position Scout Elf Set: Gives away player's position Bombinomicon: Obstructive. Gives away DR Spy's position Soda Popper: Higher damage output than Stock Scattergun. Artificial splash damage immunity Bonk: Get out of jail free card. Downsides are negligible and easily diluted Cola: Free damage boost. Downsides are negligible if you camp with it Milk: Life steal. Spammable with locker PBPP: Higher damage output than Stock Pistol with life steal Guillotine: Promotes being overly campy. 5.1 second recharge that can deal up to 90 damage Cow Mangler: Stock Rocket Launcher with Infinite ammo Disciplinary Action: Gets Heavy to mid too easily Natascha: Completely neutralizes Scout, Soldier and Demo Fists of Steel: Too good at tanking. Stalling on last Rescue Ranger/Wrangler/Short Circuit: Stalling on last Quick-Fix: Uber ramp up. Pocketing Vaccinator: Overpowered. Can cap under Uber Machina: Free damage boost Sydney Sleeper: Used for spamming body shots Jarate: Free damage boost. Spammable with locker Diamondback: Snowball effect. Preys on bad teams B.A.S.E Jumper: Inherent Air Strike/Stickybomb Launcher synergy. Honestly more of a skill issue than anything That's what I at least know about for the bans. I'm sorry I keep editing this and making you re-apply hearts to this comment

@jadenknott

Ай бұрын

Isn't provision banned because it removes some stuff from the map that makes it inherently unfair?

@malignantpootis213

27 күн бұрын

@@jadenknott Yes, that too

@yournewworldleader3584

20 күн бұрын

Comp players are the definition of "optimize the fun out of the game". I mean, I know this is competitive, but this list reads like that one kid on the playground that makes up new rules on the fly.

@christopherbrice5473

20 күн бұрын

@@yournewworldleader3584That is what they are. They convinced Valve to arbitrarily nerf weapons because they were interrupted during their epic frag comp by someone having fun.

@AliceLoverdrive

19 күн бұрын

Except bans are there to make game _more_ fun, because, surprisingly, people playing the game want to enjoy playing the game.

Balancing weapons between 6s and Casual is a fool's errand cause the modes are different to the point of being different games. 6s is class-restricted coordinated 6v6 and Casual's 12v12 class-unlimited with randoms, so it's interesting that any unlocks carry between the 2 modes at all given just how different they are. Honestly many of the bans discussed in the video are reasonable for the game that 6s is. The problem is that Casual players assume that statements on weapons are in the context of their gamemode since it's the most popular TF2 has a unique problem with its competitive and casual modes being different games. Other games play similarly with their respective casual and competitive options, thus the games have consistent and approachable identities. I think the biggest factor that feeds vitriol towards competitive TF2 from casual players is that, because competitive TF2 is a different game from Casual clusterfuck TF2, calling 6s "competitive TF2" implies that it's the definitive version of the game and that it's more important than the version a majority of players experience. The game's marketing with equal focus on all 9 mercs simply never advertised that the "best" way to play the game is with 1 med, 1 demo, 2 soldiers, and 2 scouts, specifically on a handful of 5cp and koth maps. Competitive games especially thrive on simplicity. CS:GO is good guys shoot bad guys. It's simple and marketable for your average person that doesn't care about games but wants to watch something or follow the personality of a specific competitive player. TF2 traded its simplicity in favor of character and fun, which are both factors that are unattractive for the giant formless audiences that competitive games require to prosper Another reason for the massive player gap between comp and Casual is that TF2 was advertised as the "everyman's FPS", which isn't what 6s is. TF2 has classes for sniping, Quake movement shooting ( scout, soldier, demo ), building management, healing, stealth, and getting easy frags ( pyro and heavy ). Whatever mood of FPS you feel like playing, TF2 has an option. 6s is very specifically optimized to make the Quake aspects of TF2 as enjoyable --> to play

Just want to say quick-fix only builds 2 seconds faster than stock. Its unbanned in 4s and its really just not good if teams know how to actually shoot players

@Jasiuc330

Ай бұрын

2s if other medic over healed your teammate or you are gaining uber via self damaging scout, otherwise quick-fix doesn't reach to 142%< over heal of teammate hp which mean it doesn't apply uber penalty after said 142%

@h20gamez

Ай бұрын

@@Jasiuc330 Fun fact valve actually fixed that bug for the quick fix and it made it really shit so they reverted it

@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413

Ай бұрын

​@@h20gamezwhich is weird since the weapon is as anti pocket as possible and they couldve just buffed the uber build rate bonus to like 30%

Fantastic video! It's rare to see someone who is both well spoken, as well as knowledgeable about the game - I'd love to see more long form discussion/podcast videos like this.

Hot Take: TF2 was NEVER meant to be competitive. It was clearly meant to be a casual game, yet it was turned into one by the community anyways. Same for Left 4 Dead 2.

@smugfaced

12 күн бұрын

i think most of the playerbase has the same sentiment as you, me included. the majority hated mym when it dropped i don't dislike THE competitive part (leagues, prem) of tf2 though, and competition is very much an inevitable part of games in general (third party hosted comp, leaderboards, speedruns)

The Pretty Boy's healing is pretty negligible, its only really good for mitigating afterburn.

Why 6v6s became the standard match setup for competitive TF2, I'll never understand since it was painfully obvious that the developers of this game built the games core balance around the 12 unique classes all being used in tandem with each other during a match. It's like if they halved the number of pawns in competitive chess. All of these weapons and "problematic" playstyles become benign once you have more than like four people running around a point.

@manoflead643

15 күн бұрын

I wouldn't be surprised if it's just because, getting 12 dudes together to play tf2 is easier than 18/24

@Demopans5990

13 күн бұрын

Example: Demoknight becomes very strong in formats like 4s unless the other team runs more than one scout

@simplysmiley4670

9 күн бұрын

@@Demopans5990 But becomes a meme in 12v12 if there's a single competent pyro or an engineer, or heavy existing.

@Demopans5990

9 күн бұрын

@@simplysmiley4670 Hence why demoknight isn't viable in highlander

@un1d

9 күн бұрын

Play one season of highlander and you’ll change your mind. TF2 was balanced around people doing very limited teamwork and strategy, since it was never intended to be a serious game. If you somehow got a team of 12 to coordinate perfectly your match would be absolutely miserable.

People really underestimate natascha heavy, most heavies don't use it because they don't know how or they actually have compassion. Nastasha's slowing down and 20% dmg resistance is pure evil, had a game with a vacc medic and a natascha heavy... those two would refuse to die nasty combo, and I've been under the care of vaccinator, dat thing is broken, it makes the heavy a true tank, but I rewards you with questionable positioning. Now thankfully in casual most people are either goofin around or just suck, which thank god I don't want to encouter that combo in my life ever again e.e It's not impossible mind you, but it's the ulitmate bullet soak in the game and it's not punished by snail movement unlike the brass beast. But I wouldn't want 3-people focusing down two enemies while he rest are still active in killing our team.

@Grapevin

Ай бұрын

It sees a lot of play in Highlander for this reason, you get a lot of control over the game for very little downside in the grand scheme of things

@ddarianne6086

Ай бұрын

@@Grapevin Yikes! wouldn't want to play agaisnt something like that, I mean it's not so bad if you focus down the heavy, but as long as it doesn't have a vac medic should be manageable. But yeah that gun is stupid and not fun if you are a mobile class.

@ludwigiapilosa508

Ай бұрын

I have a Hale's Own Natasha and I actually know what I'm doing. Ha ha.

@ddarianne6086

Ай бұрын

@@ludwigiapilosa508 Yes and u going to hell (no your not but that's pretty evil hahahah)

@simplysmiley4670

9 күн бұрын

Most heavies will only ever use the Natasha if the enemy's scout(s) or soldier(s) are overly annoying to deal with for one reason or another, that's it, that's all natasha exists for to your average heavy player. And both of those classes are meta in 6v6. In 12v12 the tank thing barely matters, if you're not dying as that combo you're prolly gonna be curbstomping the enemy regardless, otherwise the larger team size allows the enemy to focus you down much more easily.

I think more weapons would be viable if every class would be restricted to 1 slot, allowing variety in classes used and weapons. It is so weird that competitive developed into 2 soldiers and 2 scouts and now every ban has to cater to maintaining this convention

@XdefLovesMinecraft

3 күн бұрын

Why *did* they allow doubling up on classes?

@wonderplaceholder

3 күн бұрын

@@XdefLovesMinecraft I have no idea. It seems that the decision to allow more than one class actually restricted to variety of play

@Peacock__

9 сағат бұрын

Because its what players enjoy.

@wonderplaceholder

9 сағат бұрын

@@Peacock__ Which players and when it was decided?

Underrated channel and fantastic video.

I don't play 6's but the diamond back even in the environment of getting a stab causes you to die no matter what... it will still take some time and that can be enough time for the spy to pull out the 102 crit (possibly even another shot) for whoever's in LOS for your team to get an easy clean up because I would at least think spy is more of an opener for a full on push.

@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413

Ай бұрын

scout does around the same damage at the range at which you fight diamondback spies and he doesnt need any melee kills for that

Another point to add about natascha is that it also hard denies any rocket jumps, though I don't know if it would be a common problem with heavy x bomb soldier matchups

To me Heavy is by far the best example of “banned to protect the meta.” Most of the other bans with a few exceptions are very fair. But heavy losing all ways to be viable at all at mid is tragic. It’s not like it’d be crazy OP so you have to choose which meta is more fun. It’d be a fun niche strat that diversities the meta without dominating it.

The huntsman cannot random crit. I belive the syndney sleeper could random crit on release since it coulnt get headshots, it was quickly removed for obvious reasons.

@bindstf2

Ай бұрын

I think he was just jokingly referring to how abysmal the hit detection for that weapon is. @wgetJane recently made a video pointing out that the hitboxes used for determining the closest part of the model actually don't rotate, stick outward, and lie flat, making the cardinal direction of the victim effect how headshots are detected. You can shoot someone in the exact same spot, in the exact same way, and it'll still vary based on whether you're facing north or east. According to wget, this entire issue can be solved by changing a single line of code.

You could make a follow up discussing different regions bans and/or highlander bans too!

Yes please more hour long videos about competitive stuff!

i thought the bonk was banned because of the 3rd person camera while under its effects btw you only get hit by mini crits with the crit a cola if you shoot once, if you drink it and never shoot you don't get hit by mini crits

@boinqity4621

Ай бұрын

i don't think that's considered bannable, since the only taunts banned are infinitely looping ones that you can cancel whenever you want

@abicto

Ай бұрын

also the natascha, i remember playing in a custom maps cup that had almost no weapons banned and i used the natascha to hold and, if the point is closed enough, you can make any escape almost impossible because they walk so slowly they can't even reach a safe zone before dying, and even if they do escape it will be easier for your teammates to chase them down

@OmegaRC59

Ай бұрын

​@@abictoIt's surprising how many people don't know you can wiggle on the strafe keys to make its effects almost negligible. It's a much bigger impact in the air than on the ground for sure, where you really can't just use that trick. This is also another reason why the sandman has literally nothing going for it lol

@abicto

Ай бұрын

@@OmegaRC59 i guess the fact that it's an automatic makes people forget idk, although even if you strafe you're still taking a little bit of slow and it's harder to fight while doing this

@enn1924

Ай бұрын

​@@OmegaRC59 the thing is that you can't surf the bullets to escape

Super glad for this video! (Actually surprised you took my suggestion if you were already planning for it) so I'll likely comment on some stuff you mention with regards to certain unlocks (As a Medic player mostly) Guillotine/Cow Mangler: I'm super in favor of like you say, anything that just makes Medic not as much of an annoying or even potentially miserable class to play due to randomly getting one shot by essentially; a free spamming tool (I'd dislike Loch & Load for similar reasons, as well but at least that has ammo as it's semi downside). Crit-a-Cola: Actually somehow never thought about giving a Scout who used the purple can uber (Considering if they are good with meatshots) to actually be rather deadly (especially in context of 6s where most Scouts can aim pretty good) So I might try that now in casual lol. Short Circuit/Wrangler: Even in a casual play setting, I'd find both of engi's secondaries to be (not only a bit strong) but just makes Medic's job a lot more boring and painful with trying to make a push into last, Wrangler is for sure much worse in a smaller play experience like 6s. Most sacks for a Wrangled sentry I imagine would take out 2 of the attacking team's players (maybe a third if there's a Spy sap sac). Quick-Fix: Ah yes my wheel house, Quick-Fix is for sure stronger on defensive holds (Saccing for a med is almost impossible and just allows for cheeky escapes even if you are caught out with help via your Soldier/Demoman). Along with that the play of uber add/dis which is about all you have on Medic to make it interesting just throws it out the window as you both just basically rub against each other and spam super fast build rate ubers that are just way less interesting then stock. Vaccinator: Sorta similar to Quick-Fix (Easy as hell to hold last for a long time, I know some team in EU would have a temporary medic they swap to if their main med died and they used Vac till the real one respawned forget the name thou), I'd argue however arrow tanking via healing someone while they got a bubble on em is insanely strong (Even in casual since you out heal with arrow tanking compared to beaming em while still building uber & you can just chain bubbles), It might struggle a little if you use it offensively into last against stock uber, but even then keeping your Demoman or someone else valuable alive with the push via arrow tanking is absurd. Machina/Sydney Sleeper: One shotting Medic via body shots that charges faster, just annoying in same way as Guillotine/Cow Mangler. Plus as far I know, there's not many 5CP/Koth maps where you actually hit the max range for Sniper being unable to hit you compared to something like most Payload maps. Jarate: I'd say it's like Wangler in the sense that it's strong and even broken in both casual and 6s, the main appeal is for sure just allowing easy pushes for his team in trade off for Sniper's SMG by making him a weird semi support character that really shouldn't have it, plus I'd add in that you can just keep spamming it from spawn room from last to keep a constant debuff on the enemy team or even choking off an area with followup spam from your Soldier/Demoman (Same with Mad Milk).

@MachuThePichu

Ай бұрын

I wonder how jarate and mad milk would be if they had the same charge meter as the gas passer and maybe the gas passer could get their meter I am not sure about this one, on the one hand that would make it spammable on lasts and stuff but on the otherside that wouldnt be much more effective than spamming the scorch shot, maybe even less

You spoke about heavy to mid being a less-than-desireable gamestate, but do you think it would become normal to see if disciplinary action were unbanned? I feel like heavy's strengths would be under-utilized for a majority of the team fight at the cost of soaking up way too much damage. Do you think it could incentivize the other team to run sniper to mid, causing a rock paper scissors effect?

@Wild_Rumpus

Ай бұрын

that's the main thing that people don't want but I'm not even sure heavy to mid would be good to begin with

Taunts prove that TF2 is P2W

@datsimplenope

10 күн бұрын

Nah bro it’s Pay 2 Pimp

Yeah some of these weapon banned I understand. Stuff like mad milk and jarate are already pretty strong in casual given in last point defense, you can spam the one of the liquids and make holding the point easier. Banning the Nash alone for annoying factor is understandable Find it funny that the gru and eviction notice were nerf were nerf specifically because heavy can go quicker to go to mid. However it turns heavy going to mid is not that powerful. So that nerf was for nothing(if only vavle did weapon balance updates but at last)

@ihavenoidea598

Ай бұрын

TF2 team trying to turn casual into competitive was the most "Devs dont play their own game" move they made

This is why I prefer Highlander.

@switZ7Q

Ай бұрын

Based HLchad

I don't really play or even follow 6v6 but this is a pretty great watch. Not finished yet, and in the Engi section you're saying something that I can't really figure out, i think it's something like "disad last", but I'm unsure. Later on you say "even's last" which I'm guessing is a different variant of this type(?) of last push. Can you explain what you're saying here and what they mean to the less informed such as myself :D?

@Wild_Rumpus

9 күн бұрын

ad/disad/evens is usually shorthand for uber advantage/uber disadvantage/even ubers, referring to the relative uber % for each team

I don't understand many of the reasons behind these bans Like flying guillitone, ask anyone and they'll say it's infinately more interesting and rewarding to hit someone with it than shooting the pistol, it's not even easier unless you expect someone to come out of the corner, then you say it would make things more "spammy" despite other classes being a lot more spammy by default and the fact guillitone has to recharge whereas pistol is just spammable even if not effective at range

@Yawyna124

20 күн бұрын

" it's not even easier unless you expect someone to come out of the corner," There's your answer. It's long range harassment that does not need LoS from your side of things nor even necessarily risk to deal damage. Pistol is hitscan, so you need LoS to deal damage. You very much expect people to come around the corner on the opposite side of rollouts or during respawn waves, so you can, indeed, expect someone to come around the corner. "despite other classes being a lot more spammy by default" Rockets travel at 1,100 hammer units, grenades at 1,200-1500, and uncharged stickies at 900. The guillotine travels at 3,000 and is nowhere near as loud and colorful as rockets, grenades, and stickies, and is therefore far harder to dodge. Unlike rockets, it does not have fall-off, and unlike grenades, which also do not have fall-off, it travels a lot quicker with far less aggressive arc. Charged stickies come closer to their velocity, but also need charged to fire and then need to be detonated. It is also incentivized to use at long range since it gets 1.5 seconds removed off cooldown at long range. "pistol is just spammable even if not effective at range" There's your answer between those two: guillotine is spammable, effective at close and long range, and, in fact, gets more effective from exceptional range. Overall, it's 90 damage that is hard to dodge, relatively easy to hit at long ranges, and is incentivized for longer ranges.

@bruschetta7711

20 күн бұрын

@@Yawyna124 so it's just a matter of not giving the op close quarter class a realtively consistant long range weapon

I think the Fists of Steel are banned because of a bug that abuses the lesser overheal on wearer to let uber build at full speed as long as the beam doesn't disconnect, you don't even have to keep the fists out, Heavy can play as normal and medic gets max uber build.

Scout 5:38 Soda Popper 7:30 Bonk! Atomic Punch 10:38 Crit-a-Cola 12:18 Flying Guillotine 14:13 Mad Milk 16:26 Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol Soldier 17:58 Cow Magler 5000 22:51 Disciplinary Action Multi-Class 26:00 B.A.S.E. Jumper 29:38 Reserve Shooter Heavy 31:58 Natasha 33:02 Fists Of Steel Engineer 34:26 Rescue Ranger 38:32 Short Circuit 41:33 Wrangler Medic 44:18 Quick-Fix 47:25 Vaccinator Sniper 50:42 Machina 51:30 Sydney Sleeper 53:10 Jarate Spy 54:26 Diamondback

@Wild_Rumpus

Ай бұрын

adding these, thanks!

rumpus popping off crazy mode recently

Quick question, if the pomson 6000 got buffed to where you could consistently hit the projectile while keeping all of it's current abilities do you think it would get banned? And if it didn't get banned do you think it would make engineer a viable class for 6s full time? I also love your videos btw, honestly I kinda want to play comp now thanks to your videos. (had to fix some of my wording)

@Wild_Rumpus

Ай бұрын

id say probably no for both but who knows depending on the changes

@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413

Ай бұрын

​@@Wild_Rumpusuber drain still exists therefore its banned

@yugiO608

Ай бұрын

@@Wild_Rumpus oki thanks!

@TJ-hg6op

27 күн бұрын

I mean, I guess, but it would be difficult to hit medics anyways since they probably aren’t running straight at you with an Uber saw like casual, instead being behind power classes.

It's crazy to me to think that my favorite weapon in TF2 of all time, the Reserve Shooter, ends up being too oppressive in 6s it has to be banned, when (as a casual player) I've always felt the spread could do with being tightened slightly to actually land those mid-range pop-up shots better. I find great joy in denying bombing soldiers if I'm lucky to be good enough with it, but I'm not a bomber myself, so I suppose I can see why swapping for the mantreads isn't a feasible or enjoyable enough solution, or that doing so can break down into rock-paper-scissors between soldiers.

@golden_2196

26 күн бұрын

Shotguns actually have better accuracy in comp due to random spread being disabled

Why not ban stock weapons?

@switZ7Q

Ай бұрын

Because they aren't busted or unfun to fight against

@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413

Ай бұрын

​@@switZ7Qstickybomb launcher

@michaeljo9384

Ай бұрын

Stickybomb launcher is annoying for some players but then Scorch shot, Machina, Natasha exist (and other annoying weapons). Also stickybomb launcher is countered by not being in medium range, shooting the sticky before walking though even at chokepoint and practice dodging unlike Machina's annoying 173 bodyshot from very close / far away, scorch Shot & Natasha's removal of your dodging skill after being hit briefly.

@MoundN

4 күн бұрын

​@@michaeljo9384 sticky bomb launcher

"The base jumper is so broken" is something I never would have expected to hear, and yet after a year and a half of comp I completely understand why and that brings me SO MUCH PAIN

@isaacargesmith8217

Ай бұрын

@@ammi5311 itss op becuse it makes you literally near impossible to shoot out of the air if you're actually good at the game and not using it for its intended purpose of funny air strike kills, stoppin fall damage, and crutched market gardens. Its literally awful to play agaainst for similar reasons OW pre-rework pharah was agony to play against. Even very talented direct hit users often cant hardly hit a good base jumper. Its fundimentally unfair. It has nothin to do with "It denials your circle jurking montage", its that it feels horrible to play against and generally isnt something people like using neither.

@lt2660

Ай бұрын

​@@ammi5311i think the comp scene is right on this one, its not healthy for the game to force players to pick an entirely different class they might not even be good at because 1 guy on the enemy team wanted to use 1 of several other more balanced and interesting secondaries. The whole point of having multiple classes is to let players with different skills contribute to games. Why should someone who's not good at hitscan be forced to permanently swap off because 1 guy made their whole class unviable?

@slyseal2091

Ай бұрын

@@lt2660 Well you see in, the very experimental Valve format of "12s" you just get out of the way while your two heavies play anti-air. Then you use the remaining 99% of your current life to play the game as you would normally. I wonder if in the world where engi is 6s meta, spy has his toolkit crippled because he can just turn off engi. Makes him "unviable" after all.

@lt2660

Ай бұрын

@@slyseal2091 I only play 12v12 casual and spy sucks there too lol

@slyseal2091

Ай бұрын

@@lt2660 And why is that? Please, don't reduce it to shotgun > revolver, elaborate

While i think a fair bit of the bans are pretty reasonable, it kind of undercuts the whole "bans arent just to enforce a meta" when two subsequent bans are explained by "Soldier (and demo) is really bad at fighting this" (base jumper and reserve shooter)

@Wild_Rumpus

3 күн бұрын

i think you highlight the point that people use the term "the meta" to mean completely different things at times, but in this case its "meta" classes that are the best abusers of the unlocks, not just the victims, so we wouldn't see a change in class distribution from these weapons but just a degeneration of gameplay

@XdefLovesMinecraft

3 күн бұрын

@@Wild_Rumpus fair point that soldier is also the user of both the examples, but the counters to themselves aren't soldier. And also both examples are factors of a meta of action (bombing) as much as they are a meta of class distribution.

33:07 there is a bug you can do with the fos that lets you gain full uber at all times on a overhealed heavy

It's interesting that spammy weapons are banned except Scorch Shot (sometimes) considering it's the most infamous and hated spammy weapon in casual. And literal direct upgrade weapon such as 3rd degree isn't banned but Cow Mangler in 6s due to spam issues. Also Disciplinary Action (and several heavy's movement boosts weapon) is banned due to making heavy viable in or right outside middle point make the game stally or impossible to push. So instead playing less stally gamemode like KOTH or asymmetrical gamemodes where literally make stalemate win condition for RED team and breaking it is how to get to the win condition for BLU team (with stopwatch mode for each team have same chance to win) and where off-classes is more viable than only defending last point, breaking stalemates or other small niches. Kinda weird how highlander's map pools are that but 6's is fully 5CP only (except Valve's 6's where that 1 unbearable CTF map exist).

Huntsman doesn't get random crits. It doesn't have the stat, but is still doesn't randomly crit

What do you do with all the hours you save saying ad instead of advantage

great video

Okey this can only be binge watched. Be back in MILLION YEEARRS

None of this is a game-breaking problem in 12v12 btw. Almost like the game was balanced around that

how long is the q time for comp tf2?

@Wild_Rumpus

Ай бұрын

no one plays the in-game competitive queue, comp tf2 is played via 3rd party leagues and community pug groups, all run on community-run servers

The cow mangler is my favorite banned weapon by far most fun i have had in comp in a minute

@biooptical8581

8 күн бұрын

Also the quick fix was fun it made the med guns like a game or rock paper scissor where you guess what med gun they have and pick around it

Balancing what is allowed in Competitive so that it won't become boring is so weird. With how TF2 weapons are, it feels to me like the perfect middle ground is so small that you can easily miss it. I haven't seen much of Competitive tf2 myself anyway, so idk. I like TF2 for being wacky and that's why the only competitive I have ever seen was from Salty Phish's series, which is absolutely hilarious

May I ask about other game modes like koth, payload race, payload? With different game modes comes with different dynamics and play styles like pyro can be more viable in koth rather than 5cp as an example and what about changing the winning requirements to help make some weapons or classes more viable. ( know it’s a big stretch but it’s a food for thought more than anything)

Ah, I see. I must find airblast more interesting because I am so bad at it that is is not a reliable negation of much of anything, thus making it a thrilling risk.

Gru and whip weren't banned because heavy to mid was good, they were banned because heavy to mid forces both teams to do it, and that results in both teams just looking at each other across the point waiting for picks because you can't push into a heavy. It made the game extremely boring to play and even less fun to watch. The vast majority of the og bans from a decade or so ago, the mixup days I guess you could call it, were because they made the game a boring stalemate and slowed it to a crawl. I do agree that allowing the gru but not the whip doesn't make sense because they both facilitate the same thing and were originally banned for the same exact reason.

"They don't like Sniper being stronger for no downside" - Proceeds to have the Bazaar Bargain unbanned.

great video man. Wait a sec. ..OMG ITS YOUU!!! You're the guy from the tf2 coaching discord server HAHAHA hello!!!!!

Woolen sleevelet did a video a while back in this. How much has changed since then?

@Grapevin

Ай бұрын

A lot of weapons have been unbanned since then. Pretty much every weapon that he mentions as a former ban (buffalo steak, gru, solemn vow etc) were still banned at the time. so consider this video a deeper dive into the still-existing bans basically

I think in europe the reserve shooter and the detonator are banned for pyro [why? are they that op? ig the reserve shooter kinda makes sense] like, pyro isn't played there, so if the reserve shooter was used maybe he'd be more viable. Most of the damage boost will go towards removing dmg falloff, and usually it's not a big dmg increase either way. And the detonator is just a must have.

@Yawyna124

20 күн бұрын

The reserve shooter was a lot more problematic when you could just airblast people and use it. It's still very strong though because enemies launching themselves towards you while blast jumping naturally eat more pellets since they're closing in. "Most of the damage boost will go towards removing dmg falloff" It's significantly more damage than you think because min-crits are already not affected by damage fall-off, so the only damage decay is hitting a target with less pellets (and shotguns have fixed spread in comp, so they are significantly more consistent)

The issue people have with the Diamondback is that it is pretty much a strict upgrade over any other revolver, and is just a better Ambassador in most circumstances since you don't have to deal with damage fall off or have to headshot people. So with it legal, there would be almost no reason to choose any other revolver since the damage penalty can be negligible without crits, and is non-existent with them. On another note, I am really sad Engi's unlocks are so horribly designed because the rest of his kit is pretty well put together, but then Valve dropped the ball with the secondaries and made them infuriating. I just want something cool to have as a secondary in the main slot, not "Press 2 to win" or "Screw you in particular" the weapon

So what about direct hit used against base jumper, wouldn't that be good enough way to counter it

I do notice the increased fire rate for the pocket pistol as a scout main because it almost feels more like burst damage. Long range stock is superior in my opinion because you're gonna whiff with the faster hit+lower clip. Close range the pocker pistol annihilates

You gave the arguments for a couple of weapons that they are banned because if they weren't, no one would use anything else or would make an already powerful class more powerful. But a lot of classes ( Medic in particular) have options that dominate their peers so much that you are pretty much throwing if any other item was picked.

in the world of fighting games, something is considered ban worthy if its deemed overcentralising (good to the point where it has a stranglehold over the metagame) or degenerate (makes the game overall less fun and/or trivializes skill). Overall I think Rgl's ban list is very well done but etf2l's bugs me a bit since I really dont think being annoying is equivalent to being degenerate sodapopper(overcrentalising) bonk(a bit of both) crit o cola(overcentralising) flying guillotine(overcentralising) mad milk (overcentralising) pbpp(overcentralising kinda) i could see it being allowed if people wanted it. its allowed in ugc cow mangler(degenerate) its a weird case where it isnt that much better but all of its advantages lead to lameness. fun fact i played in the experimental cup and one shot a scout with the charge shot while they were building. Thats why you always stay above 160 while building kids. base jumper(Both) reserve shooter(both) Ironically it would make soldier worse disciplinary action(overcentralising?) after the steak and gru unban ive never actually seen heavy to mid so it might be ok for an unban i dunno natasha(degenerate) textbook example of an option that causes you to win my limiting your oponents options for counterplay. fists of steal(overcentralising) a fully overhealed fos heavy has 630 effective health which is as the wrangler has shown us, a lot for a team to get through. Last points give holding teams great positional advantage but they will often have to throw it away in order to physically shot the cap in scramble situations. the fos allows teams to take better advantage of positioning since they have this giant wall on the point that cant be killed without diverting the potential damage of most of the enemy team. rescue ranger(overcentralising) short circuit(DEGERNERATE) wrangler(overcentralising) quickfix(both) vaccinator(both) machina(overcentralising) sydney's sleeper(degenerate) sniper doesn't need an easy mode jarate(overcentralising) diamondback(might actually be ok) In the same experimental cup i played the diamondback was allowed and weirdly nobody used it. spy is usally just used to get one pick so most people would prefer the letranger. The diamondback would make it a bit harder for spy to get in but he would be able to do a bit more once he is in. Unlike in casual the crits arent exactly free since you cant get any before an encounter and you do have the legitimate downside of having to give up the letranger

can you make a video about why is scout broken

Unban both the reserve shooter AND the parachute. Problem solved.

"6s is notorious and often times chastised by casual players for the weapon bans and whitelist used." Good.

You're one of the rare people I hear spell "L'étranger" correctly

The Sydney Sleeper on release in 2010 could actually random crit. Which is hilarious.

@Eshyyyyy

Ай бұрын

I think if the Reserve Shooter only had mini crits on targets you launched it’d be fine. I don’t know why it isn’t like that to begin with. I thought that was the entire point of it.

Do you think the Fists of Steel are banned because of a bug that allows for more ubercharge? I think I remember that being a thing recently, and idk if it was patched, if not that might be why they are banned

@krollic

Ай бұрын

More likely just because they are very strong. If you are defending last as heavy with uber disadvantage, it's even easier to run into the spawn with fists to survive if the enemy uber goes on you, thus even more likely to waste their charge.

@just_call_me_joe

Ай бұрын

That's not a bug but an intended mechanic. Medic builds faster when healing someone who isn't fully buffed. Fist of Steel makes it so the heavy can never be fully buffed. It's the same concept as building with basher as scout.

@Grapevin

Ай бұрын

yes it is because of this

Having not played a single game of sixes in my life but watched a few of them, I've come to the conclusion that highlander just hates mini crits

dude, with the amount of unbanned weapons im suprised no one ran df pyro fulltime(i meant as in replacing a scout or a soldier). or maybe not enough people played df pyro for it to succed

@twpsyn

Ай бұрын

DF has worse airblast and airblast is pyro's primary role in 6s

@muselibarnless

Ай бұрын

i wanted to say something about the fact that, yeah but its damage would probably counterract its slow airblast in anywhere else except defending but, overheal fucks up everything@@twpsyn

So yall think the base jumper is op, if only medic had weapon that does more damage the farther away the enemy is, if only there was a class that could easily kill a stationary or slowly moving target in the air with a head shot, if only soldier had a rocket launcher that has faster projectiles and mini crits on airborne targets, if only competitive players could hit their shots, if only there was a class that can reflect projectiles. It’s such a shame none of these things exist … oh wait they do if only you used them it’s not like sniper has a (practically) infinite range hitscan sniper rifle with the highest burst damage in the game or a bow that can one shot all classes except for a overhealed heavy thats very easy to use and also has high sustained dps.

i thought they unbanned everything? was that overturned?

I sure was worth hour of my day

How can I get into a 6v6 and or Highlander team ? I can’t find any resources anywhere to find people

@Wild_Rumpus

Ай бұрын

the best beginner resources right now in north america are newbie mixes and the tf2 coaching central discord

@christopherdavis7069

Ай бұрын

@@Wild_Rumpus thank you !

I bet plenty of casual players wouldn't mind Natascha being banned there too

Consider using noise removal or another effect, there's quite a lot of background noise. Love the videos though man.

1:00:48 The metagame shifts? Does it now? What, in the geological scale?

in short: we dislike spam. my solution: fucking ban soldier and demo entirely (and lucksman btw)! demoknight is fine though.