We will be making the data used in this video public soon! Edit: here it is github.com/megascatterbomb/tf2PlayerCount Edit #2: A criticism I'm seeing is "it isn't profitable to harvest cases/items, therefore there can't be tens of thousand of idle bots." You're right. On paper, it isn't profitable, but for some reason they still do it. I don't know why, nor do I have the full picture. There's some element/elements to this I couldn't find. It could be part of something grander, or bot hosters could being doing this simply because they can, who knows. I don't know the reason, all I know is that it's happening.

@basileusbasil4041

20 күн бұрын

nice

@redbee8232

20 күн бұрын

nice 2

@delllaptop2624

20 күн бұрын

nice 3

@HellnawNaw-zq2jx

20 күн бұрын

nice 4

@starpowergirl

20 күн бұрын

thanks zesty, ur the besty.

Sorry guys I accidentally left my 50 thousand computers idling on the main menu of TF2

@readyplayerthree3

20 күн бұрын

Oh crap, hope he sees this so he can send a follow up vid! We fixed it!

@Rusty1951

20 күн бұрын

Typical sniper main!!! *shrugs, demonic thrall of laughter echoes through these hallowed halls*

@freakshowjimmyscrackheaddu8255

20 күн бұрын

i see you in comment sections a lot

@SnipingIsAGoodJobMate

20 күн бұрын

@@freakshowjimmyscrackheaddu8255 [Automated Reply #345]

@Nerty1458

20 күн бұрын

its ok, we forgive you

I have "voice communication is not avaliable for this account" and i must scream

@ZestyJesus

20 күн бұрын

can't even call for a medic, utter bs

@GreenTeaTheTea

20 күн бұрын

​@@ZestyJesusyo zest can i show you pictures of my truck

@NootTheSausage5016

20 күн бұрын

Same on mine, and I can’t play the game because the new update broke my game :p

@juriszzzgaming8837

20 күн бұрын

​@@ZestyJesus I am now sad after the watching this video. Anyway, voting with our wallets wont really work, bc comparing the amount of money valve earns from tf2 to steam is like comparing the amount of real players in tf2 to bots in tf2 - not enough for valve to care.

@-RandomStranger-

20 күн бұрын

​@@ZestyJesus nor a spy

Never ask... ... a man, his salary. ... a woman, her age. ... a TF2 player, to select all squares with bicycles.

@lolzdatguy4987

6 күн бұрын

Tf2 player here, can confirm captchas are rigged

@whitegirlsoncrack

2 күн бұрын

Good job, well researched, written and edited. Made a video on this myself a while back, I don’t know why people don’t care more about this. Also, every article online about TF2 talks about its player count and record highs, goes to show how little research is done most the time.

@patadanaboca758

13 күн бұрын

Ever since I watched your video a couple of years ago I believed tf2 was about 50% bots because of the average play time data shown in said video. Now I have a better scope of the bot problem.

@ConjureNoonSloth

12 күн бұрын

I was a little surprised when Zesty said no one else is making videos on this topic! I saw your video a while back and thought it was great. Like you and Zesty both lay out here, it makes the in game expeience so much worse.

@phoenixflambe3319

9 күн бұрын

True or not, I just see that as being pessimistic.

@baronvonwhinsectown2454

9 күн бұрын

​@@phoenixflambe3319because enforcing toxic positivity is such a better alternative right

@phoenixflambe3319

9 күн бұрын

@@baronvonwhinsectown2454 Is toxic negativity the better option then? Toxicity is just a buzzword that lost meaning an impact nowadays.

2012: Mann vs Machine 2024: Machine

@Nick_santana1

20 күн бұрын

we lost, the machines took over

@roniecervantes9122

20 күн бұрын

Democracy may have to wait on this one. Automatons. We. Will. Be. Back.

@GuanGuanGhoo

20 күн бұрын

Sooo... Long Night has started.

@flaris0706

20 күн бұрын

​@@roniecervantes9122 FOR DEMOCRACY

@kerplunk_862

20 күн бұрын

You all don't know that we all got finally a mvm update

People called me crazy when i pointed this out a few years ago

@thanhhaitran9422

20 күн бұрын

You dare criticize our le hecking wholesome game ? Le downvote for you.

@KyryloMudrokha

19 күн бұрын

okay where? Considering the nature of your content I doubt that. Edit: I would like to apologise, he did indeed make a video with the exact same calculation and same result, I am sorry.

@johnnycripplestar5167

19 күн бұрын

Whaaaat? You did? AWW, YOU MUST BE CRAZY, MAN!

@seriamon

19 күн бұрын

crazy? i was crazy once they put me in a room a rubber room with rats i hate rats they make me crazy crazy? i was crazy once...

@SDRlegacy

19 күн бұрын

Yeah I remember being one of the many who called you crazy at the time but damn you were correct all along, apologies.

The idea that roughly 2/3s of my gift-a-pult gifts have gone to bots is the saddest thing I learned by watching this video. That’s just not fair.

@6riffln64

7 күн бұрын

I gift-a-pulted an unusual holy grail Homerunner's hobby (scout beanbag taunt) and it went directly to an OMEGATRONIC bot :(

got banned from r/tf2 for pointing it out a year ago lol

@Drunken_Hamster

8 күн бұрын

Time to make an alt and post this video as evidence.

@a-c1081

8 күн бұрын

@@Drunken_Hamster i would rather be banned from that subreddit than not

@bume2212

7 күн бұрын

​@@a-c1081It's a honor to be banned from that subreddit

@malif1279

4 күн бұрын

Getting banned from r/TF2 is a blessing That place is a shithole filled with neckbeards who clap whenever the word "pootis" is mentioned

@kormannn1

4 күн бұрын

It's a safe space for transoids

i cant believe tf2 predicted tf2 being overrun with bots thats crazy man

@Jayy5

13 күн бұрын

Life imitates art

@johndoe-xc2yg

13 күн бұрын

😂😢

@melonmatv9112

11 күн бұрын

Mann vs Machine

Name one other game community where ranking virtual skins is toxic and problematic behaviour lmao

@DelusionalDetective

20 күн бұрын

- tf2 -

@okaychud

20 күн бұрын

Some "friend" he is

@dankedothm

20 күн бұрын

ehrm that’s not shorkin wholesome thewhat, sorry chud!

@VaultInteractive

20 күн бұрын

Lol, lmao even

@redengineerfromtf2thatisan136

20 күн бұрын

"HoW dAre yOu CriTiciZE muH VirTuaL skINarInos, yoU aRe lE toXIc ChuD"

All those jokes about TF2 being on life support is true after all. TF2 activity graph indeed looks like constant cardiac arrest...

@irgendwer3610

2 күн бұрын

I alsways found it funny how people kept saying TF2 outlived Overwatch when TF2 is as much of a mess as OW

A microcosm of the dead internet theory, shit’s chilling

@celestialowl8865

13 күн бұрын

It actually sorta operates in the face of dead internet theory. The majority of players you play with, despite the high bot count and low player count still will be human. That's even stranger

@nechdaught3412

10 күн бұрын

@@celestialowl8865 that’s because the bots don’t join the servers and play the game; only humans do (with the exception of cheater bots, but most bots aren’t cheater bots, just idlers)

@celestialowl8865

10 күн бұрын

@@nechdaught3412 Yes I also watched

@treader3126

5 күн бұрын

Dead Internet isn't that sad, well until AI tries to fill the void. Most of the Internet is dark and you have no need to interact with, the only parts we care about is where we have interactions with other people.

in just 9 hours, twice as many people have watched this video as there are people concurrently playing tf2.

@dootdoot8755

20 күн бұрын

Yeah it just shows that there are so many people who genuinely want to play this game but valve just doesn't care

@shuckarooo

20 күн бұрын

i dont even play tf2 but this is interesting

@fartman9223

20 күн бұрын

​@@dootdoot8755 thats implying that youtube isnt botted aswell

@sethbingo

20 күн бұрын

dead internet theory

@starmaker75

19 күн бұрын

Who like watching TF2 stuff? *Hand ups* Who wants to actually play TF2? *Hand down*

No wonder Pyrocynical comes back to TF2 on streams, the player numbers there are VERY inflated...

@seronymus

17 күн бұрын

One joke

@TheNormalplayer12

16 күн бұрын

@@seronymus I don't know why

@GayDemonWarlord

16 күн бұрын

​@@TheNormalplayer12 It doesn't even matter how hard you try

@Salithin

16 күн бұрын

@@GayDemonWarlordKeep that in mind

@april-milk

16 күн бұрын

​@@TheNormalplayer12It doesn't even matter how hard I try

"no one talks about the bots!" there is no war in ba sing se

@roninsellix6627

11 күн бұрын

bros boutta take zesty to lake laogai

@bubaruba9609

2 күн бұрын

Yeah yall talk about it but do nothing. Savetf2 was the best yall had.

I’m sure this comment will sink to the bottom, but the truth is Valve *doesnt* have a reason or incentive to fix anything, namely because people keep buying. People buy the keys, people buy the cases, people buy the content. People shouting on Twitter or Reddit or KZread isn’t going to fix anything, money will, and people will never stop buying. People have sunk thousands into tf2 over its lifespan, and won’t stop because they’ve already sunk so much in. Reddit and Twitter and online spaces don’t want to admit the issues with the game because they’ve sunk so much in to, and don’t want to admit the truth, that TF2 is in a bad place and on the verge of collapse. TF2 is dying, maybe human player counts are stable, but but players already more than double human players.

@Gojira-ii4ru

14 күн бұрын

It's kind of a no-way to run, the game is old and Valve already got 2 Milk-Cows to dry off. If people stop playing the game the game will just let it be.

@darthgamer9861

7 күн бұрын

and the thing is, yes 30K is a lot, but eventually, they will move on. And since Tf2 isnt really bringing in new players, that player count will steadily decrease

@malif1279

4 күн бұрын

​​@@Gojira-ii4ruExactly "Tens of millions annually" is a lot of money sure, but compared to the revenue that the giants of Dota 2 & CS2 and compared to the revenue that the absolute behemoth that is Steam pulls in every year? It's like a glass of water compared to a lake compared to an entire ocean

@irgendwer3610

2 күн бұрын

more like Valve literally can't get itself together to do anything about it, Valve is so decentralized power goes to a few workers in the company

@soupcan

5 сағат бұрын

valve makes pennies with tf2 in comparison to everything else they run, people forget valve isnt just tf2 dota and csgo

So. The true of the matter is... Whenever we celebrate TF2's immortality, we have a king's parade with TF2 at the throne. But the king is dead, and the bots puppet the rotten corpse.

@manunova5929

19 күн бұрын

Not quite. Just because about 30% of the playerbase is actually human doesn't mean that the game is dead, just that the Steam player numbers are bloated and the playerbase stagnant. TF2 dies with us. It does create issues depending on your region, though.

@FalconHgv

19 күн бұрын

​@@manunova5929yeah, that's the unfortunate part of a dying game. Funny enough, Apex legends is kinda dead over here on SA too with our servers being the lowest populated for the most part.

@tobiso2289

18 күн бұрын

that but less cheesy

@Lyss-Jack

18 күн бұрын

The Corpse of King Teufort

@lennybjorowitz4256

18 күн бұрын

@@Lyss-Jack This man, he gets it.

"This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue Sandvich- the story ends, you queue up for another match and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red Sandvich-you stay in cp_hydro and I show you how much of Valve has neglected this game."

@Kraumyke

19 күн бұрын

That's a cool reference

@youtubeuniversity3638

18 күн бұрын

I legitimately wish Tc_hydro was iterated on with more territory controls.

@youtubeuniversity3638

18 күн бұрын

*eats the yellow sandvitch because it recharges faster*

@bacon-sandwich4726

18 күн бұрын

No one likes BLU cheese, start munching on some grade A, reality seasoned RED meats.

@microman502

18 күн бұрын

actually makes me sad

Guess machine won, Mann lost

POP QUIZ: An entity that was beloved by millions, led a golden age, went through a civil war, crippled by an event, forced on life support, constantly suffering from incursions from an outside force and has a deranged cult following that will attack anyone that so much as disagrees or points out a flaw in the system. Now, did I just describe the Emperor of Mankind or Team Fortress 2?

@Myal22

12 күн бұрын

both series contain some level of buff sexy men oiling up

@user-ju3rl7df6y

12 күн бұрын

When i read this i thought of the roman empire

@GreyKnightsVenerable

5 күн бұрын

Clearly TF2.

@unknownlogicman9399

4 күн бұрын

To be the fair the Emperor of Mankind might have foreseen what was to come…Maybe? Still not sure how this fits into his supposed grand plan for humanity though.

@w5527

Күн бұрын

Sounds like the HRE lol

There's something kinda creepy about it idk. It's like being in a mall food court and you look around and only see 4 people scattered about, eating alone, but you hear this loud chatter, people laughing and having a good time as though the place were full with hundreds of people. Like idk, I always played TF2 assuming there were tens of thousands of other people along with me, but it's just an illusion.

@HeDronHeDronHedron

20 күн бұрын

also among all of the chatter there’s several people with the same voice that are trying to address everyone in the room except for each other

@manhoovy193

20 күн бұрын

Same.

@Darkelite84

20 күн бұрын

Feels like being in one of those gmod maps like gm_bigcity, where there's this noisy ambience, but really you are the only one in that map.

@jack6478

20 күн бұрын

there's still tens of thousands of players, just divide the number you expect by 3

@LeMicronaut

20 күн бұрын

Bro, wake up. New creepypasta just got cooked up.

56:37 "It's Valve's responsibility to maintain this game, so long as it's being offered as playable with incentivized microtransactions. Yet they consistently fail to meet their responsibility." Well said. If Valve took care of TF2, content bloat, botting, lack of updates... None of these would exist. At least a much smaller magnitude. Maybe this video is a tough pill to swallow for some, but what must be said must be done. Good job, man. + But still nice to see the around 20,000 consistent real player count. Showing that this game really has some die-hard fans which Valve doesn't deserve.

@ChillyUltraKill

19 күн бұрын

Its one thing for a student to do their homework. Its another for them to actually do good.

@Meladoom2

19 күн бұрын

content bloat and lack of updates in one sentence feels weird, but yeah

@DEWILL

19 күн бұрын

@@Meladoom2 let's face it, they aren't proper updates

@maksymilianzajac5262

19 күн бұрын

they cant even get csgo straight, every match has 2 cheaters

@thanhhaitran9422

19 күн бұрын

They don't even bother doing quality check. Every update now has a buggy map, clip art or pride flag warpaint, reuse cosmetics.

Yeah.

@Catfishguy

10 күн бұрын

Wsg Samwiz

@nezaniatoimya

9 күн бұрын

BUT BIG STEAM NUMBER COMMUNITY GOOD OVERWATCH BAD GAME NOT DEEAAAAAD!!!!! WAAAAAAAH IM A COPING INFANT WHO WON'T FACE THE FACTS WAAAAH

Active 'developer' support, as in a single developer assigned to it.

“Speak with your mouths and with your wallets” *screams in voice communication is not available for this account*

@oppositevoice

20 күн бұрын

laughs in voice communication is not available for this account

@conic2721

19 күн бұрын

buy the orange box whenever it goes on sale you're not giving money towards TF2 exactly, moreso towards HL and Portal

@panthekirb7561

19 күн бұрын

Kids can't pay a dollar for their "favourite game" lol

@massgunner4152

18 күн бұрын

​@@panthekirb7561ah yes, because everyone has to pay money to use a basic function every other fucking shooter has, quite a remarkable feat for the dev team to monetise something that hurts real players more than the bloody bots, get your face away from that boot.

@panthekirb7561

17 күн бұрын

@@massgunner4152 The only boot here is my boot kicking the annoying children who do almost as much harm as bots. Noone wants to play with children and the majority of F2Ps have always been children.

“Casual is a casualty and complaining is a crime” -hintshot, like 4 days ago

@Mister_Domm

20 күн бұрын

Everything and anything all of the time!

@baconlettucepotato3726

19 күн бұрын

"How would you rate your last game? Like we give a shit!"

@CSP_chicken

19 күн бұрын

“Your killstreak would look better if it had a random crit.”

@partpaalaroos3774

19 күн бұрын

@@baconlettucepotato3726 I was literally about to say that

Man tf2 is one of those games that you never stop playing but instead take long brakes

Valve could just make remove the case weekly drops. Instead make them part of the random item drop pool. This would absolutely kill the botnets since their reason to bot is mostly gone. Wouldn't fix the issue completely, but it would still help a lot.

The cope of “Tf2 players just play at weird times and stop playing at bizarre times!” Is truly wild. Like hypothetically imagine thousands of human being in sync who have the weirdest hours at their jobs all coming home and playing at the same time then going back to work.

@leonardo9259

20 күн бұрын

They do share a single brain cell for their jokes so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. The hivemind is real

@Chromeberd

20 күн бұрын

I work graveyard and it's hell to not have people active at 5am when I wanna chill. Nothing but bots and Chinese servers with horrible ping.

@Maxler5795

20 күн бұрын

Its just coping. And i dont mean it in an evil way, i mean it in a "im sorry, but youre making things up to not deal with the issue. Same as i"

@moustacheboy9918

20 күн бұрын

That thinking is quite similar to that of staunch flat-earthers. They believe they are special and will dismiss any source that undermines their point of view.

@umrayquazashinyapareceu1672

20 күн бұрын

For me, the game will probably close sometime between now and 2025. If the gaps gets too big, tf2 playerd and even other fps players will see how dead this game is. When that happens, valve will simply shut down tf2 for good and erase everything they made from it. There can be no mistake if there's nothing to reflect upon. From there, the industry becomes worse by the day.

> One of favourite youtubers finally uploads after months! > Watch the video > Depression

@myboyfriend95

20 күн бұрын

A good video is a good video regardless.

@snowman7118

20 күн бұрын

@@myboyfriend95 of course but this is sad

@PARTY_MUTT

20 күн бұрын

Excellent video, just a damn shame it’s true 😞

@umrayquazashinyapareceu1672

20 күн бұрын

I am convinced that i've seen the same 4 players in casual than in any others i met in community servers. Tf2 is an ACTUAL walking corpse.

@Victor62784

20 күн бұрын

​@@umrayquazashinyapareceu1672 call TF2 William Afton the way it's somehow standing after years starving

amusingly, it would probably be in valve's disinterest to ban idlers or represent the data more accurately, for the panic it would cause

tf2 has fallen. millions must ban idle bots.

The analogy of a beating heart introduced at the start of the video personified tf2's state in a genuinely touching and sad way.

@xXSimplySammyXx

20 күн бұрын

That was a very interesting way of looking at it. Makes sense too.

@Stoneley

19 күн бұрын

I agree, TF2 feels like it's in a coma with a hat perfusion that is slowly killing it

@roman108

19 күн бұрын

Stuck on life support and slowly dying

@Le_runtus4000

18 күн бұрын

Tio paulo. Being used for money, long after being dead

@BrasiI

18 күн бұрын

​@@Le_runtus4000 acho que ninguém vai saber quem é o tio Paulo num vídeo gringo '-'

The heart beat comparison is such a great analogy. If you were put on a heart monitor, and your heart beat looked like TF2's player count, there would be something *seriously* wrong.

@CoolSs

20 күн бұрын

I can't believe i am sad about game that have heart disease. OUR TF2 IS FLATLINING ;~;

@OizenX

20 күн бұрын

@@CoolSs Well no, its not. It has a pretty dedicated playerbase of around 20-30k players. I don't see whats particularly wrong about this. I'd trade the stupid bloated player numbers if it meant no more bots.

@lepatrick4596

20 күн бұрын

tf2 has arrhythmia

@DrDanthrax99_tf2

20 күн бұрын

Bro if your EKG looked like the Steam playercount they'd be wheeling in a crash cart.

@CoolSs

20 күн бұрын

@@OizenX 20-30k still put tf2 in top 50 games on steam. What is good number

We will die on a hill of delusion, with a gravestone that says " Some people can t let go of their past, so they make it their future".

There's one angle that has yet to be examined. One explanation of why this hasn't been fixed is that the bots benefits valve. How? Valve has a very unusual flat structure, and employees choose what they want to work on. Employees seek to work on projects with the maximum productivity possible for the time put in. This encourages moonshots (VR headsets, SteamDeck) or new forms of monetisation (Crates in tf2, the Steam marketplace, Proton bringing games to Linux, games built around microtransactions like Artifact, CS:GO's item grades, and knives, which create insane value due to scarcity). There's no person at the top guiding the ship in a single direction, and valve exists to produce value (read: money), so how are the people there motivated to work on project A vs project B? What if value employees are ranked based on the amount of money their total man-hours have produced? As long as the tf2 marketplace prints money, no employees want to work on the game for any other reason, as it'll negatively impact their productivity ranking. TF2 might be seen as the golden goose for those employees who initially worked on it - no effort involved and a stable source of positive ranking while they do other things they're interested in that will also boost their ranking further. Working on the game in any way is likely only going to serve to reduce your ratio of hours worked to the revenue produced. Most bots revolve around the marketplace, essentially contributing to it. Removing cheating bots wouldn't 'produce' much, and as Zesty points out, the number of 'real' players has largely remained stable for years, so you might see removing those bots as a waste of time and will likely only harm your ranking if you've worked at Valve for awhile. On top of that, you would be working against yourself to try and remove idling bots as they contribute to the game's marketplace; your work would REDUCE the revenue the game generates. You might even be incentivised to ensure they AREN'T removed. Newer employees would stay far from it - why fix TF2 when your ranking will be helped much more by working on Steam or the Steam deck? If you haven't worked there for long, improving TF2 won't harm your long-standing ranking, but it will only do little to increase it. It may also explain why CS2 is getting infested. However, I suspect those cheaters will be fixed, as that marketplace is worth much more, and you run the risk of driving away big real spenders to games like Valorant or simply alienating them entirely. Assuming this is how things work and you're a Valve employee, would you work on TF2? Remember, Valve is a privately owned playground for some of the most competent people in software with otherworldly employee benefits, incredible pay, and free rein to work on some of the most interesting problems around. Valve spearheaded the entirety of modern VR (a very interesting story in and of itself). Getting to work there is one of the most prestigious things you can achieve as a software engineer, and it's incredibly competitive. Valve makes more money per head than Facebook and Apple by country mile. Valve is not a games company anymore; it is a crucible for extremely talented and intelligent people with the loose objective to produce value. If you aren't constantly working towards that, you probably aren't going to work there for long. In an environment like that, who *would* care about making a 17-year-old game more playable? The idea of putting your job at risk to do that is probably insane to most people working there - I doubt they even give it much thought.

@Tombstone-ri2ts

4 күн бұрын

I ain't reading allat

@elfascisto6549

2 күн бұрын

Makes sense, i woild go as far to say we won't be getting even an actual update, much less a botfix. Saying that tf2 will persevere through this and the bots will go away and there will be a x update, is just copium to me. The game is over

@elielc.8459

Күн бұрын

This is such a great analysis of the situation. I think you're right on the money.

Dead internet theory

@coolersnoipah173

20 күн бұрын

Dead TF2 theory

@chrxstt

20 күн бұрын

i’ll show u a dead internet theory 👅

@IVEdge

20 күн бұрын

@@coolersnoipah173 CS2 has a lot of bots farming cases because it's actually profitable.

@nsmnk3922

20 күн бұрын

It was always true... now yuo see...

@taco8077

20 күн бұрын

I never understood why a dying internet was such a dreadful idea. It just means mfs are touching more grass fr

Remember guys: Valve is just a small indie multi-billion dollar transnational tech hegemony with a stranglehold monopoly on digital game distribution. Fixing bots is simply beyond their means.

@Labyrinth6000

20 күн бұрын

Shounic did a video explaining that getting rid of bots is NOT as simple as people think. They have thought of and tried everything and none of the solutions worked or would result in punishing players more with bots returning in a short time. I say get rid of the free drop system as it is from a bygone era and replace it with a weekly challenge system to at least fight off the idle bots.

@EndurusVlogs

19 күн бұрын

@@Labyrinth6000 and yes that's true they absolutely have the recourses to at least TRY... (once again MULTI BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY WITH A NEAR MONOPOLY)

@hb4174

19 күн бұрын

@@Labyrinth6000zesty says later on how fixing the hit may be treadmill work but most jobs are treadmill work, I imagine the reason most anti cheat’s work is because they are constantly updated to prevent cheaters and bots from invading games, cause of course you need to, they’ll find exploits all the time if you don’t update consistently, you’re telling me that a multi billion dollar corporation can’t hire people to constantly update their anti cheat?

@triceratroytv2292

19 күн бұрын

They don't fucking care lmao

@HexPhoenix

19 күн бұрын

I believe the reason for inaction is complete lack of incentive. What benefit does Valve gain from battling the bots? Even if we ignore the cost of "treadmill work", how could it ever be a profitable move? If Valve managed to remove ALL bots from the game, all it would accomplish is reduce Steam's player numbers by 70-80%. The truth is that Team Fortress 2 is in a paradoxically stable state. A game from 2007 with around 20-25000 concurrent players with basically zero maintenance is a miracle. It would be foolish, even if morally correct, for Valve to do anything about it as long as the passionate community holds just as well as it did this last decade. AND it gets to stay in Steam's top 10 most played games.

Why does this feel like someone examining a sick animal?

@mishavuimo5753

2 күн бұрын

Buddy, i have bad news for ya...

@arciks11

12 сағат бұрын

You answered your own question. This puppy's been rabid for a good while now.

the house x tf2 intro is a banger wtf

sorry, my army of Chinese sweatshop workers are playing tf2 rn and they are told to log on and off when I say. I have about 100,000 of them.

@GigaChad682

14 күн бұрын

No cause only the Chinese government is allowed to enslave their citizens!!!!!1!1!1!1!!!!😡😡😡😡😡🥵😡😡😡😡😡

@a_man_with_a_plan

14 күн бұрын

me too

@myoak108

14 күн бұрын

Why even copy another comment? @SnipingIsAGoodJobMate made basically the same joke, 4 days before you. Why even do it?

@duckotron_game9

14 күн бұрын

@myoak108 why do you even care

@duckotron_game9

14 күн бұрын

@@myoak108 plus I don't think he actually cares, your cry of me making a similar joke is for what?

IT'S OVER... It's over not... IT'S OVER.. It's over not...

@CoolSs

20 күн бұрын

this is not 100% mudskipper.

@TheAMeister

20 күн бұрын

@@CoolSsmudskipper 🤤

@denizo9263

20 күн бұрын

Minecraft is real

@ayhan4472

20 күн бұрын

I liked your last video

@fadedgames1

20 күн бұрын

*IT'S FUCKING OVER AGAIN*

I seriously don't know why you get so much hate, your videos are well put together and you actually care about the game. keep up the great work, zesty!

@hammerdude4360

9 күн бұрын

Guts and Blackballs

Trade bots being in-game is not only for aesthetic purposes it also makes them appear higher up on your friends list so that you can find them more easily

it's fucking depressing that THIS is the truth about TF2's real player count. more people really should be addressing this issue. screw the portion of the community that doesn't want people talking about issues like this, we need to spread the word.

@Supercohboy

14 күн бұрын

This has been a longstanding issue and is now emblematic of just how fucked up digital right/law is nowadays, imo. In general, we lack privacy rights and digital ownership rights, which makes 0 sense, and to top it off there's a TON of crime happening online that is going almost-completely ignored. People HAVE to be laundering money through these bots, Valve is MAKING MONEY off of it, and this would lead to worldwide controversy if it was done through non-digital means. This black market is big enough to gross millions USD collectively at this point (assuming these bots make a few years of profit before shutdown or VAC ban), or just shy of it, which means a LOT of bad-guy money is potentially getting cleaned and a LOT of scammers are bleeding honest consumers dry, taking their money out of the legitimate economy and stealing it away into the pockets of Shen Chung the vape addict who's too smart to work at the iPhone factory in China, not when he could make more money scamming people from home.

@FatherAndrew-Scarlet-Priest

14 күн бұрын

@@Supercohboy the bots are easily a billion dollar industry or greater at this point; probably large Chinese-based cheap laptop setups in a dirty warehouse somewhere in hong kong or some shit, running 60 bazillion instances of TF2 in text mode; farming items; selling them to some trading website for cash, and either laundering it, or using it to fund larger illegal activities. What exactly it would be funding idk; some mob or mafia shit in china probably; or even the Chinese government for all we know. Regardless; the bot farms are 100% being used for money; as to fund something.

@bennyreda9415

11 күн бұрын

Spread what word? We literally screamed and had huge KZreadrs talk about us until valve finally woke up and went on Twitter and STILL nothing happened, what more do you want us to do?

@TheRedKing247

10 күн бұрын

Zesty's just grifting here lmao because people have been bitching about the bot problem and by extension as the real cause of the problem, Valve's abandonment of TF2, for YEARS. Since before even Jungle Inferno released. No one is hiding the issue, some people have just moved on to other topics as it's sadly clear Valve won't do anything about it.

@phoenixflambe3319

9 күн бұрын

@@TheRedKing247 Pessi-ception. I am aware but even voicing out with voice and wallet does nothing anyway. Too rich to lose anything. Too ignorant to talk to their own playerbase

This is the reality check that the community desperately needed

@jotave49

20 күн бұрын

The tf2 community is one the most delusional and annoying communities ever. They won't accept this.

@darthgamer9861

20 күн бұрын

sadly I feel, like every video Zesty makes, that this one will be ignored or shunned because like he said, not a lot of people talk about TF2’s issues

@temkin9298

20 күн бұрын

Because we march, we marched across 2fort, badlands, dustbowl, turbine, oh so much more. We laughed and cried now we are afraid of falling, our path became a tight rope. So we march and march, never skiping a beat, echo our songs, echo our joys, we are alone in empty servers, none will come. We march and march till we can no more, few remaining now huddled in corners of our world. Apoclapyse has come and armagedon shall reign, still we march and march and march till we can go no longer. So says who will shoulder more burden, who worries that a game will be smouldered and he will worry and worry till he can no longer.

@Iwatoda_Dorm

20 күн бұрын

To think that not even a lot of people care... It's simple to see that videos about tf2 gain more engagement than the game itself. I'd say it's more that the content creators that have a tf2 background are really awesome people :v

@umrayquazashinyapareceu1672

20 күн бұрын

And my exit ticket. Why play a game where there are no players?

Dang. He just cut off the copium the community has been taking for years.

I used to make tf2 shorts and got over 5k subs. My most popular one is almost 3 years old and it's about how nothing changed in an update (the one where they removed sprays). The worst thing is - it is still being shown to people. And it's still relevant. Cause nothing changed.

There's so many playercount inflations, Pyrocynical would go crazy

@rmw9420

19 күн бұрын

who do you think is behind the scenes inflating the game. it certainly can't be le furry inflation youtuber

@SLVYER1

16 күн бұрын

I see investor inflation and I have for years, I know you've been given a form to complain right now but I've been complaining about this exact issue for 10 years and nothing has happened and no one has become the wiser it's because it makes the world go round and I know you've been given a form to complain right now but I've been complaining about this exact issue for 10 years and nothing has happened and no one has become the wiser it's because it makes the world go round. Every game is like 200 to 2000 players and no more than that I'm not exaggerating maybe on release for a AAA title sure, but a week after - I'm right, and ended so flayed and designed to hurt you that you can either agree with me or you can just purchase the next game and get scammed and figure it out for yourself until you hate games.

@demoman5864

16 күн бұрын

Lmao

@secretname2670

16 күн бұрын

Mein herz brennt lmao

The data isn't surprising at all - the game hasn't had a major update in 6 years. Nothing bringing new people in, the f2p restrictions have only disincentivised new players trying the game out.

@somefries3101

20 күн бұрын

@@Chimpywashere yeah we don't need an update that fixes the terrible issues that tf2 has if the community keeps talking about the game 😂😂😂

@Chimpywashere

20 күн бұрын

@@somefries3101then maybe you can explain why teamwork.tf’s statistics have been relatively consistent for over 6 years despite their being no update? Do you think it’s been the same 10k people playing for 6 years? No, the playerbase constantly rotates. New people come in, old people leave. Just because a game has stopped growing doesn’t mean it’s dead or broken. We’ve had over 6 six years of consistent player numbers. The game is fine.

@skrubstar9056

20 күн бұрын

@@Chimpywashere You've actively missed the point if you can point to the current state of TF2 and say that the game is fine. Log into a game, and tell me how many times you have to kick a spinbot, or the new player experience, or anything. Or that the only kind of updates we get are community made slot machines anymore. But fine, let's pretend for a moment that the game is fine because having a stable actual player count is this wonderful silver lining. That in no way means players shouldn't be able, and willing to demand more. Hell, CS2 is going through it right now with their own cheater issue, and they get more love than TF2 at a base level. In its current state, why would Valve bother putting in more effort into TF2? Updates don't matter since the player counts are largely botted, gambling addicts will spend money anyways, players deal with the bots and just kick them or play on community servers, and any negative PR is self policed anyways within the system. So genuinely, what is the incentive to put any effort into making TF2 better? Valve is a billion dollar company, and it's long past due that the TF2 player base gets that treatment rather than community wide cope that everything is fine, and Valve will come back someday if we all just stay the course.

@Chimpywashere

20 күн бұрын

@@skrubstar9056 you know what, yeah. The game is fine. Because there’s always been consistent player numbers. If the game is really dead/dying the numbers wouldn’t be so consistent even on teamwork.tf. If the game really had major problems people wouldn’t be playing it. So who is playing it? Answer me that question. And I’ll tell you something that’ll piss you off, we don’t deserve Valve.

@skrubstar9056

20 күн бұрын

@@Chimpywashere Honestly, the fact that you can say "Looking at the player count" and claim that the game is entirely fine without acknowledging any of the major issues really tells me all I need to know. As for "pissing me off", I quite frankly don't care about your opinion. I've disliked Valve for years due to them running a Grey Market Casino while not even having the decency to support said games. I don't have loyalty to a Company, and you shouldn't really either, but it's your life at the end of the day.

I watch a lot of horror shit on youtube and I dont think any of them filled me with nearly as much dread as this video has.

@rofs3274

Күн бұрын

The matrix type of dread Everything you belived is a lie

I've always been of the opinion that Valve's praise among the gaming community is completely undeserved, they were PIONEERS on some of the most dogshit monetization schemes in games (lootboxes in TF2 and CS and even battlepasses with TF2 contracts to some extent), their neglect for TF2 and honestly gaming in general (seriously when was the last time valve made an actual new PC game?) is laughable, Valve today is STEAM and nothing more, they are a shadow of what they used to be.

@sethweddle5160

13 күн бұрын

You're right on the money. Valve actually invented the first battle passes EVER with the first Dota 2 Compendium in 2013, like 3-4 years before Fortnite had one and the battle pass avalanche started. Granted, that was only on an annual basis at first, but Valve pretty quickly got seasonal Dota 2 compendiums (battle passes) going, complete with "Get this super duper epic rare skin for $100 of compendium levels, or grind Dota 2 for 300 hours to get it - but be careful! The Battle Pass is only active for 60 days!" scarcity tactics.

@darthgamer9861

12 күн бұрын

this. Its one thing to look the otherway on these issues when Valve is actively providing the goods. they arent anymore so its impossible to ignore what issues they have actively contributed to or invented.

@GmodFilmsTR

6 күн бұрын

Im thankful valve exists no matter what. portal 2 tf2 half life 2 and gmod wouldnt have existed. I dont care if they do the worst thing as humanely possible on something. the things they have made are amazing.

@malif1279

4 күн бұрын

Old Valve is constantly getting praised by the wider gaming community because they made some of the best video games ever made Current Valve is getting constantly praised by the wider gaming community because they are the one of two corps out there to make a feature rich, functional and GOOD digital video game marketplace The other being GOG which doesn't have as many features as steam but is still great because of their DRM-free focus All the other launchers though? Literal dogshit. So much compared to Steam that gamers are willing to give them a pass on the lootbox & battle pass stuff because of it It is not that hard to understand lmao

@doublet3n672

4 күн бұрын

@@malif1279 Sorry, i won't bootlick a company that ignores one of their most popular IPs and is responsible for a bunch of terrible monetization schemes because they do the bare minimum of having an usable game launcher and marketplace, yes EPIC, Origin, EA are terrible, but if your redeeming quality is that you are better that the literal bottom of the barrel, are you really that great?

This video is the 9/11 for tf2 players

@holdenroberts6973

14 күн бұрын

It's more like the cameras filming it. He didn't create the disaster, just reported on it.

@ncrranger6861

14 күн бұрын

what? TF2 is less popular than Overwatch? (without Battlenet, PS and XBOX) But it was our only argument... I can't live anymore... *SHOT SOUNDS IN THE EMPTY ROOM*

@secretname2670

14 күн бұрын

@@ncrranger6861 if we assume that right now (as of writing this comment 07.05.2024 - 16:06 - tuesday) 50% of tf2 players are bots, then Overwatch 2 is ahead by 3 thousand players. I was expecting tf2 to die in 2018 but statistics like this are acceptable too.

@ncrranger6861

14 күн бұрын

@@secretname2670 The funniest thing still this is only steam online. Without BNet/PS/XBOX/NinSwitch

@otsokarhu9695

10 күн бұрын

​@@secretname2670 But it's probably More than 50% as Zesty shows on the video.

Absolutely killed r/tf2 users with this one, despite being a member, ngl they have been very delusional regarding valve and bots.

@harshpunkjazznoise

18 күн бұрын

Can’t really blame em. A large piece of the community that still continues to play today have probably been playing the game since release so it must be hard for them to accept the fact that their most loved game has been “dead.” The game hasn’t been dying or growing in the 7 years so that’s nessessarily not a bad thing at all.

@pitbowl

18 күн бұрын

I remember when they were defending valve when they changed their statement on the summer update. Pathetic

@Gofaw

17 күн бұрын

redditors aren't people

@dot0l

17 күн бұрын

r/tf2 is so in denial about the game's state that it legit gaslit me into thinking the game was in a better state and trying it out again in late 2023 after a 2-year hiatus. yes, the game is still very fun but it wasn't long before i was reminded why i quit in the first place. and it's so much worse than ever now. even on peak hours the game can be completely unplayable.

@Gofaw

17 күн бұрын

Redditors are not people

An excellent video and in depth view of TF2's bot crisis. I first started playing TF2 back in 2013 and I have nothing but fond memories about it. The wacky and zany lore and characters as well as the friendly players kept me coming back. I don't think I really realized the game was going downhill until a few months after Jungle Inferno when I noticed a definite shift in the community's atmosphere. People were tense and even standoffish at times, and I kept hearing people complaining about bots, all the while I played the fool because I had yet to have my first encounter. Soon after I remember having any enjoyment in the game crushed when an aimbotting Ambassador Spy with a pocket medic and wall hacks (as in he was shooting us through walls) mowed down my team while the opposing team refused to kick them. I think the last time I booted up TF2 was in 2020, and the sheer amount of cheaters and micspam bots made the game completely unplayable. I never realized how irregular TF2's Steam Charts were before this video since I never bothered to compare it to another game's charts. I also didn't realize how bad the botting problem was, that it's not just cheaters and traders, but basically an entire industry built upon farming digital items. 4 year ago TF2's economy was a wet fart of a joke, so I can only imagine that the idlers are only making chump change by eventually selling all that refined for actual money. The most likely reason why they do it is because it's money they can make for free, and Valve doesn't give a shit. Hell Valve can't even be arsed to release a proper game anymore. Half-Life: Alyx was doomed to only reach an extremely niche audience by making it exclusively VR, and I remember people being extremely pissed when CS2 came out, so they must have screwed up epicly. I don't understand why the modern TF2 community treats any critiscism as taboo, especially any talk about the bot crisis. The fact that their solution is to smile and make funny videos ending in a hashtag makes it seem like even the people who are "protesting" don't want you to know how bad the situation is, as if their actual goal is to advertise the game to new players in a desperate attempt to increase the true player count. It's like TF2 is dead and the only reason the coroner hasn't declared a time of death yet is because the community and those at Valve who still benefit from the game's microtransactions have barricaded the door to the room. I know this is an extremely long winded post but one last thing: I love the use of Metroid Prime 2: Echoes' ost for this video. The soundtrack for that game is extremely unnerving, especially since you're basically trapped all alone on an alien planet with long moments of tension that are interrupted by major threats that jump out at you. Playing that game late at night was the catalyst of several nightmares when I was younger. The soundtrack does a really good job of highlighting how messed up the bot problem is and how deep it goes.

@eggystarfish833

Күн бұрын

damn i guess i just read a middle school length essay.

I havent touched tf2 since the summer "update-sized update", but I have still been watching a lot of videos about it. The part where you said this is the game everyone loves to talk about but nobody wants to play is so real man, I love it, but it's gotten boring to play due to valve's disgusting inaction.

It's over...

@CoolSs

20 күн бұрын

ඞ

@JetToo-gl4xs

20 күн бұрын

ITS NOT OVER!!

@StoneBox_761a

20 күн бұрын

ITS JOEVER

@HunterStiles651

20 күн бұрын

@@StoneBox_761a Could it possibly be more over?

@alfonshedstrom9859

20 күн бұрын

It's ok

I could handle hearing that most of tf2s player count is bots. I can "somewhat" handle hearing that the player boost during updates is also mostly bots. But hearing that during said updates the number of real players barely changes that is soul crushing. Its normal to hear bots coming in but to hear that real people arent that there is just sad.

@r.g.thesecond

20 күн бұрын

Hope no weirdo comes out of the woodwork to spin this as a good thing. All the drama, hype and crash of "update-sized update", seasonal update churn and new stuff, but we are all just nearly the same ~20k people that actually engage with the game.

@umrayquazashinyapareceu1672

20 күн бұрын

I thought that most where cheating though (don't ask me how it wasn't pure hell)

@juke9674

20 күн бұрын

Devil's Advocate: The "Updates" are usually all cosmetic, and most of our F2P population dont care because they arent gonna buy cosmetics anyways. Thus theres no reason to care about the update, even if it adds the odd map or two

@Pasha231514

20 күн бұрын

Every time I try it - I get classic quake problem. TF2 players are not fun to play against. As person rarely played tf2 from time to time over more than decade it's just sad to not have guns, and play against those who cheat or simply spent years perfecting own skill. That's not fair nor fun

@dylanhinkel3548

20 күн бұрын

The last seasonal I was excited for and enjoyed was scream fortress X 2018. Every seasonal since hasn’t kept me playing more than a day.

This explains why Valve is no longer interested in updating this game any more and why you shouldn't spending more money on keys and skins in it.

well that explains the market oversaturation

I am 100% convinced that the TF2 "Fanbase" are just people that consume the game through reddit and twitter

@sirgideonofnirtheall-knowi1881

20 күн бұрын

Guilty as charged, I haven't touched the game at all. Just like watching people talk about it on KZread.

@ddd-op5wy

20 күн бұрын

I've put in about 500 hours now since starting last year, but I kept watching for many years without playing so I get it in a sense.. TF2 has a great number of good content creators and the game was massive in the early 2010s so most people understand it even if they haven't touched it in a decade. It sucks though because I ended up loving it even more now than I did back in the 2010s just because I gave it a try again, but most people probably aren't bothering and are just watching content on it.

@Yama-qg3il

20 күн бұрын

Personally, I've got many hours in TF2 and I consider myself part of the community or fanbase to a certain point, but it's been a while since I last booted up the game, the conditon of the game, the experience of playing it... it's easy to burn out and only ever play the game for a few months every year and then taking a rest, I still like the memes and the characters, but I play the game less and less... I love the game and I want to love it more but the curret circumstances just don't lend themselves.

@kylemason2836

20 күн бұрын

Haven’t touched vanilla tf in years. TF2 Classic for me

@Bud55

20 күн бұрын

Yeah I only hop on once every few months now and thats because casual is unplayable and community is laggy.

It's 2036. The last two players duel against each other on a 24/7 2Fort server. One is a veteran and is dressed in unusuals while the other only has stock. The default player asks, "What were Gibus players?". The veterans says, "They were players, usually new, who wore this hat called a Gibus, which you can get even as a F2P player if you dominated someone wearing it." He said longingly. "Could I get it?" The newer player asks. "Sorry. I traded away mine years back." "Oh. I see." They then fought on silently afterwards till logging out.

@alexanderraz.

20 күн бұрын

Corny ass comment lol

@timothybodette4924

20 күн бұрын

Alas, this glorious end to tf2 will not happen. Rip the item server crash of '28

@somefries3101

20 күн бұрын

2036 will be the year that Dracula wakes up

@SaintRedFox

20 күн бұрын

erm akchually you cant trade the achievement gibus hat 🤓☝️🍓

@TrainerGoldAlt

20 күн бұрын

yea I ended up scrapping mine which is even fking sadder​@@SaintRedFox

I thought I was gonna get a quick description of TF2‘s declining popularity, turns out I got a extensive lesson in data analytics

I think bots in servers are worse than you think, and they're not all "cheater" bots. I've noticed a lot of community servers that, when you join them, redirects you to some other server that is always mostly-full. But a majority of these "players" are bots. They don't explicitly cheat, they more or less play like a regular human. They'll type random seemingly-legit messages in chat to add credibility, but they ARE bots. Many of these servers operate under the name "fastpath" and there are tons of them. It sounds like I'm schizoposting but this is confirmed when they all simultaneously bug out and start running into walls. And you can join the server at any hour of the day and see the names of the exact same "players", again and again. Not sure what the motivation behind this is, I would guess maybe it's just a less-obvious way to "idle" with your bots. While this is a particularly egregious example, it would not surprise me at all if most servers are peppered with these stealthy bots.

Please, whatever you do, my good sir, do not delete this video. A TF2 KZreadr that I will not mention by name went as far as to interview bot hosters, to do a similar thing that you have done: bring the truth to light. He was shamed and discarded to the point of taking the video down out of fear. DO NOT TAKE THIS DOWN. You have done this community a great service by speaking what needs to be spoken about, regardless of the negative reactions you might receive from it. You've received my like for this, sir, and I wish I could give more. Happy hunting.

@darthgamer9861

19 күн бұрын

why in the seven layers of hell would anyone shame someone for more or less doing an expose on one of the factors that killed the game? Is TF2’s “community” so dedicated to positivity that they’ll shoot the doctor trying to cure a patient?!

@cevatkokbudak6414

19 күн бұрын

​@@darthgamer9861Fun fact: People do that in Türkiye

@mcl_official20XX

19 күн бұрын

@@darthgamer9861 Unironically, yes that is exactly the case.

@military_snake

19 күн бұрын

@@darthgamer9861 sadly, most would rather ignore the problem than address it. thanks to guys like megascatterbomb, who do take major action, it's an encouragement for the rest of us

@bsheepdestroyermakesstuff7222

19 күн бұрын

lon'qudor?

The hardest pill to swallow is that your favourite game of all time is slowly rotting away due to bots, and somehow everyone accepted that... Man...

@somedesertdude1308

20 күн бұрын

I love mvm

@umrayquazashinyapareceu1672

20 күн бұрын

I honestly think its time to quit. I played this game for barely one year, yet it feels as if i played for much longer and as if it's death is too close for confort.

@eltiolavara9

20 күн бұрын

@@umrayquazashinyapareceu1672 its not dying just play community servers

@LeMicronaut

20 күн бұрын

n Co...

@LeMicronaut

20 күн бұрын

@@umrayquazashinyapareceu1672 I had some good fun on TF2 Classic for a little while after the source leaks. The main client honestly feels really bloated and sluggish nowadays, but under all the junk and rust there's still a good party game for a small clan or social media personality cult.

Legit been saying this but tf2 fans are so insecure that dont wanna feel like there wasting a ton of money on a dying game

@JFirecracker

9 күн бұрын

There's nowhere to go that isn't either AI slop or military suckjobbing

Imagine the amount of copium Twitter is gonna need after seeing Zestys video go viral

"Small traces of the original soul can still be detected in the body, but the corpse itself is animated and controlled entirely by the snakelike Parasites that he once commanded." - ULTRAKILL; the Corpse of King Minos' terminal data

@Dalek59862

16 күн бұрын

Never thought ULTRAKILL lore of all things could be used to accurately describe TF2's current state.

@StavDev

16 күн бұрын

TF2 Prime is still in there

@Sam_Neko_animations

16 күн бұрын

why i cant read?

@temmie9430

16 күн бұрын

​@@StavDev tf3 is just a bossfight as scout and you fight an a pose yeavy with a giant mouth

@Bon_fyre

16 күн бұрын

Oh my days the description of the corpse king minos’ actually fits perfectly 😭 But just like the corpse of king Minos, the prime soul of the corpse remains buried deep within a prison, needing something else to break it free and release the soul. In that case it was V1. I’m just not sure who it could be in the case of tf2. It can’t be valve, as like God in the ultrakill universe they abandoned their creation and left it to rot. Maybe someday, someone or something will come along and dismantle this “flesh prison” the soul is stuck in… and maybe once the prison is killed what comes out is the manifestation of willpower too strong to fade.

This is probably the most important video ever released about tf2 and I'm hoping it causes people to actually do something.

@Pinkman999

20 күн бұрын

What’s there to do? The first savetf2 movement did not work. People tried for a second one,a third but after seeing the failure of the first one they just gave up

@rowedahelicon

20 күн бұрын

@@Pinkman999 Tell people to just play on community servers which have 0 problem dealing with bots

@jaydog6674

20 күн бұрын

@@Pinkman999 It was mostly because the SaveTF2 movement was nothing more but the community praising how great the game is and that’s it instead of addressing the actual issues with the game at face value.

@Pinkman999

20 күн бұрын

@@rowedahelicon well that won’t really make Valve work on the game,yeah maybe the aim bots will go but we will be left with like 10k people playing community servers. Valve will have 0 incentive to do anything,not that they do now but you know

@rowedahelicon

20 күн бұрын

@@Pinkman999 That's the point, they don't need to work on the game. The community has the power and tools to provide content and servers. Most of the updates that come out now are just community content added into the game.

tf2 fans are the abused housewives of gaming

This went from "TF2 is dead (Humourous)" to "TF2 is dead (depressing)" real fast Edit: wasn't expecting my fanart to be featured at 58:52

I dont even play the game that much anymore, but that doesnt mean i dont care about it. Hell id hate stuff like this to happen TO ANY GAME, cause i do actually wonder how popular the game would be if Valve actually fuckin botherd anymore like it does for Dota or Counter Strike which according to this video THEY DONT EVEN DO THAT ANYMORE

@iveseenyourface5404

20 күн бұрын

greatdictator! love you and your team's work

@kingkoopa64

20 күн бұрын

Damm, when the TF2, most well-known animator doesn't even want to play the game says something

@triceratroytv2292

19 күн бұрын

It wouldn't be the much bigger even if they updated it, that's why they stopped pushing major updates.

@l1p0v

19 күн бұрын

@@kingkoopa64 if my hobby was animating TF2 characters for several dozen hours a week, I would also have no desire to play the game.

@kingkoopa64

19 күн бұрын

@@l1p0v same

JERMA WAKE UP THEY HIT THE PENTAGON

I’m so happy that someone finally said this because I’ve thought this for years now

tf2 is literally evidence of dead internet theory and it’s pissing me off

@TannerLindberg

19 күн бұрын

Just an fyi dead internet theory is 100% true. And anyone who's been on the internet for the last 2 decades or so can easily point it out.

@VexxThePrecursor07

18 күн бұрын

​@@TannerLindbergBeep boop I am a robot.

@LARA-sg4bt

18 күн бұрын

What is dead internet theory? That the majority of the people online are bots?

@slyseal2091

18 күн бұрын

@@TannerLindberg It's never been a theory, even in the early 2000s people thought it was very funny that 90% of all internet traffic is just pron consumed by a fraction of the remaining 10%. The trick is that people now believe that the addition of AI makes low-brow content more prevalent, or bad, or that they are forced to interact with it all the time. You ignore it in the same way hand-crafted content slop has been ignored since the days of pop up ads.

@gromblereal

17 күн бұрын

@@slyseal2091 i refuse to believe that 90% of internet was just pron 40% okay, 60% a little much, but 90% come on man that has to be made up

Don't get why no one addressed the coalmining toaster army in the room for this fucking long

@phoenixrq9139

20 күн бұрын

Best sentence I'd never expect to hear this week

@cevatkokbudak6414

19 күн бұрын

Lmao

@evagineer9165

19 күн бұрын

What can the community do now that this game is starting to fall apart overtime.

@WaterBisquitte

17 күн бұрын

They make Valve lots of money through SCM case sales

@isg4

15 күн бұрын

​​​@@evagineer9165 it didn't START to fall apart It's already been falling apart since 2016 You could make the savetf2 movement more harsh and apprehensive Instead of screaming how much you love your house that is burning down, scream how hard it's burning down, who set it on fire and for the fire deparment to get off their arses

Thanks for doing so much work researching the game we all love. I would usually accompany this with something like "hopefully the devs see this and do something about it", but sadly, I think that ship has sailed a long time ago.

Mannn, as a newbie that’s been playing since august, it’s the most brutal welcoming to a game I’ve ever had for any game I’ll ever play But yet, I still play the game a lot, even if I must accept I’m walking in a ruined kingdom, because when every negative aspect is no longer there, it’s one of the most fun shooters you’ll ever play

@rubberduckyducky2336

14 күн бұрын

It’s like, I want to keep playing but I have no reason to

"What inspired you to become a master of digital forensics?" Are you farmilliar with hats?

@niono1587

13 күн бұрын

gooden

Believe it or not, this game is no longer a game about two teams fighting each other with a small but popular economy based around hats. We are now the minority all 18,000 of us, the rest is just trading and farming bots, this is a hat trading gacha game disguised as a class based shooter, and your proof is how Valve acted with the crate depression.

@Choco____1

19 күн бұрын

That's an insult to gacha games. At least with gacha games, there is no possibility of getting money, keeping them from being gambling games. It's more like a sinister crypto-market wearing a videogame as a mask.

@halyoalex8942

19 күн бұрын

@@Choco____1 The best analogy i can think of is that this game has become the PC equivalent of Monopoly GO. Yeah, it's THAT bad.

@croc6105

18 күн бұрын

Holy shit you cannot be this delusional, and I thought zesty was already bad.

@wile123456

18 күн бұрын

It's just a glimpse into the future where every tech company wants to make a "meta verse", and you won't be playing to have fun, you will be the bot, spending time to earn a slave salary in a fake virtual economy.

@dragonandavatarfan8865

16 күн бұрын

@@Choco____1 Yea hol up bud lets not pretend ur precious waifu collecting gacha are fully innocent either. Sure there's no incentive to make money but all the other aspects of gambling tactics to make you lose ur money is still there.

Wow. This is horrible... im glad this video exists, it's crazy nobody else has brought this up yet

@ohgodno1989

8 күн бұрын

People apparently have, multiple times. TF2 players just don't want to hear it. But it's impossible to ignore when a well respected KZreadr in the community puts out an hour long video about it.

For your next video, you should discuss the toxic positivity of the TF2 community. They need to hear this.

There’s like 3 people in a dark room who fix bugs, there is no update, there will be no update

@leafofyume7838

20 күн бұрын

i dont think the 2 developers left even have much power. look at their updates. like, vs saxton hale was implemented whit vscript and is not its own thing. or when all they did was restrict free to plays instead of implementing proper solutions into the game. their updates seem to be always narrowed down to some areas. and that seems to include many areas that makes people come back to the game. i wonder why.

@ColonelKlink1965

20 күн бұрын

It's actually 2 people.

@daussiedude1848

20 күн бұрын

@@leafofyume7838the heart of TF2 will always be a server full of people either engaged in the game or shitposting, nonetheless people having fun. VSH and community servers, while not being the original beauty of TF2 by any means, are some of the last vestiges of the heart of it now that casual is kinda dead due to bots and alternatives being sweat central. It’s harder than ever for some kid with a cheap computer to download and fuck around on a choice of fully populated casual servers, as well as community servers that aren’t so toxic as they are now. There was a charm to those Minecraft maps back in the day but I think those are about as dead as casual in terms of the charm of TF2

@gtgunar

20 күн бұрын

When the 64 bit switch arrived, I really got my hopes high NGL. It was a huge work in the background probably. I am a bit confused on why it wasn't followed up by something. Relaunch for Macs, Source 2 "Reborn" like in Dota 2, or just additional performance boosts that are only available with the 64 bit version (precompiled functions that are not runnable on all CPUs but at least on most, and detected by the program to be runnable), like different extensions being used like SSE2+, AVX-s etc. Not to mention other advanced stuff becoming easier in the future. TBH, I kind of don't understand, why TF2 only had the 64 bit now, when the technology was there years before the game came out. I guess requiring a 64 bit OS was a bit steep back then.

@number3766

20 күн бұрын

2-3 people who work on TF2 on their FREE TIME! They literally are doing it FOR FREE while actively working on OTHER PROJECTS!

i love how your drawl immediately kicks in when you say the word "spikes" and then goes away again

@Nicoder6884

20 күн бұрын

I noticed that too!

@Kaiveran

19 күн бұрын

SpAHke 'round here...

@AverageConsumer-uj8sm

17 күн бұрын

I heard it too!!!

Everyone remember Valve's Twitter response to #SaveTF2 and how the comment chain got easily co-opted by nonsense posts and suspiciously inhuman shit posting? There aren't even enough TF2 players to sustain a Twitter comment chain. We've been believing a fantasy this whole time.

@godlyvex5543

15 күн бұрын

15-25k players is more than enough to have a healthy community.

Hearing people speak about this game like its doing fine feels like being in the fucking truman show and hearing your wife advertise coffee to the walls and ceiling.

I really thought initially that this was going to be the usual "OoOoOoOOO TF2 is DyInG" video but WOW. You really did your homework well. It was mind shattering to say the least. 20-30K for a REALLY old-ass game is still good and it is assuring to hear that at least the number isn't going down further. Thank you for the video it was truly amazing.

@boop004

17 күн бұрын

yeah but isn't that 20-30K GLOBALLY?

@catdotjs

17 күн бұрын

@@boop004 I have some experience with gamedev and trust me 20-30k is very cushy spot to be in.

@gamesbond9513

14 күн бұрын

@@boop004 its really not that low, its just shocking for a game that should have 200k players, but instead really has heavily deflated numbers like 20-30k

@user-ez7ed7kd8e

13 күн бұрын

Cope

@yuuki671

11 күн бұрын

​@@user-ez7ed7kd8eeat my meat

It's genuinely sad people will just shun your content, even if its true. This is a reality check most TF2 players needed. And they don't wanna believe so.

@TheDuckyDino

18 күн бұрын

"They Hated [Zesty] Jesus because he spoke the truth"

@Doremysweets

17 күн бұрын

nah I hate this guy still but this video is actually true. valve needs to get their shit together and this kind of callout's important.

@OrigiNope

17 күн бұрын

Why is he hated?

@isg4

15 күн бұрын

​@@OrigiNope some shit he said and I guess his muscle mommy avatar being an aged up version of a younger character

I didn't know there was a TF2 player that wasn't on copium

This video would mean Overwatch 2 was had a higher player count the whole time!

@randomman9231

2 күн бұрын

I mean, obviously? TF2 is completely dead on consoles while Overwatch is most popular on console. Not to mention steam isn’t the primary launcher for Overwatch, it’s BNET.

A tough pill to swallow, we are NOT making it out of 2fort with this one

@mentlegen1632

20 күн бұрын

The unironically most reasonable option is to just cashout our entire inventories and wait for the shit to collapse due to the impending armagedon for the trading community. And after that we will have had around a year before valve pulls the plug.

@NotSpecialDude

20 күн бұрын

@@mentlegen1632 The catch is that only the ones who cash out FIRST get away scot free. Once people start cutting and running, the market will start crashing FASTER.

@Ryzard

20 күн бұрын

​@@mentlegen1632oh absolutely. If people quit trading, the bots would die out, due to the costs not bringing back anything

@Looona_fan

20 күн бұрын

🧊🧊🧊🧊🧊🧊🧊🧊🧊🧊

@Ervonesque

20 күн бұрын

Sooner or later, we WILL get out of 2fort, don't worry, whether you like it or not, you'll leave.

I remember making a video back in 2016 about the "cat bots" and how them and other bots alike are destroying the game and making the game unfun and how it will become the undoing of the game in its whole. Though my channel was tiny. There were a lot of dislikes and all the comments disagreed with me. Telling me to "stop complaining" and "your looking too far in to this"... I didnt fight back against them, I just took the video down instead (I regret doing that). Looking back nearly 8 years later I wonder what those peoples opinions on the situation are now...

@dac5782

20 күн бұрын

I'd wager at least 50% will take the "ignorance is bliss"/gaslight route and keep vehemently denying anything is wrong with the game.

@CoolSs

19 күн бұрын

I remember the first version of cat bots. they were programed to not shoot you if you are taunting or crouching. people only recognized the bot problem in 2018 because for odd reason they went away in 2017 (maybe it's the update) tf2 support ended after the blue moon update.

@PotentialGrim

18 күн бұрын

Those people that answered you don’t care anymore, they don’t play or remember. The player count is like 12k so why would they.

@CoolSs

18 күн бұрын

@@PotentialGrim are you going to spam this reply in every comment ?

@PotentialGrim

18 күн бұрын

@@CoolSs lol

Finally got around to watching this. It really is sad. TF2 was a pride n' joy as a game for me, and I grew up playing it alongside Halo. I guess that's why I slowly drifted to not play TF2 anymore: bots. Most of the time (even when I attempt playing at peak hours), bots. Every now and then I'll just play on a community server for a couple of hours, maybe boot up training mode, have my fix, and be done. I don't really get excited anymore for any sort of updates, and I'm on the line of thinking that it's only a matter of time. It just... Really sucks, because I still like this game, but I just don't play it as much, if at all anymore. Thank you for the information here, it enlightened me on the player count, which always puzzled me for years.

Man I'm glad Pyro watched this video so I could ignore his and come to your channel. This is fantastic work my friend I'm here for it.

man if the steam charts are a games heartbeat then tf2 is fucking flatlined 💀

@ziphy_6471

17 күн бұрын

It's joever

@thenumber24

17 күн бұрын

@@ziphy_6471 we are so bidone

@ziphy_6471

17 күн бұрын

@@thenumber24 We truly are bidone 😔

@uhhidke

15 күн бұрын

we can never go barack

@Vhie05

13 күн бұрын

TF2 is just one life support at that point

I guess Gray man finally succeeded in taking over Mann co and had his bots be the majority that plays TF2.🐱

@sakesaurus1706

20 күн бұрын

the lore was prophetic

@a.person1805

20 күн бұрын

The real final comic was within us all along

@user-bkey

20 күн бұрын

@@a.person1805 nah this is actually poetic

@ComparativelyRegular

20 күн бұрын

@@a.person1805 Absolute cinema

@Ervonesque

20 күн бұрын

Turns out the comics is not parodying reality, reality is parodying the comics

Good analysis! Respect y'all making due despite incomplete data! Lowkey a good introduction into Data Science

I started playing TF2 since around 2018. I was pretty late to the party, but even then I loved the game to death back in the day and was practically the only game I'd play for a couple of years. Meanwhile, online, TF2 was the only thing I'd watch and read about. However, for a couple of years I've been falling off the game for a while, I just got caught up with life and other interests showed up, so I'm not as invested in TF2 as I once used to, but it's still a game that I adore a lot. It's not often I check up on TF2 KZreadrs, even popular ones I used to love, but you've always been an exception. It honestly really baffles me when I check up on you and watch people treat you like the reason this game has been falling off, when in reality you're practically doing God's work for this game. You're one of the few I've seen who genuinely cares about this 17-year-old, and is doing anything in his power to make its lifespan last longer by presenting the facts: TF2 is NOT doing well, at all. And instead of confirming to the status quo or even play blind like most people, you fight against the wave in your own way. I know this is going to sound ironic, given I admitted that I've fallen out of TF2 a bit, but it astonishes me that there's people parading how much they love this game, but then all of them proceed to fall into this mistake, and then acting self-righteous when you rightfully call them out. I just ask you to continue fighting to make this game better, and I encourage others who read this to also do the same and to KEEP on fighting until substantial change finally comes. TF2 is an amazing game, and it doesn't deserve the treatment it's receiving, from both Valve, and the community.