Nooooo, turns out I did in fact bulldoze a metaphorical tree (sort of...a small one). At 1:21:08, I say Elrond could heal Eärien "perhaps with the aid of his Ring of Power". This was a blunder. So long as Sauron possesses the One Ring, the elves aren't able to use their own rings, as all rings are bound to the One. And it's super frustrating that I said this, because in all other cases I've been really careful to state that the elves don't use their rings in the Second Age, and they only ever wear them on chains around their neck, not upon their finger. Also, it's completely unnecessary. There is so much textual evidence in Lord of the Rings that tells us Rivendell is a place of healing and ennoblement, without having to show Elrond's ring being used. Bill the Pony undergoes a fundamental change after spending time in Rivendell, Elrond skill as a healer is demonstrated when he removes the shard of Morgul blade from Frodo's shoulder, and we're even told about a 'cordial of Imladris' known as Miruvor, which renews the vigour and strength of those who drink it. So I will amend my comment and say instead that Elrond could heal Eärien "perhaps with the aid of Miruvor". My bad. However, this shouldn't affect Galadriel's cleansing of Pelargir at 02:24:28, as we know Galadriel doesn't need a Ring of Power to do this. When she cleanses Dol Guldur in the Third Age, she does so after the One Ring has been destroyed, which means her own ring will have lost its power. So the power Galadriel uses to expel the evil from Dol Guldur and Pelargir comes from her, and not her ring.

@skatemetrix

Жыл бұрын

I knew that was a mistake on your part. But by God, it is so easy to go wrong adapting Tolkien, and so easy to include something which contradicts history, or a rule or a character.

@Freud5709

Жыл бұрын

Actually, that the highest being who said that everything goes according to his plan anyway needs to destroy numenor is some shitty inconstant writing by Tolkien... But a fanboy will find everything perfect from him.

@anastasiosandrianakos2125

Жыл бұрын

Also, i think Elrond didn't have the ring at the time. Gil-Galad gave his ring to Elrond before the battle of the Last Alliance, wasn't he?

@katydidd6321

Жыл бұрын

We need a video about Bill the Pony, please. 😊 Also, don't worry about screw-ups, I make them all the time.

@tolkienuntangled

Жыл бұрын

@@katydidd6321 thanks! Fun fact, I already have a video about Bill the Pony 🙂 kzread.info/dash/bejne/aquHmsaTlcq1gtY.html

Amazon: Do you want to watch 2 hours of "The Rings of Power"? Me: Nah, I don't really feel like it. Rainbow Dave: Do you want to spend three hours listening to my version of the Second Age? Me: I will follow you to the end, to the very fires of Mordor.

@MikeTheD

Жыл бұрын

Lol no joke it's for real. After the first two episodes, that's literally all I'm gonna do. If people like Dave say meh it's ok, maybe I will watch after I wait and see, but time is money. I don't have all day Amazon, already blew it.

@niktonic5379

Жыл бұрын

So true.

@lynnm6413

Жыл бұрын

I went and had to watch it, thinking going in with the most pessimistic of mindsets would spare me from desperation….I failed! I am still distilling down my ire into arguments, but this video helped me clense my soul and rekindle that which I hold so dear in this sprawling world….real people‘s stories and understandable character motivations in a timeless struggle against evil. Thank you for giving us solace with these videos, in my case it was solely needed

@SashaBaych

Жыл бұрын

So true)

@michaeldavies7949

Жыл бұрын

Amazon are deleting reviews like crazy on Rotten tomatoes. It seems only youtube comments section is the only bastion of truth

Imagine if Amazon actually hired this man to lead the writing team, we could have gotten what could potentially be the most epic Tolkien show yet 😭😭😭

@michaeldavies7949

Жыл бұрын

That' s exactly why Amazon didn't hire him. He loves and respects the lore too much. The big corporations want a second trashy GoT to pull in the numbers they don't care about good story, script and acting

@Enerdhil

Жыл бұрын

Not likely, even 🌈 Dave can't write a good story where 50% of all the screen time is devoted to women. That is why half of the Numenorian Army will be comprised of women. 🙄

@darkhighwayman1757

Жыл бұрын

They had Shippey to keep them grounded but they wouldn't listen

@michaeldavies7949

Жыл бұрын

@@darkhighwayman1757 Prof Tom Shippey obviously red pilled them over the inaccuracies in the show. When you grow up with a friend in the same profession you respect each others work as Shippey succeeded at Merton Professor of English Language St John's college Oxford and when a greedy corporate and their accompanying shills go out of their to ruin your respect your predecessor and icons work you would take offense and go out of your way to make that clear. Max respect Prof Shippey

@Enerdhil

Жыл бұрын

@@darkhighwayman1757 Christopher died and two months later Shippey is canned. Any chance of a lore-accurate series died with Christopher.😞

You haven't lost the ability to make short videos, you have mastered the ability to narrate full and rich stories

@tolkienuntangled

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

You're an absolute treasure to the community, Sir. ✌️

@MellowMutts270

Жыл бұрын

Best Tolkien KZreadr by miles!

@tolkienuntangled

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@daudumarov7675

Жыл бұрын

Facts!

I really enjoy the fact that your created a FAR better adaptation on your own than a whole team of writers with billions of dollars backing them could over the course of years.

@concept5631

Жыл бұрын

Its impressive really.

@Frankje01

Жыл бұрын

it really is amazing, I think the show is ok but his adaptation sounds so much better

@alansokelisatruehero8520

Жыл бұрын

and thats why they didn't want anyone like him. pretty sure amazon employed the "white male" we don't want them nor need them approach while looking for writers willing to defecate on tolkien. now if rainbow dave upped his game and became TransRainbow Daveui, throw in some pronouns like xi/xur that are as problematic in practice as it sounds in a still functioning brain that hasn't been stunted by woke politics, then and only then can a non POC or male participate in official Hollywood wokery. The Oscars even made new rules on how many straight white males need to be NOT hired, you can only have a small portion that falls into that shamed and evil subclass of human. When Meritocracy dies, everything collapses. if we are judged not by our character and actions but by unchosen qualities we were born with, how is that a just and fair society? anyone woke just got triggered. fix equity in your own home before you think you can force your fairytale onto others.

@claire2088

Жыл бұрын

the show jsut makes me think of the phrase 'a camel is a horse designed by committee' and this video is about the ghost of the horse that could have existed!! instead of the camel 😭

@GeronimoPlaz

Жыл бұрын

​@@claire2088 wut

THIS. ALL OF THIS. My heart breaks that we won't get this perfect adaptation. I wonder if fanartists could create an animated version?

@fadelsukoco3092

Жыл бұрын

Or failing that, a comic or graphic novel webseries. ANything made by talented and passionate true fans that can be made available to the public to get an adaptation out there that does justice to the world of the Second Age.

@markhill3858

Жыл бұрын

I think if you dont actually SELL it .. no power on earth can stop you :)

@skylanh4319

Жыл бұрын

And get sued for not having the rights?…. That or countless hours for free

@markhill3858

Жыл бұрын

@@skylanh4319 yes well .. thats the point. you dont sell it, they cant sue .. its just fan art if you give it away for free .. and yes this would mean no money lol

@xedra

Жыл бұрын

@@skylanh4319 that's what fanart IS, a creation made out of love for the fandom, not for profit. Fans put countless hours into their creations, big and small, just out of love. An animation or comic made to bring this adaptation to life would be just that, a labor of love.

I'm going to pretend this is the real Rings of Power series that was promised :D

@edpistemic

Жыл бұрын

That's exactly what I'm doing too!

@dalbrecht

Жыл бұрын

Me too 😂

@GeronimoPlaz

Жыл бұрын

Not the Marxist nightmare clown show we got lol

@derschmiddie

Жыл бұрын

@@GeronimoPlaz i wouldn't agree with "marxist" since the means of production (of that series) are not with "the people" but with, well - the most capitalistic super-mega-corporation one could ever imagine. yes there is woke BS in there but that's just a very failed attempt to conceal the taste of corporate greed with anything remotely characterized as "left". that modern "left" has nothing to do with marxism - quite the contrary - and anything with revenge and narcissism by people who fail in being proud so they exel in being entitled victims. - i agree with the "nightmare clown show" though

@alightinthedarkages9494

5 ай бұрын

​@@GeronimoPlazLeftards consider a jar of piss with a crucifix in it "art," as well as a statue of a female law enforcement officer squatting to urinate; lest I forgot, same regarding a functioning toilet labeled, "America". Their scatalogical predilections reveal their juvenile and filthy minds, minds utterly unable to discern objective truth from subjective feelings. Erase the very existence of Amazon's Rings of Power from your mind. It never happened. There is no such thing, same as Disney's Star Wars vomit. Head Canon for the win.

39:45 I love that you stress Isildur's character as intended by Tolkien: that he was a hero. How he saved the fruit if the White Tree in Armenelos speaks of such a humble and brave soul. And, as you've pointed out - that makes his slight corruption by the ring even more heartbreaking. That even he wasn't immune to its influence. That being said, when he died he was actually on the way to Imladris, possibly to ask Elrond for advice as to what to do with the ring. He didn't really intend to keep it

@jessepollard7132

Жыл бұрын

Elrond had already told him to throw it in the volcano. He refused to follow the advice.

@Orovingwen

Жыл бұрын

Isildur wanted the ring to become an heirloom so he knew what to do with it. To be shot by an orc was his saving from corruption

Can we get this man 1 billion dollars already ? Please somebody make this a show

@boycottamazonlotr7023

Жыл бұрын

Let's start a fundraising.

@himynameis3664

Жыл бұрын

I think that's the exact problem with ROP. They gave a billion dollars to basically unproven individuals to work on one of the most beloved fictional universe's of all time. If this man had such a budget to work with I think we would have gotten a real masterpiece

@michelecastellotti9172

Жыл бұрын

@@boycottamazonlotr7023 my guy, he would need 1.000.000 people to donate 1.000 dollars each to reach that number

@boycottamazonlotr7023

Жыл бұрын

@@michelecastellotti9172 I bet a good work can be done by just let's say 1 million. Or even less. All he needs is people who draw comics and voice actors. And a cool graphic novel/cartoon can be done quite well. And I think a lot of people would be ready to do it out of passion and for free.

@michelecastellotti9172

Жыл бұрын

@@boycottamazonlotr7023 i dunno man, for free just out of passion sound like the bullshit that certain game companies say about their overworked developers (looking at you game freak)

Man, I've been thinking and thinking about the idea of Isildur being so pure like Faramir, but then being the first man who is corrupted by the one ring. It would be the irrefutable evidence that no man can resist the ring. And it would have to be shown as equal to the most tragic death of a hero. With the potential to show him struggling under the surface until the ring kills him. Thank you so much for bringing all the lore together. SOOO GOOOD.

@Alberto-wu1mj

Жыл бұрын

As Rainbow Dave says, Isildur did nothing wrong.

@samwisegamgee8318

3 ай бұрын

Isilidur was never corrupted by the ring. Check out the books, he didn’t go to the crack of doom and walk out like in the movies

@12classics39

Күн бұрын

@@samwisegamgee8318but he did refuse to destroy it. And in all honesty, since anyone will inevitably resist destroying the Ring in the end, I don’t think “corruption” is the correct word for what happens to Isildur and, eventually, Frodo. Neither of them ever have evil intentions with the keeping of the Ring, and in different ways, both are saved before the Ring can cause true harm to their morality. “Corruption” is a much more fitting word for what happens to Gollum, because his constant exposure to the Ring is mixed with his own internal, inherent flaws; his instant willingness to commit murder to gain the Ring shows us his true character. He always had a speck of easily-exploitable greed inside him, that neither Isildur nor Frodo ever had. The internal character of a Ring-bearer is essential to the timeline of the Ring’s affect on them. Isildur and Frodo never plotted to commit evil with the Ring even after claiming it, and only much longer exposure to the Ring - like Gollum’s length of exposure - would have warped them into committing evil. Whereas Gollum immediately committed acts of evil after claiming it.

So essentially, Earien survives by Ulmo taking interest in Tuor´s line - again. I like it. Shows that THIS Valar is actually supportive of what is going on in middle-earth

@12classics39

Күн бұрын

Yes. Eärien could be a very very distant cousin of Isildur’s, many generations removed (like Aragorn and Arwen). This is possible because Elros canonically had four different children. Or even if she’s not biologically related to Tuor, she is destined to keep his line alive by being the mother of Isildur’s sons. So that’s likely enough to prompt Ulmo to help her.

You are the brightest star in the sky of Tolkien’s lore and legendarium. I appreciate you, your tenacity, your honesty, your bravery, and your passion. You are one of The Faithful in flesh and blood. Thank you for making these videos.

@tolkienuntangled

Жыл бұрын

How lovely of you to say. Thanks so much!

Loved the (deliberately chosen?) tree analogy contrasting the right and wrong way to pick an adaptive path through Tolkien's writings. Surely, Tolkien's real life love of trees would have heartily approved. Also loved the perspective shift on the opening scene of season 1 to tell the story of Numenor in season 3. Somebody give this man a $billion!

@dominic150

Жыл бұрын

The writers at Amazon desperately need him to come aboard

@alansokelisatruehero8520

Жыл бұрын

​@@dominic150 and thats why they didn't want anyone like him. pretty sure amazon employed the "white male" we don't want them nor need them approach while looking for writers willing to defecate on tolkien. now if rainbow dave upped his game and became TransRainbow Daveui, throw in some pronouns like xi/xur that are as problematic in practice as it sounds in a still functioning brain that hasn't been stunted by woke politics, then and only then can a non POC or male participate in official Hollywood wokery. The Oscars even made new rules limiting how many of those evil white males you can hire, loop hole is they can just share their private sex life and become a privileged class and they still probably be more honest that most liberal progressives SJW's. When Meritocracy dies, everything collapses. why work and pay taxes so the greediest and most self serving democrats don[t have to work and just get gov't money and handouts that cause massive inflation. when we are judged not by our character and actions but by unchosen qualities we were born with, how is that a just and fair society? anyone woke just got triggered. fix equity in your own home before you think you can force your fairytale onto others.

It may be unintended, and only time will tell how the show turns out, but I think this may turn out to be the greatest critique of the Amazon TV-show. To think that with the same amount of source material the end product could have been this, if only the right person was leading the project. However Amazons show turns out, I think it's safe to say based on the material we've seen so far, it won't be as faithful as this is. I'll even go as far as to say I choose this KZread series of an outline of a script over the Rings of Power end product as the preferred adaptation of the Akallabeth. Rainbow Dave is obviously a person who loves the Legendarium and that makes an immense difference. Stay groovy!

@justinah7400

Жыл бұрын

Amazon and Hollywood have no intention of telling Tolkien's stories with Tolkien's characters and Tolkien's messages. They hate what Tolkien represents

@markhill3858

Жыл бұрын

In my case, that time was about 20 minits .. YMMV

@unseenredalert1470

Жыл бұрын

Tolkien understood what legendary stories are made from and Rainbow Dave understands what drove Tolkien to write LotR and the history of Middle-Earth and all her peoples and love and war. Amazon thought that money can buy all. And so they failed to catch the soul of Tolkien's writing.

@monig7870

Жыл бұрын

Wow... just reading some of the comments & I feel, mine will be in the minority! Nevertheless, I am really enjoying the show on ThePrime. In turn, I also very much enjoyed this video as well! [Although, full discloser, I did listen as a bedtime story, so admittedly I did drift off to sleep while listening... but I have every intention on listening two or three times to get through the content. The analysis & breakdown are very well thought out & presented!] I appreciate @Tolkien Untangled for taking the time to create such an enjoyable vid, & I fully intend on checking out the rest of this series of vids as well!

@markhill3858

Жыл бұрын

@@monig7870 its perfectly ok to like a thing :) but might I ask .. did you read the books?

The brilliant point you’re making is that it is 100% possible to stick with the lore and Tolkiens themes while still being entertaining. This is what I’ve been arguing! There is nothing wrong with original storylines I don’t think any of us have a problem with it as long as they respect what IS there! I have been sending people to this channel hardcore for the past few weeks! Keep it up Rainbow Dave you are a treasure!

@joyis9638

Жыл бұрын

It is not a brilliant point but rather the right point! All we Tolkien fans want the films to follow Tolkien's writings as closely as possible, at least in themes and characters.

@MellowMutts270

Жыл бұрын

@@joyis9638 very true.

@cardboardu6019

Жыл бұрын

I'm not sure this is a good tip for the writing of a show...

@meleardil

Жыл бұрын

You do not get it... Look at the other desecrated franchises. The main reason is the ruination of these myth's. The actual agenda is not the inserted politics. The inserted politics is the poison achieving of the main goal: the complete destruction of western culture and western values and moral.

@markhill3858

Жыл бұрын

@@griffineagle7 YES! less preaching more crafting :) if youre gonna mess with it, do NOT break its internal logic :)

This is quickly becoming my favorite channel on all of YT. A two hour video about numenor from Tolkien Untangled? Cancel my appointments, Martha.

@epicemuchilz

Жыл бұрын

I'm sorry to inform you that today is Martha's day off. She's watching Tolkien untangled.

I rather spend two hours watching this video, instead of watching the first 2 episodes of RoP

@MsEnglishtea

Жыл бұрын

Yep! Same😄

@PatrikNilsson1

Жыл бұрын

Same!

@mikevalenzuela3974

Жыл бұрын

Hahahaha, same.

@MarioGarcia-ts5vo

Жыл бұрын

totally agree

@Harpyr1031

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely.

The Elendil, Muriel, and Pharazon debate literally gave me chills! Rainbow Dave, you are truly a Master of Lore!

I uploaded your seasons as audio in my library, and stampled them with an edited cover of "Rings of Power OST" displaying : The Faithfull Version, so i can listen back to them while driving and otherwise. Great job!

@tolkienuntangled

Жыл бұрын

That's awesome!

Your storyline for Eärien made me tear up, what the heck!! So beautiful.

Your interpretation, passion and love for the work of master Tolkien literally brought tears into my eyes. This video (and your previous one) filled my hearth joy and gave me the experience I expected (and didn’t have at all) from the Amazon’s show. Please continue delivering such an epic work. Thank you so so much, Dave.

@unseenredalert1470

Жыл бұрын

From the reviews I've seen of Amazon's adaptating all I get is "that's not how it is", but thanks to Rainbow Dave I can remember it all again as I've read it myself many years ago. I'm not the biggest Tolien fan and I won't be able to point to all the mistakes made by Amazon. Rainbow Dave is driven by the passion for the works of Tolkien, and that shows here in this beautiful narrative of how a show of the Second Age could be made.

@Mamothrept

Жыл бұрын

I didn't cry, but my eyes stung... 🥲

Wow, mate. I follow a lot of Tolkien channels and quite a few of them have tried their own 'how it should've been' after the travesty of ROP, but this is by far the best version. In truth, it's incomparable. There's great focus, and inherent story-logic that makes your effort really compelling. I agree with loads of the other comments that it's tragic you weren't involved in Amazon's woeful attempt, as then it could've been a TV show to rule them all. However, with the recent advances in AI it did occur to me that if you used Midjourney to animate it, (or even deep-fake AI for characters like Elrond and Galadriel who the public recognise from LOTR) and text-to-speech AI to voice it (though I love your narration), you could actually create 5 seasons of this here and I think it would get tens of millions of views in time. It would obviously still be a huge effort, but it could be done. Anyway, even if that never comes to pass, what you've achieved here is incredible so well done mate, it's been a pleasure watching and listening to this so thank you.

I love the idea of Earwen waking up with an Elf attending to her, them having a conversation in (slightly halting on her part) Sindarin, and when he tells her his name is Elrond, she says "You have the same name as one of the sons of that Earendil guy in the legends?" to which he responds "I think of him as 'father' rather than 'that guy in the legends' but ... yes."

Your erudite knowledge of JRRT's intricate legendarium, and skillful "dot-connecting" of the first age with the second was all my imagination needed to project your thoughtful, logical version on the screen of my brain theatre. If it's true that each of five scheduled seasons will consist of eight one-hour episodes, your last two videos have already saved me the hours in an entire day. Outstanding. Thank you for sharing the enthusiasm and insights you've found in Tolkien's body of work. Your generosity will certainly be returned to you a hundredfold.

@tolkienuntangled

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your lovely words!

I am one who has long felt that Numenor’s downfall would be very nearly unadaptable. That being said- what a great idea Rainbow Dave, i came around to it!

The fact you place such importance on linguistic world-building is absolutely beautiful. Honestly, THIS should have been Rings of Power, no doubt about it!

"I'm acutely aware that taking someone else's body of work and "fixing" or "improving" it is infinitely easier than taking a blank page and turning that into a body of work". Hear, hear.

@lynnm6413

Жыл бұрын

A very astute description of sitting in front of a white page not knowing how and where to start from….I was always fascinated with people that excell at storytelling…holding all of this in your mind and making it coherent is completely beyond me…I build and heal, each of us must work with the gifts they received

I wouldn't watch a minute of Amazon's travesty but I've listened to hours of your version. Fine work, my friend. Very fine work.

Please, write this script! 😍 In 10 years some studio will probably give another shot at adapting the second age... As Scar once said, be prepared! LOL

Wow! This is amazing, I can’t wait for Part 3 on Season 4. But take as long as you need to do it PROPERLY, and do not be concerned about the time it takes. I’m very willing to wait for quality content, especially if it’s free.

@carontorliak2760

Жыл бұрын

Screw that, where can I donate? I know more money does not equal speed but still...somebody need to get paid for this content.

I don't know if this would work, but when you mentioned Isildur and Anarion meeting the local men, I had an idea of perhaps a tribe of Haradrim who fled far North from their abhorrent mistreatment at the hands of the King's Men in Harad. In connection with that storyline. When Isildur and Anarion first come across these men, they are captured due to the hatred they have for Numenoreans, but a bit later, the tribe comes under attack from some source like an Orcish Raid or The Vilest of King's Men who are wrathful towards them. Isildur and Anarion manage to free themselves in the chaos, but instead of fleeing, they stay to help the tribesmen fight off the attackers. The leader of the tribe witnesses Isildur or Anarion saving his young son, and comes to understand them as not his enemy. He then swears to aid them and goes with them for a time on their journey. I don't know if that would work, but I think it's certainly indicative of the type of good Haradrim that Tolkien spoke of in some of his writings (Nature of Middle Earth), and fits with his themes. In addition, if Amazon is so dedicated to having an ethnically diverse cast, I think that would be a much better way to do so.

@kamion53

Жыл бұрын

That could be a good entry to a tale of the rise and fall of Haradrim empires, inspired by the legends of great African queens.

@christophersmith8316

Жыл бұрын

It could be simpler than that. Amerindian Tribes would capture children and not having a complex society to imprison or guard them, would adopt them and raise them as children of the tribe. Another way to get involved in a foreign tribe would be to be placed there as hostages in some diplomatic move.

@kamion53

Жыл бұрын

I just found out that Hollywood produced a movie "based" of the Dahomey Amazons called "the Woman King" And is already firing all guns of wokeness on the people who critise the obvious false narative of the part of African history. Maybe Black Panther was the only product where wokeness was used in an acceptable way and probably the lost. the trend today is forcefeeding the audience with wokeness and getting angry when the audience chokes.

@CoolKidMethew

Жыл бұрын

@@kamion53 I do dearly hope that in time, as Africa becomes more and more advanced, and the literacy rate increases, that we get stories and media from people there who love the myths and culture of the continent as Tolkien did with his own lands, as opposed to underwhelming corporate pandering.

@kamion53

Жыл бұрын

@@CoolKidMethew Problem is that what of the rich African culture reaches the West seems to be filtered through either the lense of Afrocentrism ( as reaction on Eurocentrism) or the lense of wokeness. Maybe it's time Africa creates it's own Bollywood like India did. Not that are not made movies now, but it should be at the scale of Hollywood and Bollywood, lets call it Beniwood. And when there is already a Beniwood, it does not get the attention as Bollywood gets in the European cinema's. Mainstream cinema's have their part of Bollywood movies, where an African movie is still an art-home affair.

It’s such a shame they will never do this. Thank YOU, elf-friend!

you are a true J.R.R. Tolkien fan my friend i can FEEL the PASSION and LOVE that you have for this world like many of us, i wish us fans were making the story

May I say, to counteract those other commenters you mentioned, I am very glad you made this before seeing TROP. It prevents your ideas from being influenced by theirs. Also...I watched a 3-hour Shad-rant on Knight's Watch last night in reaction to the first episode. Just the first one. He and Nathan spent so much time pausing it to take notes that they had no time for the second episode. Between their critiques (which were *only* focused on the writing; they barely even touched on the changes made) and my own impressions, (that they are trying to squeeze Galadriel's growth throughout the First Age into the first few months of the last decade of the Second Age...while turning everyone around her into passive idiots to prevent the appearance that she would need to learn anything at all...and also completely mistaking the Elvish relationship with death) I suspect it is actually easier to start this from scratch than to try "fixing" what Amazon made. Edit: I love, love, LOVE your idea about Earien in Imladris! Also, Elrond would probably be just as legendary as Earendil to her, so meeting him in person would probably be a bit overwhelming for her at first. Would she have met elves on her journey up the river? Because if not, Imladris would also be the first Elves she ever meets in her life, despite knowing of them in theory through history and the political divide in Numenor. I also like the tongue-in-cheek cheek parallel of Elrond protecting the future wife of the future king of Gondor and Arnor at Imladris. Even if she isn't strictly a relative. And it could offer, not only character, but also interesting relationship development. How does Isildur react to her change over her time with the Elves, even as it stirs up hard feelings with the King's Men?

@12classics39

Күн бұрын

The Eärien and Elrond storyline actually adds a lot of weight to the canon - because Tolkien actually wrote that Elrond took in Isildur’s wife and newborn youngest son Valandil at Rivendell during the War of the Last Alliance. It is because of Elrond’s care that Valandil and his mother became the last survivors of the House of Isildur after Isildur and his three older sons were slain. Valandil was then raised in Rivendell before claiming the crown of Arnor. So this would make even more sense if Isildur’s wife already had good history with Elrond and knew him as a trusted friend.

There's a really fascinating subversion of the dichotomy of "death" and "the desire for deathlessness". If you gave people the choice between two parties, one representing an acceptance of death, and the other a striving against it, you'd expect people to assume the second one was the "good guys", rather than how they turn out in Númenor.

@12classics39

Күн бұрын

And Elrond making a different choice is ultimately what divides him from the sins of Númenor. Elrond’s rejection of mortal death is his inherent right. He has the blood of not only Elves, but a Maia. By birthright, he is entitled to immortality via Nimloth, Idril, and both of his parents, and embraces it as a part of his roots. Whereas the Númenóreans are far more removed from those roots; their most recent ancestors are mortal, and their forefather rejected his kinship with the immortal folk. So they have no right to reject mortality. But Elrond does.

This is genuinely brilliant. If the folks at Amazon had any sense they should just hire you and put you in charge of the writing team and just reboot the entire thing and start again from scratch using your outline.

So much love and respect for Tolkien… such a long video to indulge in! What a pleasure, what a wonderful journey! Thanks for taking us on this journey!

My god, this show is so good!! I really hope you keep this series going all the way to season 5. I can honestly tell you that I will be listening to this multiple times. Cannot say the same for(at least) season one of RoP.

I am clearly living your adaptation within my imagination. I got shivers from the prologue, and I could definitely listen to you detailing every episode of your work. Maybe like a radio-novel with voice actors? Anyway, yours is the story every lover of Tolkien and his works deserve. Thanks for sharing

@Nateiliand

9 ай бұрын

I love the idea of a radio-novel adaptation ❤❤❤❤

This series you have crafted, even here in abstract, truly, it is a gift.

I love your approach in fleshing out a story. I love the theme of death and immortality. And you are not breaking the lore with the new characters. You just add to it in a non destructive way. So no big changes.

I love your adaptation so much! Please keep them coming, whatever the length!

There is something very special with your story telling ability.

You have kindled my passion of studying Tolkien once again. Thank you. One thing for sure, based on the two episodes of RoP, there is no way anyone at Amazon capable of executing Tolkien's stories to the level of your storytelling. They neither have the love nor the talent to make it happen.

👏👏👏👏👏 I so so soooo wish you were the head writer of the show. But I’m grateful that we selfishly get to keep you for ourselves- your videos are my only way of coping with Amazon’s utter destruction of the most magnificent stories and characters. Sending all the good things, vibes, love, hope, any and all of it your way ❤

@tolkienuntangled

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Very much appreciated.

This would be pretty epic to see on screen. As well as the first 2 seasons video you did, and also I am sure the videos on seasons 4 and 5, I can already see it playing out. No doubt a show like this could spawn ideas for other adaptations of certain stories. I dont think you can go wrong if you follow what Tolkien wrote, business and story wise, but oh well. Cheers for putting out there that there is a way to approach second age source material with good faith, and still get something that works on screen. And honestly, i think it would work big time. Especially with this sort of unorthodox and non-cliche approach, very fitting for source material in my opinion.

I think that Earien's story is truly fascinating. The seastorm of human history and the mild river of the elvish one is so wonderful to see and feel from her perspective. Through that journey she might become a very interesting female character, who can achieve strength and wisdom not by fighting (which is so fashionable for "strong female characters" nowadays), but by being kind and learning from the world around her.

Dude. I am inspired. A few minutes in, and I want to see this version.

You inspired me to draw architecture for Numenor. Before the seafaring conquest age of the Numenoreans, everyone has front yards and most people live in single story stone/post&lintel buildings. The kings live in extravagant circular houses of state. Then the buildings proceed upward until there are many towers throughout the cities. Courtyards are acquired as a design from their conquered people. Wide roads for their horses to tramp. Large windows because no one would attack. The kings’ residences become more perfectly square/rectangular to show how great they are, and how much more efficiently they create more room to display their mostly ill begotten wealth and treasures. The decor changes from flowers, plants and animals to symbols of conquerors (sickle/sword/net) to abstract symbols of life and death. …Now I just have to get on to Gondorian and Arnorian architecture… With the architectural changes, one could pan in and out of scenes throughout Numenor’s history. No narrator or time stamp required.

13:20 That is correct, IMO. The essential thread of Tolkien's story about Numenor, and men in general. Tolkien expounded that the human fear of death was created, or at least magnified by, Morgoth and later, Sauron. As part of the saddest of Tolkien's tales, in the Silmarillion Morgoth chains his captive, Hurin, to the exterior of Thangorodrim. There to witness until eternity (with Morgoth's vision) everything bad happening in Middle Earth, especially to his family. Yet Hurin refuses to be intimidated, even by death. He mocks Morgoth, knowing that death will release him. When Morgoth says that death is emptiness, he mocks him still, accurately saying that Morgoth is utterly ignorant of what death brings to men and what The One intends for the souls of men after death. Probably drawn from Tolkien's religious beliefs, it could have been an underlying theme in the series. But that would require writers/actors with understanding of, and respect for, Tolkien's works and little bit less self-respect.

#1 Tolkien channel! These are amazing.

I especially like your idea about Tar Pharazon- Miriel- Elendil scene

You also have to say Miriel was the first human to order an armor shirt off of Amazon. She saved tons on shipping by being a prime member. Her use of Amazon for getting armor and props knockoffs is famous among the Numenor and even the elves.

@bry8636

Жыл бұрын

Don’t knock it. Amazon has millions of Chinese child laborers lined up making those exact mail shirts to sell to the ‘fans’. We’ll probably able to buy a full on onesy by the time it’s all said and done.

Dave you knew things were going a certain way when news of the scholar was let go/fired.. What I value is integrity. That's why I listen even though in some instances I may not agree. You are one of the best Mellon. Imo it felt like giant expensive fan fiction. At best 5/10. It looks great but there's not heart Dave. Id rather re-watch the original trilogy, hunt for gollum or even born of hope 👍

@MellowMutts270

Жыл бұрын

I agree with this completely. Integrity is so rare these days when these studios adapt beloved properties. Integrity is the very reason I listen and re-listen to this channel. He can do a “what if?” episode and stay faithful to the source so that it still resembles and even fits into the legendarium. That takes talent. This channel is miles above the rest.

You capture the heart of it all Dave! Fantastic!

Been waiting for this the whole week! Thank God it's two hours!!

I never really expected a modern day, multi billion dollar company to capture the heart, soul, and ethos of one man's genius from nearly 100 years ago. The show could be both good and faithful, but I doubt they really want it to be.

@ignacio4159

Жыл бұрын

They didn't even try and it shows, they tried the exact opposite with full intent and malice. That's why they deserve to fail hard and are worthy of all our contempt.

OMG the way you tied Earien's story with the previous characters and Aragorn and the LOTR films was just inspired. I'm glad I found this video, even after months of the disappointment

Thank you sir, THANK YOU for this version, it is a treasure. It could be cool to realize that like in a comic book/graphic novel style, and put it on video - like drawings with voiceovers and music. (Or maybe even to hire a professional animator). I think a lot of people would be willing to do that, because of their love for Tolkien alone, but if we would be able to collect funds for this project it would be even better. If you, in a future, would be able to realize that project, I would put all my time and effort to support it, promote it, and, since I'm a composer, write some soundtrack for it. A Tolkien story realized by tolkien fans.

Bravo! I must say I was especially impressed by the whole Earien bit - it's completely invented that makes PERFECT sense in a Tolkien type story. It's beautiful. Well done. I want to see this show.

The Amazon logo as subtle little devil horns on Pharazon...chef's kiss, my friend.

Omg the Eärien storyline in particular is so brilliant that I’ve adopted it into my headcanon. Tolkien left a lot of blanks to be filled in there, so who says these things didn’t really happen in-universe? You’re a phenomenal writer, Rainbow Dave. Bravo. 👏🏻

I CAN’T WAIT FOR THE NEXT EPISODE! Make it 3 hours please lol

How do you make a 1 billion dollar LOTR show without having Rainbow Dave on board to help out

@joshuarichardson6529

Жыл бұрын

Don't make it in Hollywood.

This is the pure exitement to watch (and listen) your videos, the way you present the plot is utterly amazing. Thank you very much for your work!

If I close my eyes while you speak, I can see an epic story unfolds as you piece it together. Poor Jeff had to pay a billion, and he didn't get it... The sheer respect you handle the professors work, the enthusiasm you put in these videos are astonishing. Thank you.

@tolkienuntangled

Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much!

Sorry this is long af.. I found your channel a month ago and I fell in love with the lore and the incredible way you present it. After watching your ( In the Beginning) Playlist, I subbed. Then I binge watched the Silmarils, Lords of Beleriand, Beren and Luthien and Battle for Beleriand Playlists in order. I never read any of the Tolkien books but, I loved the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I'm now hooked. I want to keep progressing with the stories and ages but, now I only want to experience it through your perspective.. Your knowledge, passion and great storytelling of Tolkien is the best... We're right at the end of the 1st age and I'm dying to continue lol.. I will wait for the next Playlist and I will not watch a different channel for the 2nd age stories. Thanks for all the hard work in bringing all of this together. It's especially great for us people that aren't avid book readers. If you even entertained reading this long comment, I'm sorry for the long rant lol.

@topopoco7560

Жыл бұрын

This is exactly how I feel! ❤️ same story 😂

@tolkienuntangled

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! I'm really glad you enjoy the channel!

@bigswan5142

Жыл бұрын

@@tolkienuntangled You are welcome, you deserve the praise for your efforts. BTW, I watched some of your other playlists but I was getting to many spoilers about the 2nd and 3rd ages lol.. I had to watch some of the Numenor content, after getting a glimpse of it. I'm fascinated by the Lore. It's tough knowing how it ends and now knowing how it all started, with barley any knowledge of the middle era. I will be patient lol. Thanks again✌️

So, here i am. Watching a 2 hour KZreadvideo which is ways better than what amazon did with 1 billion dollar.

I swear, listening to your ideas has been so much more exciting than watching what they put out was. I like that you put this out before you saw what they did because, like you said, it's a lot easier to critique than to create.

This, sir, is absolutely bloody brilliant. I breathlessly await your next season. This needs to be put on screen!

The tree metaphor was fantastic!

You're optimistic, I'll give you that.

Yay for subtitles! If a prospective audience-member is disinclined to read subtitles for Quenya or Sindarin then they shouldn't be watching a show based on Tolkien's works.

Hi there Dave, I just found your channel last week and have been thru every video here. I just love your stuff, the explanations and story lines you give bring everything together so well. Until last week, I never knew the Silmarillion even existed and you explaining it all is awesome! Keep up the great work! I'm looking forward to your next series on the second age and carrying on with the story. BTW I just bought the silmarillion yesterday and currently reading it now. Thanks again for all your hard work.

What material does Amazon have the rights to for The Rings of Power show? Well we know have an answer courtesy of the showrunners J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay in an interview with Vanity Fair. The trade was asking questions fans wanted to know the answers to and this was definitely one of the questions that was endlessly debating among the Tolkien fan base. So what did Amazon buy? “We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit,” Payne says. “And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books.” That takes a huge chunk of lore off the table and has left Tolkien fans wondering how this duo plans to tell a Second Age story without access to those materials. “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to,” McKay says. “As long as we’re painting within those lines and not egregiously contradicting something we don’t have the rights to, there’s a lot of leeway and room to dramatize and tell some of the best stories that [Tolkien] ever came up with.” Tolkien simply never got round to finishing all his stories in his lifetime. The works from The Silmarillion, which are the most complete form of the First and Second Ages themselves, are still incomplete. Christopher Tolkien tried to find the most complete versions for the book. However there were details Tolkien worked on and hadn’t finalized by the time of his death. This means the series will be based on The Appendices at the end of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King. Which, admittedly, does overlap in stories between the two books, but if it is mentioned in The Silmarillion and not in the Appendices, it is off-limits. And this has to do with the rights from the Tolkien Estate and from J.R.R. Tolkien himself. Tolkien had never wanted to sell the rights to his books to the movie companies, but he was forced to eventually for the money in the 1970s to Saul Zaentz, and the animated Rankin and Bass productions of The Hobbit and Ralph Bakshi’s The Lord of the Rings (among a few other small budget films) were made. But those were the only rights that were sold. Even for Peter Jackson, he only had the rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. So, for example, when Radagast the Brown was introduced in Jackson’s Hobbit movies, he had to be very careful with not saying that Tolkien had mentioned there were other wizards in Middle Earth (there are, in fact, a few more mentioned in other works) because he didn’t have the rights to it.

Absolutely love the way you tell the Professor's stories.

What a lesson !!! You are far better that the Amazon show could ever imagine to be ! Well done sir...well done !

That...was...epic! Rainbow Dave you're the showrunner fans deserve. As this video lengthened, I was worried that you might "compress" your version of season 4...but am soo looking forward to your next telling of the RoP.

Ar-Pharazon seems to be modeled after Pompey, by Tolkien. He's charismatic, a good general, smart, and even a little wise (in a villainous way). Pompey also wanted to be king of the world, and made a pretty good start on it. So yeah, my general idea is that Miriel can't decide what side she's on, and she also can't decide if she's been romanced, seduced, or even usurped and raped. She's a bundle of indecision, and she has no clear goals or plans. The opposite of a strong king or queen. Part of her seems sensible and kind, but the rest of her wants somebody to tell her what to do. And when a rich, foolish, beautiful young woman wants that, lots of people will volunteer to push her around. Your version -- that Miriel partially consents, because she is scrambling to get some kind of power back, over her country for its good, and over Ar-Pharazon to keep him from doing worse - gives Miriel a bit more dignity. But of course it also makes Miriel's position with the Faithful a bit more iffy. As time goes on, one might show her starting to get a backbone and helping the Faithful in small ways, even though she is still afraid to make any big moves or decisions. That way, people can feel sad for her when she makes for the Meneltarma too late.

@lausdeo4944

Жыл бұрын

And as to Tolkien's Christian influence, the name seems to be a reference to biblical Pharaoh, who in his pride defies the God of Israel.

@SephTheHuntress

Жыл бұрын

@@lausdeo4944 Or King Nimrod and constructing the tower of Babel

@lausdeo4944

Жыл бұрын

@@SephTheHuntress Correct. Numenor is definitely similar to a tragic babylon.

@12classics39

Күн бұрын

I agree. Also I think it’s likely that Elendil or one of his Faithful offered Míriel a spot on their ships when they were evacuating Númenor, but Míriel refused out of guilt for having failed her people and not done more to stop Pharazôn.

The "Rings of Power" is simply SAURON writing about Arda. Nothing less. To watch this program is to support MELKOR. Not hyperbole. You have a choice. Do not support evil.

Normally I do not comment that much, but your script brought me back! Please keep going!!

Excellent work good sir. The difference between your version and Amazon's is that you respect Tolkien's works.

I have read it somewhere that, "Evil, true evil, has no ego, no pride. It will do anything to achieve its end." I think that Tolkien demonstrated this perfectly with Sauron. He has no compunction with abasing himself to others while continuing to work to achieve his goals, the rulership of the world. Even if one argues that the council exploits his pride when choosing to destroy the ring, I would argue that they are actually taking advantage of an intellectual blind spot as Gandalf does say that he cannot conceive of anyone choosing to destroy the One Ring. In fact, I would argue that no one can actually decide to destroy the ring when it comes down to it, everyone who tries turns away or lays a claim to it It is only by "accident" that the ring ends up in the fire at the end. Therefore, it is not Sauron's pride that he dismisses the idea of his destruction the the destruction of the ring.

One thing I'm not certain about is Galadriel using her elven ring, I thought in the second half of the 2nd Age that Cirdan, Elrond and Galadriel could not use their rings without being controlled by Sauron. It was only after Sauron's defeat that the elven rings could be safely used.

@12classics39

Күн бұрын

Yes, but as pointed out in the pinned comment, Galadriel didn’t necessarily need the Ring to do this. She throws down Dol Guldur by herself after the One Ring’s destruction, and thus the loss of her ring’s power. So she’s able to do stuff like this with her own magic, beyond the ring.

You have such a love for Tolkien that really comes thru and makes me love Tolkien even more! Thank you for your passion!!

I am amazed and humbled by the quality and accuracy of your proposed adaption outline. You have me going back into the books to reread little sections. Thank You! when you are done. WE the community should start an online petition to have the Second age retold using your outline. after all, the LOTR was done several times, as was Dune.

Well, actually, I'm kind of advocating for not changing anything. Imo a perfect adaptation would be an animated audio book 🤣 But I'm aware of how unrealistic that is, so I'm willing to settle on not contradicting anything directly.

@omerfidan892

Жыл бұрын

thats what exactly said to some haters on a forum.

@classicpaws6355

Жыл бұрын

@@omerfidan892 Unfortunately we're already way past that point... Very disappointing.

I'm half way into this video and... WHY ARE YOU NOT THE WRITER OF THE AMAZON SERIES???? This is so fun and interesting and it feels like Tolkiens world! None of these feelings i get from the amazon series. Ughhhh

Elendil did grow up alongside Miriel and Pharazon. There is a couple of references in the Unfinished Tales to Pharazon having been a friend of Elendil's father, Amandil and of Elendil in his youth IIRC. There is also an alternative version of Miriel's story which says that she married Pharazon willingly after breaking off her engagement with Elendil's uncle.

Just wow. I am amazed by the story you came up with, how well it plays together with what Tolkien wrote, and I absolutely love the Earien story! Also, the ending gave me chills. How you talked about Sauron smiling as he gets the exact thing he wanted ... I knew that this was the case but still I was absolutely frightened. This is my head canon of the second Age now and my true series, thank you a lot for doing this!

I think this format was a creative solution to talk about this show. The theme for this show certainly will be about wasted opportunity for us, and these videos are about what could've and should've been. We saw it long ago. The only question was whether we could lower our unrealistic expectations enough and objectively call it a good show. If it had workable Tolkien themes, then hey that's a pretty nice deal for all these seasons, where they also could work on improvement. I guess that improvement COULD still happen, in this season and beyond, yet based upon what I saw in the first 2 episodes....ouch. I haven't been about all the drama surrounding this show, but honestly it does make me mad about the wasted opportunity.

You could have Eärien in your three characters be a little younger, and a history/mythology buff and a bit of a pain that way before the trip so Isildur thinks of her as a bit of an annoyance before she is swept away. She would then know the history of these ruins she passes as she goes upstream and be interested in Elrond's tales of the ultimate ancestor. And she could reattach Elrond to his family of Numenorians and provide a reason for him to find the men and return her to them. And she will have grown up in the process enough to change how Isildur sees her when they meet again.

I am so ready for the video you release after you’ve seen the first 2 episodes

A like before I watch it tonight when I come back home. Based on the first video in these series, it won't be retracted. Welcome back, Dave. :)

@marcusgaius

Жыл бұрын

As expected, no retraction needed. :D Damn you, Dave! Now I can only long for what we could've had. :'(

These series of videos should have been mandatory viewing for all of the show runners and script writers of the show before the project ever started. Instead they chose to go a completely different route....sad knowing what could've been in comparison to what they delivered.

Tremendous! I would definitely watch this!

Your voice is so soothing; it sounds like you're smiling almost the entire time. Love all of your videos.

Another excellent video essay Rainbow Dave. Well done sir, thank you! ( P.S. *congrats on your channel growth* 🤘)

@tolkienuntangled

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Much appreciated.

Funny how one fan can create a more compelling retelling of this story than a billion dollar production.

@jaccat4336

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! That’s why Peter Jackson’s original trilogy was good. He was a true fan of the stories and there weren’t a bunch of executives butting in (cough Hobbit cough). Unfortunately ROP is what happens when you give a billion dollars to adapt a story they don’t even like and feel they need to improve.