Some thoughts: US and German helmets have leather chin straps, not elasticated ones so it is quite possible to break someone's neck by seizing the helmet from behind and pulling hard (commandos and HG were taught this). Wearing the strap over the front of the rim makes it easier to fit the chinstrap under the chin quickly; having it behind the head requires two hands to remove the helmet, replace it correctly with the strap under the chin. Try running or ducking with the chinstrap behind your head and see how long your helmet stays on! WW1 (Brodie pattern) helmets had a deliberately weak point in the fixing so that any blast would separate the helmet shell from the liner to avoid injury to the wearer.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Excellent points well made, thank you.

@Arcmor1

4 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore I have been told by vets (commandos) they wore it behind the head when on watch just encase anyone came up behind them to pull the helmet back. Agree with you certainly that for combat it has to be under the chin, its just not going to work otherwise.

@polarjet1833

3 жыл бұрын

Although it may seem like German soldiers put their chin straps over the fronts of their helmets this rarely ever happened in the German Army as it was highly looked down upon to do so as for the Germans i know it was regulation to have chin strap down but that doesn’t mean some soldiers didn’t do it

As a former British soldier who had to wear a '44 patten helmet, almost 40 years after the WWII, no one wore a chinstrap if you could avoid it, it is uncomfortable, but, if you had to run you had to wear the chinstrap or lose the helmet.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the input! Was this with the black oilcloth liner or the later green type with foam padding?

@phantom12321800

5 жыл бұрын

I definitely have photos of guys in combat zones with it loose behind the head or on the rim just like he mentions but the idea of it being worn for some sort of safety reason definitely seems like a reenactorism and to me the slack way I've seen it on the back of the head says to me it's a comfort thing in low action times (guarding crossroads, waiting around) not when you're ready to run off anywhere.

@muwuny

4 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore I have a MkV liner and the headband portion of the liner is tight enough that I don't need to wear the chinstrap for most things really.

In one of the British World War 2 military sources on swimming, as quoted in Adam Culling's "Fighting Fit" page 188 it interestingly states that unless near the enemy the helmet should not be worn while swimming and should be attached to the shoulder strap. If it IS worn, it is to be worn across the forehead or behind the head as there is risk the pressure of water pushing the helmet off the back of the head and causing the chin strap to choke the swimmer. I came across this as I am working on a Commando impression and I wanted to be able to swim and do the physical fitness events/training they did as well as the material aspects.

I think in WW1 this would make sense as I think they where either leather or non stretchy canvas chin strap so it might be possible but in WW2 it had the elastic strap so it wouldn’t matter

i've heard the old "the shockwave of the blast would break your neck" line quite a few times during my time reenacting, and seen a few helmets tumble off heads because people believe it. now I will say that i do wear the strap behind the head (tightened up nice and snug on the knap of the neck to help keep the helmet on) this is due mostly because the impression i do is Pioneer Sergeant and as such i have a fairly bushy beard, so i simply wear the strap back for comfort, to stop it pulling out my beard hair.

@andrewgood4230

3 жыл бұрын

i spoke to an actual veteran about this and he told me that yes, the shockwave could break your neck, but it was just as likely your intestines would fly out of your arse and your arms and legs would fall off.

Finally... thank you for the video !

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Most welcome, thank you for commenting!

My old British steel helmet had a cotton strap with springs enclosed in cotton on either side to give it its stretch. My comments are directly related to our Mk 5 helmets, we were supposed to wear them with chinstrap under our chins, it was uncomfortable so sometimes we would pull them over the front and just balance the helmet on our heads when pottering about and we had to wear them (often we just carried them and wore our berets). Sometimes though we would just wear our helmet with the strap down and for comfort behind our heads (the straps had to be tightened under our chin to hold the heavy wobbling mass of steel, so could not always easily be slipped over the front - particularly when we used the hessian/net/scrim layers). It also gave the impression at a bit of distance to a casual onlooker like the SSM that we were wearing our helmets properly. The main reason to us though was just comfort, easy to put on and take off when not requiring it to be held properly. As for a blast breaking the neck if the strap was on properly, seems a dodgy claim. While firing the Charlie G once my steel helmet was blown off my head (I had the chin strap on) and landed behind me.

Please forgive me if this has already been covered in one of your earlier videos Simon but, do you have an reference material on differentiating between British MK1 and Mk2 helmets and their variations? Thanks in advance and as always, great content and really knowledgeable.

My personal experience actually have been in the US army and actually having a mk2 helmet (obviously out side of the military) is that, now I cant speak on the behave of the british army but most of the gear worm is to the soldiers comfort but when cameras are around we had to look and act a certain way. One thing I noticed is the mk2 helmet slides in front of your face too easily even with the chinstrap under your chin. Back around the head and tightened to like a nape strap type fit is what I found to be the most comfortable and the most stable actually. I could be upside down as well as sharp and quick jolts and hard rocking as a soldier would experience in combat, the helmet stays on just fine. also you have to remember photographs back then in combat arent like today where you can have a gopro. Photographers couldnt have cared less about how everyone looked, they wanted to document what was going while trying to stay alive.

Very interesting thanks for uploading!!

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

I'm glad to hear you found it interesting!

I haven't been in the hobby of modern reenactment for long (around 2 years) and don't know about the British in ww2 but in nearly every photo of the aif in kokoda (what i reenact) they always have the chin strap behind the head or possibly removed and i myself have found little to no problems with wearing the chinstrap behind the head. but still great video love your stuff.

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

Many thanks for the input, I'd be interested in seeing photos if you'd be happy to share them.

I agree in my opinion the chinstrap could break anyway so I doubt it would snap your neck.

I tend to agree with you. However there are a few photographs taken in Burma where one or two British or Indian soldiers are not wearing there helmet chin straps in combat, I would have thought due to the hot climate.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Indeed I've seen a few photos myself, though not many in combat which makes those you mention particularly interesting unless perhaps they were staged. I can see the argument from a comfort point of view certainly but not sure about the bomb/shell blast argument.

I always found that if i had the chintrap under my chin and i look forwards it falls down, even when tightened up. But with the chinstrap behind my head and tightened up i was able to move around without it falling infront of my eyes or moving at all, and found it was a snugger fit with the strap behind. Its why a lot of modern helmets have straps that go from behind the head to the chintrap, to stop it from falling infront of your eyes.

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

Indeed so regarding modern helmets. I must say this isn't an issue I've encountered with the Mk II myself, I'll have to experiment.

I learned something today

Simoon you are great with your helmet this also wear the Greek army since hte 1960s

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

I've seen in photos, what was it replaced with in Greek service?

@johnraptis8953

5 жыл бұрын

in 1952 with M1 helmet only the National Guard were Mk2

I have a Canadian Brodie helmet Mk.II from 1942. Unfortunately without a case, so without an interior. Would like to finish him off again. Where do you get the inner workings, maybe someone can help me.

Im in agreement but I have heard (probably another reenactorism) that the chinstrap occasionally was worn behind to stop someone from pushing your helmet backwards off your head and using it to choke you in a fight but as you say if you didn't have the strap on the chin the helmet would just fall off so what would be the point in wearing it? The other thing I have heard and have experience of is from a ww1 point of view. When I and friends were spending time in a trench you tend spend a lot of time looking down or on the level (looking up leaves you open to more potential injuries from shrapnel etc and your often ducking and cooking say). Now if you have your chin strap on your chin, when you look forward the helmet falls off easily, however when you have the strap behind and adjusted to the shortest length it kind of hooks up against the back of your neck and helps to keep the helmet on when you look down / forward..... We found it much better on the back in this situation.... Thoughts?

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Interesting, thanks Paul, I hadn't heard of the idea of the chin strap being actively used to choke a man in a fight. Regarding having the helmet adjusted for observing in a trench it's not something I've come across but it makes sense but then again this is in a static situation, 'going over the top' I'd imagine you'd want the chin strap adjusted back under the chin for stability's sake.

Would you happen know how to attach a chinstrap onto a Mk. II helmet? I have a few without any chinstraps and have been thinking of adding some but I'm just unsure how.

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

The oblong brass rings on the end of the chin strap simply clip into the bales on the helmet.

Were do you get one I been looking for one

Several illustrations and photos of the Norwegian Brigade in Scotland show soldiers wearing their helmets with the chinstrap behind their head, which shows that it did spread to the foreign armies in Britain during WW2. But i always thaught it was done for comforts sake, as whenever i wear Brodie helmets it sits much better on my head wearing the strap like that.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

As said elsewhere the comfort argument makes a lot of sense, out of action, though it's even better to have it looped up on the rim from that point of view.

I use my Brodie MK2 helmet for farm stuff. Don't want something to fall on my head. Especially during Fall with acorns and walnuts.

Hi, May i ask you a question regarding an MKII. Last days i've got (i think) a british MKII helmet but I don't understand the inside markings. I only can see Ro & Co BV into the helmet, the inside liner has no markings at all.... is this normal and correct or do I miss something....?

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

There should, in theory, be a size marked somewhere inside the liner too...

@mvdp

4 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore Have checked the liner again carefully but still can't see any markings and don't know were to look either...Looks like an old black liner tied with black cord, have some pictures but can't add them here...

I think you'll find this was primarily common Royal Navy practice, not for catching by blast although this was more of a risk in confined areas of a ship but if the person wearing it was forced to Abandon Ship or was blown overboard so that the Helmet wouldn't break the Sailors neck or weigh him down on hitting the water.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Obviously in this specific case I was referring to the British Army but I have heard this story regarding the RN before and it certainly does seem to be quite a common practice in photos of RN gun crews. That said it's not universal by any means there are also plenty of photos of chaps wearing the helmet with the chin strap under the chin.

@nicholasdavies213

5 жыл бұрын

Yes that's true, in my Grandfathers Ships case it was laid down in ships orders to not wear it just throwing it in the discussion pot as a possibility of drifting ashore to Army Practice? just a thought.

Mike B did a similar video about this. I agree with him, that if a bomb blast is so strong that it would break your neck because of wearing the chinstrap you would be rather blown to pieces. The West German Army's later steel helmets hat a quick release strap. So in case you would fall over and the helmet would catch itself on to vegetation or whatever, the strap wouldn't strangle you to death. That is the only reasonable thing in my view.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for commenting, I missed his video, I'll have to take a look.

He’s the english history secrets

I have seen footage (WW11) where a number of British Soldiers are running, into combat it seems and one of them loses his Helmet and he stoops to pick it up...quickly!!....I can't even begin to remember the name of the footage but I'm sure it was one of the Pathe news clips on youtube.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't be at all surprised, the line of the Mk I is not the best design from that point of view! Even with the chin strap it tends to move around on the head. As said in the video the 'soup bowl' shape essentially perpetuated in the Mk II really is rather top heavy on the head.

Hello, I am an Argentine collector, you have a great collection, I want to ask you if in the South Atlantic War, in 1982, the British Army (the Royal Marines) used the MK 6 helmet. Thank you.

@user-bh4rx8mf8g

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Jorge. The British Army and Marines used the Mk 4 helmet.

@Neddyfram

3 жыл бұрын

Helmets weren’t that commonly worn from what I know, it was the mk5 helmet (which in reality is a mk4 helmet with a mk5 liner) which was worn in the period.

Hi Just got one for Christmas the helmet that is 👍

@RiflemanMoore

3 жыл бұрын

Excellent!

Does the same apply to ww1 with the leather chinstrap?

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

I would imagine so, the same problem of the helmet falling off would be omnipresent if trying to run without the chin strap to secure it.

Heard US troops didn't wear chinstrap down on M1 helmet for same reason, about bomb blast breaking one's neck. Also heard during landings was unfastened as going into water over your head, water would fill it up, pull it towards the surface, and choke the wearer. My father, a Korean era Marine, told me this, so he heard this stuff first hand. Said that wrong: jumping into water over one's head with helmet on , air would be trapped inside helmet, pulling it up towards surface, chinstrap then choking the individual. Never tried it so not sure if it's true.....

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info! With the M1 I can see it being a lot more practical as the design has a considerably lower centre of gravity when worn, it's something which came up when the idea of this in British practice was being discussed.

@harryb8945

5 жыл бұрын

The m1 chin strap was definitely often strapped round the back of the helmet or even tucked in to the helmet net. But this was probably more for comfort then anything else. Also the liner of the m1 has an adjustable sweat band which can hold the helmet in place by itself.

Do you have any plans to participate in the Dunkirk 2020 march?

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Possibly but I do not think I will be able to dedicate the time along with all my other commitments, unfortunately.

I've heard the same thing but in WW1 to stop soldiers from having their neck snapped if they got buried under rubble or earth and people tried to pull them out. No idea if it's true or not.

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

New one on my I have to say.

As a mortarman in an (Australian) Citizen Military Force (CMF) battalion in the early 60s we were ordered to wear our helmet chin straps behind our heads in case someone was too slow to duck during firing and copped the muzzle blast under the helmet rim. I don't remember the straps being elasticised in any way (I think they were canvas and the muzzle blast from a 3" mortar could have been nasty! I should add that we only wore tin hats during actual field firing. This is probably because our regulars were changing to US style helmets and they didn't want us cut lunch commandos to look too much like Dad's Army!

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Very interesting, thanks for the information! I assume at this time you would still have been wearing the Mk II helmet in contrast to the Australian Army in the US M1?

@oldigger7060

5 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore As a reservist, I only wore the old style helmet during range firing. These were provided at the range and handed back at the conclusion of the exercise. I was not actually issued with any steel helmet at all and either wore a beret on parades (I was in a Scottish unit descended from the old Victorian Scottish Regt and linked to the Gordons) and a "Giggle Hat" in the bush.

What’s the difference between mk1 bef helmets vs mk2 helmets and what paint did u use for your helmet

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

The Mk I is a Great War era helmet, leather and oilcloth liner, leather chinstrap, the Mk II is as you see it here.

@Ks-zv6js

4 жыл бұрын

Rifleman Moore thanks I got confused becouse people sell 1939/38 mk2 helmets as mk1

Where can I get a good mk ii brodie helmet online??

@RiflemanMoore

3 жыл бұрын

eBay.

I have seen wartime photos of Australians wearing the helmet like that in the pacific campaign

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Indeed, a few people have mentioned Australian troops doing it. Were the photos taken of men ready for combat or resting? I've seen the odd photo of British troops wearing it in this manner when out of the line, brewing up, etc. but not in combat, which was the real point of the video.

@AIFReenacter

5 жыл бұрын

Rifleman Moore the photographs were a bit of both, I have seen them after battle, before battle and even one during battle in the Borneo campaign

I have to wonder if some of this chinstrap fear came from tales of guys being buried in WWI after an artillery shell collapsed their dugout, only for their necks to be broken when being yanked out by the feet and the (at the time) leather chinstrap not letting go.

Would you say brit helmets were cooler in the desert than German as not covering the ears and sticking out a bit?

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

I believe ventilation of the Stahlhelm was actually pretty good but I'm not aware of a direct comparison I'm afraid.

@mickwarnie8707

Жыл бұрын

One thing is they could hear. Not like the german piss pot.

also if you read and watch the movie of Audie murphy "to hell and back" he mentiones this to a new guy, the new guy asks "how do you keep it on your head" murphy replies "mostly you dont" and when it comes to things done in action you really cant argue with audie murphy

@RiflemanMoore

3 жыл бұрын

Were I talking about the US Army that may be so.

@drno4837

3 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore yes well my father was in the British army and he told me the same thing, while demonstrating with his actual brodie helmet ,and combat is combat no matter what army you are in, not like reenacting at all

@drno4837

3 жыл бұрын

www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=M7JA%2fW1%2b&id=C9F624E171BEC43748C97FD6C484383B748CCDAE&thid=OIP.M7JA_W1-sD5ubLmo4qZZSQHaGN&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fqph.fs.quoracdn.net%2fmain-qimg-33b240fd6d7eb03e6e6cb9a8e2a65949&exph=473&expw=564&q=british+army+ww2+images&simid=608033701303289266&ck=E3B6A2E2E803316FC1D28F8A982B20E1&selectedIndex=52&qpvt=british+army+ww2+images&FORM=IRPRST&ajaxhist=0 took me 5 seconds to find this pic of what it looks like

@drno4837

3 жыл бұрын

www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=C4g1gt2v&id=C582F6644DAACB3390C1E0BA5D0ED1E254C5913B&thid=OIP.C4g1gt2vMAs0_BVN7D3kywHaFH&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ww2wrecks.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2017%2f05%2f1.jpg&exph=830&expw=1200&q=british+army+in+action+ww2+images&simid=608034066402837440&ck=34BC6ADE125C7DD3D93B595952032A06&selectedIndex=95&FORM=IRPRST&ajaxhist=0 however in this there seems to be an even mix of under the chin behind the head, most of the pictures i have looked at makes it seem it was more of an early war thing, not using the chin strap

@TonyBelas

2 жыл бұрын

Yet I had a friend attached to the modem audie Murphy unit (they go by his name in celibration) in the early 80's just before they went away from the classic us helmet and he specifically said that in that unit it was a chargeable offence to have the chinstrap undone. At least in that unit

When was the mk2 introduced?

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

In 1938.

@marcrogersjones532

5 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore excellent ... thanks for the speedy reply ... first class as allways sir

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

No worries!

How much gsr gas masks do u hav in the back

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

There are several standard Mk IVs and Vs and a Special T Mic.

@Ks-zv6js

5 жыл бұрын

Wow I have 2 mk5 4 mk4s and had one special t mic I sold the t mic

I have seen footage in the movie they shall not grow old with British troops wearing it with the strap hanging in the back.

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Indeed but that's footage from The Great War with men wearing the Mk I helmet. This video concerns The Second World War and the MK II helmet.

Mk2 helmets don’t have asbestos do they?

@RiflemanMoore

3 жыл бұрын

No, they don't.

@jamesharrison9336

3 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore didn’t think so 👍 Just checking

Hi funny thing about the chin strap I asked my grandfather ex Royal marine ww2. back in 1983 the same question He said (always under the chin or you would be put on a charge only bloody yanks did it) Andy

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

Interesting, thanks for that Andy!

I want a Brodie helmet so bad

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

They are easily available online and at shows.

@babyinuyasha

4 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore they cost a lot

@fegelsoldat2092

2 жыл бұрын

@@babyinuyasha Yes pretty expensive. I will buy a brodie in christmas

Sounds like an Americanism to me. I think some photos of Aussies doing it MAY exist but it's been a long time since I've looked in that much detail.

@mickwarnie8707

Жыл бұрын

Aussies did not wear it much full stop.

@johnsteele2986

Жыл бұрын

@@mickwarnie8707 in the western desert it was fairly common but by mid 43 or so they virtually disappeared.

THIS HELMET HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY FAVORITE, AND THE WW2 GERMAN TOO. LIKE THESE HELMETS SO MUCH . THIS CONSTRUCTION WORKER .GAVE ME THE ALUMINUM FULL BRIM . I PAINTED IT OD, SO WHEN WE PLAYED ARMY. I WORE MINE. HATE THE TRUTLE. UGLY

What company made that helmet e.g bmb and is that restored

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

Off the top of my head I can't remember but I will have a look and get back to you.

@Ks-zv6js

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

The shell was made by HBH and is dated 1939.

@Ks-zv6js

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you I’m planning on getting a Briggs motor bodies helmet

Chinstraps being worn correctly in photographs isn't necessarily evidence that they weren't ever worn over the brim of the helmet- even if it was common practice to wear it over the brim I expect that anyone who did so while a cameraman was around would swiftly get a rocket from the sarnt major. Chinstraps on any helmet are uncomfortable, but they're necessary. The idea that anyone could go about the business of soldiering, particularly combat, without the chinstrap fitted correctly is ludicrous. Drawing on my own experience, having worn a helmet with the chinstrap either undone or tucked up, it swiftly becomes more annoying as you have to pay so much attention to the balance of the helmet on your head- you can't lean down to pick anything up, look upwards at the sky, a building or a truck without it falling off, and you can't even lean or reach sideways without having to steady it with a hand or brace your neck to balance it correctly. Far more effort than it's worth.

@RiflemanMoore

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly so.

O

@RiflemanMoore

5 жыл бұрын

P

It’s a Brodie helmet

@RiflemanMoore

3 жыл бұрын

It's a Helmet, Steel, Mk II.

@ianpowell4748

3 жыл бұрын

@@RiflemanMoore k sorry just it looks like it’s a Brodie helmet