Let's face it. As a Bitcoin user, one has the feeling that the political structures of our world have somehow reached their limits. The excesses of the fiat system are just one indication of this. Fiat-feudalism-wars-disasters in an endless continuous loop. Internet (free information), Bitcoin (free money) and now the idea of network states ... this could be another milestone in the cultural development of humanity. Thanks Till for the video. I look forward to learning more about the topic. Also for the future of my children, who are not really growing up in a hopeful time.

@williamengels8216

Жыл бұрын

I think we should be optimistic, for the reasons you mentioned. However, if we are to learn anything from past revolutions, such as the Reformation or the 60s/70s Counterculture, we should learn to ANTICIPATE THE STRENGTH AND DESPERATION OF REACTIVE POWERS. The Federal Reserve, the most powerful economic institution in the world, will not roll over and let Bitcoin replace USD. The US government will not allow network states to flourish. The education system will not legitimize learning modalities authenticated through the blockchain, etc. If there's going to be a believable plan or vision of the future that involves these innovations, I need to see the part where the opposition is understood and contained.

I hope you are enjoying the video! I must say that I went from "this is ridiculous" to "wow this is actually incredible, chances of success are still low, but they are not zero" during the research. Think it through for yourself and give the book a chance, you can find the link in the video description, it's accessible for free without any registration etc. Cheers!

@davide.2349

Жыл бұрын

Hey man, your videos are great, no doubt you are a deep thinker with complex topics. This video could have been a series of videos (e.g. the 10 points of Network state) that could keep the focus to more audience. Keep in mind that the average intel. is lower than one would think and the general Joe loses focus easily. Grüße aus Berlin.

@zinu8081

Жыл бұрын

I wish more people said what you did

Imagine a network state with the premise: Collaboration = Good

A country is defined really at the end by having the monopoly of violence, meaning the police and army, meaning power, that’s the only way of preserving a “nation” or “state”. Money can also be a substitute of brute force if you think in for example Mónaco or Switzerland, but in reality “tiny” countrys have the biggest army’s the world, Israel, Singapur, Taiwan, Switzerland, Cyprus…

@SWiTFSHoW

Жыл бұрын

So we’ll meed a big private army to survive, not really gonna use it, but is kinda like nuclear weapons I guess

I'm still not convinced of its prudence. Anything digital can be possible but if some physical material things are involved, central authorities definitely have control. This network state is possible for places with no army and no violence

Top notch. How much Information, depth and ideas can Till put in 10 mins? - YES

Thanks so much Till for sharing these fascinating ideas! I could really sense your excitement for this concept throughout the video and it kind of infected me. Please keep us updated about general news and information about network states, especially in case of major movements in such an area!

I love seeing the world finally catch up to this idea. I tried to do this 7 years ago but I think it was too early but the world seems more ready for the idea now

I really LOVE this concept. The future will be interesting.

I find this concept beyond exciting and immensely promising, but there's one major potential issue that popped into my mind with this idea quite quickly. Sooner or later, that "moral innovation" would turn into "moral imposition or moral dominance" of certain groups/networks. Judging by the value & symbolic wars that are going on in the media landscape today, this has the potential to cause an even deeper division, lack of communication, and understanding, at best. And to think about what kind of groups and dangerous ideas would form network states, it would be like those conspiracy Facebook groups, but on a much greater and more dangerous scale. Vast echo chambers legitimized on the global stage.

@tillmusshoff

Жыл бұрын

I‘m not sure that this is the consequence. Echo chambers - sure, but I don‘t see how they influence other societies in a bad way. Remember that the idea is to have a very easy opt-out. You are not aligned with the moral innovation of the group any more? Leave or fork off the network state into your new version with people following you who agree with your point of view. This would necessarily mean that most network states will remain quite small, but I don‘t think that‘s a bad thing necessarily.

@anatomyotset

Жыл бұрын

@@tillmusshoff No, that's not a bad thing at all; actually, any of them becoming too massive would mean too much power and then abuse of that power (if history has taught us anything). Easy opt-out is a must, of course, but no one is forcing people to remain in certain political parties; certainly they are not forced to be faithful in their public discourse to every value that's associated with the party, but they still remain there and consume only the politically-aligned media, etc., and look what kind of division that creates. I fear further isolation of groups can make this problem even worse. Don't get me wrong, I think the concept is wonderful, and I would start my own network state today, but I just think the idea that those things would remain decentralized and technical, like cryptocurrencies, is idealistic and even unrealistic. Societies are not technical entities like blockchain. They are governed by collective and individual emotions, and morality is essentially an emotion, or at least intimately intertwined with emotions, and there lies vast room for exploitation and demagogy.

afreakingmazing!!!!!!!!!this is a beginning. I feel could actually take off I have to digest this but yeah wow! so refreshing and promising. thank you !

Thank you Till, I learned quite a lot in this video. Sure, servitization is a trend in nearly every industry, why not for societies? Let's see where Bitcoin will take us in the next years and decades :)

@tillmusshoff

Жыл бұрын

Yes! First impulse is „countries are different“, but the more I thought about the Network State concept the more I went from sceptical to optimistic.

Some questions I have would be how a network state would coincide with the rules of regulations within a country. If a network state was formed, you would still be required to pay your taxes plus whatever new taxes this new network state would impose. Additionally, for countries in less developed areas like the middle east where there is much less freedom, how would the network state be able to exist in those environments?

@eventhorizon8670

Жыл бұрын

I've read some other comments and one theme of the nation state has been a sense of authority and police or military force to uphold the law. One would similarly expect a similar case for the network state. Maybe some sort of privately funded military and police?

I believe Anarcho capitalism is a mindset not a political ideology. If 51% of people believed anyone can do what they want so long as they follow the non aggression principle, we would have a utopia.

@Tim Musshoff it appears that you also have read the sovereign individual? Glad to have discovered your channel and I wish you a happy new year!

Very interesting! Really glad I found your channel

My moral innovation: high-quality meat as the basis for healthy, independent humans. I liked the example about sugar a lot

Just a half-step beyond the modern corporation.

We need to colonize space so we have room to start new countries!

reminds me of "Freie Privatstädte" or free private cities, same core concept, but that there is a specific place at which all this happens instead of being entirely digital (so it didn't sound like a new concept to me, just called differently). Although this is one was inspired by the free city in the HRE.

Fantastic video. I never knew there was a name for what I was dreaming of helping into being.

A state should be able to protect it's citizens against external forces and aggression. That can be done only with territory.

Let’s start with a virtual village and focus on utilizing Crypto and AI to structure its foundations of operations to provide each other with best education, medical information and to build a renaissance future the likes that have not yet been imagined.

Excellent idea! Wow I love it 👍🏼

I think the country (state) is aiming at the same new thing in the far future like already existing networks. What I mean is that the country will slowly change as it gets undermined by the internet because the latter will fulfil more and more features (community, currency, hierarchies, etc.). There is no need for the internet to aim at being or creating a state. It's like saying a BMW will be an electric horse. But: 1) it sounds fascinating because it shows how powerful a network can be or how powerless traditional countries could be in the future facing unresistable networks. 2) I might be wrong and a network becoming a state would indeed be something long-term innovative compared to a sole network without being a state. So to clarify: what would the perks be? The choice of being member of a country and the choice of opting out of a native country? More effective tax policies?

@tillmusshoff

Жыл бұрын

You are not wrong, however as you say this can only ever happen *very slowly* because of bureaucratic reasons. This is the unfortunate fate of everything. Startups disrupt the status quo until they become just as slow. The network state concept is interesting because it's very focused on one single moral innovation it wants to improve on and works bottom-up instead of top-down. You can check out the podcast episode of Lex Friedman x Balaji where Lex makes the same point as you very early in the discussion. I don't agree with the BMW becomes an electric horse analogy in this context. Regarding 1) Yes! 2) One clear perk is following affinity. Say you are a vegan and believe in the reasons that make people go vegan. Wouldn't you like a state that is vegan only and help expand the moral premise of animal products = bad? You can not only put your money where your mouth is, you can put yourself where your mouth is and build a country with like minded people and to hopefully educate others on the subject as well. It's not really possible for an existing country to do that. You need an opt-in and out.

@mi9t142

Жыл бұрын

@@tillmusshoff @Till Musshoff Thanks, it seems I kind of missed the moral innovation bottom-top part. That's really interesting and it would restore the decreasing identification (esp. in the west or Europe) with the country. It would be also possible to opt in to serveral societies according to your moral motivations. I will definitely check the podcast episode!

No, it’s not a new question. If people would understand the basis for money, we’d have far less problems

Very interesting topic that may get laughed at but certainly not from a Bitcoiner's perspective. It's crazy to think about how the future will turn out to be. We really are born in interesting and society changing times

@tillmusshoff

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely!

what a great idea!!!

Why did you use Romania in the thumbnail even tho it is not even mentioned in the video? It is relevant to the discussion of nationality but you did not even mention it... The thumbnail is misleading

Money is energy…

@jasonkoroma4323

2 ай бұрын

As well as your attention

This seems a lot like Anarcho-capitalism, it is very probably what we need

Have you read "Snow Chrash"? If no, you really should. There network states are already explored. 😆

@tillmusshoff

Жыл бұрын

It‘s been on my to-read list forever 😂 There are a lot of influences here and Snow Crash is definitely one of them.

What about paying tax in the real nation state?

I love this book

Is this the guy from Gotham Chess?

@tillmusshoff

Жыл бұрын

No 😄

This is like fantasy football for nations.

@tillmusshoff

Жыл бұрын

Haha that comparison is hilarious, it doesn't hold true on multiple layers but made me laugh 😁

It is not that hard, it is like what Osho tried to do in Oregon in the 80s, bougth a huge piece of land, got everyone to sign as city council resident and elect a new mayor. Everything went bad, but it was a great example. We could do the same, buy land in a establish country, a lot of people get the passport and elect a new president that changes everything.

Second life actually has higher GDP than some countries, I pay 10% merchant tax there 😂

IM IN

@6little6fang6

Жыл бұрын

We shouldn't use bitcoin tho

Where is your army? Animals are born with teeth, claws, and venom. Or, how will ‘laws’ be enforced?

You ignore reality that countries have physically enforced borders, ditto banks so who will physically protect the servers? One moral requirement possibility: real world identity verification, publicly.

What's up with that clickbait thumbnail?

@tillmusshoff

Жыл бұрын

What‘s up with it? Looks sweet I think, do you think it’s misdirecting? If so in what way?

Btw there are recognized sovereign members of the UN which don't have any territory: the Holy See and the Maltese Order. Thus the territory part is not mandatory

Thank you. while here i'm hoping we become an united earth nation to stand a chance against the impending alien onslaught.

@harrywinner7403

Жыл бұрын

One nation worldwide? Made up of federal states or provinces? How is that different from what we have now?

Bist du deutscher? 😂 Man merkts am (kleinen) Akzent.

@tillmusshoff

Жыл бұрын

Ja :)

money is a favor. neighbor saves your dog, you say "thanks, i owe you ONE" crypto keeps track of all favors in all directions.

Welp, Awesome I Was Thinking Of How I Will Make The Artic Or Antarctica Into An Atlantic Style Nation This Is Better More Better No More Wars That Kill We Will Settle In COD😋 Winner Takes All

The Free Land of Satoshi! :)

No idea why you included this Indian guy in your video. This isn’t a new idea at all, and he surely didn’t come up with it. Read some old school classic cyberpunk science fiction. Videos like these should explore ideas, not pump Furu’s.

@tillmusshoff

Жыл бұрын

Balaji was certainly influenced by said fiction, doesn‘t deny this and even mentions it all the time. He still wrote 400+ pages about the concept. I can obviously only scratch the surface here and don‘t really get your criticism. I did explore the idea.

@JoeHeine

Жыл бұрын

@@tillmusshoff I wrote something similar over 10 years ago for my final paper at University. How "networks would overtake nations" in relevence, and it was stale back then. I'm saying you are pumping some FURU who is standing on a platform of ideas that quite frankly aren't new, and aren't his. Otherwise good video.

Moral innovation: No animal slavery = only vegan food.

@tillmusshoff

Жыл бұрын

While I am not vegan, this example was also a really good and obvious one to me, when Balaji spoke about the Keto Network State.

@bredlify3079

Жыл бұрын

@@tillmusshoff Glad that you like the example! Can I ask why you are not vegan/mostly vegan?

@metalmonkey128

Жыл бұрын

I actually had the same thought when the aspect of "moral innovation" was mentioned on the first place! 'Moral innovation" in general seems like a really powerful facette of such an "enhanced community".

@dogecoinmax2862

Жыл бұрын

@@bredlify3079 nobody cares steak is good

@anatomyotset

Жыл бұрын

See, this is one of the first major potential issues that popped into my mind with this idea. It's exciting to think about, but sooner or later, that "moral innovation" would turn into "moral imposition or moral dominance" of certain groups/networks. While I will always respect your right to live your life the way you want and have your own views/reasons, and morals, the idea of "only vegan food" is appalling to me. My first longer venture into a healthy diet years ago had a heavy focus on plants, and I can now say I have never felt better, healthier, or happier than I do now when I'm animal-based. I would like to think that "only vegan food" network state and "animal-based" network state can coexist peacefully, but judging by the symbolic and value wars we are witnessing in media today, this would cause an even deeper division, lack of communication and understanding, at best. Not to mention what other more profound differences would lead to.

No one cares what the un thinks