So in naval architecture one designs the ship around the role it is to play within the fleet, and then try to give it the best weapons for that role. The doctrine of the fleet is predicated on the strategic situation of the power that builds it. For the Romulans in the 2350s and early 2360s, the D'Deridex was the product of a race with Starfleet, and lesser extent the Klingons, to build the first next generation capital ship. For the Romulans this is of vital importance. During the 23rd Century the Romulans were a distant third in the Great Power race. The spent the 60 years after the Tomed Incident catching up to the Federation in tech and they largely succeeded. Despite that, the Romulans are still very much smaller than the Federation and even Klingons. For them it is important to bluff the other two powers into thinking they are stronger than they appear. The D'Deridex is the outcome of this. It is big, intimidating and has amazing Alpha Strike capability. It is designed to inspire fear, and to quickly destroy enemy ships from ambush. That said, it suffers from those policy choices. It is too large for what it offers in terms of useable space, it is slow. And because it is an ambush predator it is not designed to brawl it out over a long battle and didn't have enough 360 degree firepower. Some consider it a glass cannon. But it mostly worked in its job. However, the appearance of the Dominion changed that. The Warbirds were dangerously vulnerable to faster ships, and it was also a poor choice to slug it out with heavily armored Dominion capital ships during long battles. Warbirds were even vulnerable to attacks by squadrons of the more maneuverable Galor Class Cruisers attacking the Warbird's many well-known blindspots. It was determined that a smaller, faster and more agile ship with nearly as much firepower would be more useful, or at least to compliment the D'Deridex. Thus the 'Valdore/Mogai/Norexan Class' was born. Whereas the D'Deridex was a battleship, the Valdore was a nimble battlecruiser. While the Romulan ambush doctrine meant none of their ships would be great brawlers, at least the Valdore was fast, nimble, only 50% the size of the D'Deridex while maintaining 75% of its firepower. The Valdore was also better protected. While the Valdore only began to come off the slips in the last days of the War, it was still an important ship and became a mainstay of their fleet, complimenting the D'Deridex, and ideal for long-range missions.

@ondank

15 күн бұрын

The other thing I would add is that big ships take lots of resources and time to build. And when you just got a crap tonne of your ships blown up you are going to prioritise getting as many good ships built, as quickly as possible and do exactly what you need them to functionally do, instead of taking your time to build a smaller number of better ships. Decent ships defending your territory and attacking the enemy are much more useful then exceptional ships stuck in drydock when the Jem Hadar arrive. Its very similar to the design philosophy that birthed the defiant

@Renserin

8 күн бұрын

At the time it was created, the D'deridex was created in an era when the Federation and the Klingon Empire were building big. So the Romulans tried to create the biggest, nastiest, most intimidating ship they could create. The problem was they succeeded a little too well. By putting all their eggs in one, giant basket, they lost the ability to adapt their fleet to changing times and new situations. So when the Dominon War started, they were caught flat footed, because the D'deridex didn't fare well, against the Jem'Hadar, because the latter used smaller, more maneuverable ships, that packed an outsized punch and attacked in swarms.

My theory on why two Romulan ships are fighting, the old guard in the D’deridex is the Romulan Star Empire whilst the Valdour is the Free Romulan State and that’s their new world in view.

something to remember: Shinzon needed Picard alive, so he was firing at the Enterprise to disable. the 2 Valdores, however, got the full brunt of its disruptors

I think the Valdore vs DDeridex is much like Sovereign vs Galaxy. The sovereign is longer yes, but in terms of overall volume, the Galaxy is about 2.5x the size. Bigger isn't always better. I suspect the warbird is a more jack of all trades vessel, able to cover roles such as troop or cargo transport, take part in scientific, exploration, recon missions, basically anything the empire requires. The Valdore appears to be a more pure warship. Aside from being newer, you could probably think of it as squeezing the D'deridex tactical systems into as small a platform as possible, which of course gives you a faster and more maneuverable ship, but also reduces the area the shield grid needs to cover so the shields will be stronger.

I've always loved the D'deridex class. That design just *exudes* power, and is instantly menacing. The second made its first appearance in TNG, you automatically knew that this hulking ship spelled trouble for the Enterprise. And when it was the Valdore that came to back up the E in Nemesis, I was bummed we didn't get to see the D'deridex class on the big screen.

@Belisaur

Ай бұрын

Its a pity its an absolute dies more than a red shirt ever after that appearance. Constantly getting destroyed by any and everything , never catches a break

I think that your victory was partially because, they pulled a Retrobadger cloak and you restrained your cloaking instinct.

That was Seriously Amazing Commander Sela vs Commander Donatra my favourite 2 Romulans

The only thing that the Valdore showed me was the gap between the Enterprise E and the Romulans newest ships .

@toryunaminosaki1022

23 күн бұрын

@@Dr.Westside to be fair, the 2 Valdores got done a bit dirty, the Scimitar opened fire on them at full power, while it was trying to disable the Enterprise to capture Picard. It's doubtful even the E would have withstood a full assault from the Scimitar if it was out for blood from the beginning

If I had a pound for every time retro said "maybe they learned a lot of lessons in the dominion war" I'd be living very comfortably

The D'Deridex is awesome, it's just such a big lumbering thing. The Valdore is a much sleeker, modern design. I love it almost as much as Commander 'definitely a woman' Donatra

Dude your videos just keep getting better and better! Honestly, I had no idea about the fact that the Enterprise E Bridge was redress… I miss the old days where they used to make videos showing like the magic behind Star Trek. But then again, they actually might be doing that with the new trek, but I don’t wanna sound like a Fudd but I just cannot get behind Kurtzman‘s trek.

Having recently re-watched nemesis I had already forgotten that battle with the 2 valdore ships, having now just watched it on KZread, I still hardly remember it, but wow what a load of crap, those ships were destroyed with just a couple of shots, and for some reason, the enterprise decided to stop attacking whilst shinzon was dealing with the 2nd Romulan ship. No wonder I can't ever remember much of that movie.

The D'deridex class is a much nicer looking ship, it should have been used in Nemesis.

Retro Badger, Senator Vreenak would like to speak to you about the recent destruction of Romulan ships.

@MisterMarin

Ай бұрын

He came back from the dead as a Force ghost. 👻

@jamriki

Ай бұрын

@@MisterMarin Somehow, Vreenak returned.

@MisterMarin

Ай бұрын

@@jamriki Plot twist: He wasn't aboard the ship Garak blew up. He faked (hee hee 😁) his own death because he secretly worked for Section 31. Dun dun duuuuuunnn!

@user-ec5bo8tx4n

Ай бұрын

@@MisterMarin Those sneaky Romulans!!! A commenter once wrote that Romulans seemed like paper tigers because they were always losing. I replied, "That's exactly what they want you to think." Meanwhile, their unique technology advances, their empire grows, and they have spies in all alien headquarters. Those sneaky Romulans!!!

Was legit surprised by the result. Like you, I thought the D'deridex would completely overpower the Valdore, but the advanced weaponry and much better manoeuvrability won it for them. I actually like the look of the Valdore: It looks mean, like a proper warship. The D'deridex looks like a small space station, with a couple of warp nacelles bolted on. Moves like it too! Although a D'deridex accompanied by, two Valdores would be pretty scary.

Very fun to watch, thank you for trying this combo! Would have loved to see the D'Deridex models updated for Nemesis, it's one of the most unique ship designs Star Trek has ever produced.

IMHO they have different roles. The Valdore is all firepower all the time, while the D'Deridex is also capable of carrying massive amounts of troops and cargo.

I think of it as the battleship vs battlecruiser analysis with the D’deridex being an older class of battleship & the Valdore being a more modern battlecruiser that is able to match in firepower & exceed it in speed at the cost of durability. The D’deridex was probably vulnerable to Jem’Hadar bug ship kamikaze runs & this exposed a need within the fleet to have a more manoeuvrable ship that could intercept these runs & screen the more ponderous ships.

Enterprise E and the Defiant vs a Dominion battleship would be of interest if you haven't done it already.

@jasonwestwood7092

Ай бұрын

The Enterprise E could defeat 1 Dominion Battleship at once the Defiant would be toast. 😂

I think when you took control of the DD, that was more realistic of how the two would fair against each other. Whether the Valdore is new or not, like you said in the video, DD is larger than that damage is spread out.

Well I like the valdor class. But that d class definitely looks more intimidating.

I didn't know those were Valdor ships in Nemesis. I knew they were very maneuverable warships, but I didn't know they were the next generation of Romulan ships. And yes, I also thought they were weak. At least Dina Meyer lived... watching her die in Starship Troopers was bad enough 😆. As for the battle. Yes, I believe that the Valor is a great ship. I would call it the Defiant class of the Romulans.

I really like the Valdor class but I just realized it’s basically a new version of the bird of prey.

The entire reason for the design of the Valdor was the Dominion War. The Romulans got their arses kicked because that big hulking D'deridex class was this massive target, really difficult to miss! That ships main weapon was intimidating the enemy. But when the enemy wasn't scared, the Romulans died!

Assuming it hasn't already been done and that your computer could handle the chaos, I'd love to see a squadron of Defiants take on a Borg Cube. :)

Very cool. Yeah, the Valdore looked wispy and thin compared to previous Romulan ships. I know there is very little info on The Tamarian race but what if they were enemies what if their language was not deciphered in time. Could we see a fight between The vessel we see in "DARMOK" and a federation vessel your choice.???

The Valdore looks exactly like an ice boat without the sail.

my problem with this version of the ship is, it doesnt have enough weapons, and that whilst the model is better than the old one, it still isnt accurate. like in the film we see torpedos from the nose and disrupotors fire from 3 spots on each wing totaling 6 foreward (most likely heavy) disruptor cannons, for those curious the disruptors are fired, on the end of each wing on the pods, at the intersection of the seconday and primary wings and (this model doesnt have it) the tiny pods on either side of the pod behind the head attached to the seconday wing structure. if i had a guess it most likely also had 4 rear facing disruptors (located on the rear of the wing pods and probably ontop of the pods on the dorsal side(top of the ship) facing the rear and atleast 1 torpedo tube rear facing. for a probable armament of: - foreward torpedo launcher - 6 foreward heavy disruptor cannons, - rearward torpedo launcher - 4 rear heavy disruptors which feels about right (headcannon) later refits/other weapons that werent used due to a lack of sensor lock; could include, a few disruptor beam emmiters, personally i would place them, one on each side of the head, one dorsal, one ventral and one on each wing end. for total of 6 emmiters for full coverage to deal with faster opponents such as the jemhadar bug ship. for more likely total of: - 10 heavy disruptor cannons - 2 torpedo tubes - 6 disruptor beam emmitters thanks for listening to my ted talk if you read this far

valdore's shield isnt strong as i thought or is stronger im confused on that but the power of the weapons is great but limited rate wise i think... But the D'Deridex isnt out of the fight with a great commander! Ty for the video and LLAP!

the valdore is my current ship in STO, and man, I am absolutely a fan(although I would also definitely pass it up for some other ships I have my eye on) and yeah, it shouldn't be a contest at all

Feels about right🖖 I watched this the other night, better than i remember actually 🖖 Have you done a valdore vs sovy? Now I'm curious 😂🖖

The D'deridex wasn't suited to fighting Jem'hadar fighters, let alone most small vessels that it _wasn't_ chasing. For what it's worth, the Romulan copy-pasta fleet bore more a resemblance to the Valdore/Norexan than the D'deridex - flat, with a lesser profile.

The D,deridex is in my top 3 ships 1st Galaxy Class 2nd D'deridex 3rd world Raiser 😊.......great as all ways RB 😊

Interesting battle and my prediction was the same as yours. If you haven't done this already recreate the Nemesis battle; a Sovereign and 2 Valdores vs the Scimitar. If the Scimitar wins add the D'deridex.

I suspect the Valdore was meant to be a rough equivalent to the Sovereign Class. More efficient and more powerful than the previous generation. Both the Feds and Romulans adapting to new threats. 2 things to think about, Shinzon obviously had some insider knowledge in how to take down the class quick, and he was using advanced battle tactics because he was an elite captain and Dominion war vet. Also insinuates that it could have taken out the Enterprise E quickly too if it wasn't trying to just disable and capture Picard. Plus your own simulations back it up because it took 4 Sovereigns to beat a Scimitar even without the perfect cloak which seems to be fairly accurate given what we saw on screen. The Dominion dreadnought was said to be 3x Galaxy class so not that outrageous. I don't think the Valdore class was ever weak, elite captain/tactics, insider knowledge (a runabout took out a dominion bug ship with insider knowledge) plus the overpowered dreadnought just showed it at its maximum capabilities. The D'deridex class was seemingly built more for intimidation but it hits way below its weight class.

If Romulans use an artificial black hole for a warp core, why do they explode in a big fireball instead of imploding and crushing itself.

I won't get into the politics of this, but I wanted to offer a suggestion: the older Romulan warbird was too crew intensive. By upgrading their tech and reducing the size, the Romulans reduced their crew sizes significantly. Besides, the older warbirds, were too slow and less maneuverable in combat.

Far fewer crew, more power in a smaller footprint. Lessons from the Dominion war and all the losses.

well the warbird is basically a cloaking Tal'shiar base that can do long term missions into enemy space... so you would expect they are better equipped... Just imagine a undetected warbird in a systrem having operatives wrecking havoc politically on a planet

😨oh my Admiral.. I do like the Valdore, and in the movie, looked new and sleek, but yes the D'deridex is big and powerful.. gosh, I saw the episode, where the Klingons surround the Romulans and decloaked.. the look on forgot his name, Romulan Commander's face of nice one Picard.. I think even Picard wanted to laugh lol. In Nemesis , gosh yes Scimitar was full power launched against the Romulan ships, and ouch yes gosh.. the '''Full stop, FIRE!'' and gosh.. the nacelle hit the Ent E, but, the sheilds in other shows show bubble like but in this movie like ones with Kirk , sheilds close to the hull. I found that hmm bizarre just saying. but I like the Valore.. ''Valdore - Detailed Meaning. Your name Valdore makes you a natural entertainer with artistic, versatile, and creative qualities.''😳🤣 okey dokey.. lol well the Remans must have laughed eeh.. also, the name without the E, is a city in Quebec Canada.. hmm.. love the battle Admiral..!😊🖖

Quick point. In Nemesis, Shinzon was holding back on the Enterprise E because he wanted Jean Luc alive. He had no such qualms when firing upon the Valdore warbirds given his reaction to Romulans in the film!

The D'deridex is such a fan favorite and I have always thought it was incredibly ugly. Strange how opinions go, I think the Valdor looks way better.

Yup the Valdore was the clear winner. It's possible that the the Romulans learned a lot lessons from the Dominion War. Wasn't the D'deridex still around after the Dominion War?

Romulans and Klingons do NOT use Phasers on their ships. They use Disruptors. The Romulans use Plasma-based Disruptors well Klingons used standard Disruptors. The Established Star Trek Canon actually states this. In fact it’s even stated in Star Trek: Nemesis when the Scimitar losses them. The Viceroy actually says: “Disruptors aren’t functional sir”. This is because Romulans ONLY use Disruptors for their energy weapons.

Both Valdore werent getting played with by the Scimitar. SHinzon wanted to take Picard alive, the romulan warships were not loyal to his new regime and as such had to go

I feel that the Valdore (correct me if im wrong) had more disruptors in Nemesis So I feel the Valdore is very under armed I think it needs at least 2 or 4 more at least

I like to think of the Valdore as a new class of war ship. It is smaller, more maneuverable, with updated shields and weapons, easier to build, repair and maintain over the course of the space frame's lifetime. All in all, a much better ship than the lumbering warbird.

I love the Valdore.

5:03 Why would it have phasers? That's a Federation technology. 7:06 I honestly don't see why a Valdore/Mogai/Nor-word would be more powerful than a D'deridex-class that was built at the same time. The former would serve as a destroyer whereas the latter would be a battleship/troop carrier. You wouldn't want to lose out on the latter given that it can carry a legion so naturally you'd want to put the best weapons on it.

@jasonwestwood7092

Ай бұрын

The Veldore class was designed to match the Klingon Neigh'var class and is a much new design first launched in late 2378 as opposed the the D'deridex class B type entering service in the early 2360s.

@jasonwestwood7092

Ай бұрын

The B type advanced D'deridex class launched in 2371 rated at 1500 on the strength index the Veldore 1930 the Neigh'var 1960.

What the hell is wrong with the torpedos? Going not straight but in curves? WHAT??????

You enjoyed this one waaay too much. 😉

@RetroBadgerGaming

Ай бұрын

🤪🖖

Did u cut and paste the battle to reduce the time of the video? The Valdor moved a bit fast!

To me the Valdore/Mogai/Norexan shouldn't be considered a replacement or successor to the D'deridex but rather a complimentary ship that was built to fill a void that the Imperial Romulan Navy discovered it had during the Dominion war. While the D'deridex serves as the Empire's Battleship/Flagship the Valdore/Mogai/Norexan serves as a good mid-sized cruiser that's less expensive to build and operate (in terms of material and manpower), yet still does 60-85% of what the D'deridex is capable of. I got the impression it was more like the Romulan equivalent to the Intrepid or Akira classes.

@RetroBadgerGaming

29 күн бұрын

Based on its size that makes a lot more sense. It never felt right to be an outright replacement. Imagine if we’d had 2 D’deridex warbirds in Star Trek Nemesis!

K'vort vs Valdore?

Jolan'tru

If two of your Empire's powerful front-line ships can hang in a fight for only minutes with complete surprise on their side and a Sovereign class starship backing them up, you need a better design. Particularly since the opponent was built by a bunch of slaves and somehow is more powerful than every other military ship or even task-force in the quadrant. The Valdore are useless glass cannons, and the Scimitar is a god-mode super ship created by squealing fanboys going "give it more guns!"

The valdore class just doesn’t look very unique. It’s quite generic space ship while the dderidex is very unique.

@RetroBadgerGaming

29 күн бұрын

I’d have to agree with you there. It’s a bit meh. I can’t see it as a proper replacement to the D’deridex. It doesn’t strike fear at all 🖖

never liked the D'deridex. wasted space, wasted resources

your 3D is broken or the physics in this simulation are completely dumb. there are stars in front of the spaceships or the plante?! and that just within the first 30 seconds! sorry, but i stop watching this nonsens.