Its not really fair to compare Vi and Galadriel. After all, Fortiche is a multi billion dollar industry titan adapting a character from one of the most famous and popular series ever made, with decades of lore to use, and Amazon is a small, indie company adapting a character from a fairly recent property without a lot of lore or source material to draw from. Oh snap, did I get that backwards?

@LordHollow

Жыл бұрын

Perfect post above.

@appended1

Жыл бұрын

Lol to be fair, massive amounts of money is usually toxic to art.

@ACCESSZERO1

Жыл бұрын

😄

@ggu0rck955

Жыл бұрын

Fortiche was backed by Riot Games and Arcane cost 60 to 80 million euros though

@jhaydee7203

Жыл бұрын

Had me at the first half ngl.

Oh my word, it's NOT even a contest!! I'm shocked by how similar their arcs are as you pointed out. I would pay for Vi to whale into Not-Galadriel while the real Galadriel watches with satisfaction.

@hannamouse1

Жыл бұрын

That would be a sight to see.

@grimm516

Жыл бұрын

Lol that's really funny 😁. Vi can crush my head... Galadriel can jump of mount doom

@user-fp3in2kf3b

Жыл бұрын

@@hannamouse1 You pass one major Vi flaw - her hate for Piltover It so strong that for Vi feel OK with putting Powder in risk(she knew Powder was not good enough and what would happend if enforcers catch her), just to make some mess in Piltover. THAT was the reason why she tell Powder not to tell Vander about cristals even if this would put Powder in danger(even after Vander warn her to remove all evidence from this robbery)

@maayu8108

Жыл бұрын

There is no arc in Galadriel RoP story, she didn't change at all through out a serie.

@EWStark-mv2cm

Жыл бұрын

YES!

I just want to point out, most of the comparisons you made were between an adult Galadriel and a teenage Vi. Just goes to show how much more mature the writing is for Vi, even as a teenage character.

@ipromisethatserendipityisa9656

Жыл бұрын

It's not just an adult Galadriel, it's 3000+ years old Galadriel. One would think that all those years would have given Galadriel maturity and patience and wisdom, but nope.

@queenberuthiel5469

Жыл бұрын

@@ipromisethatserendipityisa9656 Correction: it's Guyladriel, from the Golden Goose house lol Galadriel, daughter of Finarfin and a Noldo princess isn't like that biatch..

@kittenburger_prime

Жыл бұрын

@@ipromisethatserendipityisa9656 3000+ years of fighting is a background that is easily used to set up someone to be a warrior. Or maybe 2700 years of becoming mature but having to deal with evil and loss for the first time and becoming devastated and hardened by the loss.

@kittenburger_prime

Жыл бұрын

“She doesn’t have compassion”? Thats the point. That’s called having a character. You don’t like a character? That’s a “you” problem not a writing flaw. You folks putting these cartoons on a pedestal is hilarious.

@ferro1398

Жыл бұрын

@@kittenburger_prime your opinions have to be troll lol there's just no way it's not

I think it’s funny that rings of power has become a case study on what not to do when writing a TV show

@elijahnoble8011

Жыл бұрын

You have some very solid points

@gizel4376

Жыл бұрын

while Arcane is a reference on what to do

@Tunabledenn

Жыл бұрын

@@gizel4376 that’s some very solid points.

I don't mind that Galadriel starts out as selfish and callous. The problem is that she doesn't grow from that at all

@hannamouse1

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely - I'd have no problems with her character if she had anything resembling a character arc, but she's a cow in episode 1, and a cow in episode 8.

@gizel4376

Жыл бұрын

@@hannamouse1 to be fair it take something to shake a character into a devellopment, if we compare her to heimerdinger, heimerdinger started his devellopment when he got fired from the council and if there's an event like this for Galadriel, i would say maybe it's what happen in the last episode, or maybe it's something that is yet to come, the show is very slow paced compare to arcane, so we have to wait a little longer before calling a lack of devellopment.

@kenjutsukata1o1

Жыл бұрын

@@gizel4376 the problem is that Heimerdinger was likeable before his character arc, so it's okay for it to be delayed. If a character *requires* a character arc to be likeable, you can't afford to push it off to the end of the season, let alone a future season. If the audience isn't rooting for the protagonist by the end of the first season, you've utterly failed. *Arcane spoilers below* Fortiche was able to get the audience to cry over the death of the villain of all people in only nine episodes, yet RoP can't get us to even like the *protagonist* by the end of their first season? A meandering first season where a lot of nothing happened? Let's face it, the people currently in charge of RoP aren't capable of pulling off a good follow-up.

@gizel4376

Жыл бұрын

@@kenjutsukata1o1 the first mistake of this analysis is to compare with the masterpiece that is arcane, you could take very good show and make them look like shit in comparison, Arcane is way above the standard for good show. Ring of power was fine i didn't expect that much in the first place, i understand the deception if you expected something as good as arcane or as the lord of the ring. Maybe the MC culture is an issue, Galadriel devellopement can wait because this is a show just like Arcane, where there's many character to root for, i personally wasn't rooting for Vi, i think there was at least 4 character more interesting and heimer isn't one of them, i think heimer was annoying but you need character like this for a good story, of course since Arcane is a masterpiece, heimer character is way better than Galadriel, but for an average show, Galadriel is fine.

@kenjutsukata1o1

Жыл бұрын

@@gizel4376 Why on earth should we not expect excellence from a production based on The Lord of the Rings? The books were revolutionary and so were the films, so I don't think holding a show based on the IP to the same standard as a show based on a free to play video game designed to sell cosmetic skins is a big ask. So no, the problem isn't comparing the show to a masterpiece, the problem is accepting mediocrity from something that has a legacy of greatness. Arcane's greatness isn't impossible to replicate, it's simply an example of how using skilled writers based on their merit will produce a superior experience to hiring writers based on... whatever the hell the writers of RoP were hired based on. Nepotism, maybe? Regardless of the reason, if the fools who wrote the series (and the fools who hired them) punch above their weight, then it's absolutely okay to lambaste them and their show. The Lord of the Rings has a prestigious pedigree, and they should be ashamed of having put out anything less than fantastic.

I feel like the reason Galadriel is so emotionally disconnected from what's happening around her is that Amazon's writers are actively putting in effort to avoid the stereotype of women being too emotional... except y'know, when your family dies most people would cry regardless of gender. That's normal. This mindset of defying stereotypes seeps into every aspect of her character until... oops! We've created toxic masculinity. I'm serious. Think about what traits get lambasted as "toxic masculinity" and it's pretty apparent that Galadriel has most of them. She's out of touch with her emotions, she mostly uses violence to solve problems, she pushes ahead alone, she neglects the well-being of her team, etc. On the other hand, Vi has some of these traits, but not all of them, and the ones she does have are treated as flaws. The worst part is we more often get a Galadriel than a Vi. Writers seem very concerned with giving women good role models, which really should be a good thing, but they frequently seem to believe that the key to writing these characters is to inject them with toxic traits. Captain Marvel comes to mind, but I don't watch too many movies so I'm sure you could think of more. They even have the gall to deflect all critics as sexist. Sure, some of them are, but for God's sake you keep writing the same damn character! The fact is that Vi is able to go against gender norms and virtually everyone loves Vi. There's no excuse anymore. Stop making these bad shows and give us more of arcane.

@themysticwarriorgal9465

Жыл бұрын

How is captain marvel toxic? Isn't her whole arc her overcoming years of programing and mind control?

@victormagoco9752

Жыл бұрын

@@themysticwarriorgal9465 well, her personality certainly fits: repressed emotions(which is weird, because everyone is always accusing her of being too emotional in the movie), isn’t a team player(which is very bad for a soldier, which she is both as a human and as an alien, as well as being framed as a good thing, since her team is lying to her), she’s arrogant, she’s violent(breaking the hand of a guy telling you to smile isn’t empowering, it’s psychotic) and her arc is about realizing she doesn’t need an arc, because she’s already perfect and everyone else is holding her back. I could understand if she had been brainwashed into being like that, but even with her memory back I don’t really see a change in her personality

@caffineandshiny

Жыл бұрын

I just find it interesting that they made the decision to have such a stoic character in a franchise known for having characters who display a full range of emotion both male and female. This is the man who wrote about Aragorn weeping for Boromir when he died.

@apan990

Жыл бұрын

​@@caffineandshiny for real, it pisses me off how incompetent and downright braindead the writers are. all they had to do is crtl c-v tolkeins work in a show, maybe change some things up like PJ had to in his movies, and they wouldve made a very successful show. but nah they just had to do their own degenerate sht and completely ruin the show from both a lore perspective and a show perspective. i mean like does anyone ACTUALLY like 'galadriel'??? i cannot fathom that anyone other than a complete psychopath would lol.

@Arkayjiya

Жыл бұрын

@@victormagoco9752 "(which is weird, because everyone is always accusing her of being too emotional in the movie)" It's not weird, it's the point. The fact that she's pretty emotionless and the fact that her "handlers" react excessively at the slightest showing of emotion are for the same reason: They're trying to keep her that way. "because she’s already perfect and everyone else is holding her back" Nothing in the movie indicates that she's perfect. It does indicate that she doesn't have to be something that she isn't and yes her society as a large is holding her back. Which is accurate to how it is in real life too.

13:25 "This cannot be excused but my god can it be understood." THANK YOU!!! This is one point that I am constantly trying to get across to other Arcane reviewers. It was utterly unavoidable for Vi, given her characterization to that point in time. But go back and look at Powders reaction again - the HIT isn't what hurt her. It was Vi grabbing her by the face and saying "Milo was right - you ARE a Jinx!" that is what set Powder off - and in Episode 6 Vi confirms that she knows that's the problem. "I shouldn't have said that." The punch was bad, but from the way Powder reacts it isn't the first time that Vi has punished Powder with a punch. Or at least it's not something Powder thinks is out of character for Vi. Which doesn't excuse the punch, but the actual damage is done by words and eventual abandonment. As for Galadriel, I haven't bothered to watch that show yet. One of the good things about being a Fan and not a Content Creator is that I can skip things that I don't think I'm going to enjoy watching, and literally nothing I've seen from Rings of Power makes me think I'd enjoy anything in it. At all. So no RoP for me. What little I have seen of the show fits right in with the interpretation here - overall a failure of a character at nearly every level. She might LOOK the part of Galadriel, sorta, but that might be the only level where the character succeeds to any degree.

@MALICEM12

Жыл бұрын

agreed, the "enemy" music video also shows more of this as it depicts Powder's relationship with Vi being bitter sweet. she loves her but Vi was shown to have anger issues and to put her hands on Powder. but I applaud Riot for being brave enough to depict a character with such a flaw but not making them a villain.

@peaceandloveusa6656

Жыл бұрын

I'm definitely one of those people that holds a big chip on my shoulder from the Vi-Powder moment, but it makes perfect sense for her character and I eventually conceded it was an honest mistake. If I learned one person I love just killed pretty much everyone else I loved after I just barely made it out of a life-threatening situation, odds are I would not be rushing to give them a hug and tell them it's not their fault, it was just an accident, either.

@MissingSirius

Жыл бұрын

After watching Arcane I was surprised to find that people are so adamantly on either Vi or Jinx's side. Like, the beauty of the show is that everyone is acting within their characterization and everyone's -- even the villains -- actions are understandable and motivated given what they know and what they have experienced.

@__-fm5qv

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, do people expect that Vi of all people wouldn't have gotten into a heated scrap over something with powder in the past? Not saying that they fight frequently, just that both characters are prone to outbursts of sorts and its only natural with siblings to occasionally fight. So the hit isn't want hurt, it was the words, and Vi knew that as she said it that was the point. It was the only outlet for her own emotional pain at that time she had. Again not to be excused, but it is very understandable, we've all said things we've instantly regretted just because we wanted to hurt someone who hurt us in the moment.

@mackielunkey2205

Жыл бұрын

It reminded me so much of the Water 7 Arc in One Piece where Luffy lunges at and unwittingly says to Usopp that if he wasn't ok with the Going Merry being left to die, then he should leave the Straw Hats, which was an UTTERLY stupid thing to say at the time, especially considering how Usopp was going through extreme bouts of denial and grief. However, it's absolutely understandable like Vi's outburst, considering that Usopp accused Luffy of only pretending to care about the Going Merry. And at least, (though it got a LOT worse after that) everything eventually worked out between them and they apologized to each other, since as a series based on a younger audience than Arcane, it would be too depressing if that were the case, and Arcane reminds me of One Piece in quite a few aspects other than the organic character interactions. With Arcane, since it isn't focused on a younger demographic, they could take these kinds of consequences and push them even further, as exemplified here, with Powder becoming Jinx which then leads to her destroying the Council in episode 9. That's the reason why the ending of episode 3 (and in turn, the rest of series revolving around Vi and Jinx's conflict) works so well-everything made so much sense, that it's easy to understand the characters and hard to blame them for how they acted. This moment would've been easily botched if they made Vi denounce Powder the same way Powder denounced Vi, but the writers chose to take a more complex, route for Vi by having her contemplate about what she had done and determine how she should fix it, rather than play the part of the vengeful fighter and turn it into a milquetoast good-evil plotline.

Vi is seriously one of the most Interesting characters in Western TV and mostly it's unrelated to her being physically strong or a fighter. She is presented as the sort of main character and hero of the story yet is in many ways the Antagonist to Jinx(whom the show actually revolves around) and directly or indirectly leads to her downfall and the war despite her best intentions. Jinx is the monster that Vi, the noble hero, created. even though Vi did everything she could to do the opposite, but just her nature and ignorance to what Jinx had become doomed her to push her sister away. that is such a good story to tell and runs entire different to how most Western stories are in current media. and her being a buff butch brawler wasn't the core to that interesting dynamic.

Buzzword motivation: What makes the character assassination of Galadriel in RoP even more soul crushing is that the writers would have had a perfectly fine angle from the books to motivate her. In the books, Galadriel is an inherently prideful person, who, for the longest time, had the desire to have a dominion of her own. It's a flaw of hers, one that the one ring appeals to in the scene where Frodo offers it to her. That's what makes that scene so significant and the words that came after it "I passed the test. I will diminish.. and go into the west... and remain Galadriel". It means that she was able to overcome her pride and overcome that desire of ruling over others, giving her reason to go back home to Valinor, eventho that means giving up her status as a queen/lady. And that flaw could have *easily* been used in the show to drive her forward, but instead they chose to pretty much eradicate absolutely everything about her character and make her a vessle for vengeance. And that erasure also affected her good qualities, of course. In the books, even tho she is this prideful person, she is still compassionate and caring. It does play into her pride, but she cares deeply for the people of her dominion. She protects them, which is why she initially doesn't want to help the fellowship directly. She doesn't want to risk her own people, but also doesn't want to riks losing what she's built herself, so her motives are both her flaws as well as her virtues. Even her offer for Frodo and Sam to look into the mirror is framed as "I don't give you advice, but you might learn something useful". Which she only does at all at this point, because she symphasizes with a fellow ring bearer. First *after* she passed the test and overcame her pride, she took a more active role in helping the fellowship, giving them adive for their next destination and granting them gifts. And all of this, compassion, sympathy, foresight and pride, all of this is completely gone in RoP. She has absolutely none of these qualities. You can argue for pride, but not the same kind she had in the books. RoP Galadriel has a self-righteous form of pride - on where she thinks that the end justifies the means. Book Galadriel is prideful in the sense that she thinks she deserves a dominion of her own, but she actually has the qualities to show for it and knows of the responsibilities that come with it. RoP doesn't give a flying damn for responsibilities or the consequences of her actions whatsoever. And yes, people might wanna argue that "it plays before the events of the books, so maybe she has to develope these qualities first". But no. That's a very weak argument. Even if someone is still far away from "passing the test", they'd still show some of those qualities. There is absolutely no way that would seem logical or natural in which RoP Galadriel could develope and evolve into anything even remotely similar to book Galadriel. RoP Galadriel is by the end of the day a completely different character altogether. And that's the worst part about it. If the writers really wanted to go with an angle of the protagonist spiraling downwards into being the actual bad guy (which I don't actually think they intended, it's just what happened through their crappy writing), then they should have just invented a new character for it. Not kill off a beloved and honestly very important character of the Tolkien world.

@cailin5301

Жыл бұрын

Best summary of it I've seen so far. Thank you

@SauronGorthaur01

Жыл бұрын

Very good write up.

The problem with Galadriel is that she's strong because she is, where Vi shines is that she is strong because of her will to protect people she cares about. It's why she goes to hell and back fighting Sevika, it's why the only time she left her guard down was when her own sister snuck up on her. Her willingness to protect people is her strength but it's also established that it is also her weakness, because she lets her guard down multiple times because of this.

@mariaramonatanasie3506

Жыл бұрын

Galadriel is strong because she was trained by some of the most powerful existing entitities in Ea (the planet on which Middle Earth and Valinor exist) buuuut the writer did not include this information at all. The reason may be that Galadriel's story is in the Silmarillion - the book which the writers of the show have no rights for and Tolkien's family made it clear in the trial they won against Warner Bros that RoP will not make any reference to any source material apart from the Lotr movie content (plus appendixes and all that). However this not excuses bad writing - just bars the easy way of writing Galadriel

@gimmeyourrights8292

Жыл бұрын

@@mariaramonatanasie3506 If it doesn't excuse her bad writing than why did you mention it?

@yiklongtay6029

Жыл бұрын

Oooh that's a good take. I would easily be more impressed by someone who pursued competence for a noble cause rather than someone who is naturally competent or at most trained for neutral or self-serving reasons. It's clear Vi trained hard so that she can help protect everyone around her

@sprouts7768

Жыл бұрын

Still though, strength from "perfection" just feels robotic, that show in a scifi setting with her as an Android would be much more compelling. Vi is a well written human hero because she is such a bad a*s but is still broken/ flawed in a character defining way.

The algorithm coughed up your video to me, I just finished it and wanted to say well done!! This was a well written little video essay and did a great job comparing/contrasting some of the parallels between two characters who were written VERY differently. Keep up the great work!

@OneDapperFrog

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, same.

@erinkarp

Жыл бұрын

same here!

@danielbatista8760

Жыл бұрын

Same

@VadBlackwood

Жыл бұрын

Same. Algorithm did good today.

@mifigor1935

Жыл бұрын

It's very simple. They don't care about having a strong woman. They just want something to silence the feminists (the bad type). They needed someone who just looked at a scene or two to think "yes that's a strong woman"

I love how passionate you sound when talking about these characters, be it appreciation for Vi or pure hatred for Galadriel

@laisphinto6372

Жыл бұрын

she isnt galadrial..

The animated characters in arcane feel infinitely more human than real life human actors.

@Londronable

Жыл бұрын

I don't watch a lot of series/movies myself and I'm mostly a reader. As a reader obviously what everything looks like is an aspect of my imagination. Real life actors frankly often get in the way of my enjoyment. In animation everything can be done perfectly. Emotions done in cartoons/anime are often done much better imo than with real life actors.

@stalinsoulz7872

Жыл бұрын

@@Londronable also the real problems are Actors and Limited freedom as the core problem. -> Has freedom and total Cooperative Mindset Where live action comes as -> actors acting restriction -> Writers not fully connected nor fully compassionate to the source material.

Someone else pointed out that the greatest strengths of Arcane's characters are also their greatest weaknesses. Vi is an excellent fighter, but because she put so much time and energy into learning how to fight, it's her first response to almost every problem. She hits Powder in episode 3 which drives a wedge between them and also she fights Sevika in episode 5, in front of witnesses, giving up the element of surprise to Silco.

Definitely glad KZread recommended this video to me. You did a great analysis on them both. Vi is just such a great character due to not letting her weaknesses stop her but to help push her, as well as having two mechanized fists to punch her way through trouble. Also glad that Arcane transferred Vi's playstyle into Arcane because she is all about charging into battle and breaking down defenses while defense is to the side as a Passive ability.

@kurciqs8355

Жыл бұрын

agree

@pinkquinly7036

Жыл бұрын

Preach

riot really did a number. they raised the bar pretty high. i'm glad that hollywood is getting shit on right now. they deserve it. the animation, music, story telling, backdrop, character arcs.... everything about arcane was really well done; and i was extremely skeptical. one of the best animated series i've seen in awhile, and honestly one of the best shows i've seen period. the amount of care they put into the human motion, facial expressions included. just out of this world.

I love how Arcane has set such a standard for so many different aspects of media lol

I loved the video, you raised some great points. I absolutely loved Vi and didn't like Galadriel, but couldn't put my finger on why. You've done a great job spelling it out.

No idea what you usually make, but you got yourself a sub if you make more content like this, good work.

@hannamouse1

Жыл бұрын

This was actually a bit of an experiment, really. I mostly do art and video game stuff, but I thought that I'd try this style of video. Felt like I had something to say. And you guys actually want to listen to my opinions? Fantastic - I'll definitely do more of this sort of content moving forwards! Glad you enjoyed!

@calibre97

Жыл бұрын

@@hannamouse1 Great analysis...apt comparison...supporting evidence from the sources. Yeah you should be doing more if you've got it.

@matthewmyatt5698

Жыл бұрын

@@hannamouse1 I love videos like this and will probably watch them if you make more, keep at it!

I honestly would say that Galadriel in Lord of the rings had a more compelling, more believable, and more impactful arc. And she was maybe on screen for 20 minutes? She is introduced in a more compelling manner, that gives insight to the depth of her character. We get to see her struggle when the ring is presented to her, we see her overcome that struggle with greater emotional impact at her own success then we see throughout the entirety of rings of power. We see her overcome that temptation and grow from it. Feeling more empowered and more strong in her own self, having answered a question that she was always wondering about. We see her caring and compassion in the gifts that she gives the fellowship, specifically in the brief intimate moment she shares with Gimli.

HOW DO YOU ONLY HAVE 114 SUBSCRIBERS? This is one of the best videos i've ever seen, I love seeing a smart woman apreciate female characters without falling for pandering. Instantly subscribed and notifications are on, keep up the great work.

It's VI's grit and persistence that allows her to compete. The fact that she risks everything, burying that feeling, standing up to what's essentially a disadvantage. Her power is very much clenching her teeth and act on instinct when she needs to. But her world is a harsh one, and beating her opponent is not only survival - it's a living. Sure she steals, but the struggle in Zaun is also keeping what is yours for the moment. This mentality has surely molded her well into adulthood. It would make sense for her to become a powerful rogue-cop foil to someone like Caitlyn, as VI always pursued justice in her own way - In her violent, yet protective manner. It's fucking brilliant. As a VI main, this is the sort of media of my actual dreams come true. Good on Riot for branching into things like Arcane. They've worked hard to make their old and dusty stories shine these recent years. Good on them.

Intelligent and compelling arguments, you got right what a billion dollar production could not or didn't care enough to accomplish.

When you read it out like that, I just realized how ironic is was for Galadriel to threaten to take a boat back to Middle Earth by force! For the uninformed, the Rings of Power prologue basically goes "Morgoth ruined heaven, he fled over the sea and we followed him" In the lore it wasn't that simple. The elves that chased after Morgoth didn't have boats, only the sea-faring elf communities had them. The current High-king at the time demanded use of the boats, but the sea-elves understandably refused because they didn't want to be affiliated with shit-disturbers. So the High-King ordered his people to take the boats by force, which resulted in a brutal massacre forever known as The Kinslaying. While official lore is unclear if Galadriel's clan personally took part in the slaughter, it still traumatized almost everyone involved and it effectively soured any allegiances the elves could have with the elf clans indigenous to Middle Earth because they were wary of associating with extremists and murderers.

I study writing, and as i've come to realise, if your writing of characters and worlds is rock solid, it doesnt matter the setting/gender/race/whatever. you can make the most insane things work as long as you make us believe them. every time i see "galadrial" in the show she always looks like a generic girlboss, but everytime i see vi i nearly always connected with her struggles and empathised with her strongly. good writing always wins.

What a great analysis! The "punching powder" part is truly understandable, people don't like violence especially against kids, but Vi was also a kid at that time that just lost her father figure, she was going through an emotional rollercoaster at that moment and sometimes our human emotions can get extreme, unpredictable, and vulnerable.

Very nicely put! It's a shame we get more shows like RoP than like Arcane these days.

@spencerstabio5936

Жыл бұрын

Word.

The way that galadriel consistently demonstrates strength by ignoring the needs of and stepping on the people around her, makes me feel like the filming of it must have been a super toxic environment

I always see males giving review about the flop of the rings of power, but boy, female to female perspective is what we're needing right now. This review is factual and executed very well in contrast and comparison. Thank you for standing up against this horrendous forced agenda writing.

I think that many of the toxic traits of Galadriel might have been the attempt of the writters to portray the elves as cold, distant and arrogant, as perceived by the rest of the races. But in the LOTR both Tolkien and the screnwritters of the movies did a good job on showing Legolas as an elve with more or less these characteristics but that at the same time was kind, making jokes, and respectful to others, despite the harmful stereotypes he held against the dwarfs at the beginning of this journey.

Ok, first of all, this analysis was SPECTACULAR!! You did such a wonderful job of illustrating all the similarities and how one shines where the other just falls flat. Amazing work, honestly! Second, how is it that I never thought of this before?!?! Their arcs are like mirrors that reflect each other on a surface level, this just goes to show the importance of pre-production, careful planning & specially, the motivation behind the ideas. You can clearly see which one wanted to convey a story and share gut-wrenching human experiences while the other one wants to appeal to nostalgia and get lots of money.

The crazy thing is, that's more than just how to write a good strong female character, that's how to write ANY good strong character. And Hollywood is supposed to have known this for decades

RIP Grayson, the grandma we all deserve

Definitely agreed with the leader part. Going off ahead of your team doesn't make you a better leader, it makes you a show off. A real leader may know they're good or better than everyone but they lead from within the pack or even behind it to make sure the team succeeds. Great vid.

I really enjoyed the video! One thing I would like to comment on is your third recommendation, to give your characters flaws. I don't think characters need to be deeply flawed to be interesting, and these two are a good example of that. Between the two, Vi seems to be far more admirable by basically every metric. As you pointed out, Galadriel has tons of flaws (apathetic, arrogant, vengeful, etc), but that doesn't make her interesting. In contrast, Vi comes off as caring and courageous from start to finish. She makes mistakes, obviously, but each of them hits like a truck specifically because they're out of character for her; they're what she does when pushed to the absolute brink. And every time she does fail, the narrative brutally punishes her for it, which also gives her the opportunity to learn and grow. That's what makes her interesting: her growth and perseverance, not the mistakes themselves. I guess what I'm saying is that the likeability of characters is built primarily on the story that surrounds them. I don't think flaws are inherently necessary to writing an interesting character, hardship is. That hardship can be born from flaws, but we'll only root for the flawed character if their hardships are used as an opportunity for change. Otherwise, it's just somebody unpleasant making poor decisions and paying the price for it (which can be fun to watch too). By the same token, a character can be essentially perfect but still compelling if they're in a compelling story. For another example of what I'm talking about from Arcane, take Caitlyn. She undergoes a fantastic amount of personal growth over the course of the show, but that's all based on what she learns and experiences (i.e. what happens in the story). She doesn't really have any overt flaws that need to be corrected, unless you count ignorance, though she's intelligent and open-minded enough to fix that pretty much the instant she's offered another perspective. As a person - her values and strengths - she's remarkably static, and quite charming for it. TL;DR The paragon of virtue is a cool archetype, and will only be boring if your story is boring.

@hannamouse1

Жыл бұрын

A big problem is that Galadriel's flaws aren't really treated like flaws. She acts like a cow, but because she's always right, It's framed to diminish the other characters instead of her. According to the show runners, the destruction of the dagger represents the destruction of Galadriel's innocence. If this is her as innocent, I dread to see her in S2.

@johnjacobjingleheimersmith8279

Жыл бұрын

​@@hannamouse1 Oh, absolutely. I guess it's less a matter of giving your character flaws, and more a matter of having the narrative acknowledge them. Vi has an advantage from the get-go just because she's framed within a better story. If we're being optimistic, that means there is hope for Galadriel in S2. She definitely has flaws to overcome, meaning if the storytelling improves, so might her characterization.

@grimm516

Жыл бұрын

Have to say what both of you say are good points & it's appreciated, one thing I would like to point out is as much as we are comparing characters and stuff we also should comparing over all execution of the production Eg: in arcane nothing is wasted every moment on screen in used to help highlight vi, tbh every character compared to rings there is so much superfluous crap that serves no purpose other than to "look cool" And evan that is insulting. So something I just released just now is evan the reveal of jinx is so good in arcane compared to rings, so I'm a fan of the games and have a understanding of where the characters will eventually end up and I'm so excited to see it evan if I know to final stop... Compared to the crappy underwhelming and frankly bad set up and reveal of Halbrand I know where it ends and I loathe it all. In both I saw it coming & loved one to death & the other vomit my stomach lining out... Anyway sorry for the rant rings of power just triggers me

@androkguz

Жыл бұрын

@@hannamouse1 "but because she is always right..." No! She is never right in the show. Her hunches are either wrong and racist or are the result of being manipulated by the dark lord sauron himself. Her actions cause the return of sauron, the blinding of the numenorian queen, the creation of Mordor and the creation of the elven rings. The show *does* show us she is a cow causing problems. I'm not sure where the general public missed that but I think it was somewhere in the marketing of the show that people got it in their heads that the show was trying to go for a heroic Galadriel. But that's wrong. Hell, there's no bigger proof of this than Sauron thanking her for getting him back and proposing to her. He *knows* the kind of person she is and is very much into it

@hannamouse1

Жыл бұрын

@@androkguz I'll say - I didn't watch any of the marketing for the show, in fact, I consciously avoided it so I could go in blind. The first exposure I had to it was when I watched the first episode on the day it was released. I had no clue what I was getting into going into it. But when I say that she's always right, what I mean is, that's how the show tries to frame her, narratively. Like, we know that a lot of the things she says and does are vile, but the show tries to frame her as this icon of innocence, who is mistreated and misunderstood by those around her, especially in the first episode. Take the climb up the mountain. Here, the elf asking to go back is probably right, logically. However, because by pure happenstance they wind up in this fortress, he's framed as whiny and pathetic, while she's clever and resilient. When Galadriel jumps off the boat, it's the most stupid thing I've ever seen, but she's framed like the victim of Gil-Galad's manipulations, as he knew that she was right about darkness persisting in the world. Yes - Galadriel does some pretty awful things, but I'll be very surprised if the show gives her the comeuppance she deserves for them, because she's framed narratively as an icon of perfection - up until she destroys the dagger (her innocence, as the show runners said) and creates the rings, which is framed as the only true reprehensible act that she commits. Even the queen going blind/ Isildur's "death", Elendil calls her out on it, but does a full 180 between episodes and goes back to not hating her again, for no real reason. And Sauron returning, yup, absolutely her fault. Pretty sure that Sauron was perfectly happy making swords for a living until she stirred the pot, but I somehow doubt that she'll be vilified for that to the extent that she should be in the next season. Although this is speculation - they might chuck her back into the ocean like she deserves - but she'll probably still be framed like a good person. p.s. While yes, she does the other 3 things you mentioned, Mordor would still have been created without Galadriel's involvement, because Theo still gives Adar the sword, Adar uses the sword to open the most over-engineered spillway in all of existence, Mt doom still erupts, Mordor is still created. Only difference is that there's 1 less battle. Ironically, this is just about the only thing that Galadriel actually takes responsibility for, but she... isn't actually responsible for that one.

The main difference to me is that one has actual character development, the other doesn't. Vi grows into being less impulsive and learns you can't solve everything with violence. Galadriel, in the meantime, never learns that it's not acceptable to sacrifice the people around you for an obsession, and is never questioned for resorting to cruelty when it wasn't necessary. Vi suffers the consequences of her actions by facing Powder, now Jinx, after abandoning her. Galadriel goes against the wishes of everyone around her, the elven king in particular, and is greeted back as a hero.

Damn, I teared up from just seeing the still images in your video on the Arcane episode 3 moment. Shows how well that was done in the show.

That was an excellent analysis with great editing. A very good video essay.

Excellently well done! And the art during the video was a rather nice touch.

This was such a well done and much needed comparison, thank you!

I think you broke this down very well, good job. Very nice drawing too, it was actually a satisfying backdrop to your discussion watching it come together.

I really enjoyed your analysis! Keep churning out great content like this.

This is so well written and your points are excellent, I love the cuts of you drawing. This could be a core concept

OP (overpowered) character that can singlehandedly defeat the enemies can be satisfying and compelling in its own. To make an interesting story with OP character, they usually make the OP character unrelated to the struggle happening so this character won't seem to be unlikable or stupid just because they don't help. As an example, in 1 story I know, the viewers see the antagonist murdering random people so sadistically. We start to get annoyed. We wait for the OP character to show up. There's a build up that they will meet. Then when the OP character's friends get murdered, the OP character takes revenge quite easily. Of course, giving the enemies chances to brag about their power and then get obliterated will be more satisfying. It really needs a lot of tricks to make an OP character interesting to watch.

@Thedarkbunnyrabbit

Жыл бұрын

AN OP character needs to be carried by their personality. They cannot have outward conflicts as their struggle beyond some once-an-arc villain of similar power to them, so they must instead have inward conflicts or character conflicts. The worst thing you can do is have an OP character with a bland personality and incoherent or nonexistent interpersonal conflicts.

@stefanijovita1640

Жыл бұрын

@@Thedarkbunnyrabbit Personality is important ofc, but I didn't mention it because it's already said in the video. This is just something I want to add, since I've seen several OP characters handled this way, aside from their personality, motivation, and conflicts. And I don't really think the character should always have inner conflict in each arc. Sometimes, they're just mature enough that consistency is what's needed in that arc. In that example, the character's only goal at the time was to gather money and have his name known. The only bit of vulnerability he showed (without expression since he's wearing a mask) was that he'd lost his friends, so he refused to replace them with this new group. After the new group was brutally massacred without him knowing, he only chased after the antagonist after he got paid by their relatives, but he killed the antagonist brutally, admitting he's annoyed. I've seen viewers celebrated that moment.

@Hyperversum3

Жыл бұрын

@@stefanijovita1640 The thing is even simpler: if your protagonist is so "OP" that combat isn't an actual source of tension and conflict, your story it's not about that, you need something else. Only... Certain demographics can warch an invicible character crushing everything but still being trated as "just another person in the setting". The simplest example it's One Punch Man, which is clearly not about the fights of its protagonist, Saitama, because he literally destroys any Monster in a punch. The manga itself is about the comedy that ensues from his power creating more and more absurd early on and, after a while, it's about how this absurd powers has been going unrecognized by society. It's a story about a guy who peaked in his "hobby" but doesn't find satisfaction because he lacks new challenges, and fails to find it even when turning It into a job. Here and there we get actual action scenes, but the narrative never tries to fake the fact that he will win in a single (serious) blow

@stefanijovita1640

Жыл бұрын

@@Hyperversum3 ​ True. Again, I'm just explaining one way to build a battle scene for an OP character, since the video mentioned that having OP character made the battle outcome predictable and uninteresting. That part is the one specifically I want to add. One Punch Man also works similarly to how I explained in terms of how they build the battle scene. They usually have somebody else in the scene get beaten to a pulp, we wait for Saitama to arrive and solve the problem. Ofc this is just one way, but used in many stories with OP characters (One Piece, Overlord, Solo Leveling). The key to this, I think, is to make the OP character beats the enemies in a proper time of need. Galadriel didn't help when she was present nearby. In another scene, she showed off when training the knights while the knights didn't deserve to be beaten that way. She didn't use her power in a proper time of need. In other stories, the OP character doesn't care about some mockery. They only beat them when the mocking ppl get in their way. That's how we can get a satisfaction from the OP character beating someone. Ofc it'd be predictable, but predictable in a satisfying way because they act properly when they need to.

@Hyperversum3

Жыл бұрын

@@stefanijovita1640 Oh yeah, that's an example of the "your narrative comes from something else". Just to quote again OPM, the famous fight that ends the First part of the manga/ Season 1 is the hero apparently meeting an equal for the first time. Big spectacle, great fight. Then the enemy says "You aren't giving your all, are you" or something to that effect, which is true, and the fight ends again with Saitama easily punching him dead, but seriously this time. The fight gives both spectacle and doesn't change one bit the premise of the story. Its satisfaction comes both from a cool fight and the clearest example of Saitama personal issue: he just can't find someone that can satisfy his itch to fight once more for real. Again, the premise of "OP" is used to create a real narrative. The viewer, if doubts Saitama OPness, it's because the "trick" was diagetic, It happened in the story, as Saitama tries to make the other guy happy by giving him a fair fight rather than destroying him in one hit. The story never says anything else. THAT'S smart writing.

Great video. Really well reasoned, solid points of comparison, I'd not really thought about how similar these two characters are in theory. Keep it up!

So 👏 good! 👏 I've been thinking about making a Rings of Power vs Arcane show comparison video, and so much of it comes down to character work. Well done and put together 😊👍

Let me just say that watching a great drawing being made while listening to character analysis is somehow such a perfect, relaxing combination! Great video!

A very well thought out video, and a very interesting watch. Also, loved the visuals :3

I really enjoyed this video, a very good breakdown and comparison of the two. You have earned another sub!

Awesome video! You explained everything perfectly!

“Pompeyed the lot of them” was spot on :D

Please do more of this content!! You are extremely talented at it!

Imo, animation in general is able to show emotion more clearly because they can exaggerate the emotion to get the audience to: 1. Recognize the significance of the scene, and to 2. And convey clearly how a character is feeling, without having to rely on an actor’s direction or just not the best acting. Edit: I mean animation that is more stylized, and not realistic.

I was thinking about this the other day while remembering Arcane and the character's writing. Your video it's well made, you make good points and you have a really nice voice, so thanks.

Wow such a well down analysis. I’ve watched arcane but not rings of power but still I understood every one of your points. You perfectly explained the difference between those two characters in such a concise and engaging fashion, and you drew my attention to things in arcane I didn’t notice before, thus making me appreciate this show even more. This show’s character work truly is impeccable. Great video

Just to clarify something real quick. For the majority of this I agree with you. But there is a lore reason for Galadriel being a little more controlled with her emotions. In the LOTR lore, elves can literally die from being too sad. So her weeping and wailing over the body of her brother wouldnt track the same way.

So, minor disagreement with regards to no enjoyment watching a character win a fight they knew they could win. That absolutely can be some of the coolest and most fondly remembered moments/fights in a piece of media, but the thing is the narrative and honestly the framing *needs* to be correct. I think it doesn't work in RoP because a. the elves with her should all be some of the most skilled fighters out of all elves, and they're shown to be pretty useless, b. we're given very little reason to believe that this *should* be a one sided fight (like maybe instead of the sword jumping, you would see Galadriel step up to the troll, effortlessly dodge a swipe by the smallest margin and maybe slash a tendon in the arm and we see it go limp. It would then try with the other arm, she'd slash again to make the other arm go limp and then effortlessly finish it off) and c. at this point we're more regarding her as a leader, and we've seen nothing that would indicate training in her backstory, and no leadership skills up till this point.

Excellent video and analysis. Well done!

Awesome video. Great essay and art work

How I love discovering a channel that I know is gonna blow up at some point. Great video!

Your video popped up on my feed. I just finished. Love it!

This video got you a new subscriber. This was a great analysis of the two characters. 16min well spent.

Excellent video / breakdown. Thank you.

I don’t think I’ve ever empathized with a female character more than in this show, or at least I’ve never emphasized with a strong female character more than vi, take notes marvel.

This is an incredible analysis and comparison. I was hooked the whole time!

Beautifully illustrated. The drawing was good, too 👍

Very well thought out! I agree completely with every point you made, I'm glad the algorithm showed this video to me!! :D I'm looking forward to more content you make!

Excellent analysis, and great advice! Well done!

Really good breakdown, I enjoyed the video!

All these issues with Galadriel are just infinitely compounded with the deep lore we already have about her and how starkly different she is in RoP.

have you read Berserk? I think youd like it. Its dark, brutal and gruesome like nothing youve ever seen, but has some of the best character writing Ive ever seen. Caska is and remains on of my favorite characters ever. Tho she IS rivaled by Vi and Jinx, Im not convinced they out rank her.

Nice structure I especially liked the panels of different shots.

I don't know who you are but I am glad KZread showed me your video. You absolutely hit the nail on the head with this one. Galadriel lacks any depth to her character and that sucks because Galadriel from LotR could display a lot of emotion with a single glance.

Perfect dissertation and impeccable analysis 👍

WoW. Excellent video. I totaly agree with everything u said and was also verry pleased to ear it. Keep up the good work!

This is a fantastic run down - great work

I hope you make more analysis vids in the future, you are very insightful and your voice really suits the content, not to mention you godly editing :)

Yet another person brought to you by the algorithm. Loved this video. Your usual stuff is not my usual thing so I am glad that you tried this experiment. Loved the video. Yes I realize I already said that. It's worth repeating. Thank you for making it.

The algorithm has blessed you, child. And you have been found worthy, with this excellent work 😁

Fantastic video and analysis! Although I believe it doesn't properly explain the differences here, I can't help but think of "men writing women". How in media there's a tendency that women either are portrayed as excessively emotional, sometimes borderline hysterical, or they have to be cold and aloof to be seen as powerful. Arcane knows that women are just... People. Characters. The gender doesn't determine how a character acts, but it's their traits, personality, and the depth therein. Rings of Power meanwhile seems to fall victim to more of the tropes that plague so much writing, and because it's such a fallible basis to begin with the writing ends up all over the place as a result. Arcane's better from moment one because it knows being female isn't a character trait. RoP doesn't seem to know what being female means.

Dude, this video is great and I couldn’t believe that it was your only review video. Keep it up!

This was brilliant! Thank you so much for this video

Excellent comparison, and there are lots of things I hadn't considered, partly because I still haven't checked Arcane, but I think your analysis is one of the deepest and freshest I've come across, and most people, myself included, would likely miss a lot of these parallels. Again, great work, and kudos to you for it!

Now I unironically would want to see Vi knee-ing Galadriel in the face lol

Extremely well done, concise and to the point! I was shocked when I saw your sub count lmao I really hope you continue to make more content like this in the future (especially Arcane)!

Lovely video and analysis! Subbed!! Keep up the good work :)

I was waiting for someone to make a video like this

Really good work here, I appreciate this breakdown

Good analysis. Really great comparison

Great analysis! Totally referring to this for my writing!

I really enjoyed this video! You have a lots of good points

It's crazy how animation look more alive than an actual human actor...

Very nice drawing tutorial in the background additionally to the good video xD

Honestly, arcane is a golden standard to adaptations and good characters, up there with the expanse & edgerunners this is where we always need to be hmmm. Rings of power is not evan so bad it's good it's so bad unlike Super Mario Bros 1993 is

Wonderful thoughts. Thank you for sharing! All the symbolism of items, actions, places, relationships, and the emotion shown through the sheer animation skill of Arcane still make me cry when seeing or thinking about it. "You're perfect." - Silco to his own show Off-topic: the parallel presentation of Jayce's ascension and Viktor's deterioration is probably my favourite staging of the show, though it's hard to tell because all of it is so incredibly good!

Solid video, great watch!

This is the first hannamouse video I've seen, wow 💯% subscribed!

I watched neither show, but this was an excellent study and essay. Well done! 🎉

Considering the quality of the analysis and the video, I was certain you sub count is at least 50k. Keep up the amazing work!

Really good comparison and shows how the execution vastly changes perception.