Totally agree about athel yen lui. Deceptively tricky. Feels like it should be easy but somehow never is. (With randoms)

Convocation of Decay is my most hated mission.

@savingalice1600

3 жыл бұрын

It's pretty damn hard bit the key of the end Event is to keep moving. As long as you don't stop runing in the circle in one direction everything should be fine. Your goal in the end Event is not to fight everyone but only to survive

@sulphuric_glue4468

3 жыл бұрын

@@savingalice1600 A good trick is also to stay close together, which randos often struggle to do. The major problem with the final fight is getting surrounded, if you stick together you can cover each other's backs

@marah4847

3 жыл бұрын

@@sulphuric_glue4468 my main problem with the map is when you get a little too close to the bottom after falling off and just getting sudden flashbangs constantly

@sbraypaynt

2 жыл бұрын

I despise playing it with randoms not because of the end event but mostly because of when you drop down into the sluice in the sewer you often get a chaos spawn, and it just throws everyone into potato mode.

@Aybo1000

2 жыл бұрын

One of my favourites

Festering ground is situationally extremely hard. Trying to solo it with bots as a Grail Knight or a Warrior Priest is absurd at higher difficulties because it's practically impossible to stop the bots from standing in the rot

The best part about a quiet drink is the bar fight music.

@WetMagic

3 жыл бұрын

Yes!

Feel like the video would have popped a bit more if it had some short clips cleanly mixed in that highlighted each level and what you were mentioning about the level. Don't get me wrong, I know that's a lot more work in post editing, but hopefully this still comes off as a friendly suggestion.

@WetMagic

3 жыл бұрын

No I get it. its a pretty long while to look at the same screen. It came out a lot longer than I thought it would honestly 😂 Maybe I’ll try that next time.

@jorgenmcsloppy5973

3 жыл бұрын

Surprisingly wholesome editing feedback

Against the Grain has always been a consistently difficult but fun map, might be my favorite too.

I loved this tierlist, while watching I considered how I would also rank them back when I only had legend and basically spot on with you, maybe swap around some D tier, but for cataclysm I'd be swapping the high tiers a bit

Where does trail of treachery fit in now? 🤔

Convo is by far the most difficult on cataclysm. I beat dark omen in 3 tries. I've played convo at least 10 times in pub games. Some great. Some not so much. You need a really good squad to do that map. It's the only one I need to get the cata frame. We came close today, but dang, that end part is just miserable.

@savingalice1600

3 жыл бұрын

The Key is to keep moving. Don't really try to fight the hordes up there, Specials only when it gets to crowded, Jump down fight a little bit keep kiting and moving (the whole Team in one direction) and then get back in the circle and stay there as long as possible again. This way you could techniqually solo it (if you are crazy😂)

@one7decimal2eight

2 жыл бұрын

I change my mind back to Dark Omens. I am pretty sure they nerfed convo big time. Before they send all specials after you with blight storms and many elites.

@twixtwix2915

2 жыл бұрын

@@one7decimal2eight it has felt that way recently with the final event

@boka3751

2 жыл бұрын

@@twixtwix2915 It did get nerfed. No storms or leeches

@twixtwix2915

2 жыл бұрын

@@boka3751 that sucks

Blightreaper has no business being in S tier, and definitely not above Enchanter's Lair. The hardest part is the opening, but once you're past the darkness you're smooth sailing. Ending part is ez pz, and that's on Cataclysm too.

@Pahhu

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I totally disagree with Blightreaper being S, I'd honestly put it in B. The dark part isn't even that difficult imo, it's more just annoying.

@twixtwix2915

2 жыл бұрын

Enchanters lair is very easy until nurgloth. And he’s only difficult without a boss killer

@twixtwix2915

2 жыл бұрын

Tho I agree blightreaper isn’t that bad

Hardest maps imo are the second and third Drachenfels maps, the beastmen map and convocation of decay. Easiest ones are the temple of sigmar and horn of magnus. My favorite ones are all of the VT1 maps, temple of sigmar, skittergate and the dwarven map.

It's interesting to me that some of he maps I complete the least often on Legend and Cata you rank as some of the easier ones. Hunger, Empire in Flames, Drachenfels 2. I don't even know why those seem to end runs for me consistently, while something like Athel Yenlui is usually not too difficult with a coordinated party.

I like the list and understand your reasoning. These are different for me though. Convocation: S Dark omens: A Yenlui: C Hunger: D

@WetMagic

3 жыл бұрын

That’s fair. A bit surprised by athel in c, but I can understand the other changes.

@aspiringmarauder666

3 жыл бұрын

@@WetMagic I just can't remember the last time I had a rough time on that map. I feel I'm more likely to fail on into the nest lol.

@sbraypaynt

2 жыл бұрын

Personally I don’t play Yenlui often because of randoms and my own noobiness. I would have it in S purely because most have no idea where to go until it’s too late and also I have no clue of the book locations so I need more practice in it before I’d ever consider it as A or other.

I dunno what it’s like on PC, but on PS4 any map where the bots can throw themselves off a ledge is a nightmare. My bots are suicidal it seems.

@WetMagic

3 жыл бұрын

It’s pretty much the same for pc 😂

How do you feel about the issues of Convo and Enchanters Lair where the map is arguably easy only until the very end event? Clearly some maps are intended to offer a greater challenge than others, but it's very disheartening to run a map nearly unchallenged to the 90% mark and then wipe if the team comp isn't perfect or someone gets grabbed. Maps that offer decent challenges throughout like Old Haunts or Athel feel more fun as challenges because it's not just a long buildup to failure, but instead you get the feeling that if we made it this far we're probably going to finish by the time you make it to the end. Even Into the Nest has a moment like that, the monster spawn in the forge area with the tome in the minecart is one of those breaking points where it may offer a good challenge bc of how easy it is to get separated by specials, armor, and ads with all the obstacles and debris, and if there's a chaos spawn going around trying to grab you and the squad it can be tough.

@WetMagic

3 жыл бұрын

I think it's fine in the case of enchanter's lair. You're going to fight this powerful lord and there's 3 maps of buildup to it so it makes sense that he would be really hard. Convo is a different story. It's just a poorly designed end event with turd visibility and too many specials (especially gas rats). Annoying light flashes for no reason. You can adjust settings to remedy this a bit, but most people won't know to do that. There should at least be no blightstormers and less gas on that event.

I feel that the bell is one of the easiest for me, but maybe that’s just because I rush through it as fast as possible.

@jdogkingz1631

3 жыл бұрын

Same i vote that d

@crazymanmoovie657

3 жыл бұрын

sames

Blight Reaper is a great map. It's pretty easy though. The splits in the paths are just two diamond/square shapes. You can't get lost in the dark.

That last part of dark omens is insane.

Agree on the list overall, not sure about Blighreaper being S tier, Convocation feels harder on Cata and Legend in my experience, Engines of War feels harder as well. Fully agree on Dark Omens :)

Thanks, great list again! :) I was surprised you put Blightreaper in S never thought of it as a hard map only a long one. (my first cata even) I would bump up Engines (S) and S. Bell (A). But thats only personal preference I guess. :)

TLDR: Wet Magic hates beastmen. In seriousness though, as someone who plays mostly with bots and one other friend who is very good on Legend / Cata, this doesn't completely match my experience. Blightreaper is a pain, but so long as someone is willing to juggle a torch as needed, it's not particularly hard, other than finding the bloody key in the city. Hunger in the Dark is my go-to for new people; I stand by it being the easiest mission. Old Haunts on the other hand I would put in S tier; it's very bloody hard. The constant pressure you're under while doing the gargoyle heads can get overwhelming, especially with bots. I would put Against the Grain higher too (probably at a B+), mostly because fighting hordes in open areas can be a nuisance, and blightstormers can sometimes target you from so far away you can't even ping them. I completely disagree with the reasoning used for putting Convocation and Enchanter's Lair in A tier, though; a mission is as hard as its hardest point. If the team has a high chance of wiping, it doesn't matter whether it's an equal chance through the whole run, or a high chance at a very specific set-piece, the end result is the same.

@omnissiah7859

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah i agree, it doesnt matter if 90% of the map are easy when the end event is so hard on cata that you fail 9/10 times

I've just realized you sound like the tutorial guy from the first Dawn of War game

@WetMagic

3 жыл бұрын

Hey I'll take it haha. Thanks.

bruh convocation not in s teir? fake news bby, fake news

@liberalideas8224

3 жыл бұрын

Ya, I would love to hear from the devs about what they were thinking when designing that end event. How exactly do they think that should play out?

@ModestHandshake

3 жыл бұрын

@@liberalideas8224 i reckon it panned out exactly as expected, endless horde from all directions +specials. doesnt need a nerf imo, just a tricky map

@liberalideas8224

3 жыл бұрын

@@ModestHandshake Fair enough that you feel that way boss, but it bugs me personally. There isnt any strat to it, not like say Skittergate, just stand and survive with no cover, while surrounded on all sides, and fairly harsh visual effects to further disorient you. I do pretty damn well on it while playing something hard hitting and tanky like a grail knight, but get punished pretty hard playing any remotely squishy. Honestly, just easing up on the visual effects might do the trick, but it sticks out like a sore thumb in a game that is so very tactical to just brawl it out recklessly like that.

@ModestHandshake

3 жыл бұрын

@@liberalideas8224 not to sound condecending but you can absolutley leave the circle in the middle, kite n kill some stuff then jump back in :) its hard, but i dont have too much trouble doing it with a decent squad. it takes a little longer but if youre patient its alot easier than trying to do the whole progress bar all in one shot

@alexsitaras6508

3 жыл бұрын

I think people are really starting to figure it out. That and if you have a bounty hunter, grail knight, and shade the end event can be a breeze.

Idk why, but every time I played Dark Omens the Minotaur in the end event singled me out, leaving every other player alone. Also, I feel you overrate the difficulty of Archers, though maybe that is just because I play Sienna.

Personally I love garden of morr. My fav map by far its super pretty the end event isn’t hard but it’s fun and I love going through the maze.

the pit is in e tier for me. its short and easy and you can just run past most of it, or catch the enemies in a bottleneck/doorway. the worst part is either the stairs in the city, or the path with the wooden walls just before the warehouse where there is sometimes a monster spawn. sure, there are three monster spawns on the map, but the other 2 are easy to use terrain to avoid actually fighting.

I think it was my second cata run, we got at least 30 plague monks during the grey seer fight. We got the little shit to 1/3rd health but it was too much.

I think Convocation is actually easy ever since they made it so Rituals can be progressed as long as one person stays in the circle. Before this change, Convocation was SSS+ god tier

Hunger in the dark has been an absolute menace for me to try to beat solo cata (w/ bots). The second patrol/monster spawn is always super inconvenient and all the bots insta die. (Just after you fill the cart with barrels) Then even if you survive the section all your bots are dead and you have to survive the dark section against a horde in a tight space with a bunch of specials. Also the map is huge and pushing the cart slows down your progress by about 75%. It's just miserable. Convocation of decay was nowhere near as tough as hunger in the dark. I beat blight reaper solo on cata as well, without much trouble. It's the tight space on hunger in the dark that just creates a massacre.

@frankwood8567

2 жыл бұрын

I couldn't agree with this more. Hunger in the dark is a hard pass for me. Blight reaper can still be pretty tough though, always struggled a little when hitting the 5 "hidden" switches. Convocation is hard in some spots for sure but it feels like a proper challenge. With practice and knowing where not be stationed, it can be pretty smooth. I'd bump horn of magnus up to A and only haunts to S just for the variety of enemies and the sheer amount of enemies.

Enchanter's Ass is especially hard with randos on qp.

Into the Nest is way harder than D tier; that forge area is brutal and most of my runs with pubs never get past there

While i Will say Dark omens is a hard map if you play handmaiden the end game is so Dam easy as all you have to do is kill the flags and flag beareres(we noticed sometimes the next bearer doesnt spawn if they are not killed) then when 5 of them shows up just kill 1-2 flags and you Can chill

I’d like to see how this list would change if you’re playing solo with bots.

Playing on Cata, found Blightreaper not too bad. Just not a fan of the map. IMO, Enchanter's Lair gave me the most problems out of any map. In pub games we wiped so many times at the Nurgloth fight

Hunger is definitely easier than Empire in quick play imho

@WetMagic

3 жыл бұрын

I can see that. I really just think the dark parts make it a more difficult map though. Probably not a whole lot harder however.

lol, convocation is the only almost certain fail map in quickplay

Difficulty should be rated based on the hardest aspect of the specific map. Because unless you can overcome that, you won't be abel to finish it. (duh) Thus, Skittergate and Convocation are easily S-Tier.

@omnissiah7859

2 жыл бұрын

Whats so hard about Skittergate?

@Hebdrik

Жыл бұрын

@@omnissiah7859 endboss fs

Against The Grain is the easiest map I've found in terms of knowing where the hell I'm going. On so many of these maps, I feel like I'm just stumbling around with no obvious direction.

I'm terrible at remembering names so I have no idea which map is which besides the more obvious ones like skittergate lol. This vid could have desperately need some footage

great vid, i think the easiest end event in the game is dark omens. there's no specials and you don't really even have to fight anything, just destroy the banners

@Hebdrik

Жыл бұрын

there is a minotaur spawn, which can make the banner destruction difficult af

@supermeuhmeuh

Жыл бұрын

I think some classes like HM make that last event pretty easy, imo the hardest parts of the map are those giant open areas where you get harassed by archers constantly. Especially the one with the second grim

wahey its my video suggestion XD

Did they nerf some maps "recently"? I wonder how Screaming Bell is so high up in the list, did it use to be harder than it is now?

@drunkenrage8996

9 ай бұрын

Lots of potential monster spawns in that level tbh. I usually deal with 3 whenever running it and have dealt with F'ing 5 once when I was leveling characters on recruit lol. The level also had a lot of specials for some reason. I run this map the most as I spammed it to level my bots at the cost of my sanity. But with a higher difficulty I can see it being hard as helI. Thing is, it's a really random level tbh

into the nest is really hard when you are trying to true solo imo

If you can just survive in dark omens ending part you'll win. You don't have to kill everything. Still a hard level

Really screaming bell is B? it was the prefered map for people to teach me the game, when i was playing with the old computer with like 20 FPS at the best (completely imposible with that PC thats why i quit the game). Now i have a new computer and i can actually play and enjoy the game. And still feel like its one of the easiest maps, its almost impossible to get lost in this map. Grims and books are easy to find if you know them. While for example other maps are easy to get lost if you play them for first time. EDIT: its also very short map so thats make easier also

@YUZOOOA

Жыл бұрын

The last part of the map in legend/cata difficulty is pure cancerous.

hunger in the dark is super easy. it's extremely easy. so how come whenever i play pubs all of my allies decide to try and explore every nook and cranny, lose the cart, and have to fumble their way around pitch blackness because they don't understand that you NEED TO STICK WITH THE CART. the level 32 kruber should not be this inexperienced that they can get lost and die ON VETERAN DIFFICULTY HUNGER IN THE DARK.

Hunger in the dark sucks if u are a person who always grabs tomes and grims and the rest of ur group is a bunch of rushing noobs. Granted, the grims and tomes in hunger in the dark are not difficult to get and you should stick to ur group even if it means circumventing books but I didn't always think that way and I had to traverse the dark corridors without any light at all with hordes/specials spawning and no clue what direction I was going. Wasn't a fun time. And of course I had to find the tome in there too

I don't completely agree.. For me Enchanters Lair and quiet Drink are definetly S Tier Maps but I think the blightreeper is not as bad as you say. I mean it sucks Yes but as long as you stick together it is not that difficult. Most people die because they Drop at the Dropdown after the gate opens and this is in my opinion the worst thing you could ever do because you have no light, no room and you can't back up at all down there. Just stay up there wait out the cw, plagues etc etc and finish the dark part of the map.

If Dark Omen, Convocation, & Skittergate aren't difficult I need some life advice.

Blightreaper is like A tier maybe, but no way S Tier. Convo has to be in S Tier though, there is no mission i have failed more often on cata than Convo and i actually hate it

Fow is S tier Quiet drink defiently S tier if u play twitch cata

Why is nobody talking about trail of treachery?

@jasonbaijens3378

7 ай бұрын

it wasnt out yet when he made this video

Don't agree with Empire in Flames. Gathering the black powers barrels is a pain and I always get lost trying to find my way out.

Spends C tier talking about how hard they can be, spends A tier talking about how they're actually pretty easy. I jest, good list.

Chaos wastes hype

Quiet drink is the hardest map by far! then Convocation of Decay and enchanters lair. Dark Omens is easy imo.

Quiet Drink got to be S tier

Don't know why fortunes of war isnt included, easily the hardest map.

War camp deserves s tier not for boss but everything else

i would swap dark omen and decay. Dark omen is easy if you just KEEP MOVING

Fortunes of war === SSS+ Tier

In fact - here's a challenge to you dude. Take one map - say Into the Nest. You have to play it back to back with the same players involved but different classes. Do a video on it explaining your perception of difficulty and how it changes particularly how the Skarrik fight goes. First setup: Bounty Hunter, Grail Knight, Shade plus whoever else you want. 2nd Setup Absolutely no Grail Knight, Bounty Hunter or Shade. No class that deletes bosses. Same group of players. Post it on KZread and send it to Fatshark.

@berenoftheedain5133

3 жыл бұрын

While I agree with you technically, I don't think that it is something that needs fixed. The ideal is to plan your team so that you have at least one boss killer also best boss killer doesn't necessarily equal best character. In my opinion once you get to the harder difficultys, monsters and lords aren't offen what kills you. In short, if all classes were "balanced" in boss damage picking a class would be boring.... just play the tankiest one cause they all kill the same and at that point why even have classes? Vermintide 1 is like that and in my opinion it is less repayable.

@eyeball6793

3 жыл бұрын

I’m sorry but gk is a laughable boss killer

Personally I think screaming bell is the easiest map in the game, plus it’s super short.

@Izigurand

2 жыл бұрын

@Thawne then what would you say is?

Old haunts is not that long

@SkyBorik

2 жыл бұрын

It feels long

@twixtwix2915

2 жыл бұрын

@@SkyBorik that’s probably because of the amount of places you go. You got the opening the event after the map then you got the sorta mountain/forest and then the end event. And the end event sadly has been nerfed extremely hard.

Screaming Bell C Festering ground A Athol Yen B Convocation of Decay S Blightreaper A

Honestly the discussion about maps, monsters and bosses is pretty irrelevant - with the exception of Nurglitch - he's just a problem regardless. The biggest issue with balance is the crazy discrepancy between classes. Into the nest is a perfect example. I have played it back to back - one with shade, grail knight and bounty hunter and one without them. One run Skarrik didn't even move before he was dead, one fight lasted 5 mins of running around frantically trying to do any damage to him while avoiding the stormvermin dropping on your head. He can be a real problem with the wrong party. Pretty much applies to every aspect of the game. Fatsharks biggest failing is not maps, bosses, monsters but class balance. It turns maps into a nightmare or a walk in the park.

Look like you missed the secret mission . . . . . . Fortune of War, that require finding 3 runes on each of RtU DLC missions. But ig It would be S tier considering it’s Challenge mission that just Veteran difficulty is very hard enough

@supermeuhmeuh

Жыл бұрын

He said right at the start he wouldn't include it here

@madlysoldier5143

Жыл бұрын

@@supermeuhmeuh Is that so... then I might miss that oof

@supermeuhmeuh

Жыл бұрын

@@madlysoldier5143 he mentioned it at 0:10 😁

@madlysoldier5143

Жыл бұрын

@@supermeuhmeuh God dammit me

Have to disagree. Whenever I get Dark Omens, Enchanter's Lair and Convocation of Decay popping up on quickplay, I get the same reaction: "This could get dicey." When I get Blightreaper my reaction is more on the side of "This is gonna be annoying..." I'd put Enchanter's Lair alongisde Dark Omens and Convocation in S tier, and move Blightreaper to A tier.

Big fan of your videos, but this list just ain’t it