Red Squad is a cautionary tale of what happens when a ship has a crew comprised of Wesley Crushers.

@DrewLSsix

5 жыл бұрын

But... Wesley was a self insert character of Gene Roddenberrys... surely the message isnt that when Gene Roddenberry gains total control of the "ship" his self reinforced ideologies lead to the downfall of the "ship"??? Thats deep man😯

@JeanLucCaptain

5 жыл бұрын

AKA overindulged elitist pricks in way over their heads. how have they possibly survived that long with all the sane people (AKA the commanders) killed is beyond me.

@jacoby1234ification

5 жыл бұрын

I go out of my way to avoid this episode because it was hard to watch just blatant arrogance and pride coming from the cadets not understanding the consequences of there actions also since nog graduated from Starfleet Academy with that means he out ranks the cadets

@schwarzerritter5724

5 жыл бұрын

Talia al Ghoul I would say it is more like what happens when a ship is commanded by Kelvin Kirk.

@DrewLSsix

5 жыл бұрын

@@JeanLucCaptain well, flaws aside I think it was obvious that they were very well trained and very competent at their jobs. The story isnt about a bunch of people that suck, its about a bunch of people that are great but suffer some fatal flaw of character.

as an enlisted officer, Nog would have instantly outranked everyone aboard the Valiant, thus he could have taken command according to the chain of command. He was an ensign, but they were cadets. He outranked them.

@robertt9342

4 жыл бұрын

Yep, but they would never let him take command.

@morganb6717

4 жыл бұрын

perhaps you meant commissioned officer?

@SkepticalChris

7 ай бұрын

no, enlisted. If Nog was Commissioned, he would have been offered a rank. His Ensign rank was not offered, it was earned, therefore he was enlisted.@@morganb6717

@dougc3512

4 ай бұрын

@thesnesman5235 Considering this was during a time of war, it's safe to assume Nog was a Line Officer, so even as an Ensign, not assigned to the Valiant, he could have taken command. This is especially true considering there were no other commissioned officers aboard Valiant, just cadets. But yeah, they were all Lord of the Flies brain scrambled so the would have just thrown Nog in the Brig if he tried to take the Captain's chair...

@paulineb66

13 күн бұрын

Nog was outnumbered and around the same age as the cadets. With their delusional states of mind he likely couldn’t just take over. He lacked gravitas. They needed an adult to take charge.

The whole episode of "Valiant" can be summed up as, "Kids playing with things that aren't toys and hurting themselves."

This episode always drove me nuts! The concept isn't bad but at this point nog is an ensign and all of red squad are cadets. He he became the commanding officer the minute he walked on board.

My take from the episode - Kids playing adults and get killed

@jameslevy8347

5 жыл бұрын

Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.

@chimaican01

4 жыл бұрын

@@MeyaRoseGirl Would have been the future Section 31 operatives

I really like it when Star Trek confronts Starfleet with extreme circumstances and explores how this affects the people serving in it. It's a great tradition started in the original series and carried through all series so far. The valiant is likely my favorite example of this, especially with its focus on the youth of the cadets aboard -how quickly they could be shaped into people unrecognizable to the idealistic starfleet we sometimes see.

"in the end, he was a bad Captain..."

@Maniac742

4 жыл бұрын

To be fair, they were all bad. They all drank the same cool aid and they all died for it. The second in command was particularly stupid.

The Defiant would have succeeded on Valiant's AWOL mission. The Defiant had one advantage over the Valiant: The Sisko.

@Shadothecat

5 жыл бұрын

They also had a senior crew in charge. Sisko wouldnt risk his crew on a gamble like that. The mission was to observe the dominion ship that was twice the size of a galaxy class. It was not to destory it. Multiple times in the series sisko becomes mentally not capable of captaining the ship. That when dax, worf, or Kira take over for him.

@danieldb631

5 жыл бұрын

It's called a joke.

@klein2042

4 жыл бұрын

And a cloaking device

@WaterCrane

4 жыл бұрын

I think Jake said that even Sisko wouldn't have risked such a run at the battlecruiser, especially as there was no order or mission to do that in the first place, just to gather intelligence (and the destruction of the Valiant lost most of that information along with it). Also, another thing that the Defiant prototype had was ablative armour. It is possible that the Valiant had it too, but other episodes hint that this is a rather rare addition, since the captain of the USS Lakota was unaware of this secondary line of defence.

@tonyjackson4078

2 жыл бұрын

The Defiant was also enhanced with plot armor. Except that one time...

Red squad-the only time I inwardly cheer when a starfleet crew gets their asses handed to them

@jameslevy8347

5 жыл бұрын

Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.

Pickard Thought it and I agree, an "Elite" squad of Cadets is not a good idea

@emizerri

4 жыл бұрын

Yup

@thec4fourhundred520

4 жыл бұрын

Nokay.

Red Squad is what happens when you tell a bunch of inexperienced cadets repeatedly how great they are until they lose any and all awareness of their fallibility. They represent a massive failure on the part of Starfleet Academy, as one of the most important parts of being a Starfleet officer is knowing how to face failure.

@admiralsquatbar127

4 жыл бұрын

I don't think these guys had ever faced the Kobyashi Maru test.

@averagegilo

4 жыл бұрын

I think it's more about what happens when you factor in isolation and lack of adult supervision

Incorrect about mission parameters. They were training when war kicked off. Starfleet sent new orders and the fake captain decided to take the mission instead of returning after officers were killed.

@Maniac742

4 жыл бұрын

He also failed to relay that information to Starfleet, which would have ordered the Valiant home had they known that all of the officers on board were dead. Cadet Fuck Face lied in order to maintain his position as captain, and all of his fellow cadets died for it.

It is almost like the episode was a parody of the reboot movies. Deep Space 9 was truly ahead of its time.

The USS Valliant, a Defiant class ship crewed by a gang of Wesly Crushers.

@kazemizu

Жыл бұрын

Worse, by red shirts

Accroding to starfleet protical why full ensign nog not asume direct command of the uss valiant one he was beamed on board? Last time i checked ensign still out ranks catets

@ltnboy25

5 жыл бұрын

True.

@schwarzerritter5724

5 жыл бұрын

Cadet pillpopper was acting captain. That means on his ship he outranks everyone but an admiral.

@TheBigExclusive

5 жыл бұрын

I don't know the exact SF regulations...but I'm guessing Nog may outrank them, but he isn't in the chain of command. He's not their direct superior. And unofficially, I doubt they would listen to Nog if he tried anything. He doesn't have the support of the crew (outside of Jake). Plus, I wouldn't put it passed that crazy teenager Captain to throw Nog outside an airlock if Nog tried to forcibly take command, and just report that "Nog was killed in action". That captain was drunk off his own power. He kept coming up with reasons to stay in the field, and not return to Federation space.

@schwarzerritter5724

5 жыл бұрын

TheBigExclusive *That captain was drunk off his own power.* And stimulants.

@Bryan-pw1rw

5 жыл бұрын

The crew was granted field Promotions, similar to how Wesley was granted a field promotion to full ensign. Better question is around that Dorian character. WHY is she a "Chief Petty officer" when that is a non-commision rank? something that is obtained without going to Starfleet academy and becoming a commissioned officer - she is literally in Starfleet Academy!

This is actually the second appearance of Red Squadron, the first being in DS9's two part Homefront episode. Nog a young cadet freshly arrived at the Academy, is enamored with Red Squad, and wants to join them. This might explain why he is so ready to join them, and isn't so keen on usurping command by trying to pull rank. One of the members of Red Squad in this episode, was in the Homefront episode. In that episode, he confirms that they committed an act of sabotage against the Earth under orders from an Admiral, but he and the rest of Red Squad are mysteriously sent off on a top secret mission before he can testify to this before the President of the Federation. Meaning, this episode is a sequel to Homefront, their mission and radio silence were a ruse enacted by the senior staff that died during their mission, and the deaths of all these cadets was nothing more than a coverup of a failed coup by Starfleet officers. Really makes watching the episode even more fun for me knowing this.

Immensely happy to see a new upload from you. You are easily among the absolute best Star Trek content creators.

New Junkball video? Is it Christmas?!

@HistoricNerd

5 жыл бұрын

God I know right!? Its gonna be a great sunday

@abraxsmith01

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, Yes it is Christmas!

@KirkJacobsonHere

5 жыл бұрын

With one of my favourite underrated youtubers in the comments of one of my other favourite underrated youtubers, it certainly feels like it.

@Gentleman...Driver

5 жыл бұрын

No it is Christmas, Thanksgiving and my birthday on the same day. :)

@john24109

5 жыл бұрын

No but today is

So good to see you back man.

I would so love to see a uss reliant retrospective. It's definitely one of my faves

Yes, really enjoyed this video. Always a lot of fun.

Glad you're back. These are some of the best Trek videos out there.

So happy to see a new video. This is one of my favorite channels on KZread.

Great to have you back.

I am so excited to see a new video! But you already knew that.

Nice to see you back! Look forward to the next one!

As always, so good to see another video from you, Junkball :) brightens my day.

Oh man, I am so glad you are posting again! Cheers!

I love netflix, after watching this, just queue up the Valiant episode and take it from there. Thank you Junkball for all your hard work. I don't know how you do it and get such seemingly random yet precise clips. No idea how you organize yourself, it is astounding.

@JunkBallMedia

5 жыл бұрын

My pleasure.

Thanks Junkball, great to have you back mate!

You’re back AND with a Defiant-class video!!!

Yes this channel coming back makes me sooooooo happy!!!!

YES THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK!!!

I’m so happy you’re making videos again!

Outstanding! Yet another top notch video.

Good lord, this channel is splendid

Junkball has returned! Welcome back man.

Yes! Worth the wait! Keep up the quality content!

did you even watch the episode? 2 mins in and some glaring faults first they weren't in Cardassian space when the war started they were in Federation space but the sector was invaded on day 1 whilst they were in it and they found themselves behind enemy lines, also the original mission of the Valiant was a training cruise circumnavigating the federation however once the war started being the only federation asset in the region they were assigned the intel gathering mission

Great work, JM!

A noticeable continuity error is actually present in the episode, it's said that red squad have had radio silence for a year and are wearing those cadet uniforms, yet a year prior in the war when nog was still a cadet, he was wearing the old cadet uniform, not the new one as featured on red squad, did anyone else notice this? Also nog is made Lt commander which is 3 pips, 2 solid and 1 hollow and yet he only wears 1 solid and 1 hollow, which is Lt junior grade.

@carloharryman

5 жыл бұрын

Radio silence means not sending. Presumably they can still receive data like replicator patterns and other updates.

@jameslevy8347

5 жыл бұрын

Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.

@dca-Letsplay

5 жыл бұрын

Okay that would make sense, but if i recall they believe that the Valiant was lost cause of this radio silence and if it was out of war they'd probably be out looking for them, but in war where any lost ship is practically just another ship when they have a fleet, i doubt they'd send out messages for a ship that may or may not be MIA, i may be wrong so thats just something to think about. assuming they have the replicator patterns to create the new uniforms, i'd assume it'd be the same case as Voyager, for 4 years they were still using pre dominion war uniforms, despite knowing that Star fleet has updated their uniforms, but in that case they had limited replicator ability so they didn't and i argue that would be the case for red squad, and Valiant isn't a long range science vessel like Voyager, Defiant class is much smaller, and was damaged, so i doubt they'd waste power on a uniform change.

@jameslevy8347

5 жыл бұрын

@@dca-Letsplay I agree. What do you think of what I said about what should have happened to Red Squad?

@dca-Letsplay

5 жыл бұрын

You have to remember that the captain of Red Squad was on pills, that was affecting his judgement and they were just kids, not adults with years of experience, they were also under a stressful situation, of course they were going to panic and not think as anyone else starfleet would, they were the top class in starfleet and when you have a captain who is under the influence of drugs, they were bound to follow his example. As for Nog he was graduated after 2 years not 4, there were bound to be lapses in his training and yes maybe he should have been punished but at the same time he didn't make the call, and there was no precedent for a actual Ensign in a situation where someone was made captain despite only being a cadet, so its unknown if he could just take command.

I never understood why Nog didn't pull rank, take command of Valiant, and take it back to Starfleet. Ensign > Cadets.

@Fedaykin24

5 жыл бұрын

He wouldn't of been able to overpower the entire crew, Red Squad have basically gone rogue at this point and clearly beyond reason. He would have been far better served with his full access to Engineering to stall them on repairs and send an encoded transmission back to DS9 for help. Once the Sisko turned uo to save his son in the Pimp Hand it would have been over. In the end these idiots in Red Squad cost Star Fleet a valuable vessel and crewmen when Starfleet was at this point in a fight to the death against the Dominion and could spare neither!

@jameslevy8347

5 жыл бұрын

Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.

@nicolasbazzano2028

5 жыл бұрын

Nog is an Ensign in Star Fleet, Red Squad have been given battlefield promotions to Captain and below, and even Nog was given a battlefield promotion to Commander as Engineer. A battlefield promotion won’t stand up once the kids get back home, they would all be reduced back to probably ensigns just for the experience they’ve acquired in the field, but the battlefield promotion would remain as valid ranks until then. Therefore, the captain is a captain, and outranks Nog, and Nog would be required to follow all lawful orders he is given.

I’ve never clicked on a video this fast!

Glad your back!

THE KING IS BACK BAYBEEEE

Oh my god, I was SO WORRIED ABOUT YOU!!! (And I'm so happy to see you back in the game!) xoxo

@L00PdeL00P

5 жыл бұрын

I think he has a kid now. I'm very happy for him about that.

@mizzmaddieUTube

5 жыл бұрын

Oh, cool! That's awesome. And yeah, we can forgive him for being a good father. ;)

@Gentleman...Driver

5 жыл бұрын

There is no excuse for not uploading videos. :))) (just kidding)

Huzzah you return!

This is a pleasant surprise!

You're back! YES!

The king is back! 😍

Yay, new video! Please don’t leave us again...

You're back!!

FINALLY

YES! Your back! HUZZAH!

Saw that episode yesterday; Just A bunch of kids who thought they could make a BIG splash out of the academy..

What always confused me was that upon coming aboard, Nog should have assumed command, since he was now the ranking officer onboard.

Great to have a new vid on your channel. You didn't mention that Red Squad was on a mission "to circumnavigate the Federation". Must have been a long school year! :-)

@jameslevy8347

5 жыл бұрын

Red Squad are evil cadets and a disgrace to Starfleet. They should have learned that there is no such thing as best of the best and they can't do anything. There should have a story or episode that after what happened to the Valiant that Captain Sisko or Starfleet has given an order to disband Red Squard. Nog should have been kicked out of Starfleet for siding with those traitors on the Valiant. I would have liked a story of the normal Cadets and Red Squard have a war. If that happened Red Squard won't win. Those Red Squad cadets died in disgrace on the Valiant and they have disgraced Starfleet. They should be called Evil cadets. I'm sorry Valiant isn't one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I just want a story that Red Squad gets disbanded.

@MatthewCaunsfield

5 жыл бұрын

@@jameslevy8347 If they "ought to have known" better doesn't that imply that they DIDN'T know any better? And if they didn't know better, how can they be considered "evil", as that suggests a certain deliberateness of malicious intent?

Yes! He’s back!

I always had a lot of issues with this episode. The series of events leading to the cadets being in command of this ship should never have happened. Once the Instructor Captain died, the standing order should’ve been; “You’re responsible for getting your crew home safely, that’s your mission now.” Relayed by the computer. I think this actually was the case and the cadets disobeyed that order. It’s not stated how many non-cadet NCO’s were aboard, but had they a Chief or Senior Chief that NCO could’ve taken command. While Nog was a cadet on DS9, he had to follow O’Brians instructions. Had they replaced Jake with O’Brian, I think he would’ve been able to bring Red Squad up short.

Really good video

Awesome, glad to see new videos

I quite liked how some of the LCARS displays were upside down (as in the background at 5.23)

yay your back!

Welcome back!! Yasss!

YES! YOU'RE BACK!!!!!

Aww Yiss a new retrospective!

I enjoyed this episode, but it's always been kind of astonishing that Starfleet would give one of its state-of-the-art warships to the Academy as a training vessel. And not just any type of ship: The Defiant Class was particularly finicky--overpowered and underbuilt. A very dangerous environment for students, even if they are the best of the best. It's much more plausible to give an old ship to cadets to train on, like the old Class J ship that nuked Captain Pike, or the Enterprise itself, which was an old, outdated ship by the time it was serving as a training vessel during the events of Wrath of Khan.

@chimaican01

4 жыл бұрын

Should have been an Excelsior class (though those were constantly being retrofitted) or a more believable Nova class starship. It's just unfortunate though that this episode was made in 1998 whereas the USS Equinox that debuted on Voyager in 1999, which means the model probably wasn't made yet. The show could have pulled any number of old small ship designs from the TNG though that would have been more plausible, like the Miranda class (where Sisko was the Commander at Wolf-359) that dates all the way back from ST2: Wrath of Khan.

Concerning the command star symbol that's a part of the red squad logo - you said it hasn't been on screen since TOS, but I just noticed it verrrrrry small in the DS9 episode "Behind the Lines" that I just happened to be watching just now. It's on the back of a PADD Admiral Ross gives Sisko - as a part of a Starfleet logo (the round one that looks just like the new Space Force logo). I've never noticed logos on PADDs before just now, but I thought it was interesting.

Nice video.

Finally a new video :D

My first new Junkball since subscribing a while back! Yay!

Well done!

Thank you. That Tom Paris thing pissed me off so much.

@BrotherDerrick3X

4 жыл бұрын

That wasn't Tom Paris. It was a different character, who happened to be played by Robert Duncan McNeil.

Yaaaaaaayyyy new videooo :D

i think the dumbest thing about that episode was nog didnt slap those cadets down and take control of the ship as he was an actual officer

Great video, man! Thanks a lot for it! Do you have any closer information of the new upcoming TV series with Patrick Steward as Picard again? And will you make a video for it?

Damn right I clicked on the video. It's always the guud stuff. More please xx

This is a welcome surprise.

Hey man, love your videos. I love to see a video about the sonic showers shown in voyager. how do they work?

Love you Junkball!!

Thank you so much, I was having a really awful day, my wife left me for my brother and my kids hate me. Plus, my house burned down and I lost my job. Someone stole my car. My dog died and I’m dying... none of that is true but thank you for the awesome video.

One of the last true Trek channels.

A Video!!! Thank you :)

Also in the new Trek movies Kirk not only gets better results but next movie has him getting a dose of humility, basically left to their own devices the cadets here (not just the Captain) let themselves fall into a feedback loop of "we can do anything" and I'm pretty sure didn't fully appreciate that they were in a war now...example not returning to base after their mission and trying to earn "extra credit" as it were despite the fact starfleet could have most certainly used another Defiant class back in it's main fleet and not out there being taken on a joy ride by a bunch of cadets.

I liked the ending when they all bit the dust.

Where have you been? Great video, as always.

I remember at the end of the episode, Jake telling Nog that his father was a much better commander than the guy on the Valiant. Then I remember in the very next season, his father getting the Defiant blown to bits while sitting around helplessly.

@Grayvorn

2 жыл бұрын

At least it was hit by a weapon nobody saw coming. I guess someone should have been keeping an eye on the Breen lol!

I watched this episode this morning and it was a sombre reminder of the dangers of blindly following a cult leader caught up in his own delusion of grandeur.

Yey, please don't stop

Is been a long *time* getting from there to here

You forgot to mention that Red Squad had already been mentioned in an earlier episode of DS9... Homefront/Paradise Lost. The helmsman of Valiant was actually featured in that episode (Riley Aldrin Shepard).

Did anyone else notice that when Nog was given a(n almost certainly illegitimate) field promotion to "Lt Commander", his pips indicate Lieutenant Junior Grade?

Welcome back. Will you feature other one off ships in future episodes too?

nog should have taken command. he was actually the highest ranked. he actually graduated the academy and had a rank and commission.

When watching the episode, I saw it as teenagers being stupid. However, there was a review that pointed out the big weakness. The adults had made just as many stupid ambitious decisions, but with the fact that they were the main protagonists of a tv series, they were protected by plot armor.

Another difference not mentioned in the video, the Valiant's LCARS screens were different than those of the Defiant, and every other federation starship out there.

The best way to attack a Ship that much larger than yourself like that is to use Jake's Runabout as a lure (if they still have it) [ if it even fits inside the ship - or did they blow it up ?? ] or tow it along with you. Then find everything you can to rig some anti-matter bombs and find a way to disguise them - then when they show up to capture or replace or kill Jake - (as they'd know who The Sisko is) they do a 'Blackstar' on them. AND BOOOM !! I'd not say it's a good idea for anything less than 3 Defiant class ships to attack one of those Battle Cruisers. You'd also want Quantum Torpedoes & surprise too. The way they respond to commands and move is barely adequate to respond to the superior dominion command interface. They'd have to finagle the plot to not have them swap the Defiant Class like a fly - the best they can hope for is perhaps do one of the old tricks which is find out where the good guys fleet is - then find the Battle cruiser shoot at it then run like hell to the rest of the fleet and hope they chase you. But with no cloak they have a lot less of the advantages the actual Defiant has.

It brought me a strange, sick sense of satisfaction when I watched Res Squad get wiped out. XD

Red squad is also a recruitment program for section 31 confirmed in the kelvin time line

Nice.