🍺Update🍺 In the current live version, enlisting Isscar the Sellsword costs 1000 Gold/8 hours (apologies, we mixed up some footage. Too much ale)! 🟡How Patron Recruitment really works: kzread.info/dash/bejne/rJaZzLqshNrdk6Q.html 🟡All Recruitable Named T4 Patrons: kzread.info/dash/bejne/eZmVrK-lpbizpZs.html

@imavarua2490

7 ай бұрын

you did something special for recruit t4 for 500 ? Because lian and luba ( dancer) visit my tavern but i cant recruit them, no dialogue window they just seat like 90 % other npc. Or this is just luck one time you can one time not ?

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

It seems luck, but can't confirm that yet as we personally haven't found a hireable T4 yet either. All that visited us were non-hireable, so it seems to be very rare. However, we know of some people having gotten some, but again, very rare.

@imavarua2490

7 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave ty for info) Merry Christmas

@SicariiDTenebris

7 ай бұрын

​@@PixelcaveI got Daicas the Sharp to spawn in my tavern, 500 gold to hire. Took multiple screenshots if that helps but can confirm they can be hireable. Also got a Nordheimer Berserker to visit, but couldn't hire. But nice blast from the past.

The tavern was an excellent update. I built an eating area in my base during the Age of Sorcery, and it was so lonely as a single player. Now, it’s bustling with patrons. They just sit, but I added performers to provide movement. So, it feels lively.

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

That's great to hear! It's indeed so nice to have a little bit of "life" in the base - and if they really expand on the Tavern and Follower placement system, we might even get thralls that play music one day, which would be awesome!

@Kavas

3 ай бұрын

Or sing like in dragon age 3 where you pay a coin

Saw a tavern with 8 bars and bar keepers... The place was booming... Multiple hirable thralls.. ❤

Great idea with waterfall behind your bar. Awesome. I do fancy stuff like this too.

@Pixelcave

4 ай бұрын

Thank you, it turned out quite well. Also looks great at night as we added some torches that color the water stream.

I like how we can put Tcho Tcho pets and undead and legacy skeles on bar stool. I feel like the game mocks you when a t4 thrall walks in and cannot be hired. I even found the OG Captain legacy thrall.

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Tcho Tcho followers! That's a great idea! And waiting for the hireable T4 thrall... just to probably miss it 😄

Yay!! Absolutely freaking awesome!! Thank you! 🥰😉🤗

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Another great video has usual thanks ;)

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Thanks!

you got my subscribe and thumbs up. I love this system, it brings life to the game and make it more belevable.

@Pixelcave

4 ай бұрын

Thanks so much for your support! Yes, the Tavern System is indeed a great addition and we can't wait to see what else awaits us in future updates.

Thanks, needed to know radius to build my bar!

@Pixelcave

5 ай бұрын

Great to hear our guide was helpful! Thank you!

@3:00 I bet if you're an offline player that several days translates into never unless you're willing to leave your game running for a few days. @8:50 Oh, that's interesting. They don't usually give much consideration to the mechanics in single player. Maybe they'll get around to fixing the star metal meteor showers some day as well.

Very informative !

@Pixelcave

4 ай бұрын

Thank you!

The Stygian war drums and horns will allow you to place thralls at them so your base can always have some sounds.

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Oh, so they have changed that then, it wasn't possible when they were added to the game initially. Nice!

So freakin cool with some of these ideas

Super Guide. Help me a lot

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Glad to hear it - thank you!

Interesting!

They need to give the thralls the option to patrol. I stopped playing after they weakened the thrall because im a solo player. It take a lot of time to level them up while been killed in 5 seconds. At least put a trainingcamp. So they level themself up by putting them in a training building. Now i dont even want to make them while that was the only reason i was playing this game.

@greenchilistudioz4537

5 ай бұрын

Plus they need to balance them with how armor works on them, sucks that they all expect to wear heavy armor only, let alone all use single one handed mace cause of ai and "meta" reasons that can be stupid.

thank you, my question was answered

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Glad to hear it, thanks!

The best feature in this update. I found a names thrall.

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Oh, congratz, which one did you get?

It seems like those cages in the yog camps might me like a good place to rescue some thralls.

Got a female barkeeper and named Dancer and Archer in my first level three purge, when the people started to show up I got some guy named The Prowler and turned him into my angry drunk guy and the Pub in my castle has chairs in the throne room and bathroom and upstairs bedroom and people set in waiting and no one has sat on my throne or the thrones in the bathroom.........yet. I used the bar placement to take advantage of the seating radius of the bar. Fun stuff. Hope they run with this.

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Oh wow, what a lucky Purge result! We also had some Thrones in our Tavern and no one wanted to sit on them, but in our case we thought they might have been outside the radius. That's interesting though, maybe the NPCs won't use them - let us know if they do in your Castle!

I like it. It does indeed bring more life to a base. Now the gold cost...... better be grinding alot. Or a low pop server.

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Fortunately Gold is much easier to obtain nowadays than before, but yes, it can be a grind as anything else. If you're unlucky with loot, maybe some good old rounds of diving around Buccaneer Bay can help to stock up on Gold.

@lilith1902

7 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave did they nerf rocknose pet gold farm?

9:29 with that view on the lake i would have sat there the same... or he's doing a classic Riker Maneuver (the TRUE one where he sits)

@Pixelcave

3 ай бұрын

😆

I wonder if/when Funcom will add tavern sound/music with a small radius (to the Bazaar)? Also found that you have to leave the door(s) to the tavern open or customers would just wander about outside the tavern. Would be a lot of fun if there was a 10% chance of some thralls getting drunk and disorderly and turning aggressive?

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

The part with the music is answered at 8:58. Beyond that, I don't think they have plans to add Tavern Music - potentially more sounds, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Good point with the doors, we totally forgot about that - I actually thought they'd teleport to the seating if they can't reach it. A random chance for thralls to behave differently would be fun as well, but probably too chaotic!

Can we only change barkeeper armor with mods? I can't find the option to change my barkeeper's armor.

@Pixelcave

6 ай бұрын

You have to take the Bar Keeper off the Bar Counter in order to access their inventory - then change armor like with any other thrall. Once you changed the armor, you can put them back at the counter.

That guy wasn’t sitting the wrong way, he just wanted the water view instead

@Pixelcave

6 ай бұрын

😄

What is that waterfall behind counter? Looks awesome

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

It's the water that comes down from the Aqueduct at The Breach in the Highlands. And thanks! We were thinking of making a video of the Tavern separately if it could be of interest.

Alecave! 😄 Thank you for this helpful tutorial. You answered a lot of my questions. You can hire Isscar for 50g/1day? My Isscar wants 8000gold for only 8 hours oO Funny thing: I had an end table from a mod, I put a planter/pot on it. But the patrons seam to like it as a stool. Now I have regularly sitting patrons inside my flowerpot.🤷‍♀

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Apologies, Isscar is 1000 Gold/8 hours,, seems we recorded that clip in an outdated version. And thank you, glad you found the guide helpful! Make sure to water your flowers regularly 😂

@lukrezialaval2406

7 ай бұрын

😂 I am sure the patrons will appreciate that. 😄

Nice - lvl 4 purge, I got the barkeep, t4 Bearer and mei the blade, named lemurian female fighter. So it's possible to get t4s in low difficulty purges

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Oh, very nice results, congratz!

@zaidmohammad757

7 ай бұрын

@Pixelcave thanks and for the guide also!

Today, my tavern had a T4 fighter, Frigga Falsehope. She was not for hire and had 75 HP.

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

What a lucky day... for Frigga. 😄

@TALON-7

7 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave LOL

So by having a Taverns is a good way to make golds and silvers?

Dunno if you were putting archers as part of fighters when you brought up the types that you can hire but if not, archers are also hireable in the tavern✌️

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Yes, we were referring to Archers and Fighters when talking about the Fighter Class. It seems that's a bit confusing for some and we could have been better at explaining it - we'll specify that clearer next time! Thanks nonetheless for confirming! 👍

@keaboyy

7 ай бұрын

@Pixelcave aah I see haha no worries👌 I figured you "obviously" knew, but yea some people may not realize it, especially new players and considering the slight issues with the tavern and npc's visiting the tavern. I mean its to be expected with newly added stuff so it's cool. Plus theres alot of mixed info out there about people having a hard time seeing names or tiers etc.. so above all, this video really clears the air for alot of people. I was one of them that was wondering so I thankyou friend for this

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Thank you! And yes, there's a lot of info out there and a lot of it isn't that easy to verify. We try to be as thorough as possible with these guides, but there's so much to cover, it's easy to miss something - or even to make a mistake. Always good to hear feedback from others!

So a question that I have is if the player has hired the Sellsword guy and he is in the tavern, can out of clan players interact with him to buy things. You covered that out of clan can't "summon" him but can they interact with him if there?

@Pixelcave

4 ай бұрын

Good question, that's something we haven't tried yet. I would say by logic out of clan members shouldn't be able to interact, but logic doesn't always apply to game mechanics in CE. Maybe someone else here in the comments has tried it and can let us know?

来了来了🥰🥰🥰👍

Does bar locatin affects the type of tribe of thralls that appear in the bar? Because I never saw Forgotten Clan warriors in my tavern on the noob river

@DavidThornbecker-rd6oy

7 ай бұрын

I have 3 taverns running currently on an official server. One is on Noob river and I've noticed that tavern seems to have lower ranked thralls. It might be RNG but I don't know

@TheMonetary

7 ай бұрын

All rng, doesnt matter where your bar is.

Can you keep doors closed so other players can't enter

my question is about the bear cub that is at level 55 in the battle pass how does it fit into the bed spot of the Aesir bar?

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Unfortunately it doesn't. We confirmed back with the developer as we also thought it could be placed in there, or at least assigned. Behaviour wise it's also more like the other small house pets, it walks around as it pleases and doesn't follow either.

@whazuesicefang5001

7 ай бұрын

interesting because in the devs live stream it showed the bear cub laying on the bed@@Pixelcave

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

@@whazuesicefang5001 We thought so as well, but rewatched it and they never showed it in there - but there is artwork on the website and socials that shows it. Artwork, mind you, not in-game screenshots. That's also why we asked the devs about it and they confirmed it's not a current functionality, but maaaaybe they add it in future (I wouldn't count on it, at least not any time soon, seeing how many other things they have to fix/work on).

Wish we could assign seats to the tavern instead of it them just invading any chair in my base!

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Hehe, I see what you mean. In that case, since the radius of the bar counter isn't that big, I'd suggest building a tavern a bit on the outside/adjacent of your base. Then they'll only go there and leave your main base alone.

@thecommenter9678

7 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave That is currently my only option. I'll need to construct it at the foot of the hill near the base of the stairs going up to my base. It will make for a nice project. Sad though, i have a tavern built into my castle and it's decorated to the nines.

I just got back into this game so am pretty clueless about most of the new stuff. My base currently is on a plateau and the only entrance is an elevator. Will that hinder the tavern functionality?

@Pixelcave

2 ай бұрын

HI there! It shouldn't stop you from getting Tavern Patrons - they usually pop up close to your Tavern or inside your base (depending how big), but don't need to reach it from far away. As long as they can reach the seating and nothing blocks their path too much, it should be fine. Haven't tested a plateau yet, just put down a Bar Counter with Barkeeper and see if anything happens throughout the day - let us know, we're curious!

@Tachynon

2 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave Just tested it. Can confirm the NPCs just techno-magically appear in the tavern, including Xil. Getting the purge with the barkeep to work is another issue though. If an elevator is the only entrance and there isn't enough space for the purge base to spawn on the same ground level as your base, it cannot trigger.

@Pixelcave

2 ай бұрын

That's good to know, thanks for sharing! And indeed, Purges are a completely different beast - even in a large, flat area there are constantly issues with Purges not triggering. So on a plateau it's unlikely to work as you said. However, you could always build a secondary Purge outpost where you place your coffer.

@Tachynon

2 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave Yeah.. That's one workaround. Or I might forgo the elevator and build a winding stairwell with defences. Keep up the great work with the guides and breakdowns.

Is there a way to block certain chairs / seating to keep the patrons from spawning there?

@Pixelcave

3 ай бұрын

Hm, I don't think there really is, as they kind of teleport onto the seats. Haven't tried everything, like obstructing the path, but the only thing I could think of, would be placing your own thralls on seats to block them - but that isn't really a solution if you want them "free". Only removing the Barkeeper would stop them.

@wolfman7284

3 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave Seems that way. I put a pillow to block it, but the thrall just materialized in the pillow haha. I think you're right though, nothing to be done right now. Thank you for taking the time to answer!

@Pixelcave

3 ай бұрын

Forgot about the pillows - yes, we tested that as well. Worth a shot but sadly not an option.

Our tavern had Varpnir before 2 days on Siptah, but we cannot hire him :(

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Yes, it seems these Named Thralls play hard to get, we also didn't get any. Hopefully you'll find some hireable soon!

How did you finish the battlepass already

@shintenkai1648

7 ай бұрын

Offline admin mode + legendary bsttle pass mission gives you like 5 levels at a time with the bonus.

I had a t4 entertainer thrall show up in my tavern who was hireable and I didn't have enough gold to hire him at the time... Sad Day... 😭

@Pixelcave

3 ай бұрын

Oh no... that's really super bad luck! Only Crom knows when the next shows up again... crossing fingers for you!

Ran into a bug where it won't allow me to actually put the barkeep behind the bar, when I try to slot them it it keeps saying 'must be placed on walkable floor'. Any suggestions for how to fix that?

@Pixelcave

4 ай бұрын

Oh, this bug is so annoying. I don't have any easy for solution for it as it usually fixes itself after a while or a few relogs, but it's really unclear what causes/fixes it. One thing we noticed is that it usually happens if spawns are stuck at the famous 0,0 coordinates. Last time that happened to us, was when visiting Patrons got stuck there, but even flying there as admin didn't help as we couldn't admin kill the stuck spawns either. Might be a good question to share in the forum to see what others might have come up with.

@Jwsponky

4 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave I thank you for actually responding, but... bugger that is mildly inconvenient.

@Pixelcave

4 ай бұрын

Indeed. If you find anything, please do share! 🙂

@Jwsponky

4 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave 👍

@Jwsponky

4 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave Another question occurs, is there any specific setting you need to have thralls on for them to man the siege cauldrons? I have some over my fort's gates stocked with full stacks of tar, but when the purge hits the fighter thralls I set to man them just tun about the ramparts trying to use melee weapons on the enemies three floors below them...

Sadly can't get purges to work on my single player, but used admin to get a barkeep anyway. 😂

@Pixelcave

3 ай бұрын

Is it that the Purge doesn't want to spawn due to not finding a suitable location or don't you get any error message?

@DirectorKane

3 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave at first yes with "unreachable", but found an area near the rhinos where the camp does setup, just doesn't spawn enemies.

@Pixelcave

3 ай бұрын

That's bizarre, never had that one happen... always something new. Wondering if that's related to the latest update.

@DirectorKane

3 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave I assume it's a bug with single player or maybe a mod, but as far as I know none of my mods touch purges spawn function.. Also can't get any of the Ch4 event NPCs to spawn besides the tavern guy. 🤣

Has anyone come across the issue of the patrons not spawning at all?

@elizabethlestrad5282

4 ай бұрын

No, but I have come across an issue of NPCs spawning outside my tavern. I had to completely remove the doors and door frames for them to go inside. Kinda breaks immersion.

archers and probly bearer can be hired ion tawern

@Pixelcave

6 ай бұрын

Fighters (which includes Archers) and Entertainers are the only Patrons that can currently be hired.

Funcom needs to up the recruitment percentage opportunity chance to at least 25%. I'm disappointed in a 10% recruitment rate. 50% or more would be nice, even if they have to double the hiring cost.

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Agreed, especially since you won't be always going through your Tavern frantically checking all NPCs and if they are recruitable...

Do i have to pay for the Chapters? Or are they free updates?

@Pixelcave

5 ай бұрын

The Chapters are free, including any bigger new game features - like in this case the Tavern System, gameplay tweaks, etc. Every Chapter (which lasts approx. 3 months) there's also a new Battle Pass, which is - except for a few freebies - paid. And of course the stuff in the in-game store costs real money too. But the actual content updates are free.

@dgage1776

5 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave OK cool. I have the vanilla game coming in the mail, because I'm old school I guess haha. I've heard that the original has a few better features like a better stamina system. Should I just download all the updates, or play the original as it was made?

@Pixelcave

5 ай бұрын

Hey, some people love to collect physical game copies. 🙂 Since it's an online game there's only one version, so whenever an update is released for PC or console, you get it. The only optional additions are the expansion (Isle of Siptah) which is kind of a separate game as you can't travel between the maps, as well as DLC or Bazaar cosmetic content.

@dgage1776

5 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave You scared me there for a second because I have really slow internet. But I looked it up and apparently you only need the internet to log in and prove that you own the game and what not and then you can just play offline. Or that's what chatgpt says so I guess I'll find out

@Pixelcave

5 ай бұрын

If you don't play on official servers, but in single-player mode only, you should be able to play offline after the initial login and connection to Funcom Live Services. But what I wanted to say, is that you won't be able to avoid updates for the game, you will be forced to download them if there are any. (In offline mode you also won't have access to items from the Battle Pass and Bazaar/in-game store as this requires constant connection to Funcom Live Services).

I found a Janos at my bar, and can confirm he cost 500 coins

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Ah nice, thanks for confirming! 👍

@AurioDK

4 ай бұрын

But is that a one time cost or do you have to keep paying him? ... is it time limited? Some are talking ridiculous amounts of gold for only 8 hours.

@Sacrentice

4 ай бұрын

@@AurioDK hhuh

@Sacrentice

4 ай бұрын

@@AurioDK you pay once to buy them forever. I think you're thinking of Iscaar, to summon him for 8 real life hours to your base

@AurioDK

4 ай бұрын

@@Sacrentice Thanks, good to know. Yes, I was confused, thought Iscaar was just another fighter ... but he is a vendor.

Is funcom planning to fix the tavern bug with non-hirable thralls or this another "feature" they introduced in the chapter of bugs (combat, camels, demolishers, stacked foundations) along with everything else to meet their contractual obligations and milk out the chaos of their in-game transactions for turkish, chinese and russian PvP kids?

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

I believe not being able to hire every thrall who comes to your Tavern is intended, some are simply decoration, some can be hired. Now, the % of thralls that are hireable or the rare chance of finding a hireable T4, that's a whole other question, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are going to tweak it.

@whazuesicefang5001

7 ай бұрын

they will be having a chapter 4 for age of war to be used as a chapter that i to fix alot of the bug issues that comes with the chapters 1-3 of the age that they are part of

@aresgalamatis7022

7 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave I hope it wasn't intended, because that makes me worried about game designer(s) working for the game. They should understand that having non-hireable thralls (1) creates a lot of lag without any reward and (2) having a good T4 come in only to see that you can not hire them is very frustrating... genius :/

@aresgalamatis7022

7 ай бұрын

@@whazuesicefang5001 I hope you are right, but I doubt it. Anything official I heard from the trio that communicates their plans is that they are extending the age of war into a 4th chapter, because they didn't want to deliver bugged features. A month later though we got the 3rd chapter where all new feature were bugged. Granted though, delaying might be what devs/designers wanted to avoid this mess, but managers/decision-makers pushed for the release.

We need tavern music

Its good, still... Mostly Money Milking, Need battlepass and bazar for rearly get it nice :(

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

On console yes, that's very true. But on PC you have so many options with mods, you don't need the BP or Bazaar to get great items and more.

I have 3 Barkeeps and none of them have any contacts to hire

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

For now there is only 1 contact that can be hired, Isscar the Sellsword, but you have to free him from a Purge first, otherwise he won't show up in the Enlist Contacts menu.

Nice guide, too bad, that you can't hire archers thou.

@whazuesicefang5001

7 ай бұрын

actually on my single player server on my PS4 i got to hire a T2 archer it just didn't specify archer nor fighter because it said T2 zamorian exile where i had a fighter show T2 Zamorian fighter so archers are hireable but just seems to not show until you hire them

@zalgofhtagn5371

7 ай бұрын

@@whazuesicefang5001 , well, as for now, it looks like some good purge archers for the early game, like Grigg of the Desert and Zara the Crazed aren't available (you can find them in the cage thou, but chances are too low). So i was hoping, that you can hire them in your tavern.

@whazuesicefang5001

7 ай бұрын

any named thralls i have yet to find in my single player tavern just T2 thralls 1 archer among the 8 that have been hireable i mostly got T2 dancers 2 T2 fighters and 1 T2 archer so it has to be pretty low chance @@zalgofhtagn5371

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

You can get Archers, Funcom just classes Archers as Fighter Thralls (they were classed the same at the Obolus Slave Traders where you could either buy Crafters or Fighters, which included Archers). Apologies if that was confusing!

Sur ps5 impossible de prendre les nommés 😡

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Hey, we haven't found one either yet! So it's not just on PS5, it's just really really rare. Fingers crossed they will adjust this a little.

@younsdom1452

7 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave non moi j’en ai deux impossible de les prendre Sarnai l épine ( archer ) et deirdre sememort ( combattant ) rien a faire on peux pas les acheter

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Yes, that's the same for everyone. Some Named Thralls will appear in your Tavern, but they are just "decoration" - you can't hire them. It's luck if you find one that CAN be hired, like with all other Tiers. Let's see if it stays like this.

@younsdom1452

7 ай бұрын

J espère fancom va arrangé ça 👍

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Nous aussi!

Can't move the Barkeep without the game crashing. Archer posts will sometimes not let you place a Thrall. Lots of Lag and Framerate drops all over the map. Siege Cauldrons don't do any damage. This is a very buggy update and Funcom needs to fix it ASAP.

I've had many named thralls so up and can't recruit them bar system trash

Too bad funcom is not trustworthy. They probably let the tavern system die and find something new to half ass it

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

That's always a possibility. I'm still waiting for new Spells and Golem improvements. Let's see what the 4th Chapter will bring to the Tavern System.

Yeah there alot of inaccurate info 8n this videos

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

If you could give some examples, that would be helpful.

@steezwts9093

7 ай бұрын

​@@Pixelcave I don't think I meant to leave this comment here. I rewatched the video and the only thing I found inaccurate was about the radius and more than one bar. We saw a crazy build with tons of thralls so we tested it . For us the more bars the more people, over lap didn't matter. I always watch your vids man. You're usually my first go to when I'm looking at Conan content

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

No worries, always helpful to get some feedback - but we need to know what it is. 😄 I think you misunderstood what we said in regards to multiple bars - you do of course get more thralls the more bars you have, but you won't get more thralls on the seats that are within the overlap of multiple bars. Not saying we get everything right every time, but in this case, this and the info about the approx. 6 foundation radius around the bar have both been confirmed by the developers. And thank you so much for tuning in to our videos, as mentioned above, feedback, suggestions, etc. are always welcome! Hope you guys are getting some good T4s from your Tavern!

@steezwts9093

7 ай бұрын

@@Pixelcave not a single one and we have 60 seats now 😆

@Pixelcave

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, we had hundreds visiting with various bar counters, nothing either. Crom really doesn't care it seems 😄