Hey curious do you have pitch adjustments in dsp because home dsp people are changing the 440hz tuning frequency to 432hz which it said is better
@CarAudioEnthusiasts
2 ай бұрын
you can set any slider to any frequency, on most decent EQs in DSP
@bbfoto72488 ай бұрын
@bennyblanco14 After setting your time alignment, raising or lowering the Levels for each channel so that they are balanced is just an overall "rough" or general starting point. After balancing all the left and right levels, if you do not use the Independent Left & Right EQ as he describes, you will still have a frequency-dependent center image that drifts/shifts/wanders to the Left or Right when particular notes are played by an instrument or vocalist. The process he is using tightens up and brings the center image into sharper focus AT ALL FREQUENCIES and eliminates the frequency dependent shift or drift to the left or right and the lack of pinpoint focus in the center and across the Soundstage. Once you have the entire frequency range balanced from Left to Right with his process, with a good DSP, you can then LINK the Left & Right EQ channels together while maintaining their "unequal" relationship (i.e. keeping the Left channel at 250Hz raised by +1.5dB and the Right lowered by -1.5dB). Once the Left & Right EQ is linked, you can then adjust your OVERALL Frequency Response to match your Target Curve or overall preferred spectral balance (tonality). My only word of caution is not to boost any given frequency more than 3dB IF that boost does not result in an appropriate Audible or Measureable difference. If you boost and there is no change, that means there is a destructive interference Cancellation Null at that particular frequency At Your Listening Position that no amount of EQ or additional power will solve. If you do this, you'll just be sending more power to that particular speaker and overdriving it, risking damage to it and adding distortion with no benefit to the sound. You just have to live with that cancellation null unless you can (safely) use another speaker or the subwoofer to fill it in. Watch the "Erin's Audio Corner" video about "Using Your Subwoofer to Improve your Midbass." Due to the dimensions of the interior of the vehicle, most will have several unavoidable cancelation nulls between about 70Hz-90Hz and another null around 180Hz-220Hz. This is the result of the wavelength at those frequencies and the distance between the two doors or left and right speakers or to the large center console/transmission hump in some vehicles.
@ah48008 ай бұрын
So this would be the process if you dont have any form of an rta? I bought the audio tools app and a dayton calibrated microphone. It helped to target the problem frequecies and cut those to get a relatively flat curve. I just finished a tuning session. That said ive never even heard a properly tuned and centered vehicle, im going by what sounds proper to me. My twk88 takes physical measurements in inches and converts it to milliseconds delay and it gets it sort of close, but i need to adjust the level trim quite significantly to get it centered. Should i be adding additional delay, or trimming the levels to get it centered?
@CarAudioEnthusiasts
8 ай бұрын
yes this can sortof replace an rta, and yes you can use levels to fine tune the center stage , like i explained in the video. just reflect the same changes on each side, -1 db down on right +1db on left. this maintains the overall tune.
@ah4800
8 ай бұрын
@@CarAudioEnthusiasts how fine is fine tune? I've got like a 4 or more db difference in trim levels side to side for my tweeters and I think even more for the mod range
@bennyblanco148 ай бұрын
I personally just raise or lower the each channel so that they all match DB..if you did your TA correctly, that is all that really needs to be done....adjust the EQ is not a good way to center if you are tuning..
@bbfoto7248
8 ай бұрын
@bennyblanco14 After setting your time alignment, raising or lowering the Levels for each channel so that they are balanced is just an overall "rough" or general starting point. After balancing all the left and right levels, if you do not use the Independent Left & Right EQ as he describes, you will still have a frequency-dependent center image that drifts/shifts/wanders to the Left or Right when particular notes are played by an instrument or vocalist. The process he is using tightens up and brings the center image into sharper focus AT ALL FREQUENCIES and eliminates the frequency dependent shift or drift to the left or right and the lack of pinpoint focus in the center and across the Soundstage. Once you have the entire frequency range balanced from Left to Right with his process, with a good DSP, you can then LINK the Left & Right EQ channels together while maintaining their "unequal" relationship (i.e. keeping the Left channel at 250Hz raised by +1.5dB and the Right lowered by -1.5dB). Once the Left & Right EQ is linked, you can then adjust your OVERALL Frequency Response to match your Target Curve or overall preferred spectral balance (tonality). My only word of caution is not to boost any given frequency more than 3dB IF that boost does not result in an appropriate Audible or Measureable difference. If you boost and there is no change, that means there is a destructive interference Cancellation Null at that particular frequency At Your Listening Position that no amount of EQ or additional power will solve. If you do this, you'll just be sending more power to that particular speaker and overdriving it, risking damage to it and adding distortion with no benefit to the sound. You just have to live with that cancellation null unless you can (safely) use another speaker or the subwoofer to fill it in. Watch the "Erin's Audio Corner" video about "Using Your Subwoofer to Improve your Midbass." Due to the dimensions of the interior of the vehicle, most will have several unavoidable cancelation nulls between about 70Hz-90Hz and another null around 180Hz-220Hz. This is the result of the wavelength at those frequencies and the distance between the two doors or left and right speakers or to the large center console/transmission hump in some vehicles.
@bennyblanco14
8 ай бұрын
@bbfoto7248 awww great response.... I have a huge null between 70-90 for the longest but when I switched from ported 2 12s to a single sql15 sealed which actually help fill that null and also able to bring the sub upfront.. But, let's go back to what you stated about what you explained now actually makes sense to me.. I know what your saying how the center tends to shift ... I spent hours picking a part every single speaker trying to get it to stay centered ...it wasn't bad like it drifted far left but to me, it was very noticeable. I might try this method, trying to get ready to compete next year I been in the SQ side for 3 years now after 20 years of spl. I can not express this enough, tuning is a complete headache 😫... I used to think building certain boxes so that they fit or install was bad enough..ha!!.. Tuning will have you pull out your hair...not to mention, there is so much to learn, especially trying to understand how to use rew, thank God I have a Helix, it's very user friendly A great page to check out on Facebook if you ever need help with tuning is RTA IN CARS and Strictly Sound Quality. A great SQ youtube channel I like to watch is RAW CAT, he does a great job explaining tuning aswell and if your into knowing more about distortion a good Facebook page to check out is Distortion Factory Thanks for the help, very appreciated
@bbfoto7248
8 ай бұрын
@@bennyblanco14 Thanks. Tuning is a fairly straightforward PROCESS like anything else that can be learned. It just takes a bit of time and repetition as well as hearing the before/after result IRL so that it all sink in, makes sense, and becomes easy. There are basic steps to follow in the process to achieve good results, though sometimes either the system or the DSP that is being used can alter the process or order of the steps. I'm a musician (drums/percussion & saxophones) and have been installing car audio SQ systems in my car since the late 80's. :P So when I hear a particular instrument that doesn't sound quite right on a track that I'm extremely familiar with, I have a good idea of what needs to be adjusted and by how much. It's great to know that you have one of the HELIX DSPs. They have all of the features and functionality that is needed to produce a really great sounding system, and the software IMO&E is intuitive and very well laid-out. To get a solid and complete "baseline tune" from start to finish these days usually takes me ~30 minutes or so. But I've been doing this for a LONG time, including using REW, Smaart, Systune, and other measurement tools. In addition to REW, lately I've been using the Freeware "Open Sound Meter" or JL Audio's "TuN" DSP software for doing real-time phase analysis and corrections. Then, after matching the response to my preferred Target Curve in my initial tune, I will spend a few hours over several days or a week or two to further fine-tune the system after having listened to a group of music test tracks that always highlights specific problem areas. Sometimes your specific system, how it's installed, or just the acoustics of the vehicle will not allow you to "fix" every single issue, but the DSP and measurement tools that we have available now make it infinitely easier to get the system to 90%-95% out of 100. Nerijus at RAW-CAt and the Facebook SQ Groups are great resources, though I tend to avoid FB when possible...it's just a time suck for me. On a side note: Do a Google Search for "diymobileaudio bbfoto - Experiments in Recording a Car Audio System with Microphones - Downloadable Sample Inside". In that forum thread I posted a 180mb audio file that you can download that is a sample in-car recording of a simple car audio system that I installed and "tuned" for one of my friends a few years ago. If you download the file, make sure to listen to it with Headphones or Earbuds/IEMs. That system is nowhere near being an "End Game" system like I have in some of my own vehicles, but it demonstrates just how much can be achieved without a dedicated or standalone DSP, but just a decent modern head unit that has a "Network Mode" and some basic DSP features built-in like Crossovers, Time Alignment, Levels, and EQ...in this case a Kenwood eXcelon Reference DDX9905S double-DIN touchscreen from 2018. I've been wanting to do another in-car recording with a better microphones setup and technique in my own vehicles that should produce even more realistic results, but time and I guess a bit of laziness have prevented me from getting it done. But my "old" sample that you can download in the thread that I referrenced above is still pretty good. ;)
@CarAudioEnthusiasts
8 ай бұрын
All pass sorts out the null quite often
@RickyRing-xy7vy
2 ай бұрын
When running an external crossover/dsp are you running full pass on amps with frequencies all the way up and down or are you adjusting amp close to or just past fruencies on dsp to get best out of everything? I’m currently not running a dsp but looking into getting one. I would like to know if you have your amp setting (frequencies) wide open and then just allow the dsp to do the work???
Пікірлер: 12
Hey curious do you have pitch adjustments in dsp because home dsp people are changing the 440hz tuning frequency to 432hz which it said is better
@CarAudioEnthusiasts
2 ай бұрын
you can set any slider to any frequency, on most decent EQs in DSP
@bennyblanco14 After setting your time alignment, raising or lowering the Levels for each channel so that they are balanced is just an overall "rough" or general starting point. After balancing all the left and right levels, if you do not use the Independent Left & Right EQ as he describes, you will still have a frequency-dependent center image that drifts/shifts/wanders to the Left or Right when particular notes are played by an instrument or vocalist. The process he is using tightens up and brings the center image into sharper focus AT ALL FREQUENCIES and eliminates the frequency dependent shift or drift to the left or right and the lack of pinpoint focus in the center and across the Soundstage. Once you have the entire frequency range balanced from Left to Right with his process, with a good DSP, you can then LINK the Left & Right EQ channels together while maintaining their "unequal" relationship (i.e. keeping the Left channel at 250Hz raised by +1.5dB and the Right lowered by -1.5dB). Once the Left & Right EQ is linked, you can then adjust your OVERALL Frequency Response to match your Target Curve or overall preferred spectral balance (tonality). My only word of caution is not to boost any given frequency more than 3dB IF that boost does not result in an appropriate Audible or Measureable difference. If you boost and there is no change, that means there is a destructive interference Cancellation Null at that particular frequency At Your Listening Position that no amount of EQ or additional power will solve. If you do this, you'll just be sending more power to that particular speaker and overdriving it, risking damage to it and adding distortion with no benefit to the sound. You just have to live with that cancellation null unless you can (safely) use another speaker or the subwoofer to fill it in. Watch the "Erin's Audio Corner" video about "Using Your Subwoofer to Improve your Midbass." Due to the dimensions of the interior of the vehicle, most will have several unavoidable cancelation nulls between about 70Hz-90Hz and another null around 180Hz-220Hz. This is the result of the wavelength at those frequencies and the distance between the two doors or left and right speakers or to the large center console/transmission hump in some vehicles.
So this would be the process if you dont have any form of an rta? I bought the audio tools app and a dayton calibrated microphone. It helped to target the problem frequecies and cut those to get a relatively flat curve. I just finished a tuning session. That said ive never even heard a properly tuned and centered vehicle, im going by what sounds proper to me. My twk88 takes physical measurements in inches and converts it to milliseconds delay and it gets it sort of close, but i need to adjust the level trim quite significantly to get it centered. Should i be adding additional delay, or trimming the levels to get it centered?
@CarAudioEnthusiasts
8 ай бұрын
yes this can sortof replace an rta, and yes you can use levels to fine tune the center stage , like i explained in the video. just reflect the same changes on each side, -1 db down on right +1db on left. this maintains the overall tune.
@ah4800
8 ай бұрын
@@CarAudioEnthusiasts how fine is fine tune? I've got like a 4 or more db difference in trim levels side to side for my tweeters and I think even more for the mod range
I personally just raise or lower the each channel so that they all match DB..if you did your TA correctly, that is all that really needs to be done....adjust the EQ is not a good way to center if you are tuning..
@bbfoto7248
8 ай бұрын
@bennyblanco14 After setting your time alignment, raising or lowering the Levels for each channel so that they are balanced is just an overall "rough" or general starting point. After balancing all the left and right levels, if you do not use the Independent Left & Right EQ as he describes, you will still have a frequency-dependent center image that drifts/shifts/wanders to the Left or Right when particular notes are played by an instrument or vocalist. The process he is using tightens up and brings the center image into sharper focus AT ALL FREQUENCIES and eliminates the frequency dependent shift or drift to the left or right and the lack of pinpoint focus in the center and across the Soundstage. Once you have the entire frequency range balanced from Left to Right with his process, with a good DSP, you can then LINK the Left & Right EQ channels together while maintaining their "unequal" relationship (i.e. keeping the Left channel at 250Hz raised by +1.5dB and the Right lowered by -1.5dB). Once the Left & Right EQ is linked, you can then adjust your OVERALL Frequency Response to match your Target Curve or overall preferred spectral balance (tonality). My only word of caution is not to boost any given frequency more than 3dB IF that boost does not result in an appropriate Audible or Measureable difference. If you boost and there is no change, that means there is a destructive interference Cancellation Null at that particular frequency At Your Listening Position that no amount of EQ or additional power will solve. If you do this, you'll just be sending more power to that particular speaker and overdriving it, risking damage to it and adding distortion with no benefit to the sound. You just have to live with that cancellation null unless you can (safely) use another speaker or the subwoofer to fill it in. Watch the "Erin's Audio Corner" video about "Using Your Subwoofer to Improve your Midbass." Due to the dimensions of the interior of the vehicle, most will have several unavoidable cancelation nulls between about 70Hz-90Hz and another null around 180Hz-220Hz. This is the result of the wavelength at those frequencies and the distance between the two doors or left and right speakers or to the large center console/transmission hump in some vehicles.
@bennyblanco14
8 ай бұрын
@bbfoto7248 awww great response.... I have a huge null between 70-90 for the longest but when I switched from ported 2 12s to a single sql15 sealed which actually help fill that null and also able to bring the sub upfront.. But, let's go back to what you stated about what you explained now actually makes sense to me.. I know what your saying how the center tends to shift ... I spent hours picking a part every single speaker trying to get it to stay centered ...it wasn't bad like it drifted far left but to me, it was very noticeable. I might try this method, trying to get ready to compete next year I been in the SQ side for 3 years now after 20 years of spl. I can not express this enough, tuning is a complete headache 😫... I used to think building certain boxes so that they fit or install was bad enough..ha!!.. Tuning will have you pull out your hair...not to mention, there is so much to learn, especially trying to understand how to use rew, thank God I have a Helix, it's very user friendly A great page to check out on Facebook if you ever need help with tuning is RTA IN CARS and Strictly Sound Quality. A great SQ youtube channel I like to watch is RAW CAT, he does a great job explaining tuning aswell and if your into knowing more about distortion a good Facebook page to check out is Distortion Factory Thanks for the help, very appreciated
@bbfoto7248
8 ай бұрын
@@bennyblanco14 Thanks. Tuning is a fairly straightforward PROCESS like anything else that can be learned. It just takes a bit of time and repetition as well as hearing the before/after result IRL so that it all sink in, makes sense, and becomes easy. There are basic steps to follow in the process to achieve good results, though sometimes either the system or the DSP that is being used can alter the process or order of the steps. I'm a musician (drums/percussion & saxophones) and have been installing car audio SQ systems in my car since the late 80's. :P So when I hear a particular instrument that doesn't sound quite right on a track that I'm extremely familiar with, I have a good idea of what needs to be adjusted and by how much. It's great to know that you have one of the HELIX DSPs. They have all of the features and functionality that is needed to produce a really great sounding system, and the software IMO&E is intuitive and very well laid-out. To get a solid and complete "baseline tune" from start to finish these days usually takes me ~30 minutes or so. But I've been doing this for a LONG time, including using REW, Smaart, Systune, and other measurement tools. In addition to REW, lately I've been using the Freeware "Open Sound Meter" or JL Audio's "TuN" DSP software for doing real-time phase analysis and corrections. Then, after matching the response to my preferred Target Curve in my initial tune, I will spend a few hours over several days or a week or two to further fine-tune the system after having listened to a group of music test tracks that always highlights specific problem areas. Sometimes your specific system, how it's installed, or just the acoustics of the vehicle will not allow you to "fix" every single issue, but the DSP and measurement tools that we have available now make it infinitely easier to get the system to 90%-95% out of 100. Nerijus at RAW-CAt and the Facebook SQ Groups are great resources, though I tend to avoid FB when possible...it's just a time suck for me. On a side note: Do a Google Search for "diymobileaudio bbfoto - Experiments in Recording a Car Audio System with Microphones - Downloadable Sample Inside". In that forum thread I posted a 180mb audio file that you can download that is a sample in-car recording of a simple car audio system that I installed and "tuned" for one of my friends a few years ago. If you download the file, make sure to listen to it with Headphones or Earbuds/IEMs. That system is nowhere near being an "End Game" system like I have in some of my own vehicles, but it demonstrates just how much can be achieved without a dedicated or standalone DSP, but just a decent modern head unit that has a "Network Mode" and some basic DSP features built-in like Crossovers, Time Alignment, Levels, and EQ...in this case a Kenwood eXcelon Reference DDX9905S double-DIN touchscreen from 2018. I've been wanting to do another in-car recording with a better microphones setup and technique in my own vehicles that should produce even more realistic results, but time and I guess a bit of laziness have prevented me from getting it done. But my "old" sample that you can download in the thread that I referrenced above is still pretty good. ;)
@CarAudioEnthusiasts
8 ай бұрын
All pass sorts out the null quite often
@RickyRing-xy7vy
2 ай бұрын
When running an external crossover/dsp are you running full pass on amps with frequencies all the way up and down or are you adjusting amp close to or just past fruencies on dsp to get best out of everything? I’m currently not running a dsp but looking into getting one. I would like to know if you have your amp setting (frequencies) wide open and then just allow the dsp to do the work???