It might be interesting to know that 'torsen' stands for TORque SENse. It's not the name of a Scandinavian inventor...

@profrook

3 жыл бұрын

TORSEN was invented in USA, also TORque SENsing is bad name for what that machinery does

@eknaap8800

3 жыл бұрын

@@profrook You do have Scandinavian people living in the USA...

@simeongroeneveld2000

2 жыл бұрын

Bajs

Of course in the real torsen diff the backlash would be much less than this

@lt.frankdrebin3317

2 жыл бұрын

So that's what was causing that delay in driving the wheels - backlash. I thought so.

@233kosta

2 жыл бұрын

@@lt.frankdrebin3317 How d'you mean?

@ChiefSmackahoLLC

2 жыл бұрын

@@233kosta Drivetrain lash is usually presented as an abrubt or jarring application of torque/power caused (if not by damage) by either space between gears, or poor tolerances in the gearing in general. But I can say even in modern near-luxury cars with torsen-differential applications like Audi or VW, quattro type manual transmission drivers can notice some small amount of this It's not noticeable at all in modern full automatic or multi clutch transmissions. At least not as much as the lego car :)

@233kosta

2 жыл бұрын

@@ChiefSmackahoLLC You need backlash any time you have gears, else they'll just wear each other out in no time. Normally if you maintain a preload on the gears it's not noticeable (hence distinction between manuals and autos). Damage over time from rough driving (esp. in manuals) typically results in looser transmission and engine mounts more so than added gear backlash, you'd have to abuse it pretty hard to wreck a diff that bad

this might be one of the worst rendition of Canon in D I've ever heard, wtf.. Interesting video nonetheless

@DaSquyd

3 жыл бұрын

That’s actually all I was focused on during this video

@ArtemisAvali

3 жыл бұрын

Its definitely an interesting remix

@henrylee4374

3 жыл бұрын

Thought it sounded familiar in a weird way...

@theraindrop

3 жыл бұрын

@@henrylee4374 u probably recognize it becuz memories by maroon 5

@ArmyOfThree1000

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah it’s like they were mixing neon cat the cannon in D

This is a good illustration because the real torsen has the helical gears meshing with the inner worms and it gets confusing as to which is the worm and which is the gear. But this model uses straight cut gears and clears all that up. It would have been nice to see the model change direction left or right while it's rolling, but this is pretty good!

Hi FUNTastyX, thank you for this excellent presentation. I understand that we have many "armchair mechanical engineering" viewers among YT posters ; regardless of their various criticism(s), your video does give a simpler "down to earth" illustration of the inner workings of the torque-biasing" Gleason-Torsen differential. The principle of the Gleason-Torsen is more complex than other spool, locking, limited-slip, etc. differentials and I was truly impressed that you were able to break it down with the use of LEGO parts (as opposed to Meccano gears). I thank you for the time and effort you spent explaining this important concept for the benefit of the engineer-at-heart viewers. Ciao, L (retired FoMoCo engineer).

Meanwhile real car manufacturers... Project manager: "Aye why don't we make performance cars with open diffs and make them act like LSD by having a crapton of electronics that keeps on activating the brakes independently?" Engineers: "you'll cook your brakes in intensive use that way" PM: "but it's 5 kg lighter" Eng: "you just made us find room for 60 kg of unnecessary extras no-one will ever want" PM: "but it's half a grand cheaper" Eng: "there's 15 grands worth of extras in the brochure" And that's how proper LSDs have vanished from virtually every hot hatch still on the market to this day...

@EpicGiantMango

3 жыл бұрын

There's a maintenance argument as well though - replacing brakes is regular maintenance and easily done. Pads and rotors are cheap and readily available. On the flip side if you work a real mechanical LSD real hard all the time, you will be straining those gear teeth all the time. That stock differential needs to be designed to last the entire life of the vehicle even if you run it hard. Run the brakes hard, easily replaced. Sincerely, an owner of a Mk 7 Golf with new brakes.

@RickZanardi

3 жыл бұрын

@@EpicGiantMango that's not a wrong perspective by any means but my point of view is that if you drive a performance car, or any car with a transmission that's designed to take some abuse, hard enough for as long as it's needed to trash the diff you'd probably have cooked your brakes several times in the process. Not to mention if you're driving hard on a mountain road, when brakes are having a tough time even by just doing their normal job. Then again, I've never had the pleasure to drive a car with a mechanical LSD and neither one with an E-diff so my opinion is worth nothing, all I know is that my poor little corsa GSi has to rely on the gentleness of my right foot to put her just-above-modest power down and so far I've never had any trouble so I guess this should be a topic of discussion for the 200+ hp guys which I'm definitely not 😅

@hydrochloricity

3 жыл бұрын

The new hotness is ELSDs, though they're usually more expensive than any other option since they require a control module, wiring harness design, actuator(s), etc. They also require more engineering time as they are adjustable, not just a component that exists as is. However they shine in efficiency & NVH, and that's why ELSDs are getting more popular. No clunking or jerking, simple straightforward construction at the plant, able to operate as a fully open diff as required. That said, Brake Torque Vectoring (using the brakes to add torque capability on the slipping side) isn't a bad way to do it for the vast majority of vehicles on the road. True in a very heavily sport focused vehicle it will lack compared to a mechanical solution, but for the vast majority of drivers it makes much more sense and is less intrusive. The duty cycle is so low cooking the brakes isn't a large concern and it means a lighter cheaper diff assembly.

@RickZanardi

3 жыл бұрын

@@hydrochloricity yeah if they are tuned appropriately they're fine, even McLaren use them on their road cars and if they're good for them it means they really are, but the thing is, I wouldn't expect E-diffs to have 100% of the market share in the (sort of) affordable performance cars department, but they're actually getting there, it's either open diff or E-diff. I would expect some brand to try to get the entirety of the smaller share of market made out of purists who prefer manual gearboxes and mechanical LSDs over automatics and electronic counterparts. But I guess those like me are either broke or already buying older cars, which I totally understand

@hydrochloricity

3 жыл бұрын

@@RickZanardi The thing is, that segment could politely be called the "loud cheapskates". Not that everyone who wants a simple sports car is a cheapskate, but that for the amount of clamor people make about wanting them, they don't sell well enough to justify. The only reason the Miata got a 4th generation is because they offset the development by sharing it with the Fiata (which got cancelled on its own). Similarly the only reason the BRZ exists is because Toyota basically told Subaru "make us a sports car and you can have our direct injection" which Subaru needed to meet emissions. It doesn't make any of them bad, but it just proves that making a simple sports car pretty much means it has to be subsidized somehow. And then there's Nissan, somehow still selling 12 370Z's a year...

This is great, I've tried and failed to understand Torsen diffs before but this is the first time I get it, thank you.

@andrewyoung4473

3 жыл бұрын

The same is true for me, I have struggled to comprehend their mechanism. This video cleared it up.

For those wondering: The music in this video is Canon In D by Pachelbel

@robinvsdk

3 жыл бұрын

I played it a few years ago on piano but I just couldn't remember what the name was. Thank uou so much

@livedandletdie

3 жыл бұрын

It is indeed Canon in D by Pachelbel, however it was such a dull version of it that I had to restart the video to actually see if you were right..

@robinvsdk

3 жыл бұрын

@@livedandletdie look up: canon rock

@theraindrop

3 жыл бұрын

why does it kinda sound like memorys by maroon 5 i think

@robinvsdk

3 жыл бұрын

@@theraindrop lol it kinda does sound the same

A real torsen does not work when a wheel is in the air due to the torque multiplication principal. If 1 wheel is at 0% Traction 100% of power times 0% traction = 0 power going to the other wheel. This is why when you snap 1 CV shaft in a 2001 Audi S4 you can't go anywhere. Been there done that....

@fajoopsa

3 жыл бұрын

100% correct. Thank you.

@hydrochloricity

3 жыл бұрын

There is one Torsen variant that incorporates a small preloaded clutch into the case so that even in the air no wheel will ever be fully unloaded, but as far as I know it's an aftermarket only part, no OEM has ever used it. I think it's called the "Racemaster".

@Ckcdillpickle

2 жыл бұрын

That's why when off roading they tell you to come to a stop, light brakes then gas and it gives resistance to lock the wheels together

@AaronShort555

2 жыл бұрын

@@hydrochloricity Toyota GT86 uses the ABS actuator on the rear left/right brake to apply some torque to the unloaded wheel, to keep the diff working. Quite an elegant solution to the torsen downfall

@hydrochloricity

2 жыл бұрын

@@AaronShort555 That's really just standard brake pinion traction control that also happens to be on a Torsen. It works great, but it's nothing groundbreaking- for example Audi had it in 1995 on the S6, they called it EDL.

take care: in an open differential the torque provided by the power unit is always distributed 50% per side in every (but really in every) condition, even if a single wheel is slower, blocked or turns in the opposite direction.

@impactodelsurenterprise2440

2 ай бұрын

No

0:57 this is incorrect. Torque flows to both wheels evenly all the time in an open differential except when they both receive none. I have a video measuring the torque of the stalled wheel while varying the resistance on the slipping wheel and you can see the torque on the stalled wheel changes with the resistance of the slipping wheel.

@snoopah3077

3 жыл бұрын

"T-This is incorrect, y-yo-yo-your s-ssupposed to make it like i-i do 🤓"

@KTMcaptain

3 жыл бұрын

@@snoopah3077 ❄️🔥❄️

@ferdoreznik

3 жыл бұрын

Firestarter, share please your video. That could be interesting. Thanks.

@KTMcaptain

3 жыл бұрын

@@ferdoreznik kzread.info/dash/bejne/ap5m0M2yadmseMY.html the first part I stall the wheel with a torque wrench and then apply resistance to the spinning wheel. As resistance increases the stalled wheel receives more torque. Then I demonstrate that the locker can bias all the torque to one wheel as it receives more torque than what it could with an open differential.

@kolaspyker1423

2 жыл бұрын

You are right BUT in case one of the wheels doesn't have traction i.e (on air and not touching the ground ) the torque will go to that wheel only because open diff tend to send torque to the less resistant wheel "the one on air". The solution is to lock the diff or to use a much sophisticated systems like torsen diff.

I watched about 5 or 6 differential explanation videos and yours was the first with proper explanation and showcase what actually happens and how. I was already aware what normal differntial does. But I was not aware, that a slipping wheel will render the other wheel with no torque and that a torsen differential solves this. Nice.

Pretty visual. Nice. P.S. I don't know what to write. Just want to support the video :)

You got it wrong, with an open differential both wheels get the same amount of torque. However, if only one wheel is rotating all the POWER might go to that wheel.

@fisch37

2 жыл бұрын

Rotation Speed and torque are directly related. You can't get torque on both wheels with only one rotating

@azlktune

2 жыл бұрын

@@fisch37 Torque on wheel is produced by friction with the surface. If wheel free rotate in air there is no torque on it. And no torque on another wheel. And even no torque on motor shaft, it just rotates on increased idle (except some friction in transmission and wheel inertia).

@MikkoRantalainen

2 жыл бұрын

@@fisch37 Power is torque times rotation speed. You can have all the torque you want but if the wheel rpm is zero, the power transmitted to that wheel is also zero. The problem with open diff is that the max torque you can get with one wheel in the air is so small that it cannot turn the wheel in the ground.

@reinbeers5322

2 жыл бұрын

@@MikkoRantalainen Some cars get around this in uneven terrain by applying the brakes to the free spinning wheels, creating torque (dissipated into heat through the brakes) that the grounded wheel will mirror.

@MikkoRantalainen

2 жыл бұрын

@@reinbeers5322 Yes, and that actually works if it's executed right. It will be a bit rough because of gear backslash in the diff but it will do the job in slow speeds.

this is one of the best explainations about torsen I've seen! Got my ape mind to somewhat understand.

That is one of the best videos I've ever seen. Thank you so much.

Wow, Lego has some thing to teach to every one. Good job for the torsen diff build!

This is amazing. Good job bro!

Really awesome, so time ago I made one torsen differential with technic only, it was bigger than yours but work as well, good job, love the video

You explain so well

Excellent demonstration!

So the only thing lego is still missing is the LSD, on the ramp it just takes the path of least resistance (thus the free wheel), where a LSD would prevent that to a certain torgue.

@yogabumm

3 жыл бұрын

I know you mean something completely different but *DRUGS*

@Pitstopcomponents

3 жыл бұрын

sean star kzread.info/dash/bejne/iZmAz5mweNnKqLQ.html a vid about LSD, which stands for Limited Slip Differential.😁

@kaposvaribando1277

3 жыл бұрын

torsen is a type of lsd

@OrlandoMGarcia

3 жыл бұрын

@@kaposvaribando1277 a mecanical LSD as you say

@brick4353

3 жыл бұрын

I know that in this case it stands for limited slip differential but I can't stoop thinking about the drug

Thank you so much now ik how to fit my ring gear to my torsen diff I had trouble figuring it out for an hour

Really amazing and educational video. It helps understand in action the superiority of the torsen differential. Is it possible to upload somehow the plans or directions to build the torsen differential.

@ferdoreznik

3 жыл бұрын

Actually this is very simple torsen which can carry small torque, I have plan to make it much stronger. That will be more interesting. Then I will let you know. BTW, this is also very nice and simple mechanism: kzread.info/dash/bejne/fouLtaWHZ5TQorw.html

@Shleizer

3 жыл бұрын

A bit misleading. Basic Torsen (without preload) will behave like open diff when atleast one wheel is in the air. In this case it works because there was enough friction in the mechanism, so it was like preload. But in street cars Torsen offen don't have preload and in the second when one wheel will loose all grip (zero friction) it will spin only this one.

@Djhg2000

3 жыл бұрын

@@Shleizer It's misleading in more ways. This is an extreme case of a Torsen differential which uses a self-inhibiting helical angle instead of friction surfaces to achieve the LSD effect. This is what gives the effect of an apparent preload, but the friction comes from cog friction enhanced by the gear angle instead of pressing flat surfaces together. By itself it's quite the clever design but it's not a clear demonstration of a Torsen differential.

@mattphilip4595

3 жыл бұрын

@@Djhg2000 in addition if this Lego example drove in a continuous circle it would quickly lock both driving wheels and no longer act as a diff allowing the wheels to turn at a different speed.

@user-zk4dv2nx8k

Жыл бұрын

@@mattphilip4595 I'm trying to understand how a torsen differential works but am unable to find any good video teaching that . If you have the time ,can you help me with any resources?

Thanks for the prictial explanation 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 understood well now ❤️❤️😅😅

Torsen differential, Audi, genius principles

Came for the design, stayed for the jazz.

Thank you for the instructive video. Keep it up.

@jakubremsik7238

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment. Keep them up.

i like the music. interesting rendition.

Very clever build. Standard diffs are torque balances, so a slipping wheel needs less torque to turn it, meaning the other wheel gets the same low torque which is not enough to drive the vehicle, so it stops with one wheel spinning.

great explanation

Is no one going to mention the shaft breakage at the on the Torsen rendition model... losing parts while climbing a speed bump, omg, totally has to be a Ford... lmfao!! thanks for the build and vid!!! Great job!!!

2:27 you can plainly see both wheels receiving torque, it’s just the slipping wheel limits the amount of torque available to both wheels. It clearly is jittery. If it “does not work” then it would be dead and not applying torque to the surface. Open differentials are always 1:1 (50/50) torque split, so whatever torque the weakest wheel has the stronger wheel gets (including zero)

@eq2theonlyone

3 жыл бұрын

The Torque to accelerate the free wheel is also working on the opposite wheel.

@KTMcaptain

3 жыл бұрын

@@eq2theonlyone actually it’s cancelled out by the identical torque required to over come that wheels moment of inertia. There are some inefficiencies with though with these gears.

@sgthop

2 жыл бұрын

It's jittering because the spinning wheel is coming back into contact with the table. As soon as the vehicle is moved up so that the car can no longer roll back and have the spinning wheel touch the surface, it stops jittering.

This is also not how a torsen works. At 4:11 you can clearly see that it biases torque to the wheel with traction even though the lifted wheel is off the ground. Torsens bias torque off a ratio, so when you lift a wheel they simply spin because 0 times anything is 0. . In a torsen the worm gears are not on the axle outputs and they have spurs on the end. The Spurs mate to each other and force the worms to either not rotate or rotate against each other which provides the differential action. The angle of the helical gear and worm gear interface is what generates axial thrust proportional to the input torque that provides the torque bias ratio. In fact, other helical differentials have gotten rid of the spur gear all together and have the worm gear oriented 90* from a torsen to partially engage the output helical and opposite worm gear to provide opposite or no rotation. . You designed a worm gear locker that functions like a Detroit locker. It will not allow drive to spin the wheels at different speeds but will allow the ground to spin the wheel faster than the driven wheel.

@christiangavrila

3 жыл бұрын

If the test vehicle is rebuilt with steering wheels and made to move in a curve, I believe the difference from a Torsen will be seen. This ingenious device will make some wheels slide on the ground while the vehicle is steering, depending how weight is distributed. I would bet that the vehicle with the battery in front left would make the rear right wheel slide on the ground during curves. I am curious if a real Torsen can be made from Lego, by moving the worms on the same axle as the small gears and adding two more gears on the wheels axle.

@ferdoreznik

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Christian. Original torsen uses helix gears so it is hard to make real torsen copy. The biggest problem of this mechanism is the backlash due to used worms and small gears. It needs big preload to touch both teeth of gears and worms. In 2:50 you can see that curves are not a problem. I have an idea how to make similar differential but without worms. that should be much better. Video will come soon. Thanks for your interest.

@gianfavero

2 жыл бұрын

This

@MikkoRantalainen

2 жыл бұрын

Did I understand correctly that the design shown in this video will push power to inside wheel in corners and the outside wheel will simply rotate from the power transferred from the ground to the wheel?

@KTMcaptain

2 жыл бұрын

@@MikkoRantalainen pretty much. Similar to a Detroit locker in that regard.

Very good

That’s pretty cool, it’d be neat to see with some articulation in the axles for off-road ability but I’m guessing that it’d be pretty hard to do.

@donkmeister

3 жыл бұрын

If the axles were articulated, it wouldn't demonstrate the torsen as both wheels would have grip anyway 😀

@DavidSanchez-ib4ft

3 жыл бұрын

Just search Hmmwv off-road. All military Hummers came factory with torsen axles and a gm242 TC.

@MikkoRantalainen

2 жыл бұрын

@@donkmeister If your have articulated axles (aka suspension) the height difference just need to be higher to show the need for something better than open diff. Basically you're fine with open diff if you have enough friction and the suspension travel can cope with the surface uneveness well enough. But every suspension has max travel that it can support. See here for an example with a real car in real world: kzread.info/dash/bejne/c21o2bGxebjWfLA.html

It appears as though wheels cannot spin differently forever as it only has so much room before running out of gear and wheels must spin equally again. What happens then?

@reinbeers5322

2 жыл бұрын

The differential will lock, presumably. Which is what it did, and I'm guessing that if it was put driving in circles one of the wheels would lock up.

Damn. I feel like a child again. I'd like to take a remote controlled lego car and convert it into 4WD layout, with suspension if possible.

@mikkihintikka7273

3 жыл бұрын

hyvä aki eiku leikkimää

wow! i was wondering how my torsen diff works for my toyota fortuner, saw several videos with narrations but got more doubt than answers, got this one without any hope but even without the voice narrating how, i understand now this is the "torsen for dummys" guide... why youtube don't enable the 10+ like button... thanks a lot.

I never thought I'd see a limited slip differential in Lego..

this had me reaching for mute faster than any video ever made. but i learned how a torsen diff works!

Cool

Open differential is my main issue with my car, gets stuck so damn easy

For as big enough as the torsion transmission in the back you could possibly put one of them little Lego piston engines in the middle

Nice video, you made a common mistake though. You claim that when 1 wheel is of the ground that it gets all the torque, this is not exactly the case since a normal differential equally distributes force, if there would be more torque on one wheel then the other the differential itself would turn (if not stopped externally). However, the 1 wheel in the air gets all the power. Since with equal torque, only one of the wheels is able to turn the one wheel stands still, and since power equals speed times force the wheel spinning gets all the energy which is therefore not used on the road.

@sgthop

2 жыл бұрын

I had to read through your word salad comment a few times to parse out what exactly you meant, but open differentials (which is what the standard Lego differential is) are most certainly used in cars on the road.

@MRtrax1000

2 жыл бұрын

@@sgthop They are indeed most used. Sorry for my word salad. I tend so make those a lot when talking about technical stuff. I'm aware of it.

@reinbeers5322

2 жыл бұрын

Essentially, an open diff matches the torque that both wheels can apply to the ground. One wheel is stopped, therefore it can't 'put down' any driving force. The other is in the air, which means it also cannot apply torque to the ground to move the vehicle.

So clever!!!!

i wonder how lego will make the tosen diff of their version

would it be possible to make a micro torsen differential or would it have more problems transfering drive and torque climbing up steep hills?

Finally, a video with stock music that's actually interesting

Sick Upbeat canon music in the background

Cooool😀👍🏻

Great video. Why there is a tiny delay when torsen kicks in?

I didn't understand anything, but it was interesting

Being a Lego geek and a fan of the torsion differential you had me at hello lol. Quick question for you, what was with the lag time in the torsion differential demonstration car? I was very impressed you could make one of those differentials out of Lego, keep up the good work and happy building. I will leave a like for a tip and see myself out thank you

@tazargroups.r.o.2152

2 жыл бұрын

The lag is because of backlash between worms and gears.

You could just lock your diff and get a similar affect. Of course you lose traction when cornering but let be honest you won't be going fast enough for that to be a problem

For the standard you can use the locked difrential method

you music choice reminds me of llamas with hats

So would you expected greater losses from a torsen diff then?

The torsen diff is used in some of the best 4wd vehicles ever built. Like the 4runner and Land Cruiser.

@liljohnp132

2 жыл бұрын

What years?

@Taintedgod771

2 жыл бұрын

@@liljohnp132 I think 2003-current 4runners. Depending on trim level though. And I think almost every Land Cruiser. I could be very mistaken though.

@liljohnp132

2 жыл бұрын

@@Taintedgod771 Thanks.

@polbecca

2 жыл бұрын

Torsen diffs are also used in 2WD cars. My Rover 620ti had one. The advantage was somewhat offset by me often not buying the best tyres.

so uh whats the use of the differential if the front axle is fixed anyways

Im vibing with the song that i didn't notice the video ends. I rewatch it, also what's the name of the songs

Gotta love torqe

Clever stuff

Hey I have a question. Where do you get these pieces/parts from. Does it come in a set or kit or something. This is stuff cool and I’d love to get into building stuff like this, just have no clue where you guys get these crazy parts at. Like gears, differentials (if you don’t build them yourself), motors, axels, etc. thanks! Great vid btw so cool obviously

@avenjamin

3 жыл бұрын

Lego

@doubleKlutch

3 жыл бұрын

LEGO Technic

If only it was possible to model a torque converter. Ah well. Lovely video :D

@akisalmenaho8473

3 жыл бұрын

You would need transmission fluid and two turbines to make one. Keeping the fluid in legos is a challenge in itself.

@MrAndrius12

3 жыл бұрын

@@akisalmenaho8473 precisely 👌

What is the music used?

Is there a problem with slop in torsens in cars

So is thare a way to make it more compact?

Do you have instructions for this?

I never heard of a Torsen diff before, looks very interesting. Is this the sort of diff used on some offroad vehicles? Could you give me some real life examples?

@thehulkamaniabrother2.089

2 жыл бұрын

The first generation Humvees have it front and rear

@Shitnugget69

2 жыл бұрын

While Limited Slip Differentials(LSD's) like this do happen off road they are more common in track oriented performance cars. Locking Differentials are the way to go for off road prowess.

@BTeamMcOrigins

2 жыл бұрын

@Raspian Kiado I've got a welded diff for rally runs in central Florida sugar sand :)

@_Dimon_

2 жыл бұрын

Most known example is Audi and their Quattro system, where it is usually used as a center diff.

Now I understand the point of a locking differential on my truck. And also why they tell you not to use it on the road normally. This really helped it make sense.

I put a ford torsen in front of my 2019 f150. BIG difference vs the open , much more traction. I already have a modified mustang limited slip in the rear

Perfectooo

So torsen differencial can lock like a locking differential, but it may take time to lock itself

How... how did torsen work with one wheel in the air?? It's TORque SENsing, meaning that both wheels have to have a little bit of traction for the differential to work. How did this actually lock while in the air??

@ferdoreznik

3 жыл бұрын

Yes for real torsen it is like that, but this because of used worms the whole differential is fixed until you do not give the same, but opposite torque to both wheels (from outside, not form engine). This is happening in curves, outside wheel is little bit accelerated, the inner wheel is little bit braked. If one wheel is in the air, the there is no power from outside so whole system is like fixed mechanism. I will make different mechanism without worms and test it not only in the air but also on some slipping surface.

@fajoopsa

3 жыл бұрын

@@ferdoreznik not sure what you mean. Are you trying to say when one wheel is lifted a Torsen will act like an open diff because in real life that is what actually happens.

This is just one example of a locking differential and why it should be used instead of an open differential.

Way cool with Legos...especially since all I can make from Legos look like Minecraft

That’s ace. Can you do ATB diff next please?

@tomcardale5596

3 жыл бұрын

That's was a torsen diff is! They're different names for the same thing, and if you want to call it a Hoover then your can get a Truetrac.

@Ka0SM

3 жыл бұрын

Tom, thanks for the reply. I suppose I should have been more specific. I used to have a Quaife ATB LSD in my car. They’re considered ‘above’ a generic Torsen. I suppose I wanted to compare why.

@tomcardale5596

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ka0SM I'm not sure how something can be "above" in the way you're describing. The basic operation is the same. You can have different ratios in the gears and screws, different amount of torque biasing and obviously better or worse build quality. I have an Ashcroft ATB diff in the back of my Land Rover, I would consider it equivalent to a Quaife or a Truetrac. I believe the Quaife might be slightly stronger than the Truetrac in some applications. The Quaife is advertised as having a 2:1 torque biasing ration, I think mine was 3:1, no idea what a Truetrac is.

what is that delay in engaging at Torsen ?

@klimeji

3 жыл бұрын

I think its due to tolerances in lego pieces.

@ThomasSz1994

3 жыл бұрын

Every little tolerance adds up until the wheel starts to turn

Why is there a delay in the Torsen differential?

Its pretty good but this should use long time to go front or rear.....

Can someone pls tell me the song used from the start of the video to 2:37 pls

TORSEN IS GOOOD

great video! can someone explain why it takes a while for the Torsten diff to grip when against uneven terrain, as in the last minute of the vid?

@stevecarter8810

3 жыл бұрын

Lots of gaps between teeth in the lego parts, gotta take up the slack

@Seeyan86

3 жыл бұрын

makes sense, thanks!

@thehulkamaniabrother2.089

2 жыл бұрын

Back lash!

What's with the remix of the wedding march?

En donde se puede ver

Wow, only wow

Valid point now try a limited slip differential. What an L.S.D. does is cause the wheel that isn't slipping to get more torque making it more reliable that standard and no where near as big and bulky as Torsen.

Nice video but it totally misses the main weakness of Torsen 😢 When one wheel is in the air, the other wheel does not receive any torque. In that particular case it behaves just like an open differential.... Furthermore, what you build is not a Torsen LSD but a very complicated Detroit/LockRight locker!!!!!!!! Mind you, for serious Off Road, up twisting sand tracks/dunes, nothing comes near a Detroit locker!

So, if you were to put one of these gearboxes on both the front and rear axles, and then a third one to split between the axles as a transfer gearbox, you could theoretically put all the torque into a single wheel if the other three were slipping? Sounds like the ultimate 4WD to me.

@pontiacg445

7 ай бұрын

You don't often see torsen diffs used in off road vehicles because they only transfer torque if there is torque, so if you lift a wheel and it takes hardly any torque to turn it, that's all the torque you'll get out of it. In essence, zero times the torsen torque bias is still zero. This video isn't a good representation of a torsen diff. More likely to find one on a roadgoing car.

@Simple_But_Expensive

7 ай бұрын

@@pontiacg445 I thought the point of a torsen was that it diverted the torque from the wheel with no traction into the wheel with traction. Doesn’t this mean that if one wheel is in the air all the torque will be diverted to the one still on the ground? If not, I guess I don’t understand how it works.

@pontiacg445

7 ай бұрын

@@Simple_But_Expensive It diverts torque from the low traction wheel to the wheel with more traction. If the low traction wheel has zero torque, then the other wheel gets zero. A car will generally spin the inside tire in a corner with an open differential due to weight transfer, a torsen will shift and multiply some of the torque it took to slip that inside wheel to the outside wheel. This video is not a good explanation, at all. Wikipedia is better.

Why is there so much delay in the Torsten diff turning and then the wheel turning?

@ferdoreznik

3 жыл бұрын

There is big backlash, big gap between teeth.

So what would happen if the car kept turning left or right? Would the differential eventually lock up?

@krupert8355

3 жыл бұрын

Someone else might be better at answering than me, but from what I gather is, since the inner gears can't make the wheel axle worm gears turn, slippage lost energy can't escape through those regular gears to spin the wheel freely... however the wheel can still turn freely if an external force spins the wheel, thus spinning the worm gears. In the video the wheels are spun in the air in opposite directions. This makes the worm gears the drive the inner gears. If however it were driving along the road, the result would be similar, except that the whole differential would have been moving forward as well. In simpler terms, this system allows different wheel speeds as long as the rotation difference force is coming from the wheels/worms, and not from within the diff, which is how it's able to turn both wheels equally when driven, and yet allow different rotation speeds in turns (external force from road). Basically it's a one way system, that has to pass from wheel to worm to diff gears, but not the other way around.

@ferdoreznik

3 жыл бұрын

You can see it in the video at the beginnig part for torsen. I am turning the car left and right and torsen works well. You can see it by spinning the internal gears of whole differential. I have already better idea for torsen but need some time to make it and tune it up. That should be with much smaller gap and no need such big preload.

There is error in the video. Torque is send equally to both wheels in normal diff. Even when one wheel is slipping, the same torque is send to not slipping wheel. Torque is not rotation, torque is force. Because slipping wheel rotates easily it needs much less torque. And the same tiny amount of torque is send to the not slipping wheel. It is just not enough to rotate it. The torsen also doesn't fix it 100%. What torsen does it can send more torque to not slipping wheel. But it is for example 4 times the torque. So if one wheel is slipping only 4 times that torque is send to the other wheel. In real world example this means, that if you lift one wheel the second might not get enough torque to move the car. It works much better then normal diff, but doesn't solve edge cases. Torsen worked good in your video, because the internal (huge, compared to other forces) friction created a hybrid of torsen/SLP differential. The friction in your design on the lifted wheel side was enough to make other wheel rotate and move the vehicle.

@ferdoreznik

3 жыл бұрын

Try to build it and you will see that the torsen differential lock both shafts. Only problem is the preload due to used worms.

@YariNebbia

3 жыл бұрын

@@ferdoreznik Actually, Maciej Kuśnierz is right. The Torsen doesn't lock up completely, therefore if you lift one wheel over the air and you try to give gas, you won't move. Try it on a GT86, that's equipped with a Torsen (4:1 if i remember well)

3 жыл бұрын

@@ferdoreznik It shouldn't lock. When we design custom differentials for different applications we use for example different torque multiplication gears. They should not lock. Worm drive can be back driven if ratios are selected properly. And we use this to design them for different applications.

@ferdoreznik

3 жыл бұрын

Guys but the original torsen uses helical gears and those gears are not in lego parts. This is one of possible ways how to make torsen style differential. I will make another one and test it more and I can share it with you. And yes, original torsen is limited slip diff. It is maybe better for real application.

3 жыл бұрын

@@ferdoreznik I love your videos. I know that this is hard to build in Lego. I was just correcting information about torque. Keep it up. I really enjoy watching your creations.

canon in hyped

Is the torsen diff actually locking up when torque is applied or is it just using the backlash of the worm gears to allow one wheel to turn so far before the wheels are locked, not actually allowing independent wheel spin?

@finan02rothe86

3 жыл бұрын

I think it uses the backlash and there is the Probleme if you have tight corners it will act similar to a locked diff

@EllipticGeometry

3 жыл бұрын

It’s perfectly content with each wheel being driven externally as you please. It just doesn’t allow one wheel to drive the other, relative to the differential as a whole. You’re probably imagining a locked driveshaft. That won’t get you very far regardless of differential type. The free rotation through an open differential in that case is just slip. If you are turning in place without slip, the wheels are driven externally which torsen allows even with a locked driveshaft.

Can you do a demo with 1way, 1.5way and 2way LSD? Would be great to see clearer differences of those. Thanks.

@JosephArata

3 жыл бұрын

Those are only applicable to 4wd asymmetrical split systems from the 90s. Where the rear differential is driven by a jack shaft drive shaft coming out the side of the transverse mounted transmission. Nobody but Mitsubishi still makes AWD systems like that anymore because they're too complex and parts break too easily.

@ipo7596

3 жыл бұрын

@@JosephArata but I watched a lot of those japanese tuner videos were they feature the specs and there were a lot of rwd cars that use these kinds of lsd. I'm not a mechanic but I think I remember stuff like 2way being able to lock when accelerating, braking and during coasting. Pls elaborate more. Thanks.

@thehulkamaniabrother2.089

2 жыл бұрын

@@ipo7596 no

@ipo7596

2 жыл бұрын

@@thehulkamaniabrother2.089 explain more pls. Thx

@thehulkamaniabrother2.089

2 жыл бұрын

@@ipo7596 a torsen differential is gonna feel like a worn out clutch type diff. The best diffs are made by Detroit locker or in my case eaton truetrac. Got the Eaton truetrac in the 67 chevelle ss 396 big block and it burns posi every time lol. 12 bolt axle with 3.73 gear swapped in. She rips. Needs that 871 blower next lol. Torsen is still way better than a regular open diff though

Sorry, but you have mistaken in 0:56 . In open diff condition if one wheel slipping it doesn't matter how is distributed torque. Open diff splits torque always in the same ratio which is specified by it's mechanical construction (usually 50:50 %). That is the problem of open diffs.

Common problem in home made lego torsen differentials is that they get locked too easy. :-( Only when pushing lego car torsen stays open and driven wheels can rotate in different speeds but everytime driven by motor lego torsen locks itself and wheels turn in same speed even in cornering. Torsen should lock only when there is uneven friction between driven wheels. If anyone has solved this problem let me know about your lego torsen design. :-)

@wparsons

2 жыл бұрын

This is also why it doesn't fully unload with a wheel in the air. The friction difference between just spinning a tire in the air vs driving the car forward isn't enough.

Plz tell me where from where I can buy these gears and building materials plz bro plz

@ferdoreznik

Жыл бұрын

Hi, its one of my first video. Made of standard lego bricks. Nothing special... Check my other videos. There are nice gearboxes.

@nitishsaini4733

Жыл бұрын

@@ferdoreznik ok I am watching all of your videos but after that plz tell me from where I can buy these building materials of gears and other parts

Torque sensing. A torsen will not lock when wheel in air. That is not a torsen like my miata has...