"Lever-action on the bottom, bolt-action on the top"; that Vetterli is the mullet of rifles!

@karaayers2867

4 жыл бұрын

Yep, I have an 1878 vetterli. I converted it to centerfire but don't reload or case form. I need some ammo!

@IRONHEAD12701

4 жыл бұрын

Winchester Model 88 (lever/bolt) in 308. My uncle called his an “Winchester 1895/70”. Sister rifle to the Model 100 semiauto. Both great rifles.

@joshhorn5131

4 жыл бұрын

Load the same way as an 8mm Lebelle also

@joshhorn5131

4 жыл бұрын

Or damn close

@adrianfirewalker4183

4 жыл бұрын

I have wanted one since the first time I saw one, just never found one when I had the $

When I was a kid we had relatives who we'd visit a couple times a year. They had an original trapdoor in the front closet that they let me play with whenever we'd visit. The action was completely frozen up and it was badly rusted, but I loved to play soldier in the yard. I had no idea what it was, but i figured out how to work the action and the sights. It was my first introduction to firearms. I wasn't until I started watching videos here on KZread that I learned it was an original trapdoor. How it came into the family I never knew.

@jimvandemoter6961

4 жыл бұрын

@Mario Salinas I remember reading somewhere solders were allowed to buy their guns when they were discharged. When the trapdoor was first made only the military had them because they're weren't enough for civilians, all of them went into military use. If I'm wrong, somebody let me know.

Y'all went full Forgotten Weapons. Ian is gonna be pissed. 🤣❤

@ianthomas3653

4 жыл бұрын

I aint mad bro.

@ericgill4665

4 жыл бұрын

@@ianthomas3653 hello welcome to forgotten weapons and this is our top 5 gun video

@Captainchubba

4 жыл бұрын

Whats really going to anger Ian is Eric saying he cuts down french 8mm Lebel for his swiss Vetterli...

@robsorgdrager8477

4 жыл бұрын

@@Captainchubba gun Jesus does not get angry ... He gets even.

@tomschweikert9537

4 жыл бұрын

@@Captainchubba ouch

7:18 A REAL FINGER BANGER thank God this wasn’t a collab with Garand Thumb (odd coincidence) bc his comment section would have had a hay day with that statement...

@mr.tall-man1573

4 жыл бұрын

Damn I was just gonna comment.........lol

@ewan_mclean

4 жыл бұрын

GMotorMan76 yeah that place is a war zone in itself

Thought the WW1 Canadian troops hated the Ross except for the snipers maybe. Jammed with dirt in the trenches and the troops were known to throw them away and grab Enfield rifles from dead British troops.

@demonhorse103

4 жыл бұрын

they were notoriously known for jamming from the mud and dirt and such from everything, reason why 1915 ross rifles were taken from infantry roles and were replaced by the SMLE, i think it was after some Canadians held off several german attacks during one of the battles of Ypres, during the first gas attacks

@ronaldmacdonald8667

4 жыл бұрын

Another issue they had was misfeeding from sub-par ammo. The Ross was made with very precise measurements (hence the accuracy,) so the lower quality ammunition the British started to produce would get stuck (because the rounds would sometimes be made a little too big, which was no problem for the lee-enfields.) But if you use Canadian ammo, and keep the rifle clean, it works wonderfully, and can be very accurate. The deadliest sniper of the Great War was a Canadian named Francis Pegahmagabow, and he went through the war using a Ross.

@AwesomeAcidika

4 жыл бұрын

@@ronaldmacdonald8667 if i do recall, he had a habit of trench raiding too, and even then, still managed to keep a clean rifle, not to mention had something around 350 - 400 kills over the whole war. I forget the exact figure off the top of my head.

@gullreefclub

4 жыл бұрын

The Ross is a excellent rifle that suffered from earlier production problems because they were not properly trialed and tested. Watch C&Rsenal video on the Ross rifle for a excellent history of the rifle

@jacksonmacpherson6101

4 жыл бұрын

Basically it was an amazing rifle but was not soldier proof. Snipers who got to KEEP their own rifles, use higher grade ammo and spent more time on maintenance loved the guns.

Throat erosion on the .303 Brit has zero to do with headspace... or on any other rimmed cartridge. Chamber size and headspace are two separate things with a rimmed cartridge... You could have headspace right at the minimum AND a chamber so large you split brass all the time.

Ian is going to be pissed you are cutting up his 8mm Lebel ammo. Nice video guys.

Video idea: does a semi automatic become more accurate if you shut off the gas system? Basically turning it into a straight pull Bolt action.

@gordonlawrence4749

4 жыл бұрын

I believe there is a difference in the type of chamber locking mechanism so now you got me wondering if it would make a difference or not.

@davereevs3397

4 жыл бұрын

@@gordonlawrence4749 It might have an effect on some rifles more than others. I have a feeling it would have an effect on an AK. Perhaps reduce all that rattling around that I notice when someone shows high speed footage of an AK in semi-auto.

@gordonlawrence4749

4 жыл бұрын

@@davereevs3397 I suspect you are correct but personally I would want to check in detail to see how much difference it made. EG the bolt smacking the stop will be after the bullet has left the barrel. But will the bolt stay in place if the gas system is closed off or is it released to cycle but just does not cycle due to no gas? That is one of the bigger holes in my firearms knowledge.

@stillwatercasey1204

4 жыл бұрын

During my first AR build, I went and shot my gun before installing the gas tube (I couldn't afford to buy all the parts all at once and got impatient to shoot it). It was just as accurate that way as it is now as a completed semi-auto gun. It was much slower to run that way though since I had to hand cycle it and the charging handle is in a kind of awkward position to be reaching for every shot. I also didn't plug up the gas port in the front sight so the gas coming backward and venting through my keymod foregrip and into me (especially into my hand) made it a really uncomfortable experience.

@litoneup

4 жыл бұрын

Yes it does become manuel. And makes more accurate gun. Almost like a swiss staight pull. Make the long arm lighter and you can remove the bolt part of the gas system

Back to your roots. IV 8888 as it should be. No doubt Barry was smiling down the day you made this one.

C&Rsenal did a whole video on the Ross's development.

First time I ever saw a Vetterli was in Hunt: Showdown. It's such a neat little oddball.

Jesus the height difference is pretty funny to see

@johnm3907

4 жыл бұрын

DudleyIsDumb how tall is he?

@AmishSpecialForces

4 жыл бұрын

Eric really needs a step stool for these videos🤣🤣🤣🤣

@CATDABOSS

4 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure MAC is freakishly tall

@trapperscout2046

4 жыл бұрын

How tall does Tim weigh?

@shmike3775

4 жыл бұрын

I met tim irl hes a freak of nature 😂

"Finger Banger" my nickname in High School...

@mhaugen692

4 жыл бұрын

No it wasn’t

@jamisgood21

4 жыл бұрын

@@mhaugen692 haha who cares! it was funny!

@kabobl-brewster1612

4 жыл бұрын

Your boyfriends must of loved you.

I missed these Mil-Surp videos, been lacking in that category

US Army went with the "trapdoor" system because they had a pile of muzzle loaders left over from the civil war. Cheaper to convert an existing rifle the to develop a whole new one.

Very interesting episode Eric. Thanks for showing these awesome firearms an the knowledge about each one.

Trapdoor Springfield Fun Fact: early cartridge cases were copper, and the extractor would cut through the rim instead of extracting / ejecting. They've found cartridge cases from Custer's Last Stand with cuts and scratches where troopers used knives to get the case out.

love the crossover stuff, great vid!

Love my Vetterli...just a cool odd action. Just need to find a decent cleaning rod to round it out mine...shoots awesome!!

Great vid. Thanks. I really enjoy leaning about the unique mil firearms. Thanks again.

I call the AR a “Direct gas in piston” gun

I have a Browning T-Bolt .22LR (I think from around the 1950s or 60s). I loved shooting it as a kid. I got to where I could accurately fire it with my middle finger, while using my index finger to unlock the bolt straight back and use my thumb to relock the bolt. I used to see how fast I could fire it. It was an awesome squirrel gun too!

It's amazing that the more sophisticated we get in the gun industry the more we appreciate and value the classics. Knowledge it's one powerful weapon indeed.

I had a seizure trying to figure out wtf I was looking at at the cover

the thompson's action is pretty weird, its basically an overly complicated blowback

I would also expect part of the reason militaries went away from straight pulls was susceptibility to dirt and other contaminants.

@litoneup

4 жыл бұрын

The rebs got it mixed up all the time.

Pretty cool. In a year, I'm going to school for gunsmithing and firearms technology. Keep it up.

Im surprised there were no togglelock action guns

@wyattguilliams2621

4 жыл бұрын

Never heard of that before Do you know any specific rifles that have this?

@tuliecowboy4681

4 жыл бұрын

@@wyattguilliams2621 it's the system the luger uses

@Bird_Dog00

4 жыл бұрын

@Wyatt Guiliams Just look up a guy named Adolf Furrer. Pretty much everything he ever designed was toggle-locked... For example the Lmg 25.

@blarfroer8066

4 жыл бұрын

@@wyattguilliams2621 the Pedersen rifle uses it, both Forgotten Weapons and TFB TV have videos on it

Went with Springfield vs Henry because the bean counters in the army thought the troops would be “wasteful” with the ammo.

@eddierudolph7694

4 жыл бұрын

Range and hitting power were also issues, 50 -70 the original round for the early trapdoor vs 44 Henry rimfire.

@kevinwilson9589

4 жыл бұрын

I have read that the first Trapdoors were made from converting existing muskets currently in government inventory.

@hermitvoncrab7174

4 жыл бұрын

Henry was too fragile for bayonet charges

Awesome vid. Never knew about straight pulls until just now!

Great video, thanks for the info!

It would be really cool if you guys did a pawn shop finds video like Tim used to do. You guys "facing off" to find the best cheap gun would be awesome!

>odd actions >no Lee Navy

@zacharyclarke4240

4 жыл бұрын

or pedersen

@geoffelmer

4 жыл бұрын

Or Krag-Jorgensen

@funkyfrunkle1367

4 жыл бұрын

Lee Navy rifles are prohibitively rare and if you do find one in halfway decent shape, it’s going to cost you a fortune. I’ve only ever seen two in the last 6 years and both were trashed.

This must have been filmed not long after Tim’s “barrett finger”

@john-paulsilke893

4 жыл бұрын

Stuart Sharpe that’s what I figured too. Good lesson, I caught myself a few months ago with an SKS trying to jam a round into the gun after treating it gently. I caught a piece of my pinky in the bolt near my palm and actually had to dump superglue and butterflies to avoid being embarrassed at the hospital because I mashed off 1/4” square of my flesh. ☹️

Thank You for posting!

Thanks for the great video. You're never know how much you don't know until you find out. I have once again have found out.

Schmidt-Reuben bolt works like a door handle lmao

I’ve got one of the Steyr M95s in the original 8x50r cartridge. It’s actually a very mild pleasant to shoot round, just impossible to find without handloading.

@shanemoonen5997

4 жыл бұрын

I have one as well i heard it shoots really nice but i wouldnt be able to comment on that because i cant find any rounds at all. I originally thought it was one that was converted but it is not so now i have about 50 nazi bullets and 2 clips.

Those 30-40 krags are cool! Glad to see it got a mention! Mine was my great great great grandpas

haha lol. I misread the title as odd addictions. addicted to buying guns, going to the range, examining trajectory curves, and always looking forward to "the next gun" haha

*Forgotten Weapons has joined the chat*

Dude I saw the thumbnail and saw that Ross rifle holy crap the Ross mk3 is one of my unicorns

Top guns for injuries, like dangerous actions

@JacobTheGunNut

3 жыл бұрын

M82

Hi, do you know of the company tactical kinetics, if so are their barrels quality. I am looking for a new barrel and I need a good one. Thank you in advance for your help.

Great video Eric!

Purchased my first firearm g27 gen 4 from your shop too bad I didn’t get to see y’all i really would have liked to get my Glock box signed by you boys 🤙🏾 I just show my friends the label in the back that says moss pawn

Just started the video, I'm gonna guess that the Swiss K31 is gonna be on the list

You Guys do great stuff!!!

This seems to be an excellent video idea for Ian / Forgotten Weapons to do to see some "fascinating" actions. *No disrespect to IV8888 and MAC*

Ross rifle was recently covered in a good video in the britishmuzzleloaders channel. Recommended

I appreciate these historical odd balls. Thanks.

i bought a Finnish M39 that's in fairly good shape. problem i noticed was that the bolt was clunky when unlocking it from the closed position (Clunky even by mosin standards). I shined a light into the lug races to see if there was anything interfering with the action. I found that on the slope of the left hand lug recess there is a burr that the lug is catching onto, thus making that last few degrees of turning the bolt a bit stiff. it isn't on the actual locking surface where the lugs sit in the fully closed position, just towards the very end of the cam surface. would it be safe to try and lightly buff it out?

I'm digging the Smith 622 in the back. I bought one used about 5 years ago. I love the gun

The union rifle reminded me of the gewehr 43 with the look of the receiver. Great video!

I'm curious about how you find the ammunition for it because I have a swiss vetterli rifle

I have an old Bayonet from a Ross Rifle with the scabbard. The grips on the handle have been replaced and it's in atrociuous shape, but it's still solid AF.

Thanks!! Great info!👍🏻

Damn, that is still from the Barrett? He really did a number on it.

@maxwell120L55

4 жыл бұрын

This video was probably filmed quite some time ago

The Vetterli sight is wild! Exactly like a snail in profile.

The Winchester model 88 has an interesting action also. Basically a lever action bolt gun with a cam lock breach. Smooth action but not so awesome trigger.

Being a skallagrim watcher I saw the older looking rifle at the end there and instantly thought "that's a trapdoor isn't it?"

Man, I freaked when you pulled up the trapdoor Springfield. I saw the Vetterli and really wanted to see it. I inherited one back in the day that was nicked when my parents' house was damaged in a storm and they had to move out for several months. That gun had a brown bore but I always wondered what it was like to shoot. So jelly!

@JacobTheGunNut

3 жыл бұрын

Your wish has come true

Would love to see some more reloading vids from you guys at IV8888

I saw the fear in Tim’s eyes when he said “clip”. Damn clip nazis. I had a 1917 SMLE Mk 1 No.3 that got stolen along with several dozen stripper clips and all my 303 ammo. When I told the cop what all they stole he said “those are called magazines. Not clips”. Yeah, I know the difference guy.

I have a russian pump shotgun but action is reverse. To pump you push first than pull.

@jaredscott9035

4 жыл бұрын

What's the info on that shotgun? I've always been interested in getting one when I had seen it on History Channel over a decade ago.

@NobleBandit

4 жыл бұрын

Jared Scott it’s called RMB-93 (РМБ-93)

@giraykamilkaya

4 жыл бұрын

@@jaredscott9035 Actually it is captured during an operation and I kept it for myself. So I don't have enough information about it. It has Russian markings on it and it looks like not used to much.

@jeffscuderi8662

4 жыл бұрын

Slingshot action

I've got a dozen GP 90s sitting in chargers.... saving for special occasion

I like the r Remington rolling block. for simple but effective action.

4:53 Mac is about to lose the other finger.

I have seen a few of those swiss bolt actions. One was in excellent condition and had an 'excellent price' of 2,300. Chambered in .41 rimfire as well

Coool ! Thanks Guys.

Straight pulls are funny to me. The way they work, they're an action spring and gas system away from being a semi-auto.

It would be cool to do another guess 5 like you use to do back at Moss

@947969

4 жыл бұрын

another shop tour would be fun too

y'all should do your top 5 favorite episodes to make.

Favorite trap door rifle is a military 50-70 I have rounds for one and have seen the rifle on display only in a museum. Wicked cool rifle.

Explaining how you remake bullets for the mosinwinchester made me think of Mathew Quigley

Tfb TV did a video on straight pulls vs turn bolt rifles. Turns out the turn bolt is still quicker

@dbmail545

4 жыл бұрын

I have shot an M95 and a K31. The movements to unlock and lock the actions have to be quite abrupt. It looks better than it feels.

@carman3894

4 жыл бұрын

@@dbmail545 M95 is fast on paper, but in practice it's a different animal.

I've seen the Vetterli at Castle Meersburg and really wondered what that thing was :D now I know

It really gets me when people talk about recoil. Before I inherited/was gifted my Styer by my grandfather, him and my Dad always said it kicked like a mule. I'm a bit flabby now, but when I got it I weighed less than 130lbs. Could shoot it as much as I could afford and never felt abused.

Love Tim's T-shirt. A-Team reference?

Any info on a Schmidt-Rubin 7.5 × 55 semi-automatic, 4 round clip? I can't find info on a semi-auto!

What did that second gun shoot? I can't spell its name. But I have the Egyption Hakeem version and it shoots the 8mm Mauser.

Forgotten Weapons is my favorite but MAC, IV8888, and that custom meat target dude are really interesting too.

@victorwaddell6530

4 жыл бұрын

Custom meat target dude is Paul Harrell . He makes great videos . But you be the judge .

@Redbird1504

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah But I prefer Custom meat target dude. I love his caliber comparisons.

Nice to see some historic pieces now and again, learned to shoot on a bolt action, nothing this fancy though.

With an antique like the Schmidt-Reuben, is it possible to fire modern ordnance ( high velocity) without heavily modifying?

What is the rifle on the wall that's above iv8888 very top one? I've seen it before but have no idea the name. Love the videos as always.

Having served in the military I agree with cost being the reason that the straight pull was not used by Militaries.

Exactly when Tim said I love this gun I said i love this gun, it just a great straight pull rifle m95

These straight pulls are awesome. Makes me wonder why something like this isn't made these days

@carman3894

4 жыл бұрын

I would reckon cost is the biggest factor.

@silvirhunter3607

4 жыл бұрын

Cost, complexity mostly yeah.

@JacobTheGunNut

3 жыл бұрын

How about now?

Army went with the trapdoor over a repeater to keep troops from "wasting" ammo in combat. The military back in those days was ridiculously cheap - units took to reloading their own .45-70 to have ammunition for practice. When it came out that the ammunition supplied by the military was inconsistent and grouped in tall vertical strings, their answer wasn't to try improving the ammunition, it was to issue targets with a tall oval bullseye.

What's the value in usa for a Ross rifle

Top 5 anime crossovers Number 1: MAC and IV8888

Lmao!!! "A real finger banger".

2:53 I believe it's actually from Forgotten Weapons, Ian was testing the Ross rifle to see if the myth is true, it was done by firing the rifle with a string, so it's safe for Ian.

Does anyone know which video was the video where Eric shot a hostage steel plate instead of the bad guy steel plate ? 😭😭😂😂 asking for a friend

Wow, is Eric shorter than I thought? I always assumed he was about average height. Maybe Tim is just tall as hell lmao

@dbmail545

4 жыл бұрын

You ought to see Tim standing next to Hitchcock45, John and 22plinkster. It will make you feel like a dwarf!

@insertnamehere001

4 жыл бұрын

Tim is a gaint.

@johnmorgan1629

4 жыл бұрын

@@dbmail545 Need to get a full line up of gun channels, use them as a musical scale.

Glad you showed the Hakim rifle I had one years ago , it was just a fun rifle to shoot

@mynameisnobody5462

4 жыл бұрын

@sman7290 , I didn't quite catch what they called it in the vid but I recognized the action , my gun was 8mm like you said. Still a cool gun.

The military went with the 45-70 Trapdoor over the Henry because the Henry shot essentially pistol rounds. Very weak round vs the 45-70. The "standard" was that it had to be able to kill a horse at 400 yd.

The bolt on the Ross is an "interrupted thread". The same concept is used by the M114 155mm towed howitzer. (Obsolete, it seems...) M95 Mannlicher (updated to the 'new' - 1930 - 8x56R mm cartridge) was NOT a carbine. It is a 'stutzen' which is a German word for 'clipped). It is shorter than the typical rifle of the day, but longer than a carbine. (Don't look at me, I didn't invent it.) The stamped sheet metal cartridge holder is what is termed an "en bloc loading device". It becomes when inserted, the feed lips of the magazine (temporarily). One finds this mechanism was employed on some older Mannlicher designs and carried on in Mannlicher weapons such as the 1895 rifle, which later became the Romanian 1983 and Dutch 1905 rifles (with minor variations). One notes the French Berthier and the Italian Carcano used the same magazine system. The U. S. M1 Garand also used the 'en bloc loading device' magazine system. I cannot find a direct link between the two, but it is quite suggestive. '98 Mauser action was much stronger than the Mannlicher actions. Probably cost had something to do with it. The staggered magazine instead of the inline design of the Mannlicher system makes for a trimer rifle. The Trapdoor was retained as the U. S. rifle as much for economy as much as anything. After the Civil War, finances were tight, and the war was over. (Deja Vu all over again!) Additional firepower was not important in the grand scale of things until smokeless power was developed in France, the Spanish American War and the looming war in Europe brought attention around to such things and the U. S. adopted the Krag-Jorgensen rifle. Just fr the record, I've got a later version of the Ross, which is - says here - cannot be reassembled wrong. But it's been goober'ed or bubba'ed; rear sight is gone. Shootable, but I haven't yet. Also in the WW1 collection is a couple M95s, an orginal M95 rifle (still in 8x50Rmm) but has something stuck in chamber and won't chamber anything, a Swiss m1911 rifle, a 1898 K-J rifle and a few others not in discussion.

Can you guys do a top 5 guns on most cloned guns? For example for pistols are the cz 75, hi power and beretta 92...

The trapdoor also allowed the us military to reuse hundreds of thousands of muskets. Just like the british did with e snyder conversion