I'm Welsh, I remember the first time I heard Sindarin and got confused because it sounds so Welsh but I couldn't understand it lol. Great video!

This series is going to be a treat! I myself speak both Finnish and Turkish as my native languages, so I can see their influence in many of Tolkien's languages. For example, taking the words you mentioned in this video: Quenya, it means literally "Finnish", as in the Middle Ages Finland was called Kvenland and the Finnish language was thus Kvenya. You can even see these names in old maps! The -ya ending was also used in Finnish writing in the middle ages, but it was changed to -ja in modern times. The other word you mentioned, the khuzdul "Iglishmek", contains the ending -mek, which is a Turkish imperative verb mood to signify "doing something" e.g. give instructions. So if we assume just as an example that "Iglish" means "communication", then Iglish-mek means "to communicate, make conversation". These are just my own observations of course, and I can not be certain of all of them being the real source of inspiration, but there are a lot of these that I have noticed, and it is just fun to try to figure out the puzzles :)

@LanaMarie

Жыл бұрын

lovely additions, thank you so much for this comment!

@AnthonyBerkshire

7 ай бұрын

Black speech sounds also very turkish and is similar structured

As a child, I delighted in drawing maps of fictional lands, and would populate them, with weird and wonderful peoples. But I stopped short of creating languages for them. Tolkien never ceases to delight.

Lifelong Tolkien fan here saying Very Well Done! This was a real pleasure to watch and I appreciated your pronunciations. Looking forward to watching others in this series.

@LanaMarie

Жыл бұрын

thank you!

I really enjoyed this summary on Tolkiens constructed languages! Looking forward to the other parts where you dive deeper into the topic. I find languages really interesting, though I don't really know much about their construction. But I would love to hear more about that from you! One thing I noted in this video was that the endings of many sentences were cut off a bit.

@LanaMarie

Жыл бұрын

thanks for the feedback, i'll look into that!

This is a real treat. I've seen plenty of mistakes in the writing of RoP; the unlikable characters, the plot armor, the contrivances, the pacing, the lore breaking, etc... but I'm not much of a linguist. Sure, I did notice that many characters use the same broken metaphors and thus speak with the same "voice", but I suspect it wholly lacks anything that resembles the poetry of Tolkien. Thanks, I'm saving this video for later.

Tolkien's chanting of the poem sounds remarkably like a cantor singing Hebrew text. Stunning similarity yet not what it seems. Thank you for taking on these subjects.

Khuzdul words which end in long vowels (plus a consonant) such as *aglâb* and *iglishmêk* were most likely stressed on the final syllable (in light of Semitic). Some of my Neo-Khuzdul reconstructions: *adash/adish "cloudy, cloud-" (< ˀ-D-Sh), *ignîb/ugnûb "a face" (< Quenya *nemba, *nimba), *khuzl; *akhzâl "a dream, slumber" (< OLOS), *(ma)zâd "a garden" (< Sindarin _sant_ )

You have clearly read up about these things, and your pronunciation is very decent; especially it is nice to hear you getting the trilled R right. 3:04 -- you say Quenya and Sindarin alike were first written in Cirth. I think this is true of Sindarin only. The Cirth runes were an invention supposedly made in Doriath in Middle-earth in the First Age, long before the Quenya-speaking Noldor arrived, and the Cirth would indeed first be used to write Sindarin. Over in the Blessed Realm, Quenya was first reduced to writing in a script invented by Rúmil, the sage of Tirion. Later, Fëanor invented the Tengwar, "bettering the work of Rúmil", and it became the standard Elven writing from then on. (In real-world terms, Tolkien first invented the Rúmilian script and then came up with the Tengwar as an improved system, but instead of rejecting the former altogether, he maintained both also within the mythology.) "Qenya" and "Quenya" would be pronounced the same ("kwenya"), but in older sources, Tolkien used the former spelling. The word "Qenya" is therefore sometimes used to designate some "pre-classical" forms of the language appearing in Tolkien's notes, differing in various details from the Quenya exemplifed in Lord of the Rings. As for stress, it should be TEL-er-in, ELD-ar-in, SIND-ar-in (you waver a little between "SINDarin" and the incorrect "SindARin"). The second-to-last syllable attracts the stress only if it contains a long vowel or a consonant cluster (or double consonant), which is not the case in these words. Otherwise the third syllable from the end is accented. (Even minutes into Peter Jackson's opus, "Galadriel" apparently isn't entirely sure whether it is "IS-ildur, son of the king" or "the Ring passed to Is-ILD-ur" ... the latter would be the correct pronuciation, which is happily used for the rest of the movie. The consonant cluster in "ild" attracts the stress.) 7:00 -- if you listen carefully, the version of the text Tolkien sings is a little different from the final version actually published in Lord of the Rings, and which you show on-screen (he says "inyar únótimar" instead of "yéni únótime" as in LotR). An example of his never-ending tinkering and perfectionism regarding his invented languages. I must say that you should take more care with the editing. Whenever there is a cut, you all too often slice off the end of what you were saying. E.g. 10:23: "Adûnaic was spoken in Númen..." (maiming the word "Númenor"), and seconds later: "most Men of Númenor descended from the house of ..." (?) I noticed similar examples throughout the video; it almost regularly happens where there is a cut. This is unfortunate when the content is generally so good. I have long maintained a website about Tolkien's languages (Ardalambion.net), if it can be of any use to you in your educational efforts.

@larrykuenning5754

6 ай бұрын

"most Men of Númenor descended from the house of ..." (?): presumably Hador.

Wonderful series! I'm creating a conlang too, and Quenya is one of the main influences. Also, you should keep doing these kind of videos wearing those amazing Elvish clothes and jewelry, it's a really lovely feature. :)

This was really cool! Good job

4:55 Qenya, like Quenya, is pronounced like a Spaniard would pronounce Cueña. He changed English orthography, but kept the same pronunciation.

1:42 Distinguo. Westron is, apart from appendices, a _fictional language._ A language, which according to the story line exists, but is not shown in actual texts. Quenya and Sindarin are by contrast _conlangs_ - while they were made for story-telling, i e fiction, which then took a turn into LotR, they are constructed so they can at least theoretically be used outside that fiction - for instance, Helge Fauskanger (Tolkien linguist as a hobby, Norwegian Bible translator as a job) is translating the Bible into Neo-Quenya. I think all of Genesis and all of the Johannine corpus are already available.

@LanaMarie

Жыл бұрын

thanks for pointing that out!

@hglundahl

Жыл бұрын

@@LanaMarie nie ma za co!

@SamiP-ik7vj

Жыл бұрын

_"The actual Common Speech was sketched in structure and phonetic elements, and a number of words invented..."_ (The Peoples of Middle-earth, p. 299)

@hglundahl

Жыл бұрын

@@SamiP-ik7vj And it does not appear in the book, only in the appendices.

Great video, looking forward to your take on the linguistic specifics!

@LanaMarie

Жыл бұрын

thank you, i'll try to make it understandable for a wider audience but also as informative as i can

You are brilliant. I love your LOTR videos❤

Judging from the what I know about the real wordl relation and in-world dependencies of the languages of Tolkien, this was a very informativ. I´m looking forward to the deep dives, because this is where I severly lack knowledg. XD A point of criticism though: the cutting in this vi[..... cut several words o[.... I and your regular viewers know that this normaly does not happen in your vids, but for potential newcomers this could give off a bad impression, which would be a shame!

Im Really curious about black speech since when Gandalf speaks it in Rivendel its such a dramatic moment in the movie.

Excellent video. Thank you

Very cool video, thank you

Lana, this was a great video. LOVE the elven style jewelry too!

@LanaMarie

Жыл бұрын

thank you, the elven tiara is diy-ed, for another project i'm working on :)

Looking forward to seeing the next parts! I would really love to hear more about the Entish language and also Sindarin. Cuio vae!

Great video

Splendid video!

I am not sure if he used German for creating his languages, but he spoke it and helped with the German translation.

The information and insights you provide in this video are INVALUABLE/PRICELESS!! You seem to me, a truly erudite and Wise woman(( with an essentially flawless sense of aesthetics and taste ))!! The insights you provide in this video will certainly deepen and enrich Tolkien fans worldwide...and for those aspiring to emulate his endeavors, through the pursuit of writing an expansive series set in a unabashedly fantastical world, such as myself... With all my [[ earnest given, most sincere ]] praise said...now I have ((but))one thing I feel must needs be said:... Please...please...please for the love of Éru Ilüvitár, I _beseech_ you: ...please solve the matters whatever they may be which bring about such jarring 'jump-cut' edits? Truly they were jarring... And whether or not, I might be the _only_ one feeling thrown-off from your (( otherwise truly wonderful )) presentation, from my experiences in professional video editing(( namely in carefully observing the work being done in professional editing suites )), I believe I can say that once you eliminate any further occurrence of sudden, jarring 'jump-cut' edits, the overall viewability of your future presentations will hyperspace jump... into the realm of superlative and exquisite! PS:.. You now have an additional Subscriber! 🤗😊🌷🍀💙💜💜

Very interesting video, I think you're off to a great start and can't wait to see what I'll learn as you dive deeper! A lesson on the black speech would be interesting too but no pressure ^^

@LanaMarie

Жыл бұрын

thank you and thanks for watching!

Now that I know that the dwarven language is based on semitic languages, I can totally see the similarities.

Very beautiful Outfit and nice makeup your the woman of culture 👋💯 !

I can barely speak my own language🤔😂 I do have a bunch of texts though, Venyar Tengwar, Sindarin-English etc by J.M. Carpenter, stuff like that. I will probably really enjoy this series!!

This was a super interesting video, and I really appreciate the time and effort you put into it! It's even understandable how you explain it because when I try to read about it, I have trouble with comprehension. I saw the movies in English, and later on KZread, I saw the German version of "Ride of the Rohirrim." When Théoden says ,,Éomer, führe deine Éored zur linken Flanke!" I almost feinted (ha ha, a sword joke/pun - note the use of the "slash" and even the "dash" which are also swordy!)! I felt absolutely convinced that German was the only correct language for Rohan. Of course, I am aware that I am hereby disregarding all the other Scandinavian and Germanic languages, which might be even more appropriate, but since I don't speak any of them, I don't know. Anyway, thank you for the video you made, and I'm looking forward to more! Here is the ,,Auf Ihr Reiter Théodens" video! 01:06 is The Moment! kzread.info/dash/bejne/c2uer7qYmq_LgcY.html

@elenoryn4700

Жыл бұрын

What do you mean with the sword jokes? I am German but unfortunately don't get what you mean. I only know that Tolkien compared the Rohirric with Old english/Anglo Saxon and always thought that would be very fitting.

@dronesclubhighjinks

Жыл бұрын

@@elenoryn4700 “feint” and “faint” are two different words with very different meanings. “Faint” means to lose consciousness. “Feint” is quite an obscure word meaning “a deceptive or pretended blow, thrust, or other movement, especially in boxing or fencing.” “Slash” is the name of the punctuation between the words joke and pun / Slashing is something one can do with a sword. “Dash” is the name of the punctuation - It looks like a horizontal slash, which would be something one could do with a sword. These are the type of word play which usually elicits groans from everybody else!

@elenoryn4700

Жыл бұрын

Ah, thank you! Thats interesting.

@dronesclubhighjinks

Жыл бұрын

@@elenoryn4700 you're welcome! 😃

Do a video on Klingon ! 🙂

A video on black speech would be really cool! I loved this video, so clear and informative.

@LanaMarie

Жыл бұрын

thanks for the feedback, maybe i'll make a separate video in the future then :)

IMO, I believe that one calls the language of Rohan *Rohirric* rather than ‘Rohanese’.

Great vid, tho I cringed every time at “Rohanese” (it’s Rohirric btw)

OK I get that language changes and adapts over time, but I'm really curious as to the mechanism of change, of a language spoken by, effectively and for all intends and purposes, immortals?

@seajaytea9340

Жыл бұрын

Their "immortality" aside, I wonder about language change when the entire population (for all we know) is literate and the language is written. It is observable in the English language that we can still read (and mostly comprehend) Shakespeare some 500+ years removed. The language becomes a fly in amber - static and recalling ages past.

@TheAncientAstronomer

Жыл бұрын

@@seajaytea9340 Yes literacy would play also a big part in the preservation of a language, but, imo,the existence of the speakers of said language that are basically immortal (or to be more precise, they have a very, very, veeeeryyy,long life expectancy, as long as they live in Arda) should make any change, or adaptation, very unlikely. Basically, Quenya,spoken 10000 years before the first age,should be the same, as the Quenya of the first age. Or the second, or third. Because the people who first spoke said language are still there. But I suppose this is a problem that any society, comprised by immortals would have. And not just language wise.

👍🏻

Subd!

I would like to a video on Black Speech.

Finally exposed as the intellectual you actually are. Trying to put a vast & complex subject into somewhat digestible pieces but very interesting & well done. .

Technically Tolkien created the languages fist, then the stories got created.

👀🙈🙉

I'm buying Atomic Heart and Hogwarts Legacy to make some SJWs CRY 🤣🤣😂🤣 HAHAHA!