Why are we still talking about this

@jeffostroff

7 ай бұрын

Why are we still whining about this?

@Puce.C

7 ай бұрын

My names Jeff! 🤪

@12AB17

7 ай бұрын

​@@Puce.Cdon't watch it then

@pete_92

7 ай бұрын

@Puce.C for other people it's interesting. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

@nayil100

7 ай бұрын

The real question is, why are they still recovering it?

Always appreciate your technical commentary Jeff. You are the first channel I check anytime an engineering disaster occurs for facts delivered clear and easy to understand.

@jeffostroff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks so much for the kind words

@rubyoro0

7 ай бұрын

But he didn’t cover the mexico church collapse.

@fionanatalieholden5965

7 ай бұрын

I totally agree. Brilliant content that I can understand and enjoy!

@midnighteternalsoul

6 ай бұрын

Be even better if he admitted when he got things a bit wrong, like the fake transcript he evaluated back in July as if it were legit.

@irene_f.

6 ай бұрын

@@midnighteternalsoul He was not wrong. He clearly stated what it was and what he and countless others "believed".

If I remember correctly, the submersible was actually towed behind the mothership for days due to weather and available space on the deck. This would have bounced every component, loosened every connection, weld, clamp and accelerated the mean time between failures.

@highjinx6519

7 ай бұрын

I’ve mentioned that in comment sections several times. To me that’s common sense that especially that guy who had been down over 30 times should’ve taken notice of yet some jacka$$ in one of the comment sections said that if it was made to stand up to those depths that the rough seas wouldn’t hurt it. Some ppl just have zero common sense. I have zero experience with this kind of equipment but even I know that was a stupid thing to do.

@johnd9357

7 ай бұрын

Shake loose a weld? Lol. A proper weld isn’t going to be phased by shaking. It will be stronger than the substrate it is being used to bond.

@highjinx6519

7 ай бұрын

@@johnd9357 I agree the weld should’ve been fine but all of the technical equipment is another story.

@greggpedder

7 ай бұрын

Oceangate basically cheaped out on the transport. The correct way to do it would have been to transport it on the deck of an offshore vessel and crane it into the water when they're on station. Like every other deep diving submersible operator does. 🙄

@donallan6396

7 ай бұрын

An expert engineer in testing every type of electronic equipment for vibration, impact damage , pressure, and temperature exposure was shocked that they towed this equipment, bouncing up and down in the waves.

I know the intrique has died down but i want to know what happened! So glad youre still reporting on this

@jeffostroff

7 ай бұрын

I will follow this until the end until the very last report is written

@dustysgirl1434

7 ай бұрын

@@jeffostroffthat’s what we are counting on!

@ellabella6099

7 ай бұрын

@@jeffostroffthank you 😊 I for one would want to know exactly what happened and so will be following you to find out.

Thanks for the update Jeff. I have been wondering what the heck is going on with this investigation, as things are very hush hush. I suspect that there are lawsuits in the wings and that may explain the lack of info at this point. And it is the military after all! The metal mandrel possibly would have protected the hull, but with it's weight, who knows. But it still bothers me to the core how Stockton Rush and the company thought safety was over rated. Very disturbing minds at OceanGate.

@bradsanders407

7 ай бұрын

There is such a thing as overkill you know which I'm sure is what he was alluding to.

@wackyvorlon

7 ай бұрын

Note: the mandrel is removed after the resin has cured. It does not remain with the hull.

@virginiaviola5097

7 ай бұрын

With 4 countries involved I would imagine that they will be completing a thorough investigation before releasing a final report, especially if they are still recovering debris and human remains. I would think that as this is an international investigation there will be a joint statement issued once all parts of the investigation are thorough and complete. They’ll leave the speculating up to us armchair analysts in the interim, because while we all may be curious, there are 4 grieving families whose privacy and dignity must be respected while the process of the investigation is done methodically and correctly.

@tboneforreal

6 ай бұрын

This is pretty typical of accident investigations by government agencies. It usually takes a year or more to get a final report and everything is quiet until they are ready to release their findings. It's been two years and we still haven't heard anything from NIST on what happened with the Surfside condominium collapse that Jeff has also talked about on his channel.

Regarding the mandrill/inner metal liner, carbon fiber rifle barrels are basically machined down until there’s a thin liner, then CF is wrapped around to rebuild the strength lost. It makes for a very light product but there are issues… the barrels warp after a few rounds as the heat causes different rates of expansion between the cf and steel. Shooters need to decide if they want to sight their rifles cold or hot because it makes a big difference. The differential is much greater than a traditional steel barrel. With all that said, I think an inner liner would actually cause more problems due to different rates of thermal expansion from the extreme temperatures, along with how you would keep the two bonded together as the pressure compressed everything. With that said, I wonder how a thick layer of pure cf reacts to extreme temperature differences and compression. I have to believe it would cause layer separation after multiple dives but 🤷🏼‍♂️ I think Oceangates lack of testing to failure and lack of destructive testing was their greatest sin.

@cottoncandisandi6109

7 ай бұрын

This !!! The dude they fired , had written on his warning report the outside was covered in tiny holes , " like Swiss cheese " . After every dive there was weakness in certain areas . Did they just cover the outside with another layer of CF ? Did they do pressure testing after every use ? Or was every dive a suicide mission ? 🤔 Just creepy and highly , hinky !

@llibressal

7 ай бұрын

The thermal expansion differential is a good point but I'd posit that, that could have been a possible cause of the implosion having two wildly different thermal expansion coefficients fighting each other. (Domes vs CF cylinder)

@SloverOfTeuth

7 ай бұрын

It's one thing to design something on paper, another thing to prove the technology. It looks like they just didn't do the latter.

@fuglbird

7 ай бұрын

20°C difference between the surface and the bottom isn't exactly an extreme temperature difference.

Shelf life of parts in the most extreme conditions. Engineering must assume the worst case. Stockton intentionally avoided basic engineering for reasons only psychiatrists could examine. How he was able to maintain a team of support is what is quite odd. One would hope everyone would quit and say, "If you wish to kill yourself to prove a point, do it alone.". Holding Stockton's beer was not what I expected.

@Gainsatron

7 ай бұрын

My guess is he’s a good salesman and did a lot of gaslighting.

@pmarreck

7 ай бұрын

“Rizz” is a hell of a drug

@cheezyquackers3981

7 ай бұрын

There's a mental picture I have of him as a little boy in a bubble bath playing with a toy submarine, saying " Toot toot!" And saying, " Aw, Mom just five more minutes?" Seems he never outgrew it.

@GTP2-zg9tn

7 ай бұрын

I use to do the same with my toy boats and subs. That's why I loved bath time.@@cheezyquackers3981

@CarbonatedGravy

7 ай бұрын

He was trying to make a submersible trip accessible by cutting out the red tape he saw as extremely excessive, with the viewpoint that it’s possible to build one far cheaper and a little bit of lying to himself because it was his dream and he was deeply invested already. Seems worse in hindsight of course but to me it’s really not too difficult to understand his poor decisions (which he was confident enough in to ride every dive himself)

One of the more important lessons learned from my years as a materials scientist in the 80s/90s is that carbon fiber composites are great in tension, and really lousy in compression. The situation is made worse when the fiber is wound mono-directional, as this appeared to be as it was laid up on the mandrel. Strength can be fine-tuned as succesive layers are oriented at specific angles to one another. But in a compressive environment, most of the strength is governed by the resin matrix, and in that situation the material is subject to buckling and delamination. We would NEVER consider this kind of material for a high compression environment!😞 Who engineered this damn thing?!🙄

@djcoinlaundry

7 ай бұрын

Is this a copypasta?

@cynthiagonzalez658

7 ай бұрын

The owner said so.

@josemartinezfumado3240

7 ай бұрын

Totally agree....great explanation

@jimjoe9945

7 ай бұрын

How do you explain a carbon Fibre wing? The upper wing surface is in compression when loaded.

@cal-native

7 ай бұрын

@@jimjoe9945 the pre-preg laminates are usually laid up at angles to one another, the wing is generally internally supported with a spar or webbing, and compressive loading of the upper skin is pretty miniscule compared to the ~6000 PSI hoop stress that this mono-directionally wound tube experienced. As the tube imploded, the shear stress at the joints to the titanium end caps would have easily and instantly caused the glue to fail.

I always enjoy hearing updates about the Titan submersible. I know this story is kind of old, but it's just a really interesting topic.

@keetahbrough

Ай бұрын

Life on a conveyor belt, eh?

For starters, don't forget that the US Coast Guard is still part of the US Military. Hence, there will be certain protocols regarding information classification as they are investigative lead. That is why I personally think we haven't heard much info from them. Thanks, Jeff, for updating us with what there is so far.

@karlbrundage7472

7 ай бұрын

A bit of clarification: The USCG is an "armed service" in that it has weapons of war (cannon-caliber guns and machineguns) on some of its ships and has authorization to use lethal force when necessary. However, it falls under the umbrella of the Department of Homeland Security, not the Department of Defense...Prior to 9/11 and the formation of DHS it was a branch of the Treasury Department, as the original mission of the "Coast Guard" (not called that in those days) was that of inspection of vessels entering US ports to assess the tariffs to be placed on the cargoes.

@jeremymatthies726

7 ай бұрын

@@karlbrundage7472 Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware they fell under Homeland. Appreciate the info.

@jamesplymire5342

7 ай бұрын

​@@karlbrundage7472U.S.C.G. is still a branch of the U.S. military along with the Space Force.

@achyshaff5653

7 ай бұрын

@@karlbrundage7472 the USCG is 100% part of the Military. They are under Homeland Security during peacetime or can work under the Navy during times of war….but are always part of the Military (actually one of the oldest). The USCG has 11 missions where the other branches each focus on 1. Sorry .. just wanted to clarify. From a USCG family🇺🇸

@jeremymatthies726

7 ай бұрын

@@achyshaff5653 appreciate your service.

Thanks for keeping us updated! Hopefully we get the full story soon

@jeffostroff

7 ай бұрын

I hope so too!

@Icebearhaswares

7 ай бұрын

What full story? Safety didn’t matter. That old rich guys ego did. Got what was coming.

@grahamcifuentes4451

7 ай бұрын

I wonder what happened to the front bow nose forward leading dome! LoL

At 4.49 you can see the gasket has been ripped out or near a hole. Love the videos. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the update, ever since this happened I have been obsessed & gone down so many rabbits holes of learning about submersibles, diving, free diving, technical diving, everything on the Mariana Trench,ship wrecks and much more LOL 😂😂😂😂😂

@paulburns3039

7 ай бұрын

James Cameron diving to Mariana Trench was good and the technology involved like tiny glass spheres set in resin to absorb the massive pressures down there!!

An additional inner cylinder might only be beneficial if the failure was due to excessive flexing of the carbon fiber composite (CFC) under cyclic loading; perhaps flexing caused progressive delamination of the CFC matrix resin. But, a better stiffening would be adding internal ring bulkheads & stringers (as is used on aircraft fuselages or conventional subs & ships). This might allow a thinner hull shell at the cost of reduced useful internal volume. A bigger OD hull would be needed to restore internal clearances/volume driving a spiral of additional weights. I imagine the FEM structural analysis of a plain cylinder is easier (cheaper) than a complex structure of bulkheads, stringers and shell. And I have no idea how Boeing/Airbus makes such fuselages with CFC skins (or even if 5hey do). Ships & subs made of metals generally are welded. However, if the failure wasn’t due to excessive flexing such stiffeners wouldn’t help. The one Ti ring that was recovered with a torn rim/flange suggests it was subjected to some excessive loading. Was this the failure point or post failure overload? IDK.

Thanks Jeff for this additional commentary and analysis on Oceangate. I can only imagine the legal implications and I'd guess that information regarding this disaster is extremely sensitive. You are probably the most thorough and independent voice of reason regarding the whole matter.

I want to know what they mean by human remains. I can't fathom how anything that was of substantial size would've remained there, given sea creatures and currents.

@simonbone

7 ай бұрын

Since these are "presumed" human remains, I'd imagine something like a smear on the surfaces of items being brought up.

@mikefochtman7164

7 ай бұрын

@@simonboneAgreed. Or some other very 'personal effect' like a bit of clothing, eyeglasses or dental remnants. Frankly, probably best to not show or specifically identify what they found, just to protect the next of kin and loved ones undue grief.

@froggy2632

7 ай бұрын

Anything of human remains left of any size would be crab food.

@user-lv7ph7hs7l

7 ай бұрын

​@@mikefochtman7164 Still eventually we'll probably seen it, it's a medical curiosity and pretty unique. If you're crazy enough you can look at the pictures from Byford in the official report.

@zapfanzapfan

7 ай бұрын

Maybe the "rust" on the inside of the aft dome is burnt human paste...

Thanks Jeff for keeping us all up to date. Looking forward to your next video after the public hearing, I didn't catch the date that will be.

@jeffostroff

7 ай бұрын

They did not announce a public hearing day to yet

Jeff, I've followed this incident closely (morbid fascination and areas of interest) and your coverage of it has been among the most factual I've seen. Thanks for keeping it interesting and real without sensationalizing it.

Man, you’re good at this. Glad you’re doing this channel.

@bettyjane6684

7 ай бұрын

🙌👍👌

Hey thanks for sharing this. I was beginning to think we heard the last of it all.

@jeffostroff

7 ай бұрын

No worries! There will also be public hearings as well

Thanks, Jeff, for your OceanGate Titan update! 👍

I appreciate the update Jeff. Thank you.

Interesting things about the rear dome visible in the photo: - The titanium ring that bolted to the dome is completely missing - No bolts or stubs of bolts visible in the bolt holes around the edge - What I assume is the O-ring that sealed between the rear dome and the ring is visible, clearly torn in multiple places All of which would seem to support the proposition that the carbon fiber cylinder imploded and consequently tore the ring clean off the dome. I don't know if the view port failing would achieve that result.

I work in oceanographic surveying as an enginer on the equipment used in that feild. If i had to guess about that marks on the outside of the dome id say it was seabed residue. Depends where you are but seabed can often be a grey clay like mud and it can easy stick to things that land in it. That brown mark may be corrosion but it wouldnot come just from the titanium. If some other metal material had landed inside the dome and sitting there in contact it may have started corroding. This can when you have two different metals together as one will act like an annode and corrode. The corrosion can then stain the titanium surface. Thats what i think that is but it’s impossible to know for sure. Personally i think the carbon fibre gave way or the glue bond to the titanium rings it’s between two different materials moving and acting differently. Its not really a thing you should do for a pressure hull to such depths.

Appreciate the update video! I saw a news article about the new debris earlier but didn't have time to read it. Much easier to take in and comprehend with you explaining it all 🙌

I imagine the point of failure was most likely the carbon fiber hull. Probably right in the center of the cylinder. Supposedly they heard the "cracking" sound prior to failure. And they said they couldn't pinpoint where the cracking sound was emanating from. That says to me it has to be the carbon fiber and not the acrylic window that failed. They would have been able to tell if the sound was coming from the window. That being said.. the window I imagine is still intact but given the way it was engineered to fit in the port hole, with the outside pressure securing the window in place essentially, it will be difficult to locate because it most likely was shot from the port hole like a bullet from the implosion and sudden change in pressure from the inside.

Jeff, this is what you do best. You're channel and your content is so fascinating to me. Thk you for all your updates.

@jeffostroff

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for coming back to watch More videos. I love producing these for all of you.

Another top quality production from the master! Thanks Jeff.

Thank you for the update!

Incorporating the mandrel could have been a problem for the overall weight. Earlier deep sea craft used steel pressure vessels and even though they are hollow they will not float. If you make a steel pressure vessel strong enough to resist the water pressure it will be too heavy to float so it will need some other means to achieve neutral buoyancy of the system. Using a pressure vessel of carbon fiber and titanium they were able to make the pressure vessel much lighter so it could have neutral buoyancy much easier.

@adamjb21

7 ай бұрын

Deepsea challenger used 2 inch thick steel pressure vessel

@billj5645

7 ай бұрын

@@adamjb21 The pressure vessel weighs more than twice as much as the water it displaces, they had to add a lot of flotation material outside the sphere to allow it to float to the surface. The same thing was done with Trieste built much earlier. A key comparison with Titan Sub is that Challenger had a 4' diameter sphere with 2.5" thick steel walls, Titan if much larger, is a cylinder instead of a sphere, and is built with much lighter materials that are less strong in compression.

@joeshmoe7967

7 ай бұрын

Yes they made it lighter and paid a heavy price for the weight savings. The cylinder could have been 1 inch titanium wrapped with the fibre. Still might not have been enough, but certainly better. They should have tested until total failure, then built new and improved versions. This was always going to eventually fail. Short cuts were made, experienced advice totally ignored. RIP the passengers but RIH for Rush.

@yambo59

5 ай бұрын

Aircraft carriers and massive container ships weigh thousands of tons and they float, surely a little bitty submersible could be made of steel and float. In fact, all the thick steel submersibles up until now have never had a failure, maybe rush could have taken a page from that book of well proven research and design and not killed everyone with his narcissistic attitude, instead he was living in the land of denial and found others willing to do likewise, they should have been smart enough not to go in the first place there were enough red flags to fill a semi truck and still they followed like the sheeple they were.

@billj5645

5 ай бұрын

@@yambo59 None of the thick steel submersibles built up until now would float on its own. The thickness of steel required to resist the ocean pressure at those depths makes the submersible too heavy to float. They have to rig up some external means to float it, look up information on Trieste (bathyscaphe). It is difficult to make an external flotation because it also has to resist the high water pressures. It is fairly easy to do the basic calculations on stress in the steel shell of the submersible and compare to steel strength to show the thickness required and this is without allowance for safety factors and irregularities in the shell such as portholes and hatches. By comparison a surface ship has a very much thinner exterior shell because it doesn't have to resist much water pressure so the ship is a lot more air than it is steel. I should add- we have higher strength steels used in steel structures now than before, that would obviously affect the calculations. I don't think it would make enough difference to make the submersible float on its own though. Of course there are higher strength steels available than are used in building structures but they become somewhat brittle and require heat treating to achieve their strength so they would be difficult to use to form a sphere, maybe not impossible if you want to badly enough. However I don't know at what point the brittleness would become a problem. You could have the same problem as with titan sub where it just fails suddenly without warning. That's one of the reasons why these steels aren't used in buildings.

Thanks for keeping us updated on this Jeff. I'm not sure if you noticed on the top of the dome where the two girls are looking into it, there appears to be beads of caulk like material sticking out. That would make sense if the carbon fiber was sealed into the dome and the crushed by pressure it would cause that caulk sealant to be torn out in such a way. This would favor the theory that the main body was crushed rather than a porthole failure, wouldn't it?

@bradsanders407

7 ай бұрын

Well duh. Everyone knows it was the carbon fiber that failed.

Thank you for continuing to cover this for us all!

I don't think the steel sleeve would have made a major impact. It might have allowed for one or two more dives but that's about it. The way the carbon fiber was laid for the environment they wanted to function in was never going to be a long term solution. One dive was all this configuration was good for and even then it could have failed. I would imagine the biggest piece of carbon fiber they found was about the size of your hand.

@G-ra-ha-m

7 ай бұрын

Steel would rust, but a thick titanium one - they'd still be intact.

@chriswirges5202

7 ай бұрын

Their development team said if it was heavier, it won't work. The lack of testing, the way the composite fibers were laid, I don't think it would have made a difference @@G-ra-ha-m

@G-ra-ha-m

7 ай бұрын

@@chriswirges5202 Heavier? Yes, of course, air is being replaced with titanium. But Archimedes has an solution for that :D

Good update. If the mandrel was left in place it could add more support for the carbon fiber wrapped around it. The wall diameter and alloy specs of the mandrel is important. Some method of bonding or joining of the two different materials is probably needed. As for weight and bouyancy would also be different. I don't know the exact calculations tho.

@G-ra-ha-m

7 ай бұрын

I still can't wrap my head around the fact they all jump in and go down, without weighing the total mass first, so check it's correct. A decent titanium mandrel should have been used and kept, and the carbon fibre just as a bouancy jacket.

@BiggusD77

7 ай бұрын

@@G-ra-ha-m If the communication leak is real, they lost buoyancy rather unexpectedly, not over time. So I don't think weighing it beforehand would make much of a difference. They descended too rapidly and increasingly rapidly from the moment they were in the water. I think it is logical to investigate what was different this time around, and there is a fact that sticks out in that regard: they towed the sub on a barge. The jolts and shaking the barge would go through, and general exposure to the elements (sunlight/heat) could constitute a weakening of the glue or microfractures of the carbon fibre. This, along with the fractures happening each timed it dived, causing popping and cracking noises, could have negatively affected buoyancy.

@G-ra-ha-m

7 ай бұрын

@@BiggusD77 I think what you said: "They descended too rapidly and increasingly rapidly from the moment they were in the water." Indicates they were too heavy when they entered the water. What mechanism was there. for checking the weight, when it was strapped to a floating sled in rough sea? Agreed with the terrible transportation, must have shaken it to bits!!

@bananian

7 ай бұрын

But what's the point of having the carbon fibre if they're just going to use steel underneath?

@PatLyoutubepage

7 ай бұрын

@@bananian having the carbon fiber wrap over a steel tube can add strength and stiffness to the overall structure with less weight compared to an all metal alloy with equivalent dimensions.

Thank you for the update!!! I love your educational theories and explanations!!! You are not only a wonderful engineer but you are a great teacher as well!!! You know how to explain things so that I actually understand what you are talking about!!!

This has become my very favorite channel to get Titan info from. Thanks for all your hard work.

Appreciate the new information- the lack of media updates is baffling

Two places I never want to go. Deep sea and Mars. They'll never hear you scream. Anything goes wrong and the jig is up.

Love the videos. Not just because it’s realistic and full of useful information, but also because of the perfect narration skills

Thankyou for the update.

Some YTers claim overall using the carbon fiber composite (CFC) cylinder reduced the weight by 7 tons. If made of steel the mandrel it would have weighed around 75% more than titanium (steel 7.75 to 8.05 g/cc versus Ti around 4.5 g/cc). (Assumes steel & Ti tube have the same dimensions & strength.) Titanium alloys are used where most properties of steel are desired with the weight of aluminum (steel temperature & fatigue resistance compared to Al) and the cost & difficulties of working Ti can be tolerated. Clearly Ti alloys are the choice for extreme depth submersibles because every kg or lb requires a greater amount of overall buoyancy to rise to the surface. I’m not going to compare CFC to Ti because I do not readily have what the comparable thicknesses needed for equal structural integrity. I do seem to recall the CFC hull was 5” thick while the Ti end domes were 3.5” thick (don’t quote me plz). But the domes benefit from their shape (& the support of the CFC cylinder along the open rim) in resisting the crushing pressure.

Maybe the "corrosion" is what is left of the crew? Burnt human paste... Anyway, nice to know they recovered the aft dome, that was an unknown from when they unloaded the parts this summer. Maybe the other part is the aft ring.

@adamrussell7119

6 ай бұрын

Could possibly be human paste from one of the crew members or its passengers or what's left of that person sadly

thank you thank you thank you for your continued coverage of this!!!

For the cost of a few hundred bucks they could have employed real-time monitoring of the hull deflection with sub-micron resolution using an interferometer.

What is not stated anywhere in the press or in these briefings is that the FBI is very heavily involved as well. Although this is a marine investigation, it could become criminal at some point. Any handling of potential human remains, would be under the jurisdiction of the FBI.

If they would have done the carbon fiber correctly with a crossing pattern, they would have had a significantly better chance

@CChissel

7 ай бұрын

Shouldn’t have used carbon fiber at all, honestly

@extec101

7 ай бұрын

@@CChissel everybody say that carbon fiber is not a material to build subs from yet i seen alot of coments "make it another way and it could work" more people then rush that dont get material physics.

@extec101

7 ай бұрын

no just no, carbon is like a shoping bag it stands to hold load aka stuff in it but is not designed to carry load from the outside then it just colapse.

Thank you for the update.

With all the money this company was charging. You'd think they'd want to KEEP making money? So why did they design the worst structure to handle the stresses it was being subjected to? In no way should they have been using that submersible at depth. Especially those insane depths.. it wasn't designed to handle compressive forces & temperature changes at the level they pushed it to..

Thanks Jeff for update. Leaving the mandrel in certainly would not have hurt in this case. It would make the hull thicker. Also, depending on how it’s connected to the caps it might have helped support more longitudinal loads. However, probably the reason they did not leave it in is due to differential expansion with temperature. This would cause the two cylinders to rub against each other. Over time this can’t be good, and it might have caused a large enough differential to buckle under the deep loads. Bottom line is that it was a dumb idea to make a sub out of carbon fiber.

Great update! Good work. My own opinion is that all of the occupants were aware of the risks. It's a horrible tragedy, but no different than a mountaineering expedition gone wrong. There are no other carbon fiber deep sea vessels carrying humans (that I know of), so no worries of a repeat disaster. Prayers for them all and God bless their loved ones.

@loosilu

7 ай бұрын

I have a heard time believing they knew they had a 90% chance of dying that day.

@imactuallyded

7 ай бұрын

Except the 19 year old. He went for his dad and was reportedly nervous and “didn’t feel up to it” according to his aunt.

@dennisnewman678

7 ай бұрын

​@@loosiluthey had to sign a waiver that stated several times that the experimental vessel could fail and death would follow so they has to have a pretty decent idea of the danger but they also did what we all do every day and think the worst is absolutely not possible and will not happen.

@user-sb1vz9pv5y

5 ай бұрын

That's not the point or reason they investigate and it's discussed. There's nothing anyone can do for them and I agree they knew tge risk. But investigating and discussing the tragedy could save others from the same fate.

IMO- When the Titan started its decend on the last dive, it was diving faster than normal. When the problems occurred, messages from the Titan said they dropped the weights trying to accend but it didn't work. The sub then dropped the frame to eliminate all excess weight so they could accend faster due to the noises being heard in the aft of the sub. The sub also used its motors trying to get this sub back to the surface. Why wasn't the sub coming up? What made it so heavy? When they designed this sub, they put all the O2 tanks and electrical in the rear of the sub and sealed this off from the passanger area. They used a strong epoxy to glue the parts together. I think this sub was leaking in the aft compartment. Since this area was sealed off from the passanger area, they didn't notice it. As the sub went deeper, the leak became worse and filled the aft area causing the exessived weight. They were having electrical problems during the dive also and everyone knows salt water and electronics don't mix. The sub eventually gave in to the ocean's extreme pressure. So sad.

Thanks for the update

Is it possible that the acrylic porthole melted with the heat from the implosion? Acrylic melts at 320 degrees Fahrenheit, which is well below the heat released during implosion.

It's a shame that they used an inferior product between the two titanium hulls. There should have been a Quality Control Inspection before all those people embarked on such a journey. Thank you for all your technical commentary as it's greatly appreciated. I want to take this opportunity to thank you for the explanation of the apartment complex that collapsed in Miami Beach, FL. The way you explained it with the measurements really made me look at apartment buildings' structures when I would pass one while riding in a car. Looking at the Twin Towers collapse makes you wonder about the Building Codes. Although, that was an unusual catastrophic event. Thanks again for your insight.

Thanks for the update your my number 1 channel for titan updates.

Great to hear an update on this. i didn't realize the aft wasn't pulled up in the first go. I guess when the pictures came out it was just speculation that they got it. Looking forward to the press briefing someday

Thanks for keeping us updated about this. It will be interesting if they can learn enough about what actually did happen, specific failure points , etc. to help advance material science. For instance if it was the pattern they used when winding the fibers to form the shell. Perhaps if they used a crisscross pattern the carbon fiber shell could have handled the pressure changes. IDK, I find it interesting from a practical use perspective.

@pcka12

7 ай бұрын

It was 'an epoxy shell' reinforced with carbon fibre (like GRP)

If I remember and understood correctly, there sadly was no possible way for any to survive even if it had not imploded because they had neither a way to evacuate the people, nor the means to retrieve the titan to the surface. Which makes it even more horrible, in my opinion, that Mr Rush cut all of the corners that he did.

Another great video, thanks.

That’s adhesive residue near the mounting flange that the aft equipment was fixed to. So they bolted a frame to that and used adhesives to affix other devices, tanks, or mechanicals.

My guess is that if the steel mandrel used transiently in the construction of the hull had stayed in place, the buoyancy of the vessel would have been reduced to negative so it would never have been able to ascent after the dive.

@thewhitefalcon8539

7 ай бұрын

Yes. If the steel would have worked, they would have just used a steel hull.

When something goes wrong like this catastrophe, investigations are tight lipped for a few reason, like lawsuits, and even criminal charges. I haven’t followed this in a while but it’s straight up quiet for a good reason.

@jeffostroff

7 ай бұрын

Let's make some noise!

@tboneforreal

6 ай бұрын

​@@jeffostroffGood luck. We've been waiting two years for a final report on what happened in the Surfside condo collapse. The investigators are on their own time-line.

Great video Jeff!

Titanium doesnt corrode. Technically it can oxidize, but it actually leaves a tougher protevtive layer on the outside, that's one reason the material is so amazing

I can understand why they're being tight-lipped about their investigation; kudos to them for as few leaks as they have had. They want to make sure that they have all the information they could possibly have before releasing their findings and final opinion. Due to the people who were lost, it's pretty safe to say that there will be some six- or seven-figure lawsuits filed, and the investigation itself will be used and highly-scrutinized.

Standard NTSB technique is to put everything back together to see what has deformed, missing, fractured etc, and also then testing individual pieces microscopically etc for damage or contamination. I think some of those scrapes etc, may have been made when the electronics package was explosively removed from its connections to the inner capsule and/or any fastenings to the rear dome. The scrapes/smudges whatever look linear or where a glued on item may have been torn off.

I was just wondering about this today, thanks

This is so informative!!! Fantastic reporting!🌻🌼🐝

The steel mandrel would have added strength, but this submersible was already only marginally able to float. All that steel would have added too much weight. Remember the Titan cylinder was built of carbon fiber to save weight.

@Random-dq8ew

7 ай бұрын

But why save weight?

@olasek7972

6 ай бұрын

@@Random-dq8ew????? to make it neutrally buoyant and avoid large floatation devices you have to try to save weight. I suggest you watch a recently made video on the topic.

I'm a few mins from Newport CG Station at Brenton Point......bringing out the 200x zoom lens

@jeffostroff

7 ай бұрын

let me know if you find anything. They may have also rented warehouse space.

You're the go-to source for these reports...! Thanks... Liked Subscribed.

The lack of photos of debris is frustrating.

Jeff, I too would like to know if any of the carbon fiber pieces were found. Maybe they were so small and lightweight that they floated away? I would think some the carbon fiber might have stuck to some of the metal, or maybe not. Thanks for posting the update!

@Murgoh

7 ай бұрын

Metal is probably much easier to find on the bottom of the ocean than plastic as metal is denser so a sonar will "see" it easier and also electrically conductive so it can be picked up by magnetic sensors.

@hb4196

7 ай бұрын

From other videos at the time the event happened, I remember several describing in some detail how when CF imploded, it would shatter into very tiny (microscopic?) pieces, not recoverable.

Evidently the crew knew the hull was failing well in advance of imploding. They were unable to generate enough lift to adequately control the descent and then were unable to ascend to the surface. They were about to die and knew it.

I am ready to hear more about what exactly was collected by the Coast Guard. A new detailed report...

My thoughts always circle back around to: the fact that folks KNEW it had imploded, & no survivors possible, VERY early in the game. I always wonder what they were thinking during the DAYS of 24 hour news coverage this story had…. I mean, it’s MIND BOGGLING how much time, MONEY, speculating & calculating things like exactly how much air they had, & even TIMERS ticking down those minutes… AND all the hope (expectation, really) that they were all ALIVE… But to me, it just feels really weird that so may COUNTRIES were able to band together for this search, but it REALLY ended up being nothing but a SUPER expensive national “Team building activity.” SO many man hours & $ wasted that it’s CRAZY!!😮

@captainscarlett1

7 ай бұрын

Agreed. I knew they were all gone the moment I heard about it. Nobody survives an underwater accident. You're right also that the 'rescue' effort was just an exercise, seemingly purposeful use of men and resources. Everyone went home a hero for doing their best.

@tomr6955

7 ай бұрын

Because the media are crooks and want viewers/revenue. They all knew it was gone straight away but wanted to keep up false hope for profits..

Thanks for reporting the update! The white residue might be sediment.

Thank you. Keep working, good luck.

Thanks!

I am very sure that it would have seriously extended the lifetime of the carbon fiber if they have engineered in a steel base layer. (not necessary the one they they have used for the manufacturing). The carbon fiber composite was proven to withstand the high pressures, the problem was that the cycling delaminated it. Having a steel "core" could have acted as a way to lower the shrinking of the composite under load, decreasing the cycle load. Unfortunately the way they have handled safety would have likely caused a tragedy anyway, just later. (like 10 or 20 dives later) There are other issues like thermal cycling, which could have gotten worse this way, but that was already an issue because of the endcaps. They should have experimented with some interesting combinations, just not with humans inside...

@chrismaverick9828

7 ай бұрын

What I find ironic/moronic is the amount of emphasis the CEO put on the aerospace field to be radical in the way this was constructed, yet he probably never took into account how pressure cycles are one of the main limiters of service life in aircraft. The fact that it is also one of the specific items you design into a submarine from the word go and he seems to have left that one behind in his haste to be revolutionary and forward thinking. He was a fool with too much money and ego, plain and simple.

@andrewseaman7012

7 ай бұрын

As far as I know, the carbon fibre composite was never tested to withstand external pressure of anything similar to what one encounters at the ocean floor. In fact, carbon fibres are very resistant in tension but the resistance in flexing and pressure of the composite is pretty much unknown.

@chrismaverick9828

7 ай бұрын

@@andrewseaman7012 The fact it made a few trips down already shows it wasn't 300% unsound, but the lack of follow-up inspections and realization of material compression cycles being more serious than they thought is a big key to the failure.

@alongdale

7 ай бұрын

Would it have helped to have triaxial wound the carbon with a few aramid layers to take some of the flexing forces?

@staciasmith5162

7 ай бұрын

​@@chrismaverick982814% of scheduled dives made.

My take was that, when it imploded all inside (in a flash) got pushed out the front window, at the same time, In an instant. I wish someone in recovery of the wreckage would find the phone or chip that had that recording. It is down there. They may even have it but it is too much for earthlings to process. Or so they think.

@ingvarhallstrom2306

6 ай бұрын

That's pretty much it. The hull implodibg momentarily. But don't forget the end caps! They would have been pressed with an enormous force towards both ends of the hull and with the hull imploding the caps would've moved towards each other with a tremendous force like magnets, effectively functioning as a piston forcing any human remains to be pushed towards the window and squeezed out of it like toothpaste. The acrylic glass is still missing, so are the ring that was attached to it from the outside together with all the bolts that was screwed from the outside, with the force pushing from inside being such that it sheared all the bolts right off.

Whats crazy (imo) both titanium end caps were recovered.....if he only would've made the cab titanium....😢

I’ve enjoyed many, many dozens of your videos-as you educate viewers on topics as varied as this Titan implosion, the Surfside condo collapse…and even deals on tools at Home Depot.

They released those text files months ago. It was taking on water and sinking to fast. The pin hole leak was like a laser and eventually it cut into the crew area. They drop the weight to return to surface but barely rose any. Then they started sinking again and that's when they lost contact.

the submersible should have been tethered to the mothership, at least for the journey down to operating level (at the Titanic depth). By that I mean redundant steel cables with the capacity to bring the thing up. They could also include into the tether a means of video and voice communication. When the aft hull breached and started bringing in seawater, the craft was too heavy to resurface with only those tiny propellers driven by tiny electric motors. What you want on the mothership is a very heavy-duty drum-type winch to bring the thing up, much like pulling up an anchor. Another extraordinarily stupid design choice was that they bolt you in! Even if you are at a safe depth, you are not going anywhere. (ʘ_ʘ). Also, and I've heard otherwise knowledgeable people claim otherwise: carbon fiber is good for tensile forces, but not compressive. You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to understand this. Pulling on each end of a string shows the string has tensile strength. Now try pushing a piece of string together from each end. It is very limp, very weak, and offers no resistance whatsoever to your compressive force. That's why carbon fiber is fine for aerospace work where the internal area of the craft is pressurized, but NOT for deep sea diving where the EXTERIOR is pressurized. Oceangate was relying entirely on the compressive strength of the epoxy resin the fiber was encapsulated within. Where was I when they needed some common sense? Tragic loass.

@darkoz1692

7 ай бұрын

I don't think it was a matter of whether it was pressurised from the inside or outside. In Earth orbit a space craft has an internal pressure of 1 atmosphere while at the ocean depth that the Titanic is at the external pressure is a massive 375 atmospheres in comparison. Carbon fibre might do the job in a vacuum but it should never have been used on a deep sea submersible, that and the arrogant stupidity of Oceangate's CEO was the cause of this tragedy.

@mikefochtman7164

7 ай бұрын

You raise some excellent points. But I don't think adding a tether would have been an improvement. 13000 feet of steel rope for example, you're talking something on the order of 20+ tons of 'tether' just to allow going straight down. More if you want to allow maneuvering about. Of course you might use a synthetic material that is less weight. But then there's the issue of entanglement. If the submersible has a tether that has enough slack to allow them to move around the Titanic, it's enough slack to snag on any number of objects. Now your safety tether has become a liability. Or, if the winch on board the mothership fails, the tether itself might very well prevent the sub from being able to surface even with no issues on the submersible. Remember, any leak '... bringing in seawater', at those depths is deadly. Even if they started pulling up on your tether as soon as leakage was reported, by the time you reel in +10000 feet of cable, the thing is flooded completely and all are dead anyway. So it adds nothing to the safety, increases the risk of a problem, and the cost of the tether and a ship capable of handling it would be very high.

@robertstallard7836

7 ай бұрын

@@mikefochtman7164 Not to mention that the sheer weight of the line, not to mention currents acting along its length, would make manoevering the small submersible attached to the end of it impossible.

@thewhitefalcon8539

7 ай бұрын

You were there, and you were fired

@mikefochtman7164

7 ай бұрын

@@robertstallard7836Yes, for a 1 inch steel cable, that's over 12 tons if I did my math right. If the hoist on the mothership fails, the steel cable itself would prevent the submersible from surfacing regardless of any issues on the submersible. (unable to 'lift' the 6500 foot long 'loop' of cable). Of course there are other materials besides steel, perhaps something close to neutrally bouyant. But still, more drawbacks than advantages to any tether in this application.

I'm surprised it lasted like 6 or 7 dives before it gave out. The carbon fiber did better than expected under extreme pressures, but everyone says fatigue is what caused the collapse. I hope the Coast Guard explains it one day.

Great detailed explanation......surely I will follow ...... Good job!

I've always wondered why the whole vessel wasn't a combination of mostly titanium with stainless aspects.

@realdeal8607

7 ай бұрын

Cheaped out.

@yeesenchai

7 ай бұрын

Wild guess but different metals and saltwater doesn’t go well.

@houseofsolomon2440

7 ай бұрын

@@yeesenchai Right. I was under impression that those two metals were compatible & not particularly corrosive (or at least acceptably so).

@RAndrewKReed

7 ай бұрын

Weight and bouancy.

@hb4196

7 ай бұрын

Yes. No need to reinvent the wheel. Titanium has been very successfully used for decades.

The Human Remains ended up being Stockton's toupee.

The carbon fiber came up in the white bags in June. It looks like fiberglass house insulation from the way it shattered. There was also equipment in class spheres outside the pressure vessel under the aft fairing. This is a 100% non starter on manned submersibles because if (when) they rupture it’s like setting off a depth charge and can be enough concussion to trigger an implosion of the main pressure vessel.

Glad you're on top of this.

White liquid substance could be salt residue.

@jeffostroff

7 ай бұрын

But there sure was a lot of it too much I think to be just salt why wouldn't it be all over the Dome?

Being down there for 3 1/2 months, I would think the only remains would be bone fragments. Flesh wouldn't last long down there.

Looks like the other metal ring/sleeve that was bolted onto it is completely missing, including the bolts. Also the o-ring in the groove seems broken in many places, so maybe the weak spot was there. Maybe bolts weren't tightened evenly.

@Murgoh

7 ай бұрын

The bolts are only necessary to secure the end caps at the surface so they won't fall off. After diving the external pressure will keep them in place even if the bolts were removed.

@TVTransmo

7 ай бұрын

Yet all the bolts have snapped, so something "violent" happened here. the bolts isn't my main suspect, but the broken rubber o-ring in the grove on the flange. As a former professional industrial glass fibre pipe system builder, I agree that the bolts are too few and too small to actually hold any load. So maybe that's the problem. The long distance between the bolts and high pressure pushing the pipe in between the bolts, deforming the pipe slightly. Pipe is less stiff in the ends and if they did not cut of the ends of the pipe after moulding, there might be a problem with wrong fibre direction and too much/little resin/epoxy compare to the amount of fibres.

Jeff, will you be covering the hearing in depth? I do hope so. Great content again ❤️

So, is it true that they found human remains?

@jeffostroff

7 ай бұрын

They confirmed it in the press release

@Ccyawn123

7 ай бұрын

Probably more like residue than remains

@ellabella6099

7 ай бұрын

@@Ccyawn123or bones 🦴

@SCHRANZ3040

7 ай бұрын

What did they find ?

It's great that both titanium ends have been salvaged. Bit of expired carbon Fibre, some Nintendo controllers, crazy glue, some power washing and bingo, you got an "almost" brand new submersible!

4 months?! It feels like it was last week

Excellent commentary and update.

Coast Guard, NTSB; Canadia NTSB; UK; France…??😵‍💫. What are they hiding???

@jeffostroff

7 ай бұрын

Each country sort of has an interest in this and France is investigating because PH Nargeolet was a French citizen, and of course the US had some involvement due to the company being located here and Canada had involvement because they were the port where it took off from, and UK is involved because there was British nationals in the sub