My uncle told me when he was studying engineering his professor told the class , If you ever design a bridge that fails you had better be standing under it.

@danteanderson9052

11 ай бұрын

Case in point

@turtlejeepjen314

11 ай бұрын

Very interesting!!!🙂🐢

@dwightl5863

11 ай бұрын

And Rush "was standing under it."

@esphilee

11 ай бұрын

The designer was in the sub. He is dead. If you design a bridge, you better make sure you design it properly like your children are sitting under it.

@lordeden2732

11 ай бұрын

That was what Roman builders were made to do. When the support frame for an arch or bridge was taken down the head builder was made to stand under it. There he made sure it was correctly built every time otherwise it meant he paid with his life.

The more I learn about this contraption, the more it seems this Rush character and his team of engineers at Oceangate have put in it the same amount of sense as the dudes that used to close themselves into wooden barrels and plunged from the Niagara Falls.

@brianblackford2224

11 ай бұрын

Rush had no 'team of engineers'. No properly qualified and honest engineer would have associated his name with such a foolish and amateurish design. It was full of obvious and stupid engineering and materials errors. Sorry, but just thinking about Titan makes me angry at the arrogance and negligence involved.

@lorenzcassidy3960

11 ай бұрын

@@brianblackford2224 My bad. I should have added "so-called" or "self-styled" to the definition of team of engineers.... and I should have put that definition between the right and proper inverted commas.😅

@brianblackford2224

11 ай бұрын

@@lorenzcassidy3960 Maybe you're a better man than me; too kind to Rush and co.

@brianblackford2224

11 ай бұрын

Also, apologies to you for my unthinking discourtesy in criticizing your comment; it was rather late at night here. Incidentally, I am impressed by the number of engineers who are also annoyed by the numerous defects in Titan's design. Maybe we are engineers, not CEOs, because we are honest in analysing the design and its severe risks, and not accepting them.

@lorenzcassidy3960

10 ай бұрын

​@@brianblackford2224 Brian, no need to apologize really. I did not perceive your comment as "discourteous" at all. I did feel, though, your genuine frustration about this accident and its incredible mix of piss-poor engineering skills, wishful thinking, criminal negligence, recklessness, hubris, narcissism... and greed. And I'll be completely honest with you: I'm no engineer in any way, shape or form. I'm just a non-native English speaker guy that splices telecom cables for a living and that he's somehow "fashinated" about this whole tragedy in its many technical and human aspects. Regards and from Italy.

Nothing more interesting than to watch/ listen to an engineer who knows his facts well done to you

@freddan6fly

11 ай бұрын

He got it all wrong though. Compression of the hull causes compression of the fibres. The carbon fibres can't withstand compression. Like at all.

@stayathome2

10 ай бұрын

@@freddan6fly But how can it be used in race car construction, bicycle frames, etc.? I'm sure a car in a turn at 200mph at Indy is under compression loads.

@freddan6fly

10 ай бұрын

@@stayathome2 In bike frames etc, it is made to withstand expansion. Especially in Indy cars (or more extreme F1 circus) it is made to withstand the compression of collision, that is one time use.

@MrDunkycraig

10 ай бұрын

Fascinating thank you

Yes, submarines also share the tube-shaped body as the Titan submersible did, but no submarines go down to the depth at which the Titanic rests, 13,000 ft. At that depth, a ball shaped chamber has the best strength. This is one thing that people tried to point out to Stockton Rush, who ignored their concerns.

@markmcgoveran6811

11 ай бұрын

Close a ball shaped bears that huge load evenly all the way from a billion pounds that's what I asked to made it was on the outside of the sub down to zero when you take the cap off there's no pressure differential when you tried to cycle materials through that kind of load cycle you need to have a sphere. Any other geometry changes shape a little bit somewhere under the load and you will guarantee yourself a repetitive stress riser failure and when it fails it's going to be an instantaneous complete collapse.

@MrEgofreak

11 ай бұрын

The irony is it would have been cheaper two because of less surface area, but Stockton Rush did seem like a cheap and greedy bastard.

@Man_fay_the_Bru

10 ай бұрын

@@MrEgofreakyou hit the nail on the head, he was a cheap greedy bastard

@dx1450

10 ай бұрын

@@MrEgofreak But it probably would have been harder to wrap the carbon fiber in a spherical shape.

@markmcgoveran6811

10 ай бұрын

@@MrEgofreak I'm not sure it would have been cheaper by the time you had enough of volume in the sphere to hold enough people to be worth the trip. When you increase the volume of that sphere you increase a lot of the buckling problems that you could have and difficulties that would require a lot more material

Speaking as an electrical engineer myself, this video was amazing. You did an outstanding job explaining everything.

@eisbeinGermany

11 ай бұрын

its only because hes not a USA citizen, tto many people in USA thinking thy know evrything

@wesleywilliams1380

11 ай бұрын

Hey what's up buddy. I'm an electrical engineer also, great field to be in.

@janetkaylor1131

11 ай бұрын

​@@wesleywilliams1380MO

@wesleywilliams1380

11 ай бұрын

@@janetkaylor1131 Hi

@wesleywilliams1380

11 ай бұрын

@janetkaylor1131 what's MO?

I learned more from this 8 minute video than I have watching dozens of videos by other 'engineeers'. As others have said, the more I learn about the sub, the more appalled I get.

@LordHeath1972

11 ай бұрын

@@SuperNostalgia. All Hail King Jesus, the Saviour of the world.

@twoandtwo4

11 ай бұрын

@@SuperNostalgia. This is NOT a reply to the comment by HaggardPillockHD. Take your religion to an appropriate thread.

@ThatOpalGuy

11 ай бұрын

this is the basic mindset of every rich person on the planet. Their wealth, and the growth of it, matters more than any other life.

@ThatOpalGuy

11 ай бұрын

@@SuperNostalgia. as if. you CANNOT turn away from any sin, as the bible says, since we are all born sinners.

@byugrad1024

11 ай бұрын

Try thunderf00t. He has two excellent videos out there on the strange physics of explosive decompression.

I am not an engineer, but I have to tell you I feel that you explained it well. I understood everything that you said. Seems to me that with a CEO like him would have spent the money wisely and developed this vehicle in the correct manner. Not to take financial shortcuts. As a result all those people (including himself) paid with their lives. What makes this more horrible is that it could have been avoided.

@norbert.kiszka

11 ай бұрын

Could be avoided when they have enough money for this.

@dheyes803

11 ай бұрын

I’m also not an engineer but looking closely at the submersible I could see the linear gaps along the seams of the shell looked more than weak. Why did Rush decide that a seamed craft would be more sound as opposed to having a solid outer shell. Once I found out that the occupants were locked in from the outside and no way to escape blew me away.

@fuzzy-daddy83

11 ай бұрын

@@dheyes803 He wanted to make quick money to impress the people around him. It was all about money, and the more he could save the better. Safety wasn't the top of his list, as he said many times.

@Samuelfish2k

11 ай бұрын

@@dheyes803Escape to what? They’re thousands of feet deep what good is an escape hatch going to do?

@Bryan-Hensley

11 ай бұрын

​@@Samuelfish2kYes but they had surfaced and couldn't be found within the oxygen supply window, they could have died while completely in a safe situation

Thank you for a well presented explanation of this complex area. I was horrified to find that according to one video, fittings (such as lights) inside the hull had been attached by drilling into the pressure hull and presumably screwing the fixings into the hole, with or without epoxy filling. This struck me as a likely to create a serious "stress riser" point wherever this was done and seems especially dangerous if any holes were located away from the titanium supported ends in the main cylinder. Even partial thickness holes (as I imagine they were) would seem very dangerous given the enormous cyclical loading the hull was expected to endure. Your comments will be valued. Tim D (Old submariner - welded steel hulls and much lower depths, but still scary sometimes.)

@turbo_brian

11 ай бұрын

I saw this too and literally can't believe it. There has to be an inner wall. There's no way they're that dumb.

@captainwin6333

11 ай бұрын

They didn't drill into the pressure hull, there was an internal 'wall' which they attached things to. More concerning is the amount of consumer grade electrical equipment they had in that sub. Professional electrical equipment is built to higher standards ensuring they don't produce sparks or catch fire. Consumer grade stuff is built to a budget price.

@markmcgoveran6811

10 ай бұрын

Yeah I float on the surface and I study a lot engineering in the mathematics of this makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. Those guys had a billion pounds of pressure on that whole total adding up the surface area of the top of my head. When you have a single material like the iron submarines you do then then the whole thing reacts the same to load. You can get by with some funny shapes and weird things like that but you aren't going very deep with that round tube and has Spheres on the end. Even with one material and that shape you will get a stress rieser work makes the transition from complex curve that's a half sphere and simple curve that's the cylinder. When you have a material subjected to his extreme of stress as you had going to the bottom by the Titanic it doesn't take much to be what's called a stress riser. With something like a submarine when you have a stress riser in there and then you have the failure the geometry goes quick and the water comes in and cuts that whole open so fast you can't even blink. When you go even deeper you got to have a spherical shape so that nothing is a stress riser. I saw a guy in a one-man bathosphere dive deep. This thing is creaking and groaning like a tugboat pushing barges on cables except it's only eight feet across maybe. I'm watching this guy sink deeper and deeper just talk and calmly and I'm here in this thing in the hair standing up on the back of my neck and wham(). A 12 inch thick acrylic when do 18in a 🤞 perfectly round shape of course cracked all the way through exactly in half. Not one drop of water came in. I found out after this latest diving disaster with all the rich people getting her medicine for buying quarter million-dollar amusement ride tickets that those bathysphere is usually make one trip all the way to the bottom of hell and then they go to the Smithsonian institute so people can look at that cracked window forever. I have certain rules I live my life by I will run a spark plug wire all the way to failure if it's brakes or my own personal submarine that died thirteen thousand feet in the ocean I'll retire it when there's a lot of use left in it.

@danielmorse4213

10 ай бұрын

Omg. They drilled the holes. Wow

@markmcgoveran6811

10 ай бұрын

@@danielmorse4213 it wouldn't have made any difference if they drilled any holes or not that is a total of 1000000000 lb just like wait sitting on top of it and when those materials meeting flex like that going from a zero load to a billion pounds gets a weak spot no matter if you drill a hole in it or not. There are hellish loads and forces inside that material as it goes from one state to the other and it tears it apart no matter what it's made out of

Rush was warned by many many experts in deep sea diving, and his ego ignored them all, ironically just like the owners of the Titanic.

@SaptarshiDasgupta

11 ай бұрын

Bang on... absolutely true

@tericaclark4871

11 ай бұрын

Exactly 💯

@crazychrisfromessex1740

11 ай бұрын

The titanic hit an iceberg. It would have been fine without that small fact. Nothing like this deathtrap.

@tericaclark4871

11 ай бұрын

@@crazychrisfromessex1740 yeah captain was warned about the iceberg but yet he chose to make a stupid decision costing people their lives

@X3000Chan

11 ай бұрын

@@crazychrisfromessex1740There’s a lot more to Titanic’s sinking than that it just so happened to hit an iceberg head-on and that’s it. If that were it, we as a society, wouldn’t be as crazy obsessed with it as we are. The fact that human ego and hubris played quite a big contributor to the tragedy, is something that I think shakes people to their core, because humans are all the same in that we all understand ego and hubris and that the lessons bestowed upon us all when our egos get out of hand, are the same exact lessons that we received in ancient times - and interestingly, some people, really never learn the lesson. The story of Icarus is a warning about ego and hubris and thinking that you are god-like and can somehow trump nature and physics or outsmart them. The story of Icarus is from Ancient Greek mythology, and we’ve been taught that same lesson over and over since ancient times. Cheaper materials were used than in other ocean liners, corners were cut, production was sped up, lifeboats were obviously left out (because since it was “practically unsinkable” they wouldn’t need enough for every passenger). Look it up. There was a lot of ego and dismissing of concerns and hubris that aided in the tragedy of the Titanic. J.P. Morgan who was an investor had argued with the designer over wanting to use cheaper materials. The designer knew he’d given in and cut corners, and that’s why people think he decided to go down with the ship and literally went into the smoking room and sat down and just waited there as the ship was sinking. Now an experimental craft that was going to see the remnants of a catastrophic tragedy that was the result of the ego and hubris of the men in charge, experienced a catastrophic tragedy that probably would not have happened if it had not been for the ego and hubris of the man in charge, is pretty ironic. Then again, we’ve been given this same lesson since ancient times, and some of us just haven’t understood it yet.

The more I learn about this sub and its construction, the more it sounds like it was definitely a matter of when, not if it was going to catastrophically fail. Physics - 1 S. Rush - 0

@jacobishii6121

11 ай бұрын

It's insane how many experts showed him he was wrong and he kept going.....this was the second hull and was going to degrade so he put microphones in so he can guess when it's broken enough to be unsafe.That was his solution,his construction was just wrong in every way.

@joaopedrosilva116

11 ай бұрын

​@@jacobishii6121a true gambler hah

@donkoh5738

11 ай бұрын

Perhaps one of the more perplexing mechanical engineering questions I would have... is how exactly the deepest ever diving manned submersible reportedly diving > 35,000' the deepest known sea floor was apparently constructed of 'foam' materials?? The Australian designed and built submersible was apparently also put to the test in far shorter time than Titan took to develop and construct ?

@dirremoire

11 ай бұрын

Stockton Rush was clearly on to something, because the fact is the craft made 10 prior successful dives. If Oceangate had had the craft inspected and serviced between dives, it would likely still be operational.

@donkoh5738

11 ай бұрын

@ dirre - curious what was the median / mean avg dive depth of all Titan's total dives combined ? Absolutely, it seems like the Titan design submersible could perhaps just be replaced every 4-5 dives deeper than 1,000m, 2,000m ? Maybe up it to $750k per passenger, per dive ?? I'd personally love to safely dive to 4km depths to view such an historical site.

You are a great communicator. This stuff is extremely technical and you manage to break it down clearly and informatively. Please keep at what you are doing. You have a gift.

@janetbratter1

10 ай бұрын

Good information but the enunciation and excessive clicking as he speaks made it impossible for me to finish watching..maybe because I’m a musician and highly focused on sound and clarity.

You hit the nail on the head. This is the first explanation I have seen of the flaw in using carbon fiber. Great for a spacecraft where the fibers are stretched by internal pressure but no good being compressed by external pressure in deepsea diving.

I'm not an engineer, but I taught soft-skill communication techniques to engineers in many fields for many years. You get an A+ for this vid. 🤗

@michaelchase1911

11 ай бұрын

It shows some inaccuracies however. The outer fuselage was intact, as it would be.

@It-Is-What-It-Is.

11 ай бұрын

@@michaelchase1911 You could be right, that I don't know. I'm only commenting on the presentation and simplified explanation point of view. 😊

@Honjonck

11 ай бұрын

​@michaelchase1911, could you care to explain?

Pro tip: Even if your domain resides outside regulations, it's a good idea to adhere to professional standards, especially for critical life systems. Rush should have determined the Mean Time Before Failure, minimum time to First Failure, and crush depth, on prototypes before the first human stepped on board. Every Oceangate engineer should have their license revoked.

@nutsackmania

11 ай бұрын

very original comment

@jamesfisher4326

11 ай бұрын

I doubt that any of their staff had PE certification.

@michaelhammond7115

11 ай бұрын

He should've hired the most qualified like he said he didn't want to.....50+ year old ex military submariners. But he chose diversity and paid with his life and others

@tbbigrocker149

11 ай бұрын

I doubt he could see past the $ to concern himself with any REAL crush depth testing.

@livetotell100

11 ай бұрын

They were all young Engineers. Fresh out of college. Meaning the oldest was 30. He FIRED all the experienced Engineers. Because they refused to say the "sub" was safe.

The greatest contributing factor to the loss of the Titan was hubris. It's like Rush and OceanGate learned nothing from the sunken ship they were so keen to view. Excellent video my friend, very well explained 👍Thank you.

@Mark-wo9yt

11 ай бұрын

Rush has multiple interviews where he made comments that have not aged well. He bragged repeatedly about bending the rules, ignoring safety precautions, etc. he gambled with the lives of 4 people who trusted him - and they lost.

@QueekHeadtaker

11 ай бұрын

The man clearly is a shithead as demonstrated by his emails and video interviews. Big ego with a, "it will never happen to me, because I'm special" attitude. People are drawn to these kinds of people because there confidence makes the more skeptical minded relax a little... until the sub literally implodes and everybody onboard is instantly slaughtered.

A transcript of text messages between the sub and the mothership shows that just prior to the loss all warning indicators were in the red, also the sub had been descending far more rapidly then intended and when noted despite releasing all ballast and the landing frame and using maximum thrust ascent was extremely slow indicating the sub was overweight, most likely due to leaks in the joints between the carbon fibre and end caps. Sadly it appears the occupants were aware for about 20 minutes that they were in dire straits prior to the final implosion.

I subscribed because your explanation was very clear and unpretentious. Additionally I normally find mechanical engineering very tedious and I rarely bother to immerse myself in the subject but you made this explanation very interesting. I am going to look at your other videos now. Have a great day and thanks for the upload and the work you did producing it.

@Honjonck

11 ай бұрын

Me too 👌🙌

@lynneaiken1647

11 ай бұрын

Yes, he did a great job of explaining this... It's sad that they didn't spend more time on the safely issues of a project this dangerous .. ego got in the way possibly.. you couldn't get me to go that far down in the ocean in a small tin can!! Or any other submersible!! I'm good on land ..

@christytucker6483

11 ай бұрын

Agreed!

@Dog_gone_it

11 ай бұрын

I like your comment 😊

@candacebatty

11 ай бұрын

Same !!!! I like the way he explains it

You explained this better than anyone I have seen so far and I have been watching hours of coverage. A+

@howardsimpson489

11 ай бұрын

A combination of several really good engineer YT videos gives a fair interpretation of history/failure. This vid has some shots of external components. I wonder if the game controller was intended to communicate thru the carbon fiber with a receiver at ocean pressure without hull penetrations. Having seen fiber glass boat hull delamination, if high pressure water was able to penetrate partway thru the hull, progressive failure was inevitable.

Good explanation of why carbon fiber is a poor choice for a submersible. Another issue was the difference in compressibility between the titanium end cap and carbon cylinder, creating high shear force on the glued connection. This in turn can cause small cracks in the glued seam allowing hi pressure water to enter and quickly propagate any potential void space at the edge of the carbon shell itself, thus causing rapid delamination. - Kinda like a jet sprayer hitting the side of plywood where water can work it's way in-between the laminated layers. This could also explain why they had several successful dives before it imploded.

Thanks for a very informative video about this incident. One thing I've not seen mentioned either here or elsewhere is the standard engineering proof for a vessel like this which is to build a second vessel and take it right through the planned loading duty cycle - say 200 cycles to depth if the planned structural life is 100 missions (inside a pressure rig or, cheap option but still effective, by winching the thing down and up in the actual ocean.) Followed, if the vessel hasn't failed by then, by a test to destruction, looking for (aerospace background here) a pressure loading of 150% of the planned 12000 ft. The NDT would be carried out continuously during that development testing and MIGHT give options for design revision if problems were found. Use of more rigorous NDT during operation, whilst it might have saved lives, wouldn't save the programme if the vessel had to be scrapped after the 10th or 20th mission. Real-time NDT, for a failure mode that would be expected propogate instantaneously, doesn't really seem to help. And the bravado in showing how "engineering" can be much faster and cheaper than the experts think, as exemplified by the game controller, shows just how ill-conceived this venture was. Sure, all these corner cuttings do indeed get you there a lot faster and a lot cheaper that those stuffy old professional engineers would allow but you might not want to be there when the shortfalls of the methodology become clear...

@tsunamis82

10 ай бұрын

Would a mother ship be able to handle the weight of the winching rope and winch drum for that length?

@mdruk2003

10 ай бұрын

@@tsunamis82 ...not forgetting the additional ballast to assist the swiftest possible descent & speed up testing, but yes, I guess the cable would only add a tonne or so (subtracting buoyancy), small beer in oceanic operation terms. But if you don't budget for the test article then considerations like this don't arise...

@jpdemer5

10 ай бұрын

@@tsunamis82 The submersible, when in the water, can have very little weight, so there's no need for heavy cables. A sea voyage and a long series of deep-sea tests is hardly cheap, but it would be the only option. I don't believe there are any hyperbaric pressure test facilities with a vessel large enough to hold the Titan and capable of the required 6,000+ psi test pressures.

The normal descent rate on past dives was about 25 metres per minute (m/min). From the times and depths in the text messages, during this dive; right from the start the sub was descending at about 38 to 39 m/min, and the last part from 2960 m depth to 3433 m depth at 44 m/min, almost twice the optimum rate. On the way to 3433 m depth the structure alarms started going off. This suggests two possibilities to me, of which either or both may have contributed to the loss. Firstly, the sub may have been fitted with more ballast than it should have been. This would explain a higher than nominal descent rate, but not the increase in descent rate as the depth increased. The second factor may have been reduced buoyancy due to pre-existing and then progressive damage to the carbon fiber pressure hull. This second factor is more consistent with an increase in descent rate than the 'too much ballast' scenario, because as depth increased then the progressively crushing hull would have a similarly progressive decrease in buoyancy and hence give a progressively increased rate of descent. Near the end, at 09:35 (3500 m) the crew advised that they had jettisoned the frame after multiple attempts. This difficulty could have arisen due to the hull warping or even contracting as the carbon fiber cylinder 'necked' under the pressure, partially jamming the frame in the sleeves. Was the frame the only thing that was holding the ends apart in the final stages as the cylinder sagged and moved in?? It is important to note that the high descent rate was evident from the start of the dive, thus what ever condition was causing this was present from the surface down. A hybrid possibility is that there was too much ballast, and the increased descent rate was too much for the hull, and after 2960 m the hull started to fail progressively to eventually collapse entirely. Given the steady descent rate down to 2960 m followed by the accelerating rate after, this hybrid would seem to be a best fit to the data. If the initial loss of buoyancy was due to pre-existing hull deformation then it would be useful to check the dive logs of the previous dive to see if there is any evidence there of higher descent or slower ascent rates. A passenger on that previous dive noted a lot of sounds from the hull, which could be indicative of initial failures. I note that the carbon fiber cylinder had an inner liner to which equipment like screens and lights were attached, and an outer sleeve covering the supports for the thrusters etc. So inspection of the pressure hull itself would require removal of these liners and sleeves. Was this direct physical inspection of the cylinder done between dives? However, the hybrid scenario of excess-ballast leading into to hull collapse at depth seems most likely, IMHO.

Another detail that most folks are ignoring is the cylinder was subject to tremendous axial loads. While those titanium end caps were strong enough to withstand the pressures, they also have to be 'kept separated' by the cylinder. That's over 58 MN (13 million lbf) applied 'across the fiber'. A narrow walled cylinder subjected to much axial load could suddenly buckle, especially if the cylinder deformed even a little bit from some growing defect.

@La_Ron

11 ай бұрын

Correct. Therefore, I think that the implosion occurred in the axial direction, where all the compressive force was carried by the epoxy and the thin tube of metal on which the epoxy was wound.

@gustavedelior3683

11 ай бұрын

This is what happens when you skim your research before building a sub, a cylinder is great at holding up vertical loads, not great as a pressurized vessel due to load being all encompassing. The Titan would have been best used to view shallow areas for extended times but I wouldn't go past 300 meters in that thing.

@DJJahT

11 ай бұрын

Like when you can stand on an empty soda can if you can slowly balance on it, but if someone touches the cylinder wall with smallest pressure it collapses.

@mikefochtman7164

11 ай бұрын

@@DJJahT Quite right. Now in a soda or other beverage can, they deliberately pressurize the can and that helps the cylinder maintain rigidity. A full unopened can is actually quite strong. But relieve that internal pressure and as you say, the smallest defect/ dimple and it crushes immediately.

@timothygeiger8271

11 ай бұрын

@@DJJahT except titanium & carbon fiber are stronger than aluminum.

In the unconfirmed Transcript from the submersible, they mention a crackling sound coming from the AFT part of the hull. That being said I think it was the connection between the titanium and carbon fiber that ultimately did it in as that is the literal point of most stress and variation (squeezing in the middle and rigid titanium on the size, thus max movement and pull on the edges). I actually think the acoustic sensors did their job long in time, but the the water "started splitting" the ring area and lamination a good 15 minutes before it went pop.

Very nice job explaining this in laymen terms. Also, I'm American, and appreciate the subtitles but I understood you completely without them. Namaste my friend. I wish Rush had you on his team. He still probably wouldn't have listened to you as he did with others on his team. He had a God complex.

@janethelm-realtor119

9 ай бұрын

Had

When Carbon fiber is laid up without a vacuum, microscopic bubbles form against each fiber. When the pressure increased the bubbles got smaller and smaller and when the pressure decreased the bubbles got larger. Each cycle tore at the fibers weakening the entire 5 inches. enough cycles and the entire hull failed and the sub imploded. Rush did not spend the extra money to gas out the epoxy resin in a vacuum chamber and this is the major reason it failed.

@eboyce24

11 ай бұрын

Interesting

@tornagawn

11 ай бұрын

Reckon so. Spiral wound and not vacuum formed……disaster. 4:57

There was too many red flags to ever allow this submersible to dive with passengers. They really talked it up how good it was. The whistle blowers were scared of going public against a rich and powerfull CEO that could ruin them. The submersible community should have leaked info to the media about the submersibles being lemons. It would have saved lives.

@spvillano

11 ай бұрын

Not scared to go public against a rich and powerful CEO, but scared to go public due to their NDA, which would penalize them if they did. As one learned the hard way after he did go public and got sued by oceangate.

@roscoeennis4230

11 ай бұрын

@@spvillano It's funny how women were allowed to testify against Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein ( who I think was guilty ) and put them in prison even though they both had an NDAs and settled out of court but they but won't let people testify about a dangerous unproven submersible that gets people killed. I'm not lawyer so it confuses me.

Excellent explanation, thank you. I work as a Test Inspector for a company that manufactures gas compression equipment dealing with pressure vessels of many different materials. Carbon fiber is an excellent material, but as you described the act of compression and decompression over a period of time can create stress fractures, and this along with extended periods of exposure to pressure perpendicular to the fiber strands was an invitation for catastrophic failure. Great job at making this understandable for everyone.

I'm not an engineering student, but your explanation and visuals kept me so interested in the video! Really loved it!

What an excellent video!! I remember when carbon fiber was first used on mountain bikes. It was used in frames, suspension struts, handlebars and seat posts. The stuff FAILED ALL THE TIME. Usually the failure was sudden!! Using carbon fiber without proper stress testing and without proper re examination after every dive made the Oceangate a DEATH TRAP!!

My two cents. Based on current available information, I would say CF hulls for deep sea exploration is a no-go.

@phillyphakename1255

11 ай бұрын

I think the carbon fiber isn't the primary failure here, rather it is the safety culture at the company. From the purchase of surplus expired epoxy to the underrated glass to the video game controller to the ever faulty comms, this isn't a fail where everything had to go wrong in order to get catastrophe, this was everything had to go right to avoid catastrophe. That isn't just a bad safety culture like you had with the Space Shuttle or any of the other fails you learn about in engineering ethics class, that is a company that was certain to cause loss of life and pretty damn soon, too. If you take the time to really understand the carbon fiber, to non destructive test it, to do unmanned testing of the pressure cycles, etc, if you overbuild it with a big enough safety margin, I can see it being okay. But that takes safety being the goal from day 1 of your company, not "innovation" and ego for the founder.

@phillyphakename1255

11 ай бұрын

My first thought when I saw CF was to look it up on Google if CF was any good in compression. My initial thoughts were no, and google agreed, but I am always open to be proven wrong with sufficient data, science, and engineering. OceanGate didn't do that...

@Khans0120

11 ай бұрын

​@@phillyphakename1255I saw a video of a carbon fiber rod in a hydraulic press....and it didn't do well at all

@eisbeinGermany

11 ай бұрын

its only good enough to use for cars,and then even it has its limits

@JoeLinux2000

11 ай бұрын

That's my conclusion. The compressive forces are too great. Another factor is how important is it for a human to explore the wreck? Cameras are good enough.

Thank you for this video. As other people have said, I'm not an engineer either, but you explained this clearly and concisely! You did a wonderful job explaining terminology and concepts. You answered ask the questions I've had in a way that was easy to understand and follow. The video felt much shorter - like only a couple minutes rather than the almost 10 that actually is! Well done!

@Kingofrestrrooms666

10 ай бұрын

so are they saying that a giant wale swallowed out the sub? It can happen ! but how likely is the chance of being in a sub 4km under the water and being swallowed bt a whale ? Rare chance yes, but it did happen apparently from the latest news

@Kingofrestrrooms666

10 ай бұрын

LORD CHEESES Hey everyone, I like to kneel in the dairy department everyone in front of the cheese section everyone in Cosco and pray to 'Lord Cheeses'. 🧀✝🧀 It's as simple as that everyone. Peeps gotta understand dat there is no expectation of pregnancy in pubic Everyone when pubic photography is concerned. everyone. The 1 stamendment gives me the right to gathering video continents in in pubic everyone! Hell yeah! pubic continent everyone, Praise da Lords Cheeses, 🧀🧀

Glad to see a small KZreadr get these kinda numbers

One of the best engineering reviews of the Titan I’ve heard. I wonder if Ocean Gate had the benefit of this information? I expect the information was available and not acting on it makes Rush a fool. That Rush took others with him is troubling.

@dkjens0705

11 ай бұрын

The more we learn about Rush Stockton the more he comes off as an incredibly irresponsible dreamer. From him getting a break on and building the vessel out of "past best use date" carbon fiber, building the hull 5" thick when Boeing said it should be 7" thick, using a dome port certified to 1,300 meters because not willing to spend the money on a dome port certified to be strong enough, paying young intern engineers minimum wage to work for him, taking outside critisism as insults and the list goes on. He took full advantage of getting around all laws by operating in international waters but was happy to sue anybody who disaggreed with him and his decissions.

@nineteenfortyeight6762

11 ай бұрын

Rush put in writing that he's tired of everyone shouting at him that he's going to kill someone.

@tamara6212

11 ай бұрын

​​@nineteenfortyeight6762E xactly! He even sued anyonewho disagreed with him ! He was dangerous and ridiculous.

@VonJay

11 ай бұрын

Yet he got a lot of things wrong. At 2:15 he showed a picture of a submarine while calling it a deep sea submersible, when they’re two separate things and while submarines cannot go to where DSVs go, while also saying that cylindrical shapes can travel that far down in the ocean. His entire premise was wrong because it wouldn’t matter if the vehicle had carbon fiber or not if the shape of the vehicle at that depth was a cylinder. If the shape of the pressure vessel was a sphere he wouldn’t need carbon fiber. But at the same time he without have been able to carry more than two people.

Successful deep sea subs are very different in two respects - the material used (titanium or surface treated aluminum) has a hardness rating that is about 6 times that of epoxy - the outer layer and glue that binds together carbon fibers in a composite hull. The second key point of weakness is what you alluded to - non uniform resistance to outside stresses due to the directional nature of the carbon fibers themselves. The titanium and aluminum hull submersibles have no such vulnerability. In addition to being a lot harder than epoxy and better resisting material displacement under high unevenly supported loads, their material structure is much more uniform and therefore the resistance to outside stresses is more uniform and predictable. It's really not that complicated and you would have to be a complete idiot to ignore these colossal drawbacks to the use of composites in high pressure environments. It's pretty clear that spending a good deal of money to build a bad design doesn't confer extra levels of intelligence or brilliance on the part of the spender. The Darwin Rule really doesn't care how big your wallet is. Arrogance and stupidity are still a deadly combination.

@dr-ng8te

11 ай бұрын

Well said!

@janethelm-realtor119

9 ай бұрын

Darwin=1 Rush=0 😅

Thank you for being the first mechanical engineer on KZread to outline the application of FRP construction and its difficulties (in this case dangers).

You are the first, I have heard, to address the actual issue that brought Titan to its tragic end. Narcissistic Arrogance and the inability to admit there may be critical design risk that dictate rigorous testing after every dive or reported anomaly. Thank you

According to leaked transcripts, looks the rate of descent was too fast: they were 1h earlier than scheduled at 3700m depth, and being lighthearted about it. For a sub, a faster rate of descent means buoyancy is off. Indeed smth was off because when they tried to ascend after alerts, they were slow (6m per min). Had procedures been taken seriously, the ship would have asked the sub to slow their descent, they would not have been able to comply easily, which would have triggered an abort when it was still in a safe zone. The company did not toy with one boundary, but all at once. They did not learn or even tried to learn anything from previous mishaps. Brashness and overconfidence killed ppl.

@Bignuke87

11 ай бұрын

At that rate it would've taken them approximately 9.4 hours to re surface from 3400 depth...you're right. It's crazy that no one picked up on this.

@Mark-wo9yt

11 ай бұрын

At the FIRST depth check-in, alarm bells should have been going off. You see the same thing with air plane pilots occasionally - rather than immediately abort at the first sign of trouble, the ego takes over and they continue on believing they're smart enough to resolve the problem on the fly. What they AREN'T considering is the lives of others who are trusting them to NOT do that

@MicovskiMC

11 ай бұрын

Have those leaked transcripts been confirmed as real? I heard they were fake.

There are lots of posts on this subject of various quality- this is the best one out there. Well done. I have been working with composites for 40 years and agree with 98% of the content . My only comment is that it is best to view the loading case as a flexural bending situation. This gives tension on the inside of the tube, compression on the outside, and shear on the centre section of the laminate. The compression and shear performance is very sensitive to defects. Great video 😊

You have made the best factual review on this than anyone on the internet. Well done sir, very well done!

Excellent analysis, thank you. Since the submersible was to carry people, I believe tit should have been tested repeatedly at depth until destruction so the limits of the sub would be known and better studied.

@peteroreilly8060

11 ай бұрын

On several models built, because no 2 are truly identical in manufacturing the multiplicity of component parts and structural joints.

@doktormcnasty

11 ай бұрын

Oh yeah and who's going to pay for that? Hah?!???

@spmn3170

11 ай бұрын

​@@doktormcnastyhow about the company trying to sell those rides duh...they would have just added that cost to the ticket price anyways like that would have made it too expensive for those passengers anyways.

@mahlonrhoades4509

11 ай бұрын

It was. Unfortunately, it was also carrying customers.

@klo4413

11 ай бұрын

​

One of the others noted that the window was missing. He was indicating that he thought the window failed. This is unlikely because the ring that hold the window in was also gone. This would indicate that the window was blown out from the inside. Think of water moving at 1K mph from the inside of the window. I do agree that the tube failed first, Likely at the junction of the fiber and the rings at the ends.

@Trikipum

11 ай бұрын

nah.. dude.. do you realize the magnitude of the explosion that happens after the implosion?. It is a huge shockwave... Imagine...All that air compresses in a milisecond, gets so hot it burns, pressure has no easy way since it is sourrounded by water.. BOOOM.. do you expect a cheap ass acrylic window to stay in place?. Take in account the thing is designed so the pressure itself pushes it against the sub, it is what keeps it in place and what makes it totally waterproof.. that thing went the other way, which means massive forces pushed it from inside out....

@carpe_poon5761

11 ай бұрын

He wasn’t sure if that happened or if they broke it to tie the strap to it to lift it

@lessharratt8719

11 ай бұрын

@@Trikipum isn't that what he just said??

@AvonleaMontague

11 ай бұрын

It's possible the window was removed so that part of the submersible could be lifted with that red rope.

@twoheadedtasmanian1481

11 ай бұрын

@@AvonleaMontague na they wouldn’t damage evidence that way. Also doing any work at that depth would be very difficult, yes they can pick things up but breaking stuff with the equipment is not one of them.

Excellent video. Your explanation of composite engineering and failure was very concise.

It's strange how the vessel is built to withstand such pressures and yet fish and other soft skin creatures dewl in such conditions. Fascinating mother nature.

Carbon fiber is not an ideal choice for a cylinder being used to resist compressive forces across the center of the fiber, but Titan suffered from a second major weak spot; the transition from the CF hull tube to the titanium end hemispheres. As the different materials would tend to compress unequally under the same outside pressure, repeated cycling would tend to create and enlarge defects at the material transition, which is made more sensitive by the use of unreinforced epoxy to secure that joint.

Something that almost everyone has missed is the bending moments applied to the carbon tube along its length since its ends were more or less constricted and the central portion only had 1 bar atmospheric pressure supporting it.

@robertrobert3693

11 ай бұрын

I agree, and also the ends of the tube were titanium, that were essentially glued on. With the carbon tube part having some flex with pressures, that would really put stresses on the static joints at both ends of the unit.

@DJJahT

11 ай бұрын

Like when you can stand on a soda can if you can slowly balance on it, but if someone touches the cylinder wall with smallest pressure it collapses.

@gramparob

11 ай бұрын

I like how you highlighted the axial stresses. Under load, the whole thing appears to be in compression. Any deformation could result in a lot of shear stresses where all you have is glue in one dimension. Sounds incredibly risky. I’m no composite expert, but these guys win first prize in the Darwin Award.

@earl6969

11 ай бұрын

It seems to have had an incident as it jettisoned the cage portion in an emergency accent attempt. Thing should have never left the drawing board.

@joergquasnowitz3495

11 ай бұрын

having designed fiber structures in the past, it was shocking to see this video. If indeed, the carbon was only wrapped around the tube unidirectional, this whole design is missing the point. Yes, a crosscut of one fiber width would show that it can deal with the radial pressure. But this is a tube after all, and if indeed no fiber seems to have been in place to take the longitudinal load along the tube the design is a complete nut-job. No wonder, the company never tried to get a certification. This was certain to be declined even from a look at the design - long before any testing. And I do agree with some of the comments here, this is not even looking into the force distribution of the titanium-to-composite interface where a design, that seals tighter under pressure would have been the way to go and definitely not just applying some glue. If this video represents the full design of the vessel in all it's details, I am shocked on so many levels. How can someone pay that amount of money as a passenger without taking a look at the risks. Strong contenders for the Darwin-Awards all of them.

Fascinating video exploring the different loading properties of carbon fiber composite materials. Very well done! Thanks for this!

Seriously man, Thank you for doing this. I actually understood what you were showing. Thank you

That was an excellent explanation, better than any others I've come across since this event. Thank you.....and I've subscribed as I hope many more will.

You have explained the technicals so very well.. Not even those American channels have understood these basics while sending that plastic can so deep. Or probably they were just stupendous in this act.

I'm no super expert, but the minute they described a pressured vessel with carbon fiber, exactly what you describe here came to mind. I've dealt with some carbon fiber in bicycle construction and realize it's great in tension, but not nearly as good in pressure. Secondly, the transition from the titanium to fiber boundary would leave me to question, along with the temperature variations. Sounds to me like a case of someone with money and vision, but not so much real world experience.

@lenturtle7954

11 ай бұрын

WHAT HE SAID GOOD FOR TENSILE STRENTH NOT COMPRESSIVE

@mollybolton8425

14 күн бұрын

So just make the hull concave, now compression becomes tension

Of all the voices on here since the demise of titan I feel yours is the best as it's backed with facts.

Very good. Probably the best of the current crop of Titan videos, as it gives a much more comprehensive and knowledgable view of the sub's weak points and what probably happened. Combine this with one of the videos about the leaked text message transcript (assuming it's real) and you've probably got about the best understanding of this tragedy you're going to get for now. Thank you.

My understanding is that carbon fiber composites may crack abruptly when twisted. This might be due to the matrix or glue cracking. So, the carbon fiber body may have distorted under load, leading to cracking, and the glue holding the ends together may have cracked under the combination of cold, wet environment and twisting load. I heard an alleged transcript of the conversations between the submersible and host vessel, which indicated the "Titan" was descending considerably faster than expected, and then had difficulty ascending. Might it be possible that the "Titan" was becoming waterlogged, perhaps even flooding in some areas, almost as soon as it submerged? Perhaps the weight of this extra water would have stressed the frame, especially during its struggle to ascend.

@nicklockard

11 ай бұрын

I would also like to know if it was overweight with too many passengers and stuff with insufficient reserve buoyancy for surfacing. Given Mr. Rush's cavalier attitude towards proper engineering and safety, it would not surprise me if he took on too much load.

@joanbaczek2575

11 ай бұрын

Or one of the motors that helped with ascending failed

@ticenits1926

11 ай бұрын

@@joanbaczek2575 it didn’t use motors to ascend, the motors were for just basic maneuvers.

Thank you, I think you were great at explaining how carbon fiber works and withstand pressure. What do you think about the edges? Where the carbon fiber attached to the titanium rings. There, wouldn't both materials move in different ways when subject to pressure, leading to a potential rupture point?

@Ezekiel903

11 ай бұрын

it was glued together, but they did it by hand, it is impossible to control the thickness of the Epoxidharz, but beside that, composite materials or carbonfibre is good when the pressure comes from the inside, they are very hard to stretch, but when the pressure comes from the outside its a complete different story! carbon fibre brings great result in stretch tests, but under compression they collapse very fast! and unlike steel and titanium we have still to less data available to make accurate simulations! there is also the different coefficient at temperatures compared to titanium or steel, which have a similar value

@maryalove5534

11 ай бұрын

@@Ezekiel903 As an engineer, the CEO should have known that, but he decided to take a chance!!!!! ... 😢 It's tragically sad!!!!! ... 😢

@johnnylogan5927

11 ай бұрын

Hopefully they had life jackets.

@brendalohrke2402

11 ай бұрын

Rush used peanut butter around the frayed edges.

@LWRC

11 ай бұрын

It doesn't matter if the two surfaces move in opposite directions - the adhesive glue has already failed!!!

Maybe they should have used a weaving pattern in constructing the hull versus a unidirectional wrap. This would have made the strength multidirectional. With all of the wrap going in one direction, the weakness you pointed out was inherent in the design.

@cheaphomemademoives

11 ай бұрын

carbon is a weak material from the start, using carbon is like building your house from burn wood! no matter how you build it, its already weak, I work in heatreating carbonize the steel and iron, it will harden the material but the fall point in carbon is it won't bend to much, it will shatter like glass weaving it won't make a bit of difference it can not take the pressure it won't bend, that is the problem!!! it was going to happen! he would have to redo each sub after a single crack was notice! he should have just listen!

@Me-wk7dz

11 ай бұрын

@@raresnuiter Carbon fiber can not tolerate many compression cycles, it's just not a good idea to use.

@Me-wk7dz

11 ай бұрын

@@raresnuiter If you did say that then youtube isn't displaying your comment because the only post of yours it is displaying is your irrational reply to cheap.

@petergiourelas3753

11 ай бұрын

Go woke and drown

@jonasjensen9305

11 ай бұрын

@@raresnuiter Other people can't see the comment. It doesn't show when you press “View replies”.

Subscribed. Love the video! You’re very well spoken and speak very intelligently and eloquently.

Thank you for producing one of the more intelligently produced, informative, and well narrated videos regarding this tragic topic.

Excellent video. Hope that this gets lots of views in the US where public education is imploding faster than the Titan. Thank you for an excellent analysis.

@chewbaccassecretlovechild2607

11 ай бұрын

I remember a sick sick twisted underground techy set on the radio. The tunes stop .., the Dj then drops a really sick track. He says, yeah , like l say , Dat pressure! Yep , it was a dat tape . Genius

@kahlesjf

11 ай бұрын

And why is that happening?

@chewbaccassecretlovechild2607

11 ай бұрын

@@kahlesjf Do you listen to Fugs , on the drugz.......F M Fugs goes .. Fugs , on Drugs , he waits 10 seconds and says...F M 🤣 . A granny would think Fugs is really on drugs 😅🤣. Fugs really knows how to play with their minds, oh , and he plays sick underground Acid and Tech

@r.williamcomm7693

11 ай бұрын

@@chewbaccassecretlovechild2607 love your screen name!

@chewbaccassecretlovechild2607

11 ай бұрын

@@r.williamcomm7693 l was joking about the fugs and drugs f m 🤣. I bet you thought, what an idiot 🙄 🤣 🤦. Yeah , it's a cool name buddy

Great explanation! Nothing like an engineer who starts to build from the basics!

OceanGate should definitely make a $1,250,000 donation to the Titanic Historical Society!

If anyone ever asks me if I want to go see the Titanic in a submarine, I'm gonna say, "No thanks!"

@angieb3875

11 ай бұрын

' NOT NO but HECK NO ! '

@poppedweasel

11 ай бұрын

@@angieb3875 polite people can still say thanks.

@lauriehominick9987

11 ай бұрын

I'll watch the movie

My first thought about the failure, was the bonding between the titanium ring and the carbon fibre ends. I still feel, that was the point of failure. The excellent graphics shows the tube deforming lengthwise, narrowing in the middle. That is surely going to stress the bond with the rings, as the outer layers will pull against the bonding in the ring.

Revolutionary Engineering, a channel of might, A source of knowledge, a guiding insight. With gratitude, I watch and learn, So much to gain, so much to earn. Mechanical stress, pressure, tension, Tensile strength, a world of invention. In Revolutionary Engineering’s videos I see, A world of wonder, a world of glee. I love engineering, it’s plain to see, The power of creation, the power to be. Thank you Revolutionary Engineering, for all you do, For sharing your knowledge and helping us through. Your videos are valuable, a treasure to clutch, A source of learning, they mean so much.

I'd never seen your channel and was expecting a lot of gibberish, but this is the most informative video I've seen on this subject by a long long margin. Congrats!

Great job and thank you for hard work. I'm sure you'll have 200,000 subscribers soon and keep up the great work. I'm sure you worked many hours on this and it is excellent. Thank you.

They said flat out it has been making cracking noises on prior trips and this was the second hull,acoustic sensors were a bad idea but it's moot since he didn't listen to them and stop diving

This has been a thoroughly informative and fascinating video. I actually came away with a greater understanding of the tragic-but IMO inescapable outcome of carelessness toward diagnostic testing.

That was very informative. Thank you. You seem like a very kind man. I will send this video to my people.

Finally, someone talking about the tension vs compression stresses in an element particularly where the fibers can't significanlty resist the compression stresses on a cyclic basis over time. Someone needs to go to jail for this, experimental or not! Very good video. Well done!

@ericool007

11 ай бұрын

I'm pretty sure the person who needed jailed is dead. I'm sure the company will end up extinct soon

@dr-ng8te

11 ай бұрын

I Agree,

Would be really interesting to see a model that includes the locations of all penetrations and mounting points on the hull. Penetrations and mounting holes (or regions that are stiffer if external mounts are attached with welding (or glue) can change the symmetry of deformation under load and cause stress concentrations. Even how the lifting points are designed and distributed can have an affect on it's integrity (it is over 10 tons in weight after-all... ) Do you have access to any engineering documents / drawings that include that info. A model including that would be awesome to see!

@pugsymalone6539

11 ай бұрын

I believe your observation is spot on. The dissimilar materials and poor selection of points of attachment guaranteed catastrophic failure, in my opinion. The choice of carbon fiber is a stand-alone guarantee of failure.

@user-oe1mb9hu9i

11 ай бұрын

@@pugsymalone6539 Without specific plans of the submersible anybody, literally ANYBODY, can go on and on making videos of what happened and how it happened. There were a team of engineers working here. Agreed; they were not deep sea specialists but however; ANY mounting point or hole INTO the inner tube of the submersible would NOT have been made through the Carbon Fibre, IF Needed, through the titanium ends. ANY mounting points would have been exterior to the pressure capsule.

@flapjack413

11 ай бұрын

Rush himself stated that the carbon fiber could not be drilled. Knowing that, I would have to assume anything that was mounted within anchored to the titanium rings, or was held in place with an adhesive.

@pugsymalone6539

11 ай бұрын

@@user-oe1mb9hu9i I'm not saying that they drilled into the carbon fiber. I'm looking hard at the reduced diameter of the CF that created the lip onto which the titanium rings were glued. That's a stress point, exacerbated by the dissimilar materials expanding and compressing at different rates, causing the seal to fatigue, possibly the lip itself. Next is the proximity of the landing skid band to the reduced diameter CF/titanium rings. More stress in the same area. Getting the vessel in and out of the water looks like a bumpy ride; did the CF incur regular abuse from the landing skid torque as everything was bouncing and banging? Accessibility to the batteries, etc inside the vessel appeared to be limited or nil. All around, a textbook method of doing it wrong. The screws visible inside the vessel are attached to an inner metal tube. Preventing visual inspection of the interior of the pressure hull. Ugh.

@joefish6091

11 ай бұрын

I believe they used bluetooth for all communications between the inside to the outside, no physical connections whatsover. An internal life support system plus control unit, the external systems were propulsion and lights + cameras. and ballast control. One of the early missions the BT comms failed and they had to sit it out until the ballast ties melted from the seawater 10 hours later. and up they popped.

Very well explained and thorough, I'm impressed. Reaching a higher bar than the majority of KZread channels

VERY informative video that helps non-engineers such as myself understand the physics of repeated stress and tension on carbon fiber. Thank you! New sub from Toronto, Canada :)

How would the cold temperatures at the depth of the Titanic affect carbon fiber. I know it can stand a lot of heat but, from what I've read, it looks like it isn't so good when it gets very cold.

@eisbeinGermany

11 ай бұрын

very good question, of which no one has raised

@bensemusx

11 ай бұрын

Very cold is usually cryogenic temps. Carbon fibre also isn’t great with heat either. SpaceX moved from carbon fibre to stainless steel in part due to needing a much lighter heat shield. The steel could handle much higher temperatures while remaining structurally sound.

Supposedly the carbon fiber had sat on the shelf for a year at Boeing - they rate the material for 1 year of shelf life and were discarding it - in some way got rid of it - Oceangate probably got a huge discount on it. Your models probably don’t account for expired carbon fibers.

@zeke2566

11 ай бұрын

S. Rush also got a discount funeral and sea burial.......

@johnglover4453

11 ай бұрын

Dark, but true, alas...

@musasetiabudi3134

11 ай бұрын

Imagine Boeing discarded it, although the air pressure at high altitude is lower than on the ground, and yet ocean gate use the carbon fibre to go down the sea with 380 times higher pressure than on the ground.

@JoeLinux2000

11 ай бұрын

I think it's the epoxy that goes bad, not the carbon fibers.

@EmmanuelAyegba

11 ай бұрын

@@JoeLinux2000 That makes it even worse under those conditions

Agreed. I don't think anyone really understands the failure mode of this structure. We can say for sure that it was associated with fatigue however - it worked previously. Carbon fibre is more vulnerable to fatigue than titanium. The cylindrical shape was not adequately catered for - Radially wound CF. Supported at the ends by titanium. No mid or any internal support. No NDT. Glued end joints. I think that the tin can comparison is valid. The two end caps were waiting to come together and all it took was a slight change in force vectors as the tube buckled due to fatigue failure.

Excellent video. You have cleared some of the questions I had.

Brilliant inspection of the factors . Love your work

What a clear and understandable explanation for someone who focused more on the arts than the sciences in school. Thank you! ❤️

What all these engineers are missing with the technology that was installed to detect a integrity issue within the hull, is that it doesn’t account for the fact at the depths they were operating, even if a crack had started to form, the pressure would have continued regardless if the decent was arrested and they returned to the surface… the change in depth going up, would have increase the failure rate of a formed integrity issue…..so the alarm, would have merely been a reminder, that it was game over. Not to stop a catastrophic failure.

If the leaked transcript is real, it sounded more like the equipment bay sprung a leak. This created additional weight which accelerated the descent. It also seemed to knock out one of the batteries. If water was streaming in at that depth, it was probably like a cutting beam and cut through whatever was in its path.

Stupidity...Laziness...and hiring on the cheap = DEATH

I assume something laminated and subject to huge compression is going to stress the bonded layers. Which will then delaminate.

@tubesockvii2351

Ай бұрын

Which is why carbon fiber is stronger than steel and best option to use for deep exploration.

One of the finest explanations and video of the failure.

Detailed and persuasive analysis, thank you.

You look to be showing the side pressure of the tube part. You didn't mention the end to end pressure of the ends. Any slight difference in deformation of the tube part is amplified by the end to end pressure.

@sammylacks4937

11 ай бұрын

​@@fluffy_kitten Finally someone that knows what da hell is going on. Thank you. I totally agree.

All the carbon fiber vessels for _deep sea_ purposes are generally designed as _1 time use vehicles._ As I understand it Rush took inspiration from 1 (2 time technically, they test then the run) time use vehicles and tried to make something reusable with the same materials, while ignoring why everyone else only used those materials for single use vehicles.

By far the best & most technical video I have seen on this. Thank you!

Now its time for you to become a Engineering professor / teacher! Your explanations were very easy to comprehend, and you kept the conversation interesting! Thank you!

There were no seats and no restraints for the passengers and crew. If it went out of trim, the occupants would be dumped into the end in a pile - good luck keeping control in that situation. The submersible had wires hanging off of it all over the outside - snag and fouling hazard. There was no hatch, and the occupants were bolted in from the outside (giant red flag). There were no redundant systems. The controls were stupid. Carbon fiber is good in tension structures, but not in compression. The glued-on end caps sound like a really bad idea. Acoustic sensors are meaningless when the first sound you're likely to hear is the last thing you'll hear - a loud crunch. Hubris.

I also can't help but notice at 8:01, the computer monitor seems to be bolted directly into the inside wall of the sub.

@zlonewolf

11 ай бұрын

It should be fine. If you notice the inside hull isnt CF. Its just lining. The CF is wrapped onto titanium inner core. Thats what the TV is screwed into.

@Woodman-Spare-that-tree

11 ай бұрын

@@zlonewolf. Someone said the metal core was a mandrel that was removed before the sub went to sea

@ma3xiu1

11 ай бұрын

@@Woodman-Spare-that-tree the metal core was removed, but inside the carbon fibre pressure hull is a translucent fibreglass tube serving as a liner -- this is what the TV is screwed into, not the CF hull.

@ryanfulton8421

11 ай бұрын

@ma3xiu1 but even so, the metal bolts would have shrank and expanded due to temperature variation alone, depth pressure not withstanding. I assume they would've worn through anyway, given enough time? Seems like they should've used an adhesive to mount the monitor since that's apparently what they were betting their lives on anyway.

Thank You for excellent discourse on this subject! My opinion was that there was differential thermal issues with the binding agent holding the carbon fiber and titanium together. That the difference between the three materials created expansion and contraction issues creating micro cracks in the seal especially if it was used repeatedly. I believe that they dove to fast not allowing the temperatures and pressures to occur in controlled manner within tolerances. I believe that this was a fine submersible for working depth of 1,200 meters and a maximum of 1,600 meters. I believe that the porthole window should have been upgraded and been certified. There should have been a sister vessel on standby. They should have had multiple additional rov’s... I believe that carbon fiber is workable material for submersible vehicles but that it’s limitations and weaknesses must be recognized... I would have placed a additional layer of carbon over the titanium and carbon fiber hull creating protection for the edge of the titanium at the joint with carbon fiber. The glue seal should have been completely protected... A second titanium ring should have bolstered the structure from the inside. At that depth in that vessel my protocol would have been to slowly lower the vessel by remote control without any passengers for the maiden voyage... Give it a full pressure test and all systems check... Slowly returning to the surface. Perform all checks and maintenance. Only then proceeding with the maned mission. Then only using the vessel that one time at that depth. I believe that would have kept it within safety parameters. At 1,000 meters that I think that vehicle would have a fine number of service hours and dive numbers. At greater depth there is no cutting corners and saving money for lower cost tickets or increased profits. The narcissistic thinking led to confirmation biases and a lack of appreciation for the physics involved. I am afraid to ask if they even had spare controllers? Don’t place faith in material things. Material things will fail you. I would like to build a sailboat that is submersible... only to 60’ for standard use. In this way the sailboat can seal up and duck underwater in a storm. Then pop back up for good weather. For my purpose carbon fiber would be a good choice... but I don’t know what lottery I would have to win to pay for that much carbon fiber in the thickness required. LOL You can’t cut corners on materials and engineering.

Very good & expert analysis. Glad I subscibed!

Very informative video, thank you. I would hope that the design process and testing will be investigated so that we will be able to judge whether they had answers to the criticisms that have been made. At present I feel that many people are simply saying 'it failed, therefore they did it wrong', and just pick their favourite explanation from those on offer. It is suggested that they detected the impending failure of the hull and tried to ascend, but the craft failed to ascend fast enough. By having the means to detect damage within the hull they acknowledged this failure mode was a likelihood, and seem to believe that when it occurred they would have time to ascend. So whilst there may well be basic flaws in design of the vessel, it might be that the real question to ask is why didn't it ascend sufficiently when the (predicted) hull damage occurred? If it did, they would all be alive to tell the tale.

Excellent video. This is the most depth I've seen anyone go into on potential failure modes of the carbon fibre itself and contained some interesting new ideas.

This is the most detailed information I have seen on the performance and issues with carbon fiber. I'm not an engineer, but it would stand to reason that exhaustive, unmanned, testing should be done on any unit, especially one that was not manufactured to the existing standards, before putting lives at risk. People think that because it is used for plans it is ok for submersibles. Plane cabins are pressured from the inside, whereas the pressure on anything going to the bottom of the ocean is from the outside. The affect is not the same. Planes undergo structural testing all the time due to the stress on the fuselage. They do not undergo testing while the plane is in mid take off, in flight or landing. So the theory that if we hear cracking we can just abort and return to the surfaces is codswallap. I saw on another post that the material they used was rejected for planes so they were able to buy it at a lower cost. Going "on the cheap" to the bottom of the ocean, yeah that's a hard no!

This is the best video i have seen about Titan, and i have watched wayyy too many at this point. thank you. so so good.

This was a very informative video. Thanks for making it in a way that even a non-engineer can understand. So it sounds a lot like OceanGate was extremely negligent, essentially.

@joefish6091

11 ай бұрын

Its all going to fall onto the shoulders of Tony Nissen, Oceangate's chief of engineering. SR is gone, he cannot be touched now.

I have no engineering background. Have heard it said that carbon fiber is best wrapped in overlapped diagonal layers. Video of Titan hull being wrapped it all goes in one direction like a spool of thread. Would this have made a difference?

@luvit579

11 ай бұрын

here's a video where the guy goes in depth about the manufacturing process kzread.info/dash/bejne/p5qmmZqfoZXWc7A.html

Yr explanation is so simple n easy to understand for pple like me who are not frm an engineering background...I'm shocked that a mere video game controller was used!!

It's not just the carbon fibre issues, but the use of titanium and carbon fibre together that caused this disaster. The cumulative fatigue between the two, caused by having different pressure coefficients is the culprit here, resulting in delamination of the carbon fibre shell. Imagine the occupants sitting inside that thing for 20 minutes, alarms going off (sonic tests failing), listening to the 'crackling' sounds - it's the stuff of nightmares.