Damn, I didn't realize the Septuagint translations are that different. They even call Nebuchadnezzar's army an army of "many nations" „For thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will bring up against thee, O Sor, Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon from the north: he is a king of kings, with horses, and chariots, and horsemen, and a concourse of very many nations. (Septuagint, Ezekiel 26:7)” Awesome channel, just subscribed.

@HaoJingChangZai

3 жыл бұрын

The reason Babylon could be said to have an army of "many nations" was that it hadnmany vessel nations. This doesn't mean "many nations against Tyer" refers to only the army of "many nations" under the control of Babylon. If verse 13 and later were in a separate paragraph, then what the "switch of the pronoun" really means is not even worth debating. Looking at how the chapter numbers were added to the Bible, I wasn't surprised that somehow the arrangement of words sometimes was less than optimal, but it is within the range of human errors allowed by God, who always shows His children what He means. Well I guess not ALWAYS to ALL His children. He decides whom and when and how and what. But it'll be always enough for those who turn to Him for help to fight their doubt and stay in faith.

@nemdenemam9753

3 жыл бұрын

@@HaoJingChangZai well yeah, that was my first read as well but Im a bit conflicted because in masoretic text (which is generally accepted to be more accurate as far as I understand) consistently use "am"- "people" for Nebbuchadnezzar's army while in 26:3 the "gowyim" - "nations, gentiles" word is used. I think the strongest arguments for a failed prophecy (other than the historical evidence that it was called Ushu for at least a thousand years by that point) are the fact that even for the "he" pronoun parts it says that his army will walk all off Tyre's streets (to counter the argument that its meant for Tyre+Ushu) and that Tyre's strong pillars he will destroy. The pillar word is "matstsebah" which means a religious idol/sacred pillar in almost any context (other than in Abraham's case). The Tyre main temple had the temple of Melqart which had to pillars as its main attraction and that wasnt destroyed by even Alexander. So as far as Im concerned, its failed even if only the "he" parts are about him (which I agree is debatable). However its still an interesting question of why he changed the expressions and pronouns where he did, and quite frankly I just cant find a definitive answer to it.

@nemdenemam9753

3 жыл бұрын

@UCPCoNxcmJ-tK0PFKVHnt2LQ thats a good point, I only assumed that it changes to "they" because in the one other place where the the word "wə·šā·lə·lū" - "they will make a spoil" exists in the same form is in Ezekiel 39:10 where its also translated "they shall plunder" even in the Brenton Septuagint translation. Also at that place its clear that its "they". What does this part mean: "The subjectives in both texts both mean "Power, might, strength, force, duress; ability, capability; miracle, wonder; resources; source of power; armed military force, army"? Im sorry but I lost you there. Im assuming the greek "ἰσχύος" corresponds to the hebrew "uzzek" which is also strength, might (in a lot of context its the might of God). So there is no corresponding word for pillars in the greek text? In hebrew the combination is "ū·maṣ·ṣə·ḇō·wṯ" (pillar) "uz·zêḵ" (strength) which was translated "mighty pillars", "strong pillars", "strong garrison" (no idea where the idea of garrison came from, its translated like that nowhere else). Also is there a good tool to search and translate word by word in the greek septuagint? Im using biblehub's hebrew concordance for the jewish text and something similar would be great for the greek. Blueletterbible seems ok but its a bit cumbersome compared to biblehub (which doesnt have greek septuagint).

@HaoJingChangZai

3 жыл бұрын

@@nemdenemam9753 Figured out there's something wrong with my safari and I posted my response to you using Chrome as a separate comment.

@HaoJingChangZai

3 жыл бұрын

@@nemdenemam9753 Just realized you were responding to my partial post earlier. Hope I made more sense after you finished reading the whole thing. I don't have a word for ward tool for Greek. I did it manually. That's why my eyes hurt now...

The virgin Nebuchadnezzar II: nooo, it is impossible to take the island, it took me 13 years and just got some concessions.... =( The Chad Alexander: I don't have to invade an island if I make it a peninsula >=)

The problem with you comparing the Ezekiel verse to the Jerimiah verse lies within the context of both verses. Sure in the Jerimiah verse the pronoun shifts from he to they but the jerimiah verse never stated "MANY NATIONS" so therefore in THAT scripture the he to they pronoun shift may be used for one man. But Ezekiel literally states "MANY NATIONS" so that he to they shift would be referring to the other nations.

How can you besiege a city for 13 years and not notice that the inhabitants had skedaddled?

@TooEasyParanormal

4 жыл бұрын

Michael Sommers walls.

@michaelsommers2356

3 жыл бұрын

@@TooEasyParanormal Why didn't the Babylonians notice the boats loaded with people going back and forth from the mainland to the island?

@wg4154

2 жыл бұрын

Cause is all made up.

@michaelsommers2356

2 жыл бұрын

@@wg4154 No kidding.

@buelas.9398

Жыл бұрын

😂

Your best video so far, Joshua. I was delighted to see that you've changed your style of presentation. It is more to the point, easier to follow your argument and I love that you include ample direct quotes. I am looking forward to *many* more! Thank you!!!

Keep it up Dr.Josh and future Dr. Megan. You may have found a niche that is desired by not only us ancient history and biblical enthusiasts, but to mainstream religious organizations.

Once someone points out the I/ they construction of verses 3-6 in Ezekiel 26 (which everyone agrees refer to "the nations") are followed by a series of "he" pronouns in verses 7-11 referring to Nebuchadnezzar, it seems obvious that the return to the I/they construction in verses 12 and beyond must refer again to "the nations". To work so hard to prove otherwise doesn't sound like scholarship so much as it sounds like bias.

@DigitalHammurabi

5 жыл бұрын

I really appreciate your comment. Honestly, it would be difficult to make the “many nations” refer to anyone other than the Neo-Babylonian army. But it is definitely seems like it if you only read that passage in English. Thanks for being here!! :-)

Brill Dr Josh. Thank you. Wishing you and Megan a fab Winter solstice!

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

4 жыл бұрын

read Ezekiel 29:18-19 his argument is destroyed and I've confronted him with this and he wont take this video down.

@rc7625

3 жыл бұрын

Benaiah Tyndale Wyatt lol Get a life clown.

Fantastic channel I love it

Excellent video with the exact points I made to someone on this topic before

Excellent presentation, Dr. Josh.

I love your channel

My golly goodness this was Fantastic. Quoting from Assyrian and Babylonian sources Referring to commentaries Clear and logical layout Keep these kind of videos coming!!

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

4 жыл бұрын

read Ezekiel 29:18-19 his argument is destroyed and I've confronted him with this and he wont take this video down.

@ogezpb3927

Жыл бұрын

@@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326 I know this is an old post of yours, but have you come to realize that the verse you cite is the very verse wherein Ezekiel admits that his prophecy in chapter 26 verse 12 failed to come to pass?

@vaeshethblade931

Жыл бұрын

@@ogezpb3927 What are you talking about? I assume you meant Ezekiel 26: 12? Chapter 29 was written before 26. This is what happens when people who don't read the Bible try to join a discussion about it. "Let me tell you about this book I've never read..." Ezekiel, like Daniel, took everything he had written and arranged it in the order he saw fit much later in his life. Chapter 29 is an indictment on Egypt, with one little line about Tyre; he placed it after the judgment on Tyre (26-28) likely because Nebuchadnezzar moved on to Egypt after his siege of Tyre. While he did not conquer the capitol city (also named Tyre), he sacked and plundered all the coastal cities. Most likely 29: 18-19 are intended to be from Nebuchadnezzar's perspective, I'm sure he didn't feel greatly accomplished for mounting a 13-year siege and not capturing the capitol. If a force were to control everything in the United States except for Washington DC, we would say they conquered America. If a force were to move in and take control of Washington DC, we would say they conquered America. Ezekiel 29 predicts Nebuchadnezzar would decimate Tyre, but miss out on the big payoff - He conquered Tyre. Chapter 26 predicts Nebuchadnezzar would plunder all of Tyre, which he did even though he did not take the capitol city - He conquered Tyre.

@ogezpb3927

Жыл бұрын

@@vaeshethblade931 yea, i meant 26 not 29. thanks. hey look, i read the book. Zekiel say Nebby will throw Tyre into the sea and plunder it. It doesn't happen. Alexander the Great does something like that a hundred years later. But not Nebby. In chptr 29 Ezekiel indicates Nebby didn't get the spoils. It wasn't said Nebby would plunder Tyre in Egypt but Tyre by the sea. And forget about D.C. Did you watch the video? It makes a great case. Why am I telling you this. You didn't even watch the video. This is what you get when people who don't watch the video.....

This channel is a gift

Very interesting. You answered some questions for me. Thanks.

And of course, the promised destruction was to be so thorough that the city would be reduced to bare rock and *never rebuilt* (verse 14), drowned beneath the ocean (verse 19), and sought but never again found (verse 21). Current population c200,000.

Excellent presentation. Subbed.

@DigitalHammurabi

5 жыл бұрын

Glad to have you on board!

Thank you both for sharing your knowledge and your drive to make your channel happen.. I like the honest and factual way you convey information.. You make it calm and collected.. easier for me to understand these concepts.. Keep up the good work and... Awesome job! (thanks for not giving any time to "willfully ignorant, belligerent, close minded, and willfully deviant individual") on the Non Sequitur channel

@robertoalanzo4656

5 жыл бұрын

I have trouble understanding, so did Ezikel get it right or not?

@DigitalHammurabi

5 жыл бұрын

His prophecy in Ezekiel 26 predicted the destruction of the island city of Tyre by Nebuchadnezzar, which did not take place. In that respect, the prophecy failed.

@robertoalanzo4656

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much this viedo is 5+/5

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

4 жыл бұрын

read Ezekiel 29:18-19 his argument is destroyed and I've confronted him with this and he wont take this video down.

@Querent2000

4 жыл бұрын

@@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326 Brainlessly repeating the same bullshit she has already repeated eight times.

As a fallen evangelical conservative I have thoroughly enjoyed learning about the “other side” of biblical interpretation; back during my training this was known as the evil liberal view. In this particular vid I appreciated the careful explanation of both sides of the debate and the use of the actual text to support the failed prophecy argument. I would love to see more of these vids discussing problem texts.

@DigitalHammurabi

Жыл бұрын

We have several books out dealing with topics like these. www.amazon.com/Atheist-Handbook-Old-Testament/dp/B0BCL5G59S/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?keywords=joshua+bowen&qid=1664499443&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIzLjE1IiwicXNhIjoiMy4xMiIsInFzcCI6IjMuMDUifQ%3D%3D&sr=8-2

@ashleycofer8844

Жыл бұрын

What do you mean by fallen evangelical conservative ?

@Josiah_Harder

9 ай бұрын

​@@ashleycofer8844he means he's abandoned the faith to pursue his own lusts

@WokeandProud

8 ай бұрын

​@@Josiah_HarderMore like doesn't believe anymore because its all bunk but ya go on acting like atheists are the immoral ones when your kinds actions today and throughout history prove otherwise.

@rsanchez5179

8 ай бұрын

I'm sorry. You are looking reasons to justify the crisis in your faith. Believe and don't be an unbeliever.

t's a shame that people like Josh can't make a living doing what they are are are trained to do and are so enthusiastic about.

@Zeupater

5 жыл бұрын

@Lawrence From what I understand, it’s not for the lack of work to be done. There are literally hundreds of thousands of unread Sumerian, Akkadian, Ugaritic, etc. documents in museums and other research facilities. My working hypothesis is our current de-emphasis on pure research. It’s understandable given the budgets for academic pursuits but, I think, to our civilization's loss.

@nj8542

5 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@Dreamerwild

5 жыл бұрын

If Josh and Megan did a Kickstarter for translating a certain text, I would contribute. I would also send me receipt and a letter to my Senator insisting on more money for research.

One of my favorite episodes

This channel is gold during this pandemic.

Write the prophecy down for it will surely come to pass Zechariah 9

V-Rhino said you were good, he's right. I'm looking forward to going through your back catalogue after X-mas. Hope you have a good one.

@DigitalHammurabi

5 жыл бұрын

Glad to have you, I hope you enjoy the videos! Have a great holiday 😂

@normzemke7824

5 жыл бұрын

Viced Rhino sent me here too. And, yes, he is right about this channel. It is great. I'm an ancient history buff, so I like the detailed analysis that Digital Hammurabi is dishing up. Thanks!

Digital Hammurabi we should definitely do a history/archaeology hangout one of these days. Be good to do a methodology overview of how archaeology works :)

@DigitalHammurabi

5 жыл бұрын

YES! We're actually planning on having an archaeologist on to talk about basic methodology, but I think a hangout or group-discussion type thing would be fantastic.

@drussthelegend2046

5 жыл бұрын

@@DigitalHammurabi :) Keep me posted, Happy to cover top plans and provenance

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

4 жыл бұрын

read Ezekiel 29:18-19 his argument is destroyed and I've confronted him with this and he wont take this video down.

Thanks...this video made me subscribe

Oh, this is going to be good..

Whats ur opinion on ezrquiel 29? U kniw the desolation of egypt

@terjeber

3 жыл бұрын

No need to have an opinion on Ezekiel 29. Whatever your opinion of it is, it never came to pass. So, in this Ezekiel is zero for two.

I have a question regarding this prophecy. I know you were arguing that the “many nations” only referred to Nebuchadrezzar but according to Ezekiel 26:12, it says the the city would be destroyed and scraped into the water. According to Wikipedia, this event occurred. Can you explain how it was prophesied by Ezekiel and then later fulfilled by Alexander the Great? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Tyre_(332_BC)

@derekcouillard9505

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

4 жыл бұрын

read Ezekiel 29:18-19 his argument is destroyed and I've confronted him with this and he wont take this video down.

@Querent2000

4 жыл бұрын

@@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326 Repeating your stupid lies doesn't make any difference to anyone. Just stop it, you damn fool.

@redbad2652

4 жыл бұрын

According to Ezekiel 26:14. I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will NEVER be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken. The city is still there.

@IanD-ut4dy

4 жыл бұрын

@@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326 No reply to Nielsen regarding Ezekiel 26:14 huh? Bugger off and read a bit more.

Wonderful material: subscribed. Currently digging into Ezekiel for the moment and finding the material in 38-39 and it's relation to the Table of Nations in Genesis diverting. And heh, if you needed an idea for another video romp through Biblical Prophesy- and it's misuses- that might not be a bad one. Anyway, carry on. Great channel.

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

4 жыл бұрын

read Ezekiel 29:18-19 his argument is destroyed and I've confronted him with this and he wont take this video down.

@Iamwrongbut

3 жыл бұрын

Benaiah Tyndale Wyatt read Ezekiel 26:11, your argument is destroyed

You can clearly see here who not only will put the mark of the beast either on their forehead or their right hand but who are also looking forward to it.

@salamonfruith3687

4 ай бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Mark of the beast if about late 1.CE in a time of Nero Caesar 👍 so you are late with the accusations for few centuries. But again, better late than never. Ty

Obviously Ezekiel couldn’t name Alexander the Great as the one who would cast the city into the sea (aka using the houses as building material for the land bridge thus literally fulfilling the prophecy) because Alexander wasn’t born yet. God was simply using the language they could understand because they knew Nebuchadnessar. So Alexander was a Nebuchadnessar in a sense, just like Jesus was calling Judas a devil even though he definitely wasn’t an incarnation of Lucifer or any of his fallen angels.

Interesting thoughts, you might be right and wrong at the same time. The only thing you did is explain that a certain interpretation or explanation of the fulfillment of the Prophecy can be regarded differently, nothing is mentioned by you on verbs following the many nations in verbs 4 and 5. This by all means one can not come to the conclusion that the Prophecy was not fulfilled. Look at elements giving in this Prophecy: She (Tyres) will become plunder for THE nations. Exactly as you mentioned that many more nations would plunder this land after Nebuchadnezar. In verbs 6 it is even mentioned that the countryside (aka mainland) would be slaughtered by the sword. IN verbs 8 it is mentioned he (Nebuchadnezzar) would raise a great shield, can but not only be translated by shielded or shielded off. In verbs 15 it is even mentioned: will the islands not shudder? In verbs 16 more is mentioned that also “Princes of the sea... they will be seized with trembling”. One can argue whom is involved and into what extend. In verbs 21 it ends with: “I will bring sudden terror upon you, and you will no longer be. They will search for you, but you will never again be found...” If you look at Tyre’s history, even with or without Alexander The Great’s involvement, and today’s Tyre’s you can concluded that the old (palae) Tyre is never been built upon as of Nebuchadnezzar’s invasion, it is even declared as protected areas for its nature wetlands therefore it can not be build upon. So, if you take you own advice before proclaiming the Prophecy being failed you need to base it on more then only explaining verbs 3 “many nations”. At least take the whole of Ezekiel 26, and even take the references in to account from the time of David and Salomon in which the Tyre did not exist yet in its full extend. Not to mentioned, that the old historians: Josephus and Diodorus Siculus explained how old Tyre came to its end. The reference, although it only a smal portion of the Prophecy, to Alexander The Great might only refer to 1 aspect of the Prophecy, namely verbs 4: “... scrape away soil and make her a shining, bare rock” and verbs 12: “... throw your stones and your woodwork and your soil into the water.” Nebuchadnezzar did no such things, even if you look at the historians. So in my view, you might be right on the reference to “many nations”, but looking at the historical events until today and the Biblical historical events until Ezekiel 26 one can conclude that the possibility of the Prophecy is being fulfilled remains, that possibility alone arguments that your statement is judgmental. There is many more to this Prophecy then you currently tried to disclaim.

@justinhayes30

2 жыл бұрын

I thought about writing a reply, but this seems to sum up my questions with this video. After watching Mike Wingers video, he is much more convincing. Adding Alexander The Great, the details in the passage can be checked off one by one. If I was trying to disprove something, this is the angle I would take with this passage. I believe this video is more of a reach, than assuming Alexander the Great finished the job.

@Savannah_Simpson

Жыл бұрын

@@justinhayes30 I’m very concerned that you find the dude that said if god tells you to kill someone you should do it to be “convincing”

Another wonderfully detailed (and cited) presentation. I cannot thank you enough for giving ordinary people such easy access to scholarly work, for making it approachable but not dumbing it down. ❤

Even the smallest amount of research shows that you are misleading. Pierre Bikai (Tyre scholar): “The majority of the population must have lived on the mainland, while the island area was an administrative and religious center.” Ushu is commonly referred to as "Old Tyre" and the island city was "New Tyre" (wonder why) You present Tyre as if it were a wretched old place that always got conquered when it was actually the hub of naval power and wealth at the time.

This is quite convincing... Let's see whether it stands against criticism... Also @Digitalhamurabi.... I would like see you do formal debates with people who hold different views.. Loving the content

Didn’t Alexander raze the city to the ground after a 6 month siege circa 330 BC?

@erimgard3128

3 жыл бұрын

He did considerable damage. He didn't destroy the whole thing and plunge it into the sea never to be re-occupied. And Alexander also isn't mentioned in this verse anywhere.

@akragas4394

3 жыл бұрын

he destroyed it and rebuilt it.

@assumjongkey1383

3 жыл бұрын

@@akragas4394 realy

@gocrazy3564

2 жыл бұрын

Alexander had the city rebuilt, so that prophecy still flops with that apologetic narrative.

@TorianTammas

Жыл бұрын

Where in the bible story is a Alexander named that would conquer and rebuild Tyre?

I remember when you guys were a newbies 😂. Great job. Growing fast. Love the route you are taking. Thanks for the insights.

Could the part in Ezekiel 29 not be referring to the fact that whatever spoil they did receive was not regarded as "wages" enough for "the labor they expended on it." Also the passage in Ezekiel 26 refers to the "many nations" that come against Tyre "as the sea causes waves to come up" could you be mistaken that this prophecy was not meant to mean literally a sunken city. Furthermore, when it mentions Tyre as a place for "casting nets" could this not reference a place that would be looted, kind of a gathering of the spoils type meaning. Sorry for being long winded, these are all ideas I came up with just browsing through the passages after watching your video. You do an excellent job presenting your case, I do find your argument intriguing but maybe a bit biased toward things meant maybe metaphoric.

@DigitalHammurabi

4 жыл бұрын

I really appreciate the comment! The passage is so contentious, and I think needlessly so. It is almost universally understood among scholars in the field to be a prophecy that was not fulfilled as Ezekiel prophesied. The wages argument has come up before, but it (among other things) doesn’t address the island city resisting capture. The other references are clearly part of the poetic nature of the genre, but indicate the island fortress as the object of destruction in the prophecy.

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

4 жыл бұрын

read Ezekiel 29:18-19 his argument is destroyed and I've confronted him with this and he wont take this video down.

@angelaholt1211

Жыл бұрын

@@DigitalHammurabi kzread.info/dash/bejne/dYepqrCFobfAlJs.html

He says Tyre always means the island, and yet the very source he uses at 18:20 describes "the mainland of Tyre?" Can someone explain this?

@michaelsommers2356

Жыл бұрын

Does that really need explanation? The "mainland of Tyre" refers to the part of the mainland near to Tyre (and probably ruled, directly or indirectly) by Tyre. It certainly does not mean "Tyre is on the mainland". If today you were to say that you were going to conquer Los Angeles, and in fact all you conquered was Oxnard, you will not have conquered Los Angeles.

Please do you have some scholarship I can point someone to to read? He’s a Christian and now is going wayyyy deep into this but I fear his confirmation bias is not helping.

@DigitalHammurabi

5 жыл бұрын

Helen Pinkham A good place to start might be the short bibliography I give at 24:17. Block and Greenburg are good for content and bibliography.

@harrispinkham

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!

@digital Hammurabi You put a lot of emphasis that this prophecy states Nebuchadnezzar would attack the island of Tyre but the portion of chapter 26 that introduces him specifies that he will attack those on the mainland. "For thus says the Lord God : Behold, I will bring against Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, and with horsemen and a host of many soldiers. He will kill with the sword your daughters on the mainland. He will set up a siege wall against you and throw up a mound against you, and raise a roof of shields against you. Ezekiel 26 verses 7 & 8 If we ignore this specific reference to "He will kill with the sword your daughters on the mainland" then I agree it is easy to assume Nebuchadnezzar would be the agent to completely destroy Tyre, despite the fact we are told in Chapter 29 and verse 18 that he was not. I find it suspicious that the text would go so far as to specify the killing of those on the mainland and leave out a reference to Nebuchadnezzar killing those at sea or on the island of Tyre, if in fact that is what the writer was trying to express.

@jessw6296

4 жыл бұрын

Alexander the Great fulfilled the prophesy in the end so did the prophesy not come to pass?

@gabesalazar83

4 жыл бұрын

@@jessw6296 As you stated it the prophecy did come to fulfillment by Alexander. The video author was asserting that this prophecy was to be fulfilled in full by Nebuchadnezzar which the text does not support.

@sweydert

3 жыл бұрын

@@gabesalazar83 Correct, the text does not support this. However, as a longtime student of the Dunning-Kruger effect, this video is a prime example of how those with the least expertise in a domain are often the most eager to enlighten others -- so in this respect it has value.

@theautoman22

3 жыл бұрын

The mainland part was added at a later date by Biblical printing companies trying to explain away the obvious prophecy that didn’t come true.

@charlesburks2175

3 жыл бұрын

@@theautoman22 Evidence for your claim? I see none.

How can you lay siege against the greatest naval power of the time?

@hunterv9983

3 жыл бұрын

You negate their naval prowess. THEN you lay siege to the city.

is mister Winger saying that they had a secret tunnel like in Minas Tirith ?

Support for the 'many nations' referring to Babylon can be found in Jeremiah, especially 29:14-18. Referring to the Babylonian Captivity, he talks about the 'many nations' among whom the Jews had been scattered.

@DigitalHammurabi

5 жыл бұрын

Spot on! :-)

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

4 жыл бұрын

read Ezekiel 29:18-19 his argument is destroyed and I've confronted him with this and he wont take this video down.

@rodlurks66

3 жыл бұрын

@@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326 Really? another failed Ezekiel prophecy where YHVH gives Nebuchadnezzar a consolation prize (that shouldn't have been necessary) destroys the argument in this vid? how exactly?

Your evidence that “many people” in verse 7 is the same as “many nations” in verse 3 by saying the word for “many” is the same seems to do nothing to make your point. I could say “many apples” and “many oranges” in the same sentence, and that would not indicate that apples and oranges are the same thing.

@peytonperduyn9009

2 жыл бұрын

but if you said “many apples” and “many fruits” one could strongly argue that the “many fruits” is referring to the “many apples” you had previously mentioned.

@miroslavmatijevic6185

2 жыл бұрын

@@peytonperduyn9009 Yes, it could be valid explanation. But, many fruits could refer to many oranges also. Can not find good reason to exclude many oranges to be a part of many fruits!

i think it's very clear, even if the text is talking about Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander, the city was not submerged and was rebuild, and Nebuchadnezzar didn't destroyed Egypt, anyway im not interested in god's age of empires gameplay

The phonecians had many ships , the greatest naval power, is he saying Nebuchadnezzar built a navy to conquer the island, can he present some evidence, ?history shows it took alexander built the land bridge that finally conquered the island, his premises don’t seem to hold true.

Amd it is still a failed prophecy because Ezekiel states that Tyre will NEVER be rebuilt, which it had been by Jesus day

@myth6142

Жыл бұрын

And the amount of mental gymnastics Christians bring up in this video

Ezekiel 26 New International Version (NIV) A Prophecy Against Tyre 26 In the eleventh month of the twelfth[a] year, on the first day of the month, the word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, because Tyre has said of Jerusalem, ‘Aha! The gate to the nations is broken, and its doors have swung open to me; now that she lies in ruins I will prosper,’ 3 therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the sea casting up its waves. 4 They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock. 5 Out in the sea she will become a place to spread fishnets, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord. She will become plunder for the nations, 6 and her settlements on the mainland will be ravaged by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord. Prophecy fail, the bible is not 100% true. It really is that simple.

Brilliant analysis sir.

I definitely appreciate your strict adherence to the details of the text in the original language, and the examples from other prophecy. However, biblical prophesy commonly has a Now AND Later view where in the same passage we see events fufilled on the immediate future coupled with event fulfilled in the distant future. The time between then could be years, centuries or millennia, but in the end the prophecy get fulfilled. That same seems to be happening here, with main exception of the rebuilt city, however, we know in the ancient world, a city was more than people living in a place. It was the place their God was represented. So all aspcts of a city from the land, to the govt, people, rulers, and etc made up the city. If all that was destroyed and a new Govt, New God resettled the city, that city would not be the same city, just because it was inhabitated again. Even in modern days we see something akin to that with the fall of the USSR, but without their cities being destroyed. No one would argue the nation of the USSR still exists, even though many of it people and building still remain. So when you consider the details, other prophecy texts in this Now and Later context, and how everything predicted has happened, i see the prophecy as fulfilled. It may have not happened the way Ezekiel could understand based on the world around him and his limited knowledge, but the words he used, inspired by God, do not exclude this prophecy from being correctly fulfilled as we look back from the future.

This video was pretty good actually, but there was couple things which are debateable. Example the claim that Ushu and Tyre was not the same things, but infact there are sources which disagree with this. Verse 11 is important here. Phoenicia: History of Civilization 2nd ed.: “It is among the most remarkable peculiarities of Tyre, that it was a double-city - a city made up of two wholly distinct parts - one, a littoral island about three-quarters of a mile in length, separated from the mainland by a strait about half a mile wide, and the other a town upon the opposite shore. The town upon the shore was known to the Greeks and Romans as Palaetyrus, or “Old Tyre” - its twin sister was “the island Tyre”, or “New Tyre”, or “Tyre” emphatically.” [George Rawlinson (I. B. Tauris, 2005), 41.] Also Ezekiel might have used different definition (even though it is questionable) about the parts of Tyre. Also some scholars do claim that Nebukadnessar did conquer Tyre (E.G in book The Phoenicians and the West: Politics Colonies and Trade p. 33)

@DigitalHammurabi

5 жыл бұрын

You are absolutely correct that Tyre was a twin city. I think, though, that we cannot escape the fact that Ezekiel pronounces his judgment against the island city itself.

@kalevivaahteramaki851

5 жыл бұрын

Digital Hammurabi Yeah im not sure about it, since it seems to me that he refers to both. I would have to check this more.

@DigitalHammurabi

5 жыл бұрын

As well you should :-) There is a recent publication on Phonecian history (2018) by Josette Elayi. It was a good read :-)

@kalevivaahteramaki851

5 жыл бұрын

Digital Hammurabi oh thats interesting. I might have to read other stuff before reading too much at once :D

@kalevivaahteramaki851

5 жыл бұрын

Digital Hammurabi I have for example the boon called The Self Does Not Die, which is talking about 104 first hand independent sources of NDE's. They are verified cases and thats why i am interested.

Ancient history is messy and not for wimps

@raymondgrimaldi9207

3 жыл бұрын

It's written by the winners,and changed by the whiners

@davidburroughs2244

3 жыл бұрын

That varies, as to who the writer is ... can look at the recent rants (memiors) by the German generals excusing their failed invasion of the soviet union in ww2 as completely the fault of that megalomaniac ... what was that murderous dweebs name again?

Well done. Kudos.

Also, Jerimiah and Isaiah made the same false prophecy re. Tyre and they went on to prophecy the Babylonians would conquer Egypt as well, which they didn't. BOTH PROLPHECIES WERE FALSE.

You should cover Ezekiel chapter 29-33 where Nebuchadnezzar was supposed to destroy all Egypt and it would be a waste land for 40 years . This prophecy also didn’t come true.

@theautoman22

3 жыл бұрын

Shameless Papist the Babylonians were stopped near the border by the Egyptians with the help of Libyan and Greek mercenaries. The prophecy said all Egypt would be desolate not even an animal would remain and the Nile would dry up for 40 years, sorry none of it happened.

@theautoman22

3 жыл бұрын

Shameless Papist history doesn’t show Nebuchadnezzar sacking any Egyptian cities please mention where you’ve seen this written. And it maybe true that the writers used hyperbole when mentioning all of Egypt being desolate for 40 years. And yes it does say the Nile would dry up. Anyway if your going to claim the Bible is gods word then stuff like this needs to be proven true just like Tyre supposed to be wiped out forever yet their it is today.

@theautoman22

3 жыл бұрын

Shameless Papist you need to read Ezekiel chapters 29-33 where indeed he says that the country would be devastated by Nebuchadnezzar it would become a desolate waste land no humans not even an animal would be found their. It also does say the Nile would dry up and the area would be this way 40 years. Don’t listen to these others with their excuses. Yes Ezekiel does admit that his prophecy in chapter 26 about Tyre didn’t come true and said god would give him Egypt for a spoil. Ezekiel makes claims and prophecies against Tyre and then when it did happen does again with Egypt. Pleas read all the chapters I mentioned and then study or do your research concerning Nebuchadnezzar campaigns against Egypt . I did and could not find any evidence in history that supports the idea of Nebuchadnezzar doing any real damage to Egypt.

@theautoman22

3 жыл бұрын

Shameless Papist then you can not read or have terrible understanding.

@deeveevideos

3 жыл бұрын

@@theautoman22 then show what passages it does say that. Instead of just saying that it doesn't say that without the actual evidence. And in no point of the Bible can you take any section out of context everything is Flowing together and you have to know the whole context before you can take even the slightest verse out and examine it

Atheist claims about the prophecy of Tye are so clearly refuted by the facts that it is quite bizarre that they repeat their claims. It is done in desperation because the evidence of it's fulfillment is so clear. This motivates atheists to come against it. They are driven to and need to protect their conciense. Tyre was a city made of two parts: the mainland portion, and an island fortification approximately 3/4 of a mile off it's coast, which was not actually a city, but a place of refuge for the city's citizens and Tyre's army when attacked. Ezekiel predicted that many nations would come up against Tyre (Ezek. 26:3); that Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar would be the first to attack it (v. 7); that Tyre’s walls and towers would be broken down (vv. 4,9); that the stones, timbers, and debris of that great city would be thrown into the sea (v. 12); that its location would become a bare rock and a place for the drying of fishermens’ nets (vv. 4-5,14); and finally, that the city of Tyre would never be rebuilt (v.14). History bears eloquent testimony to the fact that all this is precisely what happened. Many nations did come up against Tyre - the Babylonians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Muslims, and the Crusaders, to name a few. And Nebuchadnezzar was indeed the first of these invaders, who - after a thirteen year siege - broke down the walls and towers of mainland Tyre, thus fulfilling the first of Ezekiel’s prophecies. Nebuchadnezzar massacred all of Tyre’s inhabitants except for those who escaped to an island fortress a half mile out in the Mediterranean Sea. Centuries after Ezekiel’s body had decomposed in his grave, Alexander the Great fulfilled a major portion of the prophecy. In order to conquer the island fortress of Tyre (without the luxury of a navy), he and his celebrated architect Diades devised one of the most brilliant engineering feats of ancient warfare. They built a causeway from Tyre’s mainland to the island fortress, using the millions of cubic feet of rubble left over on mainland Tyre. Thus Tyre was scraped bare as a rock, just as Ezekiel predicted. 1. Ezekiel says many nations would come against tire to destroy it. Extrabiblical history verifies that this is exactly what happened. Tyre was repeatedly demolished. Babylon, Syria, Egypt, Rome, Greece, Armenia, and Persia are but a sampling of the “many nations” that had a part in the ultimate destruction of Tyre. 2. It is in verse 12 and following that Ezekiel predicts that “they” will lay the stones and building material of Tyre in the “midst of the waters.” Ezekiel said Tyre would be scraped clean like a base rock. Alexander the Great had his army remove all of the materials of the city and throw them into the sea to build a causeway for his army to invade the island portion of the city. As Alexander could not attack the city from the sea, he built a kilometre-long causeway stretching out to the island on a natural land bridge no more than two meters deep. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Tyre_(332_BC) 4. Ezekiel said Tyre would be covered by the waters of the sea. Geology verifies the present area of Tye has been covered by the sea and was buried by sand. The sandbar upon which modern Tyre has been built did not exist in ancient times and verifies geologically that Tyre has indeed been swallowed by the sea. In ancient times, there was no sandbar at tyre: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Tyre_(332_BC) Tyre before it was covered by the sea with no landbridge or sandbar: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Siege_tryre.gif Tyre after it was buried in the sea, with a landbridge created by Alexander and sandbar created by the sea: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Tyre-aerial-photo-by-France-Military-1934.jpg Tyre today: sophismata.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/tyre_today_satellite.jpg This prophecy of Tyre is but one among many examples of meticulously detailed and fulfilled prophecies, any one of which is sufficient to demonstrate the truth and accuracy of Scripture. “I have spoken,” says the Lord of Hosts. The Scripture can­not be broken (John 10:35).

@DigitalHammurabi

4 жыл бұрын

Did you actually watch this video at all? And neither of the people who run this channel are atheists. One is a Christian, and the other is Agnostic.

@DigitalHammurabi

4 жыл бұрын

Not that I think this will do any good (as I have seen Mr. Free in several debates, and he does not appear to listen well), but you should take some time and read through the relevant secondary literature on n this topic. What you will find, sir, is that the scholarly consensus (“believing” and “unbelieving” scholars alike) is that Ezekiel’s prophecy went unfulfilled. Should you require a bibliography for said secondary literature, I would be happy to provide it.

@NephilimFree

4 жыл бұрын

@@DigitalHammurabi "What you will find, sir, is that the scholarly consensus (“believing” and “unbelieving” scholars alike) is that Ezekiel’s prophecy went unfulfilled." Bull *caugh* We hear this false claim from unbelievers much. When investigated, it always turns out to be false, and that vastly more scholars dissagree with the nonbeliever than do. It's a tired mantra of rhetoric. Below is a very small sample of the scholars who acknowledge the prophecies of Tyre were fulfilled. The list, if made complete, would included thousands of scholars: H.L. Ginsberg Albright, W.F. (1948), “The Old Testament and Archaeology,” Old Testament Commentary, ed. Herbert Alleman and Elmer Flack (Philadelphia, PA: Muhlenberg Press). “Ancient Phoenicia” (no date), [On-line], URL: gorp.away.com/gorp/location/africa/phonici5.htm. “Ancient Tyre (Sour)” (no date), [On-line], URL: ancientneareast.tripod.com/Tyre.html. Archer, Gleason L. Jr. (1974), A Survey of Old Testament Introduction (Chicago, IL: Moody), revised edition. Barfield, Kenny (1995), The Prophet Motive (Nashville, TN: Gospel Advocate). Benjamin of Tudela (no date), “Traveling in Jerusalem,” [On-line], URL: chass.colostate-pueblo.edu/history/seminar/benjamin.htm. Benjamin of Tudela (1907), The Itinerary of Benjamin of Tudela (New York, NY: The House of the Jewish Book), [On-line], URL: chass.colostate-pueblo.edu/history/seminar/benjamin/ benjamin1.htm. Davis, George T.B. (1931), Fulfilled Prophecies that Prove the Bible (Philadelphia, PA: Million Testaments Campaign). Fleming, Wallace B. (1966), The History of Tyre (New York, NY: AMS Press). Free, Joseph P. and Howard F. Vos (1992), Archaeology and Bible History (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan). Greenleaf, Simon (1995), The Testimony of the Evangelists (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Classics). Herodotus, (1972 reprint), The Histories, trans. Aubrey De Sélincourt (London: Penguin). Josephus, Flavius (1987), The Life and Works of Flavius Josephus: Against Apion, trans. William Whitson (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson). Katzenstein, Jacob (1973), The History of Tyre (Jerusalem: The Schocken Institute for Jewish Research). Keil, C.F. and F. Delitzsch (1982 reprint), Commentary on the Old Testament-Ezekiel and Daniel (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans). Miller, Dave (1995), “Introduction to Ezekiel,” Major Lessons from the Major Prophets, ed. B.J. Clarke (Pulaski, TN: Sain Publications). Rufus, Quintus Curtius (2001), The History of Alexander, trans. John Yardley (New York, NY: Penguin). Septuagint (1998 reprint), (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson). Siculus, Diodorus (1963), Library of History, trans. C. Bradford Welles (Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press). Smith, James (1979), Ezekiel (Joplin, MO: College Press). Till, Farrell (no date), “Prophecies: Imaginary and Unfulfilled,” [On-line], URL: www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/prophecy.html. “Tyre” (2006), Columbia Encyclopedia, [On-line], URL: yahooligans.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry?id=48355. Kris Udd, Grace University, Humanities, Faculty Member Paul Ferguson PhD Crai.Zeke - Craigie, Peter. Ezekiel. Philadelphia: Westminster, 1983. Flem.Tyre - Fleming, Wallace B. The History of Tyre. New York: Columbia U. Press, 1915. James Rochford Steve Ledbetter Andrew Perriman Bernard Ramm Grant Osborne, professor of New Testament at Trinity International University in Deerfield, IL Berkeley Mickelsen, former Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Bethel Theological Seminary in St. Paul, MN Philip Myers, General History for Colleges and High Schools, Ginn and Co., Boston, MA, Nelson Gulech The fact show the prophecy was fulfilled, as I have provided them. You can deny the facts all you like but you cannot change them.

@DigitalHammurabi

4 жыл бұрын

Let’s simply take one of your citations. I would challenge you to read Kris Udd’s article, “Prediction and Foreknowledge In Ezekiel’s Prophecy against Tyre,” (Tyndale Bulletin 56.1 [2005] 25-40). I will quote from his article in brief: “Ezekiel’s prophecy that Tyre would be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar was not fulfilled in the manner predicted by the prophet. This is demonstrated from extra-biblical literature, supported by archaeological evidence, and acknowledged by Ezekiel himself in a later prophecy” (25). Again, “When Ezekiel prophesied the imminent doom of the city of Tyre (Ezek. 26:1-21), many Israelites must have been elated. Jerusalem was nearing the end of a siege by the Babylonians, a siege that would end in the fall of the city and the deportation of much of her population. However, with the passage of time it became clear that the prophecy against Tyre would not be fully realized. There must have been some real head-scratching among faithful Israelites. The failure of Ezekiel’s prophecy continues to present some challenging questions to Christians today” (25). Remember, this was one of the scholars that you cited. What I would recommend is, rather than listing out a long string of scholars (some of whose arguments you appear not to have fully considered), please take the time to read the works of these individuals and set forth the arguments that they make. I actually think that, if you take the time to read Kris Udd’s article, you will find that he summarizes and considers the mainstream conservative arguments concerning this passage. Until such time, I think interacting with you would prove fruitless. Best of luck to you.

@NephilimFree

4 жыл бұрын

@@DigitalHammurabi How fortunate that you found a goofy scholar in my list. Again, thousands of scholars disagree with your bogus statement. Show us a statement by a prominent scholar who says the consensus opinion of scholars is that the Tyre prophecy failed. If you were able to find such a statement, and I doubt one could be found, it would represent a smattering of secular, nay-saying, disbelieving scholars. If compared to the number of biblical scholars who acknowledge that the prophecy was fulfilled based upon the facts, your claim of a concensus it would prove to be no such thing at all, but a tiny number of scholars in comparison. At that point you would whine that "Well they are all Bible-believing scholars so what do you expect???" How many times have we heard these games from people like yourself? It's all too common. You got caught with your pants down making a claim that cannot be supported. Learn from this mistake, and do not make it again. Moreover, the facts remain and are irrefutable: 1. Tyre was destroyed repeatedly by several kingdoms as secular history verifies, as Ezekiel said it would be. 2. Tyre was tossed into the sea as secular history verifies, as Ezekiel said it would be. 3. Tyre became a place where fishermen spread their nets for drying as modern-day observation verifies, as Ezekiel said it would be. 4. Try was swallowed by the sea as geology verifies, as Ezekiel said it would be. 5. Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom was divided in two, then four, then the four merged into one as secular history verifies, as Ezekiel said it would be. I have already provided this evidence and you are welcome to deny reality because you do not want to believe the Bible. But the facts make it clear that people like yourself do not make the claims that you do because of facts, but merely because you refuse to believe scripture is prophetic, which is profound evidence of divine inspiration, which you refuse to believe. The prophecies in the Bible that have been fulfilled are astonishing and prove it is of divine nature - something quite easy to prove. If I provided a cursory list of them it would be to your shame. Now, I do not debate in text format. This is the most text I have typed in response to a disbeliever in quite some time. The majority of nay-sayers and disbelievers want to do only that, because they fear a recording being on the internet of them being refuted by a Christian apologist. If you wish to have any more of my attention it will be because you have contacted James at Modern-Day Debate (kzread.info/dron/_cd4oF2phaIBD3WsU3f7Xg.html) and arranged a structured debate with me about whether or not fulfilled prophecies in the Bible provide evidence of it's divine inspiration. I am done here. Goodbye.

Tyre was a shipping industry and that required hemp and hemp was the king of tyre and hemp was forgotten about 70 years and only known as marijuana and smoked until recently and hemp seeds are sold at many food stores now including Walmart...

My research on Eze 26:12 originals show that neither Hebrew nor Greek original texts contain a word directly corresponding to "he" or "they". The subjects in both texts both mean "Power, might, strength, force, duress; ability, capability; miracle, wonder; resources; source of power; armed military force, army" and the corresponding verb in Hebrew is singular and in Greek plural. Hence there's no discrepancy between the Mesoretic and Septuagint texts in Eze 26:12 meaning wise. Not sure why the English translators had to substitute with a "he" or "they". Regarding "all the pillars". The greek word ὑπόστασίν means "sustenance, support, subsistence; foundation of a building; substantial nature, essence, actual being". It makes sense to me when it is used to refer to any religious temple pillars. However, it makes more sense here to say the fundamental support for Tyre would be brought to ground, which includes the gods Tyrians believed in. The way you read into it is likely you believed the greek word should be translated as "a wood column supporting a temple" only. In addition, it is the "ἰσχύος (an expert, one with abiity; strength, might, power, abiity, forcefulness)" who would brought down to the ground the powerful strengthening "pillars". Again, no "he" here, so it doesn't need to be interpreted as referring to Nebuchadnezzar at all. I didn't do real research on "all the streets" (already too much time spent on this today) but it is quite possible it refers to all main market or residential streets, which might not exist on the island, if it was merely a "fortress" at that time. As for why the bible uses one word for Nebbuchadnezzar's army and another for the nations I'm not sure and don't see how it is critical in this matter yet. The only reason I am here because I was trying to understand Eze 26 when reading it this morning. If you're interested below is what I found in greek for verses 11 and 12. The Hebrew originals are on my cell so I'll save myself some energy from pasting them here. 11 ἐν ταῖς ὁπλαῖς τῶν ἵππων αὐτοῦ καταπατήσουσίν σου πάσας τὰς πλατείας· τὸν λαόν σου μαχαίρᾳ ἀνελεῖ (to destroy, to take away) καὶ τὴν ὑπόστασίν (sustenance, support, subsistence; foundation of a building; substantial nature, essence, actual being) σου (you) τῆς (the )ἰσχύος (an expert, one with abiity; strength, might, power, abiity, forcefulness) ἐπὶ (where) τὴν (the this that) γῆν (earth, dirt; ground) κατάξει (bring down). “ 12 καὶ (Conjunction, and; together with) προνομεύσει (Verb: Fut Act Ind 3rd Sing, to plunder, spoil) τὴν (Definite article: Acc Sing Fem, at that time, then) δύναμίν (Noun: Acc Sing Fem, Power, might, strength, force, duress; ability, capability; miracle, wonder; resources; source of power; armed military force, army; ) σου (Possessive Pronoun: 2nd Gen Sing) καὶ (and ) σκυλεύσει (Verb: Fut Act Ind 3rd Sing, to plunder; to take possession of by force) τὰ (Definite Article: Nom/Acc Plur Neut, tavern, wooden huts or buildings, shop, store) ὑπάρχοντά (Pres Act Nom/Acc Plur Neut, to exist, be present; to belong, possess; Substantival: one’s possessions and livelihood that contribute to one’s existence; Substantival: one in charge of possessions) σου (Possessive pronoun: 2nd Gen Sing) καὶ (and) καταβαλεῖ (Verb: Fut Act Ind 3rd Sing, to throw down, cast down, overthrow) σου (your) τὰ τείχη (Noun: Nom/Acc Plur Neut, wall, city wall, protective wall) καὶ τοὺς οἴκους σου τοὺς ἐπιθυμητοὺς καθελεῖ καὶ τοὺς λίθους σου καὶ τὰ ξύλα σου καὶ τὸν χοῦν σου εἰς μέσον τῆς θαλάσσης ἐμβαλεῖ.

@HaoJingChangZai

3 жыл бұрын

@@yaruqadishi8326 What kind of bias could you be specific? I only had the time to dig up for those words because they are what 's being argued about and then I shared my conclusion based on those dictionary definitions, which are not mine. Did I actually "translate" anything?

@HaoJingChangZai

3 жыл бұрын

@@yaruqadishi8326 Your words are very offending and arrogant to me. For your reference: www.greekdoc.com/lexicon/so.html#soua Post what you can get for Verse 11 and 12 please.

@HaoJingChangZai

3 жыл бұрын

@@yaruqadishi8326 By the way, if you can read Chinese, I can screen shot the Chinese-hebrew dictionary on my cell phone, similar to the English-Greek one I just posted.

You mention it in a offhand remark, but one of the strongest arguments against the apologist view, is that Ezekiel ALSO distinguishes quite clearly between Tyre and Ushu. So, the idea that Ezekiel refers to Ushu is preposterous. This also makes irrelevant the distinguishing between "he" and "they" elsewhere in the text. Since Ezekiel is quite specific about what the King is going to do to Tyre ("his horses", "he will"), combined with the clear distinguishing between Tyre and Ushu in Ezekiel him self, makes the "he" and "they" change irrelevant. Even if it was true that the "they" refers to the later Alexandrian conquest, Ezekiel says "he" and "his" about a lot of the specific destruction to befall Tyre, and he clearly says that Tyre refers exclusively to the island city, not the mainland Ushu. Since the King never enters the city of Tyre, as Ezekiel him self defines it, "he" can not have "his" horses trample its streets. For example.

@autobotstarscream765

3 жыл бұрын

Didn't Ezekiel also literally say that Nebudchadnezzer was supposed to do the thing and failed, so God was gonna punish Nebudchadnezzer for his failure?

@terjeber

3 жыл бұрын

@@autobotstarscream765 No, God promised that he (God) would hand Tyre over to him. God didn't. Then God said that since he'd failed to deliver on his promise of handing over Tyre to the King, the King would get Egypt instead. God failed to deliver on that one too. So, either God is incompetent, a liar, or the entire Bible is just one long trope of nonsense. You can pick which one suits you the best.

@gocrazy3564

3 жыл бұрын

@@terjeber exactly. The other apologetic position Christians take on the failed Ezekiel prophecy is that Alexander the Great "fulfilled" it. The problem is that the city was "rebuilt" several times after Alexander's passing and the city still exists to this day...

@terjeber

3 жыл бұрын

@@gocrazy3564 Also, the apologetic position is insincere and BS. It's impossible for Alexander to fulfill the prophecy since the prophecy is so specific. In the prophecy Ezekiel says, referring to King N. "demolish your towers with his weapons" This prophecy is specifically referring to an action that King N will take, an action he never took. Same below, where E says that King N will enter the gates of Tyre with his war horses. The King never entered the city with his army. "walls will tremble at the noise of the warhorses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates" So, the apologetic position is entirely BS. tabinnorway.wordpress.com/

@gocrazy3564

3 жыл бұрын

@@terjeber 💯% facts!

The prophecy of Ezekiel 26:14 does not mean there would never be anything built on the island. It means that, after its final defeat by wave after wave of conquerors, Tyre would never regain the status it held in Ezekiel’s day. Tyre would never again be a commercial superpower, a world trader, or a colonizer. Tyrians would never again possess the riches and prosperity they had in their city’s heyday. When God told Tyre, “You will never be rebuilt,” He did not lie. Ancient Tyre was stripped of its glory and strength. Modern Tyre is but a shadow of its former reality. The businesses and dwellings that now stand on the ancient site are a far cry from the luxury, greatness, or influence of the original city-state. That Tyre-the Tyre judged by God-will never be reconstituted or rebuilt.

I'd like to know, do you have a written version of this?

@DigitalHammurabi

5 жыл бұрын

Sounds like the information is there, but you haven’t acquired it.

Uh, the problem with your explanation is that the plural "many nations" was mentioned in verse 3 BEFORE Nebuchadnezzar was mentioned in verse 7. Therefore, the shift in verse 12 isn't a problem to Mr. Winger's explanation. You made a common mistake of context. Take the whole passage, not just a few verses.

@DigitalHammurabi

5 ай бұрын

It seems as though you don’t understand the structure of the chapter.

@dpollard5286

5 ай бұрын

@@DigitalHammurabi you mean like the fact that the prophecy is in the plural for the four verses before Nebuchadnezzar is even mentioned? How Nebuchadnezzar is in the second paragraph of the prophecy which would indicate a break in the thought or the beginning of a list of what is going to happen? Therefore, Nebuchadnezzar would only be a part of the "many nations" and not the only nation included. Also, verse 3, 7, and 15 all start with the phrase "thus says the Lord GOD" which further indicates a break in thought of the passage, and further seperate Nebuchadnezzar and the "many nations" in verse 3. The structure is quite simple to follow as long as you just take it as it is.

Wait, so you think Nebuchadnezzar besieged an island with no fresh water supply for 12 years! See you said they got there fresh water from Ushu but then it was conquered easily. Then where did they get water to survive 12 years of besiegement

@thomasfplm

3 жыл бұрын

With the navy bringing water from somewhere else.

Winger’s interpretation is lifted directly from J.Vernon McGhee’s “Thru the Bible” commentary, apparently. Read that commentary cover to cover years ago.

@DigitalHammurabi

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the citation! ☺️

@AnUnhappyBusiness

3 жыл бұрын

@@DigitalHammurabi was looking through some old commentaries and this goes back a ways before McGhee apparently, as John Gill (18th century Particular Baptist) holds to basically the same interpretation. Now I am wondering who came up with it first.

Tyre is an example of more apologist coulda's, woulda's, speculations and post-event insertions. To really understand apologist desperation, nearly every biblical story is filled with these insertions and interpretations. Taken as a whole, the apologist position only demonstrates the pathetic weakness of biblical claims and history due to the wild justifications and coincidences applied.

Romans 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,

I have one question. - You claim, that "they" simply refers to Nebuchadnezzar's army, but why does the text then use "he" in verse 11, 10, 9, when "they" would be a more accurate word to use, if your interpetation of the pronoun "they" is correct? Wouldnt the fact, that "he" is used in verse 11 to talk about Nebuchadnezzar's armies and their actions, indicate that "he" refers to Nebuchadnezzar and his armies, while "they" refers to the many nations talked about in verse 3, that arent nessecarily Nebuchadnezzar's armies?

@007dog1

3 жыл бұрын

👀👀

@haha-gg2rc

3 жыл бұрын

@@007dog1 Do you have any criticism of my observation? I will make it my point more clear: - "He" is used to refer to Nebuchadnezzar and his army in verses 8, 9, 10 and 11. - There is a change from "he" to "they" in verse 12. - Verse 3 says "many nations... like the sea casting up its waves". - If "they" refer to Nebuchadnezzar and his army, why was "he" used in verses 8, 9, 10 and 11 instead of "they", when talking about Nebuchadnezzar and his army and what they will do? And why make the intentional change from "he" to "they", if they refer to the same thing? Thus I believe, it makes the most sense, that "they" simply refers to the many nations, which may be more than just Nebuchadnezzar and his armies.

I'm not a scholar. This is my uneducated opinion here. But it just seems obviously wrong from the context and, as you say, internal logic of the story. It cannot be Alexander. If you read the beginning of Ezekiel 26, verse 4, Yahweh gives the reader an introductory summary of the upcoming judgment on Tyre. Yahweh says that the end goal is that Tyre will become a bare rock in the midst of the sea. This is obviously the island. How does the island become a bare rock? All of the debris will be thrown into the ocean. Kill everyone, steal the valuables, destroy the buildings, then remove Tyre from history by throwing its infrastructure into the sea. It even says to throw the soil into the sea. If there's no soil, then you have a bare rock. The action of debris removal is the ultimate "fuck you" to Tyre. It is the CONCLUSIVE act to the siege according to the introductory summary. Therefore, it is no coincidence that when "They" removes the debris in Ezekiel 26:12, it is actually the VERY LAST action of the army that happens during the siege. It is the last action of the assault. The pillaging and looting and destruction of the walls come BEFORE the debris removal. Additionally, in the very next verse, it is REITERATED that Tyre has now become a bare rock. That's because Ezekiel is saying it is finished. Debris removal = the end. It has nothing to do with Alexander building a causeway with the debris from the mainland. It would also make no sense, because why would debris removal be listed LAST? That's when the destruction really started for Alexander.

'He, John, is coming over to you later. Don't make a coffee, they will bring you a coffee' Shifted from one pronoun to another, with no change in meaning or identification of who will be bring the coffee. Is this how desperate they've gotten?

@shellshockedbros4458

11 ай бұрын

You wouldn't say, "They will bring you a coffee." You would say, "He will bring you a coffee." Nice strawman, but try again.

Antonio Ciasca of Rome Calls the City Destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar “The Mainland Sector of the City of Tyre” Ciasca makes the following statement: The mainland sector of the city of Tyre (called Ushu in Egyptian and Assyrian texts and Palai-Tyros in classical sources) was situated 6 km [3.7 mi] further south...The causeway built by Alexander the Great to reach the besieged city, and the gradual silting up around this line, contributed towards extending the artificial area which emerged...that of a peninsula jutting into the sea (Ciasca 1988: 147, 148, emphasis added). Notice that Ciasca calls the “Old Tyre” destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar “the mainland sector of the city of Tyre.

Author Nina Jidejian summarizes the history of Tyre after Nebuchadnezzar: Looking down into the water one can see a mass of granite columns and stone blocks strewn over the sea bottom. Until recently the ruins of Tyre above water were few. How was the ancient metropolis of Phoenicia so utterly demolished? Devastated by drawn-out sieges and earthquakes throughout her long history, Tyre from the 18th century onward has served as a “quarry” for the whole coast. Her stones may be found as far away as Acre and Beirut (1996: 13-14).

@dindin8753

7 ай бұрын

Tyre look beautiful nowadays they have atleast 200,000 people who live in there

Here's how I'm spending my evening after a tiring day with horses. I dink moonshine I bought from the stores (so not authentic) and watch War Thunder and Men of War game play videos silent while listening to Digital Hammurabi. Nice.

I am 15 and a Christian and I found this video to be interesting, but at the same time, I would still hold that this part of Ezekial is too accurate to just dismiss completely especially with the land bridge and how if you can get past the idea that it was referring to Nebuchadnezzar it seems to fit perfectly with what would be expected. It would be nice if I too one day could be a scholar like you Digital Hammurabi, but I plan on going to college for education in entrepreneurship. If I do get enough time to study Near Eastern language or Greek, it might not be until I am 73 and by then I will probably be a father of many nations!

@raymondgrimaldi9207

3 жыл бұрын

When your prophecy doesn't get fulfilled,it doesn't get fulfilled...no matter how you twist it

@007dog1

3 жыл бұрын

Bro I was just replying to another guy. This is literally a guy trying to reinterpret the bible in order not to believe it. Which is literally all this argument is. A reinterpretation. It's what several people do with the bible in order to create new beliefs in doctrines. So as I was telling another guy, it's all about who or what you choose to believe. If a person wants a reason not to believe the bible, they will find it and hold unto it til the day of judgement. But for those who actually want to believe for real, God will lead them to the right people. You have those who choose to trust the research and understanding of men who are against the bible, then you have those who hear the research and understanding of men that support the bible and go to God for a clarity of it's truth. It simply burrows down to who a person choosing to believe or choosing not too. Most people ignorant to the belief of God because that's what they chose. Not because that's what is.

@terjeber

3 жыл бұрын

@@007dog1 So, what do you do when, as is the case with the prophecies of Ezekiel, the story in the Bible is contradicted not by opinions but by reality? It's an objective fact that the prophecies of Ezekiel never were fulfilled. Remember, Ezekiel also promised that king N was going to conquer Egypt. He never did. Are you saying that if there is a discrepancy between what is written in the Bible and objective reality, then reality is wrong?

@nathanwalsh6300

3 жыл бұрын

@@raymondgrimaldi9207 No, I said it fits nicely, but I never said that it's the best interpretation...

@007dog1

3 жыл бұрын

@@terjeber So we (Mainstream scholars) have all the archaeological evidence about everything that happened in the past concerning egypt? As well as, we have all the proper knowledge to interpret what the bible is saying, and talking about? That's a pretty strong faith!

@ 8:15 "We know not only for the text, but from history..." HOW can you KNOW from history?? Were you there??

@organicskincare

4 жыл бұрын

@Simón Dellepiane - how did he make the case with a failed prophecy from archeological remains??

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

4 жыл бұрын

Mercy Fields read Ezekiel 29:18-19 argument destroyed

@IanD-ut4dy

4 жыл бұрын

@@organicskincare How do you KNOW Jesus existed as the miracle working son of God? Were you there?

@IanD-ut4dy

4 жыл бұрын

@@JesusIsaFlatEarther Oh dear. You're too far gone I see. Pointless to proceed, especially considering you don't even recognize the multiple times the creation story has been wrong, let alone the contradictory nature of genesis 1 vs genesis 2. LMFAO, idiot.

It depends on which Tyre it’s talking about. 1. The antediluvian type for Tyre 2. Tyre itself 3. The end of age type for Tyre which is also called Mystery Babylon.

Why are prophecies always complicated and without specific times? Why can’t they be clear snd simple?

@swithinegwuchim481

2 жыл бұрын

Read the prophecies in Daniel 9... it has time stamps... they were fulfilled

@LiberatedMind1

2 жыл бұрын

@@swithinegwuchim481 Name one specified prophecy that was fulfilled, and prove that it was written before the even happened.

@swithinegwuchim481

2 жыл бұрын

@@LiberatedMind1 That would a long conversation... Do you think KZread is a good place for that? Here's a link to Mike Winger's on Daniel 9: kzread.info/dash/bejne/on9ptNWIkbnfZLg.html Most of what I would have said come from Mike anyway. Enjoy 😊

@1969cmp

2 жыл бұрын

@@LiberatedMind1 ....Isaiah is a good one to research. Isaiah was written about 700b.c. though the earliest copy is dated 120b.c. You can look at it or read it at the Dead Sea scrolls museum and is over 90% complete. This is significant as Isaiah is a Messianic book.....in other words it relates to Jesus of Nazareth who lived some centuries later. It's worth investigation. Another is Ezekiel. In chapters 35 and 36 is prophecy relating to the rebirth of Israel which happened in 1948. And no one has put forward a proposal for skeptics that Ezekiel was written in 1949.

@LiberatedMind1

2 жыл бұрын

​@@1969cmp Isaiah has never been proven to relate to Jesus. The Gospel of Matthew actually takes the verses of Isaiah out of context to try and make them appear as though they do. Isaiah 7:14 for example is promising that a young woman (not virgin) will give birth to a boy named Emmanuel. Before this boy knows "right from wrong" the enemies of King Ahaz will fail. That cannot be for Jesus, for Jesus was obviously not a boy during the reign of Kong Ahaz. As far as the modern nation of Israel being a fulfillment of prophecy, it doesn't truly count as you had people actively making it happen. Zionists Rothschilds (and probably others) bribed the British Prime Minister into establishing a mandate in Palestine, which would later become Israel. Political bribery and military might is not an act of God. The fulfillment of the land promise to the Jews is actually confirmed in Joshua 21. Thus the "promise" for them to live there forever actually failed, as that was before there various exiles. *Be careful with reading into prophecies that aren't there, it's called Eisegesis (please google that).*

What is he arguing about? Tyre doesn't exist

@DigitalHammurabi

4 жыл бұрын

I think the city’s inhabitants may disagree with you... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre,_Lebanon

@gocrazy3564

3 жыл бұрын

Tyre most definitely exists. 🤣

Respectfully, I found none of your refutations to be convincing or logically sound. Thanks

@DigitalHammurabi

2 жыл бұрын

Respectfully, we don’t really care.

This reminds me, must get a new set of tyres.

genuine question, the book says that Nebuchadnezzar would conquer the mainland, not the island

@warriorxd2701

Жыл бұрын

Actually It says that Nebuchadnezzar was going to kill the people of the mainland, it does not say he was going to only destroyed or conquer the mainland city.

The reason the prophecy is unfulfilled is it is an end time prophecy against Babylon the Great. If you study Isaiah's prophecy against Tyre found in Isaiah 23 you will see that his prophecy against Tyre is really prophecy against a migrating city that has existed in at least one other geographic location. You will also see that the description of Tyre matches the description of Babylon the Great. Babylon the Great is really a city that has existed in seven geographic locations during the reigns of seven kings and kingdoms. Tyre was one of the locations for the city. Study Isaiah's prophecy against Tyre in Isaiah 23 to see it for yourself.

@danielsnyder2288

2 жыл бұрын

The Bible says right, but ignore that, it really means left because is some other verse God is left handed

Question: Ezekiel (26:14, 27:36) prophesies that Tyrus (Tyre) will be completely destroyed by Nebuchadrezzar and will never be built again. But it wasn't destroyed, as evidenced by the visits to Tyre by Jesus and Paul (Mt.15:21, Mk.7:24, 31, Acts 21:3). Response: Non-believers often interpret this prophecy found in Ezekiel 26:1-21 as meaning that Nebuchadnezzar was supposed to be the one who destroyed Tyre. Believers, however, including myself, often interpret this prophecy as meaning that "many nations" were supposed to destroy the Phoenician city of Tyre, over a long period of time, beginning with Nebuchadnezzar. We base our interpretation on verse 3, which states that "many nations" would attack Tyre, like waves casting against the shore. And history shows that many nations did attack Tyre. Alexander the Great used ships from many nations to conquer the island city in about 332 BC, bringing a permanent end to the Phoenician Empire.

@DigitalHammurabi

Ай бұрын

My goodness. Did you even watch the video?

Recon and message that bible text to make it say whatever you want, CLASSIC. Bible clearly failed Ezekiel 26:14 . I can book an AirBnb there right now, it is still around.

@DigitalHammurabi

3 жыл бұрын

Did you watch the video?

This kind of thing is why I don't really trust apologetics anymore....

@derekcouillard9505

4 жыл бұрын

Apologetics don't contibute to faith. Facts are always changing. When you have a walk with God, he reveals the truth, not only in scripture, but overtime.

@robccoy124

4 жыл бұрын

You should try reviewing the information yourself. As I mentioned before, he said that this was ONLY referring to Nebuchadnezzar and that "many nations" doesn't actually mean "many nations." However, he missed the illustration given that contextualizes that phrase. It compares the attacks of these "many nations" to the waves of a sea. This shows that it's referring to more than ONE nation, king or conqueror. Furthermore, like the waves of the sea, there's a delay between waves. Similarly, throughout history we see Tyre attacked and destroyed in just this manner.

@robccoy124

4 жыл бұрын

Blaster Master While Alexander the Great was making his causeway to invade the island of Tyre, the inhabitants were mocking him and his soldiers. They did so because the island of Tyre was well fortified and offered great protection(which is why those who lived in Old Tyre fled there during Nebuchadnezzar’s invasion). So, it’s one thing to proclaim a vague prophecy against a nation, it’s another thing to pronounce a “specific prophecy” against a well fortified and well situated island like Tyre and have it play out literally. Alexander LITERALLY took the remains of old Tyre, along with the trees and the very soil itself and laid it in the sea to make a causeway to destroy Tyre. Exactly as the prophesy said.

@robccoy124

4 жыл бұрын

@Blaster Master A few things. 1. This prophecy was meant for more than just Nebuchadnezzar. Like many prophecies in the Bible, an illustration is usually given to facilitate understanding. In this case, the attack of many nations is likened to the WAVES of the sea. 2. Ezekiel didn't retract his prophecy. Nebuchadnezzar fulfilled his part. It was decreed that since he didn't receive the spoil from Tyre, his reward would be Egypt. 3. Biblical Prophecies that seemingly switch focus in the middle of a prophecy is not uncommon. Think of it like a movie. A wide shot is presented, then a close up on certain part of the story, then it returns to a wide shot again. This is common. Last, , have you actually studied Isaiah chapter 53 in depth? Or did you simply read someone else's thoughts ABOUT it?

@robccoy124

4 жыл бұрын

@War Peace I've been studying the Bible for roughly 15 years. This includes not only the contents, but also, the culture, process by which it was preserved and so much more. I've also had the privilege of experiencing the reality of God for myself roughly 15 years ago. So while I don't have any degree in theology, my knowledge and understanding of the scriptures will speak for itself. Also, having the title scholar, honestly doesn't mean much to me. If these so called scholars have never experienced the reality of Jesus Christ for themselves, then the true depths of Bible are hidden from them.

Tyre, no matter how you look at the prophecy, today is a quite sad place compared to its antiquity glory. It’s been humbled and subdued. I’m calling that a win for the prophet. That place used to supply ships and riches to the known world. Now…not so much.

@DigitalHammurabi

2 жыл бұрын

It seems as though Ezekiel disagreed with your assessment.

Claim 1) Ezekiel spoke very truly when he said MANY nations. You think Ezekiel admitted his prophecy was wrong in Ezekiel 29:18? Ezekiel 29:18 KJV Son of man, Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon caused his army to serve a great service against Tyrus: every head was made bald, and every shoulder was peeled: yet had he no wages, nor his army, for Tyrus, for the service that he had served against it: Nebuchadrezzar succeeded. You assume because he received no wages that he failed. It was prophesied that spoil and merchandise would be taken... but by whom? THEY! Ezekiel 26:12 And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water. HE refers to Babylon. THEY refers to the nations after Babylon. Ezekiel said that riches would be spoiled. Since Nebuchadrezzar clearly did not receive Tyrus' goods, Babylon IS NOT "THEY." Alexander created a causeway to take the island city of Tyre. Just like it was prophesied: "THEY shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water." Ezekiel knew very clearly what would happen: God told him. Claim 2) Babylon had no navy. Ezekiel 26 makes mention of horses, chariots, forts, mounts, bucklers, engines of war, and axes. Babylon had no means to siege the island city. They didn't. Babylon succeeded in destroying the mainland city. Alexander succeeded in destroying the island. Do you really think Ezekiel could predict the engineering marvel of Alexander's causeway? No, God told him. The prophesy came to pass exactly as it was prophesied. Turn to Jesus Christ. Repent and trust in Christ for remission of sins. Judgment day is coming. If God gives you justice, you will end up in the lake of fire. Jesus Christ came so that wouldn't have to happen.

@DigitalHammurabi

Жыл бұрын

Oof. Please just pick up a commentary.

@frankiehouse2364

Жыл бұрын

@@DigitalHammurabi Ezekiel 26:3 KJV Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up. Ezekiel 26:7 KJV For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people. Ezekiel 26:3 MANY NATIONS. rab·bîm Ezekiel 26:7 MUCH PEOPLE rāḇ These aren't the same as you claim. The Bible is infalliable. Your argument against Ezekiel's prophecy is nullified. Seek for God and He will reveal Himself to you. Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

@DigitalHammurabi

Жыл бұрын

@@frankiehouse2364 Commentary

You still remind me of the actor who played Modok in the latest Ant Man film!

I genuinely wonder how literalists read Eze 26:14 in light of their ability to pull up Tyre/Ushu up on a satellite map and pick out dozens of coffee shops, grocery stores, etc. Maybe like flat earthers they think NASA is in on the anti-Bible conspiracy.

@Fassnight

9 ай бұрын

If China destroys Chicago and rebuilds a new city on the same place and calls it Chicago, but it doesnt look like the old Chicago and no one who lives there is from the old Chicago, is it still really Chicago? Same name, different city

If I was god and I wanted to prove that I really was speaking to Ezekiel, I would 1. Talk to people other than Ezekiel. Like, I'd just talk to everyone instead of choosing random people from thousands of years ago 2. Give clear, definite, precise prophecies that could not be questioned or exegized.

@MichaelAChristian1

2 жыл бұрын

Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved! Tyre was destroyed and thrown into sea. Stop living in denial.

@lostfan5054

2 жыл бұрын

@@MichaelAChristian1 God/Jesus can talk to me whenever he wishes. I'm here when he's ready. So far, he has chosen to remain silent. Which means he either doesn't exist or he doesn't want me to know he exists.

@MichaelAChristian1

2 жыл бұрын

@@lostfan5054 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:"- Hebrews chapter 1 verses 1 to 3. We beseech you in Christ's stead BE YE RECONCILED TO GOD! Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be SAVED! Who hath ears to hear LET HIM HEAR!

@lostfan5054

2 жыл бұрын

@@MichaelAChristian1 How do you know any of that is true?

@MichaelAChristian1

2 жыл бұрын

@@lostfan5054 Jesus Chirst is the truth. Never man spake like this man. Jesus Christ is the Only Saviour! There is no greater love than this that a man lay down his life for his friends but while we were Enemies Christ died for us. We love HIM because HE first loved us. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."- 2 Peter chapter 1 verses 16 to 21.

These comments are a fine example of; the blind leading the blind 🦯🦯

First, I would recommend you begin by explaining exactly what this prophecy is in Ezekiel 26 and how you believe that it has not been fulfilled. Second, I don't think I would focus just on Mr. Winger's statements in order to argue for the so-called failed prophecy. It is not sufficient to successfully counter only his arguments in order to show a failed prophecy. The biggest problem with your first argument is that Ezekiel 26 begins by God saying he will bring many nations against Tyre: "They will destroy the walls of Tyre and bring down her towers...She will become plunder for the nations". It is after this that God refers specifically to Nebuchadnezzar coming from the north against Tyre and explains what Nebuchadnezzar will do to the settlements on the mainland. Then it returns to using the plural when it says "they" will plunder your (Tyre's) wealth and loot your merchandise". The section ends by God declaring, "I will put an end to your noisy songs...I will make you a bare rock". There is nothing in this section that has not come to pass, as described. Does it say that Nebuchadnezzar would make Tyre a bare rock or that God would? Doesn't God say that he would be the one to make Tyre a desolate city? The comparison to Jeremiah 20 doesn't work very well because it was written by another author, and your lack of citation of any scholar who has presented this argument is conspicuous. I think you also claimed that it wouldn't make sense for Ushu to supply the island fortress, which doesn't make much sense because Nebuchadnezzar had no navy while Tyre possessed the Phoenician navy. It also makes no sense that Ezekiel would refer to the noise of warhorses, wagons and chariots when describing the attack on an island fortress since these are all devices used for land battle (the mainland). You also made the claim that the mainland was always referred to as Ushu, and somehow because the text refers to the mainland without using the name Ushu that it's somehow not referring to the mainland settlements but must be referring to the island fortress.

@DigitalHammurabi

Жыл бұрын

Please read the entire chapter dedicated to the issue in The Atheist Handbook to the Old Testament, Volume One. www.amazon.com/Atheist-Handbook-Old-Testament/dp/B098KLVR2K/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=CS65VNOF6AXM&keywords=joshua+bowen&qid=1680653575&sprefix=joshua+bow%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-3

25 people who take the bible literally didn't like this video :D Great informative video. Thanks for taking the time and effort to make.

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

4 жыл бұрын

read Ezekiel 29:18-19 his argument is destroyed and I've confronted him with this and he wont take this video down.

@harryedwards4080

3 жыл бұрын

@@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326 Someone needs to take all your spam down. How many times have you pasted that same reply now. If you aren't mature enough to respect the comments section here on youtube then you clearly shouldn't be using it.

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

3 жыл бұрын

@@harryedwards4080 Not until he takes this video down. Ive proved him that this whole theory is wrong with a bible verse and he still refuses to take this video and he himself admitted to me the case is closed, but this liar cares more about his video traffic to his channel than telling people the truth. He didnt even make a follow up video about it saying how he was wrong. A scholar with a phd and he cant even read a few pages forward in the bible to find out the truth. This is his most popular video on his channel and it brings to much traffic. I love how Josh admits on the comments the argument is closed but people still continue to attack me lol.

@rc7625

3 жыл бұрын

@@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326 What a pathetic clown you are. Get a life, troll.

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

3 жыл бұрын

@digitalhamurabi why don’t you make a follow up video and admit you’re wrong.

If the prophecy had actually been fulfilled, Winger would not have needed 40 minutes to show it.

@DavidHod

Жыл бұрын

Not very strong argument :) long prophecy needs long explenation, by the way all of his videos are that long :)

@michaelsommers2356

Жыл бұрын

@@DavidHod "Nebby will take Tyre" is not a long prophecy, and to show that it was fulfilled you just have to say (truthfully), "In _X_ BCE Nebby took Tyre." The videos are long, or at least this one is, because Nebby did not take Tyre, and it takes a lot of work to try to show that the prophecy was fulfilled anyway.

@codyalexander3290

Жыл бұрын

The tyre prophecy was just fulfilled by the pope

@michaelsommers2356

Жыл бұрын

@@codyalexander3290 The pope just leveled Tyre?

@codyalexander3290

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelsommers2356 NKJV) 5 Now it shall come to pass in that day that Tyre will be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king. At the end of seventy years it will happen to Tyre as in the song of the harlot: 16 “Take a harp, go about the city, You forgotten harlot; Make sweet melody, sing many songs, That you may be remembered.” 17 And it shall be, at the end of seventy years, that the LORD will deal with Tyre. She will return to her hire, and commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world on the face of the earth. 18 Her gain and her pay will be set apart for the LORD; it will not be treasured nor laid up, for her gain will be for those who dwell before the LORD, to eat sufficiently, and for fine clothing. Okay. So pope pius died in 1878. 70 years from the days of one king (the death of the pope) is 1948 the creation of Israel. 70 years from the 1948 is 2018. Todays pope. In that year he spearheaded the Abrahamic family house. As in scripture you can see it’s as if the intentions are Good however they aren’t holy. The pope claims we are all children of God. This creation is a disgrace before God.

my friend, ancient Tyre was (according to Josephus) about thirty kms south of "new tyre" the ancient city was destroyed by Babylon king Nebuchadnezzar... and Alexander the great threw the old city into the sea creating a causeway Winger is correct, nations came like waves of the sea

@DigitalHammurabi

2 жыл бұрын

🤦🏼

@slipstream4572

2 жыл бұрын

this is how biblical prophecy works, often it hinges on a future fulfilment... King Neb destroyed the city, torched it, but left empty handed... Many others try to loot the "New Tyre" island, finally Alexander the G takes the ancient city, throws it into the sea, creating a causeway and plunders it with help from a naval army of nations... God could have not been more specific so that every detail was fulfilled by many Kings over many decades... it proves the bible is written by God himself

@slipstream4572

2 жыл бұрын

therefore thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Tyre, and will bring up many nations against you, as the sea brings up its waves. Ezekiel 26:3 emphases "many nations" like "waves of the sea" (waves of the sea means more the one)

@DigitalHammurabi

2 жыл бұрын

@@slipstream4572 Cool story bro.

@slipstream4572

2 жыл бұрын

Digital Hammurabi Josephus obviously had access in his time to the Phoenician annals, and other writings that we do not have today... but research what he wrote two thousands years ago, because he has the pieces to the puzzle you are missing my friend!

Tyre, also known as Kittim, Tyrus and now Cyprus. Not many people know that when Tyre is mentioned in the bible it talks about Cyprus. Monika

@akragas4394

Жыл бұрын

doesn't the Bible refer to Cyprus as Kittim ?

When Xerxes tried to conquer hellenic greece his army contained contingents from almost 40 vassal nations marching with the Persians... Babylon ruled a similar extensive empire, so even if they just had 12 vassals, many nations would still be nothing but justified. And that is just basic history, not in depth study of the times and circumstances. I loathe that sleight of hand attitude exposed by "arguments" like these.

The anticipation is killing me

@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326

4 жыл бұрын

read Ezekiel 29:18-19 his argument is destroyed and I've confronted him with this and he wont take this video down.

@warriorxd2701

Жыл бұрын

@@benaiahtyndalewyatt6326 Your argument is destroyed since Nebuchadnezzar failed conquering Egypt, so another failed prophecy in the Bible

OK. Before we call others false, may be one of us should prophecy what would happen to a nation next year. It is easier to point the wrongs of others than our own inadequacies especially on subjects we don't have full knowledge. We can ask questions but not outright condemn. Ezekiel claimed God told him, it would be right to ask God at least if not God we should ask Ezekiel. Nobody has full knowledge of history best still spiritual matters.