Alternate Title: "Johnny Bills and Johnny Sins build a staircase"

@Stan_the_Belgian

6 ай бұрын

Like that😂

@MrGedget

6 ай бұрын

69 likes right now

@frittehd69

6 ай бұрын

What are you doing, *step*bro?

@_JamesBrown

6 ай бұрын

I didn't know my dentist was woodworker too

@campbellrocksagain

6 ай бұрын

🍆

I was a stairbuilder for over 20 years. I stopped when I came into the office to take over the business from the owner. Just vetting myself a little, there. 😊 For never building a stair, this was quite well done! There are a few problems, a couple of which are fairly serious, but really it’s pretty amazing that it turned out as well as it did. Stairbuilding is one of the most difficult trades to learn and excel at, so you should be proud! The changes I am suggesting are to safety and structural integrity, and’s aren’t facile nitpicking. The changes I believe are necessary are as follows: 1. Attach the closed side of the treads to the studs in the wall. This is very important since you went with an open design with no risers. You aren’t just walking up that stair, you are also storing material up there that you probably will often be carrying up the stair, adding weight and stress to the treads and single stringer. So, this is an important, necessary addition. This is done fairly easy (and could still be done easily retrofitting). This is done by using a piece of 1/4” angle iron (or channeled) metal stock with a 90 degree bend at the closed end of the tread. The stock should be 4-5 inches wide and inlaid into the tread with a dado cut (using your table saw or router, whatever) lengthwise about 3” from the nose of the tread and an additional, deeper dado for the angle portion of the metal stock. The stock should have a 90 degree bend at the closed end and be 6” in length to attach to the framing, or added blocking in the wall. You can dado the tread and hide the metal support stock by having it countersunk by a 1/4” or 1/2” and then covering it with a 1/4” or 1/2” piece of the tread material inlaid. Then, on the closed end, you can cut out the drywall and attach the 90 degree end to the stud (or blocking you attach to the framing). Most of the time we used C channeled metal stock for additional support instead of angle iron. Once you attach it to the tread and the blocking in the wall, the stair will fex very little. A little bit of flexing on a circular stair is okay, but not for a open, straight stair of your design, which is a sign of structural issues. The treads will eventually pull out from the stringer, or the single stringer will continue to torsion until the structural integrity of the stringer is compromised beyond safe usage. A jerry-rigged solution that might suffice would be to use angle iron stock on the closed side, attached to the end of the tread and then secured to a stud or blocking you add in the wall. There are several ways you could do it, even mortising the stock into the closed end of the tread and attaching it to a stud or blocking. You need to do something, though, because you can do it now and it will be fairly simple, but if you wait until it starts to fail, your options disappear quickly. 2. The second issue is the attachment to the header (joist) under the landing of the 2nd floor. You have a ton of stress concentrated on a very small area. This will eventually sag the header and landing, and tear out or destroy the header, and that will be a difficult repair. Your stair is going to flex and tear out or compromise at that header attachment point pretty quickly ( I’m betting less than 5-10 years). You can accomplish this by adding another layer of 2x material behind the header (sandwiched) and then attach 1/4” angle iron to each side of your stringer, flush with the header, and then use all-thread through the header and another joist behind it to attack the angle iron (and stringer) to the header. You thread the all-thread through holes in the header and joist behind it, adding washers and nuts as you bring it into the header and joist. Then, tighten the nuts to both sides of the header and (at least) one joist behind it, and the angle iron. I would then add another piece of 2x material to the face of the header on each side of your stringer. This hides the angle iron and adds additional support to the sides of the stringer at the attachment point to the header. These additions are important and not difficult to accomplish. If you don’t do these, I think it will fail within 5-10 years, or it will start flexing so much as to be unsafe to ascend. I know it sucks when so-called “experts” chime in and nitpick everything you do. I like your channel and especially the spirit and can-do attitude you have. I learned a lot in my trade just by doing it. I built a lot of tools and jigs that old stairbuilders told me wouldn’t work or weren’t necessary, that then later they copied them or asked me to build one for them. So, I get the frustration you have with people like that. Sometimes, though, the “experts” are right, and this is especially poignant when safety is involved. I’m not talking into my hat, here, the changes I suggest (and there are other ways to accomplish what I suggested) are important. Don’t take my word for it, ask a local stairbuilder to give it a look-see and hear what he has to say. This was a really great build for never building a stair. Stairbuilding has a vicious learning curve, one that almost broke me in my first year in the trade. So, you should be proud of what you did. There are a couple of safety issues that need to be addressed, but overall you did a really great job! Keep up the good work and thanks for showing the world that hard work and a commitment to quality can make dreams come true!

@bradbloch1546

5 ай бұрын

Straight up great comment from start to finish on addressing the “ elephant in the staircase”. Having done many like this with the stringer being fabricated steel…..your 100% on point.😊

@yupp9393

5 ай бұрын

27:06 yeah. I thought the same, then seeing the stairs shift a bit side to side as he wipes it down here made me think he needs it mounted to the studs. And the bouncing at the end lmaooo

@evandarp

5 ай бұрын

I like that this is a single tree. Maybe some structural reinforcement of the header board would be good. Everything has some deflection. Id be very happy with these stairs with a little flex

@Lesardah

5 ай бұрын

EXCELLENT advice. Worth reading and internalizing.

@waynenort2581

5 ай бұрын

I'd screw an 8 to 10mm piece of spring steel plate at full length to the back of the centre beam to give a bit more bounce in your step.. think about it. 😁

that was classic when you blurred everything out and then said look at how beautiful all the plugs came out.haha hehe awesome video

Lost my husband recently and still have lots of work to do for my house, found your site and am so amazed! I am binge watching to distract myself and it’s all beautiful!

Johnny Build- I couldn’t help but notice, after you bolted the beam in place you didn’t say “that’s not going anywhere”. This is really the only safe measure to insure it doesn’t go anywhere! 😃

@queenbee3647

6 ай бұрын

Ya think?

@Jenndar

6 ай бұрын

@@queenbee3647 think about it

@jetstream01

5 ай бұрын

That's why the staircase has a bit of movement instead of being totally stiff like it should be

@bastokrepublic

5 ай бұрын

"That ain't goin' nowhere" will also suffice.

@slowpoke6743

5 ай бұрын

It's hilarious how unskilled all of you are in this thread. Every decent craftsman understands that giving your work a slap before saying "that ain't goin nowhere!" is what triggers the spell.

Cam, awesome staircase, looks beautiful. I'll preface this with "I'm not a structural engineer" but I think you should consider beefing up the header joist thing. Your old stair singers were mounted to the edges of the header therefore the header wasn't doing much other than being a riser. Your new stairs are mounted in the middle. Meaning that single joist is now supporting the full load.

@Rasmus3377

6 ай бұрын

Think about it!

@jonerwood2314

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely correct. That header should be triple!

@MrFish1968

6 ай бұрын

@@jonerwood2314 you could probably get around having to do that by transferring some of the load to the floor using a beam from the floor to the underneath of the 5th or 6th step, make it fancy and make feature out of it.

@Tony_Chalmers

6 ай бұрын

Watching this thing flex under his weight while he was applying the m3 nano at the end gave me the willies. Top is held in by 2 bolts and 2 wood screws, and bottom is held to the concrete with two lags with an uneven coating under it letting it just rock back and forth. Both attachments need to be beefed up a ton, and the joist needs to either be beefed up, or a column added under the top stair to take the load off of it. Also not a structural engineer, but I've built a few staircases in my time. EDIT: I just saw the last little bit of the video. That joist is clearly flexing on every step. If it doesn't get beefed up it will eventually break and drop back; but I'm still not a structural engineer so I don't know how long that'll last without a fix.

@christopherbedford9897

6 ай бұрын

...the full load, plus a rotational / torque component that will put an alternating full weight load on single bolt at a time. Sorta.

Johnny Builds The only thing I could think of at the end when Scott asked "is it supposed to bounce" was "no, no it is not" . I always find your videos informative and entertaining, and like how you explain your thought processes. Thank you for making more.

JohnnyBuild And you made tables for a Make-a-Wish charity! That's so awesome. My wife was a wish manager (pretty much a frickin Genie) there for years. One of the best organizations that does some of the most beautiful charity work. And I can speak from first hand knowledge just some of the best humans in the world work there.

Impressed structural engineer here. It's probably stronger than it needs to be for concentric loading (walking up/down the middle of the stairs) but you'll be glad you used that massive piece of DF for torsional stiffness whenever you step out near the edges of the treads. I usually do these out of tube steel for that reason. Think about it. I might have beefed up the top and bottom connections though so keep an eye on it in case they loosen up over time, especially the bottom. But hey, no stamp no problem. Love your work man! From a fellow Cam.

@joeyelton407

6 ай бұрын

From another structural engineer, I had the same comment.....timber pieces are 'overkill', connections are suspect.......I've done one with a tube steel stringer and broke steel sheet treads.

@brandonlure2738

6 ай бұрын

Mechanical engineer here. Only comment I had was the same… should have beefed up those connecting plates. But at the end of the day… think about it

@maplebones

6 ай бұрын

You probably would use tube steel for a diving board. We don't want to take a chance with flexing now, do we. How about scaffold planking ? 6" WF ?

@cambrochu638

6 ай бұрын

When a client pays thousands of dollars for the design of their custom stairs they do not want them to deflect noticeably when someone walks on them. That said, a tube steel diving board sounds pretty cool.

@henrypeisch5289

6 ай бұрын

Sister the joist and add solid bridging to the next one over. Pull the joist hanger, sister the headers both ends. Install the proper joist hangers (double or triple) depending on the headers. Next one you do, extend the solid center notched stringer at top rise (this tread notch will be larger) so pressure blocks can be installed at the header - add this pressure block thickness to the overall stringer length. Pressure blocks will eliminate twist where the top of your stringer meets the header.

Johnny Builds. The last "think about it" was awesome! Loved the ASMR of chiseling the plugs and appreciated the close ups so we could admire their beauty! 😄 Can't wait to see what kind of handrail you add - so many possibilities!

@bill944

6 ай бұрын

He'll probably install the "inviso" hand rail. They're known as the safety standard, think about it.

@dedede9664

6 ай бұрын

bouncing staircases are not meant to have any handrails. think about it.

Johnny Builds is the man! Always there to add some extra hands. Even though he won't be collecting stacks of bands (free work), the work he does is never bland. Yes Johnny was right!!!!!!! Refinish those steps, and always listen to Johnny Builds.

Johnny Builds was right, pure was the move. Glad to say the staircase still came out great. Good work on the plugs and definitely over engineered!

As a carpenter who has built dozens of staircases and done a fair amount of timber framing, you've taken on the two Everests of most residential carpenters' existence! Other than Instrument, and Furniture making, these are the things that most House Carpenters will consider the pinnacle of finish carpentry. Neither of these types of projects are easy, and mistakes are extremely expensive. You guys did an amazing job on this one, especially for first timers!!

@morourke2561

5 ай бұрын

As a joiner I second this motion, although just to be awkward for assembly I would change the screws plan, to a couple of coach bolts from the back of the stringer

@SandroMoiron

5 ай бұрын

​@morourke2561 what a cool idea.

@morourke2561

5 ай бұрын

@@SandroMoiron Glad you like it, a dovetail on the stringer would be even better, with a stopped socket on the bottom of the threads 😉 but now we're probably getting carried away.

@steves835

5 ай бұрын

​@@morourke2561dovetail stringers would have made it completely next level, buuuut it also would've doubled the timeline lol

@morourke2561

5 ай бұрын

@@steves835 💯 Quality takes time, this I can't deny, maybe not double though, much of it could be achieved with a router on the stringer cuts and finished with a combination of tracksaw and chisel work, then completely achievable with a router ran in a simple jig for each thread.

Johnny Builds and Blacktail are my two favorite woodworking channels. You're both entertaining and talented.

@jonny555ive

6 ай бұрын

100% ABSOLUTELY AGREE

@DarkRRider

6 ай бұрын

man! ......think'bout it!?

@narsakucanada154

6 ай бұрын

A few years ago I repented to God then begged for help, "I was until then an Atheist." I then had a dream of Jesus coming before God and he spoke of the Tabernacle in perfect context, "A word I didn't know existed.", and what I felt from Jesus when I held him was unlike anything I've ever felt before - A lifetime of Love every second - It brought me to sobbing and it changed my life, forever. I've had Many experiences since, "Several witnessed", one was seeing a bright orb of light pass across my face in the dark, hours before a major surgery the second I gave up in my heart. Know that God and Jesus ARE real and that they Love us deeply. Let go of your hatred and Imagine yourself holding the people who've hurt you. Tell them you Love them. Always have hope, I believe that prayer, following God's laws & Love is the answer, and through that, Truly becoming humble, merciful, welcoming, giving, gentle, respectful, compassionate, patient, kind and forgiving, To All.

@haijai2000

6 ай бұрын

@@narsakucanada154 w mans

@scottcountryman6090

6 ай бұрын

Seems like an interesting place to post that sentiment

Jonny Builds -'Think about it' is my new favourite sentence 😂😅

As a retired lumber salesman my personal record was a 2x8x24 with a Toyota Tacoma. All was fun and games till the end of the 2x8 hit my windshield. #lumbersalesmanlife😮.

I think black plugs matching the stringer would have been a nice contrast, and might also serve as a low key visual aid, kind of like how different colored baseboards help separate walls from floors in your brain.

@equal___

6 ай бұрын

wait yeah, I like that. Almost industrial vibes

@nancylynch6045

6 ай бұрын

Great idea!

@VinayVarsani

6 ай бұрын

If there's something that might not look nice, make it a purposeful feature 👍🏾 woodworking 101

@imvarda

6 ай бұрын

Probably too late now but I support this idea.

@TSIRKLAND

5 ай бұрын

There is something to be said for the idea of, "If you can't hide it, don't try to; make it a feature."

I have built quite a few staircases over the years using concrete in situ, steel, and wood in various combinations. Even the really bulky I-Strings have a bit of give and flex, particularly on hot days.The only ones that don't have any flex are the ones attached to the walls around it via a wall string That goes for overhang concrete stairs aswell. The weakest point on stairs, obviously, normally, is where the riser and tread meet. Watching the video I was wondering whether you were going to inlay any steel under the string. Since this is your own staircase; If at any point the flex and give becomes too much, just add a metal plate, cut exactly like the string shape on a side view, to the wall side out of sight. Kind of laminating steel to wood. This is the same way old oak/cedar beams are strengthened. In my unprofessional opinion, you did a fantastic job. My only real concern is whether the floor joist at the top can handle the weight of the stairs. Having run into a problem on one that I did, I added more timber between 3 joists so that the staircase does not bend the joist where the string is fixed to. I don't really know what the structure looks like there and watched this video on my small phone screen.

@carpenter1138

6 ай бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking as I was watching -" inlay a steel backbone". When you are walking on it it will flex (you won't feel it at that thickness but it's doing it). The stress points are like a zipper pattern in the string focussed on the inside of each of the 90 deg cuts. Each of those points will be greater or lesser than the one next to it radiating out from the center of the string to both ends in a hour glass pattern. When your body weight gets more or less to the center as you walk it will be the time of greatest stress which will be focused on the upper and lower most 90 degree inside cuts. Which gain a little strength back depending on how you attach at each end (so the ones next ot those becime the next weakest points.). If you attach a backbone this can also be tied to the ground and upper joist(like a suspension bridge to give a little additional support)

@JirafaBo

6 ай бұрын

@@carpenter1138 so you mean the weakest point is at the thinnest point of the stringer and the middle of the span?

@d9dga

6 ай бұрын

I think this is the most in-depth KZread comment I've ever read.... Kudos

@lenturtle7954

6 ай бұрын

Get an engineer to check it out Try not to hire one whose bridges or dams have already failed 😂

@raidadave7840

6 ай бұрын

Love Blacktail Studios and Johnny Builds...great to see you guys working together.

John Builds, as an engineer it looks OK. I think the through bolts will hold the top OK, and if the plate is well attached to the wood then that is OK. The board you used looks like the size of 2-2x12's so that would be acceptable. The good thing to know is that if it fails it should crack and makes lots of noise before it does break so you will have a warning. Great to hear that the two tables sold for so very much.

@DontSmokeCrack11

6 ай бұрын

Seconded by a another engineer.

@richardconing7615

6 ай бұрын

I'd be more curious about the numbers on the individual treads, if someone were to stand on the edge thats a lot of leverage on deck screws, the rabbit joint wasn't that snug to provide much support...

@DadPerfectDesigns

6 ай бұрын

John builds: Curious what the rise and run came out to be. 7” tall and 11” tread is usually the standard. Plus I wonder if the stringer he attracted to is blocked to it’s a joining rafter. Adding some blocks between the two could help take the twist/bounce out of it. Just a thought, and personally nothing can be over engineered when it comes to your shop. Having tags on every screw, now that is over kill. Also I personally like the contrast of the two colors.

@kindlin

5 ай бұрын

@@richardconing7615 Big pieces of lumber are fine in torsion, the span isn't that long, and the threads themselves are clearly solid AF. I am more concerned, as everyone else is mentioning, that the connections top and bottom could use some beefing up.

I cannot properly explain how much I love the combination of honest reactions, friendly banter, snarky jokes, and real life applicable skills and advice. Everything from camera man/editor interactions to guests on the channel, its incredibly wholesome and enjoyable to watch. Fucking love your guy's work.

Love the comment about appreciating real laborers, I laid a 12x10 foundation for my shed. I was dead tired and my back was sore for days, makes you appreciate the people who do it 8 hours a day 5 days a week. I wouldn't be able to do it .

The 2 best Resin/Woodworkers by a long shot on any platform.pleasure to watch....Think about it..:)

Cool project. As far as the plugs are concerned, I would've seriously considered a contrasting color. A lesson learned from a designer that I worked with, he said if you can't make it perfect, make it intentionally imperfect. There's a 'design term' for this but I don't know what it is. Love ALL of your videos. Keep them coming.

@johnholloway691

6 ай бұрын

Maybe that design term is "wabi sabi"? "Wabi-sabi nurtures all that is authentic by acknowledging three simple realities: nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect." Richard Powell

@tobiasvanoudheusden8862

6 ай бұрын

I believe you're talking about Wabi Sabi. Also I agree, a darker color would've looked great

Johnny Builds; Hey Cam, love the content, love this build, and I think you made the right choice on the finish. As an engineer, the only comment I would make technically would be to consider using slots on your floor tie plate. That really is just a safeguard against the cement floor and the stringer moving at different rates seasonally or as the timber cures. It would still be constrained in 2 degrees of freedom vertically and side to side you would just have slots going forward along the axis of the stairs. I might be a little paranoid. Just think about it.

@reilytong3954

6 ай бұрын

i think another thing to note would be to use, chemset epoxy bolts. we use them alot in in aus for column baseplates etc

@nolansmith8572

6 ай бұрын

@@reilytong3954 Yes; something like that anchored into the floor, a Keensert or the masonry equivalent would be great.

@zoox101

6 ай бұрын

at 26:09 you can slow it down a bit and see it move as he walks, better than the end I think. how big a deal is it? It freaks me out a little, as a non-engineer

@nolansmith8572

6 ай бұрын

@@zoox101 Like I said, I might just be paranoid. Or a perfectionist. The stringer is so stout and if we assume the concrete is properly poured and cured... Then honestly the weak link might be the fastener... Which would probably shear off before the stringer would crack. I'm reality the worst case scenario is probably just things bend up a bit during some seasons... Like a door getting stuck a bit when it's humid outside. Probably nothing to worry about.

Nice build!! If you haven't done so already, I'd try extending out the attachment points at the top and bottom to be as wide as the stair steps. That way it'll spread out the deflection at the ends and hopefully reduce some of the twisting shown when you walk up and down

Johnny Builds, you don't have to regret your choice. I like the invisible one more because of the greater contrast. Like white cars with black accents look great 👌

Johnny Builds was a great addition to this video. You were funnier than usual, and that is one of the things I love about your videos-snarky humor. I also love fast motion on the cutting, sawing, chiseling, tapping, and so forth-loved it! The stairs are very cool 😎 thank you for recording the build , so we can all enjoy it!

@idontthinkso666

6 ай бұрын

I will second the "funnier than usual" assessment. Think about it!

I built stairs in Canada for 20 years. Some easy many very difficult. You brought back a lot of great memories. Love your content, and the dialogue. Your channel is great!

Johnny build's, beautiful, bouncing, staircase... I think I may do this one. 🤔 Great channel, I'll be sure to give his a shot too.

I like the lighter finish you chose - I think it does make a better contrast to the black than the pure finish does. The pure/natural was too orange, for my liking. At most, maybe something in the middle, to dull down the orange, but look slightly more natural might be ideal. But, if it's a choice between one or the other, I think the one you chose was the way to go!

Johnny builds......love it. It's too bad the stairs aren't where more people will see them daily but I guess us woodworking fans will see them in future videos. Nice job!!

Your production values just keep improving. I build solid body electric guitars but enjoy all kinds of "maker" videos. You're probably my favorite of the woodworker vlogs. Thanks for your hard work and here's to chasing excellence in what we do!

@terenceyuen4424

6 ай бұрын

Give Shoyan Japanese Carpenter a follow 👍

I think both finishes (light and darker) on the stairs look great. The lighter one, not sure what to call these finishes, looks Scandinavian. The darker one has a warmer, more earthy tone, and I might have been my first choice. Both look great! I don't usually sit through these long form shop videos, but yours are always so interesting and I'm amazed how you basically taught yourself I think? Really high end work work, the tables and everything, wish I could afford lol.

Johnny Bills is an excellent helper. I loved the finish you put on the stairs.

The Shelter Institute and other timber framers typically use green timbers. That's why the chisel work looks so nice because the wood is much softer and less brittle being wet still. Keep up the great work.

@williamboquist4090

5 ай бұрын

That's true. You can improve your ability to pare dry wood with a chisel or slick if you dab a little bit of linseed oil and turpentine blend on it a few minutes before you start.

@jswoodproducts8575

5 ай бұрын

@williamboquist4090 that's sounds like the tip of the day

Johnny build: I did think about it, and this was big fun. I do prefer the "Invisible"--it gave the staircase a more refined look. The "pure" would look too 1980s. Great job! Fun to see a project with big wood.

@Ebb_and_Flow

6 ай бұрын

think about it

@gardengatesopen

6 ай бұрын

I thought about it. And I agree, the "Pure" finish is MUCH too yellow, no matter what decade you're in. Plus, it blends so well with that gorgeous OG rail.

@vincedibona4687

6 ай бұрын

The “invisible” finish is too Ikea. Think about it.

@gardengatesopen

6 ай бұрын

@@vincedibona4687 Now that you mention Ikea, yes, I can see the link. However, since I prefer to live outside the realm of Ikea, luckily for me, I did not have that initial thought. Besides, if the only 2 choices are those given in this video, I still like the one chosen best. The other is too orangy-yellow for my taste.

Johnny builds! So fun to watch the competitive spirit of this project unfold but I think you were right with the color of the stairs I love the near-white color against the black and I think it fits better with the surroundings!!

I love the "think about it" Im gonna start doing that

I think you used the right "invisible" finish for the steps, it's beautiful. I goes better with the black than the other color you were debating on using (it looked yellow actually).

@hadensnodgrass3472

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely agree. The dark and light aesthetic really brings a modern feel to it. The only thing I would have changed is that the plugs should have been accents with a darker stain or maybe a brass inlay. It would have continued the modern feel. 😊

@johnbrammeld

5 ай бұрын

Think About it 🤔

@cenortheast799

5 ай бұрын

Agree. It felt fresh! And a little 1980s 😁

@credaaaooo824

5 ай бұрын

@@hadensnodgrass3472 i like the brass inlay idea. it would still loook good, but you know IT'S THERE FOR A REASON, unlike a wood plug just trying to blend in

I like the color you have! Beautiful work!!!

I think I prefer the invisible finish for this project. I typically prefer darker finishes, but the pure coat didn't have a strong enough contrast against the black for my tastes

@mikemike0000

5 ай бұрын

That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw the side by side. The invisible is gorgeous!

@peterbaruxis2511

5 ай бұрын

"think about it"

@Shrimp_Insurance

5 ай бұрын

I think the invisible finish on the beam and then the darker finish on the stairs would've been nice, or vice versa... I guess what I'm saying is I'm not the biggest fan of the black

@williambrooke6266

4 ай бұрын

Of the two choices you show, the invisible finish is far, far better looking than the other (yellow/orange tint). Love, love, love your channel, MOSTLY because of your amazing attitude with everything you do. After watching, I want to meet you and become a friend. Positive people make my day, no matter how we came in contact. You are great.

Brother those are some beautiful stairs. The natural color is 100% better. Here’s a challenge for you, it will reward you but it will be expensive. Build yourself/family/wife a Hinoki wood bath!

I built a timber staircase like this in my boat about 6 years ago. It’s been awesome. It took a couple tries and a lot of head scratching without any computer designs, but I’ve loved it! Good job!

As a structural engineer with 35 years experience, I can tell you that stairs are a real danger area for us designers. The strength might be fine, but people hate any deflection in stairs. For any unusual stairs, we would analyse them to death before sending them to the shop. In the case of your stairs, I wonder what the torsional twist deflection would be if you walked towards the edge of a tread. Great video by the way, thoroughly enjoyed it and have subscribed.

Johnny builds. This staircase takes me back to my childhood. My neighbor and his brother built 4 homes together. The one I remember most had a floating staircase like this, only difference being the treads were significantly thinner. Always mesmerized me in how they stayed afloat. They were slick as snot and as kids we always crashed down them with our sock feet. He didn’t have nano finish but it was probably Turtle Wax back in the 80’s!

Fun fact for Scott since he is learning 3d! I know nothing about woodworking, but I'm a product design student and there is one very useful tool for "engineering safety" you can use to test a virtual 3d model. On Fusion360 there is a simulation space you can put your model in, apply the mechanical properties of your material, say which faces will be securely attached, and you can simulate how any force (from any direction, on one or more of the "faces") will put a strain on your model. It's a bit tricky with wood since the strenght and flex modules depend on the species and grain direction, but you can make a custom material description to enter specific data... and maybe err on the weaker side to be sure. Of course as you said the thickness here should make up for most of these concerns, and a commenter pointed out all the specific concerns he had for the wooden stairs that are very unique to the trade. Simulation tool of course will not account for wood shifting or reacting to prolongued use, but these are things that you as a woodworker learn to navigate with experience. I still think it's a fun tool to try out for Scott, and it could come in handy if you decide to do "thinner" projects like the tables you just sold, or even something not very balanced and experimental! As a student who never gets a chance to work with actual materials, I really appreciate seeing all the particular solutions for woodworking problems that never come up in a virtual model. Great work!!

I built one of these from reclaimed wood from a 100 year old grain mill. In my situation I had to do a 90 deg turn at the bottom. I did run my treads into the wall and secured them with 12” lags through the re-enforced wall. All staircases I have seen wave started to work after a while, mine is still tight after 10 years. I also carved a 12’ long narwhal tusk as a hand rail.

Absolutely love the invis finish. Right choice! The light wood tone just pairs so nicely with the black.

@W2Report

6 ай бұрын

I agree. The white on black is a nice contrast.

@asktheraccoon

6 ай бұрын

agree as well.. for the shop. It's less distracting visually. Had this been in a home... depends on other furnitures around..

I’m a mechanical engineer and I’m impressed 😂. Was a little worried when I first saw the extent of that cracking, but you seemed to handle that well with the bow ties . Nice work guys!

@JustSayN2O

6 ай бұрын

The bow ties are only what, 1/2" deep. The cracks likely propagate through most of the timber. Cam better throw a few mattresses below the staircase. Just sayin

@henrypeisch5289

6 ай бұрын

⁠@@JustSayN2Oalthough it looks like a concern, these are not cracks but normal checking. Checking does not significantly affect the structural properties of the timber. In fact, the bow ties are unnecessary (structurally speaking) although they do look nice. If the stringer was cracked, then it’s a different story. So, the mattress can stay in the bedroom.

@noahmarosok8168

5 ай бұрын

@@henrypeisch5289 was in the middle of typing that... the wood has been drying for 3-4 years checking is completely normal and doesn't affect integrity of the beam even though it looks like its unsafe lol

@henrypeisch5289

5 ай бұрын

@@noahmarosok8168 Cam does flawless work from what I have seen. Almost neurotically flawless. When he screws up, he owns it with a charming and self-deprecating humility that is hard to bash afterwards. So, I can see how some who watch often probably have been just lying in wait for something to jump all over. Triggered by the checking in the Douglas fir I guess. I suppose it’s understandable. Think about it.

I think the best thing about this whole build is how much fun the both of you are having. 👌🏿

JohnnyBuild - I like you because you're very skilled, but you're not so skilled that you aren't also learning as you do it. That's a great thing for some one who is also learning, albeit way further behind. This is a great build, and your humble demeanor narrates it so well. Subscribed and looking forward to watching much more!

Johnny Builds - an excellent collab, and I love the end results! As much as the 'Pure' color looks good in a general sense, I think the paler steps fit in with the rest of the workshop better. Generally, the Pure would be better, but context is king for any kind of decoration or design work.

Johnny Builds - It's difficult to see how you mounted it, but I think you might've created a stress concentration at the top of the staircase where it joins to the wall stud. The original staircase spread the load over two points that were connected to two more parallel structural studs. Over time, that might weaken your mount structure, but you can reinforce the other side with some truss beams or a structural stud as a precaution (at least this way you don't have to unscrew everything). You've also got torque about the middle screws when you step on the edge of the stairs whereas they were simply supported at the edges beforehand, so try to step in the middle.

@bobos245

5 ай бұрын

He needed steel spines on everything. Would have been fairly easy to inlay too.

@natanvanhelden385

5 ай бұрын

Think about it

JOHNNY BUILD Johnny right "Think about it" 😁

Love seeing two of my favorite wood crafters collaborating.

I was a stairbuilder in a mill in Logan, Ohio for 11 yrs. For awhile i was the only girl there. We used a router for the stringers. But i really enjoyed watching you guys build this staircase. Brings back memories and i loved working with wood. Thanks for the video. You are a master of your craft! And i like watching Johnny Builds. I watch alot of wood turning shows. Xo

I think I actually prefer the finish you picked. Maybe it's because I see wood like the second one (which is also very pretty) more often so it makes the gentler, closer to natural wood color finish feel more unique. Then again I like the look of white TVs.

@iamaduckquack

6 ай бұрын

White TVs? Sorry but that's a yikes. I kid, but seriously...

@fobiaargyst5875

6 ай бұрын

@@iamaduckquack I blame Sims 3 giving me the option.

Hey Cam, enjoyed watching you and Johnny Builds work on this project. Lots of douglas fir used here in Muskoka, Ontario for docks and timberframe facades. It was fun to see a douglas fir project. I have a kitchen island made of douglas fir 2*8. Would you consider doing a douglas for kitchen counter, island or table top project ?

Johnny Builds.....loved watching the video, and your honesty (in certain area!) I also employ the "Think about it!" logic often when building.....hopefully, well thought out projects stand up to the test of time.....Nice job, and loved the finished product....!

Protip: Turn the piece of bung wood on its side and run the band saw just short of the depth of the hole drill. All the bungs will separate in one cut. Another protip: Place a layer of painters tape over the bungs before you do the verticle cut to the bungs. They stick to the tape and make a nice 'tray' to pick the bungs from and they (generally) don't drop off. Good stuff and the staircase looks awesome!

@thechadwick22

6 ай бұрын

Johnny builds would have known to do that already! That's literally how he cut out the bowties lol

@mattosborne1366

6 ай бұрын

He did that for the bow-ties..wonder why not the plugs.. Painter tape great idea..

@hebie666

6 ай бұрын

Because its one of those "pro tips" that arent really that pro. Just popping them out and flipping it over onto the table creates a pile of plugs you can easily use your hands to grab as you would anything else on your workbench.

@Aphxphotog

6 ай бұрын

Cool story, bro. 3 seconds on the band saw versus sending a flathead into 75 holes, 75 times and picking them all up.[eye roll] There are those who think in the first order and nothing beyond. Like having a nothing sandwich forever.@@hebie666

@Aphxphotog

6 ай бұрын

LOL But he didn't when it was the same principle. Generally, pros are consistent in their craft. However, I do appreciate his honesty and willingness to share that he forgot something, or made a mistake with the chisel AND LEAVES IT IN the final edit. No one else (mostly) does that on other channels.@@thechadwick22

Johnny Builds is a great channel name. As an engineer I am a big proponent of over engineering and over sizing, especially in something like a staircase. The brackets you made seem to be a bit undersized for the job, there will be a lot of torque on them from the stringer, especially if you are carrying a heavy load while using the stairs, I would imagine that beefier brackets would eliminate the side-to-side tilting that you are getting when walking on the stairs. I really like the lighter treads versus the natural color.

I love your channel! Your voice is soothing (this keeps the dog from barking at the TV), your work is interesting and beautiful, and you don't play music (music is often depressing for me). Don't ever change a thing! Your channel is just what I've been looking for.

Cam: Johnny Build. Retired timber framer here. If you ever work with large timbers again, don't use timbers with the center of the tree in them. All that checking on your stringer that required bow ties and such results from the timber having the center of the tree in it. If you ever order timber again, specify FOHC. Stands for Free Of Heart Center. I've had a lots of problems in timber framing with heart center trees. They also tend to twist a lot. An FOHC timber might still check on you, but not nearly as much. But, overall, it's a unique and very nice stairway. 👍 Doug Eaton P.S. Saw the stair engineer's comment below and I wasn't going to say anything, but you definitely should at least have an engineer look at the connection to the header at the top of the stair way.

OH man, the high levels of satisfaction in this video lol. Popping out those triangles from the main beam and then also all those little bow ties because that cut was on point. It's truly the little things, eh? Edit: WHELP! Then there was the notches to get the stairs into the main piece of wood and getting all those little pieces out. This is lovely xD Edit 2: That black finish is SICK! That's really cool!

@BlacktailStudio

6 ай бұрын

😂 glad it worked for ya!

@JeffreyMcLain

6 ай бұрын

@@BlacktailStudio Watching KZread while home sick is the best. All of the unhinged comments!! Cheers, friend, thanks for sharing with us

I think this turned out looking really cool. The higher contrast of the really pale steps on the black beam is great; I think the natural finish would've been cool too, but the contrast wouldn't have been as strong and the contrast is what I love here.

Johnny Bills. Jacksaw is best, but it’s all about technique. It also takes a lot of time to develop the method. Apprentices used to be sawing for months before they could master it. Power tools have made the technique obsolete, but you’ll still find old joiners/carpenters that can cut a riser like that in a morning, highly accurately & without using anything other than a saw, tape & pencil. As for the build, not sure what the regs are where you’re at, but it’d be more than ok in the UK, less the requirement for a handrail & requiring a fire retardant coat of paint as it’s in a workplace. My dad was a master carpenter/joiner & he’d have given it a big thumbs up. Nice to see people still taking the time to do a nice job.

A new handrail might be a tasty addition - but I do get those artistic vibes you might be going for having an old one that’s no longer parallel 😉 Love the content as always!

@KyleKHarber

6 ай бұрын

Studies show that handrails make staircases less safe - Think about it.

@JocularJack

6 ай бұрын

You don't need a handrail if you still have feet. Think about it.

@robertpearce8394

6 ай бұрын

​@@KyleKHarberI am 76 with pins in both ankles. I have a rail om both sides of my stair case. Think about it. Plus that staircase needs a rail that is much better.

@spectrumifs

5 ай бұрын

You don't need feet if you still have a handrail. Think about it.

I can appreciate the fact that the commentary isn't just BS 'filler', but actually stuff that keeps the viewer engaged. Thats a pretty underrated skill

@dickjokesandbondo

6 ай бұрын

100% and editing and filming is actually very well done too. Every shot is different. Even if he’s showing the same piece or the same process, he uses a different camera angle at the very least. It’s very technically sound from a production standpoint and probably goes unnoticed.

Another fantastic project! One thing I heard though was you said the finish is LED cured. Isn't it really UV cured but using LED light? I started reading on it and found it interesting with all the different means of UV curing along with all the advantages of LED UV cure. I've learned so much thru you and your channel! Keep it up with or without Jonny Builds!

Damn bro! What’s your IQ? This is by far my favorite group. I’m 65. Seeing your generation discovering my Generations music fills my heart with joy. You’re gonna go far my friend. Starting now!

Johnny Builds does great work and was very kind to help you out. The lighter tread finish you chose however was spot on for contrast. It’s a clean look. Always enjoy your content, creative and professional.

You're my favourite woodworker on youtube, you're the zeppelin of woodworking

@BlacktailStudio

6 ай бұрын

😢 I’m so happy

@kevinuy399

6 ай бұрын

@@BlacktailStudio You don't think he meant like the Hindenburg?

@joakimnordberg2202

6 ай бұрын

@@kevinuy399Think about it.

@Brown_fox_47

6 ай бұрын

@@kevinuy399if you know the band Led Zeppelin they got that name because people said they “would go down like a Led Zeppelin”. And we now know that that sure wasn’t the case. Maybe he was saying that people doubted him at first but really is legendary

@mm9773

6 ай бұрын

You mean he steals other people’s ideas?

Johnny Builds….natural is the best by far

Johnny Builds - Great way to start the day, watching The Cam Show, as birthday weekend comes to a close. Saving vids to watch when I can carve out some uninterrupted free-time, feels akin to Christmas morning. Hard saving up when they come out, waiting for that special moment. All the structural comments are interesting to read. Love that friends think “f*** yeah” to weekend hangout, mine are nervous when I have new project ideas. Thank you, again, for the quality entertainment. Freaking Illinois?!?

Johnny Builds- thanks a ton for sharing this clip! Such a joy to see you having fun together. I think the invisible oil looks absolutely awesome! ...as does the whole staircase. Fantastic.

Not an engineer yet but an engineering student, I’m impressed by every project you do Cam, not just this one

@arminowo3885

6 ай бұрын

misread this as "just not this one"😭

@Lindqvist2000

6 ай бұрын

@@arminowo3885 haha same, didn't even notice before your comment

@west3Dgaming

6 ай бұрын

Check back in after you graduate

@jush471

6 ай бұрын

lmfaoo@@arminowo3885

@Luciano_Intorno

6 ай бұрын

As a structural engineer, I can say that I have built lots of things for myself that I could never put out there professionally. Things that would never make the design codes I have to design for, but I know for my personal use that I will never approach those loads. One of the biggest issues with under designed wood is deflection and permanent creep. All wood will creep, but when something is already flimsy for its purpose, it will creep a lot. That would be my biggest concern for this thing, just from seeing how much it moves under a single man using it. That and those checks being contained with one bowtie per tread just seems too insignificant for me. As a non-repetitive, primary member, those really bugged me. I don't think it will fail, but I would definitely not have a party on it. And as someone else pointed out, keep an eye on those connections especially because of its movement. Things in wood can wiggle themselves out over time when dynamic loadings are applied.

Johnny Builds - I watch you both. Great content.

Johnny Builds: the lighter color - definitely. You Americans are lovely, but you have a strong tendency to the heavy side of almost everything:color, size, bulkiness. Love the work.

I'm sitting here thinking this is going in the house, somewhere near the dining table. Something the family will walk up & down every day, another beautiful showpiece. Imagine my laughter (at myself) when I see it's going into the shop - because WHY NOT?! :) Keep 'em coming Cam!

Definitely think you picked the right finish for the treads! The staircase looks really nice!

Johnny Builds: Was right. I really like the natural oil finish... Very entertaining build! Congrats on the new Stairs!

Johnny Builds, I know nothing about wood working & I LOVE your videos, sense of humor, sticktuitiveness, honesty & your voice is great. So enjoy the projects

Johnny Builds and Blacktail are also my two favorite channels to date on KZread. This staircase came out bad ass. It inspires me to build some of these in my home going up to my second level. Those stairs are true fire!

First and foremost, excellent work, Gentleman! I always love and enjoy your humor, Cam. Also, I feel the Vesting Invisible was indeed the way to go. The lighter color against the black beam contrast very well with your shop against those lighting conditions versus the Vesting Pure where it is too dark in my honest opinion might clash. If this was in an open area with a bunch of natural lighting coming in, then the Vesting Pure would have been the best choice. Think about it 😉

Johnny Builds was right with the pure; the invisible looks great, but the pure looks has a better contrast imo.

I knew Johnny Builds was not able to be there until the end. the plugs would have been done in walnut! I liked the other finish better, But they look Great!

Johnny builds!!! I am no where near as skilled as you to take on a project like this but your personality and sense of humor keeps me coming back every time you post a new video! One of my favorite KZreadrs! A beautiful staircase. How did your wife like it? I enjoy seeing her reactions/hearing her feedback on your projects lol

Johnny Builds with Blacktail studio are the perfect team to create this stairway. If you were ever to make another stairway, I suggest you by a two man saw like the lumberjacks used a century ago. You more than likely could cut that thick wood pretty quick. Do you feel the stairs won't get slippery if they get wet? I would consider creating some kind of non slip backing to put down. I don't believe you would have to cover the whole stair, just the high use part of the stair. Thanks so much for sharing. I never miss an episode.

That had me rolling!!! “If you just think I’m showing you the good ones. What about these?” I’m a Journeyman Carpenter/Craftsman and I’ve done plenty of staircases. I’ve done stairs with logs and timbers, even a set of stairs with timbers from a barn built in 1906. There’s a lot of ways, styles and techniques to use in a variety of ways in building stairs. I like your work and think you did a great job man… until the finish on the treads.😜

For a previous Mr law!? U are awesome! ❤😊 & love nature's ❤️ 😅 attributes thx sir from nz

Johnny builds was an absolute legend for helping you out with this. It turned out great. One think about it opportunity that came to mind was doing a saw kerf along the whole under side of the stringer beam in the center about 3” deep, then PL premium/ bolt a piece of flat bar into the kerf which would keep it from ever failing

In the end this looks really great. I would be more freaked out about the wobbling than about the holes. Thanks for sharing!

You should do a video adding supports/storage to the back of the staircase. That would be cool. It defeats the purpose of having a floating staircase though.

Omg! I just found you, so my comment is late but I'm still making it!!! Your shop is getting Fancy! A Wart Art piece like none other & now stairs that look like the need to be in a ski lodge in Aspen!! You geaux Cam!!

Johnny Builds was awesome to see in this video! Besides the great videos and things he makes, I love how supportive Cam is for Scott. Like it's just so wholesome! Great job for creating the plans and bettering yourself, we're rooting for you Scott!

Some people might like the 'Pure' finish more, I guess thats subjectiv but in composition with the black finish on the stringer the 'Invisible' one was definitely to 99% the right choice Great work!

Johnny Build - I prefer the Vesting Invisible, think you were right on this one! It looks great.

Thanks for a great video I have been watching Formula E since gen1 and I love it I love all forms of racing you have explained so much for those who are new to this form of racing but it was also interesting for me who has watched this form of racing I loved your video thank you Pete 👍🏻❤️

The darker stain would’ve looked good with the black, but I liked the light on first look. They are crazy amazing stairs to go from your shop to house!! Beautiful!

Johnny builds. I really enjoyed this video. I agree with Johnny, using the natural finish instead of the invisible one. Personally, I think it really pops next to the black. The invisible one doesn't seem as warm toned, but beautiful job😊😊. Tell Scott he did a fabulous job rendering the staircase too😊😊