Filing against Bombardier is one of the top ten stupidest things Boeing has ever done. Boeing had little threat from the C series built by Bombardier, but they now have a HUGE threat from the A220 built by Airbus, especially if they build the A220-500. What an incredibly stupid move by Boeing.

@matsv201

2 жыл бұрын

Well.. that its not in the top 3... probobly tell us a bit about boeing

@Elementalism

2 жыл бұрын

I agree Boeing filing against this aircraft is dumb. But I dont think the C-Series is any more of a threat under Airbus. It is still costing hundreds of millions and hasnt exactly sold. The frame was announced for sales in 2008 with accepting first orders in 2009. 13 years later it has a grand total of 668 orders with 193 deliveries.

@matthewq4b

2 жыл бұрын

@@Elementalism That is more sales than either the 737 or the A320 had in the same time frame upon introduction. And Boeing seen it as enough of a threat when it was with tiny Bombardier to file against it. So that sort of says it all right there.

@titan4110

2 жыл бұрын

First of all, you do realize that the CSeries and A220 are literally the same thing right? Second, if Bombardier hadn't sold it's shares to Airbus the CSeries probably would have taken all those orders instead of Airbus

@matsv201

2 жыл бұрын

@@Elementalism Well.. Have to consider that its a brand new aircraft. Even the 787 and the A350, also being brand new aircraft its have the same pilot restrictions as existing airliners. Also consider that 2 of those 13 year contain 2020 and 2021, as well as 2016 and 2017 where they could not sell in the US. So is 668 order brilliant, not quite, but its also not bad. Considering that E2 sold 200 units over 9 year despite having the E1 that is pretty similar.

I've flown the A220 and the 737-800 on the same route. The A220 was a considerably nicer plane (albeit a bit newer) than the 737. It sucks that Bombardier doesn't get the credit it deserves for such a good product.

@latenightthinker4737

2 жыл бұрын

At least they still profit from it. It turned out to be a smaller win for them but it's still a win. What's funny is how badly Boeing managed to lose

@sainnt

2 жыл бұрын

The 737 is not a direct competitor to the A220. That would have been the 717 series, which Boeing no longer builds. The direct competitor would be the planes built by Embraer. I also flew on the A220, and it was wonderful!

@gteixeira

2 жыл бұрын

It is because the Canadian taxpayer tales most of it for the plane happening.

@gteixeira

2 жыл бұрын

@@sainnt Boeing intended to buy Embraer at that time, that's why they got involved.

@junrenong8576

2 жыл бұрын

@@latenightthinker4737 Don't think they really profited from it. Bombadier sold their C-series stakes to Airbus, with the remaining stakes by Quebec. Bombadier has an excellent plane design, but has a relative poor marketing team and power as compared to Airbus. Airbus could get components with a larger discount as compared to Bombadier because of their reputation and market share, and has a great reputation among the airlines, potentially leading to more customers.

Kinda funny that this whole situation led to Boeing not getting the contract to replace the Canadian Air Force’s legacy F-18 hornets, they honestly probably lost more money petitioning this than they would’ve if they didn’t

@liamsmith4566

2 жыл бұрын

Couldn't agree more hahahaha, boeing fucked them selves, and same with the mid air refuling transports, thouse were also gonna be American but now canada are buying airbus, and same with the new SAR planes, boeings max shit show was karma for fucking over your northern neighbors 😄😆

@mancubwwa

2 жыл бұрын

As if directly causing Airbus takeover of the productline wasn't bad enough...

@lalalalalala4870

2 жыл бұрын

True. But not sure why Canadian airlines, and specially AC, have moved so heavily towards Boeing. AC is so invested in the MAX that they are phasing out their a320's for a all MAX fleet, similar to their wide-body fleet. They are also one of the largest operators of the MAX and 787 in the world.

@shinybaldy

2 жыл бұрын

Boeing shot themselves in the foot on so many levels during the whole finance driven nonsense. They pushed Bombardier into the warm embrace of Airbus, Lost the CF-18 contract, cost cut the MAX development into software and AOA sensor issues. And for what? Returning more cash to investors.

@liamsmith4566

2 жыл бұрын

@@lalalalalala4870 true but at the time boeing was selling thouse jets at what ever price AC would want it, boeing like airbus has had some shady deals, and air canada love shady workmanship, that's how that airline has ruined air travel in canada, not to mentioned our government will bend over for AC when times get tough

If Boeing had not contested Bombardier C Series in 2017 then it's possible that Bombardie wouldn't have managed to have meet the demand or been able to as easily stretch the design. Boeing effectively gifted Airbus a brand new aircraft.

@commonsense31

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, and Airbus got a brand new airplane model for the small price of 1 Canadian dollar.! 😂😢😂 just the fact that the price they put on the Merger was 1 CAD! 😂

Gotta love how Boeing tried to bully Bombardier out of sales, and ended up with egg on their face.

Delta had no Airbus planes prior to its merger with Northwest, but they did inherit some from Northwest. Since the Boeing lawsuit to block Delta’s purchase of the Bombardier C Series, I don’t believe Delta has placed a single order with Boeing. They drove off one of their biggest and most loyal customers. Now Delta has no 787s and no 737 Max planes - either in its fleet or on order. They also parked or sold all their 777s during the Covid crisis. Other than their aging 757s and 767s, Delta has evolved into an Airbus only airline. Poor strategic move by Boeing in the long run.

@Elementalism

2 жыл бұрын

They just acquired 29 more 737-900ERs that will be going into service this summer. Making it the largest subfleet in their inventory.

@scottgrayson1209

2 жыл бұрын

@@Elementalism true, but these are for used aircraft. Per Airline Weekly, “Delta’s last major Boeing order was for 100 737-900ERs in 2011. The carrier exercised several options for the jet in 2015 and 2017.” With this purchase of used 737-900 aircraft, Delta remains the only major US-based airline with no 737 Max aircraft.

@Elementalism

2 жыл бұрын

@@scottgrayson1209 Right, but my point is Delta still flies a lot of Boeing products. Their current fleet makeup is 56% Boeing products. I expect the MAX to be in their fleet at some point. But the -900ERs are young. The -800s or A320s would be a potential replacement aircraft with the MAX. Both are long in the tooth. I think the avg age of the A320s is pushing 30 years.

@JuanWayTrips

2 жыл бұрын

I'm okay with that. Other than their 777s that kept a 3-3-3 layout, Delta's Airbus planes are far more comfortable than their Boeing counterparts. I may still seek a 757 every now and then, but I will almost always pick the A321 over their 739s if I have a choice.

@matthewq4b

2 жыл бұрын

@@Elementalism Does not matter what they are flying currently. And buying used aircraft does not put money into Boeings coffers. Delta has 155 A321Neos on order and has not ordered a single Boeing aircraft since the lawsuit.

A A220-500 would be a great threat to the B 737 max. Modern technology against 60 year old technology.

@Elementalism

2 жыл бұрын

It would also be a threat to the A320. Think Airbus wants to cannibalize 3000 A320 orders on an airframe that doesnt make money?

@mp4373

2 жыл бұрын

@@Elementalism I am sure that they don't. Can't say if it will even be produced. I think that Airbus wants to increase 320 production to around 117 units per month?

@phantomflame0658

2 жыл бұрын

I agree you can just tell even as a normal passenger how ancient the design of the 737 is compared to an a220 or Embrarer ERJ. The latter two are so comfortable, quiet, stable in air, etc. The 737 is the same design as decades ago with some makeup and newer engines

@SayAnytime

2 жыл бұрын

@@mp4373 In fact I can see a developpement of the A220-500 in the future in replacement of a part of the A320 family (at least replace the A318 and A319) in the next 15 years. Because even if the design of the A320 is not outdated yet, it seems like it's close to its limits. Having a new design from the years 2000 would be a huge benefit with less investement for future developpement as there is already a base to start with. Unlike Boeing who will have to start a brand new replacement for the 737, Airbus has something to start with. The only question in the end is to determine if current design (old and new) will be adaptable for the future generation of airplanes (hydrogen, hybrid etc etc).

@todortodorov940

2 жыл бұрын

@@Elementalism Airbus won't care. If they make money from the A220 or A320 is the same outcome - profit is a profit. And if they switch some customers to the A220, they will free A32x production capacity for the highly popular A321XLR. It's a win for Airbus.

We actually started the Cseries design in 2004, and was suspended in 2006. We on the teams, were told that the board wanted an initial sale of two major airlines of 100 aircraft each. At the time, no majors were flying in the Cseries seat capacity. It wasn't being g designed for majors. The target was regional's that wanted to expand up and low cost new startup carriers. There was a mental disconnect between the initial design philosophy and the lofty ideas of the board. There was interest from some new smaller carriers we were told. In fact we heard there was up to 100 aircraft desired by several buyers, which we in design thought was better to have several smaller orders so not all our eggs were in only 2 baskets with so many aircraft. So, phase ll design go-ahead was denied in 2006 and we got suspended. It was a sad morning when management gathered us all in the cafeteria hall and told us. We were stunned,looking at each other trying to relate, understand what we just heard. What does that mean? Was what we all asked each other.

So according to Boeing's way of thinking Germany, France, Great Britain, Spain and Italy should have massive tariffs on all Boeing aircraft orders

@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus

2 жыл бұрын

@@livetubeoriginals Delta, one of Boeing's former biggest customers won't buy aircraft from them anymore, and the Canadian government with $20 billion to spend on fighter jets has said that because of this they won't be spending it with Boeing. That's why not.

@stephenjohnson2195

2 жыл бұрын

If Boeing can go to their government like a mardy child demanding tariffs then why can't Airbus do the same in the countries they operate in. British Airways, Air France and Lufthansa all operate Boeing jets despite Airbus having massive facilities in said countries, does Airbus throw their toys out the pram? No. Perhaps if Boeing were led by engineers like in the past they would still be making excellent aircraft but no they cobble together dodgy planes just to please wall street and the executives who know the cost of everything but the value of nothing

@lucasfragoso7634

2 жыл бұрын

@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus honestly we shouldn't have even considered new CF-18s and just went for a new aircraft from the beginning

Delta at the time had a majority Boeing fleet. Now they are now longer flying 777's they are phasing out older 737's , and 767's and 717's completely...what are they replacing them with? A-220's, A-321's, A-330's and A-350's. One has to wonder if Boeing had just stayed out of it, would this have been the outcome?

@richardchantlerrico

2 жыл бұрын

It really is funny as the CS Series would likely have not made anywhere near the impact that it being integrated into Airbus will now do.

@scottwendt9575

2 жыл бұрын

Delta was clearly abandoning Boeing before this. All the way back to the early 2000’s, Delta was already placing bigger orders with Airbus than Boeing….

@chrismckellar9350

2 жыл бұрын

It shows that Airbus has a better product line up than Boeing.

@todoldtrafford

2 жыл бұрын

And still Us airlines are crap regardless

@EdgyNumber1

2 жыл бұрын

@@chrismckellar9350 Well Airbus is still considered a serious engineering company. Boeing made the mistake of being invaded by the suits in the McDonnell Douglas 'C-Suite.' That, in my opinion, was Boeing's inflection point. McDonnell Douglas buying Boeing, with Boeing's money.

What ticked me off with this is that while the Canadian government certainly did have money in the C-Series program, Boeing has taken advantage of related military spending for decades. I can't fathom that the billions of dollars that the US government put into military development and spending at Boeing didn't trickle down to the commercial side of the business.

@janeferry286

2 жыл бұрын

Not to mention bailouts.

@rusticbox9908

2 жыл бұрын

One set of rules for me and a different set for you.

Having flown twice on Delta's A220s, it has become my favorite narrow-body aircraft. It has *huge* windows, clever seats with tablet holders and with two and three seating, it is much easier to avoid middle seats.

@todortodorov940

2 жыл бұрын

To summarize your words: *a modern airplane*

@julianfell666

2 жыл бұрын

And in consolation, the middle seat is one inch wider than the others.

@nate7906

2 жыл бұрын

I agree I really like Delta A220. Quieter plane I have been on

@richardarcher5789

2 жыл бұрын

But compared to a 737, the seats are much bigger. Why would I want to fly on a max that has a not so good track record and very uncomfortable seating.

Fly Airbus see the world, fly Boeing see the next one

@Oskar0424

2 жыл бұрын

Lmfaooo

@Starglance

2 жыл бұрын

next one what?

@hansloyalitat9774

2 жыл бұрын

@@Starglance heaven

@limaim26

Жыл бұрын

This comment made my day 😂😂😂😂

@alfaeco15

Жыл бұрын

​@@hansloyalitat9774or hell

Boeing accusing other aircraft makers getting subsidies is pretty rich, I believe no other aircraft company gets more subsidies than Boeing.

@JDAbelRN

Жыл бұрын

Western Free world would not be protected from Russian and China 🇨🇳 ambitions without Air forces built mainly on back of Boeing.

The Bombardier CS series had more US made content than the B787 did.

At the end, clear “winner” here is Airbus, so it seems. And, 737 is just - a larger platform, overlap would not be as significant as A320 series. Also, no matter how much they massage 737 into a newer versions, it is an older design with limited potential for further improvement. It really looks like Boeing is reaching into the bag of esotherric solutions to squeeze as much as they can out of 737 platform. Sadly, they missed the train and it will take time and effort to catch up - unless Embraer comes up with something. From what I’ve read and heard, that is not a happy marriage (Boeing-Embraer).

@mikemontgomery2654

2 жыл бұрын

I think that marriage is officially over. I recall reading that somewhere. I wish I still remembered the source.

I think that Boeing makes it painfully clear that they are determined to shoot themselves in the foot anytime the opportunity presents itself, and - they won't stop until they are completely gone out of business!

@shi01

2 жыл бұрын

@bart solari Well, the war machine doesn't necesarily need the civil aviation part. I mean Boeing will not completly disappear any time soon that's for sure. But who knows how the civil aviation market will look like in 25 years.

@winwinniewinfield

2 жыл бұрын

That good ol Douglas leadership is there and hellbent on market share only and going cheap and making mistake after mistake … sad Boeing used to be the leader now they follow …. Still making mistakes

I'm glad Delta gave Boeing the finger on that one. Their A220 is a great plane to fly on. Considering the timing of the order and what happened soon after to the MAX, Delta made the right choice

@brianeleighton

2 жыл бұрын

Delta gave them the ULTIMATE finger. Delta prior to this had a fleet comprised entirely of Boeing aircraft and not a single Airbus model. Since Boeing did this little stunt, Delta has not ordered a single Boeing aircraft and all of its new orders are going to Airbus. This little stunt by Boeing cost them literally billions of dollars in sales with one of the world's biggest airlines.

The reason I love the A220 so much is that for all the fuss Boeing and the relevant U.S. agencies' created, it is still a success. The 737 MAX series are not 100% certified globally, 787 production is still at a standstill, and the 777X is still being pushed back year after year. Boeing has spent so much time & energy on its rivalries with other manufacturers that its own place in the industry is now playing second fiddle to Airbus. I used to be a 100% Boeing avgeek but those days are long gone. After what it did to Bombardier and not to mention how it jilted Embraer, I wish Boeing would turn out the lights, shutter its windows and just ride off into the sunset. It isn't an innovator with a proven track record anymore, it's a punchline with glaring deficiencies and a bully posturing about how its current offerings are the best in the industry with no actual proof.

@rickfeng4466

2 жыл бұрын

McDonnell Douglas brought Boeing using Boeing’s money.

@todortodorov940

2 жыл бұрын

@@rickfeng4466 ... and is now taking Boeing to the grave *he he he*

@skunkworksalpha7868

2 жыл бұрын

The U.S. department of commerce today affirmed that bombardier has taken massive illegal subsidies in violation of existing trade law. Subsidies enable Bombardier to dump its product into the us market, harming aerospace workers in the United States and throughout Boeing’s global supply chain. Let me fix that quote: The U.S. department of commerce today affirmed that Bombardier has produced a superior, modern aircraft, superior in every way to Boeing’s 60+ year old 737 airframe design. In order to protect Boeing, its aerospace workers, global supply chain and most importantly the lobbyist and money we get from them, we will initiate a ridiculous tariff to protect home grown slothfulness.

@OfficialShreyas2

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. If Boeing wants to become the leading aircraft manufacturer again, they need to stop caring about what other manufacturers are doing and stop making fusses and start focusing on their own planes

@user-cm9fy8nq3q

2 жыл бұрын

The prime reason why Philippine Airlines and Cebu Pacific went all in on Airbus on their regional jets was because of the 737 Max fiasco.

I have great respect for Bombardier as a transport manufacturer. They make the latest trains in my city which are marvelous, comfortable, efficient, and well designed. While it's nice to see a project of theirs become so present in the global conversation of aviation I can't help but feel upset that they themselves were denied a serious entry into this market over, well, Boeing being classic post-merger Boeing. Don't innovate, iterate and create flawed designs. Don't predict and pre-emptively act, suppress and complain. Frankly it's childish.

@cedricpomerleau5586

2 жыл бұрын

They sold their trains recently, honestly there’s not much left of Bombardier.

@cakexpress6235

2 жыл бұрын

@@cedricpomerleau5586 sold their planes as well right? Edit: not just the Cseries

@cedricpomerleau5586

2 жыл бұрын

@@cakexpress6235 Some of it, but they still have their Global and Challenger lines (they stopped the Learjet program).

I so want to see Airbus mops up the 737's smaller models with the A220. Let's realize their worst fear!

Well, I must say, it looks good on Boeing. They decided to step on little Bombardier, and ended up facing Airbus. Boeing, maybe spend more energy on making planes with fewer flaws, and less time shooting yourself in the foot. It's hard to believe this is the same company that made ground breaking aircraft like the 707 and the 747.

@Plab1402

Жыл бұрын

It's really sad how a massive and legendary company decided to bully a newcomer just to shoot themselves in the foot, and that newcomer gave that aircraft to Airbus so boeing practically gave Airbus (their biggest rival) a brand new aircraft they can stretch and start competing with the max, and now Airbus as both the A320NEO family and the A220 to help out, boeing only has the max...

Boeing aren't just clowns, they're the whole circus. They deserve every little bit that they get.

@emdxemdx

2 жыл бұрын

Mc Donnell Douglas was the protoypical corrupt to the bone US company whose name was thoroughly burned. So it needed a new virginity which it got by buying Boeing mostly for it's good name, which it promply sullied with the 737 MAX maxi-fuckup and by totally bungling Starliner...

So Delta drama explained: Boeing acted like a spoiled single child and cried to mummy bc Delta didn't take boeings " competing" offer of a 60yr old boeing or second hand bangers from a (thankfully) totally different manufacturer. Next vid: How Boeing is amazingly still selling airplanes...

@titan4110

2 жыл бұрын

They might not have the best stake in the US market and when the MAX was launched they heavily targetted Asia, which has been successful. Plus they couldn't compete the offer without making a loss because they didn't have subsidies like Bombardier did. And the planes are brand new.

@osasunaitor

2 жыл бұрын

@@titan4110 Boeing not having subsidies? Oh boy they definitely do get some sweet, sweet subsidies for their military aircraft

@1joshjosh1

2 жыл бұрын

I have no idea why I bought their stock

@benghazi4216

2 жыл бұрын

@@osasunaitor Not mentioning the tax breaks they get everywhere they set up shop. That is also subsidies. And quite massive at that too.

As if Booing never took government money.

boeings spat regarding this shows that boeing has no plan to counter potention competition who chooses to try and stop it like it did. i wonder how they would react if the european and asian markets applied a 292% tarriff on all its products as they are not "made" in the US

Pretty rich considering the special relationship Boeing has with the FAA, in which it gets to set up and pass its own safety tests, in effect, which is how it slipped MCAS under regulators' noses in the certification of the 737-MAX. I wonder how many billions of dollars it's saved over the years thanks to government arrangements like that?

Whenever I had a choice between flying on a 737 or an A220, I picked the A220. The 220 offered a much nicer, much more comfortable experience than the 737.

This is what happens to companies that focus more on their competitors than on themselves... Wanted the easy way out, they screwed up even worse

Fire a few more engineers and hire a few more bean counters. It worked well in the past, lets double down and see if we can actually bankrupt what used to be one of the best companies in the US.

So much for the free trade agreement between Canada and the USA. I just hope that the jobs in Quebec which produce the A220 will be secure for awhile under Airbus ? Still it would've been nice to see the Bombardier name attached to the original C series name. On a further note, I wonder if this was the situation between Delta & Boeing that pissed Delta off so much that it isn't ordering any Boeing jetliners to date ?

@osasunaitor

2 жыл бұрын

As far as I know, production of the A220 continues in Quebec additionally to Alabama

@brianeleighton

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. Boeing permanently burned that bridge with Delta. Delta is not the first airline to hate the current Boeing regime. It is just the largest. JetBlue is an exclusively Airbus airline because of Boeing as well. JetBlue when it was starting up wanted to use the 737. They were looking to place a fairly large order with Boeing and were looking for a discount on the per unit price (a very common practice in the airlines). Boeing, in all of its arrogance was SURE JetBlue wouldn't buy the A-320neo and decided to play hardball. By the time they got their heads out of their asses and were willing to negotiate on price, JetBlue was well into negotiations with Airbus. The JetBlue CEO has said publicly that JetBlue will never do business with Boeing because of the disrespectful way they were treated by Boeing. Edit: I should add that not only is Delta not buying new Boeing aircraft, it is actively working to eliminate them from its fleet.

Let's be fair that Boeing is being subsidized for a number of years from the US government, so this was a cry-baby lawsuit. It did not have any merit whatsoever. Even now, the only way it can compete with the B737 is on unit price. The Boeing airframe design is Paleolithic compared to the C-Series/A220 one and so it is it's potential.

@bigben2k

2 жыл бұрын

That's fair. I'd also add that the "production cost" of an airplane is hard to estimate, without knowing how many will be built, to span the research and development cost; this was an easy loophole for Boeing to exploit in their argument.

@scpatl4now

2 жыл бұрын

When you aren't innovating...you end up litigating.

@todortodorov940

2 жыл бұрын

All their military and NASA contracts is what keeps Boeing afloat. But they are not doing well. There is competition from the other US manufacturers of military airplanes and when it comes to space flight - they just suck. They underestimated the capabilities of SpaceX and the other private companies. In 5-10 years, when the current contracts run out, NASA won't be renewing them.

@indahooddererste

2 жыл бұрын

Oh choosing the KC-46 over the A330-MRTT is another hidden subsidary. And they nearly fucked this up too so the air force nearly needed to lease the A330-MRTT to keep the tanker fleet running.

@asianbiker69canada

2 жыл бұрын

It’s a bs American politics! Canada was ahead of it’s time with the Avro Arrow. Maybe we should limit the supply and jack up the price of Aluminum, that would hurt the Boeing!

Boeing is greedy

The biggest threat to Boeing is it's own management culture. I think that I will not be alone in avoiding flights in their planes in future.

@monnidesmonnides8554

2 жыл бұрын

Stupid decision

@benghazi4216

2 жыл бұрын

@@monnidesmonnides8554 Why? This company has been proven to put profits over safety.

Why would you not choose the A220 over the 60 year old 737. It’s not Bombardier’s fault that Boeing is milking the 737 for all it’s worth and now is finally finding out that it is out dated

Yes the A220 is a credible threat, and for good reason. The 737 is based on technology from the 1960s with incremental upgrades. The A220 is a new design leveraging cutting edge aerospace technology. It is objectively better in that it offers passengers a better experience, and costs airlines less to operate. In 2017, going into 2018, Boeing was left cleaning up the mess from mishandling the 737 MAX8 MCAS debacle. Boeing did enough self inflicted damage. The competition from the A220 was justified.

The saddest thing of all is Canada is really good at building excellent aircraft and have been for a very long time but because the United states has a huge aircraft industry they have always stopped at nothing to crush anything or anyone who is the least bit of a threat

Boeing is crying like a sore loser.... Airbus and Bombardier (one of my favorite private jet maker) are both laughing at the lawsuit

Personally I think British airways and Lufthansa should take them up to replace the a319s and maybe BA could use a -100 for BA1/2

@matthewq4b

2 жыл бұрын

I think in time that will happen. The A220 is still proving itself, as more are delivered and a larger cross-section is available for statistical analysis sales will ramp up, if the plane continues on it's current positive trajectory.

As a Canadian, I am proud that Bombardier designed and built the C series. I hope our gouverment will not do business with Boeing after their complaint!

@mangos2888

2 жыл бұрын

Ditto! As an (US) American!

@Starglance

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, you can be proud. I flew on one of it today (A220 SWISS), and it's fantastic and superior to B737

@JDAbelRN

Жыл бұрын

It is my understanding Canadian Air owns many Boeing aircraft and plan to purchase many more variants.

I have to disagree that "Boeing's fuss in 2017" proved correct. If Boeing had left Bombardier alone, it would have produced the initial c220. The organisation was at maximum stretch, it was in no position to develop newer bigger versions. Boeing would have had the small/medium field to itself. Instead they overreacted, Airbus joins the party and now Boeing has a serious challenger. The 747 and 787 were amazing cutting edge planes. The early 737 were real work horses. With the exception of those planes Boeing has sunk into Navel gazing complacency. The A220 fleet is the consequence.

The problem with the 737 Max series is that they are based on a very old design. Personally, I'd rather fly on a more modern design of aircraft than an old one. I also love the Comet nose on the A220, the 737's just looks ugly.

@siddharthsharma8940

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not really a fan of Boeing, but I disagree that the 737 looks ugly. It looks properly classic/vintage and has a look that no modern plane can match. The plane itself is old and outdated, but ugly it is not

@Petriefied0246

2 жыл бұрын

@@siddharthsharma8940 that's a fair comment, but I always thought the Comet and the VC10 were much more beautiful aircraft.

@siddharthsharma8940

2 жыл бұрын

@@Petriefied0246 the VC10 is one of the most aggressive looking commercial jets I've seen. Totally love it. My appreciation for the 737's design comes from the Boeing 727. That trijet was incredible, especially in the FedEx livery. The 707,727 and 737 all have the same fuselage cross section and noses. So my love for the 707 and 727 translates to the 737. My all time fav airliner goes to The Concorde, which was made by what is today known as Airbus

Just evil on the part of Boeing and the U. S. regulators. So everything will be an Airbus or a Boeing unless the Chinese buy out Embraer? Not too keen on that either…

@kiraasuka9943

2 жыл бұрын

R u new to this world to learn the evil of US gov? If it doesn't benefit our political donor then let's take a fight. If anything can win us one vote let's do it whatever it's right or wrong

@ecclestonsangel

2 жыл бұрын

@markiangooley the Chinese collaborated with Russia to build their own fleet. I think it's called the AT-21, or something like that. Some of the airlines in China are flying it already. Dunno about Russia though. I wouldn't be surprised if, in a few months, maybe by early summer, we hear about a big crash on the mainland or Hong Kong, with lots of fatalities, and it happened with one of their planes. We all know how China likes to do everything on the cheap. How much you wanna bet they've got 5 year olds shackled to the assembly line? 🤔

@kiraasuka9943

2 жыл бұрын

@@ecclestonsangel I looked it up it's called arj 21 and it's a small regional jet plane with around 60 seats. Over 60 delivered since 2016 and NO accident on record. Chinas 737 competitor is called c919 and make big splash (at least I heard of, not like arj not even heard of)

@liamsmith4566

2 жыл бұрын

Brazil would never let China take over there proud aerospace company, embraer might build a plant in China but every country knows to stay the fuck away from Asia apart from South Korea and Japan, untill boeing and airbus quite giving hand jobs to the feds it'll be like this for a while

@MarceloTrindade1

2 жыл бұрын

@@kiraasuka9943 In fact, the ARJ21 is a 80-90 seat aircraft from the same manufacturer of the 150+ seat C919 (COMAC). Besides the chinese C919, there is a new competitor for the 737, the russian aircraft Irkut MC-21.

Still bloody angry at Boeing for pulling this s***. They knew that their trade case would ultimately fail but knew Bombardier was not in a financial situation to survive a long trade dispute, especially if Delta ended up canceling their order because of it. What should have been a symbol of pride for Canadian aviation, is now a easy win for European Airbus. Boeing honestly got what they deserve these past few years with Airbus taking over in terms of orders (this coming from someone who owns shares in Boeing!) On another note, I really hope Airbus keeps the Mirabel facility as the main site of plant for A220 assembly for years to come!

A220 with a possible stretch is a threat for the Max 7, the plane is more economical to operate and friendlier for passengers!

As a pilot having flown Boeing and Airbus....I can tell you Airbus builds much nicer and more advanced airplanes.

Just took an A220 today for the first time. Fantastic aircraft.

The naming convention of “C-Series CS100/CS300” still sounds so much better than the “A220-100/300,” in my opinion.

I look forward to hopefully seeing Delta buy more and more A220s

@brianeleighton

2 жыл бұрын

They are. This stupid move by Boeing took one of their biggest and most loyal customers and made them their enemy. Delta hasn't ordered a single Boeing aircraft since, every new aircraft order they have placed has gone to Airbus. Not only that, but they are actively reducing the number of Boeing aircraft in the fleet.

@ericjones7769

2 жыл бұрын

@@brianeleighton yea i see!!!!! The last Boeing planes Delta got were the 739s so yea 🤷‍♂️

@ericjones7769

2 жыл бұрын

@@brianeleighton and what's crazy is that!!! Ok Delta needed a plane within the 100-110 seat capacity,Boeing had that in the 717s but what did Boeing do,they decided to stop producing them in 2006,stupid move on Boeings part!!! Then fast forward to 2013 or so when Bombardier announced the Cseries now A220 plane which was the plane that had the capacity that Delta was looking for and then Boeing gets jealous and tries to sabotage the deal that Delta had with Bombardier for the Cseries turned A220s because Boeing wanted Delta to buy it's 737s instead of Bombardier's Cseries turned A220 and look at the issues that Boeing ended up having with it's Max afterwards!!!! I swear Karma is a Bytch and now Airbus is reigning all over Boeing now with more orders!!!!!! Karma Karma Karma is all i can say 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

@brianeleighton

2 жыл бұрын

@@ericjones7769 Unfortunately, it looks like it is Airbus's turn for arrogance now. Since they have taken over as the largest manufacturer, they have started to act worse than Boeing. In fact, it looks like Airbus has driven a pretty huge customer to Boeing. Etihad Airlines discovered a structural problem with their fleet of A350s. Specifically that the paint was cracking and degrading way faster than it should and the fuselage required extensive patching and repair. Airbus initially tried to blame it on the temperature swings that Etihad operates in. Specifically, taking a plane from the cold temperatures of cruising flight into the hot temperatures of the Dubai desert and vice versa. This is until six other airlines reported the same issues with THEIR A350s. The Dubai Aviation Authority issued a directive to ground all A350s as a result. Airbus is claiming that it is simply "cosmetic" and the European Union Aviation Authority has certified it as safe. Here is the problem with that, just as the FAA was (and is) in Boeing's pocket so is the EAA with Airbus. Etihad as a result refused to take any more A350s until the problem was fixed. Airbus in retaliation cancelled their order for 50 A320neos. Etihad has been an exclusively Airbus airline up until this month...when they announced an order of up to 50 737 Max 10s and a huge order of the 777x freighter variant.

@brianeleighton

2 жыл бұрын

@@ericjones7769 What it really boils down to is a total lack of competition. A duopoly is NOT a healthy free market.

Well that intervention by Boeing did not go well -now Airbus hold the reins ! .I have noticed the protectionist nature of selling 'foreign' planes into the USA. A further case was the A 330 MRTT winning an order from the Military which then got overturned on appeal in favour of Boeing KC 46 . The USA also tried to stop Concorde from flying to New York on noise grounds which was proven by BA to be unfounded !

@FiveTwoSevenTHR

2 жыл бұрын

The Lockheed Martin LMXT, the American made A330 MRTT, might still replace the KC-46.

@JDAbelRN

Жыл бұрын

Really, still complaining a completely irrelevant SST that would never have been successful? It belongs in dustbin of history.

"....and that Boeing CEO stood at that podium and blamed those pilots; and according to reports, he KNEW BETTER" Integrity running on empty gets you just where Boeing is now.

Great video

Boeing's actions is a classic example why I dumped my stocks last 2017

@etherealrose2139

2 жыл бұрын

That sucks for you

@benghazi4216

2 жыл бұрын

@@etherealrose2139 Ehm? Maybe check a graph over their stock price?

Legendary story for explaining "backfire"

We know that Boeing tried to do a similar deal with Embraer, but the deal failed. With Embraer struggling to sell the E2 series, they may still end up doing the deal, which would explain why Boeing isn't building another regional jet to compete with the A220. The next 3-4 years will be telling in terms of what happens to Embraer.

"Canadian subsidies are allowing them to make this deal". Says the company that is pretty much on the US goverments payroll... What Boeing managed to do was take their foot out of the bear trap and put their head in it. 😆

Boeing continues to be its own worst enemy. Shame about all the collateral damage...

Just goes to show: vigorous competition quickly spurs rapid innovations which ultimately benefits everyone.

I really like how Boeing did shot it's own leg. No one likes bullies and they did get what they deserved.

Boeing fought to a plane with a range and passenger capacity that they are not selling, for the possibility of larger planes... For Bombardier could be impossible, because they have only one factory to make planes, they have a maximum capacity to make around 50 planes a year, 12 years to fulfill the actual orders, but with Airbus, they could make the planes in several factories around the globe. An A220-500, I am not sure if they will do it, because Pratt & Whitney PW1500G, have low trust, if they wanted to do it they will need the PW1100G with a redesign of the engine nacelles and support for them, also study the airframe with all that trust. It is necessary a new prototype and Airbus only will do if several companies wanted it, instead of an A319NEO (Same engines).

No, Boeing had on reason to file a dumping petition against Bombardier. The 737-700 is still a 737, which is a completely different category of aircraft. The 737 MAX wasn’t fully certified globally yet, and Bombardier’s subsidies pale in comparison to Boeing’s, while much of it would be payed back as interest-free loans by the government of Quebec and Canada.

@HeliNomadic

2 жыл бұрын

I've read your full comment and I think you meant to type "Boeing had NO reason..." Is this correct?

@ATIMELINEOFAVIATION

2 жыл бұрын

@@HeliNomadic oh yes typo

I fly a delta A220 between BOS and ORD with reasonable regularity and it's a great aircraft. Really glad Delta went with them

There's more to the story...Boeing then got scared again of a Bombardier and Airbus partnership, then tried to form a Boeing-Embraer partnership..which didn't go so well.

@LongHaulbySimpleFlying

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment. Yes - there was much more to the story, which we didn't include in the video. We'll have to produce a second part to this video to cover what happened after.

I'm watching more Aviation Video Topics on The Airbus A220 Series that Delta Airlines have buy & Delivered to them for years now which is Interesting Awesome Video!!!!

Boeing also made a big blunder of not buying the C Series program that Bombardier offered to Boeing initially for almost free of cost and instead tried to purchase Embrear for 8 billion. That was not smart.

Even if the future engine choice will be larger in diameter, the A220 won't change engine position....cause pylon position is higher than on Max Series

Lots of comments about the a220 competing with a319 and b737-700. Remember that both of these are dying in the market. The a321 is chasing the a320 and I suspect that it will become the main model. Both the current a320 and b737 are due for replacement with new designs within the next decade.

@mangos2888

2 жыл бұрын

*Laughing in the next 737…*

I used to be a die hard Boeing geek, once a company that innovated the industry has taken a backseat to mediocrity. William E. Boeing would do quality control checks in his the early days and eventually destroy parts that he did not find to his quality standards. Fast forward and now you have the hacks of McDonnell Douglas ruining a once great company. I remember telling my family over 25 years ago that Bombardier and Embraer would eventually take over domestic routes with their aircraft, smaller capacity along with operational costs, Airbus and Boeing will have to play catch up to them. Rehashing the 737 design for how many times now?? Maybe they could have just made the modern version of "Fat Albert", the 100 series to try to compete? Boeing should of just retired the 737 years ago and improved the 757 design The C Series found its market and Boeing can not do a thing about it, just pout like a child who was sent into a timeout. I have to love Airbus for coming in and helping Bombardier, one thing is that I do not trust any aircraft assembled in the Southern United States for its lack of skilled Aeronautical Union Workers, a ploy for both companies to bust Unions. Oh well.....lets see what Boeing can come with in the future.....797?? Poor Don Douglas and William Boeing, they are turning over in their graves seeing how what they created has become a joke

737max grounding just like a karma

@JDAbelRN

Жыл бұрын

Update, check latest Air India 787 and 737 massive orders.

I sincerely hope Delta don't buy another Boeing. Ever. But I think the real loser is Embraer. The E-190 series is yesterday's machine, now so very clearly outmatched by the A220-100, and they've got no answer to the A220-300 anyway.

@brianeleighton

2 жыл бұрын

They aren't. Since this happened Delta has become an exclusive Airbus customer and is actively working to retire the Boeing types still in their fleet.

Given the lack of MAX7 orders I would say operators are shifting to 100-160 seat market to the more efficient C-Series.

@sking2173

2 жыл бұрын

The CS-Series is more efficient AND more customer friendly ...

I already left complete comments in your shorter video about your errors. You omit the more significant part: Bombardier was near bankruptcy. It spun off the C-Series into separate debt-free company with $1b equity injection rom Québec Government. TRhe Canadian government did not provide any money to bail out Bombardier of CSALP as your video states. Bombardier did not sell half of CSALP to Airbus, it was GIFTED. And this deal also required Bombardier to continue to put money into CSALP (about $300 million) to first delivery without any Airbus contribution. So, from Boeing's point of view: CSALP can sell the A220s at a price that doesn't have to factor in the billions that Bombardier sank into developping the project. hence accusation of selling bellow cost. Bombardier liquidated all its programmes with buyers not taking on any debt. As a result, all Bombardier has left are the Global 7500 and Challenger 604 business jets are still have $9b in debts. Expect Bombardier to sell the Global 7500 after which it will declare formal bankruptcy, and Airbus will not be involved in any of that and not inherint andy of the debt. The C-Series project started prior to 9-11. Bombardier was eying Northwest Airlines need to replace its fleet of DC-9s, hence targetting 100 seat aircraft. When 9-11 happened, Northwest went Chapter 11, ended up bought by Delta, and Bombardier suffered indigestion because it continued to spit out CRJ-200s and refusing to consider airlines woull cancel orders. (Delta was largest customer and it killed a whole bunch of orders). This caused C-Series go to on hold for a number of years, but during that time Pratt & Whithey developped the Geared Turbofan engine and that gave Bombardier the incentive to restart project and find new customers. It is important to note that it was designed and optimized for 100-130 seats which was bellow 737/320. But the bigger change was that Bombardier would now sell to the mainline airlines, not regional carriers, so would be competing against Boeing and Airbus. But as with the 787, the C-Series Capacity grew as it was developped to improve economics and the CS-300/A220-300 does get into Boeing's turf and you'll not that the 737-7 (MAX) was on hold for a long time due to lack fo orders but Boeing recetly confirmed it woudl deliver the Southwest ones. That is partly because of the A220 eating sales.

As a passenger, and if I can choose. A220 over 737 or E19x any day. Just a nicer plane. Modern, airy, comfortable.

I was at recurrent Flight Attendant training for Shuttle America (a RAH owned Airline) when it was announced that we were going to be getting these! Imagine the excitement to go from an E-170-175 to this!!! However, due to the pilot scope clauses, Republic Airways Holdings had to give up the order and Delta stepped in and took the planes.

How does A220 compare v max 8...say in running costs per passanger?

Haha Boeing. What goes around comes around. Your recent troubles are well deserved. Too bad people had to die because of your irresponsible actions

I think Boeing suits deserved everything that happened to the company following this event. The greedy nature of the American manufacturer made it lose Embraer, then the 737 MAX crashes happened, and then certain virus. Let the engineers be in charge, like it was before, to not do the same mistakes MD did before.

I remember seeing a lot of A220s in my state I had no idea they were manufactured here.

Boeing should have taken the deal with Embraer, or at least brought back the 717 (MD-80) series which Delta still loves to this day. That would have been better since they would have a competitor instead of shafting Bombardier which is now owned by Mitsubishi and Airbus.

The toilet at the back of the 220 at least on air baltic is fantastic. So much room for activities!

@JDAbelRN

Жыл бұрын

Like normal functions of airliner restroom, voiding bodily wastes?

So what was the final price of the us a220 vs CSeries?

Has Boeing ever sold aircraft internationally (commercial or military) where government help has allowed them to sell the aircraft at a lower price than they would otherwise had done so?

@twotone3471

2 жыл бұрын

The US and Canada are free trade partners. That Canada had violated that agreement, blatantly, deserved notice. However, the Canadians had the last laugh I think.

When US companies can't compete they rely on the US Government for protection, this time they shot themselves in the feet, BOTH feet... With the karma of the Max disaster a 60-yo aircraft my associates will still avoid Max like the plague for next few years... A220 is new and modern, there will be an A220=500 so Airbus too!

The A-220 might be a threat to Boeing not because of seating capacity but because of a more advanced design compared to the old 737 that should never have been upgraded to a Max version.

Airbus gave the C-Series the marketing and support infrastructure it might never have developed as a Bombardier product. I would have preferred if the C-Series had remained a made in Canada aircraft but the industry seems to revolve around the major players and state owned producers. Its purely coincidental that Boeing, the incumbent manufacturer in Canada's replacement fighter procurement program, was deselected by the Government of Justine Trudeau, an ardent support of all things Quebec, including Bombardier I imagine.

@GH-oi2jf

2 жыл бұрын

Isn’t the aircraft still built in Canada for non-US airlines?

@mangos2888

2 жыл бұрын

Well it’s well deserved. Boeing doesn’t deserve the business after the sh** show it pulled.

not one comment ive read so far has mentioned the root of these faults. it seems moving the beancounter management to chicago was the beginning of the end. have watched them layoff armies while their priorities changed from engineering to pinching pennies at all cost. use to be a boeing fanboy because of their history

The A220 and B717 are in the same class with 5 abreast seating. Was the A220 a threat at the time, probably, as the A220 was a clean sheet airframe design and the B737 MAX was a rehash of an older design, please the A220 had greater operation flexibility that the B737 MAX.

Boeing spent time and throwing their weight around and bullying Bombardier, when they should have spent it on making better planes. Instead the got the Max shitshow, 787 issues and no one is holding their breath about the 777X. Airbus must be pissing themselves laughing.

@rscott2247

2 жыл бұрын

But Airbus is probably not laughing long due its' own issues with Qatar Airways over poor paint quality /application, lawsuits, cancellations.

Worried - sure. They should be, since they spend their $$$ on stock buybacks and dividends. ANyone who brings a new jet into service is a threat...

It is a bit like a 737-max, but I'm pretty sure Canadian engineers are too nice to make it have a runaway stabilizer and try to crash itself straight down into the ground.

I'd almost forgotten about my vitriol for Boeing. Crocodile tears from them.

If Boeing wants customers they can start by innovating, and not relying on their American privilege to shut down smaller companies in the light of them threatening their lazy products. what happened to Bombardier was totally unfair and if it wasn't for Boeing's "American company privilege" we wouldn't have this conversation.

@JDAbelRN

Жыл бұрын

Boo hoo 😭

Even if they were a threat to 737 family (because possible stretches or sth idk), which I don't believe, that's just not how you do businesses. Every early production units are "dumped", manufacturers sell below costs because before they can ramp up the production the early ones are just more expensive to build and no one would buy them at their actual price.

@pyromcr

2 жыл бұрын

You're ignoring the government subsidies.

It still makes me laugh that Boeing's own arrogance backfired on them so hard.

It would be nice if the public could have confidence that this was an impartial, just, and fair finding by the US government agencies involved. It would be nice but with all the "in bed with Boeing" shenanigans they have been shown to have and still have that is highly unlikely. Turns out that even though Boeing had no legitimate case by drawing out the lengthy process and buying who knows how many bureaucrats and politicians they got the same effect that an actual victory would have given them even though they lost. For any normal citizen they would be open to repay financial loss and reputation damage done to Bombardier and Delta by their specious litigation. That this was done for them by the bureaucracy and government illustrates how corrupt that relationship is. Such hypocrisy is outrageous when you consider how many other countries and businesses are allowed and encouraged to "dump" in the US market by the government. Truly disgusting to watch these whores in Washington D.C. wipe their fat rears with the American flag after shoveling in from the trough of public money and pay offs.

Well put together. Disappointed that you didn't mention how all aircraft manufacturers get some sort of government funding for aircraft development. It keeps and develops aircraft building talent. It's a national security issue.

What Boeing should be most worried about is not the $19M sails price, but rather the $35M production cost... That is Waaaay under what Boeing can do, for a plane that is arguable quite a bit better. That the tarrif was over 200%, rather than the somewhat more reasonable 75% between sales and manufacturing price... That the tarrif was as high as 200% prove that it was really just about having a duopoly.

@matsv201

2 жыл бұрын

@@undercoverx9921 yea i dont knows boeigns profit margin is, but I bet its not 200%.. or even 150%.. probobly more in the 15-20% range. Just extend the fuselage with 6 seats, and they have a 737-8 competitor. 5 more seats and its a 737-9 competitor. Now, i dont know of that is possible but the A220-500 was in the works alreddy in the Bombardier days, and its slotted right between 737-7 and 8. And If Bombardier had had a major sucess, we probobly se the 500 alreddy today. Of cause airbus is a bit less keen. I try to find evidance of a 700, and there are some, but most of it looks fake to me. There have probobly been internal diskussions of a 700, but probobly no in deapth design works. To my understanding the 500 was part of the primary design work. Im speculating in airbus eventally close down the A319 and A320 series and only keep the A321LR, XLR and a A322. The A322 would be a A321xlr with the fuel swiched for 6 more rows. Its also possible that the A320 will be retired soon, its the oldest aircraft in airbus fleet, and well, one more engineupdate, then its done. A320CEO actually was upgraded with a new engine in the 90tys. So the neo of now is actually the 3rd interation. The next gen engines are alreddy under late stage develpment. Its probobly only 1 or 2 years away from being publicly avalible. The somehing like 3-5 years to get into a airliner, so in would say around 2028 we will see the first next half gen. Maybe airbus is waiting for them to present the next The target gold is redily avalible, bypass will be around 1:15, disc pressure will be down about 20% the maximum compression about 1:70, i seen the top temperature also, but cant remeber it. Fuel consumption about -15% (RR numbers, i controlö calulated it, seams aboit right) and they will be fully flex fuel. So cockingoil, syntetic fuel, what ever, they should run. Im not expecting Airlines to run on alt fuel from day one, but they might be cheaper then Jet-A eventually.

@Jack3md

2 жыл бұрын

@@undercoverx9921 $100 million? No, nowhere near that. A *lot* lower.

As a Canadian this whole story is so silly, of course our planes are cheaper! CAD is hardly ever as strong as USD... I like a lot of Boeing planes but Boeing should have minded their own business and focused on building 737 Maxs that didn't hide MCAS & kill everyone inside...

My company supplied parts to the c series and when boeing tried blocking the deal for delta we were shitting bricks until airbus put a stake in

The CSeries/A220 does not pose a big enough threat to the 737 MAX and it never will unless an A220-500 entered the market with a 170/180 seat maximum capacity. Only then does Boeing have reason to be worried. Bombardier really only had one small factory to produce the CSeries. Boeing could probably churn out more 737s from Renton in a few months than Bombardier could do in a year. It’s a shame to see a giant like Boeing fall and lose their way after this whole debacle. A lot of people claim it was the result of the McDonnell Douglas acquisition, I’d love to know how true that is. Any former MD employees watching this?

@matthewq4b

2 жыл бұрын

In short all of Boeings current issues are a result of the McDonnell Douglas acquisition. Basically McDonnell Douglas management stayed and Boeings was gradually pushed out the door. This was finalized when Boeing moved headquarters from Seattle to Chicago. Whereas before the move Boeing was very a bottom-up company it now all top down...