Edit: Mayo made a nice response here in the comments which I pinned, but it seems he decided to delete it which is surprising. I'm assuming it's due to harassment, which I obviously don't condone (although I don't know what the ratio of hate comments/vs discussion was in his thread, the comments section seems civil enough from what I can tell). As a side note for those wondering, I use Reshade to add bloom to the game; particularly, the Neobloom effect. Additionally, to anyone coming into the video not knowing who this Mayo chap is, it's better to avoid learning about this drama altogether. The purpose of this video is to simply facilitate discussion amongst those already involved in the whole situation, and at least shed light on why I feel Under The Mayo has garnered such an infamous reputation when he's simply another reviewer on this platform.

@phat-Rat

Жыл бұрын

Nah, he's actually an asshole. You really missed the mark on this. You didn't even engage in the actual problems with him. Has absolutely ZERO to do with his opinions alone. It goes deeper than that.

@colbyboucher6391

Жыл бұрын

Gotta get that primo 2007 look

@ProbNotCross

Жыл бұрын

@@ebengis its literally an option in the game.

@Orvixran7692

Жыл бұрын

ReShade squad... ASSEMBLEEE!!!!!!

The issue I have with mayo is not that he had an unpopular opinion on what might improve the game, it's the way he presents his ideas and critiques in the most infuriating way possible. He constantly speaks in absolutes, praises himself on his knowledge of game design, contradicts himself, and even blatantly uses strawman arguments to make himself seem smart. All this makes it hard to believe he's arguing in good faith, and comes across as someone who wants to make people upset because he knows it gets views.

@floridamangaming2453

Жыл бұрын

Same

@Anonymous-73

Жыл бұрын

It doesn’t matter how good someone’s intentions are if they present them in the worst possible way

@Narko_Marko

Жыл бұрын

this is not true

@silent0089

Жыл бұрын

then uses a shitty joke as an excuse

@Brapgod

Жыл бұрын

Took the words right out of my mouth. Good job.

I feel like a lot of the outrage comes from the fact that he pretty much insulted every Ultrakill fan who recommended him the game in hopes he'll enjoy it for the entire length of his first video. It's one thing to say that a game isn't for you and what would make it better in your opinion but another to shit on people for enjoying something you don't who in majority had good intentions

@EreNyn3

Жыл бұрын

I do find it quite intriguing how he decided to once again go with a skit in his second review, when he clearly learnt that it wasn't the best idea judging from how the majority of people took the first one. I personally didn't mind either of them, but it's definitely not a good look when you continue to lead with something that initially had a bad reception to it.

@ActionBrickStudios

Жыл бұрын

Im a diehard ultrakill fan and I liked the skit a lot. it had good effort and value put into it. However for me I have a moreso problem with the rest of what he presents after. I guess the best way to put it is: bad taste? especially when you crap on a good handful of the game's aspects, and as I remember, state: "broken at the core" or some phrasing along that. now pair that with a joke skit about being kidnapped by ultrakill fans and "Forced" to say you love the game. it just really bad taste. And its easy to say he definitely didn't start off on a great note with the community.

@nerfstrikedanger3823

Жыл бұрын

@@EreNyn3 this I 100% agree with, the joke didn’t land in the first video so it was for sure not going to work in the second. but as he stated in his video addressing the drama, it was meant for a joke as of course, in every game community, or any, there are those fans that are represented in his first video. they refuse to see their game in any bad light and get angry if anyone says anything negative about it. as mayo said, it is not a generalization of the community, it is to simply poke fun and have a laugh. but in doing so he realized it was the wrong move as people did genuinely get upset. about his second video i am unsure on what happened there, either he knew what he was doing or he didn’t learn from his mistake. either way this drama is completely and utterly stupid… its a guy sharing his opinion, and poking fun at people, that is it, either take the joke or just move on. i honestly do not see what is so hard about that.

@tromboneman4517

Жыл бұрын

It would be way less dramatic if he just said “Ultrakill isn’t for me, but I can see why lots of people enjoy it.”

@ActionBrickStudios

Жыл бұрын

@@nerfstrikedanger3823 He did state on multiple occassions he likes the game. but as said in his first video (not word for word but close) "I don't love the game". Nobody is asking him to love the game. And whoever is, is just projecting themselves. And with the game being early access, his first critique fell on the 1/3rd of the game that was available at the time. I don't agree with his points. But the ability to beat the first act with just the piercer revolver and a few moves Isn't inaccurate. However It's tedious, boring, and actually hard in some areas like the V2 bossfight and gabe. (I did it in a discord call and clocked out during the gabriel fight because I just couldnt fucking bring myself to finish it with revolver only, no sliding, minimal jumping, + only dashing). However: It was the first act of the game, one of three acts- so I don't think it's unreasonable at all. At the root of it, Mayo just has this tendancy to go around poking a lot of games + their communities with a stick; whether with good or bad intentions. Including communities that can get very defensive over their games: Ultrakill and Elden ring / souls fans.

Under the mayo is the embodiment of “given the opportunity players will optimize the fun out of a game”

@textoffender3410

Жыл бұрын

that would imply his playstyle was optimal

@Callie_Cosmo

Жыл бұрын

@@textoffender3410 oh yeah you’re right, let me rephrase Under the mayo is the embodiment of “given the opportunity players will *ruin the game for themselves to make a point”*

@Blue-Apple-fc9eo

Жыл бұрын

@@Callie_Cosmo Or different games are made to appeal other people?

@Blue-Apple-fc9eo

Жыл бұрын

@@Callie_Cosmo i disagree with your statement

@TheCapitalWanderer

Жыл бұрын

@@Blue-Apple-fc9eo mayos alt?

i like how this video doubles up as both a great discussion on the mayo topic while also being a low-key cracked ULTRAKILL montage

@ED-gw9rg

Жыл бұрын

Honestly I was distracted half the time by the crazy Counter Coining, the clean Gabriel Axe Parry into Rocket and FIGHTING A MINDFLAYER IN THE AIR?! That last one was *especially* unnecessary but looked so goddamn cool!

3:53 casually frame-perfect parries unparrieable leviathan attack

@Final07

Жыл бұрын

it's actually poarryable but hakita put a blue glow because he thinked that it would be too difficult so instead of changing the parry frames or making int unparriable he just added the blue glow

I think the problem with Mayo's take on Ultrakill is that he played this game wanting it to be something else. He wanted this game to be Doom Eternal on a budget, but it's very much not that. I've had this experience myself, trying out games with a certain expectation in mind, then being disappointed that they're different from what I wanted them to be. Ultrakill and Doom Eternal actually follow very different game design philosophies, which are opposite but equally valid. Doom Eternal is a game that forces players into "the fun zone" because it is confident in the intended way to play the game is much more fun than whatever way the players will find. But this is something that will inevitably drive some people away from the game, because they don't want to play the game as it was intended to be played. Ultrakill has a different approach: instead of forcing players into "the fun zone", it points towards it. The game wants you to play fast, so it ranks your time at the end of the level. The game wants you to not skip enemy encounters, so it ranks the number of kills. And finally, the game wants you to play "stylishly", so it has a style meter that tells you whether or not you're playing the game as intended. The point is, one game _enforces_ while the other _encourages._ Neither approach is better than the other, but each will attract different people. Some prefer the freedom of finding their own playstyle, while others prefer a game that has already crafted a fun playstyle for them.

@justv7536

Жыл бұрын

I forget who said it but "Doom eternal set out to make one play style, the best it could," and yeah, it very much did a good job at that.

@idiotmach1

Жыл бұрын

@@justv7536 I think it was Max0r but I could be wrong

@frozezone2947

Жыл бұрын

Here we go again with this retarded straw man argument

@justv7536

Жыл бұрын

@@frozezone2947 What does that mean? Could you add something to the conversation rather than a passive aggressive comment to one of the sides?

@fuckso2342

Жыл бұрын

I get what you mean but wouldn't say they have completely different design philosophies in fact they share a lot in common despite the differences. They both share the same end goal in how they want people to play their game. Both games heavily nudge people to play in stylish fast paced matter switching weapons jumping around like madmen. The main difference with two is Ultrakill leans more on positive reinforcement in its early game while Doom Eternal leans more on negative reinforcement in the early game. Interestingly enough both games than do a reverse as they go on. Ultrakill in Act 2 really starts to lean more on negative reinforcement ramping up the difficulty and punishing awful play. Doom Eternal in contrast eventually starts really to loosen up by Super Gore Nest level allowing way more leniency and pretty much allowing people to play how they want within the confines of the game. While the challenge in the later levels is still hard with the increase in upgrades, weapon mods, ammo capacity, all weapons unlocked, etc.. if you want to play in a very boring way you can. Spamming 1 or 2 favorite guns from Super Gore Nest to Final Sin(last level) is not hard at all. Doom Eternal banks on very hard that the negative reinforcement in the early game will nudge people away from old fps habits of spamming 1 gun and playing in a very boring manner hoping that when the player eventually does have the ability to play in a boring manner they wont because the stylish play is way too fun.

I like his take on FPS games and desiring challenge in general, he's just so inconsistent in where he applies his criticisms and to what games, and he lays them out in an objective and unavoidable way that completely ignores the "this is my opinion" part and instead has the presentation putting them forth as total objective fact. He doesn't like being forced to parry in action games but he loves the Marauder that absolutely (at first) forced you to parry? He doesn't like arbitrary ranking systems, but prefers Ninja Gaidens end of level rank and its incentive to play better to Bayonettas rankings? There's a lot of personal likes and dislikes that push how he talks about games and what he approves and disapproves of but it NEVER feels in his videos like he's laying them down as his honest feelings. It nearly always feels like he's laying down professional criticisms instead.

@EreNyn3

Жыл бұрын

I believe someone said on his response video that "presentation is everything" and, from the looks of it, Mayo seems to agree with that sentiment. From here on out, I would like to believe that Mayo will be a lot clearer and straightforward with his videos and his feelings.

@EYOUTz1993

Жыл бұрын

@@EreNyn3 yeah I'd absolutely still watch him if he dialed back the critical nitpicking attitude, and especially the condescending one with game change ideas. He's got potential but he needs to realize that his attitude is shafting him. One of his videos I really appreciated was the Prey one, it was a fresh take (to me) on a game that I barely registered when it came out.

@underthemayo

Жыл бұрын

Ninja Gaiden got a C+ score and Bayonetta got a B-, so no. I think bayonetta's ranking system is better than Ninja Gaiden's, since Ninja Gaiden's isn't much at all.

@meidyot1672

Жыл бұрын

@@underthemayo not all games is doom eternal

@xx_amongus_xx6987

Жыл бұрын

It's to be assumed already that he is giving his opinion though, just like many other youtubers. Do we really need him to make an "in my opinion" version for every video like the RE Village one?

Great vid, this is essentially the same conclusion that I came to as well. Mayo's main argument of more mass appeal doesn't really work when there is clearly a large and devoted playerbase that enjoys the game as it is, and tampering with this core appeal would only serve to alienate those players.

@keyboardsmoosh

Жыл бұрын

Maybe this mayo fella ain’t so bad after all. I agree with this quite a lot.

@wonderface7131

Жыл бұрын

Thank you GeorgeBush420

@ChawedMirthPrattEnterprise

Жыл бұрын

I don't know whether "mass appeal" is the right word for it, I think "accessibility" is a better one. His philosophy when it comes to game design is that it's okay, and even preferable, to have more complex systems, as long as the player is taught these things properly, and through challenging means. The issues with his critiques, in my opinion, are that he says he wants different things for different games and usually it's not very clear what he wants, like how he liked the spirits from TAG1 for pushing you into using the microwave beam, yet criticised TAG2 for introducing enemies that do the exact same thing (the stone imps). This is on top of him not realising that there are different ways of getting people to understand you game; challenge can and does work, that is entrinsic motivation, where as something like a style metre is intrinsic and also works very effectively for a lot of people, including myself. I think people could also stomach his critiques more if he wasn't so long-winded, he stretches out his points far too much and makes so many unecessary elaborations; I used to be a fan of Mayo and that's what made me stop watching him. His script-writing desperately needs a touch-up.

@wonderface7131

Жыл бұрын

It's been a while since I watched his newest Ultrakill videos but I believe I remember him saying something about how the community would be larger and more people would buy the game if his suggestions were implemented. Accessibility is probably a slightly better word but it's mostly semantics at the end of the day. As for his script-writing and rhetoric i completely agree, I kind of disliked his videos even before the questionable Ultrakill takes because of his style. So many of his reviews felt like he was just trying to find enough ways of saying that designers should challenge the player to fill out a fifteen minute script.

@dustpanman2998

Жыл бұрын

Stairs exist.

I recently just finished a GMTK video that talks about how Shovel Knight’s checkpoint system rewards you with bonus money for not using them, rather than going with the initial idea of punishing players that use them through making the checkpoints cost money. Super good for beginners since they really need those checkpoints as they’re starting out, and even better for more experienced players since they get rewarded for playing well. That’s what unlimited ammo in ULTRAKILL feels like for me, where beginners can use the lack of ammo restrictions as a chance to get comfy with the game’s mechanics and arsenal while the players who have gotten better at the game are rewarded for not overly relying on the infinite ammo of a single gun via the hard damage reduction, P Ranks and, of course, really having fun.

@EreNyn3

Жыл бұрын

GMTK’s most recent video, right? Literally just completed it too, and I came to a similar conclusion as well; another factor that illustrates this idea is how the style freshness in ULTRAKILL doesn’t go below “used” if you’re only using two types of weapons aka during the start of your playthrough in the game, as to ensure players can still get high enough ranks to heal efficiently while going through the learning experience. If players are still uncomfortable with using tons of weapons, or perhaps *prefer* only using a couple of them, they can unequip them in the terminal and keep that benefit of style freshness not going down to stale/dull levels.

Regardless how *mayo* made bad ideas about ammo or other things, the main reason that enraged me was that his first review of ultrakill had a cringe intro, which he was acting like ultrakill fans are threatening him to enjoy the game.

@Wylie288

Жыл бұрын

The only cringe here is you not getting the joke.

@nothingcannon

Жыл бұрын

@@Wylie288 of course I got the joke bruh. Can't you just let any criticism go by, 'Mr. Woooshmaker'?

@chonkycat841

Жыл бұрын

But there is a very small but very loud part of the community that acts that way

@mongodroid4842

Жыл бұрын

@@Wylie288 and also him prioritizing making a joke that someone allegedly didn't get over giving actual examples cringe intro my ass that was the whole video

@thesnatcher3616

Жыл бұрын

​@@chonkycat841 Yeah but that still doesn't excuse why that section was in his video. He literally only did it so that he looks smart, reasonable, and in a way, victimized. It was to spin a narrative where he is the "underdog" content creator, going against the norm and being unjustly silenced for saying the "unique take" that isn't clouded by the tyrannical and childish Ultrakill fandom. This far from the reality of the situation of course, which is less grandiose, where Mayo is not an "underdog" content creator with well constructed and objective takes that differ from the oh so repulsive "popular opinon"("god Elden Ring, Witcher 3, Metal Gear Solid V, Devil May Cry V suck ASSSSS" wow you're so smart saying something no one else will dare say!!!!!! ) but more of a content creator that is stuck in his own echo chamber, throwing ideas that will never work in practice without fundamentally changing the game and sucking himself off, while everybody else can either just nod along or leave the area entirely due to his sheer pretenciousness. Kinda like Hbomber guy actually.

Most of the hate came from his unprofessional behavior towards his critics and nitpicking games. Examples are like banning or blocking people who criticize him over his takes of dmc 5 and ultrakill, strawmaning towards his critics in elden ring stream and lying to push his arguments further like sekiro/sifu comparison or gow 2018 difficulty.

@frozezone2947

Жыл бұрын

Doubt that ever happen

@Topside1959

Жыл бұрын

@@frozezone2947 yeah it did, there's videos and discussion about it. Mayo's been doing it for almost a year.

@aureateseigneur5317

Жыл бұрын

@@frozezone2947 Thers a 9 hour Elden Ring stream of his still on the internet, it can be found despite his best efforts, where he spends basically 9 hours berating his chat. Dudes a huge asshole.

@aeroscantsee1665

Жыл бұрын

@frozezone2947 he actually banned people from his elden ring stream for telling him to EXPLORE the game which is the core of EVERY F-CKING RPG TO EXIST.

His take on Ultrakill isn't the best in my opinion. I think he sort of missed the point regarding the balance of Act 1 and the Piercer. Act 1 sort of meant as the act that gets the player comfortable with how the game plays while being just challenging enough to keep players engaged. After the tutorial act of Prelude, act 1 is slowly turning up the difficulty dial and testing you at the end of each layer to make sure you've been paying attention to the games mechanics, as each boss incorporates techniques learned from each layer in the act with Hideous Mass testing vertical movement and dodging, V2 testing your overall skill with hitting a moving target while also testing your own movement abilities, Corpse Minos tests your parry timings and resourcefulness, while Gabriel tests almost every single one of these skills. This leads into why I think his take on the Piercer isn't the best. The idea (from what I've gleamed) is that the Piercer is meant to be a reliable fallback weapon for players to reliably use while they get comfortable with the game. This is sort of the reason why the other weapons have so much more utility and damage dealing options than the Piercers very straight forward approach to situations. The argument he applies to the Piercer can sort of be applied to any sort of weapon in any shooter, like Halos Battle Rifle, Half Lifes SMG, and Doom Eternals Assault Rifle (since I know the comparison is going to be made). This is part of the reason why I think he enjoys act 2 so much, as it is the game taking off the training wheels and is making an effort to challenge the player more often in an attempt to sharpen the skills they learned over the course of act 1. This lack of understanding of what the game is teaching, compounded by suggesting a system that goes against the games intended design to be more like a traditional retro shooter (when that isn't exactly what Ultrakill is trying to be), his pretentious presentation, inconsistent points and critique, lack of understanding of what the game is trying to do (be a stylish action game with FPS mechanics), and his borderline tone-deaf approach to reading the room by following up his poorly written skit review with another skit. I'm not trying to be insulting when I say those two skits he did are somehow less funny than an Angry Joe cutaway gag. I didn't think they were at all insulting, but they felt more arrogant to me. Ultrakill was basically the straw the broke the camels back since his takes on Sifu, God of War, Halo, Devil May Cry, and Elden Ring was already grinding peoples gears, and the changes he purposed are things Hakita has already dismissed. If I recall, I think Hakita addressed infinite ammo kinda like this... "Limited ammo in Ultrakill would be like if Dante's sword had durability in Devil May Cry. The game would be incentivizing efficient play over stylish play." However, if I were Hakita and I was being held at gunpoint and forced to add some sort of ammo management system to Ultrakill, it would be a pretty bad idea to tie it to the style meter. I would instead link it to weapon freshness, where if a weapon will stop firing when it grows Dull. At the end of the day, I think Ultrakill is totally fine as is, and Mayo's critique on the game should be taken with a grain of salt since it's clear the game isn't what he thinks it's trying to be. This is where I think it's kinda wrong to compare Ultrakill to Doom Eternal since the two are very fundamentally different games. He made mention that he was recommended Ultrakill since he loved Doom Eternal so much, and likely had some weird expectations when playing Ultrakill.

I think in general he's a fairly competent player with decent ideas for game design, however he has a lot of self-assurance that people find off-putting. Both of his pre-review skits for Ultrakill reviews 1 and 2 are likely a big reason people dislike him. It would be hard to have a good-spirited debate if you start and end your debate with trash-talk and mockery, and act bewildered when people get annoyed with you, because in between the start and the end you raise some good points. I think he's also an example of the over-rationalization of games. Some games feel good to some people. We're complex neuron systems, but Mayo likes to act like his enjoyment or dislike of game X or Y can be fully explained in objectivist terms. Lastly, I don't think that Mayo is strongly motivated by intrinsic goals. Style is almost completely intrinsic, and Mayo seems to only desire games which force the player to do X actions, or else fail. Doom Eternal does not have as much tech beyond quickswapping, but demands that players use every weapon they have for at least some parts of fights, whereas Ultrakill has more depth within weapons but leaves room for player experimentation, or lack thereof.

@noobeternal9718

Жыл бұрын

He likes his games to implement negative reinforcement and punishment (deaths) as a way of teaching the player, so you can feel that your choices matter. That'll work for people with extrinsic motivation (beating the arena/level) as you say, but some of us have intrinsic motivation as well and want to do the fun stuff just because it's fun. That's why Ultrakill has worked for me. And it's not a matter of yes/no, black/white, player preference and which kind of reinforcement a game philosophy takes are on a spectrum. Ultrakill will kill you plenty of times if you disengage much, it's not freestyling either, it's just not as punishing as Doom Eternal. Each game has its strengths and weaknesses, Doom Eternal being my favorite game ever is also flawed, I'd say it's a bloated mess of mechanics while Ultrakill feels more lean and (as you say) has waaaay deeper tech. In the end Doom Eternal is my fave because I love the resource management but I understand that Ultrakill wouldn't benefit from it, so infinite ammo is a good call for that specific game.

@burneraccount7831

Жыл бұрын

I've always viewed this as "spoonfeeding the challenge", like ubisoft objective markers.

@Dantexshadows

Жыл бұрын

"I think he's also an example of the over-rationalization of games." More like "Over-analyzation of games", but I agree with a lot of what you said here.

@SenyiKimmo

Жыл бұрын

@@noobeternal9718 "not as punishing as doom eternal" _yet,_ we're only at the half-hardest difficulties. If you wanna compare to DE, try difficulties like hurt me plenty as your frame of reference.

@noobeternal9718

Жыл бұрын

@@SenyiKimmo fair point.

I would say the thing that really rubbed me the wrong way in his review was when he displayed a superiority complex while looking down at ultrakill players, that's not having an opinion, that's being an ass. "oh stop crying, are you hurt by words?" No, just than it's a valid critic of this dude instead of just "ho you hate him because he don't see the game the same way as you" The moment I'm speaking of is when he said he was "confused" about the difficulty spike asking if ultrakill players wanted an easy game or a hard game, and then put a very condensing phrase painting ultrakill players as babies who would like to have immobile ennemies that don't attack just so they can do stylish combo. Because in his brain apparently style is completly incompatible with difficulty.... so rather than rationalizing Ultrakill players may have a different approach of the game he decided to rationalize they must be afraid of difficulty and that's why they like the possibility to be stylish

@digivagrant

Жыл бұрын

That most painful thing about that is that he claims he's only playing a bit to make the video "funny". only ended up kicking the hornet's nest.

My gripes with Mayo are: 1. Presentation He really does not present his views very well. They really seem like he is presenting them as nothing more but pure, objective facts. He also tends to put big emphasis on the things he does not like about games he reviews more than the positive things. Most reviews consist of putting the good things first then the bad thing last. But in the case of Mayo, the negatives tend to be in the spotlight more than the positives and when it comes to negatives, he really sometimes sounds like he is whining more than actually giving legitimates criticisms or presenting his views. 2. Inconsistency with his views and being narrow minded It has been said before, but I'll say it again, he would say that he likes some mechanic in the one game, but doesn't like that very mechanic in the other game for some reason. As for him being narrow minded, it wouldn't be such a big deal if he wasn't so vocal about some changes which, like said in the video, clash with both the creators vision and the fanbase, but also tend to just not work at all if you really think about it. While some things he proposes are kinda good, they sometimes seem like a bit out of place to me, in a sense that it would be an interesting mechanic or improvement, just not in the game he wants said mechanic or change to be in. Also, he perhaps should stick to games with the design phylosophy that he likes rather than something that he both isn't an expert at and simply does not like. 3. General behaviour This mostly refers to him mocking some fanbases and generally how he responds to some comments on his videos regarding his views, which are in the eyes of most people, him acting like an asshole. Overall, Mayo should make changes in his style of reviewing because it just is not good. It works, sure, but it is not good in my opinion.

@keeparguing611

Жыл бұрын

your first point is 100% true, because mayo already knows about it in some way. in his RE village video a lot of people complained that his was mixing up his personal opinions vs what would be factually good for the game, and then he made another RE village video where it was basically the previous video but he added "in my opinion" in places where a given thing he liked or disliked is a opinion if a lot of people have trouble distinguishing between what is a reviewer's personal like and dislikes and what is a factual fault that they believe everyone would be happy about if it got changed, then chances are the reviewer needs work on their presentation to buildup on your 2nd point i believe mayo has praised doom eternal for breaking new molds and not catering to mass appeal by making it similar to mil-sim/loot shooter, and yet in his ultrakill "more people will enjoy" was emphasized more than dev vision being preserved or creating something new or unique. i bet there are more fps where ammo management is important/crucial than where you have infinite ammo

@Rorybabory

Жыл бұрын

@@keeparguing611 He has stated multiple times in recent videos that he doesn't want to mess with the core gameplay of ultrakill, just improve the learning curve so more people can enjoy the core gameplay that him and the ultrakill fans enjoy.

@palmabolp

Жыл бұрын

@@Rorybabory Yeah, did state that he doesnt want to change its core gameplay, but after saying that he wanted to change it drastically by adding ammo boxes, regenerating ammo or faster cooldowns. While he did say that he would be content with those being optional game modes, he would still want those to be a core part of ultrakill. Wheter or not what he said in his recent videos is him trying to save face or a genuent change of opinion is up to others to decide for themselves. As for the learning curve, i think its good enough on its own. The only thing i would add is a nudge for more experimentation by the player. While it is fun and amazing to discover all the stuff you could do by mere accident or experimentation by yourself, i think at least a text box somewhere in the game that would go in the lines of "go experiment with weapons as they can interact with each other" could benefit the game and encourage experimentation futher in newer players. One thing worth mentioning is the reason why mayo thinks its not good is because he thinks that the average player isnt going to use other weapons when the player gets them, despite the fact that said weapons are more effective in the things the player is being thrown later down the line than the default piercer.

@aureateseigneur5317

Жыл бұрын

@@Rorybabory Then how come all of his ideas to change the game change the core gameplay of the game?? Adding ammo changes the game fundamentally.

@fuckso2342

Жыл бұрын

@@palmabolp His opinion has slightly changed as in he is completely fine with the unlimited ammo and has really grown to love the games combat. His opinion now is he just wants Act 1 to be a bit harder and maybe nudge the player more to experiment with weapons.

He occasionally has some good ideas for new games, like how in his dreadful Ultrakill review he mentioned an idea where a style meter regenerates ammunition, which isn’t a bad idea for a separate game. And I do like his take on the Mauraders from Doom Eternal (probably the only game I agree with his points on) as they definitely got way too much hate at the time.

@cringe__6040

Жыл бұрын

whats the story about elden ring

@Rorybabory

Жыл бұрын

He had a charity donation goal for him to do the stream. The thing with the PS5 was unrelated, but he did raise a lot of money for charity.

@xx_amongus_xx6987

Жыл бұрын

He actually raised charity though

@hazmatbp

Жыл бұрын

he said in his ultrakill video that he would like the limited ammo mode to be a separate gamemode, basically fulfilling your idea for a "seperate game". Also the "fake" elden ring charity stream was a misunderstanding that got blown way out of proportion by clout seekers. One of mayos most recent videos explains the whole elden ring thing

@Anonymous-73

Жыл бұрын

@@hazmatbp I had no idea that was the case. That’s actually really sad.

When critiquing any art you Need to understand the intent and respect it. I've done some editing work on screenplays for an indie animator/game dev I know. My general format when I look at a scene is as follows; I'll write down what the audience learned about the story world and characters. Take note of my personal feelings, reaction, and occasionally my lack of knowledge of certain subject matters in his story. And last I'll point out things that could have been said better, scenes that didn't make sense or were a little contrived. This last part is the most rare. My format goes into things with an open mind and I try to respect my collaborator. Not just because that's the nice thing to do, but because he's leagues better than me when it comes to understanding language and the technical parts of writing. Under the mayo has treated things as fundamentally broken when they didn't suit his taste time and time again. It feels so reductive and childish to me. Edit: I do want to make it clear that it's fine to critique things from the perspective of them being fundamentally broken, as long as they actually are.

@xx_amongus_xx6987

Жыл бұрын

Well that's the whole reason for this discussion. He thinks things are wrong with the game, and it seems like you don't. And perhaps neither of you are wrong

The problem with Mayo is twofold. Firstly his ideas aren't necessarily bad he just presents them in the most smarmy, self-agrandising ways like how he proudly announced that he had 'Made Ultrakill Better' after the Hard Damage Style update despite that being such a controversial update that upset so many people that the Dev had to almost immediately tweak the system and patch in an opt out feature for the large swathes of people who didn't like it. Secondly he is very inconsistent with when he applies his ideas, like how in Doom he praises quick switch comboes as a great way of improving DPS and rewarding skill and reactions (which he's not wrong) but then completely ignores that the exact same thing works in Ultrakill and instead just complains about the starting pistol being 'objectively OP' despite it having the lowest DPS in the game. Quick switching between shotguns, Slab revolvers, Rocket Launcher and Railgun allows for some ludicrously high DPS in ultrakill that requires a lot of skill to pull off yet he completely ignores it for some stupid tirade about how the starting pistol is OP because it doesn't have falloff and has a piercing shot.

@hazmatbp

Жыл бұрын

He never proudly said he had "made ultrakill better", in fact all the times ive seen him talk about the hard damage style update, he's called it a "coincidence" and said that he "wasn't the cause of it" He also specifically stated that "the pistol isn't OP, it's just too powerful of an option to give to new players". Sure, the game can have all these cool high DPS combos that you CAN do, but if there's no real incentive for a new player except "style", some people are just going ignore all the fun skillful stuff. stop making shit up and get out of your own head lol

@SenyiKimmo

Жыл бұрын

@@hazmatbp Unfortunately the default piercer actually, mathematically, sucks, and the only reason mayo got away with it was due to his ability to utilize his movement abilities to narrowly avoid death (and i mean narrowly, he was at critical HP for a ton of his early game clips). That's not something that can be said about the average player, especially not a first-time player, and _especially_ not someone for whom Ultrakill is their first experience with this type of game.

@aureateseigneur5317

Жыл бұрын

@@hazmatbp Um no matter what you do, some people are going to ignore parts of your game. People ignoring the style meter from time to time isnt a cristism of style meters. Its an observation of where people are motivated. His entire premise is faulty. Also the Pierce is the worst gun in the fucking game. Its not even hard to tell its not that good compared to EVERYTHING else. His premise here is also faulty. HE ignored the rest of the guns for some reason and then made up some bullshit justification tat other people would to when 40 years of gaming shows people explore options for no other reason then they are there to try. The entire Souls genre runs on "Hey thats looks cool, I wanna try that" with its gear, weapons and spells. His actual premise is "I didn't do the thing so clearly others wont as well" that's fundamentally untrue. The vast majority of others will for no other reason then its there to try.

@koopertrooper7008

Жыл бұрын

the whiplash update was really good and needed but when it got nerfed it felt like absolutely nothing happened, if i wanted to id spam whiplash + shotgun to kill any malicious face or stray but the only reason i wouldnt want to is because i have dignity

@codex5949

Жыл бұрын

@@hazmatbp He literally said in his Act II video "You're welcome ultrakill fans, i made your game better." When referring to the Style Meter based Hard Damage regen. Which just presents him as smarmy and full of himself. His first video wasn't even that bad. I don't agree with his points but i have no clue what happened within the 1 month difference between his 2 videos.His Act II video feels like just him roleplaying as the Joker. "I dont play by the rules, ill finish this game with just the pistol to prove my point". It just went to the point i stopped caring about his opinions because his attitude is just so sour and he likes making his opinions the "objective, absolute fact".

Ignoring all the discussion, dude you are so fucking good at Ultrakill lmao, I never get impressed by stylish gameplay since I have done so much (200 hours), but your style looks so effortlessly stylish, it's awesome, I'll be stealing some tricks

This is an interesting way of looking at this. My thinking was that Mayo has issues with Ultrakill due to it working off of positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement in the way that his favorite games do.

@colbyboucher6391

Жыл бұрын

This is literally it. He's thoroughly convinced that if negative reinforcement isn't involved, it objectively sucks. I like negative reinforcement too, I like when I get my ass kicked because what I'm trying is stupid, but Mayo's ego takes it to a whole new level.

@codex5949

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, my gripes about it is him pandering how "new player this, new player that" while also advocating to raise the skill floor by punishing you for not switching weapons. Its a goddamn sandbox shooter, play the way you want. You can be stale as you want or do batshit insane techs and no one gives a shit. The point of the game is to have fun in your own way. But it seems he has a BDSM fetish with the game he plays or something that he cant enjoy it unless it actively punishes him.

I like your take on it. An analysis on why this style of his has created a rift with so many people.

I really liked this video. This is the most level headed responce I've seen to the Mayo Ultrakill drama, and I appreciate that it's short and sweet, and not just a 45 minute long video that's just Mayo's original video with the responder just pausing and inserting why he disagrees. Personally, the problem I have with UnderTheMayo, is that I do agree with his beliefs how a game should push you into it's systems, and that games that do that are better experiences, but I disagree that EVERY game needs to do that to work well. Mayo's rationale works best for FPS games where the objective is to survive and progress. Games like these have to teach a definitive right way to play so the player can be challenged but learn to have fun. However when Mayo applies this to Ultrakill, a game who's objective for the player is not just to survive, but to play as stylishly as possible, his guidlines don't really work as well, because the game pushes you for playing wrong in different manners. No, you aren't punished in that you'll die easily if you only use the piercer, but you are punished in how fights will be both very difficult and you'll probably only get C or D ranks. Resource management also doesn't really work in Ultrakill because the game is prioritizing you looking cool rather than surviving. Then there's also the fact that some games work great in spite of Mayo's standards. Half Life 1's entire selling point was that it didn't tell you anything; you had to observe and think on the fly, and it's beloved with one of the largest fanbases ever. What's unfortunate about Mayo applying the aforementioned FPS criteria to everything is that the decent criticism he does make tends be overshadowed and ignored. For example, one point I agreed with in his first Ultrakill video is that the enemy AI could be better. Schisms and Cyborgs I think would make the game more interesting if they were more mobile and posed a greater threat when getting close to them. But Mayo has made it too easy for everyone to say he wants all games to be Doom Eternal for these to be taken seriously now.

came for drama stayed for the clips gosh your rocket launcher is awesome

I don’t agree with a lot of his takes, but disagreement is good and even a controversial change can be good. But Mayo’s main issue is that the way he presents his ideas isn’t great, and when people point out why they disagree with his takes, he doesn’t put in any effort into understanding why people disagree with him and chooses to focus on strawman arguments made by maybe a few people.

@xx_amongus_xx6987

Жыл бұрын

He literally made two response videos trying to understand and reply to his critics though

@liammclin5722

Жыл бұрын

@@xx_amongus_xx6987 which were mostly straw men…?

@xx_amongus_xx6987

Жыл бұрын

@@liammclin5722 Not at all. People were mad about his ammo solution, so he made a video trying to address that. People then were mad at his Elden Ring stream and the way he "pushed himself" on the Ultrakill community, and then he addressed that stuff in his second video. What straw men did he make up in his videos?

@liammclin5722

Жыл бұрын

@@xx_amongus_xx6987 he played the victim by portraying the ultra kill community as a “hate mob” based on a few comments, rather than actually addressing the criticisms made

@xx_amongus_xx6987

Жыл бұрын

@@liammclin5722 It was kind of more than a few hate comments lol, I feel like you're purposefully downplaying what happened. The Ultrakill community was pretty defensive/aggressive even before Mayo made his first video. Afterwards there were a boat load of hate videos and hundreds of hateful comments on all of his Ultrakill videos. And after he addressed their claims in his 3rd and 4th video a lot of them became understanding. Again, what strawmen did he make up? What important criticisms did he not address?

The problem with Mayo is he can't admit when he's wrong.

I will give you this. This is by far the best Video that I watch about Under the Mayo. I highly advise that, if you want to criticize someone's opinion, do that with respect or without insulting someone in the first minutes. I know that for some it is an "art style" or a "this is how I do it" type of doing their videos. Personally, I don't watch any Video to the end, when they start by insulting him. Of course, this goes to everyone also Under the Mayo. The nice gameplay in the background with a calm voice is far better than insulting him or being petty and trying to pick on every small detail. Definitely earned a new subscriber.

I haven't heard about this drama or Mayo's critiques of Ultrakill but when he finally said that he thought UK should have limited ammo my chest tightened up as a Character Action game fan lol

I don't understand what problem he thinks he's trying to solve with Ultrakill. The people who go through the entire game with just the piercer just don't exist. If they're an outlier, they may as well not exist. No one is consciously ignoring all these cool weapons and tools and options and giving you clear situations where these weapons are both effective and satisfying and just ignoring all of it. He's invented a problem and sold the solution, and what he's solving is maybe three people playing this single player game in a way he doesn't like. Irregardless of the many other things to say about his ideas, that one in particular just baffles me.

@aureateseigneur5317

Жыл бұрын

Actually his crying about the Piercer created a speed running catagory in the UltraKill community using just that gun.

Under The Mayo reviews in a nutshell: - "I'm bored" (repeat this every 5 min) - "This is not Doom Eternal"

I was just listening to the skullgirls ost a second ago. What a coincidence.

Commentary: 10/10 Gameplay: 10/10 Fancy Railcoins: 10/10 incredible

I've seen some of his videos and enjoy some good takes, but I do like what you're saying about the idea of critique vs input. I often call it "outsized influence" where people with a platform and audience completely dominate the narratives surrounding any given piece of media, as their sentiments become so widely regurgitated and memetic, and essentially make it impossible for competing perspectives to flourish. This leads to conflict and resent from commenters around the internet, desperate to try and make a dent in the narrative and diminish the pundit's dogmatic mandates.

Although UTM did brought out some legitimate criticism of the games system, like pre-patch scoring system not interacting with the gameplay and hence can be freely ignored unless you're going for P ranks (in which case it also can be 90% of the times ignored, because how easy it was to get S rank in style), but overall it was hard to take him seriously due to delivery of his message. Surprisingly, if you antagonize people who like something, they wouldn't be exactly kind toward you, even if you have some reasonable criticism. But more than that, way to many of his takes were just wrong. He was hellbent on completing the game only using starting pistol to prove a point that it need to be restricted with ammo, just like one other game that he loves, completely missing the point that it wasn't Piercer that was carrying him through the tutorial stages, but rather abundance of movement mechanics that allowed him to dodge early enemies. He choose to not interact with the game to prove a point, and when the game finally gave him a challenge in the form of V2, he started crying that game didn't prepare him for that. You can do that same thing in nearly every game, even his beloved DE - just use sticky shotgun until it's no longer viable and blame game for allowing you to use it and for giving you infinite ammo through chainsaw, and when you can't complete something with that, blame the game again for not preparing you for that new situation. Moreover, if he chose to engage with the game mechanics, instead of proving a stupid point. he would've found that UK already provides reason to weapon swap, although in a slightly different way. Main damage from your weapons comes from abilities they're using, and they're ether on a timer, like revolver's beam and coins, or situational enough not to be optimal in every situation, like shotguns. Nobody uses revolver all the time, because shotguns do more damage in the close range, and nobody uses shotguns all the time, because revolvers are better at range.

Mayo's opinion is just minor issue people have with him, what led people hate him is his attitude to those who calls him out. I've seen him being disrespectful who genuinely question him and he either excuses it as a "joke" or deflects on criticism.

I disagree with most of this video. I do agree that the level of controversie is unwarranted but I disagree that he just has a strong way of wording his opinions. From the videos I watched of mayo I find his opinions to be, to put it bluntly, terribly articulated. An example would be one of his main criticisms of ultrakill in that it's not challenging enough which is a fair enough opinion to have but he then proves his point by running the entirity of act 1 with the piercer revolver while complaining that the gameplay is dull thereby presenting a subjective opinion about the games difficulty as an objective flaw. He's also not consistent in his criticisms, an example would be his criticism of the style meter in that it's too arbitrary which once more is a fair opinion. But he also praises streets of rage's style meter because the game pushes you to play in a way the game considers to be stylish while apparently failing to notice ultrakill doing the exact same thing as every weapon is supperior to every other in at least one way. For instance the revolver is great for picking off weak targets from afar, the shotgun is great to take down larger groups from close by, deal large damage to bigger enemies and to heal a lot while you're at it. The nailgun is great to set up traps and to melt strong enemies. Finally the railgun has 3 modes, blue which is great for dealing high burst damage to a single target or to take down several enemies assuming they're lined up, the green one which sticks in an enemy turning them into a walking health dispenser massively increasing survivability while also dealing a fair amount of damage and the red one which explodes making it great for dealing with larger groups of weak enemies. The odd one out here is the rocket launcher not because it's useless but because it's extremely versatile but also very difficult to use effectively so it's usually just a movent tool or a flex weapon. All these weapons are useful in different situations which promotes weapon swapping which the game rewards through the style meter as that's what the game considers to be stylish play, just like other games where mayo has praised the style meter. The thing is that I understand his criticism of ultrakill, he finds it not challenging enough which I should reiterate is fair enough but he presents this opinion like it's an objective flaw with the game when it simply isn't. With that being said like I mentioned I do agree that the controversy is way overblown, mayo at worst is just a reviewer who has problems articulating his opinions, people like that are a dime a dozen on youtube. If this controversy didn't get this out of hand I wouldn't even know he existed but that's also not an excuse for what I would consider to be some of the worst formulated reviews on this website.

Nice to see a video actually expaining why the controversy is happpening. I think its also because of the way he talks upsets some people, there's something in his tonality of voice that feels like he's attacking the game. Well done video, you seem to play too much ULTRAKILL because you're too good at it (also nice reshade).

@KillyRR

Жыл бұрын

True. Im still subbed to him even though his takes are just stupid sometimes. Man i hope Ultrakill gets a Console release. Exclusive games suck no matter the system :(

Wow dude! Gameplay is impressive! Hopefully one day I will get there! I started using the charged pistol for a long while but decided that I wanted to really learn this game and have fun with the mechanics! Under the mayo doesn’t understand that not every game needs to force you into their systems. Every game really comes down to the player if they want to engage or not!

this is the most sensible response i've seen to this ridiculous storm in a teacup

I wouldn't boil it down to something even simpler: he displayed qualities that make him inherently untrustworthy as a video game reviewer in general, not just for FPS games: ineptitude in the subject matter he's reviewing, obvious double standards for two similar products and something I can only interpret as willful blindness or premeditated ignorance. There's more small things but those three stick out like a sore thumb. I don't even mind he dislikes a game that I like, that's just how it works. It doesn't matter that I dislike his review style or the way he talks about video games, that has nothing to do with your credibility as a reviewer and I would still respect your opinion even if I disliked the video. But if you REPEATEDLY display qualities that make me unable to trust your judgement, whether I agree with it or not, that immediately makes your opinion invalid and untrustworthy.

Maybe this is a bit over harsh, but I kind of think Mayo's complaints are - at their core - somewhat adjacent to David Jaffe's complaints. Jaffe missed shooting the ceiling in Metroid Dread "because there is nothing in the game saying the ceiling was destructible". Confronted by lots of evidence to the contrary, Jaffe later said, in so many words "but I wanted to play it like it was Megaman because I loved Megaman back in the day, thats why I didnt use the game mechanic where you hold a button so you can aim up". Mayo seems to have similar complaints about Ultrakill, especially as it relates to limited versus unlimited ammo. Other people have mentioned it, but it seems Mayo's takes can be boiled down to "but it isnt Doom Eternal". Kinda Jaffe-esque I'd say. Not liking/finding fault with a game because it isnt another game is silly at best. There is no problem with preferring one way of doing something over another, one game design over another, etc... The problem is the optics of not owning up to that preference and calling the thing that doesnt fit their preference bad... *and then going on the attack against people who do like it* Whats funny is that in later videos, Mayo says that once he started leaning into how Ultrakill did things and *chose* to swap weapons more frequently he started enjoying the game more. So... even without going with limited ammo and even ignoring the style meter, Ultrakill does incentivize swapping weapons frequently. That incentive is your enjoyment of the game (and subsequently progression through the game, due to the v2 difficulty spike). I do wonder how his opinion has shifted - if at all - after all these months.

good video, 1 question. How do you get ultrakill to look like that?

@EreNyn3

Жыл бұрын

I use a post processing injector called Reshade. Check it out, cause you can make any game look fancy with it

@izperehoda

Жыл бұрын

​@@EreNyn3 hundreds of terrible indie games made me absolutely despise the post-processing bloom.

@eyeballqueenofrats

Жыл бұрын

"how did you make ultrakill look blurry and like shit"

@zanepidgeon4077

Жыл бұрын

@@eyeballqueenofrats i like the look of it imo

@eyeballqueenofrats

Жыл бұрын

@@zanepidgeon4077 i am so sorry for your loss

under the mayo probably prefers Best Foods over Hellmann's.

is the background footage you playing? lots of impressive moves

@EreNyn3

Жыл бұрын

Yes it is; cheers!

@lukelacher1802

Жыл бұрын

@@EreNyn3 those chargebacks were slick 👌

@tromboneman4517

Жыл бұрын

@@EreNyn3, you seem to be really good at Ultrakill.

I’d say my issue with Mayo is that he presents his very narrow minded opinions of what he likes and doesn’t like as facts. It’s fine to have very specific tastes, everyone does. But he often presents his very specific tastes as the “right” way to do things for a game. And at least from the videos I’ve seen, it often boils down to why isn’t this game more like Doom Eternal.

The man refuses to admit he contradicted himself in the style meter video. And every time he tries to clarify it sounds like something from a Terms of Agreement Service contract that we all skip. Then there is his "jokes" that aren't funny.

how do you get the game have bloom effect

I will mention; It's not only the nailgun that has a "reload", if you are to also count cooldowns. Marksman, sharpshooter, piercer, railgun, rocket launcher, all of these have some form of reloading through the use of cooldowns.

Man, the BG gameplay is dope. Kinda tuned out to watch it though, ngl

kinda off topic but are you using reshade for the game? and if yes what settings do you have on?

@colbyboucher6391

Жыл бұрын

Yes it's Reshade, he left a comment elsewhere saying it's mostly Neobloom.

@sapphirehesus

Жыл бұрын

@@colbyboucher6391 thx!

I read the title and I thought that the FPS community had an undescribable hatred towards mayonaise.

the style meter IS MY ammunition I NEED THE STYLE POINTS (SEE THEM NUMBERS HIGGGGGGGGH)

My takeaway from this is that V1 reminds me of Scud the Disposable Assassin

amazing chargebacks to be honest

very well done, great video!

bruh i was focusing on the video gameplay that i forgot to listen to the video 💀

Kind of unrelated to the video but how did you make your game look like that?

enchanting gameplay as always. very flowing

Why not have a little damage cap on bigger enemies so that on higher difficulties u have to change weapons for optimum damage but it doesn't much of a difference on normal mode?

I think completing the first couple of levels revolver only says less about the ammo situation and more about how a skilled player can get good enough to easily beat the first few levels with only a single weapon. Meaning the game works well enough teaching the players as they go and that players can get a deeper understanding of the games mechanics. You let a new player attempt revolver only and yes they'll die, you let an experience player do revolver only they annihilate most enemies with coins and charge shots. It would be like complaining that players can complete the game with only the feedbacker. They can do that because they've learned the game and understand the enemy and timing well enough that just the fist is enough. Similarily you could beat the entirety of doom eternal with just the shotgun as long as you use your chainsaw but again that says less about the ammo situation and more about how the player understands the weaknesses and strengths of the demons and the shotgun and combine these things to turn what is normally very hard into something that is manageable

That thumbnail goes hard af

The problem I have with Mayo is that if you put a little bit too much on a sub there isn't a good ratio between the meat and mayo-

I need this reshade preset my guy

i forgot to actually listen to the video because i was mesmerized by just how stylish this gameplay is...

Tldr: Mayo seems to willingly ignore how a game is supposed to be played because he simply doesn't want to play that way. Like trying to play a turn based RPG like it's a doom clone and then calling the RPG bad because it doesn't play like a doom clone. I feel like Mayo SOMETIMES doesn't look what the game is trying to be, unless it's a game he enjoys. Mayo isn't really that bad at making videos, look at all his doom eternal videos. He has extensive knowledge about Doom and gives credit where credit is due, and gives valid criticisms. He's even gone as far as call out reviews that he believes misses the objective of the game. But then Mayo will willingly ignore a mechanic simply because he doesn't like it. Take his Sifu review for instance, he got pretty upset about the throw mechanic. A throw in Sifu can be done on someone who's been parried or stunned. Mayo states in the video that he's not good at parries for some reason so he actively tries to avoid doing them, and complained that he didn't know that an enemy can be stunned by avoiding an attack and then hitting them, leading him to very rarely using the throw mechanic in general. Mayo then talks for about 2-5mins about how sifu doesn't do a good job at teaching players the inner workings of the game mechanics. This is an example of Mayo just ignoring game mechanics however, parries in sifu are vital to playing the game effectively just like how quick switching is vital to playing Doom Eternal effectively. Mayo could've spent the time learning how to parry in the game, or yk...coulda used his eyes and ears to see that enemies literally freeze in place when they get hit after having their attacks avoided. Just like how Mayo went after reviewers that complained about the marauders in doom eternal being hard, even though they're ways to learn how to deal with the enemies, viewers can call out Mayo for not wanting to learn about an aspect of a game and then complaining about said aspect of the game because he can't be bothered to learn it.

Honestly I can’t comment on the whiplash nerf because I deadass did not even know it happened till I checked the notes more

7:11 thank you, father Hakita.

Bro, i ain't even listening to your video anymore. Those chargebacks and the rockets are genuinely giving me mindbreak from pleasure

Fun fact: there's a limited ammo mod you can EASILY add into your game if you REALLY think limited ammo is a thing that should be added Small warning: It's a ####ing nightmare, as you VERY quickly run out of damaging options, ESPECIALLY in bossfights where there's no way to pick up more ammo

I also feel a lot of this comes from mayos common trope of "Games must force you to play properly" on top of the typical snarky gamer persona and treating opinion as if it were objective truth Why should ultra kill have ammo? To force you to switch weapons. How do we reward switching weapons? By giving you ammo to use the weapon you want. Titanfall should force you to use good movement. Why? Because the movement is fun. He sees the carrot and the stick and always opts for the stick, essentially assuming players will only do something if forced to. This especially comes out in takes like "why am I able to beat the first few missions with the starting pistol, this is boring", he operates under the assumption most players will just brute force their way through the game with the first weapon they're given if its good... even if they don't like to use the weapon simply because there's nothing forcing you to experiment with the new one. Essentially he represents a minority of players who will play games in boring but viable ways without any internal motivation to explore a game's mechanics, the motivation is expected to come from the game itself (This is not a bad thing, just a different preference). People didn't criticize his schtick because for a lot of games he had fairly uncontroversial opinions, there are other KZreadrs who do the exact thing but never get called out because they hold popular opinions. As for solutions I don't think he needs to start every sentence with "in my opinion", but appealing to the majority of players or speaking about how things "are" when its actually just an opinion makes him sound as though he thinks his opinion is fact. The snarky persona can make you feel petty and disconnected, it might be a good idea to dial back the snark when addressing criticism as this is your main interaction with your audience and it can leave a sour taste in viewers mouths.

I love Under The Mayo because of how he managed to be hated so much just by giving non objective opinions/reviews on games. The man gives zero fucks about what everyone likes and doesn't measure his words or criticism. He forces himself to play games he doesn't like so he can shit on them on stream and get more clout (Infamous Elden Ring Stream). The fact that he gets angry because he doesn't want to play a game he forced himself to play is fucking wild, genius. He lives rent free in everyones head, just search his name on youtube and you'll see people making one hour videos crying about him. He has a fucking %run named after him in Ultra Kill because of how much his review angered Ultra Kill stans LMAO he is the living encarnation of a Hot take. He has a talent at annoying the shit out of people. Fucking legend.

Back in 2020 I thought I was insane for critiquing Mayo's analysis style. Thank God, people are seeing it now.

Ngl that some gameplay footage right there lol.

Why does it look like your ultrakill has rtx on? Is it something i missed in the settings or a mod or something?

@EreNyn3

Жыл бұрын

Reshade!

This is the best Ultrakill gameplay I've ever seen ever

Also while this is on Mayo and his UK take the problem is this isnt the ONLY Community hes cause shockwaves in. If it was JUST this one then yeah its UKs Fanbase and situation specifically. But considering his Halo/Elden Ring/Bayonetta/etc takes have pretty much riled up their respective fanbases this isnt JUST a UK issue or a FPS issue. Its how Mayo does his videos period. The way he phrases and presents his opinions/arguements/etc just rub people the wrong way. On Doom he is spot on, mostly, but really Mayos observations are what Id say most could tell you about why those things work in Doom. Mayo just happened to be the one to make those videos and get the views.

There is no way Under the Mayo is as old he insinuates himself to be. He's a very dishonest and strange guy through and through. I think he fixates (in the true psychological sense) on the games he likes and due to the fixation, he must hate opposing games which are similar. He's probably on the spectrum (this is a psychological comment, not a comment on his character). If so, he actually might be as old as he says he is; explaining his behavioral quirks.

Never even heard of the guy before the video but I absolute adore the way you presented the topic. I can completely understand the situation, your stance, why he's "controversial" and why he may also be misunderstood. It was entertaining and written in a way that keeps you hooked to each and every word. You're good at what you're doing. I'm here for more.

i cant wait for the other 2 difficulties the game is way too easy for me

@fuckso2342

Жыл бұрын

Apparently they will be insane cannot wait to get destroyed hehe.

I feel like either everybody else is watching an alternate universe version of UTM, or my brain just doesn't work correctly, because I just *don't see* all of the criticisms people have of his reviews, and I feel like a lot of the people that criticize him just haven't watched his videos, or skimmed through them

I mean.... he's a Doom Eternal one trick poney. You have to be DEEEEEP into the rabbit hole to enjoy his hyper technical videos.

he is indeed below a bottle of maynaise

Wait I recognise you from TF2 lmao. Had no clue you had a YT channel

3:54 BRO THAT'S SLICK

I came here expecting a documentary on mayo 😅

okay i wanted to give my pennies into this video, but everyone with a sane head have already done it here so i want to comment on THOSE CHARGEBACKS dammmmmmmmm

controversy this controversy that that gameplay was immaculate bruh

I'm only three minutes in, but I'll leave a like now for the fact you can actually talk about mayo and his videos like a civil mature adult. The way a lot of people respond is more to just hating just to hate. Yeah I understand why people disagree with him, but to react like that is just ridiculous.

Skullgirls OST nice choice

He wasn’t all that controversial until recently. And for good reason

Damn bro you play ultrakill really good xd

Beyond his reviews, there's other legitimate reasons people hate him, such as his elden ring stream where he constantly begged for money from his stream, and kept playing only because of "donations". It's one thing to call playing elden ring suffering as a joke, it's another thing to milk money out of your viewers. There's more cases but honestly I'm too tired of his shit right now and am too busy removing his doom reviews from my watch history. For some reason he takes well intentioned people that only want him to enjoy a game, and instead of humbly saying "I don't like this, I'm not playing this or not interested" he blows it out of proportion.

@Dr.Oofers

Жыл бұрын

*Yikes* So he’s basically another “Theft King”. Seems like a well respected guy at the start, but the more you learn about them, the more you learn how frustrating and unlikeable of a person they are.

@Condred

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Wasn't it a charity stream for Doctors without Borders? AFAIK, the stream wasn't for his profit.

@torinriley7569

Жыл бұрын

@@Condred No, it was a stream to raise funds for a PS5 so that he can play the next God of war. Why you would fundraise for a game and a console you have no real interest in I have no clue.

@RazielBlair

Жыл бұрын

@@torinriley7569 So you can shit on it and stir another controversy to farm for views of course, what other reason could there be?

My man was just salty he was intellectually and creatively outmatched by a sentient red GoPro

You probably didnt see it since it was a relatively small stream, but Mayo went into Trav Guy's stream while he was doing P-2 and said, "Oh you're playing ultrakill, have you tried using the revolver?"

From what I have seen from him, it seems like he is looking for one particular type of game, or at least one particular type of boomer shooters. For example, his criticisms towards Ultrakill seem to be geared to ignore the design philosophy of the game, and for his criticisms of style meters, seems to ignore the point of said meters. As seen in ultrakill, it's main goal is for a score at the end, which later down the line, unlocks harder challenges, the prime levels. And this will encourage people to play better to unlock said levels. Combine that with his skit for the Ultrakill review, it makes me think he isn't there to offer improvements, but to do something else. It seems he wants doom eternal and nothing else. Exaggeration? yes, but it's to highlight a point. He seems quite inflexible with his playstyle. Now I do agree with the idea of objectivity in fun, as there are things that people will universally agree are ether fun or not fun. For example, no one's going to disagree that taxes are not fun. However, the my main point with this is that if you spend time on what you find fun and think about why, you can figure out why you find it fun. But to tie it back to mayo, his reasoning appears to be from a place of misunderstanding rather then genuine dislike. His argument of the first act being so easy is that he only used the pistol shows that he doesn't understand the importance of experimentation, which every other person picked up on easily. I've only seen this with game journos, as they have a complete disinterest in playing games and only care about the message of their politics. Thankfully, mayo doesn't have that problem, but he does share the same errors in logic. To sum up, Mayo appears to be the type of person that wants one particular thing and isn't too flexable in his playstyle, which I find mystifying. As I think about it, it's quite common in the game industry, as a lot of gamers also seem to stick with the familiar a bit too much.

The limited ammo suggestion is just kneecapping new players if they don't know how to do intricate combo's yet, like you're already having trouble shooting coin on cerberus boss fight, and now there's an ammo system you need to worry about.

this man is more cracked than a dropped egg. nice gameplay

Compare UTM's take on UltraKill with MidNight's You'll see the difference

Mayo's controversial on games in general not just fps and while I do agree his takes contributed to it is also the way he responded to others that caused the drama to spiral out of control. If the person shows no respect to others and proceeds to antagonize the people who criticize him then why should they give respect to him in return?

Mayo's review goes a little something like this: "Not doom = not good game." That's all you need to know. He compares everything and anything to the Doom franchise he "oh-so-loved". Whether it be a fantasy game, action or just a regular shooter that happens to fight demons- as long as it doesn't look or had a similar thing like doom- he will completely shit on it.