Thanks Jay. Your humility makes these episodes even better because you ask a question and give yourself and us a chance to listen to the interesting answers.

I am so glad I found this Garage. Always obsessed with The Vincent.

That wobble is very similar to what aviation engineers call Pilot Induced Oscillation (PIO). The brain the the mechanism fight with each other and attempt to continuously compensate. One needs to take one factor out of the equation for the system to stabilize. Early Space Shuttle fly-by-wire system was very prone to the condition. They actually built a time damper into it to avoid pilots getting into the oscillation.

Paul J, you are so right about 'counter steering', but way back (82?) when I first learned about it I was blown away and it saved my life many times over. It's just physics folks. I also loved the 'tank slapper' story. I was always told to twist the throttle. harder.

tank slappers have occurred on a Comet I ride when hitting unavoidable potholes, that advice about letting go or at least completely relaxing your grip holds true.

I don't understand why people get so mad about people putting modern parts on old bikes. better they are kept running. They can always be put back later.

@ldnwholesale8552

7 жыл бұрын

I agree to a point. IF it can be changed back by a simple unbolt like that shock a good idea but too many start cutting and modifying. Then it will never be original again. This on cars and bikes. As an owner of a mildly modded classic Ford with alloy wheels, better shocks and front suspension geometry and a 'breathed on' engine that has better power and driveability,, an economy but it can all be changed back.

I did the same thing one time leaving a party drinking too much, got on the bike , went into a speed wobble and fell over. Thank God the bike didn't start.

@chrisjohnson4165

5 жыл бұрын

I get into a speed wobble just getting out of bed!

@onepunchgeorge9251

4 жыл бұрын

Never got a chance to ride a VINCENT BUT at 16 I went 130mph on a Kawasaki Z1! O BABY!

The best motorcycle of the world ever engineered. I had one Black Shadow. Great....

Speed dampeners are a must for older bikes ridden fast. I ride '70's Honda cb750's and I always put modern brakes, tires, and suspension, it makes a huge difference.

Thanks, that was great, two Vincents at the same time! You really make the name shine.

nice upgrades !

Hey Jay, Great vids big guy! keep them coming. CANADA loves ya!

@ 8:53 "...and I met him before he died at a Vincent rally in Holland...", "Isn't that WEIRD!?!"

Very interesting and informative. Thanks Jay.

Woah that engine looks fantastic.

You rock jay! Diggin the bikes. Missed you last wk.

Thank you for doing these videos Jay ... I truly enjoy each and every one Peace Kelly

"...Chicks love the coil over suspension!!", LOL😂😂😂

After learning from my teacher that the high speed wobble was caused by the rider gripping the bars to tight. He suggested you either give it more gas or loosen you're grip, depending on how much road you have to play with. The one thing I do remember was never look where you don't want to go, because that is where you will end up.

@fredandmargaretfeyen5445

6 жыл бұрын

Claude Rains 8on

Driving a lifted Jeep, I understand the phenomenon of "speed wobble", or "death wobble" as we call it, very well. Just letting go of the handle bars accomplishes two things. 1) You're not on the throttle any more and your speed will decease. 2) It's an ingrained nature to try to stabilize the handle bars from swaying back and forth. So you are actually helping the wobble continue by "pogoing" or "sawing" the handle bars back and forth. Basically, you're helping the problem instead of smoothing it out. It's pretty much a geometry, or worn/ loose part, flaw. But these are the things you deal with if you love your ride.

Great episode

I never heard it called a "Speed Wobble", we always called it a "Death Wobble".

Keep it up Jay!

45 years ago a "Tank slapper" happened to me on my norton 750 commado. It's a Design feature!

whats up with the white Corvair just off camera ????

Get the Irving Bio! My Aussie Friend Billzilla, sent me his copy... A modern F-1 engineer could learn a thing or two from Phil... EVEN pedal bikers... Shear GENIUS! I MISSED my chance to build up a Nor-Vin.. Winter of 1969-1970 Whilst working for John Lovengreen at his Cycle Salvage Yard Tampa... We had a nearly new Rapide engine in a crate, another engine all apart.. And several Domi-Racer rollers in back.. Ex-AMA 200 bikes that had blown engines.. A machinist and a rack welder (neighbor) who would help with the conversion.. Then we found a Ducati Diana in the same emporium... In perfect condition.. Sanity prevailed!! BUT!! J.C.

Hunter Thomson wrote about the Vincent. Frist time I'd ever heard of it.

I find this interesting even though I don't know much about the mechanical work of bikes and cars..I'd love to be a pro in that kind of stuff

Thanks for this.. always good car films, but this was really grand. And your guest was fun.. I love what he's done to his bike, suspension, brakes and all.. had I Vincent money.. I would do exactly the same. If only.. sob.. Excellent. WF

@Art_ography_by_artnabart1

10 жыл бұрын

William Ferry Class Vinny....

@williamferry3096

10 жыл бұрын

Ang lwang Honey don't.. they'll all want in on it.!! We haven't enough bedrooms.. B x

I had a bad speed wobble happen to me on my Honda. It was so violent that I though I was going down so I took my hands off the bars to get ready to bail and it straighten itself out. I then proceeded to ride home and change my underwear.

The Vincent Owner's Club's 50 Year reunion was held here. Camped in the old territorial prison's main yard.

Jay.. Always cracking me up..lol

Claude Rains, you're also right on. You will always go where you're looking. When you see a newb run into a tree, you know he was looking at it.

Love it - would be great if you could take out the modded bike and give us some riding impressions - bet the twin leading shoe brake mod works well . . .

WooHOO, Jay's got a Stinger. Let's have a show on that please.

I only get a wobble when I do take my hands off the handle bars.

nice

Hi the bikes are great and by the way jay leno's garage rocks

On my H1 when you got a tank slapper you cranked it to get the weight of the front end. nice bikes.

@WarFivevyone

10 жыл бұрын

all bikes with loads of power will have this problem if no dampner is fitted when the front wheel is turned suspension travel gets shorter or longer wich ever direction the front wheel is turned its only equalised when steering is straight there are factors of the weight of the complete front end at the axis point the angle of rake flex are also factors in head shake or Resonant frequency amplitude is this phenomenon,

@MrCaferacenz

10 жыл бұрын

***** Nooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can guarantee that if you do that on something that that is unstable it will slap you all the way to hospital. I recently brought a 83 Katana with a 16 inch front wheel and that thing just about through me down the road the first time I let the bars go to adjust my gloves. I always needed a firm grip to keep things under control. My old bent and battered RD350lc that I had back in the day was the same and my new Triumph Rocket doesn't like it when its front tire is worn either. So yeah this may work for a Vincent but its not going into my bag of riding tricks.

@Bikerbob59

10 жыл бұрын

Well my first street bike was a 1970 mach3 and when it went into the death wobble at a ton or or so I was able to regain control that way. just my experience.

hey jay i think ud realy like the chevy venture awd model 2003 its real special i love it for life

People up grade lots of old aircraft all the time One of the things lots of bike riders do is changed things HD motorcycles know for. Old bike's can be totally OEM or make a few changes that improve safety performance like electronics and ride the roads with the newest bike build Love both those fresh off the farm stock and those with small changes or those total gutted and build from the ground up Thanks love it

Taking your hands off the handle bars makes perfect sense. The reason for the wobble is not enough rake in the forks. When you take your hands off the handle bars, you are both decelerating and shifting your weight to the rear which corrects the wobble.

@453421abcdefg12345

10 жыл бұрын

Irvin Hoover This is reason enough to keep your twistgrip friction tight, then when you let go of it, it will not snap shut.

@xTheRenegade666x

6 жыл бұрын

The other reason for taking your hands off the bars is to avoid excess steering input to allow the front to correct itself. If you hold on you're forcing the bars and can potentially make the wobble worse or just crash outright. Been there, done that... Not fun.

@tammyforbes2101

6 жыл бұрын

When we would do high speed wheelies on the interstate every now and then when we brought the front wheel down the bikes would land wrong and start a wobble so we would instantly bring the front wheel right back up to stop the wobble and try setting it back down. Nothing scarier then a 70-80 mph wobble. The first time I had it happened to me I remembered what the older stunt riders had told me and luckily reacted fast enough to get the wheel back up. In later years sport bikes starting coming with steering stabilizers to help with that very problem.

Jay, could you do a show about the bike once owned by Elvis in which a representative of yours found apart in a garage in Wisconsin during a yard sale? ... that you personally went to give an offer for the pile of parts... ?

I hate to sound stupid, but while I've heard motorcycle guys use the term "black shadow" before, I've never heard of Vincent motorcycles. Learned something new today.

@vector6977

10 жыл бұрын

It is the Vincent Brand but the model is the Black Shadow.

@ebookpioneers

10 жыл бұрын

vector6977 Are you saying that black shadow is a _type_ of motorcycle rather than a model belonging to a particular brand? Like saying "chopper" for instance?

@vector6977

10 жыл бұрын

The motorcycles shown are Vincent Black Shadows. They would be the basis for the early "cafe racers" of the 60's and 70's.

@ebookpioneers

10 жыл бұрын

vector6977 Okay; I misunderstood you. That's what I thought actually-that they were a model of Vincent. Being a guy that never owned anything more high-end than a 57 Cushman Eagle, I'm a bit motorcycle challenged.

@psk1w1

6 жыл бұрын

The Vincent Rapide is the standard model of V twin 1000 cc bike. The Black Shadow is a more sporty version of it, a bit more powerful, and the motor and some other parts are painted black instead of being bare aluminium

Very cool- super tweak to a classic

Taking your mitts off the bars at 50 mph on a £70,000 motorcycle takes guts, I usually 'feather' my grip to as light as I can and ease off a bit. I call it "Using the force..."😉🥴

does this guy that create the o ring for iss?

LOL Im not saying this doesn't work in principle it makes total sense but lets be honest... your lucky no matter what if you recover smoothly from some bad wobbles.

@ David G, to my knowledge you wanna lean back and drop a gear and throttle up the machine. hope this helps.

How about a hydraulic steering damper? WITH a friction damper to adjust.. Great if riding one and two up.. Remembering each setting SAME as with a BMW-Side Hack rig... A R50 my boss had.. lent to me on occasion.. Phil would have done one, I bet!

Nice bike. How much is it? Jay, you're doing an awesome job. I watch your videos continuously.

does that strategy to take your hands off the handlebars work on sportbikes as well?

@duroxkilo

5 жыл бұрын

yes, it's universal. the front wheel wants to go straight by design. just like the front wheels of a shopping cart, under some circumstances a wobble stars to develop.. by changing the speed of that wheel it regains it's equilibrium given the fact that everything is working properly on the bike/wheel. taking the hands off the handlebars also helps in the sense that a wobble can get quite violent and hurt your wrists in an attempt to control it.

Does letting go of the handle bars for any motorcycles (modern) prevent tank slapping?

@KelvinSmoke

10 жыл бұрын

Generally anyway...Ive seen an animation at a racing school that showed how muscle flex and the inherent delay of human reactions cause the rider to be part of the problem and in no way the solution. the gyroscope of the front wheel doesnt want to change directions and always wants to go the easiest way, which is the direction of travel. So removing any input from the rider, by muscle or weight transfer, the wheel goes back too what is easiest for it to do.

@453421abcdefg12345

10 жыл бұрын

KelvinSmoke Kevin you are spot on with this statement, it is the delayed rider input that causes the problem, take your hands off (if you have the nerve) and the trail sorts out the problem, and deceleration puts more weight on the front and causes the problem to get worst.

@aydinvideo

10 жыл бұрын

Best thing to do in a tank slapper situation is counter-intuitive. Twist the throttle open- hard. This shifts the weight distribution off of the front wheel (hell, modern sportbikes can pull wheelies in the first few gears just by going wide open throttle) and the weight then comes off the front wheel and the tank slapper stops. The worst thing to do is hit the front brake.

Can you please show the car , Koenigsegg Agera R

Dat speed wobble

These two worked well together. Too bad Laney doesn't work on other things so he and Jay could do another show.

Genius at work or was it play redesigning and learning about suspension. We need better suspension on our tuk-tuk in South East Asia. Maybe we learn from you. Thank you very big.

is that "take your hands off the handle bars during speed wobble" true? or are they joking

Small aircraft such as Cessnas have the same vibration problem with the nosewheel. To counteract it they have a piston/oil 'shimmy damper'.

@453421abcdefg12345

10 жыл бұрын

You can fit a small hydraulic piston damper, this works well, if you also fit tapered roller head bearings that helps as well.

lol I love coil overs but I am an odd woman.

is that white car a Corvair? if so would love to see it

@BubbaSmurft

10 жыл бұрын

Nope, Stinger.

Прекрасный мотоцикл!

Well, now you can safely ride at speed, just can't stop. The death wobble is rider induced, I have diagnosed that, at normal speeds very little input is needed to steer the motorcycle at high speed people tend to hang on tightly to avoid being blown off unintentionally causing steering input witch the motorcycle is trying to correct the harder you try to control it the worse it gets, loosening your grip is counterintuitive but necessary.

I love this guy`s videos, I even forgive him for having one of every fucking thing! The springs that the other guy said were softer, than the stock 200 pounders, looked much stiffer than the originals, the closer coiled a spring is, the softer it is.(metalurgy & guage being more or less equal) Tank slappers are sometimes due to the forks being just a bit too long, shorter by just half an inch may cure it.( tricky with girders, easy with most telescopic forks) And steering dampers are unnecessary mostly, if the geometry is right, the 2nd best thing I ever got rid of, after wife no 1 Another counter intuitive trick to scare the pants off you is counter steering, but that`s another story

This problem of what causes the speed wobble effect, and why taking the hands off results in a stable situation, is interesting. If anyone is interested, I can (probably) work out the physics of this problem and give a theoretical explanation. Or, it may be that the theory is already well known. First guess would be a relaxation oscillator like process.

The Egli Vincent is too nice, should do a video on that one Jay

@onepunchgeorge9251

4 жыл бұрын

Bumblebee, you learned about speed wobbles the hard way. It all comes down to road surface,weather,and frame geometry.Tires,etc...ive found there's no way to correct a speed wobble.depends on all these variables.Speed up?throttle off? Elbows tight to the ribs? Suspension at speed? I've 50 yrs.experiance and the ONLY time I crashed was on a lake road in Oklahoma..on a Triumph 750+Tiger on my way to a gig. Beautiful day my feet on HWY.pegs playing an EXPENSIVE HARMONICA.I WAS OK. THE HARP WAS MANGLED SO MUCH THE CLUB OWNER HAD IT FRAMED OVER THE BAR! HAPPY TRAILS Y'ALL!😎🍺🎶😂

@onepunchgeorge9251

4 жыл бұрын

Egli VINCENT? OH YEAH!

you don't want to know about my speed wobble mine was on a old dirt bike

How about a turbo motorcycle Jay? Like the early 80's editions. Seca turbo 650, KZ750 turbo, or the popular Honda variation. Thanks for all your great work.

Hmm, Never had a speed wobble on any bike - Norton, BSA, Triumph, Suzuki, nor any of my friends - Moto Guzzi, BMW. We did see some guys in amatuer racing get them at speed but it was more like 150 mph. Had dents in the tank after the race. Can't remember the brand of bike though.

😎😎😎

“Tuned” to your spring rate. Rider sag must be set before trying to set rebound and compression.

"Vincent suspension was so advanced" ... (30 seconds later) "it was a very primitive design"

@psk1w1

6 жыл бұрын

Both statements are correct. When Philip Vincent made his first bike in 1928, it was extremely unusual and advanced in having a pivoted fork rear suspension. Way ahead of its time. All Vincents got this rear suspension. It underwent little change over the years, but a rear hydraulic damper was added in 1949. It was made by Vincent themselves. By 2017 standards, it's a very crude damper design. Technology has moved on a very long way. But when introduced, it was state-of-the-art

I would like to see them ride off on their bikes :)

I've met chicks that love coil over shocks!

Notice it doesn't have one hole. It has a gillion holes...

Lithuania

Where is stuttering John

more about newer bikes :)

@hertzkot

10 жыл бұрын

same thing, laws of physics apply equally to all bikes - be it a Vincent an R1 or a Busa.

Dampening and suspension are two different subjects.

how can you not do a riding comparison between these two bikes? how disappointing..

This guy ermm, this guy ermmm, has echo problems.

it works because you take your hands off the grips and pray for jesus to help you.

...chicks love coil over shock!!😂😂😂😂😂.

Sells one a month .......... It s interesting that all the mods seam to come from every nation other than the one that made it .

@453421abcdefg12345

10 жыл бұрын

That is not strictly true, it is just that the makers of these upgrades cannot keep up with the demand, so they sell by word of mouth. No need to advertise.

Sorry folks, Laney Thornton died, and his spring / damper units are now off the market

Jay your bike is beautiful please do not fit one of those suspension kits that kit is non tuneable how do you easily adjust spring preload to suit weight of rider bike race track? coil overs you use spanners to wind the spring or hydraulic adjustment is found on the best coil overs available such as the Ohlins Rear shock on my Bike i guess the girls know a good set up when they see it on the vincent NEVER take your hands off the handle bars cut the throttle the Head shake/ tank slap will go useing the rear brake to steady the bike and if problems persist fit a steering dampner

@KelvinSmoke

10 жыл бұрын

. and , They are awesome, try 'em out.

@WarFivevyone

10 жыл бұрын

the black shadow is so rare and exotic where i come form there is no way i would modify a original like Jay's bike the kit no doubt would be a improvement over standard however Ohlins suspension steering stabiliser,s are the absolute best for adjustment for the vincent no compromise

@williamferry3096

10 жыл бұрын

Warwick Mahony No, not at all man.. Do the mods.. put the originals, safely wrapped, on the shelf, and away you go. Sell the bike sometime and the originals [can.?] go with the package.. Way to go.. a win/win..no?

what no ride?:)

That guy must've been stoned

@shawnfoxfirth9684

8 жыл бұрын

+lomparti breaking out in cold sweat and hearing voice's ya lomparti this guy is High ....lol

Flying Merkel beat vincent to the mono rear end

The Sir Isaac Newton Institute.

So he admits to dui

Are new Vincent motorcycles available like the Indian?

@psk1w1

6 жыл бұрын

No. But all the parts are available, so if you are very determined, you can make an exact copy using correct, reproduction parts. A few years ago, the Vincent Owners Club did exactly that

Not sure I'd advocate operating a motor vehicle under the influence...

@Gr8Layks

9 жыл бұрын

He wasn't. He was just telling a story, you nanny-state p.c. douchebag.

I can tell jay is a purist.doubt he will update it when he has other bikes w/modern suspension.

@Mike40M

2 ай бұрын

It's a good bike as it left the factory, so you can ride them comfortably as they are. But if you ride them much improvements make sense.

Im not going to ride pinion with this guy when he takes his hands off the handle bars

@psk1w1

6 жыл бұрын

If you are going to ride pinion, you had better have all the gear

Drunk driver stories from a weird looking dude

Generally, errr, I'm all, errr, for spontaneity, but, errr, sometimes a rehearsal would help. Errr.

I never liked the look of Vincent motorcycles. The seat always looked silly and I think that they were an over rated motorcycle. Harley is much worse of course.

@Mike40M

2 ай бұрын

It was built in a time when function was the main objective, looks was just about paint. Seat may be looking silly but it is very comfortable both for rider and passenger. Overrated no, maybe overpriced. But if you want a nimble high speed tourer, what other bike surpasses it.

6:22 it is longer

@heith85

10 жыл бұрын

6:24 but much softer

@heith85

10 жыл бұрын

6:53 but in the front it is even softer and longer

British is Best .