Two things: Yes, there are PowerPC versions of GTA3 if we jump to game consoles like the Xbox 360. Second, sounds like some confirmations on both the 6600 GT and even better, the 6800 GT just require flashing and a pin mod. I'll have check out used markets (preferably local) for old AGP equipped PCs.

@firstsurname9893

3 ай бұрын

GTA 3 and Vice City aren't native on the 360, they rely on the console's Xenon Fusion emulator to run the original Xbox versions which are x86.

@firstsurname9893

3 ай бұрын

@@mruczyslaw50 That's San Andreas.

@Knaeckebrotsaege

3 ай бұрын

If you're looking for a cheap AGP based PC, look for early-ish Pentium 4 machines (Socket 478, so generally around the 2GHz mark). They tend to be dirt cheap (if not free) while at the same time being sort of the in-between generation that does old Win9x stuff/games well and has driver support, but on the other end of the spectrum also runs XP and all of its related software pretty well, enough RAM provided. I keep an old 2.4GHz P4 machine around for anything considered "legacy", whether that's physical ports (parallel, serial, regular PCI, dealing with floppies, firewire, infrared etc) or ancient software/games that won't run (properly) on anything remotely modern. Plus having games run on physical hardware instead of relying on emulation is just... something else. Kinda like GTA3/VC in this video. It's completely pointless in its current state but somehow really cool that it exists and works... sort of

Getting a 6600gt working on a G4 really is as simple as flashing it and doing the exact same pin mod, but realistically you might want to try the 6800 GT instead, they're a little easier to work with since they don't have the PCI-E to AGP bridge chip that the 6600's have.

@dmug

4 ай бұрын

Interesting, I saw a rom for it. Problem is I don’t have an AGP PC and I’ve already blown far more money on my g4 than intended. Do you know what models work offhand or a resource for it?

@GendoPrime

4 ай бұрын

@@dmug The Mac Elite Wiki was a good source at the time, as far as the 6600 goes, I haven't done one of those, but I have flashed an EVGA 6800 GT 256mb with Dual DVI as well as a BFG 6800 GT 256mb with VGA and DVI, the BFG card had some problems with heat but was successful in a G4 MDD, the EVGA card I stuck in a G4 Quicksilver and had no problems at all, both machines were on 10.5.8.

I have no idea why I was recommended this video because I've never owned a Mac but somehow your delivery kept me interested in the very end, good stuff~

@dmug

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching probably not going to be the channel for your interests but glad you enjoyed it.

I love your endeavours. I didn’t get into the Mac until 2007. My first Mac was a Mac book pro 17in that came with Tiger but Leopard disks were included as a free upgrade. I loved that machine. Never stop these crazy projects.

@9852323

3 ай бұрын

Was it intel?

@tactik5903

3 ай бұрын

@@9852323yes, there wasn’t a 17” G4

@Mert_Dede

3 ай бұрын

@@9852323all macbook pros has intel processor 2007 model mbp has intel core2 duo

This whole process is exactly like Hal from Malcolm in the Middle fixing the lightbulb.

Thanks for sharing, I’ll have to try this on my late 2005 G5 with a NVIDIA 7800.

@Yabe_uke

4 ай бұрын

Heck, I'll have to try it on my G5 Quad with a Quadro FX4500!

@SterkeYerke5555

3 ай бұрын

Not sure if either of you have tried it yet, but GTA III has been running on my late '05 G5 with a 7800 GTX 512MB for a few years now. I don't recall any graphical glitches besides the car reflections being a bit weird. Performance isn't great on my 2.3 GHz G5, but it's somewhat playable. Way better than in the video. I think I even ran it at 1080p

@rickkarrer8370

2 ай бұрын

@@SterkeYerke5555 I did try it. It runs pretty well overall. It does lag in some places.I just wish I could get controller support working.

The Algorithm suggested your video after watching someone run Vice City on a TP-Link router via an external GPU connected to the router's PCIe bus. It's slightly absurd that something like that exists, yet there are no 100% playable PPC Mac ports! What the heck! But yeah, if you can source an AGP PC at a thrift store or something, it really is as simple as flashing the firmware with NVFlash on a bootable DOS floppy, then taping up the pins. Did it myself with a PC GeForce 7800GS. Thing is though, it ran so incredibly hot in the MDD chassis that a cooler 6600GT or R9800 Pro probably would've worked out better in the long run.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, I need to see if anything local in here has anything like that as I just need like a $20 PC to perform the flash, ideally with onboard video. I used NVflash about 24 years ago to flash a GeForce 3. I can't recall if I had a 6800 in my G5 that was a native card or not.

0:41 threw me back to the childhoods

@Kamil_Jumpen

3 ай бұрын

Same

@ajbrown218villa

3 ай бұрын

Scary movies

Not sure why this was recommended to me, I've also never owned a Mac in my life but the Bad Meets Evil reference in the beginning kept me here. Video was good.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

I appreciate this more than you know.

Love your guides!

Very interesting video! Thanks for sharing

Certain versions of the Geforce 6200 (much more common in AGP form) could be flashed to be a 6600

If it helps, I've done this in the past when it was popular. All you have to do is flash the ROM, no hardware mods are necessary.

Awesome video - what's the ephemeral guitar music you used at the very beginning and a bit throughout? Great tune. Thanks! Also, you should talk to Action Retro!

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

As much as I try to use all my own compositions, that one is like three loops from a library on Splice, I’d have to dig. It’s a lot of work, early vids I’d spend hours just making a song or two or sometimes three so now I’ll use loops downloaded off of Splice (a subscription service selling loops).

@PopoAU

3 ай бұрын

you talking about Scary Movies by Eminem???

@grantgoodman8415

3 ай бұрын

@@PopoAU nahhh that's a classic i meant the one closer to the intro

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

@@PopoAU Nah, the intro music at the very beginning

If you will check a news about running Vice City on TP-Link TL-WDR4900 there is also PPC and they was need to optimize those builds before compiling, and it's works fine with hardware acceleration

Random fun fact: some PC GeForce 2 MX cards (Prolink Pixelview MVGA-NVG11AL and MVGA-NVG11AM) work in G3 and G4 powermacs without any modification. To this day I have no idea why, but they do. No need to mess with the VBIOS or tape pins. This helped me fix a PM G3 where the original ATI AGP card had failed (random multicolored pixels in the image). And yes, it's quite a low-end card but it's cheap and definitely better than having a completely unusable machine IMO. GeForce FX5200s also work, but those require flashing the VBIOS beforehand

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

That is interesting, probably the first contribution to the Mac scene was flashing a GeForce 3 following XLR8yourmac’s forums instructions and typing up a how to. I funded my purchase by selling m my GeForce2 Mx. I never heard of cards that had dual bios

@Knaeckebrotsaege

3 ай бұрын

@@dmug That's the thing... it doesn't have a dual BIOS. I have no idea why, but it's universal out of the box and will work in PCs and Macs. I don't think there ever was any official Geforce 2 MX based Mac card either which makes this even more bizarre (because if those existed, there'd be a chance that there's accidental cross-compatibility between the official cards VBIOS and that specific VBIOS from those Prolink cards)

I loved my MDD G4, I'd run games through dos box and played The Sims 2 on it.

0:44 GTA III PAL 1.40 cover art. Not seen on NTSC versions as of the 11th of September 2001. “Video games until the towers fall” - Billy Joe Armstrong

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Hmm, it’s the version I found for PC when trying to find a boxed copy photo, which ntsc and pal doesn’t exist but might have been the European release.

If I'm right, the Wii U has a PowerPC chip too and GTA 3 runs pretty good on it I guess, so PowerPC GTA is possible!

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Yeah others pointed out because my title isn’t the best, that the Xbox 360 is PowerPC.

@edwinrodrigues8244

3 ай бұрын

@@dmug Oh yeah of course that one too, totally forgot

It’s very rare I open one of your videos and don’t learn anything. Once again this was not one of those occasions…

I had a flashed 6800 GT AGP back in the day. All you have to do is flash the card on an AGP PC, Once flashed, do the pin mod with tape and it will work fine in OSX. OS9 will not be able to use it, at least I was never able to get it to work.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, I flashed a GeForce 3 waaay back when using my friend’s pc. Problem is the lack of drivers with the best agp cards and OS 9. OS 9 with the 9600 XT crashes. It’s a weird one as it boots but I can’t click anything and it doesn’t respond to the keyboard.

I really do think for the geForce 6600 it's just that you need to flash the card and block some pins. There are tutorials how to do it with NVIDIA cards, I think ActionRetro did it in a G4 Cube video (it wasnt an 6600, but it was still some PC NVIDIA card)

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Thanks, I'll look into it. I must have missed that vid, I like Action Retro's work.

@axi0matic

3 ай бұрын

AR would have used a 6200 in a Cube.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

@@axi0maticI don’t have his budget, zero sponsors over here 🙃

@axi0matic

3 ай бұрын

@@dmug A 6200 should be dirt cheap; they were the lowest of the low at the time.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

@@axi0maticI’ll probably shoot for getting a 6800 as they’re about $50 but I need to go find an AGP pc first. That means scouring the used market. My G4 is a poverty version of what Action Retro has. I forgot about his ultimate g4 build where he acquired the ultra rare dual 2 GHz G4s. I don’t remember how he got them but I assume it wasn’t cheap. I’ve already probably dumped almost $500 into my PowerPC build which is waaaay more than I’ve made off in Adsense off two videos, if I make six more videos about it I’d probably break even.

I played re3 and revc on modern Mac, port runs awesome

Did you upgrade the g4 to ssd? That might help

I really want someone to rejuvenate the gta re project. I was actively checking in on it till it got taken down. Mainly I wish they made it to GTA SA before the DMCA claim and wish they finished REVC since I do get random crashes. RE3 works fantastic though and really nice to see a game I actually play running perfectly on linux.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, it’s interesting that nothing has happened since being reinstated on GitHub

@coolduder1001

3 ай бұрын

@@dmug it got reinstated?

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

@@coolduder1001unbanned or whatever, the source code is up on GitHub for the project. According to what I read it had been taken down at one point .

I KNOW THE SONG YOU ARE SAMPLING, IS ONE OF MY MOST FAVORITE HIP-HOP BEATS, surprising is underrated, because is from Eminem (Scary Movies from Game Radio FM, a GTA 3 radio)

@dmug

4 ай бұрын

Yup! Flipped the sample quickly to recreate it, "Want to make a movie? We got the film right!" KZread's IDing doesn't know if you make a cover of a song ;) That instrumental was always so fire, and also it's one the rare times where Em probably got outrapped on a track.... but also it was Royce. I remember being shocked when I first played GTA3 as they had Stretch Armstrong and Lord Seer hosting the hip hop radio station.

@DJUniverse3

4 ай бұрын

@@dmugOohh yeah, thats a classic, i mean, im still surprised that Rosalia and Arca (a venezuelan singer [my country heh]) are on a GTA Online radio station

i'd expect it to work much better if finished, I mean it works on a potato, g3/g4 is plenty fast enough to run it afterall the native halo for mac worked flawless on any PPC mac

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Oh most certainly. I imagine also the RE3 project being shut down also put a plug making the code more optimized as well. The mere fact it even exists is pretty amazing. Speaking of Halo, I should fire that up now that I have a half decent GPU, I don't think it ran on OpenGL 1.4.

I wonder if this could work on a PS3 considering its also PowerPC based and supports other operating systems. Its GPU is also based on the 7800 GTX, so it might even get better performance

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Yeah others have pointed out the Xbox 360 is PowerPC and such, I didn't get into game consoles and probably should have seen that coming.

I really doubt you need a better GPU, there’s no way GTA3 would be GPU bottlenecked on a 9600. I’m pretty sure it’s slow on the CPU side.. because it’s a debug build. It’s not compiled with optimizations.

@dmug

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, that was my thought but I read someone saying they it ran surprisingly well playable on their G4. Mostly I want the better GPU for a future video as it'd be fun to have a relatively maxed out G4.

this would be right up action retros alley or, this does not compute

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Yep, fans of both of them. I’m not quite as retro as they are as I am more of an Intel era Mac guy and a bit more software centric so I don’t usually think of myself as in the same league as them.

More playable than the definitive edition

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Graphics are improved in this version too ;)

From a PC perspective 9600 XT is much more than enough to play these games smoothly even at higher settings and resolutions, unless in this port it is bottlenecked by engine itself that don't know how to handle a card that is not supported there probably wouldn't be a performance increase even with 6600 GT. You can test if the GPU is a bottleneck by checking framerate at multiple resolutions, if the game works at the same speed for example at 640x480 and 1024x768 then you know that something else is to blame. Most probably the PPC code is just unoptimized because it is an alpha version and the CPU is too weak to handle that. Graphical glitches all over the place maybe are just the unfinished OpenGL code that is broken after trying to port it from original DirectX API, unless it is specific to what is happening only on these radeon 9000 series cards.

I wonder if one would have any more luck emulating the PPC on a high end modern machine, or if the overhead of emulation nullifies the gains.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Biggest issue is no 3D acceleration in emus like QEMU for OS9 and OS X is dog slow. I have a video on UTM though if you’re curious. It’s old but steps are still valid.

I got the reference. BUT there are only 5 songs in the whole game. It gets very annoying when playing this game for some hours.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Oh I agree, GTA3’s radio stations were pretty short. Still fun to recreate an amazing sample job by The Alchemist.

Kill Bill reference ? ; )

why on earth did you add those shots of the G4 in front of the beach? to make us jealous? 😑

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Just so happens to be not far from where I grew up on the southern Oregon coast ;)

Wild

what if you used the linux builds on the powermac G4?

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

I may get there but I have future content coming with the PowerPC and OS X

@nathanlamaire

3 ай бұрын

Linux on PPC PowerMac is a lot more trickier to get it working than ordinary PPC Macs, not to mention the GPU drivers. The doc that seemed to have some success was dated back in 2015.

Thank god I grew up in a PC family. WHAT A MESS

Sounds like it would be easier to just run the official 2010 port on a Mac running Mojave. That alpha PPC build is going to run like **** regardless of graphics card. The G4 CPUs won't help either.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Oh most certainly, it’s easier to run it using crossover too. This is more of a “what fhe hell is this?”

ok so look up the Fire GL X3 flash... its basically an x800 xt and one of the better cards you can put in this system... I'm looking at finding a x850 xt from a G5 to mod for my MDD.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

I'm not sure about the X850 XT in a PowerMac G5, if memory serves me those run hot so not sure I'd want to really press my Dually 1.4 without additional cooling, but those would be somewhat faster than the 8800 GT.

@aaron.sorenson

3 ай бұрын

well the Fire GL X3 I got about 5 years ago from an eBay seller flashing them works great no heat issues... the MDD is known for loud fans (wind tunnel) and excess heat. Most people upgrading at the time it was popular spend half their upgrade budget on replacement and extra fans to deal with this... that said I know many people put X800 XT's from G5's in their MDD's and have no issues... @@dmug

The 2010 version wasn't even a proper port, it was just windows version running through a wrapper

GTA 3 already expiriencing PowerPoint framerate. In the near feature, GTA 5 would exist on PowerPC CPUs, and it would crash just after the Rockstar Games logo 🤣

7800gs agp will work fine

As a fan of GTA 3 i approve ❤

I wonder how history would go if power pc wasn’t dead

AGP2PCI adapters exist and at least the 3Dfx enthusiast community is still making them

Use a 2008 - 2010 MacPro 3,1

xbox 360 is powerpc, and it can run gta3 via backwards compatibility

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

I suppose that is true that is PowerPC on the Xbox 360, but none of the code base is shared between this port and the 360 version

@xXTommyXx

3 ай бұрын

Yeah backwords compatibility to x86 original xbox

Dude you really didn't need to make it this hard for yourself when it comes to taping off the pins. Cut two small electrical tape pieces and stick it on. The thin part of the connector does not need covering since it does not makes contact with the pins.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

I just went by what I saw in tutorials, it was tedious but second time was a charm. If I do this again I’ll try electrical tape

Technically, GTA V is PowerPC GTA, since it's on Xbox 360...

🤙🤙

Maybe Dosdude1 can help Mod one ;)

I was wondering if Corpse Party could be played on a Mac like that

@solidnywonsz

3 ай бұрын

Corpse Party isn't a demanding game (at least it doesn't seem like one)

@lenadams854

3 ай бұрын

@@solidnywonsz it's not about why, it's about why not, then

I want to see Morrowind running on PowerPC using OpenMW...

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

If there’s a port I’ll look into it

@laurensnieuwland4657

3 ай бұрын

@@dmug I know there is on Linux, but I haven't been able to get it to run yet.

G5 ADC GPU's are compatible with G4 PowerMacs... you just need to tape over some pins

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Um, yeah I know, I did that in the video, hence the exacto knife and talking about nonstandard AGP 🙃

@aaron.sorenson

3 ай бұрын

shit lol, kinda stopped and was like no there is... still watching lol@@dmug

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

@@aaron.sorenson Ah gotcha, no worries. figured it didn't see the whole thing.

It looks like you used a crappy version of wine 😂

yes it should. why shouldn't it?

Peak framerate

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Enhances ability to drive ;)

Macintosh Repository is not worth mentioning tbh.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Why is that? It requires signing up but it's free to use once you do. I'm new to the retro scene, as in I lived through the era of PowerPC Macs but haven't used them since I sold my G5 waaaay back when.

@OlaHime

3 ай бұрын

@@dmugIt's free but with limitations; and while it has something not available on the garden, it's basically scraped copy of the garden + some addons. It's like someone would offer you a copy of Intenret Archive, but to download more than a few files/ more than 100MB you'd have to pay a monthly fee. That, and the requirement to sign in is nonsense. Completely unnecessary.

try sorbet

It would run better if you had conpiled it yourself with patch codez, rheres a video of a dude running it in a freaking router

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

People have linked it in the comments since I hadn’t heard about it prior. I saw the guy who made the router version, it took him months if I recall, and he has a Linux port to work from, so it was just likely a lot of altering code to pass the compiler. Likely he had all the tooling to make it happen as part of the project like being able to use cmake. The retro port means coding to Xcode’s ancient power pc compiler and porting to macOS and having to fix the lack of modern OpenGL. That’s a lot of work. As a web dev it’s just not my wheel house for compiled code as I’m working in the JIT world of JavaScript and python and not the free time to dedicate months of work sadly.

This is illegal

neither should gta sa on the iphone 4 let alone the 3gs lmfao

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

GTA can basically run on a potato, people here pointed out that a guy got it running on a router… with a GPU.

@nono-oz4gv

3 ай бұрын

@@dmug I just saw that video too I shouldve looked at the specs of the router. The performance on the 3gs is terrible though 😭, but the 4 is bearable if you're desperate lol. I just got my iphone 4 downgraded to IOS 6 and remembered there was SA on IOS and for some reason allowed me to install it on there even though it's not officially supported on the 3gs or 4 or so I've heard, it's not listed on the app store as supporting the older phones.

@agis43

3 ай бұрын

@@nono-oz4gv once i side loaded gta sa on 3gs and it was actually not that terrible, around 15fps when just riding bike

Early MacOS and PowerPC was actually a great platform for gaming. Had Microsoft not swooped in and purchased Bungie after they showed off Halo in 1999 on a G4... Things I suspect would be a bit different today.

Oh

No it was amd.

@xeneomorph

3 ай бұрын

No its the hd 3870 mac.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Appreciate it. At some point I’ll need to get a 6600 or 6800

@xeneomorph

3 ай бұрын

@@dmug Yeah, I thought I found one on the curb but remember it was all amd. Got confused sorry.

Meow

Apple has never been a successful company in gaming. Moreover, they accept it

just get a normal pc problem solved

Could you please place a seizure warning to this video

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

Once it's uploaded there isn't anything I can do. KZread does not give you any sort of tools to edit videos besides cropping out sections. I can't say I'm any sort of expert but I didn't think anything in this video would be a problem.

@J.E.Carroll

2 ай бұрын

@@dmug Niether would I as first but you’d be surprised me and my girlfriend who has epilepsy tried watching your video and she was unable to finish it due to the first minute and all the texture affects I finished though good video!

@dmug

2 ай бұрын

@@J.E.Carroll I’ll try to keep it in mind moving forward, thanks for pointing it out

@J.E.Carroll

2 ай бұрын

@@dmug not for me you don’t anymore we just broke up lol, sorry dark humor but yeah please do in the futur

Does the original person behind these ports have the modified re3 fork somewhere? If people could replicate the dev environment to get a clean build from source on PPC, they could potentially help to eliminate bugs.

@dmug

3 ай бұрын

The re3 source is on GitHub but not this guy’s PowerPC port.

@doctorweed830

3 ай бұрын

I pulled the latest version off of Macintosh Garden and it works really well on my G5 Quad with a 7800 GT. None of the graphical glitches here and audio works, but I do get random crashes and stutters/frame drops. It makes me wonder if the developer made another update recently or if the differences between our machines are really significant enough! Awesome video either way

dosdude1 would know