Hello you legends. Watch the full episode with George TheTinMen here - kzread.info/dash/bejne/nq5_ks5qfKiXcqg.html

@Kaizan27

10 ай бұрын

Yes boss

@lauralee6628

9 ай бұрын

women are 50% of population YET fail to support women by electing them (women) to government THEN want special quotas to get to 50%

SO happy we're discussing this without the immediate claim of "toxic masculinity" or "the patriarchy".

@joaquin67

10 ай бұрын

God, seriously. Every time I hear those words I just think of an angry parrot 🦜

@calumsanderson6741

10 ай бұрын

Was so disappointed the Barbie movie entertained the concept of patriarchy.

@anthonymurphy7875

10 ай бұрын

I agree,

@berserkerscientist

10 ай бұрын

The far left think "motherhood" is something to "fix".

@daivahataka

10 ай бұрын

Yeah but as it's 2 men discussing it you can bet that's what the feminists will use to condemn it for not going along with their narrative that the pay gap is real, as bad as ever, and it only exists due to sexism/patriarchy. 🙄😒

In Japan both men and women are legally allowed to take 1 year off for child care. Less than 3% of fathers take any leave at all.

@sjent

10 ай бұрын

Because somebody has to keep things running. If all women were to take a year off, society would experience slight discomfort. If all men were to take year off, society would collapse within a month. From builders to cops to sewage processing, they all are 80-90% male workforce. Women dominate areas like therapists, dietarians, secretaries. While they do hold lead in a few critical areas, like nursing, most of their jobs are mean to cater to other women. If not for extreme welfare and affirmative action support in the West, most of women would be out of job within few months.

@BigBadBossu

10 ай бұрын

Both parents cannot take even 2 months leave without significant damage to family funds even with government aid. Equal time off is not the issue, the issue lies in reducing individuals ability to earn capital with hefty taxes and regulations. Women were originally pushed into the workplace to cut the price of labor in half, now we've graduated to injecting aliens and immigrants into society just to further cheapen labor. This is the price of selling out to government aid, the price of taxes weighing on income, the ever increasing regulations. We can't have someone else subsidize our lives, we want the right to keep what we earn without sacrificing women and immigrants to a market designed to un-person humans for profits at the top.

@Sid00077

10 ай бұрын

Also, culturally Japan is very work focused. They don't want to be seen as slacking off for no reason for the fear of being judged.

@chrispekel5709

10 ай бұрын

I'll wager the amount you get isn't all that much, hence why men just choose to keep working.

@YellowMouse998

10 ай бұрын

Because in Japan its rare to job jump. The norm in Japan is when the work for a company you stuck with them until the end or you get fired.

I never thought about the social sacrifice that fathers make and how that impacts them in older age

We should all raise a glass to the millions of men who turn off their dreams, and continue to work a dull job, because risking the kids security is way more appealing than imagining the dream going wrong and ending up homeless.

@txdmsk

10 ай бұрын

Yeah. I have a friend who leads a construction team. One day a few years ago one of his workers fainted at the top of a roof and died in the fall. Almost all workplace deaths are awarded to men. Women can shut the fuck up with their makebelieve, nonsensical, comfy jobs.

@juliewarren2118

9 ай бұрын

Every time I see men working outdoors in challenging weather doing routine jobs, I want to approach them and give my thanks for keeping the country going.

@zknarc

9 ай бұрын

and often shoulder it without complaining about it

@swampy1234

9 ай бұрын

Not risking*

Women select men to a large degree by career and salary. Men do not choose women based on these factors. Men working harder for higher salaries is sexually selected for by women.

@Macheako

10 ай бұрын

Omg bruv, are you a rocket scientist?!?! 😂❤

@chrispekel5709

10 ай бұрын

@@Macheako A lot of us who watch a lot of internet content know this, but there's no need to be an ass to people who've either just figured it out or are trying to explain it to others who aren't as educated

@PattisKarriereKarten

10 ай бұрын

Personally I never asked a date how much he earned. He should have a job yes, but that only shows the he’s responsible. I have a very good salary myself. Don’t need the man to earn this or that.

@fatmonkey4716

10 ай бұрын

​@@PattisKarriereKartenYour anecdotal evidence does not invalidate the facts.

@madaxwayne

10 ай бұрын

@@PattisKarriereKarten that may be the case but it wont be for long if you settle down and decide to have kids so it actually would be the smart thing to do discount your own salary however high and calculate whether or not your partner could be provide without your input

I don't comment too much on KZread but what a fantastic clip of a calm, rational and insightful discussion about this issue. I'm off to find the full episode of this...

The frustrating thing about this subject is that what caused the pay gap was already clear *in the late 1960s* You can find a clip here on YT with a very young Thomas Sowell were he calmly explains during a discussion pannel on TV that the data showed even back then that women with equal education and occupation who never marry (which back then was pretty much synonymous with having children) are paid the same as their male peers over the same period of time.

@pmberkeley

10 ай бұрын

Okay, but women do the reproductive labor - actual labor - in society and they get no money for that? That's ridiculous. The idea that women's labor is not worthy of rumenetation because it isn't men's labor is the problem.

@fred6907

9 ай бұрын

It's an EARNINGS gap, has zero to do with pay in the first place. Men earn more on average for multiple reasons: More hours, more likely to move, more likely to take on dangerous jobs etc. The biggest reason is interest. Men are more interested in things (STEM field is a good example), while women tend towards people (healthcare etc). There is not a job in existence that pays a man more than a woman for the exact same job in the same company for the exact same hours....if you take into account experience, certifications and so on.

@bobross1829

9 ай бұрын

@@fred6907 Yep, I have been in a zillion projects and hired and never once, ever, has anyone ever said "gee, let's offer the girl less money" for the same job a guy and a girl applied for. No one even once brought it up, and I worked with some real um, characters. It is something that just does not exist. In fact, sadly the opposite was true, if a girl was very "good looking", some um, characters wanted to hire her just because of that and would want to pay her MORE to get her to take the job.

@bobross1829

9 ай бұрын

Also, I said it in another post, but yes this issue has been debunked for 60 years! It is not a factual issue but a religious belief among far left feminists. Nothing you can say will dissuade them from it as they "want" it to be true.

@simmorg290

9 ай бұрын

I don't know where you live but in the UK it's different. To do with your comment and what fred6907 said here in the UK the median hourly pay for men and women in their 20s and 30s is the same. The fact that men do dangerous jobs, are more likely to move and so on makes no difference. The only reason that men earn more is that on average they work more hours.

"Penalty?" "Solution?" Why does a CHOICE require a SOLUTION?

@mylesleggette7520

9 ай бұрын

Because the concept of agency does not apply to women in a progressive feminist worldview. They don't believe they have the ability to make choices, but are instead 'forced' into 'roles' by an oppressive society.

_"Why are women not working in engineering? Why are women not working in STEM?"_ Nobody asks, "Why are women not working in plumbing, welding, and deep sea oil drilling?"

@diomedea29

5 ай бұрын

Because science and engineering jobs are not necessarily physically demanding and men are not clearly better at them. But yes, if we are optimising for equality, why not ask this question? Also, coming back to my point, why don’t people ask why men don’t work in healthcare or education? Men could be equally good at those jobs.

@billbadson7598

5 ай бұрын

@@diomedea29 _"science and engineering jobs are not necessarily physically demanding and men are not clearly better at them."_ Hard disagree. Males are clearly better systematizers from a very young age, and this translates into better outcomes in engineering and science.

Completely anecdotal, but my wife and I had 12 weeks to split. She took 8 and I took 4, and that also got her through the summer so it gave her 5 months in all. But if she needed 11 and me 1, I’d take 1. Im pretty sure most families would do things how we did as well.

@mylesg7278

10 ай бұрын

Not completely anecdotal, it perfectly displays the male/female dynamic and your prioritisation. I would do the same if it came to it, most decent men would.

@RyanLongArt

9 ай бұрын

Of course they would. Even if you offered everything equally to both sexes, women would still take more time off and there would still be a supposed "gap". Yes some couples would do it the other way around where the father plays more of a stay-at-home role. They will not be in the majority. And this is all perfectly normal. There's nothing wrong with it. Fighting it is futile, and there's no unfair discrimination in our basic gender differences, feminists need to get over it and stop fighting reality already.

@simmorg290

9 ай бұрын

I didn't get that point in the video. The pay gap for women in their 40s and 50s isn't because of how 12 weeks of parental leave is split. It's because stay at home mums are out of the workforce for 15 years or whatever while men are progressing in their careers. Women won't be able to return to the same point in their career as if they'd never been away.

@petrmaly9087

9 ай бұрын

I'm a worker in a lab, my wife is a manager. There was a legal option for me to go on parental leave instead of her, but there was no question as she naturally wanted to be home with kids. She went on parental leave and I kept working with overtimes. And parental leave here lasts 3 years. For each child. I only got obligatory 2 weeks mostly to help her.

@MomoSimone22

9 ай бұрын

​@@simmorg290the point is that women would want more leave, and then they'd also likely make different choices from then on to continue caring for their children, thus keeping them in a position to earn less. If they decide to join the workforce full-time again, they will have less experience than men their age who continued to work with no breaks from their career, therefore, they are likely to earn less at an older age. This isn't always the case, but it really depends on which industry they work in.

There was an interesting study about dentists in Canada I think, which had the biggest gap out of any industry and this started 4-5 years out of university i.e. before kids even usually came into the picture. Turned out that male dentists tended to 1) work more hours 2) get through more patients in a day and 3) tended to own or buy into a practice more than women. Women worked less hours (on average), tended to spend more time with patients and often worked for community or public hospitals.

@stevenponte6655

9 ай бұрын

pretty much!@@klake3580

@mylesleggette7520

9 ай бұрын

@@klake3580 It's not even that they're forced to, they usually *choose* to.

I just ask feminists 'do you think a woman working 90 hours a week as a heart surgeon should make as much as a man working 35 hours as a janitor?' Then ask "Why?" They will debunk the wage gap for you without realizing it.

@sjent

10 ай бұрын

Well, it all always flows only one way. For as long as they can spin bullshit as something detrimental to women, they will keep on doing it. It is all about supremacy, not equality. Spousal support is a completely outdated concept, but since women receive over 90% of this money, you wont hear a pip from feminists.

@Grimmlocked

10 ай бұрын

Except your arguing logic against emotion. They don’t care

@arminxvs3372

10 ай бұрын

Facts! But they will still spin it being like: "Yeah but the male surgeon will earn more so the Gap is still there." Logic does not work with them.

@FourthExile

10 ай бұрын

I'd like to be more optimistic but scenarios like this usually (not always, I presume) result in the other person just strawmanning the 'why'. It's an easy way to dodge the logic without giving up any ground. "Society tells them what to think" is the usual answer. I suppose it speaks to a deeper philosophical issue on whether you believe humans are stupid/easily manipulated or not. Either way I don't think they care, it feels good to 'fight the patriarchy', it's good enough for them and anybody that says otherwise is merely a wet rag.

@sjent

10 ай бұрын

@@FourthExile _"Society tells them what to think" is the usual answer._ Its called abjuration of responsibility. When a man fucks up, it is his fault and his alone. When a women fucks up, then it is either mans fault or, if it cant be piled a guy, then it is "society" fault. You can see this attitude everywhere, especially in legal system. Nobody tells them what to think, but then how they can shift blame on somebody else for their (bad)decisions.

As the primary earner for my family of 4 I’ve never felt more validated. And it wasn’t at the cost of women or some patronization. I’ve struggled with explaining and communicating this information effectively and you’ve done it beautifully. Thanks to both of you.

I have never seen Chris laugh so hard. Nice clip, Chris!

great discussion 👍

The pay gap is a good thing. It's a result of having choices. To eliminate the gap, you must eliminate the choices. This is really, really simple logic.

@txdmsk

10 ай бұрын

Exactly. The same thing about wealth distribution.

@simmorg290

9 ай бұрын

Here in the UK the choice of job makes no difference. Men and women in their 20s and 30s have the same median hourly wage despite doing different jobs.

@Ridingrules10000

9 ай бұрын

@@simmorg290, which is inherently unfair...

@simmorg290

9 ай бұрын

@@Ridingrules10000 Why is that unfair? People do different jobs some earn more some earn less I don't know why that's unfair on men.

@Ridingrules10000

9 ай бұрын

@simmorg290 , "men and women in their 20's and 30's have the same median hourly wage despite doing different jobs." If people do different jobs, and some earn more and some earn less, then we're talking about different numbers that mean different things. We're mixing categories with individuals. Maybe that was my mistake.

It's a work gap, not a pay gap. Every woman of my age I know refuse to work more than 35h/week. I have nothing against it, but don't complain you're being paid less.

@jaythenihilist4689

10 ай бұрын

You're talking about women who can't under why NBA players make more than WNBA players. If a person is that unintelligent, then it's completely useless to try and explain things to them in a logical way.

@TheJordanK

10 ай бұрын

Jesus you need to meet different women. I don’t know a single woman who acts like that. I know several who are begging their work for more than 35 hrs while they are trying to pay for college, or around my age are working full time some with kids some without. But both of these are anecdotal and neither your small sample size or mine is sufficient data to tell us anything significant about the pay gap.

@wyleecoyotee4252

10 ай бұрын

​​@@BOZ_11 Not in my workplace. It's women picking up all the overtime.

@sjent

10 ай бұрын

@@TheJordanK _But both of these are anecdotal and neither your small sample size or mine is sufficient data to tell us anything significant about the pay gap._ No, your both are anecdotal, but his anecdotal example is representative of general trend. Because this is exactly what statistics are showing. Women generally work less hours, do less overtime, less likely to come out in case of emergency, work easier and less demanding jobs, are less willing to travel for work, take longer vacations and sick days(and no, even accounting for kids, they take more sick days), etc. Are there workplaces, where women are pulling as hard as men do? Sure, but it is not a standard for women.

@enhancedutility266

10 ай бұрын

@@BOZ_11 your right men work more than hours than women by 41hr vs 36.3 a week

Birth rates are below replacement levels. Civilization will collapse, nothing can stop this. When the ordinary thought of a highly cultivated people begins to regard 'having children' as a question of pro's and con's, the great turning point has come. --Oswald Spengler

@wyleecoyotee4252

10 ай бұрын

So be it. Women are not obligated to procreate.

@sdrc92126

10 ай бұрын

@@wyleecoyotee4252 Artificial wombs will be a thing soon and women will not be needed. Men can be cloned and are more efficient than women (lower healthcare costs).

@wyleecoyotee4252

10 ай бұрын

@@sdrc92126 Good

@sjent

10 ай бұрын

@@wyleecoyotee4252 _Women are not obligated to procreate._ And men are not supposed to take care of women, yet somehow they are. Men pay majority of taxes and most of that money then gets funneled into female services. With men getting nothing of value out of this arrangement.

@zebedeesummers4413

10 ай бұрын

@@wyleecoyotee4252 This is true, no one needs to be a parent but if no one takes it appon themselves humanity literally ends but before that birthrate drops and all economies fail as there are not enough young folk to keep the old in decent condition.

This has got to be my favorite clip of someone discussing a severely polorising topic. He is truly sincere which is an adjective I really do not feel like I have felt/used in such a long time of the internet. While being sincere he is also very well researched it appears. Actually 10/10 for me.

@billytheripper4

10 ай бұрын

Yeah I hate that it's polarising by default, nothing should be polarising by default, everything should be discussable lol

@lauralee6628

9 ай бұрын

women are 50% of population YET fail to support women by electing them (women) to government THEN want special quotas to get to 50%

I heard someone say if women get payed less, why don't companies only hire women?

@sjent

10 ай бұрын

Shh, logic is sexist. Shut off your brain and believe.

@txdmsk

10 ай бұрын

Exactly. If companies happily profit from african coerced work and asian child labor to save costs, wouldn't it follow that they would also hire women over men to save costs?

I have literally never thought of viewing work as non-optional in the same way that a female may view motherhood as non-optional. How have I never drawn that comparison. What an excellent point.

A significant problem with these pay gap studies is we don’t get to see the research parameters. As a retired military sailor, I can tell you that the pay scales are exactly the same regardless of gender. The same is true of every other government worker. Same is true for school teachers, postal workers, etc, etc. Does a barista at Starbucks make more or less depending on their gender? No! There is no incentive for companies to pay women less. If that was the case, they would only hire women. Now there are pay differentials based on other factors other than gender, but they are superficial and dependent on individual qualifications. There are pay gaps in areas such as entertainment where pay is negotiated and based on things like ticket sales. But, by and large, I have a deaf ear to these spurious arguments.

@radagast7200

10 ай бұрын

Actually, women do make more money when there are tips involved, at the end of the day.

It’s not a pay gap. It’s an earnings gap

Thanks for that

How bout only 1 parent needs to work so the other can actually raise their own child. Wtf is the point of having kids you never see and dont raise.

@daivahataka

10 ай бұрын

And that is the trade off generations of men made while feminists insisted those same men had gotten to "have it all". My grandfather on his deathbed lamented how little he saw his kids when they were growing up.

@txdmsk

10 ай бұрын

Exactly. My wife has a friend. She gave birth to a little girl just to tick some checkbox in her life's todo list. A few weeks later mommy was back to work and the poor kid was raised by random people rather than the parents. Mommy even went for teambuildings and weeks long optional work conferences abroad. Women don't have an ember of maternal instincts these days.

Great video. Love it!

In Canada we get up to 18 months paternity leave, it can be taken be either parent or split between the two. I'm sure some men take it, especially in cases where both are in high paying careers but still it's overwhelmingly women. Like you said lots of moms actually want to stay home. I know I do.

I think whether it's a man or a woman, if you're not getting paid enough then there are other ways to increase your income. It requires you to be able to make changes. I'm currently thinking about investing but I don't know what to do, it's hard but I want to make money so I'm willing to learn

@silentdayreddit9114

10 ай бұрын

You can find someone who is in the business to analyze and lay it out for you

@NguyenThanh-in7gf

10 ай бұрын

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@NguyenThanh-in7gf

10 ай бұрын

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@NguyenThanh-in7gf

10 ай бұрын

@HCKRSGMR-qm9kn Of course you can just Google "Dan PriceCFA" and find him!

Excellent video! Perhaps I missed something, but everything I heard to explain the wage gap came down to choice. One point not mentioned (but have have been in the full video) was that women usually vigour men who earn more. So it also makes financial sense as a family for the woman to stay home and the man to co tubule working full time.

@DigSamurai

10 ай бұрын

Exactly! Women exclusively mate up so it's not necessary for them to make as much money and they have different priorities to men.

@777hathor

10 ай бұрын

Having children and and a job is not easy. All the school holidays, being able to pick then up after school, the out ravenous cost of child care. Then there are days where the child is sick, also all the extra work they create. Probably every mother would love to be able to get a job that is between 10 and 2. Where?

@youtubeyoutube936

9 ай бұрын

777. Ref outrageous costs of child care. Are they outrageous? Should the mainly female childminders be paid even less?

The gender pay gap only exists in the super high paid jobs. At the bottom and the middle it doesn't anymore. I'm sure you have heard of Thomas Sowell? He breaks it down really well.

@Yumicpcake

10 ай бұрын

@@maxgill6738 What are we in court? Go read some Thomas Sowell.

@enhancedutility266

10 ай бұрын

@@maxgill6738 go to the bureau of Labor statistics the median income between the genders is only separated by $43 on a weekly basis

@sdrc92126

10 ай бұрын

@@maxgill6738 🙈🙉

@radagast7200

10 ай бұрын

He also debunks the 'racial wealth gap'. Notice they never cite 'wages' when discussing pay racially... its always 'wealth'. Sowell points out that they do this because the average age of each demographic is much different. And wealth correlates strongly with age.

@Yumicpcake

10 ай бұрын

@@radagast7200 Yes, truth! Thomas Sowell is a national treasure that was blacklisted by the left because he is all about the facts and not feelings like the leftists.

There is a wage gap. Younger women are in fact earning more than young men. There's this guy on instagram who interviews random people on the street, and lots of these women are earning 6-7 figure salaries and men are actually earning much less.

@radagast7200

10 ай бұрын

Yup. They are the majority of college students and graduates as well. Now, they just focus on being the minority in STEM and demand a majority there too... It never about equality. Just their own backwards narratives, envy, and vengeance.

@ARR409

10 ай бұрын

Do you happen to know of the name of that guy on instagram?

@incognitotorpedo42

10 ай бұрын

Is there any solid data about this, beyond interviewing random people on the street? Those people are not random nor are they likely to be representative. They were selected, first by being approached by the interviewer, with whatever biases that might entail. The next selection occurred by the people who chose to respond to the survey, again not likely representative.

@chrispekel5709

10 ай бұрын

It's interesting that here in Australia the trades like construction are very well paid, so young men still out-earn women. I would wager that's the ONLY reason why young men still make more.

@txdmsk

10 ай бұрын

Yeah. The wages of women are hugely inflated. Gender wage gap my ass, it's the other way around. Not to mention that most women have nonproductive, bullshit jobs that are either producing nothing (solarium, nail salon, hair salon, magical woo woo healer, beauty salon) or could and should be easily automated (most government clerk jobs, etc.).

You want to get publically treated like crap, try being a stay at home dad.

@chrispekel5709

10 ай бұрын

Turn on the playstation and light up a blunt whilst you stay at home - who cares what the 'public' think?

@evakovacs5340

10 ай бұрын

That is unfortunate, and totally wrong but something slightly out of the ordinary tends to stump people.

@txdmsk

10 ай бұрын

There is nothing I'd love more than chill at home, raise my kids, keep a reasonable tidiness around the house and cook. What a blessing it is when someone can do that. Instead I'm working like a robot, because if wife was the breadwinner we would literally starve to death, lol. Not to mention women will stop respecting their men the moment he is not earning enough money, and society will also take a giant shit on you. So sad I'm missing out on so many amazing moments of my kids growing up. It is also sad that wife does not appreciate my sacrifices at all. In the eyes of women and society in general it is just a given, a natural course of things that men destroy their own lives to provide for their families.

@nf6386

9 ай бұрын

Temporarily and by choice, no you’re a superstar (I know because I tried it), but on an extended basis, yes I agree it’s unviable. And my wife earns several times what I do, so it’s not a financial limitation but a societal one.

@WhizzingFish12

9 ай бұрын

​@d3st88 I'd recommend you point that put to her in a fair and honest manner. You are sacrificing so she can have her preference to be home as she wants to do - she should recognize and honor that sacrifice.

Yeah I worked overnights and it was mostly men out of a crew of 12 two were women and 10 men at a grocery store men will make more for undesirable schedules and more dangerous occupations.

4:55 Tried it in Norway. And you were completely right. Some men take the tail end of parental leave, so they can do home improvements.

@petrmaly9087

9 ай бұрын

In the Czech Republic, the leave is "parental", it is up to the couple to decide if the father or the mother stays at home and it has been so for decades. The parental leave is 3 years. Only 2% of fathers go on the leave and those 2% already include male gay couples with a child. Yet 80% of fathers say they would love to stay at home with a child. Same as in Norway, religion plays effectively no role as the country is mostly atheist.

To affirm what you guys are saying, here’s a little of my story. I quit work when my daughter was just shy of 2 (my husband worked from home, but she was becoming too much of a speedy little tyrant to sustain that, LOL). I stayed home until 2 years ago when she entered high school, that’s when I decided I wanted to get out of the house and do stuff outside the home I felt good about. The whole time I had been a stay at home mom, my husband worked his ass off, and despite not having a college degree, he climbed the ladder and became an exec for a global corporation managing their North American market. I’m not bragging or anything, it’s just a relevant point to this discussion-he used the time I was able to give him (since he didn’t have to worry about our kid, or pay for daycare) to do a PHENOMENAL job establishing our financial security in a career he enjoys, which all started at a temp agency a decade prior when I quit work. It’s crazy to see how far we’ve come, I’m grateful every day. In regards to my own career, however, I “lost” those years (in quotes bc I don’t feel I lost anything, but that’s the only way I can put it). I wasn’t advancing, wasn’t gaining experience, wasn’t meeting new ppl, etc, and I’ll never get that time back to do all those things. And that’s GREAT bc our daughter is the most amazing person and I love her to pieces, she was worth every second. So is my husband. I don’t regret a damn thing about our choices (other than failing to exercise more when I was home. That was stupid. Bygones, I guess). If my husband were to leave me tomorrow (assuming he was able to evade my traps…) then career-wise, and financially, I would struggle to make ends meet. No doubt. My standard of living would drop like a Biden on a bicycle. Or was it a staircase? I forget. Anyway…Of course there are remedies for that, but my point is that the sacrifice was an investment in our future, one that required a great deal of faith in one another, and I’m not worried about it bc even if that happened now, it was still always going to be the right choice for our family, especially our daughter, and I wouldn’t change it no matter what. And if, one day, hubs runs screaming for the door and leaves me for an AI-generated beauty queen who doesn’t need a gallon of coffee before she can say anything nice each morning, I figure thats why God invented wine. And alimony. 😂

@jeroendebruyne2165

9 ай бұрын

Well, I guess what makes a person happy, or even better content seems to be -some sort of humor -trying to be considerate and aware are as possible when making life deciding choices -accepting your lifechoices come with consequences, and using humor to deal with the less pleasant ones -gathering people to love and care about, who do the same to you -a certain que sera, sera-vibe Good on you. Hope all things keep well for you and your family. Thanks for a positive note in a KZreadcomment: it is not as rare as Biden uttering a grammatical correct phrase or Trump telling something true, but still ...

What do they get wrong? They confuse Wages with Earnings.

In my country (The Netherlands) this is a huge problem. It's mostly based on culture also, because up to about 20 years ago, a family could live off of one income. Now, thats not the case anymore. And even tough there is a big movement for women to be more represented in higher up positions within companies (which i'm all for), if you are not willing to put in 50/60 hours a week for several years, you will not be able to get into that top position. The problem is also that a majority of these women who want better pay and a better position, start working part time the moment they get out of uni. Even though they don't even have a kid yet, which is I think is so stupid.

@JezaLoki

10 ай бұрын

Genuine question : why is push for representation something you are all for ? Or in other words, what is it about the idea of representation that you value ?

@kressiv

10 ай бұрын

@@JezaLoki for me personally, I like the idea that my girlfriend is just as driven in her career as me and that you both bring an equal cut to the table. I believe this can also benefit the relationship. As talked about in the video, there are a lot of men who would also like a extra day off in the week, but can’t afford to make that happen. Also, the system as a whole can benefit. If you look at Sweden for example, almost all women work fulltime there. This bring in more taxes, and the reward for that is that both the man and woman have equal maternity leave and childcare is completely free.

@JezaLoki

10 ай бұрын

@@kressiv I see, but sorry my question was more specifically about representation. I'm not questioning any of your values surrounding how the work load is shared with yourself and your loved ones. I have no issue or argument with that. As I understand it, representation means that a token individual is appointed to represent a group. It's wrong to me because we are individuals and shouldn't be defined by arbitrary groups. I'm sure we can agree we would rather be treated as individuals and not as representatives of a group especially if that group is one which we didn't volunteer to join , for example sex or racial group. With respect to your comments, I'm still unsure why being defined by the group and then selected to represent that group is of value.

@kressiv

10 ай бұрын

@@JezaLoki Ah, my bad! In that case I misunderstood your question. I meant that when there are a lot of women who say they want to be represented in these positions, I'm the last person who will disagree with that. I also agree with your opinion on being valued and treated as individuals and not as representatives of a group. I don't see the value in that either. What I was getting at with my original comment is that in my country specifically, there is a large group of people (the majority being young women with university degrees) who are actively pushing for a more equal representation of women in the workplace. Thus creating this group narrative themselves. There are already companies who have a preference for women when interviewing for a board function because of this, even though there might be a better qualified male candidate. As you can guess, this has often backfired. The problem is that, statistically, these same young women will start working part-time immediately after uni, when they don't have kids yet. Why would you spend all this money and time to get a high level degree, just to then work 2-3 days a week and not reach you full potential? Of course, everyone should live their life the way they like to. But saying one thing and then doing another doesn't really help your cause.

@txdmsk

10 ай бұрын

The one income thing is bullshit. The fact is that people waste their money on addictions, luxury products and services and stupid shit. I've done thorough analysis of many countries, took the average salary, as well as the salary of low skilled jobs, and put it next to living expenses, and let me tell you, nowhere in Europe or the US will you have trouble supporting a family of 4 on the average salary. People grossly mismanage their money. I'll give you some examples. My parents smoke. They are dirt poor. Except... they spent enough money and time on smoking to purchase two decent houses. I did the fcking calculations. Or, my sister broke her phone (that alone is a mistake, you should take good care of your belongings). I told her I will buy her a Xiaomi Poco. For 150 EUR it is an excellent phone. 99.9% of human beings don't need a better one, unless they really want a better camera, but then add a hundred or so EUR and you get a decent camera. What did she do? She bought an iPhone for 1500 EUR. And she has trouble paying for gas. Oh gas. Lots of families have cars they do not actually need, often two cars. Cars consume a colossal amount of time and money, and most people do not need them, and are actually worse off with a car. And so on.

What a breath of fresh air.

I'm not sure parental leave will "fix" that. Most women will still want to look after their children, most men will still want to do what they can to pay for that. The problem is as you say one of perception and disengenous framing.

Good to see a more balanced view of gender issues.

The pay gape exists because of the hours worked. Men tend to work more hours than women.

@PattisKarriereKarten

10 ай бұрын

Don’t know where that comes from. I work in the office, we get the salary we negotiated when being hired and we all have the same working hours. If we work more, we don’t get paid for those hours, we can just take free time instead. That’s how it works for a majority of office workers. And the majority of jobs are office jobs meanwhile.

@fred6907

9 ай бұрын

@@PattisKarriereKarten It's called statistics. Even the government keeps track of this stuff for you. Just because YOUR workplace has that structure, doesn't mean the majority does. Anecdotal examples ain't gonna cut it.

Hi, your LMNT link goes to a US site do you have one for the UK?

In Canada, except Quebec, they have maternity leave for the mother only and parental leave that is for either parent and is shared. In the vast majority of cases the sharing ends up being the father takes a few weeks off as a help to get the mother settled and then slogs back to work and the mother will take as much of the leave as possible. This is mainly due to the nature of long term relationships women generally 'date up' as in the man they choose for a long term relationship will earn more money (though that is slowly changing, but that's a whole other discussion). The leave is paid at a reduced rate tour salary so in relationship where there is a 60/40 split in income the father earning the 60, then losing 45% of his income reduces the family income by 27%. Where the mother losing 45% of their income the family only loses 18% of their total income. Since their taxes will be lower the 18% is barely even noticed. If they both are off they lose 45% of their family income, which most families just can't endure for very long. So yet again the obvious choice is to have the father take a small amount of time to help get the routine down and then continue to be the work oxen of the family and get back out there carrying their burdens. In Quebec they attempted to "solve" this by reducing the shared parental benefit and having a specific number of weeks for fathers called paternity leave. What happens in reality is that the fathers will generally not cap their paternity and the mother will use all of the maternity and parental leave portion, resulting in an overall loss of benefit for the family.

@simmorg290

9 ай бұрын

I really didn't get that point. The pay gap for women in their 40s and 50s isn't because of how 12 months or whatever of parental leave is split. It's because stay at home mums are out of the workforce for 15 years or so. Meanwhile men are progressing in their careers. Women can't return to the work on the same salary as if they'd never been away.

Motherhood is a choice. All choices have consequences. Some are good, some are bad.

@wyleecoyotee4252

10 ай бұрын

Plenty of women not choosing motherhood.

@ablestationfoxtrot8037

10 ай бұрын

@@wyleecoyotee4252 Yep. Fine with me. Freedom is paramount. It's got nothing to do with $$$ tho.

@sjent

10 ай бұрын

Problem is that women get paid not to take this choice. So it is a double loss. You get women that cost a lot to society, while contributing very little and they are not having children as well, leading to aging population. Its like paying to get yourself beaten.

@SJ-xg3rv

10 ай бұрын

Motherhood (and fatherhood) is the driving force of human life on this earth. Society should be structured around that, with some scope for the small minority who "choose" not to.

@sjent

10 ай бұрын

@@SJ-xg3rv No. Having children is important, but it should not be a cornerstone of society. It is just one of many factors. In fact i would say that emphasis on this should be minimal. It is something that comes to humans naturally and for as long as it is we do not promote opposite, as it is in the West right now, with whole "female empowerment" nonsense, there is no need for additional incentives.

I had 3 months off for my last kid and although it was nice, it would have made much more sense for my wife to have an additional 3 months. She was pumping breast milk at work throughout the day so I could feed the kid and there is nothing I could do to replace the natural connection a mother has with her baby.

The two main problem with most conversations in this space are: (i) that they're framed as fathers v mothers (as if it was a competition instead of a collaboration) and (ii) that no one asks us fathers what we do with the money we earn (spoiler alert, most if not all goes to household expenses to sustain the family, and not into gambling or drinking or whatever). Both parents sacrifice a lot to give the best opportunities to their children and to keep the household going, but we sacrifice different things. So the way to ameliorate the effects of the earnings gap is to encourage couples to stay together instead of divorcing, instead of pushing women back to work when they don't want to.

@alanhorkan

9 ай бұрын

This. The pay gap is misdirection, pay no attention to the spending gap.

@mylesleggette7520

9 ай бұрын

Don't forget the standard fallback: "Well that *may* be true, but some men who are bad, so we have to change everything!"

Last winter I was queuing up in a cold and rainy car park at around 5am on a Bank Holiday to get on a rail replacement coach. It struck me that everyone in the queue was male. I have a cosy keyboard media job but I think a lot of the others were tradesmen or worked in retail. On a normal weekday there are a lot of female commuters at that time. Make of that what you will.

It has been possible to share the total "pot" of parental leave between mother and father, in whatever share they wish, in the NHS for the last few years...

The data actually shows that men who choose to be primary care givers suffer the same career penalty as women who do the same. There is no gender gap when you account for the decisions made. The thing with equalising opportunity is, if people don't take up that opportunity in a way that results in perfect parity in outcomes, you have to have the maturity to accept that.

12 mos is a lot of time off for maternity leave for a person in a competitive career. Have 3 kids and you're out of the workforce for 5-10% of your career. After having two kids with a career driven wife I lean more to 6 mos, but the idea of having a lump household amount of time to divide as needed is pretty good.

@diomedea29

5 ай бұрын

And a pretty short time to spend with your child.

The problem with the proposed solution of giving fathers equal leave is that it results in two compromised careers per child, rather than one. Family units are a team with individuals working together... working differently but together towards the same goal.

@mylesleggette7520

9 ай бұрын

It's hardly a coincidence that the same people who push the gender wage-gap myth also support eradicating the nuclear family... They vehemently despise the idea that men and women can be equal in value without being identical in form and function.

Give every individual and/or family the same options and let them make the choices that work for them. It's pretty simple. But.... we can't then turn around and get upset if people make choices we disagree with (other than breaking the law or harming people, of course)

in america, half of the country thinks the 'gap' is comparing the same jobs. its not. its all jobs, then total pay, divided by the number of jobs, which was finally mentioned explicitly at 3:30.. so the short answer to 'what everyone gets wrong about the pay gap is that its purposefully misrepresented for political purposes.

@fred6907

9 ай бұрын

I wonder which half..... :p

Also relevant: the importance of earning power for men in dating and general social status which drives their career choices, the tradeoff between flexibility and income, whereby women tend to prioritise flexibility, the benefit of regular job-hopping to get pay rises, whereas many 30ish women will stay in a job to earn enough goodwill for flexibility when they have children, the tendency for women’s jobs to be employed by the state (teachers, nurses, public servants), which has budget limits but offsets then with low quality control and flexibility. Corporate employers pay more but will expect more of employees and fire underperformers.

You can enjoy being a mother without wanting to be a stay at home parent. Agree with your guest 100%. Not working and you get lost in it all. Parenting is all consuming if it is all you do. Honestly, my work days are a chance to breathe.

@RyanLongArt

9 ай бұрын

Sure you can just dump your kids off on a nanny then when they're old enough ship 'em off to boarding school. Why not.

@mylesleggette7520

9 ай бұрын

In the past women could do non-mothering work while simultaneously raising their children, because they typically worked from their homes. It's the modern industrial economy forcing people to congregate in child-unfriendly spaces (factories, offices, etc.) that makes women to choose between work and childrearing, instead of doing both at once as they historically did. @@RyanLongArt

The wage gap is also impossible to quantify without direct observation. Forget the fact that the more specific you get the more it shrinks, it’s quantifiably impossible to observe the countless factors that go into someone’s salary. A person’s boss might just like the gusto they walk around the office with. The wage gap is literally one of the most anti-intellectual debates. Because you have to dumb things down and over generalize to achieve it. Whereas the more you actually think about it and observe the observable and quantify the truly quantifiable, it shrinks dramatically to an amount somewhere between 7% and nothing.

That uber study conclusion was freaking hilarious LMAO

The expectations on men and women are different. If my girlfriend wants to take a part time role so she can pursue a different career path I've encouraged her. I want her more chill, more able to look after the home, which she enjoys doing. Whereas I make double what she does because my job is stressful and confrontational and involves high stakes, so it pays well but I need to maintain my role if we want to remain financially stable as a family.

Since parental leave and child care systems differs substantially between countries you cant take a study from USA and the pay gap in America and potential causes and apply in Sweden for instance. This adds another layer to this complex topic and many fall into this trap comparing studies from all over and try to find one answer, the answer, and potential problem (if there is one) might look different in different countries so you can not make universal and generalized statements.

@mylesleggette7520

9 ай бұрын

Considering the progressive goal is to create a universal society, it's no surprise that wage-gap activists constantly search for universal "solutions."

I read something very similar about the pay gap between men and women in nursing. Males get paid more because they do more overtime hours, they are more willing to do shifts during antisocial hours like nighttime and weekends, they do more shifts in 'unpleasant' areas that require more manual handling of difficult patients like in emergency care nursing and psychiatric nursing, they are also more drawn to the more technical and specialised branches like intensive care and surgical nursing.

Thomas Sowell has written at length on this topic and has given the most compelling argument as to why the gender pay gap is a myth that gets weaponized

@Sebhes1111

10 ай бұрын

What’s the abstract?

"Pay gap" goes far beyond "mother gap". Women work less hours, do less overtime, they also work easier less demanding jobs, they usually have lower seniority, due to less years under their belt, they are less likely to negotiate for better salaries, etc. When accounted for all the factors, then women are actually getting paid more for doing less.

@jt1559

10 ай бұрын

Most of the mothers I've worked with also require flexibility so they can do school pick ups and drop offs. I have seen this split between parents, but most don't split because it comes with negative career and income impacts for both parents, rather than just one.

@sjent

10 ай бұрын

@@jt1559 Yeah, and?! Women make a choice when they become mothers. The fact that their "require" something is not an employer problem.

@dondaddan

10 ай бұрын

Also known as an "earnings gap" men will volunteer more for overtime, pick up extra hours, cover for other employees, work weekends, overnight, especially married men ie male nurses

@diomedea29

5 ай бұрын

Also, many women go into some of the hardest and most demanding but poorly jobs, such is healthcare and education. I think the solution would be to increase the status and pay of these jobs, instead of hyping so called “masculine” jobs as higher status and focussing on putting all - even unwilling and disinterested- women into those jobs.

@sjent

5 ай бұрын

@@diomedea29 _Also, many women go into some of the hardest and most demanding but poorly jobs, such is healthcare and education._ Are you for fucking real?!!? Most demanding jobs are in healthcare and education?!?! Is it one of those retarded "motherhood is the hardest job out there"? You seriously will gonna try to convince people that being a teacher, a shitty one, judging by outcomes of modern western education, is harder than, lets say, being a (coal) miner? Or oil rig worker? Roofer? Soldier? Sanitation worker? Logger? Metalworker? Carpenter? Truck driver? Search and Rescue? Firefighter? Iron and steel worker? Sailor? Police Officer? Farmer? Etc. Get to fuck out of here with your bullshit. _I think the solution would be to increase the status and pay of these jobs_ NO! In United States education, on per student basis, is second most expensive in the world. While end result puts US somewhere in mid 30s range when it comes to ratings. Simply throwing more money on this problem will do nothing to solve it. You need to address root causes, not constantly put more band-aids on it. And solution is in the opposite direction. Just like it is with things like low birth rates. You do not pour more water into bucket without bottom, you fix the bucket and then you dont need even as much as you spend already.

Exactly 👏

Full-time female workers do about 10% fewer hours. So If you measure hourly rates instead of salaries the gap drops by about 10%.

Hi Chris, please take an interview from Mat Fraser, Michael Phelps or some of the one of the best ufc fighter, I think it would be interesting! Thank you for your great job!

Mothers income declines when she takes time off to raise the child. So what? It's household income, he brings home the bacon, she cooks it up. Why is this even a discussion point? If she leaves him and gets divorced, she will get half the marital assets, child support, and alimony. Women have nothing to lose by becoming a mother, or complain about.

In Canada, you can split the maturity leave between fathers and mothers. But, women overwhelmingly choose to take the full maternity leave.

What they get wrong is that it doesn’t exist. The study that lead to the 87 cents claim was a study looking at earnings, not pay. An earnings gap exists between men and women (and for many valid reasons), but no meaningful study that has looked at pay in like for like situations has found any significant disparity between men and women.

You can split the leave in the UK already, but my wife insisted on having all the leave. I’m fine with that as it works out better financially, but I’m assuming most others will be the same. Can’t have the cake and eat it.

Women you have the power to fix this gap! Mothers doing less paid work is the cause. Mother's work less because they typically earn less than their partner and so the impact of losing her wage on the family is less than losing his. Women can change this! Choose a partner who earns less money than you do! Perhaps try the unemployment line or homeless shelter - there are lots of men with the free time to raise your kids while you work a 50, 60 or 70 hour work week! Go for it ladies!

News flash: many families feel that raising their own children is more important than more disposable income.

Paternal leave doesn't work to decrease the earning gap because fathers tend to use their leave for continuing education and then return to work full time, but mothers tend to use their leave as leave and then return to work part time.

If it isn’t caused by discrimination then it isn’t a problem and there is nothing to solve, so shared parental leave is an irrelevance.

Why aren’t they competing for oil rig jobs “roughnecking”? 12 hours under the beating sun? This isn’t the 1950’s pay-wise or race-wise, it’s the age of “Smolletting”. 😂

An equal split between mother and father for paid leave after having a baby would only level the pay gap if both parents had identical jobs. If a father has a higher paying job different from mom’s, forced equal division of parental leave would negatively impact the finances of that family.

In a corporate environment, managers are responsible for promotions and exact pay. The pay scale, or range, is set by the head office. Managers or heads of departments are given a set budget and they have to force rank the people they manage. Even within one job level there is a range so any promotion to a different level or a raise is entirely dependent on a manager who may be gender biased or not. The company is not necessarily doing this intentionally, but if enough managers show bias then that will be the result. There are many studies about implicit bias that show that both men and women see males as being more brilliant and accomplished. But when ideas were presented anonymously the best ideas won out regardless of the gender of the author. When ideas were presented falsely by switching the gender of the author, the male authors were at an advantage. We are all born into a social construct and have a hard time identifying our landscape clearly.

@Xplora213

10 ай бұрын

Stop holding onto your bias. MOST ideas are not valued by quality but salesmanship of the idea creator. If men are simply better at selling an idea, then the idea will be better regarded. If a woman needs her work anonymous to get seen as equal, that’s entirely on her. You need to realise that men have been selected for hundreds of thousands of years to be better leaders than women. This is biology in action and all the postmodernism will not change that. We aren’t suggesting anything change - remember that you punish lower tier men when you punish men… you can’t have a system elevating women and ignoring the below average men if you want to ensure social stability because dispossessed men start more wars than anyone else. You could argue that socialism is the below average male trying to get ahead and that’s killed millions. Toxicity is not gendered nor limited to just your political opponents 😂

@lessismore3257

10 ай бұрын

@@Xplora213 Leadership is a service which is a relationship between people, which is influenced by what you are identifying as salesmanship. Ideas are a type of product which should have no gender identity. Most people would pay the same for a "widget" no matter which sex came up with it. The product has objective value in the market place. Depending on your job role, one is either evaluated for their leadership skills or content creation abilities. Not every job is a sales job.

@Xplora213

10 ай бұрын

@@lessismore3257 you clearly don’t understand the reality of leadership. Convincing people to listen or follow is a sales pitch. Every single time. Either way, you missed the point of my post which was related to the fact that men are recognised as being more valuable than women.

@lessismore3257

10 ай бұрын

@@Xplora213 True leaders do not have to "convince" anyone to make people follow. They lead by strength of character and ideas and people naturally follow. People with great BS abilities also get followers.

@Xplora213

10 ай бұрын

@@lessismore3257 true leaders?! Dude. You are relying entirely on charisma to justify leadership. Bill Clinton is known to be huge charisma. The creator of arkancide. John Travolta, too. Scientologist. You are ensuring another Austrian painter but not recognising they are simply selling you something…. Even the Pope is a salesman. You are ready for ideological capture.

One problem that I have encountered in my thinking about this, is that the concept of "same job" is really difficult. The main argument is that you should get the same pay for the same job, which is true but in any given expert field it's really difficult to determine who does the same job as you? Same quality, same speed, same efficiency, same expertise. Even if you have a 100 software developers working on the same project, you know that not all have the same job and not all have the same output.

@sjent

10 ай бұрын

_One problem that I have encountered in my thinking about this, is that the concept of "same job" is really difficult._ No, it is really not. Feminists just like to spin things and outright lie, to present situation in light that would be most beneficial to them. It is one of the first thing anyone dealing with feminists have to understand - they think they are morally superior and that gives them right to just lie to your face. While one might argue semantics of term "same job", normal people understand that we are dealing with all conditions being same/very similar. For feminists it is whatever they say it is. Their whole concept of "equality" is built on this completely perverted logic. Where split IS even, but not like normal people see it; like 50% of obligations and 50% of benefits. No, in feminist mind, they get 100% of benefits, while "somebody else "gets 100% of obligations. Semantically it is equal, but is it really?

@txdmsk

10 ай бұрын

I have almost 2 decades of IT work under my belt, and worked in leadership positions as well. Led giant teams of dozens of people. You can easily observe the pareto principle. A small fraction of people are always responsible for a large portion of the productivity. And they are almost always men. Women are biologically and culturally / environmentally less likely to perform well at work. They are just less productive.

@nf6386

9 ай бұрын

The solution is to recognise that in the liberal democratic west, we have a free labour market, and people can, should and do move to the employer who best recognises their value. If you are being paid less than a colleague with the same job title, it’s your responsibility to negotiate a pay rise or leave for another employer. If no other employer will pay you more, then the problem isn’t discrimination, it’s that you’re simply not worth more, by definition (in the market).

@sjent

9 ай бұрын

@@nf6386 Precisely. Problem is that some people think that they deserve everything, by simply existing. That they should get maximum, while putting in minimum effort.

In a marital situation, it comes down to ego with both sexes.

The length of parental leave is not the issue though for women choosing to work part-time. It's the fact that childcare costs are astronomical, so for most of them it makes more sense to stay at home financially (particularly younger mothers). Part-time job, means part-time income ergo so it won't be possible for most couples to send their kids to childcare until they are 3 years old. Are they meant to subsist on part-time jobs for 3 years?

Having a baby is a revolution in the lives of both men and women. The unconditional love we have for the newborn changes everything. It is very difficult for women, especially those who breastfeed, to put the baby down. Very many of the secretaries I have worked with have claimed they will come back after baby has been born and never have. You can't say that to them, because they don't believe it at the time - it's only when the baby is right there that suddenly everything changes.

I dont think extra paternity leave would help much. I was a single dad for several years. I remarried, and my wife said she wanted to go back to school to start a career, so I shifted to doing the single dad thing when she would attend university for several hours in the evenings. It only lasted about a year until she quit. She couldn't stand to be away from the kids for that long. She wanted to drop them off and pick them up from school. Hear about their days. Help them with homework. Homemaker stuff. Men, usually, lack that extreme need and want to nurture.

Its common knowledge at this point, anyone still making that argument is just being willfully ignorant or stubborn.

go and look up thomas sowell who looked at this decades(?) ago he pointed out that they were using the wrong people to compare. they should have been comparing single women against married women who have children. its taking time out from your job that causes a gap( a gap of experience). I've have had it happen to me when I took time out to be the at home parent..

@txdmsk

10 ай бұрын

Sowell is god.

Having a child nowadays is just a full crazy idea. Society and the way our economics are being structured are a big disadvantage for the stability, that is needed to maintain a healthy family.

Equal parental leave won't solve it. For the three kids we've had, my wife always took the lion share, including pay cuts, in order to ensure that she was there the first year of their lives. Had she been able to, she would've loved to take two years. This is in Norway, with some of the most generous parental leaves in the entire world. The needs of the infants far outweigh any of the concerns of equal pay down the road. My wife isn't happy about the situation, but would make the same choices again, given a choice to back in time and redo it all over again.

Here's a perspective: When a couple, hopefully married, go into child raising: It becomes shared income. Family income takes a dip, as expected because you have little humans to look after. The priority doesn't need to be who is earning more but instead one of what is the quality of life you are after and what importance do you place on having healthy children

@shamusenright5387

9 ай бұрын

Yes. In my line of work (social research) the household is usually the unit of analysis. When a man gets a promotion and more take home pay, it benefits his wife and children and visa-a-versa when a woman gets a raise. It doesn't make sense to always be thinking about male versus female.

I worked in the Netherlands with a Serbian woman (in IT), and she was baffled that so few women in the west work in IT. Apparently, in Eastern Europe, there are many more women in IT, as IT is an office job, and office jobs are primarily seen as jobs for women. Even for mothers. Culture is important in the choices we (can) make.

@Mahtijanis

9 ай бұрын

It may be that in certain countries the other options we would see as 'jobs for women' are so poorly paid with appalling hours and conditions that it leaves the women with little choice but to find a husband to provide for her and who to be dependent on, or remain dependent on your parents, and IT being relatively comfortable and well paid is seen as a way out of that predicament. At least that's the sort of thing I've heard people say of India and some other developing countries. Serbia is no India, but I'm willing to bet that in the Netherlands your average nurse or nanny is relatively better paid than in most Eastern European countries, which means it's a reasonable choice for a woman to take even if willing to be independent and whatnot. Then again, perhaps what I just wrote has nothing to do with what this Serbian woman spoke of.

@diomedea29

5 ай бұрын

Yes, in Eastern and Central Europe - at least when I was growing up - we didn’t know about this preconception that STEM is for men. Most people didn’t get into STEM careers because it seemed like a boring option. Now it’s “cool” to be in STEM, at that time it wasn’t. But there were and are many women in STEM there compared to Western Europe.

It neither about discrimination or preferences alone. It’s simply about jobs that get paid much less than other jobs, in which tend to work more women. Care jobs in nursing homes include night shifts and heavy lifting (you ever tried to roll around a lying person on your own?!!) but nevertheless the vast majority of the workers there are women. Men don’t want to do those jobs because they don’t earn a good salary there. If the salary for those jobs went up and working conditions would be better, maybe more men were willing to do them and the women would earn more simultaneously. That Uber study is way too simplistic.

Shared leave between mother and father. Different models have already been tried in Norway. Don’t have all the data, but it obviously does not immediately solve anything.

A big mistake people make is assuming that everyone wants perfect mathematical equality. You have to match the systems you’re pushing with what people actually want.

@fred6907

9 ай бұрын

Marxist brainwashing from academia, as usual. With good help from mainstream media. Anyone with half a brain know these "studies" are completely flawed and ripe with cherry picking data, while excluding the actual reason why men earn more (more overtime, less sick leave, choosing jobs with high salary, interests etc).

There is also a bias in family law where if a couple get divorced the female is financially rewarded for having the kids more and for longer. Added to the spousal support men need to pay. As seem in Florida with the whole alimony for life nonsense. Men can being forced to delay retirement so a woman can life a nice comfortable life…

2:45 like Travis Bickle

My wife and I have been together for nearly 20 years. We had our first child a couple years ago. She was not completely happy in our relationship until our first was born. And she has no desire to go back to work. She did not consider our family as being a family and completing its purpose until we had a child. Unfortunately, we could not afford to do it sooner so we will not be able to have as many children as we would like.

@mylesleggette7520

9 ай бұрын

"She did not consider our family as being a family and completing its purpose until we had a child." Your wife is an uncommonly perceptive woman.

I used to explain this to people patiently for years, but honestly, at this point in my life when someone hits me with the pay gap card, I just call them stupid. The information on the causes for pay gap are here since the mid 80s, it has been debated all over the internet in the past 2 decades and "correlation is not causation" is a high school 101. For an adult in 2023 to say that pay gap reflects on gender discrimination is a marker of a low IQ. Plain and simple.

2:22 to 3:40 Yep 🎯

Glad to see people returning to sanity. The simple answer is that men will do almost anything to provide for their families, and women will do almost anything for their children. Biological reality bred through thousands of generations.

The pay gap, which by the way should not be called the gender pay gap (because gender is not based on sex) is not about total wage earned or gross/net income. It should be about the pay rate per hour worked against a the contracted hours for each profession.

Changing the terminology would be a good start. 'Pay gap' sounds like women are actually paid less than men for doing the same job which is not true. However, many people with limited critical thinking skills (whom there's no shortage of) hear and subsequently believe just that. 'Income gap' would be more accurate a term. Also, I don't think taking maternity leave is such a big factor here as it is portrayed - most people with even an average IQ understand that if one takes 15 months off work for whatever reason, there's a big chance they might miss out on an opportunity for promotion that came by while they were off. Additionally, this promotion opportunity could also be taken up by another woman who, in effect, will start earning more than a woman who missed out as she was on mat leave. How is it a gender pay gap then? Motherhood is not mandatory - it's a choice. If your career and keeping up wage wise with your non-parent work colleagues (males and females) is so important to you, then don't have children.

2:58 was priceless. 😂