The Play of Two Swords by Manciolino (Bolognese Trafitions) is very similar. He recommends not moving your feet much at all, just keeping your line on the opponent, and to keep the swords apart, one in a high guard and one in low. He says that you should never use both swords for a task, always attack different areas or always defend with one and attack with other. The brain power to accurately involve both swords without resorting to simple patterns requires your focus almost entirely on your hands. This means that you'll be less mobile, but if done right you're basically always a threat to your opponent. A key difference between Musashi and Manciolino is that the latter didn't believe in crossing the swords for big parries. He would recommend passing footwork where you close in on your opponent while parrying with one sword instead. He did not like the idea of presenting both your wrists to an opponent who can have a freehand when you can't. Grappling is always a threat in dual wield because neither of your hands are free.

@t3rcx

9 ай бұрын

Good take and analysis. This reminded me that there do exist a few "3 sword" techniques in certain arts, where the dual wielder will drop one weapon purposely (in specific situations, not randomly) in order to transition to a knife or dagger length third weapon suitable for the final maneuver at grapple range. I also like to draw a connection between dual wielding and piano playing (or drumming) because the skill to develop limb independence is similar.

@dirtpoorchris

9 ай бұрын

If you practice dexterity with both hands for very long periods of time eventually it will feel normal. Just like stance switching quickly to get different angles. In boxing my left hand is about 95% as good as my right hand because I trained it that way on purpose.

@sukotsutoCSSR

9 ай бұрын

When it comes to grappling, I argue that it's even harder to grab and wrestle with someone who uses a blade on each hand. If they grab them, they run twice as much risk of falling right into a blade or being in range to get drawn cuts everywhere. Range is the best way to deal against a dual weapon wielder, since their general stance is meant to be a little more squared to take full advantage of both arms - which will telegraph attempts at extending past the effective range.

It is one of the very few videos on YT about kenjutsu where I can see some very efficient looking techniques without all those unnecessary additional movements and wide swings. Awesome! Hope we will see more here from Chung!

@IzanaG1z

8 ай бұрын

Gumdo?

Some naysayers would say the kata demonstration isn't good enough to prove it works, but I do wonder even with more force or multiple strikes, how would someone get a blow in without getting stabbed or slashed first. It looks simple but it's so direct.

@Burboss

9 ай бұрын

this is misleading simplicity )

@SirConto

9 ай бұрын

My sense based on my (mostly kendo, I'm a first dan) experience on at least the theory of how to fight someone like this. I hope my explanation makes sense, since it's quite hard to put into words and there's a lot of nuance to this. Here goes: So to initiate an attack and get past that defense, there are basically two types of options: 1. direct attacks - so striking at his hands or extending myself a bit to try and reach at the head, maybe thrusting at he neck. He has counters to all of these of course, that's basically what he's demonstrating in the video. But if you drilled the basics, your attack can be pretty fast. I know I can get most of mine to around 0.25-0.3 seconds. If you look at the top athletes, they can get theirs under 0.2 seconds. If he can read your intentions, or if you're just too slow he can counter. But if the attack manages to surprise him, he may well be too slow. 2. feint + attack - so indicating you'll attack one of the targets from the previous point, or even noncommittally striking it, but then as he counters, changing the direction or following up the first strike with another to attack an opening created by his counter. Imagine if for example at 1:48 the strike to the head was just a feint, and as the nito guy raised his arms the strike would be redirected to his wrist. Before someone does actually commit to an attack, there's usually some probing. Opponents standing just out of that range where they could instantly attack the other, sometimes noncommittally moving into closer range to test the others reactions, and so on. Here, you'd try to use that to figure out what option to go with. If you find out he's very responsive, the second's likely to work. If he's not responsive enough, then the first could have a chance. There's also the element of "programming your opponent" here, which basically means trying to fool him about what your intentions and/or reactions are. To do thinks like trick him about your rhytm or convince him you'll keep trying feints, etc. Also, keep in mind that he too has ways of initiating attacks, and you too have options to counter. So everything I just described earlier simultaneously kinda goes the other way around too. So quite a lot of stuff going on at the same time.

This is probably the best two-sword Katana demonstration I've seen. We'd use wooden bokken in our sparring and block/perry and thrust tended to work. I remember sparring with a guy who took Kendo and I immediately won when I used two swords this way. I used deflectional perrys a lot and I didn't find two-handed sword swings to be much of a problem.

Historically, Musashi used one sword to fight his duels. He promoted the two sword style in his later years and it was probably his take on his grandfather's school of Enmei Ryu. Furthermore, this is a kata demonstration, not free sparring. It's not rocket science, but apparently some people in the comment sections can't seem to understand that. 🤦‍♂

It would be interesting to hear more in-depth about what makes this style different and what the positives and negatives are

@HideAndRead

9 ай бұрын

.... Go rin no Sho. The book of five rings. Very in depth

@kettwood7248

9 ай бұрын

Once saw documentary that Musahi is envy to mounted warriors, so more to ascending blows (percfectly cavalry and also perfectly italian) which is not quite common in Japan at the day. Second sword he mostly used as a perfect bind-and-grappling-recolver in close range but in later times he started use it more as parrying dagger. also said that he was about 1.90m height and usual japanese swordsmanship of his time not work well for him. in his book he is more of tactic then technic and also somewhat tends to cruetly mock with some sowardly-smart-ass enemies, sometimes killing them with a clublike boken instead of sword

@houseofkungfu2543

9 ай бұрын

You probably I don't have to PAY for that in a class. Try finding a teacher

@anghusmorgenholz1060

8 ай бұрын

​@@HideAndReadI've been studying that book since childhood. Even last year I have learned from it. The leaf let me know. Calm and empty your mind so the Tengu cannot read it anymore and when you have calmed and emptied your mind the leaf tells you he is not reading your mind he is reading your body. See him watch the leaf without seeming to just as you are watching him without seeming to. Then you know that his first move will not be to hopefully read your attack fast enough to counter it instead he just engages his defense then attack. So you mirror him. I am currently working at a HEMA based on Norse warriors. They didn't write it down. They taught it, then you practiced it the way you would use it. Something about training as if you are actually fighting for your life appeals to me. To practice in a lesser way will lead to you fighting in a lesser way. The origin of the word crafty originates from this. It means that you can fight with either hand or both hands or switch hands in battle. Or my favorite you fight with a sword and a shield gripped in the center let your opponent make up their mind as to your handedness then stack your hands behind the shield and right before you engage switch them. Your left held sword is now your shield and your right held shield is now your sword. You advance to point of contact and strike fast while you utilize the best defensive maneuver simultaneously as you strike.

Very elegant counters to where I would be dumbfounded how to land a strike.

Reminds me alot of wing chun principles of attack and defend at same time feeling the flow

@Saha_Kshatriya

9 ай бұрын

Вин чун на этом и основан )))

Once again awesome work! This is one of my favorite subjects. Greetings from Northern Japan!

It's wonderful to watch a true master at work!⚔🔥🙌

amazing to see Niten Ichi Ruy principles, thank you for the interview

It seemed like he hardly moved when countering, very cool!

That guy is so scary! His movements are so deliberate. It's inspiring to watch him!

Next I want to see Musashi Kenjutsu vs. Eskrima. Or at least a comparison

@ceej2739

9 ай бұрын

Was thinking this myself!

@JonDodd-ds9vx

8 ай бұрын

I can only practice eskrima, no where to learn anything else, but I use 2 katanas.

You guys make great content I wish I could spare with you at some point

thanks

Thank you all for the video 👊🏻

1:20 "The Monkey's Tree Branch Suddenly Breaks With Viper Above"

I have to admit I cringe a little seeing Niten Ichi-ryu Musashi Kai and Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu presented as the same thing. They haven’t shared a lineage for centuries, and they are very much distinct ryuha.

@Ianmar1

9 ай бұрын

Was it Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu in the embu at 0:52 ?

@BlueyFromMelbShuffle

9 ай бұрын

@@Ianmar1 Yes, that is Kajiya-sensei (12th soke of Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu) demonstrating nito seiho at the 2019 Nihon Kobudo Embu taikai.

@tokkuyasu

4 ай бұрын

What are the differences?

@unp4tch3d

4 күн бұрын

Kajiya is the sokē ​@@tokkuyasu

I see that you have used the footage of Kajiya Takanori Soke of the main branch Santo-ha Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu; which is different to Musashi-Kai's kata and traditions. I wonder if there is footage of Araseki Tomisaburo which would be more appropriate to the video's context.

@Ianmar1

9 ай бұрын

Agreed, however this is a kendo channel, we typically don't understand koryu politics.

Amazing 👍👍💪💪👊👊🥋🥋⚔️⚔️

Very good

How do you decide who you spar with? I'd love to spar in one of your videos one day.

do it with the nine section whip/chain whip / jiu jie bien or meteor hammer/dart rope.

Cool

Hey there, got a question. Could u say me where to get these swords u r fighting with ( Steel ones) ??

That was awesome. Would be great to see him in free sparing to see if it can be beat

That's so unfair, two swords have huge advantage! Musashi knew!

Anyone else use "eagle wings 🦅" but vertical to attack ? Stepping forward with each slice

Nice in theory, but only practic Sparring will show if it works against some one who does not only do one simple attack...

@atomicdestroyer8068

9 ай бұрын

Well to be fair this isn’t unrealistic or unreasonable compared to other “kata” I’ve seen. It looks like a decent basis where you can branch off of. (I’ve practiced a bit of kenjutsu and am currently practicing Fiore long sword and Spanish rapier)

@DarkwarriorJ

9 ай бұрын

Everything can be composed out of these one-move sequences + some insight that lets them flow between them (my own fatal flaw before; couldn't see how).

Where can i find the sparring video in the first 20 seconds?

Odachi please

Dual swords op bro

🙏

Some can argue that a real good Parry Knife with sword catcher is BETTER than a sword. Now if you mix it together and use both sword + parry knife..... Even the Chinese have double butterfly knife which enabled some females to kill warriors that had long sword.

I would like to think the ability to trap an opponents weapon or to perform simultaneous parries and attacks would far outweigh the power difference of one hand vs two hand.

I'm trying to learn this technique, except instead of a katana and wakizashi, I use a shorter pair: a wakizashi and a tanto. Katanas are too heavy and long for 1 handed operation ime. My study is for very close quarters fighting - you have to close in on your opponent.

@JonDodd-ds9vx

8 ай бұрын

I'm using 2 katanas

@jaketheasianguy3307

8 ай бұрын

Musashi said using katana with 1 hand would feel heavy and unwieldy for a moment, but later on you can swing it freely just like when you use a short sword. Combined with his fighting method, no range would give you disadvantage. He's also dislike schools that has mindset like you ( focus on using extra long swords for extra advantage or focus on only short swords to close range fighting ), as he said with his Way of fighting, there's no need to waste time to study such unnecessary methods as his style can adapt to any range

@JonDodd-ds9vx

8 ай бұрын

@jaketheasianguy3307 on page 1 of the 1 ring of his book of 5 rings he says practice with 2 katanas

@jaketheasianguy3307

8 ай бұрын

​@@JonDodd-ds9vx"practice" is different from "fighting with"

🚬🧐☕

Wow! I wish that the Musashi-kai had people like Jeong Tae Sun sensei in Europe.😁

@BlueyFromMelbShuffle

9 ай бұрын

But we do… I mean, I was there in Tokyo receiving my 4th dan in Musashi Kai when Chung-sensei received his 7th dan. We also have a 5th dan in France (Goullon-sensei). Not to mention, Chung-sensei visited Europe just a few months ago.

@Ianmar1

9 ай бұрын

Where can I learn more?

@koreanitokensi

9 ай бұрын

​​@@Ianmar1sometimes round in europe for kendo travel. maybe will can go your country)))

@Ianmar1

9 ай бұрын

@@koreanitokensi Are you ever in or near the Netherlands? Do you give kendo seminars?

@koreanitokensi

9 ай бұрын

​@@Ianmar1of course I can do give seminar for anywhere nito players.

I still will take a shield + sword rather than 2 swords. But I am European )

@DarkwarriorJ

9 ай бұрын

Europeans with Rapier and Dagger be like: "I exist too! I'm not even that different in stabby stab!"

@Burboss

9 ай бұрын

@@DarkwarriorJ that's a dueling setup primarily

@SirConto

9 ай бұрын

Samurai of the edo period didn't really get the option, they were just legally forced to carry the two swords on them all the time as a symbol of their rank.

@Burboss

9 ай бұрын

@@SirConto Europeans also did not carry a full armour and shield while off-duty. Which did preclude to use both on a battlefield.

@SirConto

9 ай бұрын

@@Burboss I did sort of assume we were talking about this kind of civilian setting, without battlefield equipment. And that said, in Europe, the small type of shield called a buckler was quite commonly carried alongside the sword by civilians.

one thing that occurs to me is that a lot of these strikes wont work if your enemy is wearing armour...

@nitokensi

8 ай бұрын

That is not for Armour fighting style swordsmanship.

If this is Miyamoto's style it just seems a bit strange how there isn't much mobility or strong stances. Wouldn't you be a much easier target by remaining so static? Sorry, I am not knocking the style. I'm just curious.

@SilverforceX

9 ай бұрын

Musashi killed his opponent in one swift move. It's lethal when you get stabbed or sliced without armor, especially if its to the head or neck. Basically, sword duels in real life are not like in movies in hollywood. It's over in a flash.

@jaketheasianguy3307

8 ай бұрын

Musashi recommend footwork that look just like how you walk in daily life. He dislike when people floating or jumping dashing around since that can only work on some specific terrains. He believe you should fight in ways that's suitable to all type of terrains

Katana

it is fine to be monotonous. it is not stupid if it works

Musashi himself wrote that he did not find the usage of two swords good for duels.

@nitokensi

8 ай бұрын

There is no record of him saying that. That is a lie made up by other in later times.

@lucaslimal3

8 ай бұрын

@@nitokensi I had to get back to the books to see that indeed I was wrong. Musashi wrote in Gorin no Sho that twoswords are better for fighting a crowd people and that you should wield a sword with both hands if the enemy is hard to cut down, but did not stated that one should not duel wield for dueling. It is the Eiji Yoshikawa romance that written that, not Musashi.

I think this is all so far from real life that none of this actually works. For starters, in a real fight the distance between them would be much greater ( like touching the tip of the swords with both arms extended )... Also, anyone defending would immediately take a huge step back. ( He wouldn't just stand there for the second sword to get to him so easily ) ... And third and most important ... POWER !! The very same reason for samurai opting for no shield and two hands held weapons ( This applies to all weapons, Naginata, Katana, Yari, No-Dachi, etc ) is to sacrifice the lack of protection in exchange for EXTRA POWER ... So in real life, the kinetic force of the blow coming from the two hand held sword would be so strong, that the guy blocking with one hand would get his wrist twisted, he would get a terrible cramp on his entire arm and most importantly, the single handed sword would be pushed back allowing the other one ( That's coming with overwhelming force ) to reach the body. Just do this simple experiment, grab a bat with one hand and hold it next to your face. Now tell your buddy to grab his bat with two hands and swing towards your face with all he's got .... See what happens. Miyamoto Musashi was freakishly strong and this is why he's basically the only one who made this style famous. Another IMPORTANT fact, he made his bones on the Edo period ( peace times ), not on Sengoku Jidai ( total war period ) ... Which means that all of his duels were without wearing armor ( which means, the slightest cut would take you off your game ) But when you're wearing full body armor, you're not worried about those little cuts ( they cannot cut through armor ) so you're basically concentrating on power blows. Which actually leaves the one handed sword guy at a disadvantage. This is why the samurai never used this style in warfare and this is why Miyamoto Musashi never made a name for himself during the Sengoku period.

@jaketheasianguy3307

8 ай бұрын

You talk as if a style was made in peace time was something to be ashamed at. Everything has it's context, not "better" or "worse". All styles made in war time like Katori Shinto Ryu for example, still has to modify their techniques to fit in with Edo period, they cannot just copy paste techniques that was used in war time into peace time. Not everything has to be warfare or armor related to be "good"

@sandroclemus

8 ай бұрын

@@jaketheasianguy3307 A style made in peace times shameful? Not really, for example I LOVE Judo.... But there's a lot of "fantasy" when martial arts are invented without put it it to test. Punching and kicking the air, breaking wood or bricks or fighting paralyzed adversaries it's WAY FAR from battling an adversary on a competition or even a life or death situation. This is why Karate, Kungfu, Akido, etc never made it to the Olympics, because as soon a the fight starts FOR REAL, all they do instantly becomes crap. This is also why none of these are bases to MMA which is the pinnacle of hand to hand combat to this day. So peace times developed martial arts shameful? Absolutely not... A proven style in warfare being superior to an unproven one, 100% yes.

@jaketheasianguy3307

8 ай бұрын

Anything martial arts Olympic touched turned into shit, just to point out 1 thing. I get what you mean about pressure testing but using the Olympic as an example is not it

@sandroclemus

8 ай бұрын

@@jaketheasianguy3307 That's cause you've never met an Olympian from Judo, Boxing or Wrestling in your life. You're just affected by your own ignorance. I can name a few though. Randy Couture, Dan Henderson, Ronda Rousey... How shitty are they? or How off is your perspective.... Mmmm, hard to choose.

@alexelric7020

5 ай бұрын

In a real war Musashi would tell you to get a better weapon than a Katana. This style was suggested by him in the context of dueling and usually specifically only against multiple people (not armored). No one believes or said this style would be suitable against armored opponents on a battlefield, and the fact that it isn’t is not an indictment against it.

...and I will wait to see how Seki Sensei reacting to this...

These are very realistic, efficient techniques, but they do not take into account that if you are facing off with an opponent, and you both have swords then you are both likely prepared for this battle. This means there will also be armor. Those one handed strikes to the arms and body would be cutting against armor and may not penetrate or cripple. The stabbing techniques (aimed at spaces in the armor) would be essential.

@The_true_Joe_mama

9 ай бұрын

musashi usually fought in unarmored duels... those are a thing. In warfare you would use polearms, but in a city?

I mean this is nice and all but it's worth remembering this is theory and practise, not a sparring session. It's a lot harder to put into practise when you dont know when or how your opponent is going to move. I'm not saying its impossible to do this, but I'd take everything he's saying here with a grain of salt until you see it in a real match.

@SilverforceX

9 ай бұрын

This is stupid, nobody is going to do a real match with real swords, they'd die in an instant.

@jaketheasianguy3307

8 ай бұрын

@@SilverforceX These are blunts, and these folks have spar with the swords they are using in the videos before

@jaketheasianguy3307

8 ай бұрын

These principles are used in other styles as well like the Italian Bolognese sword and dagger. Just look for competition or sparring footages if you need proof that they worked

Skill issue

Eso es KUMDO coreano, nada que ver con Musashi ni con kenjutsu amigo.

@Ianmar1

8 ай бұрын

The guy in white is a licenced instructor of Noda-ha Niten Ichi-ryu.

@manuelm.99

4 ай бұрын

no amigo. this is a member of niten ichi ryu musashikai, a organisation that indeed goes back to musashi himself as it is a nito kendo style rooted in nodaha niten ichi ryu kenjutsu.

I call bullshido. Of course he is going to score a hit when the attacker is just doing one strike then pausing…

@Ianmar1

9 ай бұрын

This was for demonstration purposes. You can watch him absolutely stomp Hogu Yeom in kendo here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/lqOnzc-Nm9PVlNo.htmlsi=P9UTRguDt2pTVM1M it's not the same as a real fight, but this man clearly understands distance and initiative.

Total BS from people that know zero about niten ichiryu! HEY you just copied part of a real video of my ryu!!! It has a copyright!

@manuelm.99

4 ай бұрын

no bullshit at all. please look up niten ichi ryu musashikai.

A Korean claims to be from the legitimate school of Miyamoto Musashi and knows the true techniques, however he is another Korean student of a style with a generic name and a Dan system?! That doesn't seem very Koryu Bujutsu to me.

@Ianmar1

9 ай бұрын

I'm pretty sure that Musashi kai is the kendo club of Noda-ha Niten Ichi Ryu. They are distinct from the main line Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu. Plenty of koryu have moved onto the dan system.

@BlueyFromMelbShuffle

9 ай бұрын

I recommend you look into Niten Ichi-ryu Musashi Kai's history if you feel that way.

@IzanaG1z

9 ай бұрын

@@Ianmar1 The hyohos are also suspect

@TheWasteOfTime

9 ай бұрын

​@@IzanaG1zhow so?

@manuelm.99

4 ай бұрын

chung sensei is actually a high grade member of the japanese organisation niten ichi ryu musashikai. which indeed goes back to musashi himself. so if it seems to you like that, maybe you should study the subject a little more before commenting.

What a joke

This might be the worlds worst interpretation of the nito seiho (if thats what they're going for) if its taking nito kendo and trying to pass it off as being niten ichi ryu (which is what it is) its exceptionally bad at that as well this is just front to back not good