Thank you all for watching and the interesting comments, here are some points to address the main ones I have seen: - Great points about how this may be manufactured in the future, part of the economies of scale I mentioned could definitely include injection moulding or similar. - Durability is an interesting point and I would love to see how the blades fair in a 'crash test', they may also be harder to repair? Let me know your thoughts. - The gain in efficiency is 105% when compared to the original values (38% to 78%), it is true that absolute efficiency cannot be over 100%, but increases can be. Such as a company seeing a 200% increase in profits, for example. - Many saying that reduced cavitation may also reduce wear on the blades, making them last longer in boats. Great point that I didn't think of!

@YHK_YT

Жыл бұрын

fard

@team3383

Жыл бұрын

Very Interesting video. Unfortunately, in the economy we live and use, more efficiency means more expense. So all the gain goes straight out the window. Slightly explained by "economies of scale" but do you really believe that ? The sales argument will ALWAYS be "But you'll be saving 20% on your fuel bill" so in effect replace the *saved" fuel by paying MORE for the solution ...... It's a sad world we live in when all and everything is motivated by gain and greedy people. As soon as you step out of university and join the commercial world this will hit you strongly.

@supyrow

Жыл бұрын

This design is over 35 years old

@team3383

Жыл бұрын

@@supyrow YES exactly. Instead of being economically sensible, the people in charge of making money with things have decided to price it out of the market. Pity it isn't mandatory to study physics AND economics along with English.

@lissyflur1907

Жыл бұрын

The absolut efficiency cannot be even 100%, to reach 100% energy efficiency, you need to have no losses at all, that's not possible. You will always have some losses, in useable Energy.

This propeller design originates in Tasmania in 1971. It was developed by D B Sugden, an engineer consulting to The Robbins Company (a US company out of Seattle, specialists in hard rock tunnelling machines). The Robbins Company financed an R and D project lasting 2 years in collaboration with David Sugden. I joined the company in that year, thus I speak with some authority. We built and trialled a series of propellers from about 10 inch to 30 inches swept diameter. At that time the difficulty was reproduction of form, a problem which, as you point out, is overcome by CNC capabilities and 3D printing. Trials and wind tunnel testing demonstrated significant performance gains. I recall that a large prop was provided to a fishing vessel owner on the understanding he would trial it for a few months. He refused to give it up because it was so good when the trial concluded. The manufacturing difficulties of that time precluded further development.

@kettelbe

Жыл бұрын

Ahah no shit ! Once it was broken i bet it ended up on a trophy shelf ! Like all the best manmade tools we do!

@ChinchillaBONK

Жыл бұрын

That boat owner is a disrespectful person with no integrity

@destroyer2496

Жыл бұрын

I don't blame the fisherman for wanting to keep a State of the art rotor blade

@Slay_No_More

Жыл бұрын

@@ChinchillaBONK he lacks tegrity

@Quemedices684

Жыл бұрын

It’s hard to believe that since 1971 no naval engineer had developed it, knowing that propellers are one of most refined and studied piece of a boat

Major props to the inventors.

@erynmacdonald

Жыл бұрын

Bumping

@jayar98

Жыл бұрын

Lol I'm a big fan

@jayar98

Жыл бұрын

Lol I'm a big fan

@Unami0929

Жыл бұрын

I see what you did there, ha!

@40goose40

Жыл бұрын

I'm just blown away

I love seeing engineering breakthroughs like this. Amazing stuff.

@deepaklevin

11 ай бұрын

not a breakthrough. Its old story

@ironhell813

3 ай бұрын

Nope not even close, it’s just two regular props welded at the tips. Having two regular counter rotating props on one shaft would be better, some submarines do this. Really you can’t engineer better props unless they have more blades prop engineering peaked at isambards great eastern which had 6 or 8 blades

I could see this being interesting for FPV, quieter at the same performance and potentially greater crash resistance with the right materials. Not to mention it would probably hurt a lot less to get hit by one of these props compared to an open blade

@minerran

Жыл бұрын

The noise reduction and efficiency (resulting in longer flight time), will definitely interest the UAV community. I'd buy them TODAY if I could buy aftermarket props for my DJI quads.

@iwontreplybacklol7481

Жыл бұрын

Problem is, they would cost a fortune because they are way more intensive to manufacture and need extremely low tolerances. Basically, you won't see this thing on regular people quads anytime soon, if ever.

@andshofs5769

Жыл бұрын

@@iwontreplybacklol7481 So we have to invest in cooler 3D printing technologies for home application, like carbon fibre tucked in with the strand, and use eg ultrasound sheer waves to mix it with existing layers and have more cross linking between strands of print-out. Also, I would like to have multi-head extrusion in miniature size crawling relative to each other. But hey, future just begun ;) Silent aircrafts are lighter-than-air ships, and use props only to navigate, not to levitate.

@HauntedXXXPancake

Жыл бұрын

Agree on the first part but I have my doubts when it comes to crash resistance.

@andshofs5769

Жыл бұрын

@@iwontreplybacklol7481 I don't lnow for sure. What if it is possible to find the right stretchabbility and do it like a sail? Will ist self-align into optimal path? This should be the way... of the genius propeller ;)

Im a CNC programmer who worked for a top tier marine propulsion company for years. Our company has been in the R&D phase of producing a prop similar to this for years to no avail. We produce the Volvo-Penta dual out drive props and Volvo is/was very interested in this design. The main hurdle we couldn't clear on this design was cavitation and vibration during high RPM, which absolutely destroys lower ends. We even consulted top level fluid dynamic phd's from University of Michigan and still haven't cracked the code (pun intended), as of 2019 anyways. I had to work hand-in-hand with our engineers on this project and I can say with 100% certainty, these style prop's are a bear to machine, even using state of the art 5-axis mills, the tolerances are crazy and the balance has to be absolutely perfect to mitigate the issues I mentioned above. I've produced some highly technical stuff in my career, including Govt. projects like the Navy's SWS submersible troop transport vessel to high end Hatteras, Bertram and Bollinger Shipyard 5, 7 and 8 blade NiBrAl, Bronze and Stainless steel props for luxury yachts and cargo vessels alike. All that being said those projects were a cake walk in comparison to this design. I don't miss the stress, twisted steel & broken tools. I was on a 1st name basis with our Dapra tool rep after trying to machine these.

@SilenceDogood76

Жыл бұрын

A design like this lends itself towards an additive, rather than a subtractive machining process. Twenty years ago, the idea of 3d printed metals was just that, an idea. Perhaps twenty years (OK, probably more like 50 years) from now, the idea the idea of subtractive machining will be primitive, much the way we think of the hammer and anvil today. Machinists who haven't even been born yet will look at the rusty 5-axis CNC in the back corner of the shop and think "How could anyone have ever made anything with that hunk of junk..?"

@WherEmEweeD

Жыл бұрын

You should have been involved in the making of this video. Roughly what RPM'S would cause cavitation and vibration for this design? @livefire81

@fantasyflare

Жыл бұрын

Why wouldn't it simply be a matter of making one model that works as well as possible, then making a mold and casting them? If not for transport maybe there's some low rpm applications where the efficiency and lower turbulence make it a better propeller design? Moving gases and fluids is such a broad range of applications.

@fladave99

Жыл бұрын

Why not produce a 180 degree bent strip, welded to the hub instead of a 3-d cnc tunneled design?

@donaldduck830

Жыл бұрын

@@fladave99 ​ @Paul Zulauf quote: "vibration during high RPM, which absolutely destroys lower ends" unquote If your bent steel strip rips off the rotating axle due to a bad weld, your boat is dead in the water. Also, if you use castiron instead of high-tensile steel, you can say bye bye to your prop. Water is not compressible. While i see the functionality for this with gas and in small drones, with a fluid and large ships you possibly need a sci-fi material (like the base for the Ringworld) to make this work reliably.

So exciting! My dad was a metallurgist and cast many large propellers for military, cargo, and passenger vessels. I wish he was still around so I could share this with him. Thank you!

@guitar6731

Жыл бұрын

My dad loved boats too, i share the same feeling.

@alittlebitgone

Жыл бұрын

It's a scam, these props have been around for 50 years, there's a reason you don't see them anywhere.

@quadlawnmowerman

Жыл бұрын

@@alittlebitgone Exactly, the maths hasn't magically changed in the last 50 years....

@grugnotice7746

Жыл бұрын

@@alittlebitgone The reason being the difficulty and cost of making them?

@badkittymama6508

Жыл бұрын

@@alittlebitgone Lol, in that case, knowing my Dad’s very precise engineering mindset, I would have probably been in for a lengthy, detailed lecture on the subject!

Fascinating topic and well presented - as a lifelong power boater I certainly love the idea of this so far untapped potential efficiency gain. And as someone involved in the emerging advanced/urban air mobility industry I’m interested in mitigating what will almost certainly be the impacts of community annoyance to noise. Subbed!

This is huge!hey hats off to you for being on top of this type of video, it's seriously a major saving of fuel and makes the boat for efficient through the water.thsnks for the vid.

As a drone pilot, I love the idea of quieter flight & improved rfficiency! Hope these make it to the marketplace soon! 🙂

@mrdeurknopp

Жыл бұрын

Ukrainians are rubbing their hands together

@brenovsky

Жыл бұрын

You could try 3d printing your own... I'm sure there are some designs available online.

@noahway13

Жыл бұрын

I see drones using this quickly, as the props are made of plastic.

@DivisionRc

Жыл бұрын

Hope this trend dies NGL. Kinda annoying left and right videos of people 3d printing and flying them. They don’t even perform half as good as normal propellers half the time. Few days or weeks and this trend will be forgotten

@KL-te1dq

Жыл бұрын

As a blablablabla....if i had a buck for every obnoxious egomaniac using that phrase in comment sections....

It's crazy how much improvement can be made to everything we already have.

@TigeroL42

Жыл бұрын

It's wild how the all the answers are written on the walls so to speak in sacred geometry

@giovannifoulmouth7205

Жыл бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking. We simply don't know yet how much more efficient ordinary every day objects can be made.

@stanhunt8543

Жыл бұрын

Yet people choose to obsess over things like gender and race

@misutatomasu

Жыл бұрын

@@stanhunt8543 They started this in 2015 on a much bigger scale to entertain the stupids, like inventing new genders and pronouns.

@arsenyi9696

Жыл бұрын

There is no limit to perfection. Нет предела совершенству.

More Efficient and quieter is amazing, great video!! Thanks

Fantastic video, I think you covered A LOT of different areas relevant to this. Good good.

Back in the 70s I ran into this toroidal propeller design in patent reseach. While attempting to design a constant torque variable pitch propeller myself. Must say I was very impressed at the time. In my own study of the toroidal design I drew the same conclusion of machine shop limitations of this design in manufacturing on a commercial level. But an extremely viable concept since the invention of 3 axis cnc machinery on an industrial scale. The shape does redefine the term of warp speed,, due to the warping of edge chines in this design.

@28russ

Жыл бұрын

From a comment above......This propeller design originates in Tasmania in 1971. It was developed by D B Sugden, an engineer consulting to The Robbins Company (a US company out of Seattle, specialists in hard rock tunnelling machines). The Robbins Company financed an R and D project lasting 2 years in collaboration with David Sugden. I joined the company in that year, thus I speak with some authority. We built and trialled a series of propellers from about 10 inch to 30 inches swept diameter. At that time the difficulty was reproduction of form, a problem which, as you point out, is overcome by CNC capabilities and 3D printing. Trials and wind tunnel testing demonstrated significant performance gains. I recall that a large prop was provided to a fishing vessel owner on the understanding he would trial it for a few months. He refused to give it up because it was so good when the trial concluded. The manufacturing difficulties of that time precluded further development..👍🙂

@keldonator

Жыл бұрын

Would casting have been too difficult?

@tomash9116

Жыл бұрын

Would this prop design be viable for aviation?

@TheGuruNetOn

Жыл бұрын

Warp speed?!! "Engage Mr Scotty...."

@mrspeigle1

Жыл бұрын

@@keldonator had the same questions.

Cavitation also is responsible for a great deal of wear and tear, shortening the service life of a propeller. Given that even smaller propellers aren't inexpensive, consider replacement costs on a cargo or military vessel.

@ZirothTech

Жыл бұрын

Great point, I didn't think of that!

@Invisiblehand123

Жыл бұрын

If we are really talking double the efficiency, it will still be worth it.

@DorsetMushroomHunter

Жыл бұрын

Submarines, silence is survival so less cavitation is a massive plus.

@ColonelSandersLite

Жыл бұрын

@@Invisiblehand123 We're not. Check the graph at 2:04. There's a big jump in efficiency at a certain RPM range but outside of that range, it's not anywhere near that big. In the 3%-7% efficiency gain ballpark. And that's *if* you trust the companies numbers and I don't think I would without 3rd party verification. That being said, *if* the company is true to it's word and *if* you're running a proper shaft in the 3500 to 4500 rpm range, it's great news. Of course, the big stuff only moves props at around 200-300 RPM so, that's well outside the range this thing is meant to help at.

@Invisiblehand123

Жыл бұрын

@@ColonelSandersLite Interesting, thank you for your input.

A video worth watching, thank you 🙏🏻

Wow what a great set of info and a great breakthrough

Being able to travel 20% farther with the same amount of fuel the boat can holy and doing it faster is quite an improvement.

@NickyNooNah99

Жыл бұрын

If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.

@noredine

Жыл бұрын

"boat can holy"? What do you mean?

@filipsperl

Жыл бұрын

If you use 20% less fuel, it makes your maximum travel distance 25% longer.

@filipsperl

Жыл бұрын

@@noredine amount of fuel the boat can hold

@dzp11177

Жыл бұрын

​@Nick Christiansen this video literally demonstrates how the propeller works and how it's better than conventional propellers

Such a cool innovation with a surprising amount of applications! Hopefully they become more cost effective in the future!

@ZirothTech

Жыл бұрын

I hope so!

@KoWoTun

Жыл бұрын

Metal 3D printing will help a lot with the cost, but it is also still in the development

@TrggrWarning

Жыл бұрын

China sez how many u want and what sizes we will deliver them by balloon.

@spacepope-1

Жыл бұрын

Yeah hopefully! $5000 for a boat prop... No thanks.

@1islam1

Жыл бұрын

@@ZirothTech ⚠️ God has said in the Quran: 🔵 { O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - ( 2:21 ) 🔴 [He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him]. ( 2:22 ) 🔵 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. ( 2:23 ) 🔴 But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.( 2:24 ) 🔵 And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally. ( 2:25 ) ⚠️ Quran

Very interesting, thanks for the heads up

My brain just blew up watching this. Fluid dynamics are rad!

A couple of thoughts that pop into my head from this: 1. I hope all the numbers presented hold up! 2. I sure as hell hope this scales up for large cargo ships. More efficient and quieter, that would be amazing. Ships already outweigh all the fish in the seas iirc, so a change like this would have a HUGE impact. 3. That noise comparison? Now imagine those being electric motors. The noise difference adds up. Insane change for the better. Love it. 4. This reminds me of a video I saw showing a potential new main wing layout for airliners that NASA is thinking of funding large-scale testing. A wing shape that is basically this shape! The wing goes out, smooth curve upwards, goes back in again to attach to the plane further back.

@thomasl2974

Жыл бұрын

I doubt this is suitable for merchant ships. Too expensive to manufacture and maintain. Development and testing for merchant solutions would likely be sky high and would put off many atempts for this solution. For the commercial shipping solutions where this could make sense the preffered choice is likely a ducted propeller, which is much easier to manufacture and probably have similar properties. The comparison to a standard fpp is therefore not valid. High saftey requirements combined with a low margin business makes shipping companies conservative in their choice of technology, so a steep hill to climb. If it would prove to have superior noise reduction qualities it might become a choice to concider as regulations might require so in certain areas. Cavitation is always also a concern. Any commercial solution on a merchant ship would require that it is repairable and this means that steel and full composites are poor choices. Any repair also needs to be possible at any repair yard. This would likely require OEM engineers and supervisors. A brass propeller would likely either not have the strength required for this kind of complex structure, especially if the ship needs to have some ice classification.

@LeelooMinai

Жыл бұрын

@@TheButlerNZ I see 105% on the chart in the video, but it's only 105% increase over the normal propeller at a specific RPM - there's nothing that breaks the laws of physics there...

@D2O2

Жыл бұрын

Low speed merchant ship props are already more efficient than high speed pleasure boat props. Study a prop curve and you will see why.

@LoisoPondohva

Жыл бұрын

@@TheButlerNZ the thumbnail says "+ 105%" for me. Not "105%". That's a big difference.

@scottluther6699

Жыл бұрын

Well I looked into this about year and a half ago and can attest to at least 1 number…. They are expensive

As someone who is looking to work on a bulk freighter on the Great Lakes, I would love to see these props tried on the large freighters. Hopefully they can make the ships even more efficient and comfortable for the crews.

@lkj1102

Жыл бұрын

Interlake is looking for people!

Nice info, thanks for sharing :)

4:30 im glad u mention the scaling up ambiguity. slammed like that moment, and i wish i already had.

Unbelievably cool and useful. How did no one think of this earlier. It's amazing how we keep finding new improvements. I'm so excited for the future!

@ninjafruitchilled

Жыл бұрын

Someone probably did think of it earlier, it's sort of an obvious idea if you start to worry about tip vortices, but it's a very complicated shape, probably only recently had good enough fluid modelling / rapid prototyping with 3D printing etc, to be able to get it to work well enough to be worth the effort.

@wagnerrp

Жыл бұрын

We've been trying this for wings since the dawn of flight, and we actually understood why it would be a good idea to do so at least a century ago. Applying it to a rotating propeller is vastly more difficult than a fixed wing.

@ianrobertson3419

Жыл бұрын

It was thought of long long ago. It's one of those things that has to wait for manufacturing to catch up. For real world applications en masse it has to be cost effective and reliable.

@SilvaDreams

Жыл бұрын

They have it's just they are only better than a normal prop or blades around a certain RPM so it's rather case specific and as he mentioned for bigger ships.. It won't scale up for them because their props are fairly low rotation.. These work best at high speeds where the tip of a normal prop is hitting super sonic (in the material) speeds.

@jackdeniston59

Жыл бұрын

$5000 v $500

The outboard boat motor have the exhaust coming out from the centre of the propeller, so there will always be bubbles there. If anyone was wondering.

@SUPERMAR10312

Жыл бұрын

Thank you

@adrianprzybyek5758

Жыл бұрын

Or we can add second propeller which nullify centrifugal force.

hey ziroth, thank you for this amazing new good news! go on

Saw this suggested for propfans a few years ago to reduce noise from planes. Very interesting idea.

I imagine that toroidal blades could be amazing on fans, both for noise and static pressure

@nethiuz9165

Жыл бұрын

Major hardware tried it, didn't beat a Noctua.

@declanfitzgerald1005

Жыл бұрын

They tried it with a rough 3d printed model which was eyeballed caus he couldn't get the schematic from MIT. Also the design that he based off was designed for a drone in open air, not the focused airflow needed in a PC case or similar. This design has potential but as mentioned in this video, it needs to be specialized for each application, as all fan designs do

@CaedenV

Жыл бұрын

Are you running fans at 2-5k rpm? Because if not, this won't help you.

@CaedenV

Жыл бұрын

@@declanfitzgerald1005 yeah... He needs to get a real printer. I'm pretty convinced a lot of the blade design submissions could beat a noctua if they didn't have horrible fdm surfaces everywhere. A lot of the designs on there would be epic with a resin printer.

@declanfitzgerald1005

Жыл бұрын

@@CaedenV Thats what annoys me with his videos and he doesn't talk about it. The tolerances he gets are terrible compared to for example noctua's with the tiny tip clearance that they needed a new material for. It's just not fair to compare fan designs when the material is so different, but he acts like that's the test and here's the conclusion, end of story.

Love to see the effects on massive ships like cargo and cruises

@larispostae42

Жыл бұрын

And on airliners, too.

@athenaluna3351

Жыл бұрын

@@larispostae42 can't aply this on jet engine.

@blackhawk7r221

Жыл бұрын

The screws on big cargo ships do not spin fast enough to have tip vortices problems

@CaedenV

Жыл бұрын

This is only helpful for small high speed propellers. Great big ships don't have big losses at the tip and are already way more efficient than this. You just can't put a big ol screw prop on a tiny little jet ski or motor boat, so this is just a good compromise.

@blindbrad4719

Жыл бұрын

I can't wait to fit these to my whaling fleet…, Gonna sneak up on those fat ass Wales no problem.

Thank you for the interesting and informative video. The comments generated are interesting too. I recall reading about a similar engineering project occurring several decades ago (also in Seattle, maybe Boeing or a subcontractor) involving a ‘ringed blade’ for rotary wing aircraft, and on smaller scale the same for replacing the conventional propeller. Also discussed were marine applications. Perhaps the challenges and costs of research, manufacturing and production at that time were not realistic. Congratulations to those who advanced this principle with modern technology and application!

Grate video, I'm amazed by that idea

2:54 I think that it would be good to point out that the RPM at the bottom of this graph is the engine rpm. So in case of the Mercury 400 L6, (the V10 model has been out for so little time that I assume it's the old L6 model) which has a 1.75:1 gear ratio, the props are actually turning at ~2300rpm at the mentioned 4000rpm engine speed.

4:47 I'd imagine the major drawback for larger aircraft is they require variable pitch props and rotary wings. But the concept is fascinating.

@levistewart5610

Жыл бұрын

you could probably just rotate the whole circle of the blade

@Pickle117

Жыл бұрын

The prop governor adjusts pitch, not the blades themselves

@outermarker5801

Жыл бұрын

@@Pickle117 Never said otherwise. The net effect is still blades the pitch of which can vary, hence the well established term "variable pitch propeller"

@outermarker5801

Жыл бұрын

@@levistewart5610 Sure, but the blades themselves are still fixed. Helicopters for instance require both to be variable.

@eastjm80

Жыл бұрын

A fan blade like this might be more useful for jet engine compressors than than prop plane propellers. There would be no need to change the angle of the attack

We need more innovation like this.

This is proof we still live with in a modern era despite how postmodern the world may seem. We are still inventing and growing our technology to this very day.

It's amazing how the toroidal propeller draws the water in from surrounding areas as shown with the dye in the water test. It would be great to see more of them and more manufactured to bring down the cost.

@mukkaar

Жыл бұрын

It seems pretty old design, and would be in wide use if some mass production would make them viable for mass use. Overall, it seems like there are significant hurdles to overcome when it comes to manufacturing. That said, with current manufacturing capabilities it should be viable to use this, especially with high value machines. But from what I gathered it's not so I assume there are some other limitations. At least taking this video at face value, improvements proposed by this design are insane, and even if the propeller was significantly more expensive, it would be worth it for many boats/ships. Especially in shipping and other commercial applications, there's just no way they would miss on significant fuel savings this would provide. So I have to say I'm suspicious that a lot of information is being left out. I just can't see manufacturing cost being an issue when it costs crazy amounts of money to fuel a large ship.

@ahndeux

Жыл бұрын

At $5000 a propeller, it cost more than my boat. Propellers have different pitch and diameters. It doesn't seem feasible for someone to have to go through multiple propellers to find the right one for their boat. Until it comes down to around $200-$400 range, only few people will buy one.

@mukkaar

Жыл бұрын

@@ahndeux For normal people and very small boats this probably isn't worth it. But moment you are using boat for commercial application, even very expensive propeller should be totally worth it if the claims in this video are true. If not for smaller boats, definitely for bigger boats and ships. So this video still kinda bothers me because looking at comments this has already been known for a long time, and despite that, if ships are not using this design there has to be some fundamental flaws with design, not the manufacturing. From quick googling, fueling something like cruise ship can cost up to one million a week, so really if you are talking about insane saving over time larger the ship becomes.

@XPLAlN

Жыл бұрын

@@ahndeux so true. What is really going on here is for your $5k they actually sell you a prop with pitch and diameter optimised for your boat/engine. Maybe there is room for a consultancy business whereby for $600 dollars you tell boat owners the optimum pitch/dia/blade number so they can go and buy the $400 conventional prop that is most efficient. And if they really care about the environment they can spend the $4k difference planting trees.

@ahndeux

Жыл бұрын

@@XPLAlN If you are a boat owner, you will know that its not easy to find an optimal propeller because the optimal RPM changes. If the boat is carrying more weight, it affects the RPM. If the boat is used for skiing vs a fishing boat, that also changes the prop setting. If you prefer a faster hole shot vs higher operating efficiency, the prop pitch also changes. Another factor to consider is the length of the boat, the hull design, the use of hydrofoils, etc, all affects the ideal prop design. Even the material the propeller is machined out of (aluminum vs stainless) makes a difference in RPM. There are just too many different variables. The best way is to swap props until you get the performance you want. That will never change. Most of my boat owner friends have 3-4 props. Some vendors allow swapping out props for a shipping fee. Let's just say this is not likely to happen with a $5K prop.

Very well done video. I’m in the aerospace industry and did some pretty intense research on these a few weeks ago… and you covered almost every point I looked into :) something interesting is that like you said, most large rotorcraft have slower spin speeds, but a neat exception is in the tail rotor of helicopters. They tend to spin pretty damn fast

@quadlawnmowerman

Жыл бұрын

suggest you talk to one of the aerospace engineers in you industry, they will soon show you why this is all rubbish, and even worse on propellers used in the air.....

@a.hammad9194

Жыл бұрын

@@quadlawnmowerman why is it rubbish?

@b0nes95

Жыл бұрын

@@a.hammad9194 because Quad Lawnmowerman sells standard props.

@a.hammad9194

Жыл бұрын

@@b0nes95 🤣🤣

@quadlawnmowerman

Жыл бұрын

@@a.hammad9194 Cause both the maths and testing shows it is a rubbish design. You would have to be pretty gullible to think they somehow made a magical 4 bladed prop that evades the laws of physics.... The basic principle at play here is to reduce the area of greatest thrust generation/loading (which is the most efficient part of the prop) by spreading it over more blades...... In other words, less thrust generated for more energy input. No aerospace/aeronautical engineer would bother to research, as soon as they saw it had more blades they would be "nope, won't be more efficient" end of story.

Anxious to try these in both tractor and pusher configurations in RC airplanes.

Brilliant, thx.

It would be interesting to see whether a variant of this would be suitable for use in energy production plants, such as wind farms or hydro electric dams

@SoMuchFacepalm

Жыл бұрын

I doubt it. That sounds like a LEDs are shitty solar panels type thing.

@craighughes404

Жыл бұрын

Wind maybe but likely not for hydro or any other application in a confined space (pipe /duct) with a cowling which already deals with this tip effect.

@phetthasonemanipakone7180

Жыл бұрын

It maybe be interesting in some energy sector. But hydropower are already highly efficient up to 95 to 97% efficiency.

@nathanmutuma7793

Жыл бұрын

@@phetthasonemanipakone7180 well sounds like we got an extra 20% of that

@bentonrp

Жыл бұрын

Or helicopters with three big doughnut blades. Wuowouwuow wouw!

Propeller efficiency is also looked at the large scale. Adam Savage did visit Archer Aviation for a demonstration of their E-VTOL demonstrator. One engineer talked about propeller noise and how to reduce it with fluid dynamics simulation. It's all about vortex shedding and tip speed. Don't forget: airliners have jet engines which blade tips (of the main fan) go supersonic - this is why they are so damn loud... ✌️ Another example: CFM RISE, which is based on the research of the GE36 UDF (his was the engine for Boeing's planned 7J7 airliner). The RISE has special external blades and static blades directly behind them. All this is geared towards efficiency and noise reduction and will come to market within the next 6-8 years. 😎

Brilliant videos Ryan. I would be interested to see the innovation into computer cooling fans. Where we aim for more sore w/ less noise.

Great video. Quito-Ecuador 🇪🇨 2023

Fantastic explanation! Glad to find someone actually explaining the physics behind why they produce less noise and improve efficiency

@gfour21

Жыл бұрын

What physics are you talking about? This is a scam. I read the paper and there is absolutely no data of any kind that support their claims. Not even the decibels which they claim it "reduces". They only showed a stupid animation, not even a simulation which requires real data. They only did it to earn a price in a MIT competition. Otherwise, where is the data?

Cool video. Great info, articulated concisely. Nice work 👍🏻

Great job on video

Use this great propeller on an electric boat, no more noise, very high efficiency. This could be the breakthrough for manned drone flight, such a natural idea, brilliant.

Very interesting , compact and well presented , thank you ! Hope , that this invention gets soon into common usage !

I hope that this sees wide scale adoption by many in the boat and aircraft industries. It looks really cool too. Thank you.

@sybrandwoudstra9236

Жыл бұрын

And the windmill industry, since high amounts of noise are a major hurdle for their acceptance.

@Moonblade042194

Жыл бұрын

Not at the price point they are selling them at

*** RESPECT= GREAT PRESENTATION

Great video!

The lower efficiency gain of the boat prop at lower rpms is probably because there’s little cavitation of the conventional prop at those speeds to begin with. Scale up the size though, and cavitation is a big problem for ships props, despite their low rpm,

@evangatehouse5650

Жыл бұрын

Big ship props don't cavitate unless somebody screwed up.

@DEtchells

Жыл бұрын

@@evangatehouse5650 Yeah, that's right of course, I should have been more clear. IF it happens, cavitation is a big problem. My thinking was that the helical design could spin faster and produce more thrust *without* cavitating :-)

I find this concept (now an actual working concept) quite fascinating. Thank you young man for educating me with your concise succint video presentation.

@gfour21

Жыл бұрын

A working concept??? This is a scam. I read the paper and there is absolutely no data of any kind that support their claims. Not even the decibels which they claim it "reduces". They only showed a stupid animation, not even a simulation which requires real data. They only did it to earn a price in a MIT competition. Otherwise, where is the data?

neat! cant wait for home fans with this design

Less noise means less drag and burning less fuel. It was a great video, weldone.

105% efficiency! You have discovered the secret of perpetual motion! Well done!

@Raussl

Жыл бұрын

at least one person saw the obvious click bait title for what it was.

@disruptivegarage

Жыл бұрын

105% compared to what. Dont let your ego obscure your judgement

@Raussl

Жыл бұрын

@@disruptivegarage read the title...doesn't say "more efficient"...literally says "efficiency". Don't let your low reading comprehension level obscure your judgement. ;)

@tauncfester3022

16 күн бұрын

@@Raussl So, what part of the hyperbole isn't using 105% in a title, and what is the base efficiency? It's like the song, " Compared to what?"

@Raussl

16 күн бұрын

@@tauncfester3022 that is not how you use the English language to express that one machine is more efficient than the other... Again, if something has a 100% or more efficiency, it creates energy from nothing.

Dude, I love this video and your format. Just educational, no "remember to like and subscribe", no sponsors or ads. Thank you!

Dude, I think you just gave me a great idea for my Master Thesis🧐❤

Informative video 👍

I would also be interested in seeing how the new prop design does in the standard pontoon environment. I.E. weedy low water level areas. Seems like pulling up to the local sand bar for a couple beers and touching the prop on the sand at a low RPM would transfer significantly more torque load to the lower unit causing significantly more damage than you would have on a traditional prop. Very cool design though and glad to see innovation on a product that seems to be unchanged for so many years.

@d_vrdlovec8724

Жыл бұрын

On a hovercraft

That's mad, always love me some efficiency. Hope these become the norm in the next 5-10 years! Less of an issue than the other aspects in the majority of cases, but would be interested to know if they are less (or more) durability in the instance of hitting something.

@ZirothTech

Жыл бұрын

Cheer for watching bro :D yea that's a great point actually, would be interested to see a 'crash test', may be harder to repair small bits of damage too

@sbdruitt

Жыл бұрын

@@ZirothTech Exactly my thoughts. I was thinking especially smaller boats that in low tide sometimes clip the sand or hit foliage it might be a potential issue. Would be interested to see how they fair up. Definitely would be ideal for passenger larger vessels! However, as you mentioned with the lower RPM, may not show the same efficiency (or noise reduction) gains as a faster rotating prop. Either way, definitely a cool and purposeful design that isn't overly complex, so there's hope it becomes cheaper to produce once it's more widely adopted!

@andyman8630

Жыл бұрын

i'd like to see them made from aluminium - they're less rigid and while they would damage more easily, they'd also be easier to repair

@charleslyster1681

Жыл бұрын

My initial impression is they would be harder to damage than a conventional prop.

@andyman8630

Жыл бұрын

@@charleslyster1681 and considerably harder to repair

Interesting, never heard of these👍

I've always swam under water with my hand to my side with my hands cupped while moving them in a figure eight motion. Feet strait out and still. Amazing results.

Thank you for this great little video I had never seen these propellers before. I hope to see more drones using them in the future due to the significant reduction of noise and the increased efficiency which should also lead to an increase in flight time.

@shareurtube

Жыл бұрын

I would like to second that. A very interesting video.

Thank you for this video. This looks like a huge advancement. Looking forward to seeing how scaling their size to cargo ships impacts design and performance. I want to see how manufacturing progresses on all scales above 3d prininting. This seems ideal for fluid dynamics modeling software.

Thank you

scrunchie like the... nice design 👍

Since a few years back now ive been drawing propellers in this exact shape, but my gf always just finds em amusing. ”Looks simple enough, dont you think people would have made it already”. Im happy to see it actually works! Cheers :)

WOW... real practical information about innovation. GREAT video, Sir. This is a real change. Even as a personal boater, the lower noise profile alone would be worth the cost. As a commercial application, the economy over time makes the initial cost negligible. I have a hard time understanding why this won't become standard within a decade.

Even though I didn't know about this propeller technology, but I've already experimented with basically the same thing, was playing around in SolidWorks, making odd shapes as propellers

It addresses an significant inefficiency in propellers, the "leakage" of fluid from the high pressure side to the low pressure side. It is this leakage that produces tip vortices. Commercial Jet Engines use the stator duct to prevent these "leaks" while high aspect ratio blades are used to minimise them. These toroidal blades avoid having tips, reducing the opportunity for "leaks". A very good idea! Hope it succeeds at an affordable price.

I hope to see this fascinating new approach of propeller design proving to be an actual step forward and a viable option in many applications. Looking forward to further information on where this is going.

@quadlawnmowerman

Жыл бұрын

not a new design, not used due to being very inefficient...

@russellking9762

Жыл бұрын

@@quadlawnmowerman inefficient in what way…please explain??

@quadlawnmowerman

Жыл бұрын

@@russellking9762 Read a 101 on prop design, to over simplify for people who can't grasp the basics. The most efficient prop is a single blade, but that is a pain to use so we go to 2 blades to make balancing and mounting easy. The only reason to add more blades is due to limitations of either size or rotational speed (or in some very limited cases a greater disc area for more "grip" and initial acceleration in say an aerobatic drone where the sacrificed efficiency and top speed are irrelevant). So with 2 blades we generate an amount of thrust (lets say 10NM) for a set amount of energy (lets say 100W to keep round figures), when we add a 3rd blade we up our thrust by about 30%, but we cost another extra 60W of energy, add a 4th blade (which is what this toroid is) and gain another 20% thrust, and cost another extra 75W of power. Every extra blade creates less thrust per blade and costs more energy to drive. This is then magnified by the fact the main trust generating part of a prop blade is not generating thrust in a toroid (at the ends of the blades). Add on top of this the overlap in the blades and you now have one of the least efficient forms of thrust generation, and is only effective in thrust generation at much lower speeds before stalling. So you have a prop that cost more energy to drive, delivers less thrust and is severely limited in its rotational speed....

Quality video on a genuinely interesting topic, no annoying adverts or click bait, great work man! 👍

Thank you for the video. The elimination of blade tip cavitation is critical to a submarine remaining undetected by enemy navies. As a submarine veteran, I am interested in the reduction of the noise signature should a toroidal propeller be tested on nuclear powered submarines. With all of the money that has previously been spent by the U.S. Navy on super quiet propeller designs, it's amazing that this hasn't been thought of before, or perhaps it has.

One of the most fascinating things about this is that it can be retrofitted to just about anything. As soon as the manufacturing reaches reasonable scale you relatively inexpensively put it into any system (as opposed to putting in a new engine for example) I look forward to seeing this tried at a larger scale to see if the increased scaling of weight (for example a full size helicopter blade) would negatively impact effectiveness. The other portion of this that I'm unfamiliar with is how does this system load, helicopter blades flex rather extensively right now and if this shape isn't able to do that and is therefore going to require it to be more built out certain applications might be ineffective. This is one of those discoveries that makes me scratch my head about how much sooner we might have been able to achieve certain things if we had known about it from the outset

@jamesha175

Жыл бұрын

i think that helicopters change the pitch/attack angle of individual blades so probably it wouldn't work out

Very Interesting, as ships engineer and Superintendent for very large vessels this would be something I would like to try out on one of my vessels.

@HTV-2_Hypersonic_Glide_Vehicle

Жыл бұрын

Nice Suzuki bike and BMW car collection

@norseman5041

Жыл бұрын

@@HTV-2_Hypersonic_Glide_Vehicle Tks!

Excellent, I can see them being applied to wind and hydro energy generation as well

@heyhoe168

Жыл бұрын

Probably, but not likely. It work best on in high speed area.

bravo ! amazing !

That's impressive

A shrouded fan (like you might find in a jet engine or computer fan application) doesn't produce tip vorticies. And, there may be an aerodynamic limit to its use in drones and as a main rotor of a helicopter because those applications demand the prop be moved laterally through the air, not parallel with the direction of travel. The blade going from advancing to retreating might suffer signficant drag at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions.

This is awesome, and the type of thing that needs to happen more: small incremental changes that yield gains in efficiency, but across more areas, would lead to massive gains across society.

This is genius, what a clean design.

Great to see such a design come to life. Alistair mentioned it originates from 1971 so my guess is that it was just unsuitable to manufacture so far. This is not uncommon, e.g. there were similar ideas for "infinite" wings that remove tip vortices all together simply because there is no tip.

As I think of it, this brings in mind the venturi effect between staysails, or between mainplane and slot on a fixed wing aircraft, as the accelerated flow stream draws slower particles toward lamellar flow, rather than turbulent dispersion. I wonder what effect they could have in a turbofan or bypass fan aero engine.

On a ducted fan application, the results are comparable, but the noise reduction is still impressive.

Cool stuff

Amazing

Great presentation on an awesome development! I could definitely see this being used in the future

I'd like to hear more about who first invented / developed these and how. It seems like such a major breakthrough - why wasn't this known earlier?

good invention and meny advantage ...i love it ...good luck ;KADATIS from Algeria...

These props have been around for years.. If they were that much better, many outboards would have them... I think the problem is at the tip of the prop there is a area that produces no lift, but does add drag as the tips are going the fastest. This can be done with a reg prop with washout, but if that worked all props would have that too.

@DC_DC_DC_DC

Жыл бұрын

this

@fajile5109

Жыл бұрын

All drills have a chuck But they dont all have internal components to make them last longer. The ones with less parts are far cheaper. I wonder why people buy them?

Fascinating stuff, the side by side sound comparison of the two boat props is a dramatic difference in sound level, I wonder if that holds true in the air, I'd be interested in hearing a side by side drone comparison. This has a wide range of applications; helicopters, fixed wing aircraft, shop fans, leaf blowers, hair dryers. The shape of recent submarine props are classified because our advisories could calculate the subs capabilities and at what sound frequencies they could track them, I wonder if another reason they are concealed from view is because they have a very unique design such as this. If so, this technology could have trickled down, been declassified, due to common knowledge by our advisories, I'm spitballing here but, it's possible.

@theodoreolson8529

Жыл бұрын

Can we talk about your cool moniker? Nice going frawg.

@SpaceFrawg

Жыл бұрын

@@theodoreolson8529 Thanks. I'm just your average, everyday frawg... from space.

@Benjicmm

Жыл бұрын

I would also keep in mind that a more efficient propeller means they are likely achieving the same speed with less engine rpm. That difference in engine rpm is probably responsible for most of the noise reduction.

@wagnerrp

Жыл бұрын

Fans, leaf blowers, and hair dryers are all ducted. You don't need a toroidal closed airfoil to reduce tip vorticies. On a fixed wing aircraft, this would be a biplane, which is inherently less efficient due to interaction of the two wings, and only makes sense under other constraints, such as wingspan limits or structural rigidity. Helicopters just want big long rotors, for the same reason as wings.

@RSCamaroBlack

Жыл бұрын

Is the difference in sound really that big of a deal?

First thought was to its possbile applications on unmaned drones such as the MQ-1, the ability to more air with less power on the MQ-1 would vastly improve range while making it much more stealthy meaning its uses could be expanded past small precision ordinance.

Nice video, expertly presented and illustrated . This was a nice explanation of an exciting new development in propellers which evidently has some very significant advantages in performance and efficiency. I'm wondering if there is a potential application for wind turbines for power generation. I can just envisage turbines with smaller diameter and lower height with evident economic savings . There would be questions of efficiency , and of course manufacturing complexity and costs. Judging by the evidence of the engineers involved in researching the toroidal design I think it wouldn't take long for them to evaluate the possibilities.

It’s an amazing innovation! Hoping to see it industrialised and used in the near future. I wonder also if prop turbines can be used in windmill electrical generators.

When talking about efficiencies and throwing in numbers like *+105%* you should always look at the definition of what they mean with efficiency in this case. Because it is very easy to play around with these numbers.

@stevenclark1243

Жыл бұрын

Yep, I'm not even going to watch it because 105% is nonsense, so I assume most of the video is dubious too.

This may be good to retrofit in heart pump machines because the noise of traditional propellers is known to contribute to hemolysis (destruction of red blood cells).

Every application where you have a fan, from desk fans to extractor fans could use this. While it's still more expensive, ventilating tunnels and improving transport is great. But there is an enormous market if it becomes cheaper!

@destombe

5 ай бұрын

You are right. This is the question....mass adoption or hoarding of the intellectual property....or rights to the design. If the intellectual property owner (IP) allows the technology/design to be used and make less, then she or he will win and humanity will win with her/him.