Everything goes right - Linus: "See I told you!" Everything goes wrong - Linus: "See I told you!"

@titaniumwo1f390

4 жыл бұрын

Everything goes left - Linus: "See I told you!"

@6slimying4

4 жыл бұрын

WHAT!? 24:00

@azureknight777

4 жыл бұрын

aka "how to act like a boss"

@idk-iu8vn

4 жыл бұрын

Everything goes up - Linus “See I told you!” Everything goes down - Linus “See I told you!”

@DaimyoD0

4 жыл бұрын

Linus would make a really shitty Mythbuster

Alex: pays thousands of dollars towards an engineering degree Also Alex: Chop chop the bottom bit

@desekrt0r

3 жыл бұрын

Gotta use laymans terms for non-tech

@Trancelebration

3 жыл бұрын

To be honest - everything he does (at least what we can see in the videos) is very sketchy engineering-wise :D Degree wont help at all if somebody cant think like an engineer...

@yuriibondar3757

3 жыл бұрын

@@Trancelebration dude built buggies and stuff, the point of this videos is to do something sketchy, not a new super product

@Trancelebration

3 жыл бұрын

@@yuriibondar3757 Using AC SSR for DC and pretending its funny isnt sketchy, its straight stupid :)

@Trancelebration

3 жыл бұрын

@@emmaisalone yet they have time to play with cfd module inside solidworks premium package which takes a lot of time. I know I know... it has to be just "good enough".

Your peltie uses 900W to transfer heat. That means you have to be able to cool at least that amount with the water block. If you don't, both side start to heat.

@anubhavmuku96

4 жыл бұрын

@@xsjado_anon TEC Coolers have extremely poor thermal conductivity. They also have extremely poor efficiency. They have efficiency that put solar panels to shame, so what that means is - A 545W TEC can only move 5.45W ( ~10% like ultra super max level stuff), and to do that, it generates 539.5W of heat. Now coming back to thermal conductivity, that measly 5.45W of heat to be moved is limited by its thermal resistance, so what it means is it takes way longer to move that measly 5.45W of heat compared to a block of damn iron, much less a proper copper heat block. So, bottom line: you wanna freeze a few ml of water into ice spending hundreds of watts? Be my guest, and I assure it will work as long as you can dissipate those hundreds of watts. But Peltiers can never move enough thermal power from a strong af dynamic heat(one that continuously converts energy into heat, in contrast ambient temperature water that we were making ice out of before does not continuously compensate temperature since its heat energy is gone once it cools) source like a CPU. (And if you really wanna do it, like reaallllly badly wanna do it, for every 100W(around that for a TDP?) of cooling on the cpu you need around 100W/0.05(eff) = 2000W of peltier units, and heat dissipation capacity of 1900W and your peltier should would prolly still not be able to work out due to problems in thermal conductivity. LOL, this was a long rant, but will prolly save some idiot his money. PS - Imma just post it in main thread too, just in case so people can see it..

@AryaFairywren

4 жыл бұрын

@@anubhavmuku96 wait, 5.45W ain't 10% of 545W, that'd be 54.5W.

@anubhavmuku96

4 жыл бұрын

@@AryaFairywren Ah yes, right. My bad. Well, the bottom line still stays the same tho.

@1992jamo

3 жыл бұрын

@@anubhavmuku96 While their efficiency isn't as good as a gas transition heat pump, it's a bit unfair to to compare performance if you're running the TEC at 545W because that displays a complete lack of understanding of how to utilize them. The coefficient of performance of a TEC scales badly. For example I'll use the TE-127-2.0-1.15 module. If you run the TEC at 3v, you can pump ~25W of heat, with around 35W of waste heat with a temp difference of 10 degrees each side. If you run the TEC at 15v, you can pump ~110W of heat, without around 350W of waste heat with a temp difference of 10 degrees each side. That's 10x the wattage, for only 4x the amount of heat it can move from the cold side. That's why it's insane to run a TEC at 545W, it's much more efficient to run many of them at low wattage.

@Trancelebration

3 жыл бұрын

True. And there is no way that this little block can cool 500W.

I love Alex's face when Linus is speaking to the camera. The face of a kid who's waiting for their parent to finish talking with their friend.

@frivolity4614

2 жыл бұрын

The face of someone who has witnessed many many horrors.

+2 points for the solidworks flow demo and real engineering talk. More of that please tyvm.

@trif55

4 жыл бұрын

if only they tried with a more serious cooling solution on the TEC

@jzxynow2a8gs21

4 жыл бұрын

-10 for the TEC on CPU, and crippling the heat transfer with an Insulator.

@yoyodavid

4 жыл бұрын

i'm taking classes on Solid works and simulation rn

@hansdietrich83

4 жыл бұрын

@@yoyodavid ok, but who cares?

@yoyodavid

4 жыл бұрын

@@hansdietrich83 nice way to be a dick

You'd be better off putting the TEC cooling on the radiator to get lower than ambient, then you'd need another water cooler just to cool the TEC plate. You could get the water as cold as you want and not even worry about condensation.

@DancingCorpse

4 жыл бұрын

We're getting into Nuclear Reactor type cooling setups now. This is the LTT experiment that needs to happen.

@aDifferentJT

4 жыл бұрын

That’d be cool

@j4nn1k_51

4 жыл бұрын

Same idea man xD

@chieftron

4 жыл бұрын

This is EXACTLY what I was going to say, this is how the Coolit tec coolers work. I still use a Coolit Freezone Elite and it works amazing after 12 years. I did have to replace the pump once but the peltiers are still working great. And that cooler can easily take up to 350w of cooling and it's in a small form factor. If they adapted that method with those radiators, it would be able to easily cool 1800w. Hell those radiators ALONE should be able to take 1200-1500w with just fans. If implemented properly that setup should be able to keep that whole system including sli gpus in the water loop around ambient temps on load.

@TheVenerableMrKrieg

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, but... What if you get condensation in your water?

I like to think that Linus knows all of his sponsors off by heart and all he needs is someone to tell him what the sponsors is.

16:10 their funnel has a label saying "FUNNEL"

@MrRedinator_

3 жыл бұрын

They also have a hammer labeled "HAMMER"

@zurbruggg

3 жыл бұрын

Well what would _you_ do to remember what it is?

@itsomegali5342

3 жыл бұрын

its for people who dont know this stuff better to just label everything.

@fur_avery

3 жыл бұрын

@@itsomegali5342 who tf doesnt know what a funnel or a hammer looks like

@dmmikerpg

3 жыл бұрын

When you have a label maker, everything gets labeled. Everything.

"There's no way we can just finish like this" [HARD CUT TO SPONSORS]

@peeperization

4 жыл бұрын

It was perfect. ^^

Linus: "It was a learning experience" Alex: "Yeah" Linus: "About listening to your boss next time" . . . . . . Alex: "WHAT?"

@Desser57

4 жыл бұрын

"does not compute"

@karikrummi4222

4 жыл бұрын

@@Desser57sléttu sléttu

@bhew7409

4 жыл бұрын

I'm with Alex in that one

@ImMonoToast

4 жыл бұрын

@@karikrummi4222 why is it flat

@karikrummi4222

4 жыл бұрын

@@ImMonoToast song

May I suggest you try using a logic level mosfet next time instead of a solid state relay, Alex? Because as you probably found out during the making of this video, you cannot use a solid state relay to switch DC 🙄🤣 They can only be used to switch AC waveforms that cross through zero. A solid state relay (henceforth SSR) is nothing more than a triac with an additional zero crossing detection circuit. Although they are very different, the triac component in a SSR performs a function similar to that of a mosfet; where, for example, an active logic signal causes a current to flow. A very important difference between a mosfet and a triac is that once latched (and conductive) the triac cannot unlatch (and return to a state of isolation) unless the AC waveform crosses through zero, where as a mosfet can unlatch at will. This is the function of the zero crossing detection circuit; all it does is ensure that if the triacs logic signal becomes active somewhere halfway through the AC waveform, the actual latching of the triac is delayed until the waveform once again crosses through zero. Latching at any other point during the AC waveform has the serious potential of resulting in an enormous (potentially triac destroying) current surge immediately upon latching. Unless you're lucky, and the triac happens to latch precisely at the zero crossing point of the AC waveform, after which the current is allowed to rise gradually with the voltage. _[Important note: just as a triac is unsuitable for switching DC, a mosfet is unsuitable for switching AC!]_ I hope this clears things up a bit 😁 I know the chance you'll read this is so low I might as well be talking to a wall, but perhaps there is a slight chance another soul will come and stumble across this information and find it useful somehow. Who knows, they might potentially even learn something 😊 (If I made a mistake please correct me in a reply to this comment _in a friendly manner please_ and I'll happily modify this comment!)

@jakublulek3261

Жыл бұрын

It seems that Alex, just like me, is a mechanical engineer. We know very little about electricity (I've had like 2 classes in university for one semester). I learned everything what I know when I was working in electronic retail shop as my first job. I did my master's degree on Meredith's effect and pressure carburetors!

@capn_shawn

Жыл бұрын

SSR's work just fine with DC signals and do not require any zero crossing. There are IGBT, Mosfet and Bipolar versions from different manufacturers. You are thinking of an AC-only Solid State Relay... basically an optically isolated triac. Crydom D2D40 is a perfect example.

@BalintNandori

Жыл бұрын

They could have just avoided the high current switching by using the enable pin on the power supply

I think it's hilarious that linus doesn't know who the sponsor is and then someone tells him and he always immediately knows what to say about about it.

@MaxIronsThird

Жыл бұрын

ad read was off-screen, as in he didn't do it on the spot.

Forget the thermoelectric effect. Hook that sucker up to the compressor on an actual AC unit.

@harambeexpress

4 жыл бұрын

Linus has an AC unit based system (that does work).

@asm_nop

4 жыл бұрын

It's been done and it's very effective. Only problem is size of the machine.. it's about as big as the system it's cooling.

@SGIMartin

4 жыл бұрын

didn't asetek do double phase pc coolers at one point? I have a single phase built in a case, that runs on 12v - very effective on the Athlon 64 x2 it cooled at the time!

@Quietruck

4 жыл бұрын

Check out Retrohardware channel. he does that very thing.

@dacid44

4 жыл бұрын

See, the thing is, they’re not doing this because its a good idea. They do it because they can.

I did my HS physics project on TECs and I found that one of the biggest problems with them is that their faces are not flat at all and since they are ceramic they are difficult to flatten so I had to compensate with globs of thermal paste and even then it was bad plus hot side temps matter almost as much as cold side since a high delta caused by insufficient cooling leads to heat leaking to the cold side lowering efficiency. Future improvement could be done by flattening the TEC with an end-mill or facing on a lathe, stacking TECs, and direct contact vs an additional copper plate(that slot for the thermal-couple wasn't helping anything.

@MegaSchoolman

4 жыл бұрын

It'd probably be better to lap the surfaces with a diamond cutting compound.

@impuls60

4 жыл бұрын

So.. liquid metal^^

@eklhaft4531

4 жыл бұрын

About the piece of copper in between: I thought that too but then there would be no way to regulate the temperature.

@trob_12

4 жыл бұрын

:)

@loudaagoo

4 жыл бұрын

I was going to say, what if they removed the bottom plate and liquid metaled it the bottom of the ceramic direct to the cpu ? They never checked if the bottom plate was getting cold only the hot side

Have you never heard of the 437w Arctic Web TEC? I ran one for years on my C2Q9300 (and still have it). Used a heater core for a radiator with an electric car radiator fan running on 5v to cool it. Fed the 24v peltier with ~15v and got a below-freezing idle temp, with about 15C full-load temp with a 1Ghz overclock. Insulated the motherboard around the CPU (both front and back) as well as coating it with dielectric grease to protect the board from condensation.

18:42 My favorite part of the video, it was totally necessary!

For future reference, get a CO2 extinguisher. It will still put out the fire, but wont hose your expensive GPU.

@Danielsvensson37

4 жыл бұрын

and maybe remove the safty pin too..... ;)

@Z3DT

4 жыл бұрын

CO2 extinguishers don't work for electrical fires. For those, you need to get a powder extinguisher. Which would, by the way, still hose your expensive GPU.

@christopherkidwell9817

4 жыл бұрын

@@Z3DT Maybe not... as long as the powder is not thermal conductive, a quick clean and the GPU should still work.

@Chickenchaser32

4 жыл бұрын

@@Z3DT just grabbed one of my extinguishers. An FE36 will work. Rated B,C so it will work on electrical fires. So no nuking components =D

@JoshuaBurgess

4 жыл бұрын

@@Z3DT Read the label. CO2 extinguishers were designed for electrical fires. They do not work on grease fires.

"There's no way we can just finish like this" *Finishes just like this

@SM121982

4 жыл бұрын

womp womp

@TheDjPezzz

4 жыл бұрын

i thought it you said it...

@LaFaJe

4 жыл бұрын

...waiting for a #3.

Interesting. I'd often wondered about using a Peltier for PC cooling, but not directly on the CPU. My thought was to use it more passively, in conjunction with a fan at the front or rear of the case to cool the air flowing into the case by 5 or 10 degrees while drawing only minimal power. The idea being that if the air being supplied to your standard air- or water-based CPU cooling rig is slightly cooler than ambient, you would see some increase in the performance of your cooling rig overall. Kind of like keeping servers in an air conditioned room, but in this case using a little modular box on the back of the case to create the AC effect. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this, Linus.

"award winning templates" I 100% want to go to the awards ceremony for best web developing templates.

Why not cool the water instead of the processor with a bunch of peltiers?

@mrrooter601

4 жыл бұрын

though the same thing, if this isnt the next thing they try it will probably be forgotten. cooling water would definitely work tho.

@H3nryum

4 жыл бұрын

Build a buffer of cold water and in normal use it would work great, gaming for 24 hours or even 8 hours would probably overwhelm it

@mohawkade

4 жыл бұрын

I second this!

@4.0.4

4 жыл бұрын

@@H3nryum not if you cool it with normal radiators before going extra with peltiers after those.

@smalltime0

4 жыл бұрын

I was just about to say this, you can run it at full power even. Just do a thermal coil of some sort into the radiator

Linus: "we need it to spread the cooling" Alex: *silently cringing in the distance*

@oicfas4523

4 жыл бұрын

Alex looks so cute around that section. At 4:09.

@jkazos

4 жыл бұрын

It's as bad as when someone explains transistors by saying "the holes move".

You're right about thermodynamics is in play here, specifically the latent heat of vaporization of H2O. There's an inherent heat storage capacity to water that isn't there for the Peltier device. There's also the phenomenon of the difference between laminar flow vs. turbulent flow of water in a heat exchanger. If you have laminar flow through your water block, you can generate micro bubbles of steam in the water; that steam infused water can then be pulled away from the water block's heat exchange surfaces. In turn, the micro bubbles of steam infused in the water collapse and spread and disperse the thermal energy in the water downstream from the water block. That's the "inherent" heat storage capacity of water I was referring to earlier. That's what makes water coolers superior to Peltier devices or tech cooler devices, imo.

Instead of trying to cool with the peltier directly you should try to use a standard water cooled loop setup but after the water has cooled in the radiator it should pass true the peltier then and get cooled to ambient or even sub ambient.

@DutchHollandLowz

5 ай бұрын

DO THIS

I dunno but linus is addicted to pc cooling

@TugAndThugComputing

4 жыл бұрын

💯%

@the_guy_with_yeeyee_a_haircut

4 жыл бұрын

@@TugAndThugComputing Johnny Johnny did you forget to change your account ?

@Agant.

4 жыл бұрын

You mean he's addicited to making PC.. cooler? :DDDDDD

@TugAndThugComputing

4 жыл бұрын

@@the_guy_with_yeeyee_a_haircut uh

@TugAndThugComputing

4 жыл бұрын

@@Agant. mostly yess :D

The relay itself is the problem: First, it's for AC power and expects the voltage to turn zero at some point. It turns off in the zero crossing. DC voltage never turns to zero, so the relay will never turn off. Also, it has a 1.6 volt voltage drop, so the peltier gets only 10.4 volts. Please use a MOSFET next time. It will work way better, and we get to see even more sketchy LTT electronics. I love these videos!

@emperorSbraz

4 жыл бұрын

do you expect LTT to actually know how to wire a mosfet? inb4 they use it in the linear zone and blow it up..

@DocTime56

4 жыл бұрын

@@emperorSbraz Alex looks like a pretty capable guy, in the case he didn't know, he'd be capable of wiring a MOSFET correctly with a Google search. It's just they don't care of doing this kind of projects more correctly, the concept is pointless to begin with

@FlameRat_YehLon

4 жыл бұрын

I assume the relay is a dumb component controlled by the thermo controller, which outputs the PID pulse to switch the relay (that switch the power). Therefore I'm not sure if it really matters if it is for controlling AC or DC.

@TheBozzler

4 жыл бұрын

I assume he used the PID as a modulating ( on/off) controller to drive the relay. Rather than a PI control loop. Doesn't look like it would of mattered tho.

@Electroblud

4 жыл бұрын

@@FlameRat_YehLon Solid state relays are usually just a box with a thyristor inside. Thyristors can turn a current on, but they cannot turn it off. Only useful for AC since the current goes to zero 100 (120) times per second. With DC, the current doesn't go through zery by itself, thus the thyristor doesn't turn off.

Watching back these older vids it's interesting to see how your production has improved; use of wide shots for conversations, audio mix with the background music being lower, and less filming of computer monitors to explain concepts all help the videos flow better, and probably make the editors jobs easier. Just goes to show that even the best still have room to improve. These videos are great, but your current stuff is even more refined.

*Linus* - "tech cooling is and was a bad idea" *Intel / cooler master* - "Hold our beers"

@phillstevenson4931

3 жыл бұрын

Linus - "were gonna use tec, in the worst possible way you can"

@hosseinhoveysi745

3 жыл бұрын

@@phillstevenson4931 they really did the worst possible design they could. The copper part on top of the tec for water cooling it -that was actually obvious its not gonna dump the heat- was a beautiful, neat, amazing mess 😂

It’s rated at 32 amps, and we’re expecting 32 amps... Yeah, I’m just going to stand back here, behind the plexiglass, with the fire extinguishers. Always use things that are rated for a higher load than what you are expecting. Helps keep things from burning and exploding.

@MmMerrifield

4 жыл бұрын

yeah, don't you generally only run about 80% of a wire's maximum rating for safety?

@CodeHerder

4 жыл бұрын

@@MmMerrifield There are rating for continuous use. Using exactly the gauge rating is not it ;)

@georgibaldjiev4469

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah... a fire extinguisher with the safety pin still in it. Very useful in case of electrical fires, I tell you.

Who buys an expensive tap then doesn't use a vice?

@NicoIsntHere

4 жыл бұрын

alisdair butler it wouldn’t be LTT without some jenk

@lukewhite9237

4 жыл бұрын

The funny thing is they have a vice

@Krydolph

4 жыл бұрын

Linus - because what you fail to understand is, it only has to be "straight enough" - stop fussing over doing it right when you can do it janky.

@AugmentedKing

4 жыл бұрын

My guess is people who are better at using software than tools? I am hoping to meet me someone who is good at everything, let me know if you find them.

@Darknes2DWC

4 жыл бұрын

@@AugmentedKing They're called engineers

The best method I have found linus is a thermostat plugging in the power supply for the peltier. Having the thermal couple in the water, preferably in the reservoir of your loop. Simple as setting a target temp for you water..

I loved the ambition of the "wole-room" series. I mean you've come a long way in knowing why that can't work but it was still a brilliantly disastrous test.

Linus 2019: 'A PID controller is like an On/Off switch' Linus 2020: 'A computer is like a spinich'

@user-iq3dh6um2y

4 жыл бұрын

Linus 2021: A spinach is like a rock

@QPUNeptune

4 жыл бұрын

Linus 2022: A rock is like a stone

@AaronzDad

4 жыл бұрын

Linus 2023: Weekends are like applesauce

@HaydenX

4 жыл бұрын

@@AaronzDad "Weekends are like Applesauce" sounds like a Dave Barry book title.

@hawaiianryan1890

4 жыл бұрын

For those who have not heard of PID controllers, it's more like a smart, variable power supply that goes positive and negative.

"There is no way we can just finish like this" DO YOU NEED A BEAUTIFUL WEBSITE WITHOUT ALL THAT HASSLE?

As suggested by some commenters, it would be way better to cool the water using the TEC and stay within its maximum efficiency zone. More power doesn't mean more cooling. You'll have to dump that heat the TEC is generating somewhere or it will start to heat up. Cool the CPU loop radiator with multiple TECs and cool the multiple TECs with another loop. That way the CPU block should receive cooler water and the TECs dump their heat into another radiator so it doesn't interfere with the CPU loop. In theory, this _should_ work as long as you don't overdrive the TECs.

Glad I found this video. I was about to try this. Saves me the trouble.

20:52 this whole part seems very similar to the chernobyl accident...

@AndreiTache

3 жыл бұрын

“We’re at 900 watts on this thing!”

@zesomeone4078

3 жыл бұрын

@@AndreiTache now add Mega before watts

Overpowering peltier module raises its temperature instead of dropping it if heat removal isn't ideal.

@wobblysauce

4 жыл бұрын

There is a fine line of goodness.

@bgugi

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly this - at high power a TEC just becomes a resistive heater on both sides.

@guydevries8197

4 жыл бұрын

The water block is so thin

@JimBob1937

4 жыл бұрын

You're correct, I'm pretty sure the seebeck effect exists even if overpowered passed it's specifications, but it becomes that much harder to cool (resistive heating increases at a faster rate than the cooling effect) and the delta between the two sides decrease as the hot isn't cooled at a fast enough rate. The resistive heating effects always exist in it, that is why the final cooling solution needs to be able to cool a thermal load that is the peltier + the object being cooled.

@JimBob1937

4 жыл бұрын

@@guydevries8197, the massive of the water block isn't necessarily that important. The mass just effects the blocks heat capacity, but the main importance is the interface between the fluid and block, which is actually what moves the thermal energy out of the system.

I'll be honest, I think Whole Room Water Cooling was one of the best things ever, and I want a new version of it. I don't know what they could do at this point, but I think it was an awesome idea, and could absolutely work. I've seen similar setups work extremely well with only a couple computers, and LTT has the capacity and means to do a "whole room" unlike so many others. Some day I hope they do a 2.0, or have a reason to. Maybe just not the editors den..

EKWB finally released a good version. comes out next month. It was the "mystery box" linus used to get the 10900k to 5.7 ghz. EK quantumX Delta TEC cooler.

Thought for sure they would cause a brownout on the west coast.

@Combatpzman

4 жыл бұрын

From only 900w? A microwave at full power is often over 1200w.

@ZpeedTube

4 жыл бұрын

@@Combatpzman Not sure if you are being ironic, but the microwave only runs for few minutes (usually), that thing is supposed to be on for hours. ;)

@dumpsterdawg

4 жыл бұрын

@@Combatpzman Anything is possible when Linus is involved.

@Combatpzman

4 жыл бұрын

@@ZpeedTube Nothing ironic about it. The point is that in the grand scheme of things 900w is nothing. Is it a lot for a desktop computer meant for home use? Of course. For example A small window AC unit, which people run for hours, typically operates between 900-1200W depending on how hard it needs to work. A large outdoor unit would far exceed that. As would say your household oven, a washing machine, and more.

@mal2ksc

4 жыл бұрын

@Combatpzman Amplifiers used for concerts are usually 1500 to 3000W, and they are often running ten or more of them at the same time.

Also, if you push too much heat into the TEC, it becomes an insulator.

@Krydolph

4 жыл бұрын

You must have watched the last video they did on them!

@TheSkepticSkwerl

4 жыл бұрын

@Owl Gaming no, it means they work. You should do it.

@6ixpool520

4 жыл бұрын

@Owl Gaming *whoosh*

Always a great video Linus. Never give up,and I hope you continue to find great ideas for videos without losing your passion for pcs, and stuff.

Love that discussion about confidence at 16:21 :D

"So the block design is working as intended- OH MY GOD WHAT IS GOING ON HERE!"-Linus in a nutshell

@PhaseFalcon

3 жыл бұрын

I only hit the left arrow key to rewatch that about 20 times, ya know. the usual.

@hammyboigaming904

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhaseFalcon same lol

"we have a tap wrench." *Proceeds to use it without a vise.*

@TAVSWHBIII

4 жыл бұрын

Also doesn't lubricate it...

Did Peltier cooling back when it was needed, more than 10 years ago. Had one of the massive aluminum Lian Li cases with room for 12 hard drives on the bottom. After the cpu or gpu you send the water to a radiator. Which then feeds the reservoir. This brings the water to roughly room temp. Then you cool the water, with a different pump system cooling the peltiers. All in all, 3 x 3 fan radiators and 1 x 2 fan. With a 1 gallon res. 1250 watt EVO galaxy PSU and 450 watt Thermaltake side by side psu. Peltiers took about 600 W in total. Anyways, give the system the same cooling as a radiator first then cool it with peltiers. Don't remember the Intel CPU. but it was stock clocked at 3.2 with 4 cores(best cpu at the time was 3.6x4). With radiator alone water cooling could hit 4.2 stable. With peltiers the way I stated, it would go up to 4.8 stable and all the way to 5.4 (unstable). The only reason I would pull my old case out of storage and do this again, is I had money to throw away. Air cooled with a decent set up works today. These are no longer the days where Crysis made your system have a mental breakdown.

Now this are video's that i like to see! You just almost perfectly proofed the working of it and made and designed yourself! Loved it👌🏻👌🏻 We used 4 TECs with a thick copper plate on a oc'd Athlon 1700.. there is now way that one TEC is going to cool a cpu of this time. PS. 15 years ago I used to go to the junkyard, get a piece of copper, made it fit, bore holes and placed plexi with my own soldered leds in to it😁

Next video: Can you cool a PC with radiators from the ISS?

@96Assassine

4 жыл бұрын

„After telling you about our sponsor: NASA!“

@russ18uk

4 жыл бұрын

Overclocking from the dark side of the moon.

@polygorg

4 жыл бұрын

Well with this we were able to reach temperatures around 10K...

@stephengeorgejaocb6326

4 жыл бұрын

I know it's a joke, but normal radiators won't work in space

@RaskaTheFurry

4 жыл бұрын

What about Water cooled Mobo ..... Mobo literally in water... 100% heat transfer, nothing wasted.

Alex: There’s no way we can just finish like this. Linus: *smiles* *AD STARTS PLAYING*

I am designing a cooling system for a giant telescope mirror. I never thought that LTT would be a resource I would use to design the thing. You guys are the best!

Linus TEC Tips

GEOTHERMAL cooled pc. It might be just crazy enough.

@Nathan-te7qr

4 жыл бұрын

While we're doing that lets put a PC in outer space

@lonie-andresbalaban4618

4 жыл бұрын

Do you know that that would pretty much mean heating the pc rather than cooling it

@kot3405

4 жыл бұрын

not really if the water or whatever is like 25* it might actually work

@SimplyNon_sense

4 жыл бұрын

Microsoft did it off Ireland. Works great.

@ChaosBW

4 жыл бұрын

Already been done actually.. A few years ago some startup company created a bitcoin mining facility inside a mountain. The mountain already had a building tunneled out inside as it used to be an old Russian military base. The temperature is so low inside that they have no cooling.

There's no way that little water flow can stop it from overhearting

@GarethPye

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah exactly. That needed serious water flow, the water block heating up that quickly says it and/or the water flow were undersized.

@richardk2n

4 жыл бұрын

The sad thing is, that they don't understand peltiers apperently. The water was not able to get the heat away. Meaning the peltier cannot cool and will just act as a heater. Linus brilliant idea: Cranck up the heater you put on your cpu even higher.

@fraguzz

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!! Yah i would not rull out this before they can keep the hot side alot cooler.. as i recall the delta t will drop when getting hotter.. so a theoretical hot/cold temp of 70c is not at a burning hot side. It is not a good solution power wise! I did an 85w with water on a celeron 300@504 -17c idle 0c load.. Back in the day.

@anikdey2100

4 жыл бұрын

Peltiers never gonna work on something that is actively producing heat like a CPU ... The actual cooler is the radiator here ... If they directly use it with the CPU and water block it would do better job ...

@fraguzz

4 жыл бұрын

@@anikdey2100 explain to me why my old cpu was -19c at idle and 0c under load with peltier and water.. with a room temp of 22c

The "Oh my god!" moment of the overflow was the first genuine laugh I have had in days.. wasn't watching LTT for that experience, but thank you, I needed it!

Yeah, I like my NH-D9L. All of these TEC plate experiments and my experience using water cooling, it's hard to beat an efficient air cooler. I wasn't even a believer in the Noctua hype until I tried this one either.

im getting whole room flashbacks with those fans and radiator, the cable mess and evrything..

10:56 "It only needs to be straight enough" - Linus, 2019

@LordDragon1965

4 жыл бұрын

I'm fairly sure Yvonne will say that Linus *is* straight enough. But probably only just.

Beautiful design and test great video!!!

Even though it didn't work very well i think this is my favorite episode

You know it's going to be a good video when Alex puts on is engineer uniform...

@windyshrimp7369

4 жыл бұрын

+10 to intelligence.

@excitedbox5705

4 жыл бұрын

not a very good engineer obviously.

@zuminlair92cp

4 жыл бұрын

i think an air cooling will suit for this because TEC is "collect" heat extreme fast, air cooler just fit very well for this. Water cooling transfer heat isn't that fast compare to a huge metal fin heat sink.

Alex is a genius! This is exactly what LTT should be all about! MAKE IT WORK!

i actualy ran a dual CPU system with this setup around 1999-2000. i used two celeron 400 (socket 370) a BP6 motherboard and two 55 watt coolers running flat out 24/7. you needed to have "GOOD" cooling. i used two Alpha PAL6035 running full blast. as long as the room i was in this worked just dandy. the problem came when i arranged this LAN party and the climate control in the building was set to turn of at night. and it became 30c+ at the second level. then i did not get the air out from between the gfx card and the PSU stack (i had to run two) so cardbord and gafa was used to direct the fan flow inside the case and i was ones again able to hold my hand on the case lol. btw.. you will ned a LOT of insulation to prevent condensation. as well. i used foam cut and stacked around the socket and the lower part of the cooler. for you to make this work your biggest enemy is heat on the hot side. i think if you made the ribs in the water block 2-3 times higher AND square (have the ribs covering ALL of the cooler element) and used two in and two out tubes + dual pumps it might work.. remember you MUST be able to remove 2000 watt+ and hold it under 35c. you can only expect a temp difference of 35-45c at this level on the hot and cold side. might go doen in the 20's. so the hot side MUST be kept cool!

Truly hope this series keeps it up

Alex&Linus videos always feel like a what-if articles in a video format. And I absolutely love every second of it.

Tecs get less efficient as the power consumption goes up so cranking it up to 900w might not be as effective as keeping it at 200w. Also expect a 10c delta across the tec so for sub ambient multiple tecs should be used with a larger cooling system

@hank7281

4 жыл бұрын

"So we got this high power module." Module. As in modular.

@impuls60

4 жыл бұрын

I'm betting on a sweet spot on 2-300w into the TEC. Any more would demand way to much from the heat sink. I think the copper water block got overwhelmed, not enough water flow and speed.

@DaemonForce

4 жыл бұрын

I do the opposite of this. I use multiple TECs in a small cooling system but the system is half-assed and intended for chilling multiple things in a water loop, not forcing heat away from a TEC in the loop.

@zombieswitapple

4 жыл бұрын

@@hank7281 im not sure what point you're trying to say. No shit the tec is a module. What does that have to do with anything

@zombieswitapple

4 жыл бұрын

@@DaemonForce they overloaded the one radiator. He calculated 500w without including the cpu heat. And even then it was at 50c meaning the cold side would be at 40.

So, I tried to do something similar a few years ago. I was really not up for condensation, but still wanted to get things as cool as possible. You can grab an arduino and a humidity + ambient temperature sensor and calculate the condensation threshold on the fly. Then use the arduino to talk to the relay/peltier. I'm not sure what the word for it is, but my problem was "thermal momentum" (my name for it) where you would have things snowball so fast that it would pass the condensation point. I gave up when I had to pull out my old calculus books to start predicting where the snowball was going.

@benjaminshields9421

Жыл бұрын

3 years late, but that "momentum" would be controlled by a PID controller, which reacts to the difference between your current and target temps, how much difference has accumulated over time, and how quickly that difference is changing

@drink__more__water

Жыл бұрын

​@@benjaminshields9421 3 years is my average response time as well ;P Looking back I think I've improved enough to approach this project again with the same tools and get it to work right. Or, yeah, use the right tool for the job lol.

16:12 Oh yeah I remember that haha, that was quite a leak for me because I was smart and forgot to put the fitting on the top of a rad because "it'll never make it through there" It did

Luke was the king of janky projects

@sirgalahad4861

4 жыл бұрын

Was?

@BlazeABD

4 жыл бұрын

have you seen floatplane?

@meloenijs

4 жыл бұрын

@@BlazeABD no? What happend?

@mazwrld

4 жыл бұрын

Now Alex is the king

@lukewhite9237

4 жыл бұрын

What about the privacy monitor, Luke knifed a display

Linus: But hey it was a learning experience. Alex: Yeah. Linus: About listening to your boss next time. Alex: *WHAT?*

I run multiple peltier devices in series, thats also inline with a corsair 115i, to reduce my coolant temperature. As always, the peltier devices are not at all efficient, but its a nice little assist to the corsair 115i. Plus it was a lot of fun to build.

I just like that they connected PID to a relay.

Man, they should do some of this awesome invention videos with ElectroBOOM, it would be awesome.

@thefonz2854

4 жыл бұрын

Javier Macias good idea! The whole studio would be on FIRE!

@DrakyHRT

4 жыл бұрын

Shortage on 10K $$ so AWESOME!!!

@brunogm

4 жыл бұрын

They could continue this project with the awesome TechIngredients

@arkie87

4 жыл бұрын

best idea ever

Man, alex's stuff is getting super impressive. Kudos to you guys

I want another channel that is run by Alex where he just does design and engineering stuff in a lot of detail. It doesn't need to be this kind of camera or editing quality, I'd just like to see... DETAILS.

@zac.s

3 жыл бұрын

And actually give him the time to complete projects and not have to throw them together at the very end.

@eden1925

3 жыл бұрын

@@zac.s Knowing myself and my perfectionism, I don't think a lot would be finished finished. Everything would always be imperfect and not yet ready.

Linus I love your content it really relaxes me and rest appreciate it a lot

if you do water cooling aswell, then I would rather use the Peltier to cool the water and not the chip directly

@himynameisryan

4 жыл бұрын

That makes slot more sense

congrats Alex, you really stepped up your game in the last year. The flow simulation really blew my mind! Keep up this quality of content!

LOL I haven't programmed a PID in two decades now, but looks like they're still just as PITA as ever. Sad to see it didn't even help. BUT (dun dun dun!) maybe putting the Peltier cooler on the CPU itself was the bad idea. What if it was used as a secondary cooling phase (so placed after the rad) to cool the water going into a normal CPU water block? So CPU - AIC - Peltier - CPU? So two sets of radiators. An AIC for the CPU and a massive rad for a janky Peltier. Arguably (not really) pointless as you COULD just use the massive rad alone to cool the CPU in a normal watercooled setup ... but where's the fun in doing things the sane way?

@julkkis666

2 жыл бұрын

I 100% agree with this and have spent a lot of time looking to see what it would take to do this. I'd put the main rad on the top blowing, and the other on the front...

@minimanr5052

Жыл бұрын

I said the same, albeit not nearly as well stated. 2 phase cooling! Do it!

There's some more that goes into PID. Basically, instead of full on when the desired temperature is not reached and full off when the desired temperature is reached, it tries to predict when its about to reach the desired temperature and slow down so it won't overshoot or speed up so it doesn't undershoot. That way it pretty much stays exactly on point, there is no oscillation in the temperature.

Thought I'd see my *grandkids* before this video.

@Noksus

4 жыл бұрын

nah you'll be dead before they're born

@tannerboy1991

4 жыл бұрын

@@Noksus oof

@simloverify

4 жыл бұрын

I thought I'd get a girlfriend before this video came out

@dwayneattard5265

4 жыл бұрын

A Linus 😁

@ericwiedenhoft184

4 жыл бұрын

thought I'd see my dad...

Why not use the peltier as a "radiator", cooling the water, and not directly on the processor?

@TwskiTV

4 жыл бұрын

And what would you use to cool the hot side?

@BromoDragoonFly

4 жыл бұрын

@@TwskiTV Another peltier obviously

@marvinjuang5469

4 жыл бұрын

@@TwskiTV elsa.

@russiank9802

4 жыл бұрын

@@TwskiTV another water cooling radiator?

@jakekgfn

4 жыл бұрын

And then another water cooling loop to cool the loop that's coolong the peltier

Go one step further. Standard water block -> large radiator to bring temp to ambient -> tec cooling array to bring coolant subzero -> back to water block. Fyi, peltiers have three energy balance equations including internal resistive heating, conductive thermal transfer and seebeck thermal transfer. As your temp delta goes up the tec efficiency drops and the resistive heating takes over resulting in your tech becoming predominantly a heater on both sides. Amping up the voltage and current just drives more resistive heat load. Also as the temperature delta increases, a reverse voltage is generated which subsequently further drops the seebeck heat transfer performance. Fun times 🤠

A couple of tips: 1. you could have just measured the temperature at the edge of the cold plate, as that's the area where condensation would be a concern - you can solder the junction of a thermocouple directly to a metallic surface so long as your TC readout has an isolated input or the cold plate has no conductive path to ground. 2. As others have mentioned, an overpowerd TEC just becomes a resistive heater... you have to do testing to find that point and target a power somewhat below that. 3. If you're going through all the effort of designing custom blocks, you might as well add a dry gas purge around the cold plate to go as cold as you want without worrying about condensation 4. As others have mentioned, you'd be far better served by having "hot" and "cold" loops interfaced by the TEC than trying to dump the TEC directly onto the cpu.

I love the Alex experimental videos!! Keep it up guys

The amount of shortcuts taken in this video is unreal

Use the watercooling to cool the TEC hot-side (multiple TECs) and on the cold side use chiller blocks with an independent pump to circulate on its own loop to cool components.

Loved this episode, I tried this back in 2006, pretty much did exactly what was done here minus the temp regulator and my water loop started boiling, The pipe burst off the radiator and that was the end of that idea. I also first tried with a tiny peltier cooler which was useless but then ordered an industrial grade peltier and the outcome was the boiling water loop as I mentioned. It would be awesome if this kind of technology actually worked.

@cameronliddell9533

2 жыл бұрын

it does work just not in that application. car coolers use them

@joehoover7711

Жыл бұрын

cool the water not the cpu directly i use 2 12706 and keep 26c temps in texas

Yeah, thermoelectric coolers aren't really meant to cool a continuous heat load like that very well. I knew an engineer who specializes in thermoelectric coolers and the main scenario he used them for was when a piece of equipment needed to be kept at a very precise temperature, such as optics in a spy plane camera.

1. If you don't use the right ssr, it won't turn off when using dc 2. You want a T type tc to measure sub freezing temps 3. look at the ssr derating curve. they only can handle their max amps when they are cool

@the_unkilled2238

4 жыл бұрын

But it's not even a SOLID state relay, since your hear the click, which makes it a regular magnetic relay.

@theshiznojudge

4 жыл бұрын

@@the_unkilled2238 the clicking was probably coming from the temperature controller. the ink bird block is an ssr

@VEKTOR4477

4 жыл бұрын

@@the_unkilled2238 The "SSR-40 DA" is a real Solid State Relay, i think this click comes from the PID regulator. It may has a small signal output relay for isolation purposes. And yes the "A" in the name stands for AC so it realy can't switch off again when DC current goes through it. Still a good idea from LTT to use a SSR nevertheless.

@timramich

4 жыл бұрын

@cedric1997 A solid state relay is not a relay? Okay.

@jonander6811

4 жыл бұрын

@@VEKTOR4477 I think they are using the SSR to switch the entire second power supply off Using 12V on-off is a realy bad way of controling a tec

The PID controllers are pretty good things. Often used in labs and metalworking industry to control the temperature in muffle furnaces. Heat treatment for steel or otherwise simply maintaining a stable unchanging temperature within the chamber. BTW, that's why it doesn't read negative temperatures, it's intended for high temperatures, such as from the 600's to over 1k Celsius.

I think the solution is a hybrid system. You have a basic 240 mm rad with fans and a pump (open loop), then you have a secondary loop (open) that is dissipating heat from a peltier with whatever size rad it needs. You take the cold output from the basic loop and run it through a cpu block on the cold side of the peltier and THEN you run it to the cpu. That way, you can use basic, more efficient liquid cooling to siphon off most of the higher temperatures, then you slap a lower power TEC on the end of the loop to drop the temperature a bit more. The greater the temperature differential between a radiator and the air, the bigger of a drop you get. If your liquid is only 5 degrees above ambient, it's not going to lose much heat, but if your liquid is 50 degrees above ambient, it drops off faster.

"If I have to blast a TITAN RTX I'm gonna be so pissed off" I'm sure there is a cheap as crap PCIe graphics card somewhere in the warehouse they can use until they are satisfied it's booting correctly before testing further

@Juggernath

4 жыл бұрын

Would also had helped in the event of shit going sideways if he had pulled the pin for the extinguisher before pointing it.

@herohema5

4 жыл бұрын

But where is the fun in that?

It's fantastic to finally see Alex firing on all cylinders and be able to use his engineering skills. Even if the TEC didn't work, that waterblock is gorgeous.

I think people are using peltiers the wrong way. We are already good at getting water back to room temperature, we should keep our existing loops and focus on making the water that's going *into* the block cooler. if you make a reservoir that runs water over the cold side of a peltier there are a couple things that you gain: 1. The ability to only turn on the peltier when it's really necessary (Example, when reservoir temp is 5 degrees above ambient turn on turbo charge mode) 2. The ability to pick and choose a module that isn't quite as overpowered. You don't *need* the module to move the entire 300w of heat (or whatever). You could pick a 200 watt peltier that moves 50w of watts of heat and still get a massive performance increase. 3. failsafe. If the peltier dies or whatever, you have still have the vanilla loop.

Generally with a TEC set up you use it to chill the water in the loop. Then pop an air cooler on the TEC. I've done it, worked great for me.

@JimBob1937

4 жыл бұрын

PWM isn't ideal for peltier modules, it will harm their cooling efficiency. You'd almost have filter the PWM to get a varying DC signal instead.

17:45 "Don't touch that!" D:

@realcartoongirl

4 жыл бұрын

electroboom: explodes and catches fire

13:00 you could just flip the polarity

@abrickwalll

4 жыл бұрын

They have a preferred polarity, and you should get it right if you are going to nearly double the max power

@chrisakaschulbus4903

4 жыл бұрын

@@abrickwalll it's not about the power, it's about the energy from within

@alexlexo59

4 жыл бұрын

@@Leadvest OK now i will know

@Mxracer6y

4 жыл бұрын

@Ali Nassereddine i knew i wasnt the only one FUCK lol....... I kept trying to wipe it off and then i thought my monitor was scratched

@Mxracer6y

4 жыл бұрын

@alexi Todaze goddamn you i kept trying to wipe the hair off my screen.... and then when i couldnt i thought my monitor was fucked up and/or scratched..

Thank you so much for making this video, thought about doing something like this using peltier elements a few years back... i know now i dont have to try😂

god seeing yall go from a pair of vise grips to a starrett t handle will almost bring a tear to your eye.