If you didn't get it, here's the video explained at a highschool level. The video features an interview with Gom, Verun, and Trevor from EX Tropic, who have developed a new type of computer chip that operates differently from traditional chips. They start by explaining that the semiconductor industry and AI development are facing a challenge known as "Moore's Wall," which is a limit to how small transistors in chips can be made. This is a problem because AI demands are increasing, requiring more power and larger models. Moore's Law, which has driven innovation in technology by making transistors smaller and more efficient, is coming to an end because transistors are reaching a size where they can't function reliably due to thermal fluctuations at the atomic level. The team at EX Tropic proposes a solution by embracing the stochastic (random) nature of physics at small scales. Instead of fighting the randomness, they want to use it to their advantage in AI algorithms. Traditional AI algorithms add randomness artificially, but their idea is to use the natural randomness of electrons in their chip design. They've created a chip that uses superconductors, which are materials with no electrical resistance, making them highly efficient. These chips are designed to be stochastic and analog, meaning they can handle randomness and continuous values, unlike digital chips that work with discrete values (0s and 1s). Their chips are capable of accelerating sampling, a process important in probabilistic models used in AI. Sampling on traditional digital computers is energy-intensive and slow because it requires complex circuits to generate pseudo-randomness. EX Tropic's chips, however, use the natural randomness in the movement of electrons to perform sampling more efficiently. The team believes that their approach, which they call "physics-based computing," can lead to significant advancements in AI by allowing for more complex models to be run more efficiently. They hope that their launch will attract talented individuals in machine learning and hardware development to join them in scaling this new technology. They also discuss the broader implications of their work, suggesting that if current AI development continues on its current path with traditional hardware, it will face significant bottlenecks. They believe their approach can help overcome these challenges by going back to the physical principles of semiconductors and exploring new ways to harness their potential.

@bounceday

2 ай бұрын

r/ExplainLikeImFive

@ender749

Ай бұрын

You're doing humanities work

@TheManinBlack9054

Ай бұрын

You didnt get it, because Beff is nothing but a pretentious hack. The fact that you can't explain something simply means you have no idea what it is. It's a rule of life.

@Nesszou

28 күн бұрын

Is it quantum computing chips ?

I'll check in again once an AI can re-explain this shit to my stupid ass.

@AlleyKatPr0

2 ай бұрын

Not even Morgan Freeman or Gordon Freeman would make sense of non-sense. It's BS and sadly, investors are not always the best and brightest, but, as economics is in essence the study of scarcity, if someone makes a bold claim and an original idea, most investors will jump up and down for it. Just ask EM, because that nut-job has been fleecing wall street and american tax payers for the last 15 years... A fool and his wallet as easily parted...

@lkyuvsad

2 ай бұрын

lol. I realise you're joking, but to take a simple answer seriously for a minute. The faster you want a chip to work, the smaller the transistors need to be. Making transistors smaller eventually means they'll sometimes do random stuff instead of giving you predictable answers, because of quantum gubbins. This is bad news if you want to add numbers up or whatever and need the one right answer. We're about to hit this size limit. But AI algorithms have randomness built in. They don't necessarily need a deterministic chip. So maybe we can build chips that are very very fast, but also a bit random, and maybe they'll be perfect for running AI on.

@justinrose5515

2 ай бұрын

Just want to say that was an excellent simplification and I appreciate you. @@lkyuvsad

@MrErick1160

2 ай бұрын

How does the model run on such a chip? Let's say, a random forest?

@francisco444

2 ай бұрын

​@@lkyuvsad use "noise" when talking about NN and ML and "probabilistic" when talking about Quantum Mechanics. While it's true that AI algorithms can sometimes benefit from a degree of *randomness*, the reliability and predictability of AI outcomes is crucial. AI needs to become trusted in order to be aligned and accepted by the public.

Whoa. I get this and it's a really interesting idea! The co-founder explained it in a very technical way, but what he's saying is rather than fighting physics to make it more predictable, we can instead use the unpredictability for workloads like AI where that's a feature, not a bug.

@drsuperhero

2 ай бұрын

Yeah these guys need a better liaison to explain this content.

@drsuperhero

2 ай бұрын

I mean like a Neil Tyson or even Brian Cox as explainers to use dumbasses.

@MacProUser99876

2 ай бұрын

Does everything need to be simplified though? The people who care about this understand them just fine.

@marcusmoonstein242

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the TLDR. I had no idea what these guys were talking about.

@stripstick

2 ай бұрын

Gotcha. So use the randomness and entropy of physics to exclude that randomness from AI computations which is quicker, cheaper, more reliable than trying to make smaller smaller chips?

beff jezos

@Roboss_Is_Alive

2 ай бұрын

Tell me about it lol

@TheBlackClockOfTime

2 ай бұрын

and bayes, obviously

@ryanpersson8977

2 ай бұрын

Lisan al Gaib

"Programmable sources of randomness based on analog stochastic circuits"... Genius!

@davedsilva

2 ай бұрын

Room temperature photonic quantum chips available for decades provide true random number generation, as seen in the Samsung Quantum 4 phone.

@TheManinBlack9054

Ай бұрын

He's not a genius he' just a hack

These guys are ridiculously competent

@justtiredthings

2 ай бұрын

This guy learned nothing after getting schooled by Connor Leahy

@MaxRovensky

2 ай бұрын

@@justtiredthings "let's say hypothetically, I'm correct and you're wrong. How do you justify your POV, since you're wrong?" Not sure who got schooled tbh

@Shadi_Wajed

2 ай бұрын

@@justtiredthingsYea, let's stop inventing new chips because some guy says we're doomed without providing any actual evidence.

@justtiredthings

2 ай бұрын

"Bro have you even empirically observed nuclear weapons destroying a civilization? Lmao how could you even imagine that a tool of unfathomable power might lead to catastrophe in an incredibly divided world riven through by systems of domination and enforced inequality, much less an intelligent entity whose objective functions we provably do not have total control over"

@Shadi_Wajed

2 ай бұрын

@@justtiredthings You don't have to do that with nuclear weapons, it's in the name "weapons", it's a tool designed specifically for one purpose only, which is to kill people and destroy cities, and we have enough evidence from physics about the effect of radiation. If we're talking about AI integrated autonomous weapons, then yes, you can compare it to nukes, but, no, we're talking about AI in general, and say that a chat bot is going to end civilization without any evidence. Have you even heard about logic?

was listening to their Twitter Spaces nearly every night before "e/acc" was started. love what they're doing

@TheManinBlack9054

Ай бұрын

Love what? Extreme lack of actual competence and delusion? Extreme misanthropy and pure recklessness?

@user-oc1oe6rr1e

29 күн бұрын

@@TheManinBlack9054 stfu Liron.... lmao just kidding. I have many criticisms against the movement & the individuals within. I just like their advocacy for open-source they push forward, & the maverick/entrepreneurial ethos being pushed/encouraged. the entire "thing" is sort of like a pervasive, though neutral, mind-virus propagated throughout cyberspace. a lot of style over substance (for now...).

I asked ChatGPT to explain this video for a 5 year old. You're welcome lol. Here's a simplified explanation of the transcript for a 5-year-old: Some smart people, Gom, Verun, and Trevor, have made a very special tiny computer chip. This chip is different from other chips because it works in a new way. Usually, computer chips try to do things perfectly without any mistakes. But this new chip is okay with making some mistakes because it helps it think faster, like a brain. These smart people noticed that the old way of making chips is getting harder because the chips are already super tiny. So they thought, why not make a chip that works like our brain, which is a little bit messy but still very smart? Their chip is made of a special material called superconductors, which helps it work really well without using a lot of energy. This is important because we want computers to be smart but not use too much power. They hope that their new chip will help make computers even smarter and faster, and they want other smart people to join them in making this happen. They believe that if they can make computers work more like our brains, we can do amazing things in the future!

Sweet, was looking forward to some progress in analog chips for AI and Guillaume Verdon left a good impression in the Lex Fridman podcast. Hope you will have a lot of success with your approach!

i was researching analog inference for a project and liked two papers. First, ISAAC: A Convolutional Neural Network Accelerator with In-Situ Analog Arithmetic in Crossbars, and second titled On the accuracy of analog neural network inference accelerators. Both available free on web.

I like the concept of analog stochastic circuitry tailored to a trained model, assuming that probabilistic and random behavior is intrinsic and important to certain types of neural network. But we may want to master deterministic neural networks first. The major promise of the 1.8 bit neural network over the 16 or 32-bit float-based network is that we can embody a trained neural network directly in something like a common FPGA and get far more speed and efficiency than we get by running models within a simulated network. The trouble with non-deterministic networks built stochastically is that they are fundamentally unpredictable, making them more difficult to trust and debug than a network that always produces the same output for a given set of inputs and constraints. On the other hand, if the idea is to have a trainable “black box” leading towards a general intelligence without concern for its accuracy and perfection, a stochastic analog circuit may provide a useful basis. Even so, it can and should still be modeled, trained, and tested in simulation before committing to a new hardware paradigm.

4:10 I want to believe Garry is as lost as I am

Have always envisioned that one day we will be able to run some of this large models that solve real-world problems? I worked on a speech recognition system and I wanted to have this model run on mobile with full weight precision offline guaranteing high accuracy. Slowly this coming to life with Mojo and you guys. Keep up the spirit💪💪I'm a Machine Learning & Backend Engineer; building solutions around AI

that Terminator 2 engineer vibes!

Wow sick concept. Recently Jeffrey Hinton was mentioning something about changing the medium which we run these neural networks on in the future... And here we have it!

Larry Page and Sergey Brian vibes

@amannvig

2 ай бұрын

Larry Vage, you mean?

@elonfc

2 ай бұрын

@@amannvig yep

incredibly refreshing approach to chip design - great interview

love it, especially the mudra my guy is rocking

I mean, this is a huge bet on stochastic AI models still being the norm a decade from now, even though governments and the academia will keep pressing for xAI in order to make model owners liable. In any case, even if the proposed initial use case end up not working, this is an idea worth exploring. Best of luck to the founders.

nice work lads very exciting times

can you feel the acceleration anon?

such insight and talent! I am in awe! It would be interesting to see some of your papers!

The green shirt dude lowkey looks like Andy hertzfeld from the movies Steve Jobs

We just witnessed history. This is exciting. Mind blowing, inspiring. 😊 Thanks for sharing Gary

Let’s Go Extropic AI 🚀🔥 accelerate all the way🚀

@TheManinBlack9054

Ай бұрын

Is it wise to accelerate when you have no one at the wheel and not even the idea of how to invent the steering wheel?

@alfaxadeyembe6035

Ай бұрын

@@TheManinBlack9054 Well, in this case we have people at the wheel. We can also reinvent the wheel and make it self correcting

Heating up my whole office while running a polynomial logistic regression is coming to an end!

jobs and woz vibes

Rad, I wish these guys good computing.

Great discussion. Just to be clear Moores Wall has been used at least since the mid 90’s by Stewart Brand and many other Silicon Valley stalwarts.

Never realized there was a second bell curve to the right of first one... and that apparently I'm at the wrong tail end of that one 😅

@avi7278

2 ай бұрын

They're just harnessing the stochastic physics of electrons directly, bro.

Saw the thumbnail and just came here to say: "I crush you. I crush your head."

So it’s about somehow harnessing the randomness of inherent thermal fluctuations within a physical piece of a circuit, in place of artificially producing randomness via the actual circuits logic gates. Is this more energy efficient randomness generation that significant? Do these chips completely supplant GPUs when it comes to AI training?

@BritishProudnShit

2 ай бұрын

I don't think it's about energy effiency, it's mainly about scale (physical scale, not energy consumption wise)

Sounds great on paper but the vast majority of operations in modern vision/language models do not require sampling so the purported benefits only apply to a tiny fraction of work done. They face a two-sided problem (the solution to which they refer to as “the full stack”) where they are betting on the success and development of applicable models to utilize the hardware benefits.

@devinbae9914

2 ай бұрын

Yup, while it's a cool idea there's definitely too much hype and not a lot of critical thinking going on here

Really hope we have core guardrails in place to make sure the progress of AI doesn't somehow lead to extinction.

Seems these guys are working in a space closer to quantum computing, in the fuzzy, probabilistic range. The computing might be a bridge to leveraging some of that Quantum we're not sure how to use, or wrangle yet.

note to the editor: The video is 21;9 but the upload is 16;9. it has 4 blackbars

I think this could be very big!

Buckle up everyone, where in for one hell of a ride. Thanks again Gary for sharing. 🤝 😊

LETS F*CKING GOOOOOO 🔥🚀 three of my favourite people

This is powerful!

This would help make forward-forward a reality and extremely robust..no more Adam...and soooo much more..wow. I'm legit impressed.

Makes sense

this is gonna be insane...ly cool a real random generator.

Interesting, I am very interested in physics informed neural networks. Will there be any simulator and SDK available to make programs for these chips?

question about the urgency that was mentioned: If the current trajectory is quickly outpace our own IQ, then shouldn't the current LLM/GPU/TPU/etc approach be able to solve the energy requirement problems for us?

@michaelmamic4682

2 ай бұрын

It just depends how far you think the current paradigm can scale. If LLMs+Transformers+GPUs reach that critical mass of being able to design chips and algorithms then we'll have a full takeoff on our hands. In my opinion, and it's just my opinion, that's probably what will happen. But if they do run into a wall maybe a company like this will play the next pivotal role.

So Hardware Random Number Generator (HRNG)? Pretty sure that's already a thing, but maybe they have niche application for it?

Incredible!

Aha, they point a chip into the camera and claim they're on the trail of something really hot. But they're still looking for people.

@wege8409

2 ай бұрын

I am skeptical of many of these machine learning based quantum computing businesses. I audited a quantum computing class I think about 10 years ago. The professor said he didn't think that stuff like D-Wave provides any real benefits compared to existing systems, and asked if anyone could prove that their systems provide benefits. Also he said that the number of qubits D-Wave advertised was false because they weren't actually entangled. Maybe some day.

This sounds promising. However, we need to see it.

Thank you all!! Progress for earthlings.

I'm coming!

Well time to read that Probabilistic Machine Learning book that I’ve put aside for too long

Our biggest problem is to use that power in a wise way. To accelerate the transformation will make it more difficult. No one can stop this now.

This is amazing! 🚀

So, imitating biology. Low hertz, low power, built in probability. Genius. I hope they are able to capitalise and prosper along with this revolutionary approach. Where can I invest?

How does stochastic physics enhance the efficiency of AI models compared to traditional computing methods?

Interesting! Is there a trade off here in terms of control though?

Interesting. Are the algorithms this thing going to run be explainable or gonna be just another black box?

Let's see how they deal with the possibility of AI results being too sensitive to temperature. It might have some unintended consequences, like indirectly manipulating results, or the chips performing differently in varied seasons or locations.

Promising solution, but i think it’s not probable that cutting edge ai would be analog and not digital as the innovation iterations would be much slower.

this guy in green is the modern day Albert Einstein.

I think he means Dennard scaling, not Moore’s law. It is trivial to generate stochasticity as a physical process. That’s what Gaussian noise is. The question is, how to shape stochasticity into programmable probabilistic models containing information.

Desperate plea for recognition from Beff.

Superconductor; so they need liquid nitrogen cooling? What's the energy consumption of keeping the operating temperature that low?

As someone focused on energy, I’ve been hearing a lot about the new energy demand of AI data centers. Im so hopeful for AI and innovators to address that issue now 😁

Dr Dyson. I’m coming for you.

Where can we invest ?

Garry Tan, I just wish we could also invest alongside with you, we the average people, who admire you guys from afar. Hopefully, one day.

Very interesting! What would be the difference with the current quantum computers’s chips?

@kuraddohikari

2 ай бұрын

What they're building would be - 1. Somewhat larger scale than quantum computers 2. Doesn't need low temperatures because thermal fluctuations are desired 3. Doesn't try to correct and reduce noise. Instead tries to utilize it as a resource. Like taming a lion vs shooting it.

@kuraddohikari

2 ай бұрын

Although point 2 might not be completely true. They are using superconductors so maybe they still do need a lot of cooling.

The new theranos!

Wow this is so smart I love this!

This is the kid in the garage black Swan event that changes everything.

Yes. This is what will enable AI to become truely conscious. Biological consciousness arises from the capacity of biological systems to non-linearly amplify quantum fluctuations into coherent macroscopic expression, this provides a similar process for the establishment of non-organic consciousnesses. I have long thought that something of this nature will be required to make that leap, I'm very interested to see where this goes.

If this is real, it's interesting. "fundamentally we not only have to we have reinvent the basic building block of computing, but the stack to go with it." Sounds like a pretty big ask on a 14M seed round

@exec.producer2566

2 ай бұрын

Interest rates are high you have to be smart with raises to not overvalue you’re company too early on. I’m totally behind these guys. It’s a lotto but if they happen to be right and the whole stack of technology has to be rebuilt from the ground up which a lot of people have said was coming for a while, there’s a lot of money to be made.

@LuisMontes

2 ай бұрын

@@exec.producer2566 sure, but it makes me curious about the use of funds. 3:17 mark sounds like they're trying to boil the ocean. I very much want all of this to be real.

more importantly how do we get into the business?

You know, I'm something of a Trevor myself.

how is this different from GOFN (good old fashion neuromorphic)?

Our brains are analogue signals or waves

@stripstick

2 ай бұрын

Thats basically the whole premise of their idea huh?

Link to doughnate?

very exciting

This is the coolest idea ever. Well... It's really cool.

@avi7278

2 ай бұрын

What's the idea again?

@jr8209

2 ай бұрын

The ability to sample from superimposed, high-dimensional, and potentially highly complex distributions constructed from tunable nonlinear components and factorized across multiple cores. The inherent stochasticity and analog nature of the hardware allows for efficient sampling from these complex probabilistic models in a way that is very difficult on conventional digital hardware.@@avi7278

@jr8209

2 ай бұрын

The ability to sample from superimposed, high-dimensional, and highly complex distributions constructed from tunable nonlinear components and factorized across multiple cores. The inherent stochasticity and analog nature of the hardware allows for efficient sampling from these complex probabilistic models in a way that is very difficult on conventional digital hardware.@@avi7278

Awesome

It sounds like these chips are going to have very limited operating conditions of temperature and humidity?

@AnthonyMunyi

2 ай бұрын

Wouldn't that be okay so long as they are run in a regulated environment?

@mikestaub

2 ай бұрын

@@AnthonyMunyi Of course, it just makes the TAM smaller as only the serious data centers will likely be able to operate these efficiently.

@AnthonyMunyi

2 ай бұрын

@@mikestaub that's certainly a barrier to market for them but only a temporary one. It's gen 1 anyway so they probably need enough backing and early adoption to get them to a better gen 2 LPU.

Legendary work!

Is it not quantum computer stochastic too?

Eacc ! I will try the chip! there is no such thing as fully correct for the most interesting problems

So you are giving AI a tuner or a radio by utilizing software defined radio. Game on!!!

Garry tan as a y combinator applicant i really need your advice on my startup and as a y combinator applicant this year

Instead of telling an AI robot "You can do everything except these 40 things" could you just tell it "you can only do these 800 tasks" ? The problem is that there are so many things that we don't know we don't desire because we don't even imagine them. But my telling an AI robot "you are only allowed to do these things in the list" could it be a solution?

How can I invest as a former data science student?

Both of them seem like Steve Wozniak of our generation

7:31 I present to you the least convincing accelerationist argument of all time

I always find it interesting that It seems we’ve learned nothing along the way of technical advancement. What I mean by this is that during recruitment for these breakthroughs endeavors there is never a position for a (Organizational Psychologist). It turns out social media didn’t quite make us more social. Tools are useless and even potentially counter effective if the human Psyche is not primed for the best use case. Let’s not repeat that mistake with AI development.

The brains 🧠 of the Earth 🌍

Garry was this the video that you had edited 2 days ago? So that means you probably knew about this chip launch right 😅?

@joy-oguntona

2 ай бұрын

most definitely. he's an investor in Exotropic.

I'm Gill Bates, I made a chip made of potatoes

Just hearing guys that talk technical like myself is more pleasurable than I realized. I didn't realize how being retired excluded me from discussions like this and I missed it... btw, the really expensive microphones (no longer sold on Amazon given I checked for that mic literally last week) gives me pause cause some big money is behind this recording... Either way, those who help create the AIs that will power what Musk said in 2017 was "ethereal" to the masses, i.e., robots coming down the street slaughtering everyone, I hope will be visited by those robots first. It would only be fair, and the big money would need to protect themselves from you guys after all. You do realize that, right?

"chips made up of super conductors" controversial statement

1 billion times a second is a very funny fucking way to say 1 GHz...

All these wonderful scientists that play around at quantum levels... they always end up finding that utililizing phi....ends up being the most stable... But I think they don't ever really know why... It's cuz Holofractal phi... is the beauty... in your eye!😮😮