Just saw a Christian friend praising God for answering the church’s prayers for rain, they had been praying for rain for weeks with no result but as soon as rain is forecasted God answered their prayers. You have to count the misses

@everydaychristianapologeti2614

Жыл бұрын

Your comment makes no sense.

@denverbilyeu2172

Жыл бұрын

@@everydaychristianapologeti2614 it is a reference to how people cherry pick data to show correlations between a variable and an outcome. In order to say God answered the prayers for rain you have to count the times you prayed and it rained and compare that to all the times you prayed and it didn’t rain. When this is done God is either with holding rain on purpose or it rains in nature whether humans pray or not. Any time the two line up is simple random chance.

@everydaychristianapologeti2614

Жыл бұрын

@@denverbilyeu2172 I know the concept. That’s not why I said that

@MrMattSax

Жыл бұрын

@@everydaychristianapologeti2614 then perhaps you should clarify. The point is that prayer seems to work with the same rate of success as random chance. Do you disagree?

@shaydesofblue2281

8 ай бұрын

Lol

And they will say the nastiest thing like "have fun burning in hell, can't say you don't deserve it." And then they will end their comment with "Praying for you sweetheart. 🙏💖⛪" Like WTF.

@MagerialPage

3 жыл бұрын

@Michelle Repelo Muggletom

@MagerialPage

3 жыл бұрын

@Michelle tldr

@TheGretsch6120

3 жыл бұрын

When I was in church I used to call them on that attitude of why they seem to get so much joy out of someone going to hell if they believe what they claim to believe. Some changed, some carried on.

@heatherm5148

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheGretsch6120 how nasty to take pleasure in such a wicked thought. I'm glad you chose to challenge them

@cerealrakist7360

3 жыл бұрын

@MagerialPage yes! That’s why I turned away! Hypocritical, full of hatred , judgemental jerks, is all I ever see from those who follow Jesus and to me I just could not see any evidence of love from Christ. I knew it was all bullshit from an early age. Then the contradictions in the Bible are another reason PLUS why would God let so many innocent children be born so sick, why so many experience horrific lives and never have a chance . Why so many starving ? Etc etc etc

I'm finding that too many people are too afraid to say, "I don't know" these days and often get uncomfortable and jumpy when anyone else says it to them as an answer.

@bluwater1422

2 жыл бұрын

I agree 100% due 2 the simple fact that its best 2 b honest with 1 self & say i dont know instead of tryna b a know it all

@wildmohn2457

Жыл бұрын

WORD @thegretsch

@MrMattSax

Жыл бұрын

Many people just want an answer. They don’t often care if it’s a good answer.

Hello I’ve used to listens your videos without post a comment This video is reasonning in me. I was a muslim and I was confronted to the same illogical arguments from muslims (some people in my family). It’s difficult to talk about their biliefs in front of them because we’re attacking their way to live for years. A lot reacts emotionnaly and they view us as bad people, even if we are kind. Thank you for all your videos it is really helpful (Srry for my bad english i’m not an english speaker)

@roughlyspeaking7652

3 жыл бұрын

Your english is actually very good. You're a brave person! It's not easy to be different from your family, and to see the religion from the outside. I went through that too.

@itsAreeb

3 жыл бұрын

Can you share some of your questions? I am a Muslim I can try to answer

@rolfjohansen5376

3 жыл бұрын

@Blood Orchird I have noticed a pattern, those who read the Quran and also the Bible noties all illogical arguments themselves and start doubting. The rest are not reading that much mostly listening to their preacher and what he sherry picks from the book, hes arguments always make sense of course, hes mission is not to make you think for yourself but to submit.

@jangoss339

3 жыл бұрын

I could tell that English is your second language. But don't worry too much about it. Your English is very good. It was easy to understand what you wrote.

@salsapassion4life

3 жыл бұрын

@@rolfjohansen5376 lol quran works with hadith( sunnah ) and even with tafsir. If you doing that with onky quran you are doing it wrong

I spent over ten years in the Pentecostal church. Spoke in tongues and everything. I was convinced it was god speaking through me. Many years later after I’d left the church I went to a sound bath and meditation 🧘🏾‍♀️ session at a yoga studio. Deep in the meditation I began to experience the same sensations I experienced in church and I spoke in tongues. It was then I realised it wasn’t an in dwelling of the Holy Spirit but probably more of a biochemical reaction to the extreme emotions that came up from both of those experiences. I could be wrong but I seriously doubt those tongues I was speaking were the tongues of angels. Great video. Keep them coming.

@deneb3525

2 жыл бұрын

I find this facinating. Grew up in a fundimentalist "we arn't a denomination honest". So never really interacted with the tongues stuff.

@deneb3525

2 жыл бұрын

@Red Apple ok, how can you tell the difference?

@JDrocks4ever

6 ай бұрын

@yestofuture.byethost5.c0m80I have a question about that. So God gave them tongues at that time to talk to people of other languages. There are missionaries today that go to people that don’t speak their language. Why then don’t they speak in tongues instead of trying to learn their language and studying their language with the goal of translating bibles in their language? It seems like they could just skip the step of learning another language and just speak in tongues.

@nflnick1458

4 ай бұрын

All religions are similar. You can see it like a drug which is kind of having least harm to yourself or others around you. Religion is a glue by which the clans was supposed to stay together. It creates an identity just like how patriotism does.

@BobbyHo2022

Ай бұрын

Did you record yourself? If u were really speaking in a foreign language we can use the internet to translate. But everytime that's been tested it reveals u are just speaking nonsense. 😂

I too was programmed to believe in Christianity... and have walked away... your logic makes complete sense. Thanks for sharing!

@notstayinsdowns

3 жыл бұрын

When did you just read the Bible through without anyone's commentary on it?

@notstayinsdowns

3 жыл бұрын

@James Lucas , Yeah, typical of those that deny God.

@allaboutdeen5023

3 жыл бұрын

Try islam bro , I guarantee it will all make sense once you dive deep into it. It's upto you but I definitely recommend it 👍

@allaboutdeen5023

3 жыл бұрын

@James Lucas You will never know once you try

@allaboutdeen5023

3 жыл бұрын

@James Lucas I have studied it and found that there are many flaws in it

The hardest thing for me has been how my family has really abandoned me because of my loss of religion. They just look at me as irredeemable and a "lost cause". The last time I talked to my mother she screamed at me "I THINK YOURE GOING TO HELL!!!" with tears in her eyes... The worst part is, I really WANTED to believe, but I found it to be impossible. I've always just been honest about what's actually going on in my mind, and the Christian community has always punished me for it. I struggle with letting go of a lot of hatred of Christianity and Christians.... I'm getting a lot better and it's my Christian friends who allow me to forgive my family and move on.

@jidoorifalcon

Жыл бұрын

I'm so sorry to hear about your experiences. The toxicity in the Christian community can be terrible. I grew up in a Christian community and my family has dealt with a lot of toxic church people, but the only thing that is keeping me Christian is my personal relationship with Jesus.

Thank you for this monologue. I just discovered your channel recently. I gave up Christianity myself at the age of 61. That was difficult. Many of your points resonate with me, and were part of why I lost my faith. My question to you is, why do you think the need for religious belief is so pervasive throughout all of known history? My theory is that mankind created religion to help him deal with unknowns.

@thomassears1432

3 жыл бұрын

@@sojourneroftheland I think that premise would fall under the category of a non falsifiable belief.

@thomassears1432

3 жыл бұрын

Oh. I forgot to say that I did watch to the end.

@tracik1277

3 жыл бұрын

Your last sentence I would go on to say that after that man used it to control other men, and voila!

@alwayslearningtech

3 жыл бұрын

@@thomassears1432 there's a tonne of information you can find about why we tend to believe, and it's not just humans either... Elephants worship the moon and have rituals surrounding it, dolphins and other animals have these experiences as well. If you look into it from an evolutionary view, we tend to give agency to things that don't have agency which helps us to survive. 2 people hear the bush rustling, 1 thinks it's the wind and 1 thinks it's a lion. If it's a lion, the 1 who thought it was the wind dies, is it's the wind, they both survive. Being skeptical doesn't always pay off. Essentially evolution rewards believing in things that don't exist because sometimes they do.

@thomassears1432

3 жыл бұрын

@@alwayslearningtech interesting 👍🏻

I always found it hilarious when I tell someone I dont believe the bible is the word of God and they respond by quoting me the bible 😂😂

You make complete sense Clay! I started my self-thinking process probably 45 years ago and now I am 61 years old. Before the Internet, you really couldn’t talk to people about this. I’m glad you’re doing it and I commend you! I used to ask my dad about all these things that didn’t make sense in the Bible and he would always reference the Bible itself and tell me that it was the infallible word of God. One day he got upset and asked me if I had read the Bible from the cover to cover. I said no. He said then do it before you have any authority to question it. I read it from cover to cover and a left me with more questions than answers! So right now, it’s just tough to really express all this stuff with my wife and my daughter because I don’t want to destroy their image of me or of God. With the pandemic, we have not really attended church more than twice in almost 2 years. I’ve been a musician in church for 45 straight years and I always second-guess the whole thing in my mind but kept moving forward because I was born into being a Pentecostal Protestant. During these two years though, I discovered that I’m just as happy if not happier not attending church and meeting beautiful people who are not religious that are more helpful to me than my so-called brothers and sisters in the Lord. I’m so tired of all the clichés and crediting God for everything even if it’s by chance that things happen.I’m definitely at a cross roads but not sure what’s next. I tried to start talking to my wife but I could sense she was shutting down and so I immediately stopped and told her I respected her adverseness to hear me out. Please advise.

@Truthseeker0926

Жыл бұрын

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤Ditto, from another Pent😂😢😢😢

@user-mt6dw7vu4q

3 ай бұрын

My advice is to keep quite about where you’re at in your spiritual beliefs unless your wife ask you or begins a conversation about spiritual matters, then and only then be true to yourself and proclaim your beliefs with also saying spiritual beliefs are personal and we’re all individuals even though you’re married.

I'm way older than you(67) but our logic is the same. It is so comforting to know that there are others who think and reason like I do. It took me years to let go of the fear. I was afraid of both burning in hell and being completely ostracized by Christian family and friends.

@Baa975

Жыл бұрын

I still have those fears 😢

@jasomega2446

Жыл бұрын

Foxfire Labradors, how did you get rid of your fears?

Conversations can and do change minds. Keep going!

Applauding your delivery. Your open-minded discussions. Your ability to recognize toxic people and frame their attacks so it’s not hurtful to you and remain insightful. Since I last wrote you my story, I have been journaling and embracing gratefulness for the tiniest bit to rewire my brain from my toxic Christian family with abusive benefits. It was 5 months ago. What also resonated with me from your last talk was that you were open to someone providing (paraphrasing) substantial reasoning to the existence of God. I failed to mention that same desire at that time because I was drowning in my pain; that if some wise person could unravel the mythology and provide something concrete to the existence of God and to explain why this FatherGod, if existed, would allow his people to suffer atrocities by the hands of all walks of life. I would reevaluate my decision to dismiss this God and it’s toxicity. I so appreciated you reading my story. Thank you. You have a gift of soulful insight, maturity and kindness. Even the sound of your voice is comforting. Thank you for providing us with your journey. When you stated that many Christians were attacking in their comment, again paraphrasing. As you know historically Christians in the guise of nuns and priests, and missionaries and crusaders killed in the name of Jesus and God. Killed and kidnapped indigenous children all over the world. Killed gays and women that knew how to heal through herbs and were considered witches. Christianity has a brutal history. Outside my family -churches I attended as a single parent to follow the instructions to bring up your children in the Christian church were judgmental and unwelcoming. It was not just one Protestant church there were many. It was ok for my husband to be abusive, it was not ok for be to leave the abuser. A Baptist minister took my husbands side regardless of my account of abuse including my ex hitting my abdomen when I was 8 months pregnant and giving me two black eyes. Crazy people Crazy God. Take care be safe. Much appreciation!

@Fiawordweaver

2 жыл бұрын

I always have rebooting info that I say or write swirling in my thoughts. When I wrote about my toxic Christian family, I realized that their behavior was not influenced by them identifying as Christians. I speculate that my father chose church because he was a preachers son and it was automatic pilot to continue. Sundays dinners were awful because my father were rant after every service. One topic that came up frequently was directed at some of men that didn’t fight overseas in wwwll yet they received higher titles than him. Their names were assholes. The home was not a calm safe place for peace and gratitude. My mother, raised catholic converted to my fathers choice. Called the Catholic Church a cult. She also didn’t have those strong ties to religion, the church was simply social to her. I search for truth in my life because their was duplicity and fear tactics used as their parenting methods. Besides abuse. I saw sincerely loving parents who were also sincere about their christian beliefs and always wished they were my parents. I also so non christian loving parents that I also wished were my parents. My truth is there are toxic people who should never be parents or should never have female children. My four brothers that were my fathers biological sons, adored him as they grew into adults. I’m moving away from feeling cheated being born a female. If I was one of his sons, I don’t know if I would have my qualities that I embrace now. I still would have loved to have punched my dad in the face when he would bully me and accuse me for a couple of hours each week. I fantasize that I stood up to him. I fantasize that I stood up to my mother, who was also cruel and cut ties when I left home at 18 to live with my older 5th brother, who was not my fathers biological son. Truthfully I wish the cruelest cancer surviving brother died from a more dangerous cancer than my kind brother who died of a cancer with 85% success rate. But I can’t rewrite my life. I can strive to be grateful and kind to others even if it’s just a smile. I can work on boundaries and refuse toxic people in my life. I can not live a lie and say God bless you all, because I don’t believe in the Christian God. I can say I wish you all well. I don’t want what I write or say to attack someone else’s belief. That is never my intent. If it sounds that way, I don’t mean it to sound that way. I share my story and believe everyone should be able to choose what brings them peace. I do wish prayer was authentic and there was a God who heard these prayers of healing, guidance, and even spoke back. I also wish there was something out there that was bigger than me that truly loved mankind and performed healings. Removed this pandemic, stopped wars and changed cruel people into kind people. Changed haters into compassionate people. Kept children safe. Thank you.

Oh gosh, where to begin and where to end. As an INFJ, I have built a library full, with volumes and volumes of thought catalogs in these subjects. I have had experiences and insights, developed theories, tested them, come back with more questions; better questions. Contemplating and ruminating on and on with these big questions. I went on this search 25 years ago and never returned, lol. As an INFJ, I think we are prone to be truth seekers in a way, and explorer's of some very deep rabbit holes. I find a lot, if not most people never get that deep. Never really question to the extent I do, or have to arrive at a logical conclusion in order to accept a belief as true. In the end I just don't have the time or patience to engage with those people any longer. It is a waste of my time and energy. What I do now, sometimes, particularly if it is someone that I care about, who I think is being hurt or hurting others by their own beliefs in some way, is I try to plant small seeds or mental "time bombs " that may grow within someone at a later date when they are ready to explore that subject further, or when a personal experience may bring a certain issue to the forefront, to be dealt with. My hope is that thier ability to question or explore these ideas for themselves can be nurtured slowly. I have found some success with this method.

@presentlybikepacking2535

3 жыл бұрын

I “believe” the best child and the worst child to have is an INFJ. We will question everything.

@brianbertrand8322

3 жыл бұрын

Good comment Curiosity: In 100 or 200 years, assuming you are over as an earthly human before then, why would it matter if you wasted a few hundred hours of your time?

@lauramc4fun

3 жыл бұрын

In trying to be rational and accept people as they are, I've decided it's typically fruitless to engage in such debate. However, as a person of faith, I would argue that the idea that logic dictates the non existence of God is fallacious. All logic tells us is that we don't know the answer, which is of course already known. All we know is that we don't know. I choose to believe that I cannot with my human understanding alone prove or disprove God's existence and I see no harm in living my own truth and letting others live theirs.

@cheeriodineerio5773

3 жыл бұрын

Ive got great news! Our creator has a gift for us. The power to overcome death! The one and only begotten of the father his Son Jesus the Christ has conquered death for us! And freely offers us that power! That way through truth and light to spend eternity with him and the Father of all Creation and love. So, all we have to do is just quit wandering around aimlessly and just follow in Jesus's footsteps exactly the way he laid out for us and then we win. Then we will be given the power over death and we will be reconciled back with our Creator, back with our heavenly Father, back into the family of God for eternity. Thats the best news ever uh??

Infj that left christianity here as well. I have found that I'm a much better christian than most christians - without being christian. Think on it, really, really vibe on it.

@fireflythinking1290

3 жыл бұрын

That's exactly what I've been telling myself recently ahah !! Like my parents say they are Christians but I wonder if they even really listen to what is said in church, because they behave in so childish and selfish ways... And some of my friends who say they are Christians, practice their religion not from some sort of pure faith, but from basic convenience ahah. Like one friend even said "well, in case hell and paradise exist, I'd better be a Christian than an atheist". I feel more respectful and understanding about the idea of God than any Christian I know.

@whatever2685

3 жыл бұрын

@@fireflythinking1290 Thiss! I have the same experience with my parents as well. I feel like christianity is more of a title for a lot of people, instead of it being a lifestyle.

@victorabayomi3584

3 жыл бұрын

Anytime my Christian friends ask me why I don't come to church, I will laugh and say what's the difference between me and you going to the church. They will say am just a moralist 😂. Then apart from being upright and conscious of other human beings right, what else does God wants.

@fireflythinking1290

3 жыл бұрын

@@whatever2685 I don't know if you guys are INFJs too but I'm glad to find some people who agree with me on this madness ahahah

@beestingerz9738

3 жыл бұрын

@@fireflythinking1290 To go off on a tangent a little bit, I've had some really bad experiences with 'Christians' in church. Some people claim to be Christian, but are not. Also, too many 'wolves' have crept into the Church, as Paul of Tarsus warned. I don't call them wolves, but rather narcissists. Political and social structures are attractive to these types of people, because it enables them to have power and authority over others, as well as feeding their false sense of superiority. Better to get rid of these structures altogether in my view. Look at the 'underground' churches in China and Iran, they are much more dynamic and welcoming it seems than any formal church anywhere, and they have little or no structure (because they have to). And because of persecution in these and other places, you tend to get only genuine people attending. From my own experience, I'd ask you 'not to throw the baby out with the bath water', but rather separate the message from some of the messengers. I hope I haven't offended you.

RE: Prayer -- "If any two or more of you agree on anything, it shall be done by my father in heaven." I've been in a room of several hundred Christians all praying for a miracle of healing. Did it happen? Nope. One of the reasons I often refer to the bible as "the book of lies" How many families have had someone get sick or injured and all gathered together in a room and prayed for someone. And nothing happened. Or what happened was the opposite of what they were praying for. "Well that was god's will..." Well, if that was god's will, why were you trying to change it in the first place? Learning that prayer does NOT work was part of the deconstruction of my faith.

I watched till the end and my mind is blown. Thank you for articulating what I've been feeling for a long time

As an INFJ, I too have walked this path. I love having the discussions, but I sometimes think that those who believe unquestioningly, do not have the cognitive skills to understand that this is what they are doing (Dunning Krueger). These people resent being called not smart because it feels like a value judgement. Maybe it’s a personality type thing? I try not to waste my time discussing religion with “true believers” because of this. I would much rather live and let live, sometimes planting seeds of questions that I hope they may follow. Directly questioning others on their firmly held beliefs tends to make them double down which I suspect is what has happened to you. I hate being attacked verbally. I enjoy hearing about your journey.

@annmarie6870

2 жыл бұрын

I’m an INSP I believe. Not sure if that has anything to do with why I’m the person who questions everything to

@Alaytheo

2 жыл бұрын

I'm an INTJ. I've had some issues with aspects of the execution of Christianity, but I love Christ more than ever.

@rheannonfultz6449

2 жыл бұрын

I am an INFJ as well and feel the same way! I love your passive yet thoughtful take on the situation.

@olive4naito

Жыл бұрын

Having come from Christianity, I can explain the "why". The entire reason for being a Christian is for your soul to be "saved" from an eternity in hell. They'll tell you that it's about being godly, but I found out later that fearing hell isn't godly at all.

@Alaytheo

Жыл бұрын

@olive4naito The fear of hell is not a motivation if you're truly a Christian. Happiness is in a life lived with God.

I watched to the end and I enjoyed your talk in this and one other blog as well. Keep up the good work! Thank you.🦋🎶

I recently left the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization where I was a member for half my life. I’m now 55 and I’m trying to figure out what the hell happened. I’m searching for answers and I’m feeling quite bewildered. So far I am soaking up your channel like a sponge, and I appreciate your thoughts.😊

@BobbyHo2022

Ай бұрын

Poor thing. I always thought Jw's and Mormons were the easiest to research and see their cultist origins just by quick Google searches. But I never understood how a true God would allow people to be deceived. The crappy part is these people are family. And that leaving em leaves a part of us.

My take on why Christians get "so mean and nasty" has something to do with what Christianity has become. It's supposed to be based on the teachings of Jesus....but has slowly evloved (devolved?) to a point where his teachings are difficult to ascertain among all of the added (b.s.?) that has basically distorted his teaching. I often think it's possible that, in an effort to use Christianity as a tool for social control...it was, shall we say, "modified"...maybe even with the best of intentions....but as usually happens when we resort to manipulation, there is always a price to pay eventually....even if the short-term benefits "seem to" justify the means. Once Christianity started with the "believe or go to hell" message (using fear as a motivating factor) it pulled in many many people....but for the wrong reasons. I don't call myself a Christian, personally, but I've never heard a single teaching which came from Jesus himself that I didn't resonate with. I don't like to limit my experience by choosing any particular religion...I believe they all have very cool ideas to offer, and that "Truth" with a capitol T cannot be contained or claimed by any one group of mere mortals. I fall more into the "Believe nothing - Entertain possibilities" school of thought. I mean, 1. some things cannot be proven nor disproven, so it makes no sense to waste time/energy attempting to convince anyone else of any particular religious belief....2. We're all here on our own personal journeys and were given the capacities for both personal spiritual experience and also for sorting things out logically, and because we've been naturally endowed with both these capacities I feel we're meant to use them "both" and to do the best we can to continually strive to find a place of integration between them. Personally, I feel it's just "too easy" to take a pre-packaged belief system and be done with it, but I can imagine that may be exactly what some people need, so I don't judge, in fact, I would wholeheartedly encourage anyone to move toward what feels right for them at any given stage in their life. One last thought regarding your comment "personal experience isn't as reliable as people want it to be": I would say that all of those people are "telling the truth"....They're telling the truth of their own experience. But that truth can never be taken as "objective truth" or "the one and only truth" that applies to everyone on earth. . It can never be taken by others as a reason to take on that same "belief"....but that doesn't mean their experience wasn't a profound and "real" step on their own path to ultimate Truth . Maybe it's up to each of us to find our own path to Truth...and maybe the paths to that Truth are as variable as individuals themselves? oh...and one "LAST last thought" :)) I'm a real proponent of "evidence" wherever it can be used, which is basically in things related to objective physical reality. I understand that any given account of someone else's spiritual experience taken by itself, and without the context of prior experience etc of the person who had that experience, naturally makes it impossible to truly "grasp" what that person experienced. I think these types of experiences are so personal that trying to convey them to others is next to impossible. I guess what I'm getting at is to say that some things that are "real" or "true" will never come with "evidence" and this is where the idea of "faith" comes in. Not "faith" as imposed on us by fear...or upbringing....or religious dogma....but rather "faith" based on our own searching & experience...and that closing ourselves off completely to anything that doesn't come with objective evidence can close us off from half of who we are...the spirtual part of ourselves...which, I think could be an unfortunate over-correction for having had to pull away from previous beliefs that may have been formed by default through upbringing, fear or religious dogma, etc... Put another way.....Is it possible that there's a spiritual dimension that is intrinsic to who we are that exists regardless of how many different "religions" exist....or how distorted any on of them may have become?

@tierrasanta1501

3 жыл бұрын

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

@cerealrakist7360

3 жыл бұрын

I recommend for you to read or listen to here on KZread, lost books of the Bible nag hammadi library . It will blow your mind and entertain you

@AndreaDiaz-rc3iy

3 жыл бұрын

Okay but this comment😳✨✨✨

I feel the same about the Bible. I could at least try to entertain the concept of a god, or a creator much more easily then I can believe in a book written by men, re written a hundred times, and reinterpreted many many times in order to fit the values of society at the time. Also, if you watch documentaries about the origins and history of the Bible and other religious texts you'll learn there is a lot that has been changed and even been omitted from original scrolls. So its a book made by men telling us what They think we need to hear and then say its God's word. That just really bothers me. Love this discussion. Thank you for making this! 👏❤😊

@livinia296

3 жыл бұрын

Watch blogging theology on youtube Watch One message foundation on youtube.

@annmarie6870

2 жыл бұрын

Hm. 🤔 Very interesting

@stegokitty

2 жыл бұрын

//a book written by men, re written a hundred times in order to fit the values of society at the time// Firstly -- No, it wasn't. The Scriptures we have today are what was originally written, and we know this by the massive number of manuscripts, hand-written copies (something like over 9,000 of them, either full copies or "fragments" which can be anything from missing the last paragraph to having only the first or middle paragraph). The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew and then later translated to Greek for the non-Hebrew speaking Jews at the time, but the Hebrew Scriptures continued to be painstakingly copied and checked and both the Hebrew and Greek have been translated directly into whatever language such as Latin, German, English, Japanese, etc. The Scriptures of the New Testament were written in Greek and translated directly from there into whatever language, including Latin, German, English, Japanese, etc. The "values of society" are a total laugh. You didn't spend too much time thinking before you said that one ... nor really anything you've said.

@nathanzanders9810

2 жыл бұрын

@@stegokitty Your 'unchanged' Bible says that they will know you by your love. When Christians like you and I behave and speak as if we "understand all mysteries and knowledge [...] but have not love, [we] are nothing" (1 Cor. 13). The points you are making, even if they were true, are absolute trash so long as you continue to speak like this. The comment you made might be the greatest counter-apologetic argument made in this whole comment section. That being said... I agree that the Bible has maintained a shocking level of compliance to it's original form given all available resources. It's a literary phenomenon by most accounts and deserves some respect from every world-view because of that (as far as I can tell). But our prints of it are not as perfect and unchanged as stegokitty claims. Entire stories, like the 'cast the first stone' story in John, aren't present in our earliest copies of the book. But I am a protestant nonetheless, and I think there is good reason to agree. Most of the serious theologians I know are very active in knowing what was added after the original manuscript and acknowledging that those additions have little canonical authority accordingly. As far as the rest of scripture, the question is if the original manuscripts were actually inspired by God without human intervention in the meanings portrayed. That, of course, is a much more complex question and deserves assessment like what a court might do to evidence or testimony before accepting it as valuable in a ruling. I'm not going to get into all the reasons why I think it's valid evidence just because I'm getting tired of typing. But please know that at least some of us really are looking into these differences, are assessing the evidence as thoroughly as we know how, and finding good reason to believe it. As imperfect as any process of reasoning must be, it's the best I can do.

@polystrate1

2 жыл бұрын

@@stegokitty God should have done a better job at expressing his word. How about an update or 2. It has been 2000 years. Why reveal it at a time when it can't be verified? People aren't asking for a lot.

Watched til the end! Love seeing other people's deconstruction stories and embracing more logical approaches to these kinds of societal infrastructures.

My wife and I both subscribe to your channel. I am a INTJ and my wife is INFJ. I love your personality content also. So you are well aware of how rare not only our types are but us together as a couple are . We appreciate your honesty, kindness, and seeking the truth and being open minded. I relate to everything you talked about in this video and I believe you presented it well in seeking the truth. I’m bias now but we need more INFJ and INTJ mindset thinking to change the 🌎 😁 . great video👍

@nicolerhyne9928

2 жыл бұрын

Awwww!!! I'm sorry to be all in your comment business but I love your comment and subscribe as well. Love his content and agree. Raised Christian but I totally identify as a spiritual person. I just know what feels right to my soul. How I was raised does not. I'm INFJ and my boyfriend is INTJ. I looove these discussions.

@nicolerhyne9928

2 жыл бұрын

Check out Neville Goddard. This makes more sense to me.

@jeremiahclark389

2 жыл бұрын

@@nicolerhyne9928 Wow that’s very cool you are that personality type combination like us. I appreciate the comment about my comment and I will definitely check out the recommended person you mentioned

Damn, it feels really weird that this video resonates so well with me. Its as if someone else is voicing out whats inside my head. Its just beautifully put. Thanks for the videos!

@wildmohn2457

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely it’s time people stand up and question even the strongest and most in stone written authorities. And holy books which have many things in them every intelligent person should at least wonder about and get sceptical. Guess that’s because people want to believe no matter what of Christianity or Human Design or Buddhism or Mediumship or whatever. That think they found their path and that’s easier. It’s easier then doubting and to have different perspectives on all those things.

Clay's just casually roasting all our arguments lol. I actually found this rather interesting, thanks for sharing !

@iMrAsono

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t think they were “good” arguments tbh

@gm3entertainment

Жыл бұрын

@@iMrAsono which arguments?

I really appreciate this video. I watched to the end. The thing a lot of people say to me, not even necessarily as an argument but as a kind of reason as to why I ended up leaving is that I just didn't do enough. Didn't pray enough or study the bible enough or fast enough... It's ironic because it was precisely in the process of studying more of the bible and the history of christianity that I realised that the things I believed just didn't hold up like I thought they would.

@heatherm5148

3 жыл бұрын

Hugs to you. I'm in the same boat.

@beulahalex5476

3 жыл бұрын

@@heatherm5148 Wish you all of the best Heather.

@heatherm5148

3 жыл бұрын

@@beulahalex5476 thank you. Same to you. I think the most difficult struggle is the desire to save the people I love from the hell they have created for themselves here due to their current values and beliefs...

@dengholm

3 жыл бұрын

I made the opposite, the evidence is really overwhelming for me, maybe we read different books.

@josephpostma1787

Жыл бұрын

@@dengholm I am not what your evidence is. Could you give an example of a book giving evidences for your God belief? Is it The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel?

I watched to the end. I was a Christian until about age 18. I'm now an atheist and read a lot of Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins. I agreed with all your observations. Good video!

As a believer I love discussions like this as it gets me studying why I believe. When you spoke in reference to those Christians who are actually nasty, it made me think of the apostle Peter who welded his sword trying to protect Jesus. You mentioned how the Bible was written years after the fact. The Bible did span many years by many authors which is another fact that we agreed on. The prophecy that was written about the coming Messiah detailed over 300 prophecies that told about the birth, life and death of the one to come. It was 100% accurate on all 300 accounts by one Man. It wasn’t just 12 people but over 500 who witnessed Jesus after his death on the cross and saw him in the flesh not in spirit. Thomas was told He was alive but He didn’t believe it until he had proof. It’s hard to believe without the physical proof and I totally get it. All we have is the written word. Paul has given a good testimony as he encountered Christ on his journey to arrest and bring in these so called Christian believers. These men suffered physically gruesome fates all because they would not deny Christ and they would not stop talking about it. When you mentioned the Muslim faith vs Christian faith etc. they are both rooted in the same line but by different mothers one from a freed woman and one that was in bondage. God used miracles in those days to actually prove that it was only by Him. Once the promise was fulfilled and Jesus said it was finished their were no more prophecies because it was done. We have the past, present and future in one book. The Lord told Thomas that he needed a sign to believe but blessed are those who believe without seeing. I’m a simple person not college educated or some theologian I like to keep things simple and not complex. It’s the simple human nature that makes me believe because I interject myself on how I would respond if I were in the same situation as those who were written about and I ask myself if I were faced with a torturous death would I give my life for someone if it were not true. Would I willingly be skinned alive or thrown into hot oil and boiled. The fact that all these writers that lived at different times but yet tell a story that’s intertwined and fits together is without a doubt miraculous. When you see things happen today like you find in 2nd Timothy how the world is growing colder it confirms your faith. When you read a scripture and it pertains to something your going through or a week later you experience something that brings it to your remembrance. We don’t actually have the knowledge to know and understand God but he gave us a way to know him better by giving us the written word to know his attributes. We will never fully understand no matter how educated we are. There is one thing that’s intriguing is how many devote time to God and how many devote time on not believing. Is it spiritual driven and if so would it explain the two forces at work as in Good vs. Evil. God vs. Satan. Just another question to ponder.

@Triay314

2 жыл бұрын

Well said

@gicobra1159

Жыл бұрын

An interesting question. A bad one, insulting even. You imply that people whom leave church/Christianity are evil…literally. Also, of course Jesus “fulfilled” all the prophecies. Because they weren’t prophetic. Early church fathers intentionally looked into the OT to find verses that fit Jesus. It’s not prophetic when you are looking BACK in history to make prophecy.

In 28:38 you asked a question which reminded me of the Samarian woman at the well with Jesus. I had highlighted it because it was an a-ha moment. After she left in awe and excitement( Jesus forgave her) she spoke to the towns people about HER experience and the Bible said many believed however, towards the end the story it says what the group told the woman. I'll paraphrase: we did not believe because you said so but because we experienced it ourselves.. I found that Intriguing because they would have remainder skeptics had they not witnessed Jesus in the flesh doing the works. So my question to self and others is why do you believe? Do you think there's a possibility that you might have been influenced by someone's euphoria and you wanted to have that as well? I feel that many churches do well in creating euphoric environments.

I did watch to the end, and found your thoughts to be complete, respectful and insightful. Good on ya' Clay.

@girl123boy456

2 жыл бұрын

So did I and it was like listening to myself 15yrs ago. 😁 Would luv to have a Monthly Podcast Show with @Clay. Know we’d make a great Team.

Thank you for these videos!! I’m still searching & deconstructing. Hearing your arguments is validating as well as thought provoking.

I appreciate your perspective. A few things you have said are very interesting to me. Thanks for making me think...more than usual. 😊

Really great stuff - please continue these. I LOVE that you focused so much on personal experience because it is so powerful. I’d say not to focus on spending too much time arguing with people directly- as you know, it often takes years for folks to undo their indoctrination. The important thing is putting insightful content out there that gets people to question and see the process/thoughts you have in a admirable/polite fashion. Religion has caused immense net harm - having these videos serves as a resource for those who are interested in not having blind faith. Not sure if you have a Patreon- but if these great videos continue, please count me in!

Thank you. I've watched both and I've NEVER heard it explained the way you have. I was raised Christian and agree with you 💯. I'm also INFJ and usually just keep my thoughts to myself. Because it's next to impossible to explain " it just doesn't feel right". Thank you. Thank you.

I watched both videos to the end and the things you actually said have always been true for me which is why I always will be a sceptic but I do genuinely love discussing religion with the right kind of people but if it turns into a sermon or an attempt to conversion I am turned off since they are never going to convince me to convert to whatever faith they are arguing for. A fellow INFJ.

Great video, Clay. I watched until the very end. I wish I was as articulate as you when trying to make my points. Unfortunately I'm not, so I usually just keep my thoughts to myself.

@nicolerhyne9928

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly!

@brookebergum7962

2 жыл бұрын

Same

Hi Clay. I grew up as Christian, but reached the same point of questioning my believes and walked away from my faith for many years. I found my way back, so I believe this gives me a chance to try to explain something. a) As a Christian, I am thankful for your season of questioning. I actually believe that you are closer to finding God than when you where in one of those churches that don't practice what they preach. b) I cannot give you the prove of God's existence, no one person can. It is kind of illogic to seek prove of an spiritual being on the physical world, don't you think? It would be like seeking the evidence of the moon craters on earth. All you are going to get is pictures, or descriptions from the people who have personally been there. The only one who gives testimony is God himself through his Holy Spirit. Literally, what I am saying is, you need to ask Him for the prove of his existence. c) I am very glad for you, that you don't believe because of stupid arguments, keep searching for the truth buddy. If you are sincere, you will find it. d) Do you have a "before and after" experience as a Christian? I am sure you have heard the concept of... being in a garage does not make you a car. Lastly, I am very sorry that you have had so many experience with non-true Christians all this time. It hurts a lot, I know this by experience. In here you asked... which religion should I try first. My advice is... NONE. Seek God, not religion. Those are two very different things. God is the way, religion is how man interprets Him, and men gets it wrong very often.

Thanks for your courage in questioning and sharing your thoughts on this topic.

Made it to the end! Found your videos by coincidence yesterday, I have enjoyed listening to your rational explanations and great arguments. Keep been truthful to yourself!

Another exceptional video Clay! You provide the same logical ideologies my philosophy professor presented. At the end of the day religion is based off explaining the unknown, it allows people to feel better about the things in which they/we as a race have not yet discovered answers for. If it makes a person feel better so be it, but that doesn't make it true/right. Also I laughed hystericaly at the "flavor of God" phrase you keep using, might have to use that one myself lol.

I, like you, am willing to discuss any subject, at any time without judgement. I am completely open to all ideas from others and over my life I have found that these discussions are grist for my mental mill. It is rare that I meet others that have the same willingness. If we ever met in person, we might converse for days on end and both come out the other end richer for it. BTW, I just made it to the end. Loved it.

Aye, I made it through the whole video! :) Awesome video as always, definitely good food for thought. You definitely put a lot of half-baked thoughts I've had in the past into words. I think I honestly have a bit of an odd take on this given my upbringing, and while I'm a bit busy at the moment, I'll try to write out my thoughts on this later today. Thanks again for the fantastic video!

@tracik1277

3 жыл бұрын

I for one am very interested in your odd take, or anyone else’s odd take, those are the best!

As a Muslim, I don't believe in blind faith. Reason must lead you to your beliefs.

Clay, this is an honest question to understand what you're experiencing. Do you feel more at peace after pulling away from your previous faith or is there a different type of nagging uncertainty in the life you've chosen now? What moral compass do you follow if there is no God?? Also, what is the info of the metro church you spoke of in a video. I have just today became acquainted with your channel and this is my 2nd video. Thanks for sharing your deconstruction story.

Love it, as always 🙏 For me it doesn't really matter what you talk about. It's just incredible listening to someone whose reasoning resonate with me 😍 I believe in nature, no intention, just energy. And it lives inside us, we are all a part of nature. That's enough for me. I've seen the force of nature ❤ Sending you love Clay ❤ Stay you!

I stumbled upon your channel and enjoy your videos alot... i think you have a great personality and sincerity to deal with the topics you speak about... your very non judgmental and explain your thoughts very well... i also try to converse in such a manner and agree theres a tipping point wherr frustration or burn out happens...i hope you continue to make videos about what ever you feel like talking about and i think the conversation and questions you bring up are valid and need to be asked.. keep up the good work... and like you stated an open mind seems to be a better attitude when it comes to things then having a closed off mind....

Thank you, Clay! You've made some really good points. I appreciate your honesty and openness. I've watched your video about leaving Christianity twice. You've helped me to sort out my thoughts a bit. Thanks again for sharing your experience!

I watched this to the end. It was every interesting. Thank you for sharing your thoughts :). I was raised Christian and I still use it as the base of my spirituality but I often run into problems with my Christian friends and family because I'm not afraid to question Christianity and religion in general. This all started when I visited my best friends church after our half day at university. And I was so baffled as to how they were interpenetrating the same words from the same book so differently, they even prayed out loud and wore jewelry and I'd been taught that's evil. We were both Christians, just different branches. And all I could think about on the way home was "well we both can't be right" so now I just say I'm spiritual. I don't hate Christians, or religious people, I just don't understand it, it doesn't fit my life and my world view.

I find that logic and reasoning vs faith is important to me as well. Ignorance is not bliss for me...perhaps that's a strong INFJ trait. I would rather not waste countless hours on activities based on a false pretense and spend that precious time exploring the real world(s) around us. That's a life well spent (to me).

@StephanBarrett

3 жыл бұрын

@@sojourneroftheland I enjoy the supernatural world-for example, the Lord of the Rings trilogy is excellent. I just don't pray to it, count on it to extend my life, or waste time pondering what *could be* in a world that exists outside of reality. By definition, we'll never be able to determine it exists. Any "proof" that it does is logically incoherent. I'm okay with others believing their supernatural world exists. I only object when people use their belief of the supernatural to justify their conviction for society to operate in specific ways.

Is there any chance I can talk to you by email not to convince you of christianity but to talk about a lot of supernatural experience through many beliefs like budism and native American beliefs as well as christianity I am not in agreement with it but one thing in these thoughts we humans forget paranormal experience and I have had my body supernatural healings seen angels seen heaven would love to talk just to get a better sense of how to tell my story as well as being challenged by thinking about things.

Leaving Christianity was the most liberating thing I have ever done. I felt I was trapped in a prison and once I broke those shackles I had a pretty blissful experience.

Ugh. That pastor you mentioned at 15:00 or so...also the reason why I do not want to spend time with many Christians. Anyway, hey Clay! I did watch the full video and honestly, I agree with almost just about everything you said. I remember when I first got saved, I was trying my best to "save everyone" from Hell. And over time as I became more familiar with other faiths and people who did not share mine, I grew more perspective and I released a lot of things I used to vehemently use as arguments. Now I see many Christians make these arguments and I shake my head at it cause it makes them look so bad. I don't even really identify with the title "Christian" anymore due to this. Rather as a "Jesus-follower." Christian holds so many implications that I just do not want to be associated with anymore. But as a "Jesus-follower" for me, I just make it clear that whatever I can see and verify to the best of my ability that Jesus taught and spoke of, I am with that. The faith of Christianity all hinges upon Him anyway. So for me, it has been things like first making sure Jesus actually lived, and then if He actually was crucified, WHY He was crucified (which I have found to be cause He claimed to be The Messiah and Son of God). And then Him resurrecting, which is the biggest struggle, but so many witnesses saw Him after He died according to documents, and seeing how The Apostles died for this cause when they could have just declined ever having seen Him after the crucifixion, I feel like that might mean something? Though I can understand how that even is still not "proof." Just "Ti reasoning" for it to hold itself up. I am curious however to what you think about Jesus' life and what it meant? I know that you said there is no way to verify He said what The Bible claims He said, but would The Four Gospels being 4 different accounts of the same story from different angles not be valid for something? And I still can't get over how those same people decided to sacrifice themselves for that cause if they did not actually see Jesus after He died. And then Paul's experiences too. Unless somehow all of these figures did not exist? Meh, anyway, yeah! I am with you. Sure, I still believe in the faith, but I certainly like to make sure I have good reason and not be passive-aggressive nor arrogant with what I think I know. Thanks for even taking the time to not only make this video, but the last one you made, and then reading this comment. Love your content, and will be keeping up.

@dominicsey3032

3 жыл бұрын

I made a comment but it got deleted when I edited to share a video, at least that's what I think happened. With Jesus, there are alternate theme makings and hypotheses that account for the world as we know it given its existence. What I'm saying is one picks a theme and a hypothesis for a narrative woven to be accepted. Prior to a historical narrative is the reality those events occured in with what is possible, likely and the frequency of occurrence. For every perspective there's a model of complete reality you're in to perceive and think from. I doubt Clay thinks much of Jesus. He grants that experiences are there or possible but has a heuristic where he thinks alternates may account for it instead of the experience being what it is in the Christian interpretive scheme. It's a bias of habitation, like getting used to clothes you're wearing without being distracted by the sensation. This keeps prejudices and expectations hidden from us. I say more in my comment to his video, which you're free to look for. I appreciate your comment as it's where I personally drew the line to choose my reality commitment. Lastly check out Paulogia's response to the questions you posed. It hits on what I'm saying about narratives. Cheers. kzread.info/dash/bejne/l5d7pbigqdvZZNI.html Also a debate kzread.info/dash/bejne/qH57tMmxm93YmqQ.html

@heatherm5148

3 жыл бұрын

You may want to check out the "Jews for Judaism" channel... but also you may not. I have taken the time to research many of the things they have said in explanation for the majority of the questions you have asked in your comment & they have been verifiable. The only problem is, once you know the truth about christianity, you will have to choose how you wish to respond to it.

@dominicsey3032

3 жыл бұрын

@@heatherm5148 that's an interesting channel. I've watched many of their videos and gained perspective on things I thought were obvious. Good recommendation.

I find it very comforting to know theres people out there with the same personality and thought processes as me. Thank you,everything you say rings true to me.I was introduced to you by your fish and birds video.Im alone my whole life and i didnt know others like us existed.So yes,thank you for letting me feel like i belong and that theres hope to find friends or a romantic partner one day that can understand me.I was plagued by stuttering as a child which isolated me and maybe made me feel alone and gave me social anxiety.I think that combined with my infj personality made me a true observer. I am Afrikaans speaking from South Africa in Cape Town.On the point of religion,even if it turns out that theres evidence for a god,i can not love a god that allows all this suffering,pain and sickness to be present in this world.jesus suffered on the cross for a few hours,and then he became a king with superpowers........ But there are humans on earth suffering horribly in pain for years on end and their reward is hell if they didnt believe in jesus.Just an anecdote......people died from tooth disease in jesus time,why didnt he just gave us the formula for antibiotics then.😉

@raycaster4398

3 жыл бұрын

You're a very smart young man. See my other comments on this video. *One comment I made as "proof" the Bible was written with NO divine assistance or inspiration* is that *the fact of evolution* is missing from the Bible (didn't fit the political narrative!), and specifically related to your comment is, *WHY did God and Jesus not explain "the germ theory" to people and believers?* I can't imagine the millions of people (and infants that died in agony of severe dehydrating diarrheal illness) who drank dirty contaminated water whose lives could have been saved or prolonged if Jesus had told people "don't poop in rivers," and "boil your water." This is *proof that the writers were NOT divinely inspired, that no one then knew about the fact of evolution or science of clean healthful water consumption.* The Bible was written by ancient naïve unsophisticated pre-Science back-country desert-dwelling Bronze Age men -- herders, tax men, fishermen, etc. -- and is hopelessly outdated, divisive, mostly irrelevant and unwoke. Ray: "Ya can't just cherry pick the good parts out of the Bible and forget about the horrifically bad stuff." Other demonstrably false stories in the Bible that made scientific *claims about places on Earth in time and space,* include Genesis, the story of Adam and Eve, Jonah surviving three days in a fish's belly (lol) underwater, the Exodus, the Noachal Flood, the destruction of two cities (burning alive innocent women and children, birdies, guppies, and butterflies), etc., etc.

@victoriousjoy9338

3 жыл бұрын

@@raycaster4398 If you read the Bible, you'd know that when God gave Moses the Levitical law, He did tell them theses things. For instance, He told them to carry a paddle so they could bury their poop. Cleansing was done with running water. How to cook meat so it was safe etc. etc.

@raycaster4398

3 жыл бұрын

@@victoriousjoy9338 Mostly aesthetic attempts or common sense, woefully woefully incomplete. Your statement Moses "told them these things" is disingenuous if not outright misleading. Like other christian apologia. Science (Dr. John Snow and Louis Pasteur) showing microscopic water contaminants not visible to the naked eye and development of water health and treatment did NOT occur until the late 1880s. Darwin's theory was published in 1859. It has since been elevated to irrefutable scientific fact.

@cheeriodineerio5773

3 жыл бұрын

@@raycaster4398 darwins fairy tale religion has been squashed by his very own standards. He said himself that if it becomes known that cells are made of something so small that it cant function at all with even a small irregularity, then his theory obviously wouldn't work. Its called "irreducible complexity" check it out. And also you need to know that the Creator of the universe wants you to look for him. He has the answers to all the questions you have and answers for the questions you dont even know to ask yet.

@raycaster4398

3 жыл бұрын

@@cheeriodineerio5773 Please get an understanding and knowledge of biological science, then come back please. You need an "education in facts." But perhaps you didn't get to higher education yet. Darwinian evolution is a fact. The arrogance to claim to know what a "Creator" wants!! Typical. ANSWERS! Nobody has gotten any answers from any demonstrable interactive transcendent Being in hundreds and thousands of years! 4000 global major and minor religions, sects and denominations, all disparate, incongruous and contradictory. Each claims proprietary knowledge and claims only THEIR god is the one true god. Many are so intolerant they KILL for "God." The best logical answer is THEY ARE ALL WRONG. There is ZERO evidence of such a creator. If you've got it, let's hear it. Faith is the wound that knowledge heals. Read my other comments.

RE: Prayer -- "If you have the faith of a mustard seed, you can tell that mountain to move and it would cast itself into the sea." Classic con setup. Create a situation where if something doesn't work, it's YOUR fault and not because the premise was flawed in the first place.

Gave a like right away because you're talking about this!! I'm sure the content will deserve many more likes. 😂

Watched till the end - I've never been religious but it's interesting, I think many people use these kinds of reasoning and arguments outside of religion for almost anything as well. I wish we lived in a more aware society. The smarter you get, the more you question your own sanity

Due to being in this pandemic and being home more than ever Ive began to deconstruct my own beliefs. And I got in an argument with some of my Christian friends about the morality of hell and my own cousin called me Satan. Which Im not going to lie it hurt tremendously. Especially being raised to absolutely hate Satan the origin of all evil. And I get called that just for bringing up an argument. Which goes to show how brainwashed he truly is.

@mazoul10

3 жыл бұрын

Sadly, it shows how judgmental, unkind and hurtful people become from "biblical" christianity.

@beestingerz9738

3 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry to hear this Kevin. Maybe one day he'll repent.

@BobbyHo2022

Ай бұрын

Yeah. I just keep it to myself.

I watched to the end. I really appreciate you bringing up this topic. It's something that doesn't get discussed often enough. Thank you!

Amazing video and I like your approach to respond. Some people are so aggressive, they get extremely defensive and start to attack anyone who doesn’t agree with them. It’s so tiring. Even those who are like “freedom! let’s be free”, not just with religion, as soon as you say something that doesn’t agree with them they start to pound your head with their judgments and they attack and you’re like are you any different? It’s so easy to live peacefully with acceptance but they like to shove their beliefs down your throat because they’re desperate to be right and can’t afford to be wrong.

@NadaAlawadhi

3 жыл бұрын

One more thing: The reason why Muslims are nice is because you were criticizing Christianity, and they like it they want to convert you to Islam 😂 but if you talked about Islam, you’ll get the defensive attacks and hate, in a huge way! I am “from” the Muslim world.

Great follow up from the prequel episode!

@charlessantiago7357

3 жыл бұрын

The truth is u must experience the present of jesus christ, if u did not experience jesus, u are still very shallow an have doubth in believing bro

I remember this one incident from years ago, I compared the Bible to Aesop's Book of Fables as they both contain lessons and morals. I was a teenager just "thinking freely", but that one idea seemed to torch many of my friendships.

I really like your approach clay. Very logical, well substantiated and gentle. You are coming more and more across as an INTP. Keep up the good work!

@t.6071

11 ай бұрын

No, INFJs are logical, substantiated and gentle.

I find your reasoning very honest and very informed. Really helpful.

This video and the previous one have been a MASSIVE help to me. I used to be one of those unquestioning Christians until my beliefs, each one were challenged in a big way. Everything you say makes perfect sense to me, you articulate everything so well in a way that makes me envious. I honestly thank you for making these videos as they were very timely for me. Thank You Clay.

The estimate of the number of past religions is closer to 100,000 and there are up to 4000+ major and minor religions, sects, and denominations extant in the world. Many religions come and go, some last but a few days. There are probably three thousand different gods worshipped TODAY, including the motorcycle god of the John Frum Cargo Cult of modern Papua New Guinea. Christianity developed syncretically from monotheistic Judaism which itself morphed from various local polytheistic pagan religions of the Levant. Christianity is "monotheistic," wait ... no THREE Gods -- the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit .. so that makes it polytheistic, especially with the dozens of saints (just like the pagan Romans had "gods for everything!"). Wait, ONE God -- so now, I'm totally confused .... Nonetheless, one must say that with so so many disparate, contradictory, discordant, and even violent warring factions, and all of them CERTAIN that their religion and theirs ALONE is the one true religion, it is eminently logical to conclude that THEY ARE ALL WRONG. Humans are very subject to "hyperactive human agency" where as an ancient evolutionary survival feature, it paid to "imagine" the presence of danger rather than risk leaping forward. “The human psyche is prone to innate biases that prevent us from being rational. Social scientists have identified over a dozen issues that lead us astray and cause us to make serious errors in judgment" ("The Biblical God Doesn't Exist." John Espinoza, 2013). Today I witnessed an example of religionist "confirmation bias" and "post-purchase rationalization" when The Weather Channel showed a Nashville man whose house was totally flooded out (again, twice in 10 years!) who said, "I was blessed that we all made it!!" Ray: Why didn't God "bless" the man to save his house?! A man so religious and fervent? An example of irrational thinking, and bias. Please read "The Illusion of God's Presence: the Biological Origins of Spiritual Longings" by John C Wathey (2016) Certain mind-altering drugs act as "entheogens," that mimic a spiritual experience (Peter Watson, 2014). Independent of drugs, this FEELING can happen with certain strong stressors: marked physiological stress, near death, loss of job, bad break up, family death, catastrophe. They represent "personal revelation" (e.g. a white steed flew Muhammad to heaven) and are irreproducible. There is evidence that the indoctrination and brainwashing (FORCED Catholic school, yeshiva, madrassa, Sunday school, etc.) of young religionists can result in "hard-wiring" of young dendritic connections. This is done to young people when their neuropsychiatric systems are most vulnerable. Please look up Christian "theodicies." They are faux-logical rationalities used by Abrahamic religionists to explain the unexplainable. E.g. "It's a mystery," or "God is testing us," or "God made Evil so we would know what good is," etc. The best logical fit, the last theodicy is, "There is no God," which is always relegated to a non-sequitur. Christianity, for example, DID have positive effects (charity, care of sick and poor, happiness, etc.) by forming an orderly moral fabric that provided meaning and purpose for human life, back when life was brutish, nasty and short, and when nights were long, dark and scary. Today, with the benefit of the 500 years of the Scientific Revolution, the scientific method, and empiricism and reason we know Abrahamic religion is nevertheless totally false. False certainty. False claims only (e.g. the Bible), with no evidence. Science WORKS, Abrahamic religion does NOT. Science: what IS. Abrahamic religion: What OUGHT to be. There is a scientific study that documents MORE anxiety in Abrahamic religionists at time of death. They are very scared of being judged and punished. There are two blinded randomized studies in major medical journals showing no effect (or negative effect!) of intercessory prayer for hospitalized heart patients. Prayer (Wathey, 2016) represents recrudescence of the infantile mother-infant relationship and represents crying to mother. Also, prayer represents an anxious child looking over their shoulder to make sure mommy is still there. Also, it's postulated (by Freud) that prayer represents a version on the obsessive-compulsive disorder spectrum where the person wishes to restore order. Prayer, however, may have a positive effect (in the praying person only) as a form of mindfulness. Yes, scripture states that you have to BELIEVE FIRST before you get faith or benefit from it (Hebrews 11:6, NIV). Entirely illogical. Blind obedience. Ray: "A cult of bullies." Speaking of bullies (!), from my reading, I can recount how Christianity is a cult. Now THAT is revealing!! A Christ cult, a blood sacrifice cult, a sadomasochist cult, a cannibalism cult, a revenge cult, a cult of sexual repression, a slavery cult, etc.,(Ray: "Maybe later"). I note that in the past few days there were at least two young smart women on MBTI KZread who practically gushed over Christianity and "God," the Biblical God who blamed Eve, a woman, for original sin and then damned all humanity because of her "mistake" (curiosity!). The Bible is rife with misogyny and maltreatment of women as chattel. Please read the story of Lot, the death angels, and Lot's poor virgin daughters(!); read what God did to his wife(!). Even today, in Catholicism, women are rejected in the ecclesial class. Or, look at the way women are treated today under Islamic law. Also, the story of "the Immaculate Conception" where according to the Bible, no man's penis entered virgin Mary. Instead an invisible "Y" chromosome somehow materialized in Mary to give forth a male child. Since the days of magical thinking are over, one wonders how in actuality Mary was inseminated (by a MAN!). Henceforward, was the history of sexual repression in the world -- that sex is a "sin." Ray: "No dirty deeds for THIS one -- Mary -- God's mother(!)." In modern times of medical science, we know that sex is normal and healthy for body and mind. One of Ray's intriguing INFJ theories is that the unfortunate sexual repression (cult) of Abrahamic religion has resulted in a pent up aggression in males who frustrated and anxious, unleash war on each other, rather than making love. Sad. Blame it all on women! How Axial Age, chauvinistic, patriarchal, sexist and misogynist. The Jewish Bible (the Old Testament), and the Christian Bible (the New Testament) were written by dozens of anonymous or nom de plume ancient unsophisticated, pre-Science, back-country desert-dweller Bronze Age fishermen, musicians, various prophets, tax men, herders, physicians, wise men, desert warriors, etc., with NO divine inspiration. The Book of Mormon and the Koran were written by claimants (Smith, Muhammad) of personal (unwitnessed) revelation. Correct. Our morals are cultural and complex and derive chiefly and originally from ingrained evolutionary "moral intuition," dating to more ancient pagan civilizations of Egypt, China, Persia, etc. They are also evidenced in "proto-moral" form in fellow primates, because it paid to not kill each other and survive in cooperation ("Conscience: The Origins of Moral Intuition," Patricia S. Churchland, 2018). Even today, we see morals and (ethics) are dynamic, and not immutable as seen by Abrahamic religionists. We hope for PROGRESS, that is, better tolerance of "other" -- tolerance of alternate sexual preferences, femaleness, equality of opportunity and race, respect of non-human sentient creatures, etc. We use this ingrained moral intuition to see that many Abrahamic tenets are outdated, inequitable, selfish, mean, unfair, etc. They are outdated by hundreds of years, even millennia (the Jewish Bible was written up to four to six centuries BCE), and are no longer applicable to modern egalitarian societies!! *The single absolute heinous concept of Abrahamic religion I call out forcefully* is the *utter absurdity of forgiveness outside of the law and courts(!!)* by imagining a "Cop in the Sky," i.e. "God," an "all-loving" one -- remember he is the One who committed psychotic global ecocide of The Great Flood, and who heartlessly incinerated innocent women and children, flowers, guppies, and butterflies all, burning them alive(!!), at Sodom and Gomorrah. This Being could see you murder someone today, have you "confess" this massively evil sin against humanity to a "priest" (a dressed up man behind the curtains with NO special powers of any kind), and "forgive" you completely after you've rattled off your run-of-the-mill five 'Our Father's, five 'Hail Mary's,' and five 'Glory Be's.' And if you died tomorrow, you will be seated right next to "the Lord," in the eternal bliss of heaven. *Utterly and cruelly absurd and outrightly dangerous!* There is NO evidence of GOD, no Satan, no demons, no ghosts, no spirits, no heaven, no hell, no soul, no afterlife. Says Ray, a former Catholic and now an 100% certain non-theist, "I am hopeful that others shackled by the mind-control of Abrahamic religion, will learn *The Truth,* and begin to think for THEMSELVES and above all be FREE." A hope that we can live together in peace and tolerance (religion will persist for quite some time -- dismayingly in uncertain times, Abrahamic religion is yet burgeoning forth in the countries and places and American states that also score the worst on the UN Human Development index) with secular humanism and empathetic reciprocity and respect for the ecosphere. Abrahamic religionists: "The burden of proof is on the believer." I'm waiting (please, please do not quote from dusty old tomes written 2500 years ago). But Ray does get to quote the Bible! My top two: Matthew 10:34 "Jesus doesn't bring peace, he brings a sword." Isaiah 45:7 "God admits he's the source of the world's evil." All we are, are Us. Evolution ... cosmological and biological, is god. Hey, Clay ... great work. Courage.

Came across your video by accident and you hit the nail on the head with so many points on this 👏

Hi Clay, I watched til the end! I have most of those thoughts from this video and I have most of the same thoughts that you shared in your video about why you left Christianity and have been watching others videos similar to those. Thanks a lot for sharing🙂

Hello Clay ! I watched to the end ;) Thanks for this video, I really found it interesting. I'm not religious and never was, my family is not either, but a few years ago my sister started to develop her spirituality and I've been struggling to accept this new side of her, being respectful while standing my ground about my beliefs (being an atheist). I wish I could share her your video, but we're french and she doesn't understand english very well (not at this level at least). She's not christian or any kind of "mainstream" religion, but she believe in spirits, gardian angels, past lives and cellular memory. I think she turned to these beliefs in a though period in her life, when she needed to understand her existence in this world and she's in a constant quest of finding answers about herself. It's been difficult to talk about this with her, her being so sure about her beliefs being the truth. Often, when talking about it, I see her arguments and explanations as so specific to her situation, her life, that it could never "work" for everyone. It would make this belief system so complex and most of the time so unfair to others, that I can't possibly accept it as the truth. My mother started to share some of her beliefs and I've been struggling to rationnalize some of this stuff with her, poiting out how irrealistic it is. Often, she doesn't know what to say, as she just accept what she ear and read, not trying to understand it really, because it's easier to accept it as is. They are "guilty" of a lot of the things you explained in your video, applied to their beliefs. It slowly created a divide between them and me, as I find it too painful and difficult to talk about, and it became such a large part of their lives. The thing I struggle the more with is my sister and my mother including me in their belief system even if I don't want to, be it some form of prayer, or believing my spirit would watch over them if I passed (like they believe my grand father spirit is doing).

@mazoul10

3 жыл бұрын

ENFP here. Love your video about why you left and this video as well. My time spent in "church" was some of the most unhappy years ever. I encountered more criticism and unkind people than at any other time of my 60 years alive. I do believe people have spiritual experiences but no more "church" for me. I'm back to being more kind and understanding of others since I left. Some of the worst I've seen on the internet is at "christian sites" where people bash the heck out of each other with all the bible verses they believe substantiate their point. The anger and venom used to upset me. Now I find it comical and wonder where's the "love of christ." I really enjoy your channel.

@mrekullitenumeriketekurani3555

3 жыл бұрын

Idk what words would be the best to reply...But i will try I dont know if you ever heard f Islam?Their Holy book(quran)? I bet most of the people think it is a terrorist faith or something like that....Its not . 100% sure about it If we ever had a conversation for 20 minutes or 30,You would see the proofs of God's existence.. Proofs that you never heard.. There are in the Quran.

As a Christian, I listen to videos such as yours to learn how people such as you think so I can have better answers to questions. But, I also realize that sometimes people want the impossible or almost impossible for answers - which they may never get, and that's ok.

@SleazyeRA

3 жыл бұрын

It comes to a point where you draw the line - this isn't their ''reason'' to not believe but their excuse. Can all-knowledge on the earth be verified 1000% ?? Of course not that's why faith is ''the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.'' (Heb. 11:1)

@B.S._Lewis

3 жыл бұрын

@@SleazyeRA What can't be verified as true using faith?

@allrebel5943

3 жыл бұрын

@@SleazyeRA Quote the Bible to persuade those whom have studied the Bible to the point of realization. Typical lol

@cheeriodineerio5773

3 жыл бұрын

You cant explain reasoning with someone who is illogical or irrational. If someone cant come to the logical conclusion based on the evidence provided they are being blinded by something. As Christians we know who is blinding them. We know that this is a spiritual war we are in and even if i walked God right up to them and introduced them to him they still wouldn't see him because theyre heart has grown cold and having eyes they still cannot see. We can only pray for them because they are truly lost. Christians do not possess the power to save people only God does. We can only give them our testimony and show them the joy in our life the peace that we have that goes beyond their understanding.

@B.S._Lewis

3 жыл бұрын

@@cheeriodineerio5773 Oh sweet irony. Did you use reason to come to the conclusion that there's a bunch of invisible angels and demons fighting all around you? Please walk me through the logical steps. Does it look like this? P1: the bible said it P2: I believe it C: Ghost-like creatures are fighting all around us.

I watched to the end. Your perspective and the way you process ideas are much the same as mine. My story is similar to yours, mutatis mutandis. My Christianity came crashing down when I was in a doctoral program in New Testament studies in Toronto at age forty, after being a Christian since childhood and a minister for seventeen years. It's a tough realization to have, like a ton of bricks, and the trauma to personal identity and social and family networks is severe, but it's the necessary price to pay for personal integrity. Your list of fallacies and examples are good ones. It's refreshing to hear thoughts that echo the ones I had as I was processing my change of perspective nineteen years ago now. Some of the details were specific to the biblical texts I was studying at the time, but the conclusions are generally the same and have the same logical shape. Good for you for getting on KZread and communicating your ideas so well. It took me about ten years after not being a Christian to become convinced evolution is true. Jerry Coyne's Why Evolution is True finally convinced me, specifically his chapter on genetics. The problems of gene copying were similar to those of text copying between the Gospels, and since I was well versed in the latter I had a good background for seeing how genetic material shared between humans and chimpanzees conclusively demonstrated our common genetic ancestry, without appealing to supernaturalism. After Christianity I became a materialist for many years, but in the last five years I have been studying German idealism (Kant and Hegel) and have come to realize that matter as such is a universal concept rather than a collection of particulars and thus requires an immaterial metaphysic. So I'm still on a journey of truth seeking but have no expectation that I will regress back into Christianity, even if the logic of German idealism has some chance of convincing me materialism isn't logically adequate.

I watched to the end of the video. I find your videos to be well thought out. (I've watched 2 so far.) Thanks for making them, and I hope you keep making them. I'm kind of odd in that I don't believe in the supernatural, but I still enjoy going to church, and like doing some Christian practices. I find prayer to be effective. I think there are 2 reasons for this. One is the placebo effect, as you mentioned. The other is that I think it helps me think about the problem in a different way. (The way I was thinking about it wasn't working. Perhaps a different way will help.)

I can totally relate to your experience of becoming a bit of a nihilist after leaving the faith. That's definitely where I've been for the past few months. Currently working through that.

@guthrie_the_wizard

3 жыл бұрын

I’m an atheist and even though I know that one day I’ll die and that will be it for me, I love life and strive to make the world better for those around me and that will follow. I hope that you find your own purpose. If you need any support, there is the Recovering From Religion Foundation or similar. I also found TheraminTrees on KZread to be very meaningful as a channel.

@beulahalex5476

3 жыл бұрын

@@guthrie_the_wizard Wish I'd seen your reply earlier but it's still much appreciated. I'm a theramin trees subscriber but I've never really looked into the Recovering From Religion Foundation. Will definitely do that.

@wildmohn2457

Жыл бұрын

Transpersonal psychology helped me to turn that in a way. Maybe helps too and only because the Christian version is not real doesn’t mean there aren’t other interesting perspectives like from Astraltraveling near death experiences psychedelics or others. It leaves more space for interpretation and allows more to leave it in the mystic, as it is. LOVE

My desire to believe, is very separate from my ability to believe. Can’t buy in. Hopes being fulfilled, through prayer. If the prayer appears to be granted,.. it’s proof. If not, must not be Gods will, or everything happens for a reason, or in Gods timing. Seems so “designed “ to keep the believer, stringing along, no matter how life unfolds. Oh, and of course, your odds increase, the more money you give to your given,...faith leader, or charity characters. Don’t mean to sound sour, there are just too many, logical fallacies, for me. Synchronized events happen to everyone. The story we tell ourselves, is subjective and personal. I resent being judged for my experience of life, by anyone. It’s my journey. My story about it. Others are welcome to theirs. Great conversation, Clay. As usual. Top notch!

Great video Clay. I love your logical approach to all of this. Keep on questioning, challenging and encouraging ppl to exercise their brains and think critically. 👏🏻 Cheers!

I watched until the end, and I have to thank you for having these difficult, yet completely logical and important conversations. I thank you because I grew up with these same questions, and in the last couple years came to the realization that I am, also, an atheist. But I also realized that saying it - or to stop referring to myself as Christian - has been significantly more challenging. So I truly appreciate, not only making me feel like my thoughts on the conversation valid, but also for having the conversation. I'm sure people have shown traits completely opposite of what Christ was believed to have had, and for that I apologize - but also use it as further proof that today's Christians are nothing of the sort. Lol. Thanks again! Love all your videos! -Shari (Also an INFJ)

I have watched till the end and I have to say, Thank you.

Can we have more of these videos? This perspective feels like a breath of fresh air

@ClayArnall

3 жыл бұрын

Trying to decide lately what I should do :) on one hand it’s more peaceful to avoid the religious topics because then I don’t get constant hater messaging me telling me I’m a heathen going to hell, but on the other hand maybe other people find it useful.

@haleyroberts9649

3 жыл бұрын

Clay Arnall I’ll encourage you and say it’s beyond useful for this new generation of people deciding to leave church.

@everest1132

3 жыл бұрын

@@ClayArnall I’m 16 and was born and raised a Christian. I’m not quite a listener but your videos have been very useful to me because I am just starting to question the Christian faith.

I watched to the end :-) Thank you for sharing your thoughts so clearly here and in your "Why I Left Christianity" video. I'm going through a similar process and it's helpful to find another who understands.

George Washington also believed that Christianity was useful. He went to church on Sundays, but he would leave before communion on communion Sundays. The preacher had a talk with him to let him know that it looks bad in the hopes that he would stay and take communion. George did not do so. Instead he stopped attending on communion Sundays. The Age of Reason/Age of Enlightenment encouraged people to think for themselves. Separation of Church and State is necessary to ensure that no one religion can be favored over any other.

Hi Clay, I was stoked to see you put this video out today! Per our conversation on your first video around this, I appreciate that this means enough to you that this obviously is important to you. I know you didn't think I watched the last one but I did so I'll be sure to reference some things here as evidence...see what I did there! :) That is not passive aggressive by the way, that is just trying to keep things lite with a heavy subject :) I love how you broke down those different buckets of arguments. I will tell you that I agree with you on most points as so many of those are shallow. Those wouldn't be reasons I would defend Christianity. I will say though on one point, I still don't feel like you are getting the purpose of Prayer really accurate. I understand you say you have studied the Bible cover to cover and prayed a ton. I'm not saying it's wrong to ask God for a "hedge of protection" or even to help make ends meet by asking for direction a new job or helping to provide for a 2nd car (a clunker not a mercedes) so both parents can work to pay the bils etc.. I heard a pastor say one time, "When you pray, God is going to answer you exactly the way you'd want if you knew what he knows." That helped me and takes away the jeanie in the bottle scenario. Prayer makes more sense that way...it's getting to know your Father better and casting your cares about him. That's what building a relationship is about right? There are many beautiful things about that...it's not about proving he cured someone from cancer as to check off the evidence box. I'm with you, the leg lengthening thing is absolute stupidity. There are so many people who may claim to be Christians that take advantage of things and hurt the testimony of the true gospel. Your last comments on Slavery are also something I would consider digging a little deeper to make sure you aren't just jumping to conclusions. As you know from reading the Bible, the language genre/styles of Scripture matters when reading it. Among them, there is history literature that does not mean God condones slavery but it's describing culture back then. That is just one example. You are incredibly thoughtful, introspective, smart, and articulate. Even if you found evidence tomorrow that you don't believe today and you said wow that is true would still not necessarily make Christianity valid. Everything is pinned on the Resurrection. And there is evidence of it outside of the Bible as well. Would you consider having on a Christian Scholar like a Lee Strobel (former Atheist) on your KZread channel or anyone else you would like to at least talk through the Resurrection? and see if there's anything more compelling than what you understand or believe about it right now? This is the perfect week coming up with Easter next weekend! Great timing. What do you think?

@victoriousjoy9338

3 жыл бұрын

I like your ideas here. Have you seen Bertie Brits on you tube? He simplifies things down to the simple refreshing life of Jesus in us.

@floravalle1625

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Jeff for your comment yo Clay and the rest of us. I do believe in the Lord and I have sinceramente repented and I have a great relationship with the Lord that each morning when I wake you I thank the Lord and for all he has done for us. Happy Easter Jeff🙏

@jeffrohm776

3 жыл бұрын

@@victoriousjoy9338 Thanks! I have not seen Bertie Brits. Pastor in South Africa? The quick clips I've seen he seems to say some solid things. However, not sure about his Family-based theology view being his ministry foundation. Sounds more like Christus Victor is his only reason for Jesus, his death, resurrection, forgiveness etc. rather than being one of the reasons in what I believe Scripture teaches. It sounds like sin, judgement, and sacrifice...the definition of sin is just not partaking in God's inent or purpose does not seem to deal with the whole truth....and that seems to make sense in light of his "Jesus was the tithe" thought (or maybe even book)...interesting in one way but if it's the whole story or only reason, it seems to fall short of the whole council of God and the magnitude of Sin, Justice, and Judgement. Again, haven't seen enough but that was my quick take. Happy Easter!

@jeffrohm776

3 жыл бұрын

@@floravalle1625 That is great news! Thankfully tomorrow Sunday is the reason (and only) we can wake up with a hope and peace that passeth understanding....because it is resurrection Sunday! Happy Easter to you as well, Flora!

@victoriousjoy9338

3 жыл бұрын

@@jeffrohm776 Bertie bases this both on Scripture and the historical understanding as far as how the culture at the time of writing informs the meaning more clearly. But listen over the next 2 week's and you'll get a more holistic view. It's based on God always being good. He is light without any shadow of turning.

I think that you receive a lot of hate and attacks from ppl throughout life because you are right. ppl don't like right ppl. it is intimidating for big majority of ppl. I know your kind mate, keep it up

I watched to the end.

Watched til end! This was fantastic... very informative & logical 😊 I've experienced most of these arguments from family, it mostly comes across as manipulate & insincere. I got a lot of value from this video, felt you explained each circumstance beautifully! Thank you for making this 🙏🙃

See an excerpt (below) from a favorite book of mine that provides a wonderful insight to the Abrahamic religion of Christianity. It demonstrates how such mysterious thick dusty old tomes (Old Testament, New Testament, Quran, Book of Mormon) filled with mythology and falsehoods, were manufactured by men (solely) with the goal of *men controlling men.* *God was created in the image of men.* The concept of original sin -- that all men women and children of innocence will be stained with original sin into perpetuity -- was part of the *guilt and fear strategy of Abrahamic religion!* The threat and fear of eternal damnation! As the Bible goes: A needy bumbling celestial dictator (God) created an imperfect young inexperienced uneducated curious naked primordial ape-human couple Adam and Eve. They were given life solely to worship him (Ray: "Apparently this Being likes to "git 'em young, treat 'em rough, tell 'em nuthin'."). But Adam and Eve's curiosity angered him, and so he vindictively decided to punish them and ALL of their offspring, all of mankind into perpetuity … until the end of the Earth! *_So poor Adam and Eve (and us, today!) were in actuality, victims(!!) of this psychotic 'all loving' Being._* But as academic evolutionary biologist, Jerry A. Coyne, demonstrates, *science shows Adam and Eve never existed as a primordial couple.* Please see, “Faith versus Fact: Why Religion and Science Are Incompatible” (2015) by Jerry A. Coyne. 'Adam and Eve' is a tale too far out for any nutty comic book's storyline. But it is the basis and modus operandi across Abrahamic religion: original sin, heritable guilt and unbridled fear and threat. Just add to these absurdities -- that *salvation is only brokered via the arrogant corrupt ecclesial class.* So so sad that this is the foundational concept of Abrahamic religion! Western society has been a victim of this toxic storytelling and gaslighting! Excerpt: *The Church is a business* selling an invisible product -- everlasting life in an invisible sky kingdom that is only available after death. *_Christianity business model:_* *Create the problem: original sin* *Create the product: salvation* *Create the solution: Jesus* *Create the advertisement: the Bible* *Create the carrot and the stick: heaven and hell* *Create the middlemen: the (corrupt) clergy who demand tithing, obedience, worship, and who extort the emotional energy of a lifetime under guilt and FEAR.* No need for a return refund counter because no one will over come back from the dead to complain that the product wasn't delivered upon! (Adapted from John D Espinoza, 'The Biblical God Does Not Exist,' 2013) I too am a former Catholic, now a happy non-theist, freed from the shackles of Abrahamic religion, who holds that science and technology (applied science) offer the most benefit and hope to mankind. Secular humanism, empathetic reciprocity, and respect for the ecosphere excite me and drive me, along with the beauty and awe of the cosmos and Nature. Hopefully, we can work together in peace and tolerance on this Earth (a tiny tiny speck in a 93 billion light-year wide universe!) and enjoy our lives, as for each of us, this is the *only life* we have. A most beautiful concept and realization: we are ALL brothers and sisters, ALL life on Earth is, as we are genetically related to each other on the evolutionary 'Tree of Life,' since life started on this planet emergently ("abiogenesis") 4.5 billion years ago! "There is life before death, not after death."

A Muslim here and I want to point out that it may look like muslims are more tolerant but in reality it is not Islam you left . People have a sense of ownership of those who were in their religion so some act out from a place of loss when you leave while people of the other faith do not have that sense of loss and may look more accommodating and may even be hoping you can see the beauty of theirs now that you have left your religion . Just saying . I have to admit I don’t have the answers to your questions but I’m open minded enough to accept that we can each ask very hard belief shaking questions and believe what we want .

@saultube44

3 жыл бұрын

You conveniently assume other people don't have a sense of loss, when they leave a "tribe"

@saultube44

3 жыл бұрын

@@sojourneroftheland No they don't, that's another belief from convenient ignorance: you're just like me but believing on the wrong thing; that's called projection

@saultube44

3 жыл бұрын

@@sojourneroftheland Projecting your feelings onto others

(I watched to the end of both vids. Really appreciate them!) I have a question about your table/legs analogy: have you found something to stabilize the table or replace the legs that were lost? I’ve had the same experience of ‘loosing some legs’ when seeking truth and realizing some of my assumptions have been wrong. It’s very destabilizing, as you mentioned, and I think people need answers to those basic questions (is there meaning, purpose, etc) in order to function and be healthy. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and personal journey with us.

@lauramc4fun

3 жыл бұрын

It is very unstable when your world view is flipped. I for one, found a way to make peace with the contradiction. I just learned to accept that I cannot understand. My faith is not that I am correct, or that I must adhere to certain rules (or that others need to do so), just that something else exists. If I follow 'rules' it's because I want to and not because I think only my way is correct. If I leave my interpretation more open, I'm less likely to be destabilized.

Hello Clay! I have watched your video to the end, and i also watched the 1st one where you talked about why you left Christianity. To be frank, I am thankful to you because I am going through the same kind of situation that you are going through. However, I didnt understand or view things the way you have explained them. I have always had all those questions that you higlighted and many others, but surely no convincing or satisfying answers i would get. I am happy that you have made me understand that I am not alone in what I am going through. Thank you for taking your time to share your views openly. I am glad i landed on your videos.

I agree the Bible cannot be accurate the focus on man alone and the disregard for women and children is astonishing! Watched to the end!

@gina1126

3 жыл бұрын

there are incredible stories of women in the Bible....

@infjnomad

3 жыл бұрын

@@gina1126 Nope!

@raycaster4398

3 жыл бұрын

@@gina1126 Like the story of Lot, then?! When God's death angels came to warn "good" Lot that he and his family should leave Sodom and Gomorrah because he was going to destroy both cities .... An unruly and threatening crowd wary of strangers came to Lot's house. Lot quickly offered his two young virgin daughters to the dangerous crowd to leave he and the angels alone. The angels struck the crowd blind. God the father then fire-stormed both cities incinerating ALIVE every innocent woman, child and infant, birdy, butterfly and guppy in psychotic anger. Lot's wife, curious, looked back and God turned her in to a pillar of salt. Yeah, great women in the Bible and how Bronze Age MEN treated them so horribly in ancient history and codified (in the Bible) that women were 2nd class humans, perhaps a bit above slaves and chattel. *Incredible indeed.*

Hi Clay! I'll start by saying I watched until the very end :) Before I begin with my response, I'd like to apologize on behalf of Christians/"Christians" who left you rude comments on your past video. I'm still amazed that people who claim to follow Christ (who did the opposite of bullying people for having questions) do that to others. Part of my response is this: I found all of your points valid. You're obviously a thinker and a truth-seeker. What you said is true about Christians trying to prove God and Christianity, only to come around to "you have to take it all on faith". We *do* try to have our cake and eat it too. But you know, the faith argument is true... I have found over the years that I literally cannot prove the existence of God or the validity of the Bible or Jesus' words to anyone; all I can do is tell people about Jesus and hope they are met with some supernatural/holy experiences like I was. Heck, there are apologists out there much more intelligent than me who encounter difficulty proving God's existence in debates. I liked your example about proving that you ate waffles to someone, months later. There are lots of things that happen to us that we could never prove to anyone, but this doesn't mean they did not happen. It seems that you really support this concept, which is cool. For me, I try to answer questions anyway just in case someone has misconceptions about Christianity. For instance, some people wont even lend an ear to a Christian because they think we believe the Earth is flat and vaccines cause autism. If I can correct those misunderstandings, maybe someone might be more willing to listen to the gospel message. To be honest, though, that's the only reason I still "argue". Most non-Christians and atheists don't want Christianity to be true (because they want whatever else they believe to be true instead), so they're a bit biased when they listen to Christians talk about their experiences. I'm not saying you are one of them, and honestly, you don't even put off those vibes. My point is, my reasons for choosing Jesus over Vishnu or Muhammad only seem to be important and relevant to me, so it's unlikely that my experience will convince anyone to convert. I say this as warning... you may not ever find someone with a response that you approve of. And that's okay! You need to be having your own experiences. These are the ones that will or wont convince you that Jesus is who he claims to be. I'm always confused and a bit sad when I hear stories like yours... it sounds like you genuinely sought God for all those years, and you never got your "carrot". I honestly don't get it! All I can say is, I am fairly convinced that those who seek knowledge and wisdom with a pure heart and an open mind eventually find what they are looking for. This got to be much longer than I planned, but I *have* to end with my question: It is a scientific concept that the universe tends toward a state of entropy, defined as "a lack if order or predictability, or a gradual decline to disorder". It makes sense... it is almost totally improbable that a tornado would sweep through a town and leave things more orderly than before it arrived. But my issue is this: why does it appear that the earth, its ecological systems, hierarchical structures, biological organisms and such (not to mention the universe) seems extremely orderly in lots of ways. Not to mention the complex design of the human brain, eye, heart, immunology system, etc... how do you see these things and not become convinced that a very intelligent being designed them and is responsible for keeping systems in order? This wouldn't prove that the Christian God is legitimate, I know, but I think it's a great argument for intelligent design by a higher being. Do you have any thoughts about this?

@Scit1998

2 жыл бұрын

The thing about entropy is that disorder in physical sence and in human sence are different. Another thing is that entropy always bigger than before only in isolated systems. Planet Earth isn't isolated, it gets a lot of energy from the sun every second. For details you better ask this question to actual physic. Sorry for very uninformative and late answer.

@abcxyz4653

2 жыл бұрын

Like you said, the complexity of nature proves nothing about Christianity, so why is that relevant? Let’s say I do believe in a god because of that argument or because of personal spiritual experiences. Who is that god? What does that god look like? How should I view that god? What is the nature of our relationship? What is that god capable of or incapable of? What does that mean for the reason behind our existence? Where did the god come from? Why did it create us? Why didn’t god give us answers? There is no way to know all of this with certainty (despite the billions of people on the planet with wildly different theories who think they’ve found it). Ultimately, even believing in god, even with spiritual experiences, I’m still left without answers, and it doesn’t lead me towards Christianity. Also, the notion that atheists don’t want Christianity to be true isn’t true. Seeing no evidence to believe in something ≠ not wanting that thing to be true.

We need more people like you. Thank you, honestly. I always enjoy (and find meaningful) the content you create and share.

I watched to the end. Wish I could talk to you. Very thought provoking and so much that resonates with me but I do wish I could ask you a few questions. I watched both videos and very glad I did! Are you still answering emails or are you sick of that at this point? Thank you!

Clay, i encourage you to watch the video "The Amazing Quran" - Gary Miller" . He is a non-Muslim Mathematician who explains why he thinks the Quran is very unique . He isn't advocating the Islamic faith but simply explains why he thinks that the Quran stands out as a scripture. I feel this video will address some of your concerns . BTW, i watched your video till the end :).

@selaluoposisisiapapunpresi7982

3 жыл бұрын

i prefer dr jefrey lang

A Christian won't argue with you. They don't feel they have to, or want to defend their faith. If that's what you want, you won't get it. If you want a friend that will speak about their experiences and love you, they'll give you that. 👑

@BB.halo_heir

3 жыл бұрын

@dds dds defend, not argue.

@B.S._Lewis

3 жыл бұрын

Look everyone here's a "true" Christian warning about the false ones.

My first thought on this was: are there any apologetic arguments that aren’t fallacious? One of the reasons I left christianity myself was because the apologetics were so unsatisfying. This was before I even learned about logic. Once I learned about fallacious arguments it all made sense. Apologetics IS sophistry.

@ClayArnall

Жыл бұрын

You might be right!

Thank you for sharing! Life feels best when you're honest. If you value the truth, say "I don't know" when you don't know something.

I agree so much with you, I'd like to kiss your on the forehead ahah !! I wish I could meet more people in everyday life that really think about things, that are trying to find the truth, not just what satisfies their beliefs

I have always found it very fascinating how we humans perceive things and experiences so differently. And at the end of the day, that's really what it's about. That's why there are so many different religions. That's why people perceive the same religion differently. The human mind truly is extremely complex. That's one of the reason I am not religious.

@yogasciencemusic

3 жыл бұрын

Who am I? Am I my body? Am I my memories? What am I?

Watching this was really refreshing. It was nice to see you go through all the thought processes and counter arguments. I was born Christian but when I was like 15 I started questioning my beliefs and I asked myself if I really believed in Christianity or if it was just a label I had because that was what I was born into. Eventually I figured I was never Christian because I never fully accepted it and it never felt "right" for me. I couldn't explain why but i knew it wasn't it. I never got into the research and the arguments and all the facts. It just didn't fit and I stopped identifying with it and now I don't feel like I'm living a lie. I just call myself agnostic. Also I'm INFJ. With you, you were actually super into it. Then you started questioning and you tried to make it make sense logically, which I think is a fresh perspective and is more justifiable than going off of "feeling". I don't argue with people on this much because I literally have nothing to tell them and I also never try to change people's minds because its a waste of time really. The whole time they are thinking about how to change your own mind instead of listening 😂 Although, some people get defensive by me just saying "i'm not religious" and its kind of funny because that's not even an argument 😭😭 and the whole "YOU THINK WE CAME FROM MONKEYS ?" ridiculous

@tracik1277

3 жыл бұрын

I do not enter into or start the argument with religious persons because I don’t know what use their experience is for them and it is not for me to say. What has often happened though is that the religious person wants to quiz me and never extends the same respect and humility.

Love these series. Would love to see regular videos about this