Decks I win against are fair, decks I lose against are unfair.

@jacopodeldeo4308

3 жыл бұрын

This is the most intelligent comment that i read down this video isn’t it strange?

@skarloey1214

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah Pretty Much.

@THE_BASED_GOD

2 жыл бұрын

The concept of "fair" or "unfair" in YGO doesn't exist anymore. In Magic, "unfair" decks are usually referred to as decks that play a strategy that aims to win without much interaction with your opponent, mostly combo decks. Also can be decks that aim to stop your opponent from doing much of anything meaningful, usually also without much interaction, usually prison type decks. Control decks also aim to stop your opponent from being able to successfully resolve spells but are VERY interactable in magic because of the resource system and the way counter spells/the stack work. "Fair" decks are ones that usually am to kill your opponent with swinging creatures or having a lot of interaction/counter play with your opponent. It only refers to the way your decks strategy is executed. Not to if a deck is actually "unfair/fair" in a balance sense. YGO lost all pretense to this in top tier decks because every deck that can make use of floodgates, will. Most top tier strategies will ALL play negates, slapped onto creatures most of the time. No resource system means players can go nuts and things are ALWAYS broken. Most of your ways to counter play are either ridiculous blowout cards (Evenly Matched, Anti-Spell Fragrance, Feather Duster, etc) or solo traps/spells/handtraps that at best are 1 for 1 trades in cards or youll do shit like ash a card effect which can even be PLAYED AROUND which means you are at such a card disadvantage for maybe a slightly worse board. It is so card to ever go plus on cards in YGO that any loss of card advantage feels 10x worse than in other card games. Having negates stamped onto creatures means that you can negate without a loss to card advantage. Insane how this became the norm. "Fair" decks in YGO arguably used to be decks that relied on beat sticks with little to no effects backed up by combat trick traps that couldn't special summon into huge extra deck boards. The problem is that this stopped being a thing so early on in the games life span, but a lot of older formats can be at a place where most decks felt evenly unfair. When was the last time this felt true?

@Lizardgreininja47449

11 ай бұрын

Phantom knights are fair

It’s tricky because the power creep is so wildly out of control that the only consistent winning strategy is to keep your opponent from being able to play the game.

@workdangit7

3 жыл бұрын

I completely agree with this comment. I stopped playing a long time ago because it became not fun for me. Call me old-fashioned but I prefer the old Yu-Gi-Oh.

@sammydray5919

3 жыл бұрын

Yugioh has always been that way. The ban list was literally made because the yata lock strat straight up prevented opponents from playing. Plenty cards get hit because they prevent the other guy from playing like floodgates or just ridiculous advantage engines that then uses that advantage to stop the opponent from playing. Its just that over the years the game has sped up to the point that the interruptions and negates have become too impactful and pretty much game winning immediately.

@TheDarcaneify

3 жыл бұрын

@@workdangit7 So you Like Spell Ruler Handcontrol Format, thats Oldschool YGO if i ever saw one... So much fun loosing my whole hand turn one and die turn 2 or 3.

@workdangit7

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheDarcaneify I built entire decks around my opponent never getting a real hit in on me. I then mixed monster kill card effects into it to clear their fields. Only then would I actually attack them. I loved it.

@molokodude

3 жыл бұрын

A great example of how intense powercreep now is comparing commons to former winners". Does it 1. Float its resources 2. Swarm. 3. Board recover. I just named basically in full what blackwings do.Comparing galaxy-eyes and blackwings seems fair. Both can go big, both have good generic support for their type and attirbute Until we get into another kernel of a problem. If its in a multi species type and attribute like gladiator beasts these old decent decks complete suffer. Gladitor beasts were honestly a slow grindy deck at its core unless someone ran synchro beasts with all the psychic deck. Like compare opening "the nuts" with gbeast WHEN IT WAS RELEVANT TOP TABLE. Open prisma, prisma effect. And you would have either had to have that test tiger to instantly go into gyzaryus. Hell even compare herk to armour master. One took a mandatory 3 monsters and had a cost to use its negate. Meanwhile armour master made the entire battle phase irrelevant for matchs vs it. Blackwings in a sense can still pull out matches and "oh ya guy actually beat me", if someone lost to gladiator beasts nowadays you know they hard bricked somehow. And that deck basically was mostly commons and a few lower grade holos. Gale, Sirocco as their cyber dragon, kalut, bora. Same with glads, but one of them took 8 cards to start goimg, meanwhile blackwings just, "i started whirlwind now my boards gonna be big and if you have no backrow even if you nuke me next turn i can likely reset just due to so much hand advantge"

I feel like alot of archetypes if kept within themselves are pretty fair but when you start mixing archetypes thats when it starts to become a more complicated question

@jessemccreem9607

3 жыл бұрын

I 100% agree with this

@TheItalianoAssassino

3 жыл бұрын

True, but the fun in deckbuilding lies in the mixing and matching of different kinds of cards/engines for me.

@cheapskateotaku7123

3 жыл бұрын

​@@TheItalianoAssassino Deck mixing and matching is fun and the real reason we play Yugioh, but at the same time if they restricted it and not make it too generic like example: dark type or dragon without name any name restricting to it, is where the game really breaks and kind of the reason for the power creep. Example: you can make generic support like 1 dark monster + 1 dragon to fusion it out, at the end of your turn it gets banish or maybe it only have a vanilla stats with no ability except if you use the right material, than you will be able to use it effect to destroy something or do something more. With that kind of restriction, the game still maintain fun for deck building and at the same time make theme deck fun and enjoyable and not power creep unfair where you only need to slap generic good and expensive cards and you will perform better than others is not deck build or anything the game original concept was marketed. Is just a person opinion, but I believe the issue is the inconsistency of balance that is clearly pretty much predictable is that konami is doing it for revenue and not the game life spend and that is why the game has so many soft reboot over the season just for there own interest and not there's and the customer like us that should share be fairly given when we invest in there product.

@travishotsauce3271

3 жыл бұрын

Lavaval chain in the Laval deck is okay. In any other meta deck unfair.

@travishotsauce3271

3 жыл бұрын

And I agree

I dont mind control decks as much as I mind decks that stop you from playing. A player at my locals usually ends on a 3 omni negate bord and rips 2-3 cards out of my hand so im stuck trying to break their board with 3 cards through 3-5 interruptions which is mostly impossible

@atrayupickering2351

3 жыл бұрын

Is it mermails? Sounds like mermails

Harpies are actually a great example for this video because they are not really good in the TCG but in Duel Links they're having insane conversion rates atm. It's all relative

@RafaelEsparragoza

3 жыл бұрын

Harpies I think they're quite fair imo. Their cards are very easy to counter, and the struggle they have is the deck has no special summon cards unless you first normal summon(except vanilla + dai), but the new pet dragon seems fair. Also a lot of their cards are end phase effects to setup for next turn, and sometimes you don't have a next turn haha. They would be broken if their effects could be used during the main phase, example hysteric sign, that card would be broken if both effects could be used during main phase, even the end phase effect could be broken if able to being used the same turn haha

@eleonarcrimson858

3 жыл бұрын

nah even in duel link they are a very fair deck. we had metas that are so disgusting compared to them. Before be and dl were hit that deck was not in the meta even.

@Gnurrgard

3 жыл бұрын

@@eleonarcrimson858 which supports my point that the definition of fair is relative.

@acehole1990

3 жыл бұрын

Harpie tri-brigade let’s gooooo

@nikoleunig7932

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah Even post ban list lunalight w/ Sabre can shut down harpies unless they have utopia ray

If both players can have fun in the duel, it's fair.

@troy242621

3 жыл бұрын

You both have fun when both decks get to play. Big, generic boss monsters with negates need to gtfo.

@jorieboy11

3 жыл бұрын

Underrated comment

@HyperGirl81

3 жыл бұрын

@@troy242621 I agree though I have to duel anyone yet since the Negate anything meta is in effect. The last time I played was in a local tournament when Invasion of Chaos was causing trouble. Still duels went on for more than a turn which makes me nostalgic and I can't remember the last time people set monsters in defense mode.

@luxray4911

3 жыл бұрын

Here's the thing though... I feel even meta matchups can be fun. The word "fun" is really subjective and it changes from person to person

@troy242621

3 жыл бұрын

@@luxray4911 It isn't subjective that you like YOUR deck's playstyle that YOU built. Constantly being told "Nope I negate that, that and that, your deck can't function now," is objectively not fun for you.

Unfair to me is strategies that avoid interactivity like FTK strategies

@emperorhadrian6011

3 жыл бұрын

Unfun*

@SentientSandbox

3 жыл бұрын

Build a better deck?

@theblasblas

3 жыл бұрын

@@SentientSandbox That's the thing, if it's an FTK strategy it doesn't matter what deck you build. The best you could do is load your deck with hand traps.

@SentientSandbox

3 жыл бұрын

@@theblasblas yep, that’s how you build a better deck. If you can prevent the OTK, generally the rest of your opponents strategies will be easier to deal with. Most OTK decks struggle if they can’t win in the first few turns.

@TheKinfing

3 жыл бұрын

@@SentientSandbox So what if your deck cant afford to run more handtraps? or if you dont draw any despite running a healthy amount?

For me fairness comes in three parts: -Consistency: How many cards do they need to start? How ease can they search their starters? How many cards are absolute garnets? -Resilience: How many hand traps and disruption do you need to throw at them to full stop them? Can they play through almost all handtraps? Are their boards easy to break? Can they comeback from a broken board? -Ceiling: How powerful is theirbest endboard? How oppressive is the weakest endboard? Examples: -If the decks have averages at best on everything, but their resilience is below average they are fair. -If the are strong on everything but resilience, then they are a little less fair. -If they are average in everything, but very resilient, they are a bit unfair. It's all about asking yourselves those questions for me.

@molokodude

3 жыл бұрын

Huge nail on head. I did a long post about it and all over reddit before but a great example is how much it took for gladiator beasts to have to "play and be winning" to advance vs "blackwhirlwind, you have a monster Sirocco, whirlwind, special shura, whirlwind, bora special, whirlwhind, gale, gale special, whirlwind cause theres stuff smaller than him, maybe get vayu , gale eff, synchro for "battle phase is no longer relevant to you on your turn armor master". And thats just playing off 2 cards that happened to start in your hand. Even if you went first thats still the entire chain i listed.

Minor thing Noctovision was played by the guy who uses rokket in the anime

@king_acceler8755

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah Varis used a lot of generic dragon cards alongside the Rokkets. Like Absorouter which is a Rokket card in all but name.

To quote Squidward: “Why is it whenever I have fun it’s bad?”

@chrismcdonald6079

3 жыл бұрын

Me, an avid blue eyes player just wanting to summon dark matter dragon

@deafsquid6978

3 жыл бұрын

Yes

As a Harpie player I feel attacked directly. I mean he didn’t mention Feather Storm at all!

@darkworld0167

3 жыл бұрын

oh i agree, the card is busted

@kyubimusic1582

3 жыл бұрын

Right? Most unfair card that brings me so much happiness

@flashingstriker1012

3 жыл бұрын

that with there extra is pretty busted I'd say

@alexanderbatterbee8369

3 жыл бұрын

I hate that card

I use the Magic definition: if it seeks to play a game built on exchanging resources evenly with its opponent, or commit resources to the board hoping to catch them off balance, it's fair. If it turns 1 card in hand into a board that locks me out of the ability to reasonably execute anything, unless I have a very narrow, specific out, it's probably unfair

I think you pose a very interesting question, Paul. Generally decks that are very prone to interruption, like HERO, or decks that give your opponent resources, such as Ogdoadics, are "fair" decks in my eyes, since they offer the opponent lots of counter-play and gives them a chance of winning the game if they play optimally.

@TheQuilava96

3 жыл бұрын

That’s how I feel about my Atlantean deck. Yeah, I can theoretically OTK, but it’s so weak to effects that I’m not getting anywhere near that luck.

@Sid_Obion

3 жыл бұрын

I mostly agree,I just think that archetypes with a singular strength and a fair counter are fair as well,for example I play sharks and they have lots of monster effects and destruction but struggle with lots of spell and traps or if they start getting banished,so to me those kind of decks are fair as well

GRAVITY BIND CLOWN CONTROL lol I'm old.

@frankaxe6700

3 жыл бұрын

You make me sick and also smile for you evilness

@brycebeagle3647

3 жыл бұрын

It was my first functional deck I ever played

@christianmennitt2399

3 жыл бұрын

Two thumbs up for clown control.

@JJSquirtle

3 жыл бұрын

I lost so many games to this with only one mst in my old school deck

@kyubimusic1582

3 жыл бұрын

This made my day lol

Both players can have ‘fun’ and they allow some kind of interaction and back and forth between you and your opponent when playing imo is a fair deck.

@ninezerotwo1778

3 жыл бұрын

Like 'old school' yugioh where we had chances to draw our monsters, battle, using our traps to counter moves and be meticulous. Like how a strategy game is supposed to be. But now it is unload everything on 1 turn with negates, otk, or set your whole hand of backrow because you might lose to a combo deck if their hand is good so don't try to play around lightning storm. Forget 'old school' yugioh, more like 'brain dead' yugioh now.

The real answer is people are nostalgic for a time period in yugioh that never actually existed in any competitive capacity. People are talking in the comments about “oh games are over in one or two turns, you don’t even get to play the game half the time” etc. But then you watch the progression series with decks from well over ten years ago and the games are over in one or two turns anyways and they aren’t even playing the most optimized decks of the time because they’re missing all the side sets and promos and stuff like that. People are nostalgic for playground style yugioh, but that has never been what “real” yugioh is at a competitive level. And you can still play playground style yugioh. Just play with your friends and make your own limitations or whatever. Konami isn’t going to bust down your door and arrest you for not using the ban list or whatever.

@emperorhadrian6011

3 жыл бұрын

T...

@SketchingHands

3 жыл бұрын

The progression series doesn’t follow the banlists as the packs came out. So it’s not a representative of any old meta.

@KikiCatMeow

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah just play however you want, if you’re having fun then who cares. It’s only an issue when you demand that everyone else and the game has to conform to your specific niche of playing

@emperorhadrian6011

3 жыл бұрын

@@KikiCatMeow Only problem is any event with more than two people will always have someone with a meta combo or control deck.

@KikiCatMeow

3 жыл бұрын

@@emperorhadrian6011 well yeah, but if you’re playing casually (which most people who play like this are), you probably aren’t going to a lot of events

Structure decks are "fair decks" They should do tournaments only for them

@AstralLaVista

3 жыл бұрын

Erm 3 salamangreat structure decks aren't fair in a sealed format

@baranucer8233

3 жыл бұрын

Have u read misc??

"Beat my bullshit" the game

@JuwanBuchanan

3 жыл бұрын

That's basically how Yugioh always have been, even in the original anime.

“phantom knights! That’s a deck.” Me: Yes, I would assume it is

@bcalhoun223

3 жыл бұрын

Phantom knights are dope

All great points! I think dzeefs video from a few years ago, "fair yugioh decks dont win," covers this topic exceptionally well. Really changed the way i look at more casual decks

@troy242621

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, unfortunately when the option of winning before your opponent can react is allowed in any given game, it tends to be the best strategy unless it has a universally accessible counter.

@harrisplofsky171

3 жыл бұрын

@@troy242621 only if it’s consistent

@troy242621

3 жыл бұрын

@@harrisplofsky171 Problem is that if you combine enough damage for an OTK with negates the other player is obliged to negate as well, unilaterally disarming just means you don't get to play. It's why most fair decks just get smacked.

In my opinion, trying out "unfair" decks and understanding its strength and weaknesses helps with judging fairness. I also do believe it depends on the match up. Certain archtypes definitely get better/ frequent legacy support than others which affects fairness occasionally.

Allowing both players to actually play as well as it lasting longer than 1-3 turns is a good start.

@AstralLaVista

3 жыл бұрын

3 turns?! Mate you'd have to ban a lot of cards for that to begin to happen more often

@emperorhadrian6011

3 жыл бұрын

Pretty standard comment, but, I have far too many questions after seeing your profile picture.

@hockeycrafter6086

3 жыл бұрын

Why though? There is far more interaction per turn than yugioh ever had before, hell you have TONS of options to interact TURN 1

@fosphor8920

3 жыл бұрын

This might be why I prefer MTG over Yugioh... Who wants to sit down and play a card game that lasts around max 5 mins? Where you summon your best monster in turn 1? Where you turn 1 one shot your opponent in 25 % of the games you play? Not me.

@emperorhadrian6011

3 жыл бұрын

@@fosphor8920 You haven't played against garruk teferi unleashed turbo if you think that is exclusive to yugioh.

My definition of fair: when two decks have more points of possible interaction with your opponent. There are many fair decks that have "unfair" cards (looking at you mystic mine)

@thomaskey9688

3 жыл бұрын

By that logic eldlich is the most fair deck ever made

@JJSquirtle

3 жыл бұрын

@@thomaskey9688 nah chain burn lmfao. Chain 7? Thx fam

Fair Yu-Gi-Oh deck is salads. They are the deck to look at for being fair. They don't do much other than be constant and recurring.

@chrismcdonald6079

3 жыл бұрын

I think they should loosen up on salad now, it’s had some power creep so stallio or gazelle can be loosened now

@pamoon_

3 жыл бұрын

relatively fair yes but then the recurring ash/rage/roar might not be to be fair i want stallio back and gazelle at 3

@chrismcdonald6079

3 жыл бұрын

@@pamoon_ stallio is a reasonably safe peel off for now

@gentarafi7005

3 жыл бұрын

Same as for the utopia double argument, salads could summon an accesscode that could attack twice

@matthewanderson7852

3 жыл бұрын

You could make the argument that sky striker was fair too with that argument. Even burning abyss with that argument. That’s part of why those decks are “unfair” they are to consistent and to recursive.

Things feel unfair because you built the deck because you enjoy its playstyle and your opp. "No. You can't do that." That isn't so subjective; you can't do what you find fun now. Interaction beyond omninegates are needed, and shouldn't be NEEDED due to build-a-board decks.

@Sid_Obion

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly,imo the game should always be outplay your opponent not keep them from playing at all

@troy242621

3 жыл бұрын

@@Sid_Obion Yeah some games rn it feels like a competition of whose deck gets to function at all, rather than an actual competition between the decks' playstyles.

@Sid_Obion

3 жыл бұрын

@@troy242621 Well put

I think fair decks are ones that really focus on their own strategy rather than just preventing the opponent from doing absolutely anything... And any deck that plays Verte and Dragoon combo is unfair.

@bloodarcher7841

3 жыл бұрын

My issue with dragoon is by itself it does way too much.. but if it was only playable in dark magician or red eyes.. it’s easier to manage.. but combo boards make multiple negates or floodgates.. then use any two monsters for that snake and get a free boss monster... on top of the other shit? That’s when it’s just unfair and bs

@KuroJet

3 жыл бұрын

The problem with that last statement is that almost ALL decks can play that stupid ass combo. Verte's materials are too generic; two effects monsters is literally two monsters because no one actually plays Vanillas. And running 3 bricks that you probably wont even see is child's play.

@Eclipz-wi9oe

3 жыл бұрын

@@KuroJet Exactly, like if Verte wasn't around then Dragoon wouldn't be a hugeee deal but literally any deck can use it. But Verte is in good in fusion decks if his material cost was different, like costed a fusion monster or something, and that you couldn't use Red-Eyes B Fusion with it.

@kaleonpi

3 жыл бұрын

@@Eclipz-wi9oe As someone that like the red-eyes deck I don't like Dragoon because help more other decks than red-eyes (yes I know that this sound a little crazy, and I admit that I may not be objective with it). The best way to use dragoon is to get the best field possible and then summon verte etc. That is not easy for Red-Eyes (doesn't have many ways to spam). Is true that they can get to the fusion more consistently, but the monster doesn't do anything for the strategy (others like Black comet dragon send a red-eyes to the graveyard and can revive it when he is destroyed, dragoon is just a big and strong monster in this deck and in any one else). I think that Konami only make it Red-Eyes so it can be used with that fusion (I don't like that card so maybe I am not objective with it XD)

@number-qx1kw

3 жыл бұрын

Sooooooo a war rock deck that plays the dragoon package is unfair ?

I think is all the generic stuff in the game that causes you problems, example all the generic engines that are literally in every deck

War Rocks have entered the chat.....

Totally agree with on this and this also goes into my pet peave of more casual duelist always say: I hate hand traps ! Same person: I hate when my opponent goes first and sets up a crazy board and I lose. Hand traps exist to help u when going second to help slow them down going first !

@Wasertaser

3 жыл бұрын

The game they created

@DarkSymphony777

3 жыл бұрын

i don't mind hand traps, hell i don't even mind dragoon. the only rules i have for whenever i play edo is "no meta" which would get boring seeing the same decks over and over again it would get boring and no golden castle because i play tag duels and golden castle is a really unfun card in tag duels

@israeldelarosa5461

3 жыл бұрын

I just want to play my X-Saber deck, or my T.G deck, or my Galaxy-Eyes or Gimmick Puppet deck and not get negated and have my entire turn ended because of 1 Ash Blossom and lose then and there. A lot of these Handtraps just singlehandedly KILL a lot of older fan-favorite decks.

@haruhirogrimgar6047

3 жыл бұрын

@@israeldelarosa5461 Photon/Galaxy should be able to play through 1 Ash easily though.

@jacobguy3343

3 жыл бұрын

@@israeldelarosa5461 I play lots of old decks also I dont play meta at all I play red eyes,blue eyes, synchrons,and heros but I do see the value in them because without the hand traps even in casual play going second is so much harder for example my blue eyes deck will put up 2 to 3 disruptions going first but if my opponent just has a veiler it may limit me to just one same with my charmers I need hand traps to keep pace even with other fun decks

My Dark Magician deck is unfair because when eternal soul leaves the field it destroys all my monsters. Unfair to me. Hmp!

@Johnnyluvschu

3 жыл бұрын

How do you out the Waking the Dragon decks though? 😂

@Spanluver

3 жыл бұрын

Lmao it’s called a Cost and it’s fair because it makes you think about your choices…like an adukt

@romkin1197

3 жыл бұрын

Mana Dragon Zirnitron: Am I a joke to you?

@Ahloveyafuhso

3 жыл бұрын

Dark magician the dragon knight exists for a reason.

People don’t like decks or cards that stop you playing... yet play decks and cards that stop their opponents playing. “It’s fair when I do it not when my opponent does”

I'm surprised you didn't list Unchained as a Fair deck. they can do a lot without putting up multiple negate boards. I think Fair decks are one that are able to interact in the opponents turn that are not just negates, like Rikka they can put up a conditional negate with Hyperyton but their main source of interuption is generally Teardrop and their trap cards.

Another great video as always, would you consider making a video about collateral damage on banlists? For example, abc and metalfoes lost carrier and electrumite respectively, through no fault of their own, and there are a number of cards currently on the list belonging to archetypes in which they are fine (speedroid terratop is one example), but where hit due to abuse in other decks. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the topic.

@victorsandeen2694

3 жыл бұрын

They should make a special list that prevents certain cards from being abused in other decks.

@NickWuebker

3 жыл бұрын

Lunalight Tiger is another example, I think?

That's why the boss monsters must be non generic and archetype trap cards must be better than generic ones

I think Fair in card games is a lot about managing power, efficiency, efficacy, and opportunity between different builds. A deck that has higher stats, spends less and gains more, are able to use their effects effectively, and allow the player to have many options while restraining the opponent's options is an easy way to describe Unfair.

my takeaway from every one of your videos: Yu-gi-oh is a fun game that's broken beyond repair and we just need to find our own ways to have fun with it (or leave, which is also fine)

@thatman666

3 жыл бұрын

I'm already aware card games just embrace powercreep and/or suffer bad marketing that may put out of business.

@JJSquirtle

3 жыл бұрын

@Nimay Kumar why they unbanned duo is a mystery...

@TheDarcaneify

3 жыл бұрын

@@YLBYLB Maybe im to Blackwing to understand the Apeal of Goat Format, its so Slow and not very fun, interaktiv, Yes. But... i like Swarming the Field with a Sirocco and 2 Boras turn 2 Kalut Damage Step my Enemy to deat too much to think Goat is a good format.

I like these vids of yours because i learn deck types ive never heard of and its cool to hear an open opinion of all decks

To me, an unfair deck is a deck that does at least one thing unique well in a way that warps the match around them. A fair deck is a deck that doesn’t really do anything specific and unfair. And I don’t think this is a bad thing- decks are unfair to allow for self-expression and a varied format, and a format with only fair decks is not really possible. No matter how much you imagine taking away or adding to the game, there will always be strategies that can do something uniquely well because it’s all relative to the game around them!

Burning Abyss is still doing well, just wanna point that out :P.

My friends and I did a throwback tournament which was a blast. April 2014 banlist and could use cards up till PRIO

*Playing magical musketeers* Full combo: Normal Caspar.....pass Maybe activate upstart or so to search with Caspar.

I think it depends on the competition. At my locals monday is "casual day" but we still value decks being decent so they need to be able to play through 1 negate to be decent but not set up more than 2 interruptions going first. But meta relatively is "balanced" since they are decks specifically meant to be around the same power-level. There are overbearing meta cards but we just have to deal with them until the banlist comes.

The most fun I had playing yugioh, was during middle school-early high school. Pretty much every kid started to dig up their old cards and make something serviceable. We played by the correct rules for the most part (a few exceptions with specific cards we didn't know the ruling for). We played traditional for noobs basically banned cards were fine but no one had yata or chaos emperor dragon so it never felt bad. I ran Horus LV 8 jinzo and mystic swordsmen as my control combo with a bunch of staple traps and spells. It was slow but it felt much more like an interactive game. No 15 minute solitaire hands. One kid had a dark control deck based on Caius and giant germ. Shit was hilariously effective. There was a kid running a pure water deck with legendary ocean and that big sea serpent starter deck boss monster and a kid running harpies. An exodia, grave keepers, pseudo plant synchro and even a lightsworn deck. Everyone was always trading too because they pretty much stuck to a specific theme and just tried to optimize it. We had a couple of generous kids who would hand out staple commons (Pot of Greed, Change of Heart, Monster Reborn etc.) to keep things balanced. The OP spells and traps kind of leveled the plaing field, yugioh was more fun when I was stuck using sub-optimal cards.

To me something that could be considered fair is something like War Rock. A deck that can get high ATK and still be consistent with searching, without making your opponent think that once you set up your board they have to jump through five different hoops just to get to play.

In my opinion, I'd like to have a "fair" tournament would be like a budget deck tournament because then nearly all the cards are available because then you don't go against like a Droplets. Not perfect but something I'd be in to

@LPSimbel

3 жыл бұрын

The fairest would be just allowing players to have access to cards like that without selling their kidneys 😭

@candycorn123ful

3 жыл бұрын

@@LPSimbel oh hell yeah

Mystic mine is of the most unfair yugioh cards ever made

@Harmonic14

3 жыл бұрын

It's actually one of the most fair cards I've seen in a long time. Very, very annoying, but fair.

@fn2025

3 жыл бұрын

@@Harmonic14 what are you smoking sir

@bloodarcher7841

3 жыл бұрын

@@fn2025 the card is fair.. just play backrow destruction! As long as combo exists to shut your opponent out.. mystic mine can stay at three. Fight me.

@fn2025

3 жыл бұрын

@@bloodarcher7841 why complain about vfd lets all play droplets in the main and bring him back to 3 right Same old arguments that are not arguments think a little bit about that

@MegaGEEK2o

3 жыл бұрын

It should be limited to one copy.

I feel like a deck would be fair when breaking it's boards takes an equal amount of effort as it took to set up and vice versa. On the topic of fair decks, i'd argue the majority of decks and strategies out there are fair, it's just that those won't show up on the tier lists. People will play the strongest Decks in tournaments, and the strongest decks are the unfair ones. It's always been like that, and it always will be. The topping decks were unfair when we were kids, most of us just never knew that side of the game, because we'd only play casually with friends or at locals.

Unfair decks tend to be decks that play outside the rule given ramifications of the game. For example a card that stops all monster effects for the turn or makes all cards unaffected by card effects or limits the amount of times you can perform certain actions. There are alot of decks that dont do anything "unfair" but can still be powerful.

@MrBagboy007

3 жыл бұрын

I agree 💯

@jacopodeldeo4308

3 жыл бұрын

Literally every archetype has a rule bending gimmick Abc,metaphis,shaddol, dangers, crystrons , “C”s,magical musket, tri-brigade. I forgot about salamangreat

@kaleonpi

3 жыл бұрын

Mmmm yes buy there are cards that limit the opponent like summon limit but I don't see it unfair (both opponent receive the effect)

I don’t think the issue is decks are unfair, I think the introduction of generic links and decks/archetypes/series getting more and more generic support or in deck support or becoming so splashable, it’s the toolbox that’s gotten too big and too abusable with certain engines and such, and then balancing issues with banlists have made certain decks insane

Pure archetype vs pure archetype seems to be pretty balanced in my experience

@benjilenett2851

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed. It’s when these crazy five-six card engines are stuck into most decks that they become insane, a la Dragoon

@eniferxamm

3 жыл бұрын

@@benjilenett2851 I mean, historically not the case. Spyral, Zoo, Striker, Inzektor, DRuler, Nekroz, etc. all saw top tier 1 play with builds that were primarily in-engine cards. Just because often times engines create more powerful decks than their pure variants doesn’t mean the base deck is somehow “fair”. The engines exist to supplement an already powerful strategy!

@Sid_Obion

3 жыл бұрын

@@eniferxamm yes,and that's the issue is decks can be powerful and fair,they're allowed to be both.But as soon as people find a strong engine they splash into whatever they can to try for "unbreakable" boards. Examples being dragoon,eldilitch,and invoked that are splashed in so many decks. As soon as Ogdoadic came out people were talking about putting alleister in the deck

@eniferxamm

3 жыл бұрын

@@Sid_Obion Those decks aren’t fair, though. Being unfair is having an extremely potent and unique way to interact with the game. Inzektors had unreal ability to break boards, Striker could generate insane long term card advantage, and spyral set up ultra powerful boards through its internal engine. Having generic engine pieces can push these decks to be stronger, sure, but they’re already “unfair”.

@Sid_Obion

3 жыл бұрын

@@eniferxamm Fair enough to some of those,I agree on spyrals,but they received bans,I never played against inzektors so I'll take your word,but sky strikers I disagree I've beat them with my pure shark deck

I think it's based on how quickly, consistently, and safely put out a situation where the opponent might as well scoop, or alternatively if the deck has simply too much recursion to stop. Like full power Spellbook is probably a good example of an unfair deck since on turn 1 it can pop out with a whole toolbox of spells, high ATK monsters, possible Jowgen, and if you even start to make a push it had removal that could be added right back to hand next turn. A more modern standard might be how much of the deck you can reasonably have with minimal space. Synchron can make an insane turn 1 board with consistency, but the issue it has is the deck can have trouble fitting in strong staples. I don't think Konami has recently printed many archetypes that are broken without outside support, even if the outside support is just staples like hand traps, but more often the top decks can run hand traps along with outside stuff. Nerfing Infernoble, Drytron, and Virtual World all involved cards that aren't even part of their archetypes being hit. So when a deck can run its core strategy along with staples while having lots of free space to experiment it starts to risk being unfair. I think this is why Konami seems to want to force players to play more parts of recent archetypes, like Doremi requiring different names, Suship and Magikey centering on their normal monster, etc. Now those are currently just casual strategies but they could be how Konami wants to push the game.

I run a few decks here and there and I guess the most fair deck I have is the Atlantean deck. It isn’t unbeatable and I can have a slow moving hand since it relies on getting at minimum 3 specific monsters to start running. So I can either get going first turn or second turn, but another weakness of the deck is the lack of negates, so I’m pretty wide open to effects.

wonder how deck builder rotation battles would be, have a decent pool of cards you're allowed to add into the decks from outside to help the deck along but not let it get out of hand like the adamancipator or the elderlich -_-

I've been getting into Magic The Gathering recently and basically the main problem with YU-GI-OH is one turn full board combos and total negates. People prefer Magic due to the mana/land system it builds in a pacing mechanic that doesn't allow "unfair play" that locks other players out

@Sid_Obion

3 жыл бұрын

I agree with that a lot,specifically total negates

recently I’ve been playing ogdoadic/invoked its really fun and in my opinion still fair but I can put up quite a bit of negates so I can see how some might think it’s not fun to play against

To increase your chances of winning, it is logical to create unfair scenarios more consistently. Those situations help create adversity. It helps push Duelists to evolve and thus the game evolves.

@Wasertaser

3 жыл бұрын

Power creep

Is Monarch or Security Force fair or unfair? Both has no negates only interruptions.

Fun decks or fair decks means it has to be fun and interactive for both players. Allowing back and fourth gameplay at similar level. Nobody enjoys playing against decks that say "You can't play" unless you're a masochist. Disruption is kept to a minimum. Its just common sense to not use things like barrier statues either even though they aren't meta. Just ask yourself "Will this stop my opponent from playing?" If yes then don't play it.

A fair deck is a deck that isn't unbeatable and allows interactions between both players

@EizaYgo

3 жыл бұрын

No deck is unbeatable

@frankaxe6700

3 жыл бұрын

When they brick

@EizaYgo

3 жыл бұрын

@@frankaxe6700 bruh Go second cards, ht are strong enought to break any board No deck is unbeatable

@Reluxthelegend

3 жыл бұрын

Not even full power dragon rules at their peak format was unbeatable, and it didn't lock people out of the game, so by you definition it was fair then?

@nidhoog

3 жыл бұрын

@@Reluxthelegend yep if you can beat it then its fair

This is an interesting question, mainly because I always try to look at it from the other side. I try to make underrated decks competitive, and the starting point is always ‘what does this deck do that can be construed as ‘unfair?’ and I go from there. Unfair is how you make something competitive that wouldn’t normally be competitive. But looking at it from the point of “how can I make this fair?” is a really hard question. Someone in a different comment said that fair is when your opponent is given multiple times to interact with you to stop a play, and I think that’s probably the best answer. If your opponent can stop you with a well placed handtrap, I would say the deck is fair.

@madbart214yomother7

3 жыл бұрын

I agree with this. When your opponent gets to interact or maybe have more than 1 turn, that's fair. It's Konami that makes the game unfair because they have no kind of quality control over the game. They make cards that are op for any deck to use and deal with it a year later because they want to make sales because of that card. Make Dragoon pass, I'm looking at you....

If you were to take away multiple negate boards and locks any deck would be fair

While I am a casual player now. (The last time I played competitively was during Spellbook format) I feel like Yu-Gi-Oh needs a Resource management system similar to Magic or Force of Will. There needs to be a way to control the speed of the game because otherwise it becomes a rat race to see what archetype in the TCG/OCG can Play a single card which Combos into a 20 minute summoning chain that ends with the turn player having a 7 card hard, 4 cards face down and 4 boss monsters that all have once per turn negation effects built in.

I'd say the only time a deck could be considered unfair is when there's a really good prize card that not everybody has access to. A few years ago we had people complaining about that Utopia card, but it wasn't winning everything. The SJ Crush Card Virus, is probably the closest the games ever gotten to an unfair strategy imo.

@molokodude

3 жыл бұрын

Dark End dragon was Shonen jump pretty sure off the top of my head. Oh. And cytber-stein

i love when a floodgate deck locks uo meta... dosnt happen to oftern but when it dose its satasfying

So I feel the term “unfair” Is a general statement for certain categories that a deck or archetype may offer. Decks that check the most unfair categories are the most competitive, because they do the most unfair things. Like 1 card starters. Rokkets have those. madolche also has those. But rokkets have cards that check more boxes than madolche do and madolche have an amount of fair boxes checked as well (like locking you into an archetype, having only 1 negate generated through engine) that make it less appealing for competitive play. Although as I stated, madolche has unfair qualities- like 1 card starters, swarm capability, tiara and more which is probably why your locals banned them. Take it as a compliment😁

I would say a deck that takes at minimum 3 turns to win and doesn't prevent your opponent from playing 1/3 of their cards is fair. This way both players have at least 2 turns to play the game and they can play their combos(for the most part). I also think fair in a tournament setting is relative. I believe 2 deck have to be similar in power and have counters for each other, to be fair

Are there fan made “tier lists” in the same vein as Smogon Competitive Pokémon (video game)? It could essentially work as a second ban list, so you could play a game that bans certain cards that are normally legal. It would make certain strategies that are not viable at normal play viable, even broken, with certain cards removed. It would probably have to be a long ban list, as long as the typical ban list or longer. And of course there would have to be some consistency in format, such as my example of Smogon that has a counsel that reviews what is and isn’t banned for each tier

Fun deck is a bit hard to put into words. I think it's 2 deck if played against each other will make both duelists don't have any hard feelings afterwards. It can also be a self-made decisions in deck building process where not insert cards that would make the builder himself to feel bad if he/she played against it.

I have more experience with MTG but if you are playing a completely fair deck and your opponent isn't, that's not fun, because you had no chance to do anything like that, however if both of you are playing unfair decks and your opponent wins you can appreciate the skill of their strategy, because you could have won with your own unfair strategy. The problem is that when you are new to games like these the first decks you build tend to be pretty fair, that's where the frustration happens, so you have to push through that curve and get to the other side where you can enjoy the game again

I only have 2 friend who play YGO irl, so fair is what everyone deems fun to play against. That's why we might agree to play certain banned cards in fun decks vs better decks (for example, a turn 3 Calamities is less of a Problem than 2 turn 1 Calamities)

Are all combo decks unfair? I like deskbots and for example if uninterrupted it can make 2 negates, 2 interruptions and potentially a full hand loop. But if you ash my main starter( 003 or machine dupe) it's turn is dead right there. Doesn't seem not fair to me, but idk.

@piggyman1017

3 жыл бұрын

“Bro just draw ash” does not make your deck fair.

@bloodarcher7841

3 жыл бұрын

If your combo deck can play through 1-2 hand traps and even sometimes 3 and still keep going? It’s unfair! If it dies to one handtrap.. the deck has been power crept and is now considered fair.

@KuroJet

3 жыл бұрын

@@piggyman1017 I mean, every deck plays Ash now, so...

@romkin1197

3 жыл бұрын

@@KuroJet Its more of the fact that, just because you run the card, doesn't mean you'll see it consistently. Me personally though, I looked at my RNG, and it says DON'T PLAY HAND TRAPS...because that's all I ever draw and end up bricking cause of it.

@KuroJet

3 жыл бұрын

@@romkin1197 I know that feeling too.

Fair Yu-gi-oh Decks are non-competitive decks.

I think, as Konami never tried to design decks to play each other, but just to get progressively faster and more consistent with themselves, not even THEM can pinpoint what a fair deck is. Magic for example, can, and have done this a lot. They avoid certain effects because they are detrimental to a game flow they have established by design, and Standard is what they consider this design's result. An "unfair" deck would be something that is absolutely out of this playing field, like a Vintage deck. So yeah, I think the best answer I can get for yu-gi-oh is "the fair decks are the ones that resonate better with the current designs of the game". Which are a fuckton, ironically and doesn't answer the question.

I think this should be measured in some way by numbers per turn. Number of searches, summons, and interruptions you can end on.

When most people think about fair I think the things that come up most is how many disruptions a deck puts out and how much interaction there is. Any deck with a floodgate is automatically deemed unfair because there's absolutely no interaction. And any deck with more than 2 disruptions is also automatically unfair because most non meta decks might not be able to play through 3 disruptions. The questions you ask if a deck is fair or not are. How beatable is the deck? Can it otk? Do I have to play a specific card so I don't lose to it? Aka a non staple/hand trap. Also how beatable a deck is refers to the turn 1 board it puts up and how easy/hard the board it is to break

I main and play Frogs and i love playing 60 card paleofrogs but i know it frustrates many opponents due to its control and recuring resources

i think a fun deck is a deck that something that brings back the interactions from long ago where its not 17 billion negate boards but something your opponent can play against. take danger dark world. i think the deck is fun to play since neither player can control the cards sent to the grave by the effect of a danger monster and there arent many "unfair" effects with just those two archtypes. poping a monster, s/t or a face up for face down card etc. it only looks unfair if you use draglubion and go for the numeron dragon OTK. another fun deck is lightsworns since you kinda need to be lucky to be able to do anything with your mills. maybe you'll end up with a pretty cool and interactive board, sometimes youll end up in the middle. maybe your mills are garbage and you cant really do anything but then get the good mills during the ep. My point is, archetypes are (imo) mostly designed to be fair and balanced in what they can do but like Paul said, due to certain strategies and cards, decks become unfair even though those strategies and cards are fair and legal, theres nothing saying you cant play a deck how you want.

Generally I find more ''fun'' in match ups where card economy is important, player interaction is frequent, and not too much floodgates/negates on legs. The last two can add interest to the game if they arent overdone. For example, if your opponent has one or two negates that might be engaging to overcome. If they have 5 or 6 sometimes it's not worth playing the game out. While I do think there is room to put your opponent in an unwinnable position, it should happen infrequently and be difficult to set up. OTKs are in a similar camp. If a deck can OTK 5% of the time that's generally not a big deal, but if it can do so 80% of the time if you don't have the right answers that can be not fun. Think about Goat Control, technically you can OTK. Example : Player A summons breaker and ends their turn Player B uses graceful charity to ditch a light and dark. Summons Bls, double attacks, sets ring of destruction to activate on opponent's draw phase. That's pretty much an OTK but games very rarely actually play out that way in goat format. There can also be a degree of intrigue when it comes to each player having options/decisions to make. I think that's why people resonated well with synchro/xyz cards. You might have the ability to summon any one extra deck monster from more than half the cards in your extra deck and picking the right one for the situation can be fun and engaging.

@ziadnabil403

3 жыл бұрын

No deck can put 5 or 6 negates bro

Well it depends on what scenario of "Fair" you wanna use. Fair as in can it compete in today's meta? Fair as in a casual for fun setting would it be too broken or op? It all revolves around the setting of things and how well the deck performs...more specifically archetype only decks. Those are fun, but some archetypes are actually really powerful in a casual.

Can you please share your Rikka deck profile somewhere?

Yeah, it's a very subjective topic. Personally I believe what Konami needs to do is simply raise the LP minimum. The power creep is quite obvious in all of these decks, so to offset this all you really need to do is simply raise the LP to a point where OTK's become unlikely and you have more opportunities to respond to your opponents strategies.

@Zero-One01JB

3 жыл бұрын

Idk about that man, if they raise to life to like 16000 some ppl can still otk

@Sharingansandninja

3 жыл бұрын

@@Zero-One01JB True, but it becomes very very difficult. As someone who almost exclusive plays Yugioh with 16k-20k LP I know first hand. At 20k it pretty much becomes almost impossible. The only deck we know of that could do it very consistently was Ra, but it wasn’t even bad because it could be stopped easily if sided against.

That's very true. I guess a solution would be to give everyone the same deck for a tournament that way you can't say someone else's deck is unfair because you're playing the same deck. It really is just a matter of perspective and things like what you're playing also factor into how fun a game can be.

@drillygo6984

3 жыл бұрын

thats what tier 0 formats are lol like zoo format everybody at top tables were playing the same deck and the only factor that matter to win was skill

A fair game can only be described as a back and forth. A way to counter what someone does other than just not letting them play any cards. I'm old blood and what people call grind game is just what the game should be. Slogging back and forth until someone finally breaks. Thats a fair game.

Based on other card games I would say a deck or strategy that completely locks the opponent out/locks out entire mechanics, uses lots of negation (just heavy control strategies), FTKs in general (Or just winning very very quickly compared to the other decks at the table), or the deck just solitaires. This one isn't prevalent in Yugioh but resource destruction such as discard, mill, or land destruction. Those are generally things people aren't going to find super fun to play against. I mostly play MTG and play the commander format which has what we call the "social contract" which basically says, just because a card is legal, doesn't mean you should play it for the sake of having fun in the group. Obviously, if you are playing competitively, by all means, try to win. However, if you are playing casually, then the power level of your deck needs to be similar to your opponent. So for example, which mind you I have been out of yugioh for like 2 years or so; if I play my casual very pure build Dark Lord deck, and my opponent uses a deck that is designed to put out a few negates and/or prevents me from special summoning, or even just wins before turn 3, I could easily say, that deck is unfair. However, the issue comes in that, that deck isn't actually unfair, it simply is a uneven match. Or for example, if I'm playing Blue-Eyes, and my opponent is playing Harpies and drops that barrier statue and I get hosed, like Paul asked, is Harpies unfair? Well no, the barrier statues are. But then you have to ask the question, ok is the barrier statue actually an issue or is my opponent just not running enough counters to such an obvious weakness? Which then leads into, that depends on how casual the match is and what each player is looking for in the games they play. This is really something I've learned from playing Magic, and playing Commander specifically, is that it's not about a deck being fair or unfair, it's about expectations and deck power level.

things that lock you out from playing, are not the only unfair things in the game. decks like salad, sky striker, etc, may not say YOU CANT PLAY, but they definitely have “unfair” resource recycling, at least compared to other decks. it’s a strong advantage that gives them a leg up in many matchups, even though they don’t floodgate you. zexal for example, may lock you out, but it almost never had any tops.

love your video - very interesting , I know there is deck out there " dragon - dragon link deck" ect that are very strong - but if both player enjoy it then i guess is fine - lmao I would have a panic attack if I have to duel one of those deck ! lmao

@jorieboy11

3 жыл бұрын

Your drawings are really cool.

@dmcfinearts

3 жыл бұрын

@@jorieboy11 omg thank thank you soooooo much !!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

@rigoguzman4195

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah if both players have strong decks like that well it’s fair duel, but against another player Can be unfair lol

@dmcfinearts

3 жыл бұрын

@@rigoguzman4195 very true ! i can see my self getting overkill with one of those decks lmao

@luxray4911

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's facts. I enjoy playing against those decks myself

I think madolche is kicked out some of them because it see's some play in the actual format even if not a lot same for guru, pk fire, infinitrackI orcust, ba and even heros the idea is to create a format completely unrelated to the actual format.

nobody would say they enjoy not being able to play but certain decks like madolche I'd say are pretty fair without the extra deck but I always liked madolches anyways I feel most would agree being able to get a combo off that wasn't searched is nice I don't see issues with weak monsters with good effects that don't have protection like the barrier statues

i would define a fun deck as it that it needs to have a weakness. so either not very consistant, no (or verry little) interuptions in the opponents turn, or no (or very little) otk potential. but lets face it, when it comes down to it we'll alway's measure it against the power of our own fun deck so there is no objective answer.

Its really hard to draw the line with fair tbh but I think if your going to play for fun like casual make sure your deck doesn't have a way for infinite negates and board wipes and just a complete no against your opponent. I love combo decks and playing against them but we shouldn't be too critical

I’d say harpie can be really unfair, as they can easily make Simorgh + barrier statue, and leave another Harpie on field so you can use Feather Storm to just Ruin your opponent’s turn. However FS isn’t searchable, and there’s a lot of counterplay involved with Harpie. Idk it gets crazy really quickly and I think Harpie perfectly exemplifies this.

Nice video I feel like if someone takes 2 or more minutes with a turn it’s an unfair deck lol so much diggin through the deck and special summoning ... fair deck would be quick plays nothing too complicated to have a back and forth duel

A "you can't play Yugioh" deck is what I would constitute as not fair, but I'm an old school fan who's only casually keeping up with things as opposed to playing a lot, so take that with a grain of salt. To be more specific, I'd say how Light and Darkness Dragon used to work was absolutely an unfair card (that is, if I understand its errata correctly).

Heros are lit...but dragoon with hand trap's are hella crazy

I've always looked at it in terms of counterplay. Does the deck have a weakness? Is there a window of opportunity for the opponent to stop it? How big is that window? That sort of thing. If a game is to be played, I think it's only fair that both people get to play it! But, and this is something that gets talked about a lot in Magic the Gathering (Commander, specifically), it also has a lot to do with expectations for the game. Is it a competitive game? Or casual? Are you bringing your competitive meta deck to stomp your friend's Beaver Warrior deck? Then it's unfair. For a game/deck to be fair, it needs to be an even playing field to begin with. It's a source of much heated debate among Commander players.

If the cards are legal and I can use it in tournament, I believe it’s fair. If I can play my “Timelord/Mystic Mine” deck and my opponent isn’t ready with spell and trap removal then it’s fair game. They’re gonna get burned out and I’ll win with one simple card.

Pure shaddoll, it's good but all it does is crank out a couple fusions plus pure dolls is kind of slow. Only reason it's any good right now is because schism. Cuz the moment you negate the winda the only threat is construct. Also the strongest monster only has 2,800 attack that means that if you summoned blue eyes you could kill the whole entire fusion lineup.

i think the irony is that as decks eliminate luck more and more by becoming more and more consistent, luck becomes a more substantial part of the game as a whole, because the difference between being unlucky and being decently lucky is much bigger between having guaranteed access to your entire combo and bricking vs the difference between having some good cards and some worse cards...and since that difference is so huge, that's also why card advantage is so overpowered

What I would place as being most fair would be non-generics. If it's part of an archetype explicitly or at least limits by things like Type or Attribute it's more fair than if it doesn't. If Pot of Greed isn't good because it would be spammed in decks galore, then it's reasonable to say that of ANY card that could reasonably be used in any deck. For example, it wasn't inherently Virtual World that made them great, it was their ability to bring out something that wasn't of their archetype or the core types/attributes of those in it. You're never really going to be able to even them out but if you just had to choose a single archetype and stick to cards for it and it's types/attributes you'd get a lot fairer decks overall. If I got to choose an extra meta for them to include, that's the one I'd want. I don't have a problem with playing actual meta stuff, but I much prefer pure decks because of their relative fairness. If I want to use Dragoon, I don't just want to stuff Verte, Dragoon, Dark Magician, Red-Eyes, and Red-Eyes Fusion into another deck, I would rather play, say, a Dark Magician and/or Dark and/or Spellcaster deck or Red-Eyes and/or Dark and/or Dragon deck, you know?

So it is hard to deal with what is fair and not fair. But I think that Konami should continue to provide more support for the older decks so that they can also try to shift into the meta category rather than it being the same decks each time or the meta decks. Example Zodiac before Zeus was like rogue deck or better. But since Zeus arrived you could say that it is now a meta deck or teir 0 or 1 or 1.5 deck. I think that if Konami were to actually rotate so the next set would include like 70% cards to new support for the old archetypes and 30% new card. Then rotate so the next main set would do 70% are new cards and 30% are old archetype new support that way the meta won’t always just be new decks or grabbing the rogue or teir 2 and 3 decks and just throwing them into the meta decks because they got added 1 card that helps the deck deal with a lot of the meta decks so what they can bring.