Apparently Richard’s video was removed for harassment and bullying. Of course, he’s accusing Kalel of having it removed with no evidence whatsoever. I'm glad it was removed, and really wish youtube did a better job removing such videos. There are people who are really negatively affected by this type of harassment. The thought that people like Richard are keeping creative people off of youtube for fear of this kind of bullshit makes me so sad. Anyway, I’m sorry to see he’s returned to being a dick. He was doing really well for a few months there! I hope he gets the professional help he so desperately needs.

@TheNocturnalpheonix

6 жыл бұрын

Unnatural Vegan Wholeheartedly agree. ✊🏼🔥

@kenrose2523

6 жыл бұрын

Unnatural Vegan Honestly I’m not the biggest fan of Richard’s trolling but I disagree with you. Everyone is entitled to free speech regardless(useless physical threats or loss of income due to defamation is involved). She could have just made a response.

@VeganGains

6 жыл бұрын

So saying mean words is unacceptable to you but someone promoting the consumption of animal products is fine? Weird how unnaccessary violence is acceptable to you but bad language needs to be punished. This line of reasoning isn't surprising to me coming from someone who also claims it's vegan to buy leather shoes. The post Kalel made on her twitter was self incriminating, she obviously got my video taken down, and again if you anyone has such a problem with my content then don't watch it. Why does it have to be taken off the internet when you are the who chooses to watch? How about I find a way to delete all of your videos because they are offensive to my sensibilities? You wouldn't appreciate that would you? You are a dishonest cry baby just like Kalel.

@gaylenewood7707

6 жыл бұрын

Unnatural Vegan Well his dumass.is sitting in that leather chair with those headphones and his monitors that are probably made from fossil fuel that are from dead animals and yet he bitches.at other ppl for buying leather shoes or coat which could be made with fake leather..

@Elsa-wn9wo

6 жыл бұрын

Vegan Gains Come on Richard, you’re better than this. She obviously doesn’t think buying leather shoes is vegan, you’re punching a straw man. It’s so sad to se you resort to name calling and misrepresenting arguments when you have such potential to be a great debater. I was in awe of how well you handled onision, we need more of that in the vegan movement, not this.

Vegan Gains is the epitome of the vegan public relations problem.

I need to say, I admire how calm and eloquent you are when answering to this vulgar non sense, I would not contain myself when discussing these statements...

@gaylenewood7707

6 жыл бұрын

Alyssia777 That's because unnatural vegan has bigger inner balls than vegan gain.does which explains his marriage🤣

@theprimevegan5410

6 жыл бұрын

You also admire her attempt to destroy Veganism.

@roelin360

4 жыл бұрын

@@theprimevegan5410 *rolls eyes*

Does anyone actually take that lunatic seriously?

@Ben-fr8gi

6 жыл бұрын

It seems they do, I often see comments in the videos from people saying he encouraged them to go vegan. His approach doesn't connect with me quite the same, but seems to work for some. What I wonder is for how many people connect with it, how many go away and don't return? I have no idea, but then again the same could be asked for any vegan youtuber.

@hammypie

6 жыл бұрын

Ben - yeah, unfortunately UV has a lot of fans.

@vegantina6565

6 жыл бұрын

Ben yes. Hundreds of thousands of people. Because he isn’t a shill who pretends to be vegan.

@FixYourGameplay

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I also don't know why people follow this inbred non-vegan channel

@jessa.4529

5 жыл бұрын

Then why ya'll here if you hate her? Go home. You're here bc you like hearing the gospel. Haha

At this point I feel like it's not even about the animals anymore. Richard just loves arguing and starting shit with people. He is a perfect example of how just because you don't contribute to the exploitation of animals you can still be a shity person.

@momerathsx

6 жыл бұрын

Just Some Vegan no one says he doesn’t care about the animals, OP said that it isn’t even about the animals anymore. You can live a vegan lifestyle without attacking everyone.

@therobin980

6 жыл бұрын

Just Some Vegan that's not what she meant. She meant that he can care about animals, but it doesn't show in these videos. The videos he makes are not about reducing suffering any more but more to get views. That doesn't mean that he doesn't care about the animals , we don't know that for sure

@kenzeeharmon4162

6 жыл бұрын

Just Some Vegan she wasn't encouraging the use of animal products, she was questioning people who think it's okay to use palm oil and call themselves vegan and weather it's more or less harmful than using leather.

@kenzeeharmon4162

6 жыл бұрын

Just Some Vegan there's a lot of vegan KZreadrs who are anti-science and just plain wrong on things and that's what she makes videos on. Criticism is not shitting on someone.

@jackburton6998

6 жыл бұрын

Right? He should be a cable "news" channel host.

the fact that he insults you soon much totally discredits his entire video. like does he think he sounds sophisticated calling you an inbred ??? just what the actual fudge

@marujitadiaz9019

6 жыл бұрын

Actually, what you argued here is also a fallacy. I think it's called the fallacy fallacy. The fact that he used ad hominem arguments doesn't automatically invalidate the rest of his arguments.

@littlesometin

6 жыл бұрын

it's more that once you start throwing these words around people just click away from the video and nobody wants to know what you have to say anymore

@marujitadiaz9019

6 жыл бұрын

*littlesometin:* _"…once you start throwing these words around people just click away from the video and nobody wants to know what you have to say anymore"_ - Apparently you are wrong because there were still numerous people willing to know what he had to say, including Swayze Foster.

@Ella-cg8he

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah. Starting almost every argument by saying the other person said what they did "because they're retard" isn't particularly convincing.

It's hard to watch this video because Richard is just so rude and gross :(. You're so strong to not only respond effectively but also calmly. Keep up the good work!

@RachaelTheFirboldDruid

6 жыл бұрын

Thicc Picc agreed

@sofia.eris.bauhaus

6 жыл бұрын

i bet he DOESN'T INTEND to be a giant douche, so it's all fine.. :P

@Caught_You200

6 жыл бұрын

Not listening to sound arguments because they come off as “rude” is sad.

@sofia.eris.bauhaus

6 жыл бұрын

형아시로: what argument? i hope it's not the "the intentions matter" argument, that seems pretty thoroughly addressed. (and yeah, btw: taxpayers have some responsibility for the things done with tax money. it depends on how willingly they cooperate, how much money it is, and perhaps other factors..)

@Caught_You200

6 жыл бұрын

sofias. orange I’m talking about the o.p. Here

Oh. Now I remember why I do not watch VG anymore. Those insults are ridiculous...

@leotheabys

6 жыл бұрын

DEATHRIPZ sure sure...

I mean... I don't understand how he can be this passionate while being so wrong.. Even when using absurd comparisons to try to support his narrative. I'm glad his video was flagged because this IS simple harassment

@Avenger222

6 жыл бұрын

+Alyssia777 Vegan Gains being rude and it being harassment? Totally agree, but, morally speaking, he's not wrong (with the exception of the palm oil "intention" argument). He definitely could have made his point without resorting to name calling and harassment though. [edit: forgot he made the palm oil "intention" argument.. I think NV is right about that]

@marujitadiaz9019

6 жыл бұрын

*Alyssia777:* _"I mean... I don't understand how he can be this passionate while being so wrong."_ - _"The road to hell is paved with good INTENTIONS"_

@Azshara777

6 жыл бұрын

I thought about that but being this petty and insulting.... the intentions cannot be THAT good ...

@Aceofwolves

3 жыл бұрын

That's a classic sign of narcissism and delusions (

@pointthirteen2234

2 жыл бұрын

Lack of nutrition as a result of his diet also has psychological implications. He is extremely unhinged, emotional, and very stupid, partly due to the nutrients that he is lacking that are affecting his brain and mental state.

I honestly don't understand why he has to be so incredibly rude. It does nothing to help any plant-based movement, and it just makes him look like one of the "bad vegans" that give everybody else a bad reputation. It isn't even that hard to be nice either...especially in front of a camera, when you know it's going to be uploaded onto the internet where tons of people can see it. There is no reason to bully. I hope he finds some way to manage that behavior.

@kenrose2523

6 жыл бұрын

IsaBella Jaimie it gets the most views in the shortest amount of time unfortunately.

@Ashly969

6 жыл бұрын

She's been lying this whole time and so has Kalel.... Yet you're concerned about that guy being rude?

@rosettekinney8587

6 жыл бұрын

Ashly How have they been lying?

@q..q2291

6 жыл бұрын

IsaBella Jaimie I agree, I can’t deal with the swearing and the aggression. It’s sad really, because I agree with him on the subject. He made some good points (the guilt by economic association thing aside), but no one cares now, because he’s so hateful.

@isabellajaimie

6 жыл бұрын

Whether or not anybody has been lying, his behavior makes him look like a horrible guy. And frankly, I trust Unnatural vegan more than some dude who right off the bat starts his arguments by saying she is "too f*ing stupid to understand" instead of just stating what he thinks without being hostile. "Unnatural vegan is a retarded, inbred piece of trash" coming from a way too over the top angry man is just... SOMEHOW not appealing to me. So yeah, I'm concerned. Because he's way too angry for it to be healthy....

You're leagues ahead of vegan gains - in both intellect and character.

@VeganDefinition

3 жыл бұрын

Coming from someone who isn't being murdered for a sandwich, easy to say human supremacist.

@noaccountability6398

2 жыл бұрын

Um

"Its not a necessary consequence of palm oil production" but it is the reality of it. Chicken abuse is not a necessary consequence of egg farming. But it is the reality of it. Cow abuse is not a necessary consequence of milk farming, but it is the reality of it. Even meat. It's possible to have ethical meat (maybe not large scale but still technically possible)- wait for the natural death of a free creature - suffering isn't the necessary consequence of getting meat, but its the reality of it. Veganism isn't about intentions, it's about the lived realities of animals. Whether or not you want orang utangs to be blown up/shot/squished/skinned/starved/homeless means fuck all if they still are. If you're choosing to buy a protein bar with palm oil, you're just as complicit in animal abuse as any one else who chooses to consume bread with milk in it, or a salad with fetta Maybe you believe that complicit level is high maybe you believe it's low, but either way, palm oil is no different to eggs or milk when you're choosing to not even try to avoid it, despite knowing the consequences of it.

@Ashly969

6 жыл бұрын

That is so dumb. Here's why when you intend to use an animal product, that is intentionally immoral. There's no humane way to farm animals. When you buy palm there is a moral way to farm said oil. Falsely conflating inherent harm to harm that may occur isn't the same thing.

@meowmeow5591

6 жыл бұрын

Ashly a) were not talking about "moral" palm oil b) there is no such thing as moral palm oil c) if you mean "sustainable" palm oil, then it's like free range eggs & ethical slaughter, animal suffering but it's made pretty. It's absolutly not a false equivalence as my comment explained if you actually read it all. Good bye fan boy who doesn't even have knowledge about the product he's arguing about

@meowmeow5591

6 жыл бұрын

Just Some Vegan ....huh? I can't tell if you're mocking vegan gains hypocritical sentiment,or if you're strawmaning my argument & claiming I'm the hypocrite?

@Avenger222

6 жыл бұрын

+meow meow Palm oil has the potential to be moral, it's just not realistic given our current technology. I agree with your points though.

@JanniGuldeIversen

6 жыл бұрын

Just Some Vegan Nah, to me it sounds more like a correction of the excuse for palm oil. Like: Supporting animal products = bad. Supporting palm oil = also bad. Just stop using/supporting both.

In my humble opinion Richard is a raging hypocrite! He wants to talk about being a “perfect” vegan and basically try’s to rip apart anyone who makes any kind of exception or mistake. However, he and his wife bought a wolf dog from a breeder instead of adopting which is the right and ethical thing to do. They wanted a specific type of dog and that’s not vegan at all considering breeding causes so much harm and millions of animals are euthanized due to breeding and failure to spay/neuter pets. Then they gave her away cuz they failed to do proper research on Wolf dogs and who knows where that poor pup is now..

@bruisley709

6 жыл бұрын

Megan Leanne He does not talk about being a perfect vegan idiot. He looks at the definition of veganism and how Kalel is trying to change the definition so she can stay vegan did you even watch his video on it??

@roelin360

6 жыл бұрын

Just Some Vegan what's wrong with you? You just seem to be trying to tear UV down in almost every comment chain. It's becuase you're a fan of richard and she hurt your feelings huh?

@olimnagev1167

6 жыл бұрын

Megan Leanne This is a complete straw man. Richard does not expect people to be perfect at all. He actually talked about that in his video and gave the example of how some people might transition towards being vegan gradually and how there's nothing wrong with that. He just expects them to be truthful about what it means to be vegan. Willingly choosing to consume animal products when you feel like it, and when you absolutely have the possibility of choosing a vegan option, that doesn't fit the description of a vegan.

@theluckypoptart2945

6 жыл бұрын

He also has many computers, motorcycles, cars and so on. He brags about how much stuff he owns without thinking about the harm that stuff does. Also they tried to make that dog vegan. It didn't go well because wolves aren't vegan. They can't be. So, they feed him meat now.

@awshumxD

6 жыл бұрын

Megan Leanne EXACTLY

I give you mega props for always sticking so calm and rational when dealing with someone like this. I know you are because you are a strong woman, but i hope you didnt take any of his cruel words to heart, they are not true. Great video as always!💖💖

@tylerp657

6 жыл бұрын

tie dyed have you watched her vegan cheetah video? She changed her opinion, a complete 180°. Its obvious she is defending the bigger channels for more subs, and criticizing smaller channels when its convenient. Please go watch her video on vegan cheetah and decide for yourself.

@tiedyed2869

6 жыл бұрын

Tyler P yes ive seen the video, all he really said in it though was that she was “anti free speech” Im not the kind if person who agrees with someone 100% because i like them. I think it was wrong that vegan gains’ video was taken down. But i dont think Swayze is anti free speech, i would say she is just anti-bullying. I also dont think she was supporting Kalel because she is a big channel, she just made a video about her genuine opinion and because its a hot topic now. Everyone youtube channel makes videos about whats relevant right now to get the most views. (and there is nothing wrong with that)

@tylerp657

6 жыл бұрын

tie dyed why has her opinion changed? She didnt support vegan cheetah, but she supported kalel. If being anti bullying means taking down videos, then its inherently anti free speech. I mean her position on it is flawed now that she agrees with Kalel, at least it was consistent when she criticized cheetah.

@tiedyed2869

6 жыл бұрын

Tyler P yeah im saying i dont agree with his video getting taken down. I just dont think she meant to come off as anti free speech. I dont really comment on free speech either because im not american😋 Sorry im a little lost, what opinion specifically are you talking about that she changed?

@tylerp657

6 жыл бұрын

Roger that. She opposed Vegan Cheetah's choice to buy chicken flavored top ramen, or to eat a veggie burger with dairy cheese on it(even though he ordered it without it). But now she supports Kalel buying candy bars or leather shoes. I'm sure you can do find the video she did on him if you look for it. She clearly changed her position for her own benefit.

Every time Richard says "intent" I die a little inside. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE

@Wlof25

6 жыл бұрын

Clara Brandão Actually it does. UV just didnt understand it.....and I am not even a vegan, so I am not biased toward any of them. Looking just consequnces (suffering, harm, etc) is very shallow and has problems. I think obe is called moral luck. Google it if you are interested, I am on the phone now and cant write much. When you do a thing, you need intent why and toward what goal. A person can do something what has good consequnces, but out of selfish reasons, lets say that a child is drowning and I really dont care about the child...but if I save it, people will say I am a hero and will gain benefits out of it...and I save the child. Obviously if people knew the real intent and even though the child is saved, people will not think I am a hero. An ethical theory without intent is missing something important.

@mrlloydval2887

6 жыл бұрын

you are incapable of understanding the meaning of the word "intent"? it's one of the most basic things. how can it not make sense?

@MaxGrassfed

6 жыл бұрын

The main diffrence is that boycotting palm oil doesn't change anything for the Orang-Utans. Even if Nobody would by palm oil and all the plantations needed to be shut down. Why? People and/or industries would plant something else and deforestation would go on. When nobody buys animal products, noone will breed and kill animals anymore. When nobody buys palm oil, they will still kill Orang-Utans. Boycotting can't fix that problem.

@Preservestlandry

3 жыл бұрын

@@Wlof25 I don't see how that would matter. As long as the child's alive, what does your intent matter? What does it matter if people think you're a hero or not? It's irrelevant. Same with the orangutan.

Seriously how has vegan gains never heard the road to hell is paved with good intentions ???

I'm not intending to kill orangutans when I buy palm oil... I'm not intending to kill cows when I buy cheese... Nice try tho Vegan Gains.

@michaelalavi3538

6 жыл бұрын

It's not exactly the same as an animal product, palm oil is more comparable to cosmetics and personal products that are tested on animals. They "could" have been made in a way that doesn't exploit animals. Totally agree that Richards "intent" argument falls flat. Him giving palm oil a free pass is as silly as Kalel's free pass for animal tested cosmetics. But not as silly as her free pass for dairy.

@tatum8595

6 жыл бұрын

Michael Alavi That is true! But I think that a lot of vegetarians especially think that milk and eggs are products that ~could~ also be made without harm to animals. In both situations, palm oil and dairy or eggs, that is not our current reality.

@bunnyrabbitsrkewl

6 жыл бұрын

Michael Alavi exactly what i was thinking!

@safiyav5602

6 жыл бұрын

Everyone knows already Unnatural Vegan is a Dairy and Meat Industry SHILL

@cerebralsymphony5781

6 жыл бұрын

You've failed miserably then, you should employ critical thinking instead of selfish thinking.

This was hard to watch. So appaling. Honestly... It doesn't even deserve a logical/civil response.

@freevoice1817

6 жыл бұрын

pyrobotnik dream on

@Alinutz321

6 жыл бұрын

pyrobotnik haha, the little kid thinks he knows anything. Go back to your safe place, Richards channel will never die.

11:25 lmao Anyway, Richard is such a sad and small person. I wish him well and hopefully years from now, he’ll look back at his younger self and think, “Wow...I thought I was a great person for being vegan and reducing suffering in the world. But really i was a *source* of suffering by spreading hateful petty speech.”

@ThatKid22101

6 жыл бұрын

He won't, He's a narcissist.

Every single insult he says makes him look worse and worse...

@jr5296

6 жыл бұрын

to who? not to me. i dont always agree with his language but he's correct. you people are too sensitive

@theprimevegan5410

6 жыл бұрын

He might not give you the anecdotal comment you want but he is right. I love him because he goes into battle with a sword and shield for the animals and it works. Hes my Vegan Marine Corps.

@JackBeddows

6 жыл бұрын

You're using your phony outrage at his language to ignore the logic of his points. Be consistent.

Not only is what he said rude but it just doesnt make sense??? wow I didnt know people even thought like that

@therobin980

6 жыл бұрын

Just Some Vegan no, that's not all there is to it. Did you watch the original video that be responded to? Furthermore, what he says really doesn't make sense. He doesn't quote correctly and shows things she said completely out of context.

@ZoeRaeMusic

6 жыл бұрын

Just Some Vegan sounds like you haven’t actually watched any of the videos lol You just here to fight with people?

@Pixelynx

6 жыл бұрын

Zoë Rae -- Yes. That's what idiots who go on to channels they don't like do. Because their life is obviously miserable and they need to fill the void and make themselves feel better by going out of their way to find things to bitch about. XD

@gingfreecss3467

6 жыл бұрын

Shelby Sims it is very obvious you want to say it doesnt make sense only because he is rude. Your feelings about him overwrite your reality. Which you shouldnt do.

@Alinutz321

6 жыл бұрын

Shelby Sims dumb girl...

I'm not vegan but stumbled upon your videos a few years back and found them interesting. You're probably the most rational vegan I have ever come across. Anyway, I just wanted to say, don't you worry about people like him. You're doing a fantastic job!

@Gabriel-is5xq

6 жыл бұрын

ravenspe this is a nice comment, i like thoughtful people

@tylerp657

6 жыл бұрын

I encourage you watch Vegan Gains response, just because he is not level headed "anger" wise, does not mean he is wrong. If you dont want to watch it, id be happy to explain why she is in the wrong on this topic.

@ravenspe

6 жыл бұрын

Tyler P Being right or wrong is irrelevant to anything I said. It was his childish behavior that prompted my response. I could otherwise care less who is "correct".

@tylerp657

6 жыл бұрын

ravenspe "most rational vegan..." Rational: based on or in accordance with reason or logic. If you are wrong in reason or logic, you are not rational. I think vegan gains gets a bad rap despite actually bein rational, I understand he is not everyone's cup of tea.

@ummesalmatahir6745

5 жыл бұрын

I think you mean level headed and approachable, and not unrealistic.

May I just say I genuinely appreciate your videos so much because it's really refreshing to hear responses that are calm, noninflammatory, and backed with references. And good on you for standing up for yourself always.

yeah I'm done with Richards channel.

@ExEEveeMon

6 жыл бұрын

eric jaeger Yay 😘

@megs3003

6 жыл бұрын

me too, i unsubscribed after this kalel debacle. he's just embarrassing now

@ZoeRaeMusic

6 жыл бұрын

I haven’t watched him since the roaming millennial debate. He allowed her to win the debate because he couldn’t keep his emotions in check. He didn’t make any points and just called her names. He is the worst thing for the vegan movement and I think the vegans would have such better luck winning over more people if he would actually just stop being vegan, or at least stop making videos. He is way too emotional for KZread.

@33cattt49

6 жыл бұрын

Zoë Rae he lost the debate ? You must be running on emotions . Lolz but hey that is the stereotype lolz

@mrlloydval2887

6 жыл бұрын

lol he was completely right about kalel though. kalel knowingly bought, used, and consumed animal products because she wanted to and she admitted it even though there was no reason for it to be necessary. that behavior is not vegan. also roaming didn't stand a chance in that debate.

Although I am no vegan by any means, I am glad that you aren't like the others who put people down just because they aren't doing what vegans want people to do. I have heard of this guy before in the past and he was very toxic. I thought he faded away, but sadly no. I can't understand why KZread won't shut his channel down. You deserve a bigger voice in the vegan community.

@rube6361

6 жыл бұрын

Zylo Sol of course you're glad she's not telling you that what you're doing is wrong. No one wants to hear that their actions are wrong. Wake up and make the right choice or sit back and know you are wrong.

@olimnagev1167

6 жыл бұрын

Lip. Service.

@megs3003

6 жыл бұрын

one time, he made a video about this dude who had cancer saying he deserved it and laughing at him.

@olimnagev1167

6 жыл бұрын

megs3003 So someone who actually willingly funds the exploitation and murder of countless sentient beings is a good person. But someone who criticises that person for they're immoral behavior and expressing that they feel that they deserve to suffer for those actions is somehow a bad person? You clearly value feelings more than facts...

@saltoftheegg

6 жыл бұрын

Rube You don’t care about animals, you just want everyone to know that you’re better than them. If you really really cared, and were actually a smart person, you would be encouraging non-vegans instead of spouting arrogant nonsense at them. You and people like you are the biggest problem veganism faces today. And don’t even start with the “but I’m doing the right thing and they aren’t why should I care about their feelings” argument. If you grow the fuck up and move out of your parents basement you might realize that you can sacrifice your sense of superiority for the cause and potentially change someone’s mind instead of pushing people away from veganism, like you just did.

you’re the logic & reasoning necessary in this movement.

@RachaelTheFirboldDruid

6 жыл бұрын

Agreed

@BlackPhoenix00280

6 жыл бұрын

Absolutely

@__seeker__

6 жыл бұрын

100% correct

@Justin-eb7ou

6 жыл бұрын

No. That would be AskYourself.

@yakib4663

6 жыл бұрын

Justin Yep, that guys a logical powerhouse.

i didn't see vegan gain's response because...he is unwatchable to me lol but i'll watch your response to his...response

@Em9002

6 жыл бұрын

Weeping Willow That's what I always do. I can't handle him.

THIS IS THE TEA I’M HERE FOR

922 days without the recipe. Do you have the intention to share the kale seitan recipe anytime even if you won't ever? Because if so, it's alright. (Spoiler: No, of course it's not)

Why are you ignoring the fact that 1 year ago you said that Vegan Cheetah wasn't a vegan for the same reason as Kalel but you defend her now? What is the difference?

@marujitadiaz9019

6 жыл бұрын

*Helena,* that Vegan Cheetah was male or female?

@helena8926

6 жыл бұрын

Marujita Díaz male, his channel name is Charles Marlowe now, he changed it because he said he didn't want to be related with vegans xDDD go see UV's response to him if you want :))

@NS-uc3by

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, strange how she doesn't address this obvious hypocrisy on her end.

@Hantarrrrr

6 жыл бұрын

I think the difference was VC deliberately bought foods that he knew contained animal products when there were perfectly good vegan alternatives available to him.

@vegantina6565

6 жыл бұрын

Hantarrrrr wait ... how is that the “difference”...? That is literally what Kalel admitted to doing: intentionally buying food/clothing/cosmetics that aren’t vegan.

Kalel's definition is not the correct definition. Nobody is perfect and that is not the point. But knowingly buying animal products is not vegan, so dont call yourself vegan, or actually go vegan.

@marujitadiaz9019

6 жыл бұрын

So if a Christian sporadically deviates from Jesus' teachings, shouldn't he or she call him or herself Christian anymore?

@xenoblad

6 жыл бұрын

Marujita Díaz If that Christian knowingly prays to Izanagi, then they are effectively practicing Shintoism and not Christianity at that time. Kalel is not being vegan at the time she's knowingly buying animal products. The same also extends to palm oil. Both vegan gains and kalel are wrong.

@marujitadiaz9019

6 жыл бұрын

*Dalym,* so are you equating buying a pair of shoes with apostasy? Then with what would you equate it if she established a pig farm and started to sell pork, or if she opened a brasserie to serve roasted pork chops and beef steaks? And what if she became a carnism evangelist? By going on with the religious analogy (perhaps more than an analogy) buying a pair of shoes with a strip of leather in them would equate to a venial sin. But apparently, veganism is still in its Inquisition period.

@OvisNigra44

6 жыл бұрын

Marujita Diaz you seem to equate religion and ethical position plus taking religion practicies at a face value. Let me ask you - if you call yourself a pacifist, but once a year shoot someone in their face are you a pacifist or not? In the matter of religion I can only speak about Christianity, but in my opinion it devalued a lot over centuries. People now are "flexible Christians", they pick what rules they follow and don't see religion as a monolite. I understand - people are not perfect. Now, the definition of veganism is quite simple. It's not that slips and mistakes exclude you from "the vegan club", it's totally not about a club or a label. Kalel was dishonest, tried to strech the definition of veganism so it would suit her and (it's just my private opinion and I can't assure it's true) gain popularity using veganism as a fancy thing. I see that a lot. She doesn't seem to want to improve in the future, she doesn't correct her mistakes - this is where the problem lies. Please, don't compare vaganism to religion. You choose to be vegan. You don't expect any punishment for your "sins", but you do it out of your free will. How can you say it's inquisition period? Do you see vegans going out and being violent towards the "apostates"? KZread "harassment" is not inquisition, don't get so emotional.

@simonnaylor3536

6 жыл бұрын

Marujita Díaz if you are paying for animal products, that goes exactly against the point of Veganism. If you can’t even get this, you don’t understand Veganism and you are not vegan.

It's funny that Richard tried to call her argument fallacious and himself used a fallacious comparison. (False equivalence.) His logic was saying that it's a matter of intent using paying taxes as an example, but when it comes to taxes, that's not a matter of intent. That's a matter of will. You don't CHOOSE to pay taxes you HAVE to. That's why plenty of people protest many things; especially when we have to pay taxes on it. Purchasing palm oil is a CHOICE. You may not have picked up a gun to shoot the orangutan, but you do make the choice to ignore that it happens in palm oil production and buy it anyway. And yes, supporting something (by giving money to it) does rightfully make one partially responsible for it. (LOL. I felt like she'd comment on that.) (Oh yeah. And his contradicting himself. Financially supporting palm oil where orangutans are (knowingly) killed is fine but financially supporting the production of leather is not? Confirmation bias spotted.) For an elitist vegan as he is, at this point it really does seem he's just trying to argue just to argue now.

@MaxGrassfed

6 жыл бұрын

Magnimazing The main diffrence is that boycotting palm oil doesn't change anything for the Orang-Utans. Even if Nobody would by palm oil and all the plantations needed to be shut down. Why? People and/or industries would plant something else and deforestation would go on. When nobody buys animal products, noone will breed and kill animals anymore. When nobody buys palm oil, they will still kill Orang-Utans. Boycotting can't fix that problem.

@AYouTubeCommentator

3 жыл бұрын

@@MaxGrassfed then boycott both animals products *and* products that contribute to deforestation.

Hey, what are your views on child labor and stuff? I'm mostly vegan but when I buy clothes or stuff for my appartment I try to buy it the most ethical way possible human wise too (like, not going to walmart or the dollarstore, little stuff like that). I see a lot of vegan obsessing about animal exploitation, but not caring much (not intentionally of course but still) in terms of human exploitation. If you ever by luck see this comment, would love to hear your point about that. If you didn't covered it already.

I had to stop watching this video after a couple minutes because Vegan Gains makes me squirm. Thank you for doing what I could never do.

@mrlloydval2887

6 жыл бұрын

why are you scared of him?

Richards videos have become completely unwatchable because he doesn’t know how to debate anyway but calling out “fallacies” while ignoring his own and SCREAMING at the camera. It raises my blood pressure 😂

Thank you for responding to an angry hateful person in a calm and intelligent, peaceful way.

Swayze, this isn't about the content of the video, but girlllll you look so beautiful! I love this length of hair on you, the brighter lip color, and the simple eye makeup in particular. You just look really fresh and vibrant.

Why does VG always have to be so aggressive? Ugh.

@olimnagev1167

6 жыл бұрын

Why do you care more about "feelings" then about truth?

@Eskapismus

6 жыл бұрын

Olim Nagev Because people like Richard don't do the vegan "movement" any good. Even if he had the more profound arguments compared to calm and rational Swayze, I wouldn't want to listen to the irrational ramblings of a guy who calls people he doesn't agree with "inbreds" etc. To me, his behaviour just seems quite immature and it makes me question his upbringing. Besides, why not be kind to human animals too?

@olimnagev1167

6 жыл бұрын

The Rü I completely agree that vegans should be kind and compassionate to human animals too. However... WHY the fuck do "feelings" matter so much when talking about trying to abolish an eternal HOLOCAUST of sentient beings!!?? Politically correctness and people being offended and using this as an argument to *silence* people is becoming a HUGE problem in this world! Just look at the recent Alex Jones drame and the whole uprise of SJW culture. People need to start caring more about what is *true* then about what their *feelings* are about the *truth* . And people like Unnatural Vegan and Kalel are clearly on the bad side of history concerning this problem in the world.

@Eskapismus

6 жыл бұрын

Olim Nagev I don't know why anyone who is kind, tolerant and just not a total a** to other people is automatically considered an "SJW" nowadays. (What's wrong with social justice anyway? And why do people get offended when someone like Richard is being called out for behaving like an angry little boy without any manners? When did it become "normal" not to respect other people but insult them instead? This is not how I have been taught to interact with other people.) And in my opinion, such aggressive behaviour will not lead to the abolishment of animal exploitation. (To be frank, I don't believe it will ever be abolished at all, because most people are just too egoistic and don't care who dies for their food etc. But it could be reduced.) Yelling at people and telling them they are full of crap because they take part in all of this will just put them off. "Oh, that crazy, annoying plant-eater is telling me how to live my life again. Tonight, I'm gonna have two steaks instead of one. Bwahahaha!" In my experience, rational arguments and tolerance are way more successful. A little example: My husband and his ex-gf were together for ten years. She was an aggressive vegetarian, always nagging and telling him to stop eating meat. Of course he didn't. After he and I had been together for a few months, he realized that he loves our cats and it's grotesque to eat other animals but cuddle others, so he stopped consuming animal products. I never tell people "eating animals makes you a murderer" etc., but just rationally explain why consuming/using animal products is totally unnecessary when talking about the topic from time to time (someone always brings it up when they realize you're only eating veggies at a party, right?). People have to make the connection themselves, forcing them won't be very helpful.

@Eskapismus

6 жыл бұрын

Why feelings matter? Because humans are...humans. :D It's usually easier to achieve sth. if you don't act like a totally ignorant (beeeep).

I wasn't expecting richard to get so wrecked in this exchange. He seemed irrationally angry and really just appeared to want to bully you... but he didn't have a great reason to do it.

I hate the insulting, swear-word-riddled ways of vegan gains and similar channels. Mic. The Vegan and Unnatural Vegan are the best. If you have any more good channels, please recommend them in my comment thread.

@FredJWalsh

6 жыл бұрын

Josef Lincoln has a fun vegan channel. Playful, off-kilter humor and frequent dollar-store quests. Solid dude.

@Ben-fr8gi

6 жыл бұрын

modvegan, she's objective and thinks about stuff on many levels - and she keeps focused on goal, reducing animal use.

@ZoeRaeMusic

6 жыл бұрын

I like channels like raw alignment and rawvana and stuff. They don’t feel this need to debate people at all. Unnatural Vegan still calls people ignorant and uneducated and she most certainly can be rude, also. I usually stick to the channels that don’t spend any time trying to call other people out - they just vlog what they’re doing and how they live their life and don’t have this incessant need to call other people out. Raw alignment Rawvana Raw food romance They all say “raw” but only one of them is completely raw. Alice Olivia is good for anyone recovering from eating disorders. I also like Bonny Rebecca. There are tons of channels out there that are just about what those people do every day living the lifestyle. No drama. No name calling. No telling everybody they’re wrong if they don’t do it the same way. I recommend those channels. I wish UV would do more videos where she tries really hard not to use the words “ignorant” or “uneducated” and just talks about how she lives her life rather than comparing her views with other people.

@julianunyabiz2193

6 жыл бұрын

Zoë Rae ignorant an uneducated are valid criticisms though.

@Gabriel-is5xq

6 жыл бұрын

Sun fruit Dan is more fringe but very interesting

I didn't even bother with his second video, he's just ranting out of his ass

I have noticed, all the worse vegans i see, like those stereotypes at HappyHealthyVegan, Vegangains, always speak sentences that only end in question marks.

@tomjones2157

6 жыл бұрын

skinnwhop87 That is so funny

@olimnagev1167

6 жыл бұрын

skinnywhop87 And why do you *think* that is? :)

@ResistanceQuest

6 жыл бұрын

Good point. I think it's very common among people who don't realize that it weakens the impact of their words and makes them sound condescending and stupid (full disc: I like HHV). I think, without having done any research on the subject, it's because there are so many young people on KZread and social media, and cuz there are no public speaking classes in public schools. Just guesses though

I’ve really been enjoying your videos lately. I used to watch a few of them here and there but I finally subscribed maybe a month or 2 ago and I haven’t regretted it. You always make really good points without having to belittle anyone.

No Richard, veganism is NOT about "reducing unnecessary suffering, death and exploitation". Veganism is about EXCLUDING activities that exploit or force humans to be cruel to animals, as far as it is possible or practical. First excluding is much different than reducing. We exclude those activities from our lives because we can control what we do. "Reducing animal suffering" is impossible, as we just don't know how animals feel.

I love how he just makes up his own fallacy. What an odious person.

@shariwelch8760

6 жыл бұрын

No they didn't. Not even close. It's a hypothetical question. If someone consumes palm oil on a daily basis, how are they still allowed to call themselves vegan when their actions cause the death and suffering of more animals than someone who buys a leather product once or twice a year? Neither thing is 100% vegan. That's the point.

How many times did he say "fallacies"? lol It's like he was just trying to sound way smarter than he obviously isn't. I'm glad his video was removed. He is a bad apple in the vegan community. No one is going to want to go vegan if he is the poster boy for "vegan logic".

@ZoeRaeMusic

6 жыл бұрын

Dark Leaves - he talks about fallacies a lot. Like he thinks he’s still in 6th grade and learning what they are for the first time. But the most entertaining part is he tries to also make up his own fallacies that don’t actually exist lol

@karaleigh5153

6 жыл бұрын

It’s crazy. He keeps calling her names it makes him seem incredibly foolish.

@picklefrits443

6 жыл бұрын

I bet it's the biggest word he knows. Lol

@darkleaves1814

6 жыл бұрын

Just Some Vegan Girl calm down lol Who cares who is smarter. The point is he has a horrible attitude and is a bad representation for anyone wanting to learn more about veganism. Smart people doesn't always equal nice people.

@darkleaves1814

6 жыл бұрын

Just Some Vegan Lol You clearly didn't comprehend the video. And attack his character? He literally attacks everyone's character like he's got roid rage. But it's ok for him to do it because he's "waaay smarter than everyone else." Girl bye.

I commend your poise and level headedness when responding to this vile creature. I wonder why do you even bother? He is rude and insulting and his views are self serving garbage. Just ignore him and keep making your wonderful videos. I am not a vegan nor do I aspire to be, however I like listening to your explanations, myth debunking and overall good research. Keep up the good work!

@wschippr1

6 жыл бұрын

Olim Nagev Such as the, "guilt by economic association fallacy"...

@ZoeRaeMusic

6 жыл бұрын

I agree. She shouldn’t even respond at all. All this does is give him more attention.

This bullshit is why I cringe every time I have to tell someone I'm vegan. It seems VG forgets that there's an entire world of people out there who'd go 50% vegan but then they realize they're going to get shamed for not being 100% vegan. Then they're just like 'nah, don't wanna be associated with _them._ ' Since when was 95% vegan a bad thing??

Thank you for being the voice of reason in this community

Richard has a hard time understanding other people’s arguments

Vegan Gains School Of Logic: 1.) Have a feeling. 2.) Reach into a grab-bag of mix-and-match arguments, until you arrive at the justification of your initial feeling. 3.) Take things out of contexts, misapply logical concepts, cherry-pick or misquote studies, etc. etc. Just for good measure. 4.) When the other person doesn't buy your bad arguments, or points out that you're making bad arguments (and why), turn around and call them names. 5.) Repeat steps 1-4, just more loudly, adding more vulgarity with every repetition. 6.) When the other person gets exhausted and gives up, claim victory!

Richard is the type of person, that if I was to enter into the same room as him or walk the same street as him, he'd shoot me without remorse. And there was no provokation at all, but just how he is. It's scary.

Richard is not a Vegan according to his own standards. He is a hypocrite. But he will never own up to it because he has low self esteem and he wants to be right all the time. By his logic someone can buy chicken and beef because the intent is not to harm animals it’s just to eat animal meat. Someone can commit murder in a robbery because the intent is to get the money not commit murder. We have no way around taxes so him trying to debunk it with that it just makes him look stupid. 🤦🏽‍♂️😂

Plus the fact that "being totally vegan is impossible" makes Vegan Gains so angry just proves that he does it for the ego fed. What a psychopath!

The part i like best of this whole vegan gains video is that he is actively arguing a position which he usually calls "SJWs" out for. Intent matters, even when the actual outcome is the exact opposite of what you are wishing for. That sounds a lot like the "virtue signaling" he loves to call out "SJWs" for. Hypocrisy much.

Wow, and to think I was going to check out his channel for nutritional advice and motivation. Thanks for saving me from wasting my time

I’m 1:14 minutes in and I’m already angry, he clearly didn’t listen to a thing you were saying

Love the haircut

Um... his defense of palm oil is the same argument people use to justify eating dairy....

It's interesting how Vegan Gains talks "fallacies" but the basis of his argument is appeal to emotion ("you don't care about the suffering of animals").

I love how you savage VeganGains with arguments and logic, in a very polite and cool manner. He is so awful, I sometimes think he must actually be anti vegan and just posing as the worst vegan there can possibly be.

@Justin-eb7ou

6 жыл бұрын

"I love how you savage VeganGains with arguments and logic" Oh you mean like how when she failed to understand what an appeal to futility fallacy is? "I sometimes think he must actually be anti vegan and just posing as the worst vegan there can possibly be." Funny cause that is how most people in the actual rational vegan movement perceive Unvegan.

@radubradu

6 жыл бұрын

The rational vegan movement? Is that a movement you just invented? Because it sounds as fake as your KZread profile. She explained perfectly well why VeganGains is full of shit, too sad for you if you lack the capacity to understand.

I like your videos. Normal emotional stability and common sense from yourself and people like healthycrazycool etc, is making me consider going vegan.

I don’t think Vegan Gains realizes the extent of damage that palm oil causes.

1. In the year 2018, how have we not all accepted that impact matters more than intent? 2. Thank you for doing such a great job of calmly shutting this jerk down. The work you're doing is so appreciated!

To me this just sounds like a long winded justification for why he uses palm oil but okay.

Vegan Gains is so agressive compared to you. Your response just comes off as more chic and classy.

Exactly! Taxes are compulsory (assuming I want to live in any country and not on an island by myself). Purchasing choices are optional. They are just not comparable. (And that's also why our government puts economic sanctions on countries that have unethical practices...because when we buy things from those countries it furthers suffering in those countries.)

I agree with you about the palm oil. I’m a vegan and I wasn’t really educated on this topic. From now on I won’t buy products with palm oil in it anymore! Thank you :)

Saw it in my recommended, rolled my eyes and ignored it cos I don't need that dude's negativity in my day

I think you and Richard should do a debate. That would entertain me lol.

@cadetspaceranger

6 жыл бұрын

Yes haha 😂

@Asterite100

6 жыл бұрын

So why not all the time then. A major shortcoming imo.

@Avenger222

6 жыл бұрын

+Nicole Silva Contreras Vegan Gains is rude, but he's not wrong (he's still wrong about the intention thing.. that was a pretty silly argument). For Vegan Gains specifically, it makes sense for her not to debate him. She could debate Ask Yourself instead, since at least he doesn't resort to name calling. Vegan Gains and Ask Yourself hold the same position, so it'd work either way. [edit: "report" to "resort"]

@adribones

6 жыл бұрын

Debates are just performative posturing. Occasionally entertaining but actually a hindrance to the legitimate exchange of ideas.

@Asterite100

6 жыл бұрын

I think she's hesitant to debate (or even acknowledge) Ask Yourself because there was a period in time where he and his fans brigaded the channel and practically begged her to debate with him. Red flags honestly, I don't blame her for being cautious. I think certain people are more interested in being philosophical geniuses than actually spreading an approachable lifestyle. Plus, not everyone is cut out for debates anyway. I think UV does fine in video formats, but I'm not sure she'd do well in action. Debating is a skill and people like Vegan Gains and Ask Yourself actively seek people to debate with. UV never does that, so she might not have the mental stamina (or patience, honestly) to want to debate with people who are very eager to prove their point and become the next debate champion or something. But what do I know, I don't actually know her personally so this is all conjecture. She might have other reasons.

I love watching your videos, and I especially love how you handle someone not only criticizing you, but calling names unnecessarily. (IMO name calling is never appropriate.) Vegan Gains seems like a terrible person to me, so rude, and cannot argue his side without insulting someone in the grossest of ways. Thanks for your content and non-judgmental zone, especially for people like me who are looking into becoming vegan. :)

I know this is an old video but I'm bingeing and you remind me SO much of my undergrad health psychology professor it's remarkable. I dont know if its the dry humor or the str8 fax but i like it.

Richard is probably trying to do what his buddy AY did and make up a completely "ground-breaking" philosophical concept while totally being absolutely capable of discussing and understanding complex philosophical ideas. Wink. Wink.

@Avenger222

6 жыл бұрын

She should debate AY and prove that she's right. Wink. Wink.

@Jay-vz7og

6 жыл бұрын

Do you know in which video UV talks about name the trait? I want to see what all the fuss is about. Also, did she call him a racist? I saw one AY video and now I'm very curious.

@Justin-eb7ou

6 жыл бұрын

>accuses someone of being wrong >doesn't demonstrate as to how they are wrong Guess what? I can do that too. You are wrong. See?

You cut your hair! It looks great-looked great before, too, just saying it looks dope. I love hair like yours-smooth and shiny. My hair has always been coarse (same as my mom's, grandma's, great grandma's). Just very cute, love your makeup too, and your shirt! Such a dumb comment. I watch every single video you post and I respect you so much, I relate to and adore your wit and intelligence, I just wanted to point out all of your super cuteness.

Normally I agree with Richard over you, but I didn’t even finish watching his response because it wasn’t as intelligent as some of his other videos. It was clearly emotionally charged and I think that clouded his ability to hear you and Kalel out. This response to him was great!!! I’m glad you made it! I think his mental health is getting worse because he and his lady are having a rough time (with money, not each other), and it shows in the quality of his content and his level of anger. I hope he gets better and I hope you keep speaking up for yourself☺️

I thought it was a bit out of context. And while I appreciate my share of offensive humor, his tactic seems to be to mainly attack someone's physical appearance which is quite possibly the quickest way to lose an argument. It's petty and not much to really stand on, it's like a child bullying another on the playground. If you're gonna have debates, have your points fleshed out and stay away from completely irrelevant insults.

i'm liking the term 'reducetarianism' these days. it's more inclusive. vegan bully channel's thrive on definitions to exploit the narcissism of small differences. great response.

@vegantina6565

6 жыл бұрын

Plant Eats #EpicFacePalm 🤦🏻‍♀️

@alangdv4127

6 жыл бұрын

"Vegan bully channels" does that include yourself when you used to attack Bite Sized Vegan out of pure and pathetic jealousy by lying about her? You're just as full of shit as Vegan Cheetah and Durianrapist but you attack in a more subtle way but anyone with at least half a brain can see it and thats one of the reasons your channel doesn't and will not ever grow. You vile sack of shit

Thanks for posting this

The definition of veganism is abstaining from using animal products as much as possible. You can't just appeal to futility, that's a slippery slope right there.

Richard gives off a serious Onision vibe specifically when it come to tact or the lack of not to mention their constant reliance on name calling.

Wowza. Finally looked into palm oil and it was really quite depressing.

Short hair don't care lol

My prison psychologist summed up this whole argument to me in a couple lines back in 2005. He told me at the end of the day nobody gives a shit about your intentions. The world judges you on your actions not your intentions behind them. So if you go out and do bad things at the end of the day you are a bad person irregardless of your intentions. Luckily I was at the point I was willing to listen, his influence was a huge factor in the turning around of my life.

Why does Richard need to keep resorting to personal insults? It's so rude and unnecessary. The debate between both channels is really interesting, but Vegan Gains instantly looses any credibility by acting like a child. There is no reason why he can't respectively disagree.

You don't need to pay taxes! Just live the rest of your life in jail Swayze!

@TheShadowBee

6 жыл бұрын

FuzzyCat444 I at least saw the coherence of his arguments until that part. We don't need palm oil, at least not in the industrial quantities that we use right now. Taxes are far less "reasonable and practicable" to avoid. And then the "intent" part? Intent doesn't matter, the resulting harm is what matters. I don't give a shit about being moral, I'm not on a personal spiritual journey, I just care about reducing harm, and I think there's a distinction to be made there.

@shariwelch8760

6 жыл бұрын

That's why there's that old saying, ''The road to hell is paved with good intentions.'' Intentions are nice, it's good to have good intentions, but they aren't what really matters.

@wschippr1

6 жыл бұрын

Shari Welch Well, they are not all that matters. For example if person A runs down someone with their care it is different than person B who fell asleep at the wheel and hit someone with their car. The consequence is the same, but the intent is different. Now you could argue that the over all arching societal reach (and the invariable consequences of such) are important, and that is true, but if we ignore that and just look at the individual example, we can still see that consequences is not the only important aspect, intent does matte as well.

@TheShadowBee

6 жыл бұрын

Alex Noa Yeah, thats fair. I would argue that in this case, someone might get a lighter/different sentence because the intent proves that its not an action that theyre likely to repeat (the aim of judging them being to reduce harm, not to make them a better person). but I'm not going to push a debate on this lol. I'm aware I could just be nitpicking here

@wschippr1

6 жыл бұрын

TheShadowBee Well, I said that even if we ignore that overall societal impact (such as repeatable actions or deterring others from running people down) it still is different. Even if we looked at the hypothetical in a vacuum we can see a clear distinction. Consequences do matter, but so does intent. This is also why attempted murder is judged, but also judged less harshly than actual murder.

i love tea

Richard is clearly depressed. In fact, has admitted and talked openly about it. He obviously has some other psychological issues going on. We can't take what he says seriously.

I think Vegan Gains depression is really getting to him.

it not reasonably possible to not kill life when harvesting food either. Do you use white sugar that been processed through bone char?

@Avenger222

6 жыл бұрын

+Robert W Some people are just unaware. I don't use white sugar for that very reason. "Kill things while harvesting food" It's about *reducing* the amount of unnecessary suffering of sentient beings. We don't have the technology at the moment to prevent wildlife from dying while harvesting food. Besides, about 70% of USA's crops are used in the animal farming industry (to feed the animals). Far less wildlife would die if people go vegan.

@megs3003

6 жыл бұрын

WHAT I didn't know that!

@Ben-fr8gi

6 жыл бұрын

+Robert W not all white sugar is processed with bone char, but some is. I have the benefit of having been vegan for some time now and knowing about this, so I avoid the bone char stuff now. At first I didn't know, then for a while I didn't actively avoid it - I was still busy with other things like not eating dairy. Start with the big things.

VG is rude, but eating animal products means you're not vegan, no matter how you want to label yourself :'D

@hammypie

6 жыл бұрын

Alex Fülle 👏👏👏 exactly 👏👏👏

@vegantina6565

6 жыл бұрын

Alex Fülle WORD 👊🏼

@alexf3036

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you~!

Good on you to include larger portions of the video to provide adequate context, although I have to say I want to see as little of VG content as possible.

I love how calm and collected you are when you respond to this person who’s saying horrible things about you and making this argument personal. It’s so easy to get caught up in feuds when someone attacks one’s character, but you simply respond with research and facts and leave emotions out of it. Truly inspirational!

Criticism, and then credit: 1. On "purity veganism," I think you're straw-manning VG a bit. His criticism of Kalel/you was that you were advocating the acceptance of the *occasional* use of animal product, like the occasional leather purchase or the occasional candy bar, if those lapses/indulgences seemed to serve to keep a person otherwise generally within vegan guidelines. VG's argument -- that, no, we shouldn't just allow ourselves these *easily avoidable* things that hurt animals -- doesn't fall into the unreasonable or impractical, like giving up electricity or medicine. Whatever his theatrics (and, admittedly, his nastiness), his point here seems solid: We need to do everything reasonable that we can. No real reason to reach for that Snickers or that buttered movie popcorn, with so many vegan snacking options available. His outward manner may seem unreasonable, but his point wasn't. It's not "purity veganism" that he wants to see from those of us who call ourselves vegans -- it's veganism, full-stop. 2. On palm oil, your argument -- that our "intent" as consumers is kind of irrelevant, and that we need to be mindful of *consequence*, regardless of our intent -- is well taken. Your take is more sound and considered than VG's, on this one, I think. Maybe he'll revisit. Anyway -- thanks for the videos, cheers.

@LS-mi4pg

6 жыл бұрын

Wholly agree with your points. VG makes himself ridiculous when he could have made a decent argument. There is valid criticism of Kalel in that she's bringing up the absolute pure definition of veganism (which makes being a Real 100% Pure Vegan impossible) and then lumps in her occasional candy bar/movie theater popcorn habits with that.

@williamjiraiya

6 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/aKt9ytewoJqfgqw.html

@FredJWalsh

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I've recently subscribed to Eisel's channel and will take into account his thoughts on the palm oil situation. Cheers

He is special pleading

He's just so aggressive. He needs to cut back on the steroids.

You are my biggest role model right now. Reason #1,000 would be how calm and civil you react to this kid who is calling you an inbred.

I agree that Richard is extremely impolite, but you lied at the beginning of your video. Richard is using the exact same definition you do. You even showed his clip where he is saying exactly that. He's arguing that eating movie popcorn like Kalel said she does is an easily avoidable action.

@katkat7828

6 жыл бұрын

Stefan R she isn't lying. You obviously didn't understand what she was showing you there. He attacked her for using this rigid definition of veganism even though she was merely criticising it, but he cut the clip before she got to that part. A ridiculous manipulation tactic. Watch again.

You got owned by VG.

@Alinutz321

6 жыл бұрын

Earthling Carl 2 yep, but look at all these idiots in the comments, no real arguments. Richard tella the cold hard truth and these morons fail to see anything. Says alot about her audience.

@saddemgargouri

6 жыл бұрын

i got better things to can you TLDR ?

@vegantina6565

6 жыл бұрын

Earthling Carl 2 couldn’t agree more 👌

@Justin-eb7ou

6 жыл бұрын

Disrespectful Insolence He logically showed as to how unvegan is wrong. Did that really fly over your head?

@gerardt8192

6 жыл бұрын

+Anja What about the whole leather/butter popcorn/milk in candy bar point? If that's too hard then just call yourself vegatarian or plant based.

Vegans who try to "outvegan" others are about exclusion, not inclusion. This guy makes awful arguments..

Although I largely agree with you on Richard's discussion about intent, he is right in one (possibly significant) way that consuming meat intends the harming of an animal, whereas consuming palm oil does not. For someone to eat meat - at least the meat found at supermarkets or restaurants - they have to intend that an animal be killed because given current scientific limitations, this animal's death is (empirically) necessary for their consumption of meat. The success of their goal is reliant upon the animal dying. But when consuming palm oil, we only foresee that animals will be killed. Their deaths are foreseen - but unwanted - side effects. I don't think that this sort of distinction (between intending and foreseeing) probably holds much water, but it is one that several philosophers (particularly common sense morality theorists) rely upon.

@shariwelch8760

6 жыл бұрын

Oh, I think the people clearing the land for palm oil production have every intent of killing the orangutans that stand in their way.

@ThatKid22101

6 жыл бұрын

When clearing a forest you are intending to kill any life that lives there, especially when you intend to build and farm that land. Humans eat meat, they don't intend for the animal suffer, no human wants them to suffer, but we do forsee them suffering. If you for see something bad happening, you should do something to prevent it, IE don't buy palm oil to prevent more orangutans from dying

@kramerthompson990

6 жыл бұрын

Yes, but the people buying the palm oil don't have the intention of killing the orangutans. I'm not saying that this is a good justification, just that it is not obviously a misunderstanding

@kramerthompson990

6 жыл бұрын

The people buying the palm oil don't intend for the orangutans to die, but obviously the people intentionally killing the orangutans do. And although the suffering of an animal may be a mere foreseen side effect, the death of the animal is surely intended as that's the only way people can get meat (unless they somehow have access to cell-cultured meat already). I agree that we are obligated to do what we can to prevent bad things from happening. I don't think the intending/foreseeing distinction offers much in the way of justifying certain actions. I'm just saying Richard isn't making an obvious mistake in using the distinction

@JQEstrada

6 жыл бұрын

This is really a hard one, it involves so much unknown statistics, product origins. I do agree that buying any product that causes harm to animals and the environment is not moral, and we should avoid that. I do also think that trying to encapsulate all of that into the vegan concept is possibly stretching it a little too much and it loses some of its clearness and use. Of course if we know for sure that some palm oil was fruit of the producers killing the orangotangs, that is surely not vegan. But not knowing it, and since it's a vegetable and it is being produced ethically in many places, is it really fair to call the product non vegan by default? If so, I guess we should do the same with at least soy and paper, which both largely come from cruel deforestation and removal of habitats, and thus someone that consumes soy or uses unrecicled paper, due to the reality of it, shouldn't be considered vegan?