Thank you for this. I'm 37 and have never had a girlfriend. Outside of paid interactions, I have kissed one girl one time, and we were both drunk at the time, and that is the sum total of my experience with women. Much of this was caused by extreme anxiety. I was practically phobic when it came to anything to do with dating, sex, and relationships. I slowly overcame that, and now have very little problems with anxiety. I really do not want to associate with the incel community. I interacted with them a lot about 10-15 years ago, but most of them (or at least the most vocal) seemed like they did not represent my feelings on the matter. I certainly don't hate, or even resent, women. I believe they have the right to do what they want, and if they don't want me, then that's their prerogative. My main issue is what this is doing to me mentally. As the years and decades go by, I find myself becoming more and more lonely. Most people do go through dry spells, but comparing their experiences to mine is like comparing the heatwave a couple weeks ago, to the Sahara desert. People who go a year or three without any form of intimacy simply cannot understand how bad this can feel. It's not that you just feel frustrated, or a bit lonely. It's that you feel unlovable. You feel worthless. You feel as if you're missing out on a massive part of life that other people seem to be able to take for granted. And as the years go by, that old adage of 'You'll find someone eventually,' becomes more and more empty and insulting; furthermore, I'm forced to ask the question, 'when?' when I'm 90 and my life is practically over? Or would it have been the week after I've killed myself? Finding someone 'eventually' is no consolation when 'eventually' is too late. I have taken what advice I can. I have improved myself to the point that I have a job I like that supports me, and I rely on no one but myself. I have various hobbies and interests that keep me entertained, and it's not just gaming (in fact I do very little of that), and I have ambitions of becoming a writer, and have made many necessary steps towards that goal. I have overcome my anxiety to be more confident person. I have gone on dating sites and apps, and can be swiping right all day and not get a single match. I can message women with more than just a simple, 'Hi.' My message also shows I've read their profile, but I don't get a single response. I go out with family or friends, and I don't meet many new people. The times I do, I never meet any single women. I've also been given the advice to stop looking and you'll eventually find someone. I don't understand how you can find something without looking for it, and this advice appears to be saying 'Stop looking, and a lady will fall into your lap.' Though I only really took this advice by default because I essentially gave up. Now, I'm in a position where most things about my life are good, but there is this empty space that cannot be filled by porn or escorts or any amount of platitudes such as 'you don't need a woman to be happy.' My life is now looking like it will be a very lonely one, and though I have no plans to end it at any point, I cannot say how badly this will affect me in the future.

@ladypinkymoe7574

2 жыл бұрын

Hey. I read your comment, and it moved me. I can't explain why. I am not in the same boat as you, but I feel your loneliness and can recognise it deeply. It's harder to meet new people later in life, I have found. I am 28 and feel so lonely a lot of the time. As you get older, people begin to settle into their own lives with their own families and so are less inclined to be out making new friends, whereas when you're young you're part of all sorts of programs and events and you go to college and uni and school and are constantly mixing with a wide variety of people, making it more likely to meet someone romantically and develop a relationship. I guess when you have spent your younger years being extremely phobic of sex and relationships (a fear of rejection maybe?), you miss out on a lot of opportunity to develop a relationship or have friendships. Then when you get older it's just that much harder. I do think staying in one place is also probably a factor in not getting anywhere. I think travelling, especially in a group, exploring, taking volunteer opportunities abroad, or just in other counties/states/etc (no sure where you live) will help you meet new people and broaden your horizons. I honestly think it's about meeting new people and being introduced to other people and it just snowballs from there. Like you say you have ambitions of being a writer - there are these cool writers retreats and writing agency events and festivals you can go to, meet other writers and like-minded people. I know my advice probably sounds stupid, as I am not in your shoes and cannot possibly relate to or understand what you are going through, but I am writing this because something in your words struck a chord within me and I just wanted you to know that you may feel lonely, but you're never truly alone. I hope you manage to find your happiness and peace.

@aranisles8292

2 жыл бұрын

My heart goes out to you, man! FWIW, I'll say the 'stop looking' advice doesn't really mean stop looking. It means stop seeming as if you are looking. You have to be out there, exposed socially, but just not giving a damn, just being who you are regardless. That's why dating apps are the absolute last place certain guys, probably most average guys, should be. It's not a place where the 'dance' can happen naturally or at all. As you know. Best of luck.

@Zeburaman2005

2 жыл бұрын

I know how you feel, I felt the same way until I was on the verge of turning 31. I had my first kiss and relationship at that age. I used a dating app, but that was 10 years ago and things have grown even more difficult since. I have been through a number of more or less short relationships since then, and what they taught me is that the two things you need the most to attract someone are, at least, to project confidence and to know whom might be receptive to your charm. Once you’ve got those two things down, then finding someone will stop being that much of an issue, but you really have to work on your fear of being unlovable. That’s what worked with me and I even managed to end up in a stable relationship, and still there are parts of my life that are far more messy then yours. I wish you good luck, I am sure you can do it.

@radicalcartoons2766

2 жыл бұрын

Guess what, mate, you are worth far more as a human being than just your sex drive. I was an " incel" woman for decades and fell into abusive short term relationships because of alcoholism. I finally cleaned up and found my "Mr Right" at the age of 50. So hang in there, the old saying " there's somebody out there for everyone " really is true. And if you find your Mrs Right who doesn't want her own kids, what is wrong with adopting?

@JRCSalter

2 жыл бұрын

@@vivienneb6199 Not likely. I practically consider any woman I meet as potential. Problem is, I don't meet that many single women.

There are more incels out there than you think. Those people usually not only have no sex, but also have no friends. So, they are not people you hang out with. Those quiet introverts at workplace that you don’t pay attention to - imagine them flirting with girls. Can’t imagine? That’s it.

@konmoe121

2 жыл бұрын

Good comment, but double thumbs up for the name😁

@bobanrajowic

2 жыл бұрын

@@konmoe121 it’s Poland, my friend 😂

@jjroseknows777

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobanrajowic Oh my gosh, that's not your real last name is it??!!

@songsthatarecatchy

2 жыл бұрын

My best friend is an incel. He hates it. But he won't go out and try to even talk to a woman.

@daniel.lopresti

2 жыл бұрын

Hey, I remember you from the war! (the second one)

As for the young male syndrom, we here in Germany are importing Millions of young male syndrom from all over the world. I am pretty sure, that will all work out very good. What could possibly go wrong.

@taras3702

Жыл бұрын

Your people being slaughtered to the last will be the result if you don't remove them from your midst, and the ones who flooded your land with them.

@cyclist68

Жыл бұрын

Ditto the UK

@frankgriffin6293

Жыл бұрын

I remember telling my brother's German wife that bringing in a million single men is different than bringing in families. She denied the problem and then the rapes started happening. Leftists are slow to wise up.

@mrconfusion87

6 ай бұрын

And most of those asylum seekers generally do not know and do NOT give a shit about political correctness and woke stuff! 🤣🤣🤣

@taraswertelecki3786

2 ай бұрын

The Tribe imported them for the purpose of white genocide.

I think the fact that incels are ~30% autistic is a crucial piece of information that was glossed over .This is a stark overrepresentation compared to 2% in general population. Many incels have extreme difficulty with *all* interpersonal relationships. "Normal" people like the people in this video might not fully appreciate how much more difficult it may be for many incels to actually "go out" or "just say hi" etc. Many incels fail to make a single (non-sexual) friend, for instance. "Normal" people try to empathize and this leads them to an immense failure of understanding, socialization in all contexts is simply a completely different ballgame for autistic people.

@lordofgingers

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed. Many in the blackpill space sleep on neurodivergence vs neurotypicality

@markgado8782

2 жыл бұрын

I missed that. Cheers for picking up on it for me.. is a very interesting and potentially telling stat.

@jayjaydubful

2 жыл бұрын

Controversial take: perhaps it fulfils an evolutionary purpose that they are not sexually successful- screens out the autism genes reproducing. But what explains the increase in autistic population? Is it environmental or is it becoming easier for them to date/reproduce?

@lordofgingers

2 жыл бұрын

@@jayjaydubful the increase in the population initially would imply that either 1)There may have been some benefit OR 2)The negative nature if the trait was not sufficiently bad to be selected out . Aka was not sufficiently deleterious But as our environment changed, that may have also had an impact sure.

@DestroManiak

2 жыл бұрын

@@jayjaydubful You owe technology to autists.

This guy is absolutely fantastic. One thing that didn't come up that I think should be considered more - you only have to succeed once. The fact that some other guy has a lot of notches on the bedpost doesn't really matter. It would be better for everyone if we stopped viewing random hookups as trophies and gave more status to being in a strong, stable relationship - especially among younger people.

@SuhaibZafar

2 жыл бұрын

Agree.

@keyontedollison8547

2 жыл бұрын

Totally agree

@nickbrennan3389

2 жыл бұрын

Yes...and more status to traditional moms, raising kids is probably the most important and meaningful job in the world.

@stevenwilliams1805

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. I long found the admiration young men tent to have for the womanizer a little confusing, even gross. I used to hold to the adage of just "wait until the right one comes along." That however is bs advice to pair with "wait until marriage."

@macheifach

2 жыл бұрын

Disagree. Many women and man have very high sex drives, it's not a notch on the bedpost, it's living your sexual desires. For some people it's part of their inner fulfillment. With every choice you do in live, you'll have to endure a compromise.

I'm not an incel, I'm involuntarily single though. I always had control of myself, so not having sex has never been a problem for me, it's the fact I'm not married and having kids that's more of a problem. I'm hoping moving from the west coast could change my chances, because I was shocked to find that every woman I dated on the west coast didn't want to have a family. They were fine with dating me, having a relationship (one or two of them would have probably been fine with getting married), but they didn't want kids, so I broke up with them, because I'm not going to be trapped in a voluntarily childless marriage, I would rather be single.

@humansarenature

2 жыл бұрын

I moved away from the west coast after experiencing several psychologically controlling relationships with “woke”/lefty men, who would figure out what I wanted and valued, pretend to offer that, and then mess with my mind, and shame me for wanting to have a family. I think there are many single men and women out there looking for the real thing, and that’s part of why it’s so infuriating to see free speech shut down on social media-we’re not able to find each other very easily.

@songsthatarecatchy

2 жыл бұрын

Not childless if you don't want children Childfree.

@songsthatarecatchy

2 жыл бұрын

I wish you luck in finding a mate. Look in the Christian community. They always want to be baby incubators for life. Lmao 😁 🤣

@DiMacky24

2 жыл бұрын

@@humansarenature I straight up know two lefty guys in California who I worked with that spent years gaslighting their wife/girlfriend that "next year would be the time to have kids" until they got to their late 30s and could not have kids anymore. The guys didn't even think they would be bad fathers or anything, they just didn't want to have to give up any time/hobbies/space to kids, even though they were making six figures and owned large homes.

@keyontedollison8547

2 жыл бұрын

Back in the day it's was no video games and technology , media but now kids can have accees to social media, internet , drones, tablet, and phones now.

This guy has an ability to balance the nuance of the complexity of this issue perfectly. Well done mate.

@TheRealSamPreece

2 жыл бұрын

@William Tell A person that is secure enough to care about others.

@TheRealSamPreece

2 жыл бұрын

@William Tell See what I did there?

@prschuster

Жыл бұрын

That king of nuance is pretty rare. I put "incel" into my search engine, and get a lot of hateful articles maligning incels as misogynists.

I'd never thought of myself as being an incel but that initial description - Black pill really hit home. I'm 46 never had any kind of romantic coupling, never kissed a girl (apart from from when i've paid for such things). I went on a date once but it turned out it was for a bet she had to go out with ugliest guy she could find. I've never felt like someone that a female would want. I was born with a severe club foot which after several operations meant i can walk but my foot does not look like the other, the leg was shorter so gave a limp and i was bullied at school because of it. At age 10 at secondary school i had to have false teeth as not all my new teeth were to come through, so the was something else that was noticed by my classmates (and girls). At 14 i had my first serious thought of suicide, after that i've always had that in the background. I tried dating apps but only time any talked to me was because they'd pressed the wrong button, i tried counselling - she told me to approach a woman when she was out shopping and talk to her, even i know how creepy that would be. I've seen all my friends partner up, marry and have kids- i've been on anti-depressants now for 8 years - am morbidly obese but when i went to the gym i found out anti-depressants can really hinder weight loss. Like an earlier poster said i feel worthless. For years i heard the 'you'll find someone eventually' but now that has turned into 'you don't want a woman' from my male friends who are in relationships. I see everyone else in relationships and have always just assumed i am defective in some way that means i don't deserve any thing like that, i fantasise about having a wedding ceremony, being in love and being able to spend time with someone who wants to be around me - but its all just imaginary. All the women i've ever liked only 'liked me as a friend' I had thought to my self that at least my best friend of 20 years and i would grow old together just being two grumpy old sods. She died in Nov 21 due to illness - and now i'm really lost. I don't know how effect the change to find someone, I know i'm now in the age bracket for the most likely to kill themselves and honestly the only thing that is keeping me here is going home to help with my elderly parents - other than that i could vanish tomorrow and i don't think many would notice. i don't want to - i want to love and be loved - but if this is all it will ever be then its maybe best

@Neognostic-pk5wu

Жыл бұрын

Your tale really touched a nerve. I'm sorry you've had to endure all that much loneliness your life.

@TheBazino

11 ай бұрын

I'm 42 and my situation is pretty similar to yours. The only two things keeping me around are my parents, who I could not do this to, and the fact that I'm paranoid of it not working and me being a vegetable for decades instead of just gone.

@urthboundmisfit

10 ай бұрын

But you sure felt entitled to rent a woman's body. No wonder no one will screw you.

@Rightbackatchya

10 ай бұрын

I genuinely feel for what you have gone and are going through. Are there things in your life that you look forward to that are a result of your action? Cooking, woodwork, programming? We are social animals and place great priority on forming connections. It is very hard to ignore that drive, but it’s important to love yourself first and give yourself a reason to have pride in yourself. I personally think it’s great to have an insular hobby you can be proud of.

@georgeharvey3062

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing your story. I have no idea what I can say to help you other than your story touched my heart. I pray you can be satisfied with the fact I think you’re a very nice and honest person.

Things that you guys didn’t mention: 1. Growing obesity: both male and female-and thus decreasing attractiveness. 2. Cultural shift: The culture is pushing both boys and girls in directions that are less appealing to the opposite sex. 3. Growing fatherlessness: 70+% of US black kids are now born out of wedlock, with fewer male role models. 4. Satisficers vs. Maximizers: Larger candidate pools (e.g. larger cities, online dating) mean that maximizers (1/3 of the population) will invest more time in the mate search. 5. Taxation and redistribution: Less attractive males could work harder to make money and become marriageable, but their income is increasingly taxed away (and some is transferred to single-mother families, a.k.a. tax cuckoldry). We’re facing a population crash.

@gwho

11 ай бұрын

By "culture" you mean work propaganda and bullying and canceling

@mrsmerily

11 күн бұрын

hi incel, nice to meet you. I have watched some red pill stuff so really easy to point out that you are red pill (means you think you are 9, actully 3 and angry and thinking you wont get 5 although you think you should easily get 8). Really slippery slope and if you are not yet, you soon will be. Self fufilling...

It is sad that this phenom is a growing problem among men so young. It has been going this way a long time in Japan, there the name is not Incels, but Hikikomori and is characterised by pulling inward and shying away from society and the outside world completely. Feelings of failure for familial expectations, career capability, and lack of desire for relationships/marriage are at play there too. And of course in Japan, the suicide rates are off the chart. For a while there have been obvious trending patterns in the UK that follow Japan. Spiralling costs of property, increased levels of personal debt, job security and prospects slowly declining.... these are all factors that negatively effect someone's outlook, particularly if they're disadvantaged in one facet or another that would maybe help you succeed. Add to this 2 years of lockdown and it would not be surprising to find this accelerated the problem for young men.

@jkg7661

2 жыл бұрын

Philip Zimbardo mentions hikikomori alongside NEET in his "The New Shyness" article from 2016 for psychologytoday.

@mrconfusion87

6 ай бұрын

It has already reach North American shores as well...

As a black woman who dwells in the sectors of anti-wokeness, self-development, evolutionary psychology, etc., I apply these ideas to the black community. Most people know about the crime rate, out of wedlock birth statistics, unemployment rates, etc. These statistics make most inner cities uninhabitable, but the community is not this way because of our skin color, but because we don't adhere to the same norms as other groups. During the interview, someone said most men can't victim their way out of things, but specifically in the black community, men can. Black girls and women are indoctrinated from birth to coddle black men and put them on pedestals because they deal with racism and the world outside of the community will beat them down. Now we have a community of men who degrade their women in rap for money, walk away from their children and the women get blamed for their abandonment, and they kill each other with the same regard of killing an insect while innocent bystanders catch stray bullets, and everyone looks the other way. Nobody in the black community expects men to be accountable or responsible for anything and that is why it is now a nightmare. Take it from someone who has experienced it my entire life, these incels need to be brought into the fold and encouraged to be responsible for their own lives or things will become unbelievably problematic.

@thesub-5man725

2 жыл бұрын

Utter Rubbish You are Projecting Tyrone and Dusty dudes, which is relatively small portion of the population, to all of black men. None of the Black Men I know have, including me, have ever been put on pedestal.

@crazytown1146

2 жыл бұрын

Hi there,black man here. I am tired of this rhetoric of 'men being coddled'. I am responsible, have no children and ai have worked legally my entire adult life. I have not lived at home since I was 19. My single mother lost us our home as she refused to cooperate with local authorities. She has no income and we were forced to live in poverty mostly due to her decisions. I have zero sympathy for single mothers. They take one of the most important decisions a woman can make (who will be the father) and waste it on men who clearly are going in one direction down. But hey they're 'G's though right? Women make bad decisions them blame all men (including the one's they overlook) for the consequences of their decisions. Black men either have to be Uber successful or thugs to get a woman who is not obese. It appears to be the same story across all races of women. The truth is most women fund stable men boring which is why they have these issues. Single mothers (outside of rape of course) deserve no sympathy. My mother even told me I was conceived thru rape but my younger sister was conceived thru love (same father). Maybe you have an explanation for this because I don't!

@nowwhat1434

2 жыл бұрын

Accurate. And that’s why it pisses me off that black men repeat white incel stuff. They have no clue what white men are going through. I think black men feel they are better than black women and are bitter about being “stuck with us” so they don’t want to put in any effort cos they feel we aren’t worth it and don’t deserve it. I also think they resent us for making life and sex easy for them because it’s emasculating (even though they could choose to do better). It wasn’t surprising that his work in the UK showed that men were upset that white women didn’t want them lolol

@insaneweasel1

2 жыл бұрын

It's true, skin color has far less of an impact than culture. Unfortunately, ingrained cultural inertia means that change is often hard to accomplish.

@stevenwilliams1805

2 жыл бұрын

@@crazytown1146 your comment as well as the original post has many points worth considering. I suspect not as many blacks subscribe to the victim narrative, as the media often peddles but, I'm certain there is a fair number who does. Some of this is undoubtedly comes from within the community as well as from the outside. I say this because as a native American I occasionally get mistaken for Hispanic and, sometimes it's accompanied by a huge animosity for not acting Mexican enough. This never happened when I was young but has been happening with increasing frequency over the last ten to fifteen years. I've been told not to be ashamed of their culture. And I've been told I act too white. I even had a death threat over it because he refused to believe I was anything but a "wet back" like him. That was his words to describe himself and it's made me hesitant to be around any numbers of Hispanic people because I'm not certain one might not try and carry out that threat someday. And I've seen how some black people display this same animosity for one's who don't act black enough, though they tend to use a different word. I suspect there is nothing "white allies" can do to help with these internal tensions and most what the "progressive liberals" are doing is only making it worse. I don't know that any of this matters but, this whole comment section and video is more than I can process right now. I need to sleep. 🖖

let's please not let "can we just double-click on that" become a thing.

@daniel.lopresti

2 жыл бұрын

Haha, I thought the same. At least he didn't say "swipe right", which would've been a nice pun, considering the topic at hand.

@LadyMarigoldWithers

2 жыл бұрын

😂 I hesitated on that too

@manfrombritain6816

2 жыл бұрын

lol i actually kinda liked that xD

@ancientfuture9690

2 жыл бұрын

It defo will 😂

@georgebailey8179

2 жыл бұрын

I thought he meant "double back" but made a mistake. At least I hope it was a mistake rather than a new phrase.

I am just happy that these talks are happening at all. I remember growing up that these topics were impossible to explore in an honest way because most of entertainment is what you would call "blue pilled" in the sense that they not only don't care about men's issues but they will also be completely oblivious that a problem even exists.

@rwatertree

2 жыл бұрын

Ironically their advice for helping incels was identical to the bluepilled advice I was given as a teenager. It isn't really designed to help but to encourage men to be beta providers waiting for women at the end of their 'exciting' twenties.

@maskedbadass6802

2 жыл бұрын

@@rwatertree You're not wrong. I'm just optimistic because I remember a time when nobody had even heard of terms like "beta provider" so I figure the manosphere must be growing despite all the pushback.

@redsnflr

Жыл бұрын

because SJW's, like women generally, only look & consider the men at the top when they describe "toxic masculinity", completely disregarding all the male peasants, laborers and soldiers who built society throughout history and were the true victims of the "masculinity" they describe.

@cristiancastaneda1336

Жыл бұрын

@@rwatertree ​ beta provider is a crazy way to say generous and loving partner. The stats don’t lie. Try to work on being so scared of being rejected, stop expecting it to happen just because you think you deserve it. Earn it bro. Also unironically saying manosphere is one of the big reasons you’re not getting any bro.

@marcinzok8972

10 ай бұрын

@@cristiancastaneda1336 So you support ho^^es? High body count as statistics shows result in cheating and dead bedroom - so better to be alone.

One of your best guys. I've actually made comments quite critical of your understanding of manosphere stuff, but it seems with your curious and open minds, you are really getting it.

@zeno2501

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. Triggernometry's understanding of the difficulties modern men face is expanding. It's good to see them become more sympathetic. But it's also good that they still don't offer men false hope. At the end of the day, you can only help yourself, no one is going to do it for you. Get to work or accept the consequences of choosing not to.

@impguardwarhamer

Жыл бұрын

The important thing for me isn't that everyone agrees with incels, but to atleast try to understand their plight instead of just ignorantly writing them off as lazy misogynists who are there because of their own doing.

After the first ten years of our marriage, during which my husband put me all the way through school and advanced training, I worked full time and my husband has mostly worked part time until our current almost-retirement. We have successfully raised a family & stayed together. (And he isn’t even taller or older than I am. He’s just adorable.)

It concerns me when disenfranchised, frustrated people attach themselves to any group-label/identity. I see no value in treating them so harshly versus making an effort to better understand their plight

@MrJREllman

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed, and in particular when, according to today's guest, it's a small minority of them that are engaging in anti-social behaviour.

@Trecesolotienesdos

2 жыл бұрын

what plight? that they don't get dates? boo hoo.

@johnwilliams655

2 жыл бұрын

Living solely to be exploited while others keep the fruits of their labor is their plight. Monogamy was created to bribe slaves with women in order to keep them passive. The mostly false belief that their children would have it better than they did was essential for sanity of slaves. With the polygamous slave system today, slaves don’t even have that. If SHTF, it wouldn’t surprise me if the ruling class did a 180 and offered to bring monogamy back but by that stage most men will be in Nat Turner mode and won’t listen.

@SK-hj8ss

2 жыл бұрын

Agree. 100%. The more we demonize and alienate and ostracize them the worse it's going to get. Most of these mass shooters are isolated, angry, aggrieved and lonely men. Pushing them further into the margins by diminishing them even further is only going to compound the problem. We do so at our peril.

@LaGueraGTO

2 жыл бұрын

@@Trecesolotienesdos that they don’t get a family. That’s nothing to laugh at, it’s a big deal and what gives most people purpose and meaning in life.

It's very interesting that in Denmark about 15-20 years ago, one of the more stable partnership forms were high educated woman+ skilled worker. They respected each others competences. I know quite a few of those combos and they are still going strong.

@AmanitaWoodrose

Жыл бұрын

Interesting! Do you have a link to more info? Thanks!

@kirstenmadsen2628

Жыл бұрын

@@AmanitaWoodrose sadly only in danish, but you could check University of Copenhagen their sociology department. A lot of good research in Scandinavia sadly don't reach beond the language barrier 🤷

The 80/20 rule is becoming the 90 /10 rule

@JoseCruz-ce2vp

3 ай бұрын

And will inevitably become the 95/5 rule

@sauter1

Ай бұрын

It already is 95/5. Data collected by dating apps like Tinder show that women on average will only agree to match with about 4.5% of all men on the app.

@mickdavies5647

Ай бұрын

Technically, it is 64/4. It's actually just a double application of the pareto principle (the next level down is where you get to the '1 percenters' that get the top 50%)

i wouldn't label myself Incel, however I am 37 and have been on one date and have never had a girlfriend. I don't think the causes of the incel phenomena is the same for every male. I have doubts about the victimhood theory. I myself don't use online dating because i find posting information about myself for the world to see distasteful. Paraphrasing Konstantin, playing the victim for men gets you nowhere, and all men are aware of this. I doubt a single man has ever gotten sex for being weak. For most guys not being successful with women is shameful, so I don't see guys using it to play the victim. i am aware i do have depression and social anxiety. If I have any suggestion for guys, some of whom i am sure learned this already. Learn to be happy alone.

@deldarma4509

2 жыл бұрын

Paying a woman so she'll dissassociate enough to let you fuck her IS not a positive experience. Having sex with someone who hates you will not make you happy or fullfilled. And it makes you even weaker and women will rightly find you répulsive for it. Also you have NO way of knowing if the women are traficked. And then it's rape.

@viviennedunbar3374

Жыл бұрын

Paying for sex sounds like it would just increase depression. A woman who has no interest in you whatsoever and would never have sex with you otherwise, is desperate enough to accept money for her body to be used.

@johnbale2090

Жыл бұрын

You’re an incel deal with it

@graduke1

Жыл бұрын

Some guys are ashamed of their lack of experience especially in our sex obsessed western societies so getting some experience, even if not ideal with a partner. It might increase confidence for a nervous guy just to actually do it!! I think my first sexual experience was in Thailand and one was bad and another really good ( not too far from a girlfriend experience) it definitely helped me. It made me realise sex isn't like doing a Rubix cube....It isn't rocket science. I suppose I was quite attractive, young guy so I could delude myself 😅

@rosemarybockner

3 ай бұрын

don't worry, many many many beautiful talented incredible women choose to be ALONE and HAPPY because of horrible experiences in relationships, or just their temporment or whatever it is. women are alone too, even hot ones. why is everyone so shallow.

There's a tendency in young people to use mental illness as a block to progress rather than something that needs to be overcome. On one hand, it's positive that mental illness is more openly discussed but having worked in Mental Health, experienced mental health issues and noticed online trends, it seems like wearing your condition like a badge and settling in dysfunction rather than seeking out ways to manage your mental illness and growing in resilience/confidence in order to cope with life seems to be the norm.

@llIlIlllII

2 жыл бұрын

Mental health "Profesionals" encourage people to see their feelings this way. Never mind that people get diagnosed over Nora feelings brought on by life problems. Thus happened to me and I can say, it ruined my life. I kept seeking help, kept getting brushed off because no one wanted to explore the problems, they just wanted to diagnose me. Anxiety, social anxiety, depression. So explain why ay 29, now that the shyness and low self esteem have dried up........ I'm FINE. Only because of everything, I'm worse off than before.

@firebirdstark

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it seems to be used as a crutch and a status symbol in some circles. Both are very unproductive and need to be used as you pointed out: a hurdle to overcome

@desireesmith862

2 жыл бұрын

After reading this all I can say is,”yes.” I’ve noticed this happening. I even think some people do it on purpose.

@impguardwarhamer

Жыл бұрын

with incels it's a mixed bag. On the one hand yes, using mental health as a shield stops you from getting better, but on the other there are genuine societal issues incels face and it's often not that simple.

I remember a meme with photos of the r/incels and r/inceltears meetups. Incel tears is a subreddit dedicated entirely to ridiculing and making fun of incels. Anyway, the incel meetup was comprised of entirely reasonably attractive, seemingly well-adjusted individuals. Whereas the incel tears meetup was comprised entirely of obese, unattractive people. The fact that they center themselves around ridiculing the misery of others online makes them even less so.

@iwantthe80sback59

Жыл бұрын

Do yourself a favour; STAY OFF REDDIT.

It’s great to hear someone speaking about this from a place of compassion.

@221Dw

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely, I never understood the vilification of incels. They're people who's suffer misfortune, not some kind of sinister creature. I wonder where this comes from. Perhaps it's some sort of psychological rationalisation which gets them off the hook in regard to not having to care about others they view as beneath them.

@stevenwilliams1805

2 жыл бұрын

@@221Dw the lamestream media is the source of most of the vilification. "If it bleeds, it leads."

@Icipher353

2 жыл бұрын

@@221Dw Incels are perceived to be predominantly white (even though William's research says otherwise) and white people (especially men) are the one group in society that it is still okay to vilify and ostracize.

@manfrombritain6816

2 жыл бұрын

@@221Dw what's not to understand? women are disgusted by losers, and men want to distance themselves from losers. society has no use for loser men, so it shames them as much as possible. whereas society ALWAYS has a use for women no matter how much of a loser they are, hence they get sympathy

@Trecesolotienesdos

2 жыл бұрын

why do they deserve compassion? You have compassion towards people who want to kill others based on envy?

A friend of mine came to my wedding; she was approaching 40 and she told me she was taking time off to revaluate he options, her life and what she wanted, where to live etc. A key thing she said was she was asking herself if it was worth devoting her life to a company that probably didn’t care about her welfare. I formed a theory that when you’re overworking and over-striding in your job you’re unable to see how diminished your life is, or even what you want long term, because you are stuck in the short term fix of making it to closing time - locking into work mode from 5am to 7 at night with little life outside of it. I believe women (and some men) have the opposite burden of too much purpose in the work context. They get so consumed as career people they don’t realise what they’re sacrificing until it’s too late and the ship has sailed for them, and all because they were told the importance of self empowerment through achieving independence from men. It’s certainly not a balanced focus in life.

@rosemarybockner

3 ай бұрын

i think people are tryiing to make a living dude, have you noticed inflation?

@nikeisagreekgoddess4135

29 күн бұрын

I can't blame them. Not knowing what you are sacrificing when you choose something is just part of the human condition. It happens all the time and I'd say most of the time we just don't know fully what we are doing. To choose something is to reject all the other options, whether or not you are aware of it. This is why to live is to choose between regretting your choices at a later point in life or being paralyzed by analysis. Having options is extremely hazardous and it seems to me those older single and childless women will be an example of that. Despite the ones who are successful and will have ways to mitigate their choices, most women aren't there. My guess is that our gynocentrism will figure out something to soften the hit for them. So they just never really pay for anything lol

One more thing. For every guy who explodes and vents his frustrations outward you will have hundreds who "self-delete" and thousands who just let themselves go completely or even engage in self-harming behavior of some variety.

Physical fitness is a way that someone can tell that someone else isn’t lazy. It is difficult to be fit, so if someone can be disciplined enough to maintain their body at a high level, they are more likely to be able to apply that discipline to having a healthy and happy family. Having kids isn’t easy, but it’s less exhausting if you don’t get easily exhausted…

@jzen1455

2 жыл бұрын

I'm an exception to that. I work out constantly but am very lazy and undisciplined in every other aspect of my life.

@keyontedollison8547

2 жыл бұрын

I am 18 years old I doesn't have a girlfriend yet

@Tara-zq3il

2 жыл бұрын

I think the opposite men who are in the Gym all the time are self-absorbed. Studies have been done that say women prefer Dad bodies.I.E normal.I believe that's true.

@jzen1455

2 жыл бұрын

@@Tara-zq3il Studies about women's preferences in physiques are all over the place. Wording in the question plays a major role in the outcomes of the studies. Also, sample sizes tend to be small and unrandom. Regardless of what majority women think, I prefer being muscular over having a dad bod. My ego would hate myself if I was Mr. Doughboy.

@ThursonJames

2 жыл бұрын

@@jzen1455 I didn’t get my shit together until after having kids. Get your shit together - you are already part way there, just need a reason…

Hard disagree on the idea of waiting until you're 30 or older for men. As you age, experience becomes far more important as a factor in what people seek for a relationship. If you lack experience, it becomes obvious and makes you far less of a desirable partner. It's why statistically divorced men fare better in dating than long term single men. And divorced men outnumber single men once you reach your late 30s.

@louisep9623

2 жыл бұрын

As a single 38 year old female who has been single for a fair few years now I can actually agree with his comment about waiting until your 30s. Personally I would not mind an inexperienced partner aa it would make me more comfortable to know that they haven't been as much of a risk than men who has slept with God knows how many women and nowadays I think the risk of sexual diseases are way to common.

@tgheretford

2 жыл бұрын

@@louisep9623 I suspect you may be the exception that proves the rule. From studies that have been done, in general, experience is desired in a partner not because of the danger of STD's but it's a sign that other women find that man attractive as a potential mate. It's known as pre-selection. It's why you hear of men who get a girlfriend say that they get more attention from women when they are partnered. It's also why I mentioned that divorced men have better outcomes in dating compared to long term single men.

@DiMacky24

2 жыл бұрын

@@tgheretford divorced men are also much more likely to get divorced/breakup. Yes they get a girlfriend easier, but their relationships are less likely to last than men who are not divorced and have fewer partners.

@keyontedollison8547

2 жыл бұрын

Give women opportunities to have a job too.

@louisep9623

2 жыл бұрын

@@tgheretford I'd agree I'm definitely the exception i seem to be so far from normal.

I'm 50. I remember being told aged 8 by a teacher that men were sexist because they couldn't accept a partner who earned more than them. Now we learn that just 5% of women will accept a 'house-husband', i.e., a man who earns less than them. Generations of piling criticism on men (and even young boys), while absolving women of any responsibility seems to have created an imbalance.

@MrJREllman

2 жыл бұрын

@Jane B Robbins I suppose not. But I don't think I'm in a minority of men who have been told that our preferences are sexist. I doubt that happens to women. Or does it?

@juliantheapostate8295

2 жыл бұрын

@Jane B Robbins No, but anything which involves government interference should be tested for sexism, both ways, not just one way

@johnwilliams655

2 жыл бұрын

Got to love how they refuse to see any man under 6f as a person but then say “Men refuse to date women taller than them”

@tomcoop9750

2 жыл бұрын

Yes! Pharrell Warren (who wrote The Boy Crisis) said a heartbreaking statistic. A survey done around the 1950s showed that most men would prefer to be at home with their children rather than at work. They were sacrificing their happiness for their families. To say being at work was a privilege was a lie.

@MrJREllman

2 жыл бұрын

@@tomcoop9750 In those days, most men had careers to support their families. They put up with a lifetime of soulless drudgery for it. 'Liberated' women have careers for themselves.

William Costello is so fascinating. Articulates his points so well and a very digestible way. Loved this podcast and his content thus far.

Amazing interview. William is a great guy. Looking forward to seeing future research on this topic from him.

You guys have been just doing some excellent interviews the past few weeks. Love this channel!

I was an incel for about 20 years. The name didn't exist then. I didn't hate women, just came to the conclusion that finding a partner was looking increasingly unlikely. It does lead to unhappiness because most of us would like a meaningful and fulfilling relationship with someone we find attractive. The main problem is that society is inherently dishonest about how attraction works. All that blue pill rubbish in films where the good guy wins. Things have accelerated in the last few years ever since Instagram and Tinder took hold. I used to be pretty open minded about feminism too, but a lot of it is clearly toxic towards men, to the detriment of both men and women.

@metallboy25

Ай бұрын

You see in this feminist world if anyone criticizes vvоmеn its immediately is labelled as hate.

@lorrainesmith.4995

27 күн бұрын

Normal... I never understand why men file women under the same letter.." Stacy"". Not all women are hot or good looking or want kids or are super feminine.. its insane. But they label all women in the same box. And they wonder why we label them as stupid and creepy. Even Pastors in Churches label ALL women in the same box. FEMALE...its so stupid. None Christian women are the same as Christian women???? Its so sick.

Well, it's refreshing to listen to a researcher on this topic who respects those guys as human beings, instead of basically orcs, who are inherently savages!

As someone who falls in the incel category based on my experience I just want to say we are all different. I don't walk around saying I am an incel, but after finding the group and understanding the similar feelings I had with other I formed my perspective. Sure I had negative experiences with women, but I had one that lasted for 8 years and it was a blessed relationship. I am now 33 and I see the complexities the dating world is. It's its own beast and you have to gather as much info as possible to make it through. Haven't dated since 2015 and I don't blame women or the dating scene itself for my own failings. If I want to try I can give it a go. Rejection, preferences, and bad apples are there and it's up to the individual to make it work. There are positive incels or just people who just had the difficult end of the stick living a normal life and just going with the flow of life. The bad apples who are these deep-state incels are the ones the media love to chastise. I am just a man and I go my own way. If I meet someone I am open, but if I don't I can make the best life for myself as I am capable of. Just live and don't label yourself. Just be the best man you can be.

@user-zf5bj1nn1r

Жыл бұрын

The guy is clearly a shill. He's full of bullshit. Talking about hot air... Especially the vikings were the period incels had me laughing

@yekaterinaorlova

Жыл бұрын

great comment! very wise I think. I can totally relate to your words.

@ozzieg2415

Жыл бұрын

Very true.

“Be better” in an age of “Fatphobia”? What the prize? A Lizzo with kids covered in tattoos with the ability to leave at anytime with your kid and half your money? Most guys just want what their grandparents had…and that dream is dead.

@benfroughi

2 жыл бұрын

Worth pointing out that if you do manage to "be better" despite everything, and get the lizzos chasing you for long enough, they might lose enough weight to be attractive to you.

@Riosgirl98

2 жыл бұрын

Go East and find yourself a trad lady

@nowwhat1434

2 жыл бұрын

It’s for men who want the women who are available. If the women are unacceptable to you then you should remain single.

@soacker25

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent comment! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

@Locke350

2 жыл бұрын

@@nowwhat1434 Another way of saying “woman can be as fat, lazy, not cook or clean as much as she wants and if you want to have a bare minimum standard then you are a bigot!”

Great interview, also love that he had a fact sheet with him to make sure he got % numbers correct.

I hate the term incel. If a woman has a rough time dating and decides to take a break she’s a ‘survivor’ and ‘so brave’. If a man does the same he’s a dirty little incel and deserves to be ridiculed. Just another example of the gender bias in our societies.

@juliantheapostate8295

2 жыл бұрын

That's because without men producing more than they consume, there IS no society. Hardly fair, or 'equitable' but it's the way it is and this will NEVER change no matter how much we pretend women are equal

@rwatertree

2 жыл бұрын

Get over it. Involuntary celebacy is an accurate descriptor. The are few such women but many more such men.

@Thepoweoftheriffcompelsme

2 жыл бұрын

@@rwatertree 7 billion people on the planet… few such women is a massive understatement. So how many women do you think are voluntarily single? 10… 15? Give me a break, there’ll be plenty. Regardless, it’s not a good thing to happen to a person most of the time so there being less of one than the other doesn’t really make a difference to how the problem should be viewed or handled.

@drewyetti

2 жыл бұрын

You are not wrong as men are seen as human *doings* whereas women are seen as human *beings.* Therefore women are given support and sympathy while men are left with responsibility and accountability.

@doloreshaze10

2 жыл бұрын

I thought incels weren't "deciding to take a break". That's the point

One of the best interviews I've listened to this year

@mikelisteral7863

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/mGarzsiykraYfbQ.html best mgtow quotes

I'm an incel, a well known one online, and you want to know why? It's not because I "hate women" it's because I'm ugly, really ugly. Blupillers constantly tell me it's my personality but that's bullshit. I once talked to a girl online for 4 months through voice chats and she was crazy about me, she loved my personality. Couldn't get enough of me. But once we met irl and she saw my face and height - she ghosted me. Literally blocked me on every possible platform. There is no personality to make up for your face and height. Unless I get surgeries to fix my height and face, I am going to die alone.

@cxjar5890

2 жыл бұрын

Why not marry a blind woman then and stop with the excuses.

@MR-el2ym

2 жыл бұрын

@@cxjar5890 are you for real?! Just find a blind women? Not realistic at all.

@thisisntevenmyfinalform2025

2 жыл бұрын

@@MR-el2ym I think hes just trolling lol

@thisisntevenmyfinalform2025

2 жыл бұрын

Yea, thats how i became blackpilled women never liked me and i never knew why but it turns out its because im a 5'6 big lip large forehead ugly incel

@tailethman2276

2 жыл бұрын

@@MR-el2ym These dudes crack me up. There was another guy unironically telling some dude struggling to get a gf to find a homeless drug addict woman and rehabilitate her. That's how low they expect you to go, like Konstantin said, you cannot even try and be a victim as a dude, just eat your bowl of sh*t and shut the f*ck up, hilarious.

Ever since his trip to America Konstantin cannot stop saying “man”. So cute.

Honestly a way to help a lot with incels is for society to stop lying about how things operate. Men and women aren't the same. Never were. Never will be. If young men knew from an early age "Hey, you have absolutely no intrinsic value as a man. Women have intrinsic value. The rules for you are different and you're going to have to work your ass off." then it wouldn't be a sudden slap in the face that makes them angry. Yes in the 50s assortative mating was more of a thing, but men back then also understood and accepted from an extremely young age that their value as a member of society and a mate was directly tied to achievement and hard work. It's no coincidence that most incels are NEETs. It's _really_ hard to instill those values after you've spent a decade or two getting the same message the girls have that you're special just the way you are. Men aren't. You're fucking _nobody_ until you work your ass off, and until you accept that down to your bones you'll continue to be frustrated.

@barbellsamurai8014

2 жыл бұрын

'but men back then also understood and accepted from an extremely young age that their value as a member of society and a mate was directly tied to achievement and hard work.' - guys in the 50's got married and bought a home and all they had to do was drop out of high school and get a job in a factory. They did not have to work their ass off

@iwantthe80sback59

2 жыл бұрын

What is “NEET”? Genuine question.

@mawnkey

2 жыл бұрын

@@iwantthe80sback59 Not in Employment, Education, or Training.

@iwantthe80sback59

2 жыл бұрын

@@mawnkey Thank you so much. Hadn’t heard that one before. Cheers.

@jasminecrellin5885

Жыл бұрын

It’s not most, it’s 17% of incels that are neets he said. Oh and also women’s value is conditional on how attractive we are which is a total lottery.

as an incel who spent a long time dedicated to the gym to self-improve, but to still get rejected for my face, it pisses me off when people say im just a part of this community be lazy/not put in effort.

@abc-gb1jf

2 жыл бұрын

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory explains who gets a relationship and why.

@logan_wolf

2 жыл бұрын

Imagine how I feel after the decade of my life devoted to trying my best to overcome my autism, and having it all brushed off like it was nothing.

@klimtkiller

2 жыл бұрын

@@logan_wolf i have autism too lmao. although i overcame a lot of anxiety so im not upset. overcoming autism is about trying to function as a normal human being. being brushed off is better than being hated/seen as a weirdo

@logan_wolf

2 жыл бұрын

@@klimtkiller But I was seen as a weirdo my entire life.

@klimtkiller

2 жыл бұрын

@@logan_wolf same man

Women can get resources themselves. But kids aren't raised by resources. They are raised by parents. Resources just provide added stability which is important for children. But children need emotional stability, family stability, parental stability, discipline, role models, etc. Not just financial stability. Women thinking they don't need men because of career opportunities is one of the biggest mistakes they could ever make.

@threethrushes

Жыл бұрын

Acquire pop-corn, sit back, and watch the world burn. The next 40 years are going to be such fun.

They tried so hard to say that women will be 40 and childless and miserable 😂

@alphashaitan65

Ай бұрын

Idk I'm a Seattle-area doctor and I see quite a few of women who fit this profile.

I’d say only a tiny fraction of involuntary celibates fraternise and feel part of a community. The rest of us are just individuals too unattractive to get a date, it seems. I was mid 30s, 6ft tall, full head of hair, great career, above average income, learning languages, well travelled, and frequently received comments from friends and family how fit I looked. Which I was. Still an incel for those years. I spoke with a lot of women who seemed to enjoy my company but it never amounted to anything. One girl asked me back to her place after a big night of drinking and hitting it off (so I thought) but once we were inside her apartment she said “oh btw, don’t think that anything is going to happen”. Yeah, no worries I said and carried on having fun with our chat until saying good night and leaving. Thats the life of an actual incel. Not all this online black pilling and resentment. It’s ordinary blokes getting rejected. Just a fact of life for many men.

@TheC-O-D-Y-Project

2 жыл бұрын

@ O.C.: There's a bit to unpack here. The statement this woman made is a verbal cue to look at here body language, not at the words in that sentence. Some people refer to this as a 'shit test', but it's not really. It's a responsibility test, more accurately. And essentially, all supposed incel-dom is around the ability to quantify and negotiate responsibility as a man, which regardless of consent laws, divorce conditions, etc, remains on the man. Always had, always will be. That statement was to get you to take every last bit of responsibility for what happens, and it's up to you to decide what parameters fall within that. These will include her safety and her happiness, and if she defines those as being sated at the time, that statement has been correctly negotiated (by you, for her) to whatever you do with her from that moment. By your actions, you negotiated this moment anyway. You were responsible, but you have left her safe. but not happy or sated. I'm guessing by the the comment structure that you have nearly no chance of maintaining a friendship with this woman despite having no quarrel with her to the point of goodnight? If you do, then her friends have a chance at you, and has been vetted by this woman as 'old style respectful'. That has cache. But again, your comments hint at a brute force method of trying to get laid, not trying to obtain a relationship through as many contacts that are potentially available (a business/customer service thinking approach). None of the above says that you should've made a move on this woman even if the body language betrayed the verbal shut down. The issue is the level of responsibility that us men have to biologically carry, no matter the circumstance or the supposed society re-wiring. Your conversation, your intent, your plan, your goals, etc. It's all on you. It always has been (sorry for the Never Back Down movie quote, but it's actually ridiculously true!). True InCels appear to lack this ability or lack their recognition of it early in life (and some will understand this and correct their own problem) and that coincided with some other usually physical factor that provided an easy cover for instead. Some are neurologically incapable or are non-fully responsibility functional, some are but need to be unlocked by some input, either direct instruction or other praxis based approach (counter intuitive unfortunately).

@denis_lengart

2 жыл бұрын

Dude, can you say, do you also have depressions?

@JezaLoki

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheC-O-D-Y-Project thank you for such an insightful comment. You have impressively articulated what friends said to me “dude, she wanted you to chase her. She’s already invited you inside at 2am, she wants you to lead from there on so that A) she feels desired and B) she doesn’t feel like she gave herself away. Kinda like a shit test, as you said. Meanwhile, others tell me that No means No and that I did the right thing by leaving. I left her safe but I can’t assume she wasn’t happy or sated. She might have been very happy leading me on just to shut me down. Some people are cruel like that. On her body language : she invited me to sit while she made us drinks. I sat on the only couch. A large 3 seater couch. She emerged from the kitchen with cups of tea, handed me one, and sat on a chair across the room from me. After a some more chatting I jokingly remarked “you know, there’s an awful lot of comfy couch going to waste over here.” That’s when she said “yeah I know but I don’t want you to think anything is going to happen “. She physically distanced herself from me for the first time that night. She wasn’t smiling coyly. She seemed serious. I wasn’t just out to get laid. I thought it might be the beginning of a relationship (prior to the rejection). I hadn’t had any romantic encounters for years at this time so I was very excited but not surprised when she shot me down. I didn’t ask for her number as I figured she would refuse and that it would make things more awkward. I continued to chat as we had been until my tea was finished. I said goodnight and left politely. This is just an example of life as an incel. There’s plenty more that span over years of rejection and bad encounters. I’ll give you another: I was in Copenhagen travelling alone. I met a girl from my home town in Australia by total chance. We both happened to wander into the same bar. She was also travelling alone. We hit it off. Had a lot to drink, went out for dinner together, back to the bar for more drinking. Having a great time. She invited me back to her hotel. Firstly, at the hotel bar, and then up to her room. She told me to get into bed while she made a phone call. I Stripped down to boxers and got into bed. She called her boyfriend. Apparently he had cheated on her while she was away. She was exclaiming “I’ve got a man in my bed right now!”. After, she called her mother to let her know she was safe and that she had a guest in her room. I should have left but I was drunk, tired, it was 3am and I had no idea what part of town I was in. She eventually climbed into bed but slept fully clothed above the covers. We never touched. In the morning I left. On another occasion, I was in Berlin. I bought some concert tickets on eBay. The seller, a girl a few years younger than me delivered them to my hostel. We had a nice chat. She seemed sweet. Two days later she contacted me and asked if she could show me around her city. I accepted and we spent the whole day together. I invited her to a dinner some of my friends who were also visiting Berlin had organised. We went back to her place so she could change. Romantic tension was building. After dinner we all went out clubbing. From then on, I was invisible. She locked on to my more attractive mates and wouldn’t even talk to me. My friends gently refused her advances. Some had girlfriends or weren’t attracted to her. Either way she was rejecting me. In front of everyone, no less. Weeks later she emailed me to ask when I was coming to Berlin again. I said I didn’t want to see her because of how she treated me. She acknowledged that she had behaved poorly and apologised citing drink and her recent breakup with her boyfriend as reasons. I may be an incel but I have more self respect than date a girl who drops me at the first sign of a more attractive man. Even tinder dates. One girl in Japan told me that nothing romantic would happen on the date in our tinder messaging. I didn’t know if it was Japanese modesty or language, or a shit test. We met, had dinner, a couple drinks. She seemed to enjoy my company, laughed at my jokes etc.. while we were laughing I playfully enquired about her no romance comment as we were clearly getting along well. She stopped laughing and smiling and told me she was serious. And she was. We continued to chat and laugh but once we were outside she coldly said bye and left. Left me standing there like a stunned mullet in the middle of the walkway amongst hundreds of Japanese party goers. Another girl on tinder in Japan invited me to a salsa dance club. She was the dj. She danced with me, taught me to salsa, had fun with me. But I noticed other western men there. When I spoke to those men they said she had invited them on tinder too. I felt another lead on and rejection coming so I left. I speak Japanese , but even so, it’s very difficult to find romance in Japan. They’ll call you kakkoii (cool looking and handsome) and seem to enjoy your company, they’ll even flirtingly touch your arm (I have nicely sculpted arms) but when you ask if they’d like to meet for dinner or coffee sometime they firmly refuse stating the classic “let’s just be friends”. It’s happened to me countless times. One Japanese girl spent the day with me, accepted an invitation back to my hotel restaurant. Had a couple drinks, but when I suggested we go upstairs to continue our chat, she refused. Another Japanese girl came to my hotel room (small rooms with no where to sit) but refused to sit on the bed with me. She didn’t seem uncomfortable. She stayed for a while chatting until I walked her back to her subway station. I could go on and on. So you see, this results in years and years of being single and inceldom. Guys like me, we aren’t in a community, there’s no philosophy to it and we aren’t monsters. We’re just dudes who no one wants to get romantic with. We attempt to take responsibility and lead, escalate, as well as be chill, have fun, make the girl feel safe while having a laugh. But if they ultimately don’t want romance with you, what can you do?

@JezaLoki

2 жыл бұрын

@@denis_lengart no, I don’t. Why do you ask?

@denis_lengart

2 жыл бұрын

@@JezaLoki Cause I do have and as far as I understand the most inc_ls have. You are seemed quite successful man and definitely the problem is not in you.

"Chad-lite explains incels to 2 incels"

Elephant in the room: did Costello’s survey of incels include attractiveness rating and height? If not, all conclusions are invalid. Because “improve yourself bro” ain’t gonna cut it in our ruthless modern dating scene.

@isoakkfgy4462

2 жыл бұрын

How do conclusions become invalid? Wouldn’t a completely subjective self-rating system be completely invalid anyway? And yes ‘improve yourself bro’ isn’t great advice for men seeking beautiful and successful women, but if these men lower their standards and worked out they would be able to find a partner, wouldn’t you agree?

@caseybanana8114

2 жыл бұрын

@@isoakkfgy4462 putting the subjectivity of the rating aside, if attractiveness is the primary cause of inceldom it is pointless to measure other irrelevant or consequential attributes. For example, if I want to measure why someone is failing at maths, I would best measure IQ and schooling rather than self-esteem and height.otherwise I might draw invalid conclusions. If you’re short, bald and ugly, no amount of gym will make you more attractive. Black pill community has found that it can sometimes work against you. Lowering one’s standard can marginally help but given hypergamy women will not settle for you especially given the male access they have now. Experiments on online dating were done where pig ugly or old ladies were still getting hundreds of matches from even decent guys.

@isoakkfgy4462

2 жыл бұрын

@@caseybanana8114 I think that is a bit disanalogous, the survey looked at political alignment and area of origin, which are factors that women take into account when finding a partner. Its not as if the survey asked for favourite sports team or something. Sure, from your point of view as a good looking women, if you’re short bald and ugly there is no amount of gym you could do, but what if he was also financially well off, confident and had your ideal body? What about your less good looking friends?

@caseybanana8114

2 жыл бұрын

@@isoakkfgy4462 attractiveness trumps every other attribute in the current dating market. Nobody cares about about who Brad Pitt votes for. Look up Meeks… If you lead with your wealth, you’ll end up with a gold digger in a sexless marriage. Poor advice. You can mitigate some of your physical characteristics but for most ugly men the improvements in dating prospects are negligible. Blaming their lack of “effort” is just victim blaming at this point and cruel where they waste effort on a false promise.

@isoakkfgy4462

2 жыл бұрын

@@caseybanana8114 attractiveness isn’t a sole attribute, it is the combination of all attributes. And yes when dating obviously women care about politics, conservative women like conservative men and vice versa, you are minimizing the point to ‘who did you vote for’ when its clearly about the values that one holds around family and society. And no, I didnt tell anyone to find a gold digger, i asked you a question which you conveniently didnt answer. Its not victim blaming men, its encouraging self improvement and to accept rejection as a normal thing.

I suspect I am not alone in being part of a subset of this group in that I effectively became an incel on the arrival of our third child and my wife advised me that she no longer had any ‘spare affection’ for me and as a result our sex life ended. 20 odd years on and the kids have moved away and I have retired but nothing has changed. I’m not complaining as I made the decisions (or non-decisions) which put and keep me where I am but the loneliness is not something I would wish on anyone.

@drakoan

2 жыл бұрын

wow...that is kind of heartbreaking.

@barbellsamurai8014

2 жыл бұрын

plenty of married men and men in ltr's laugh at incels but they dont get sex either, plenty of attached men suffering in silence

@harsh3948

Жыл бұрын

Men that cheat reported higher satisfaction in their marriages

@lifeintheolddog5768

Жыл бұрын

@@harsh3948 Presumably those who had the opportunity and didn't get found out. I'm guessing we'd each have to make a cost-benefit analysis and risk assessment where the impact on kids and probable financial destruction would weigh heavily for some of us against the delight of a tryst. Others might feel differently or have different opportunities.

@decekfrokfr3mdx

Жыл бұрын

Sorry to hear that and perhaps it's too late for you now, but for anyone else (male or female) who has low libido or has a partner with low libido, a drug called cabergoline (and other dopamine agonists) are a very promising treatment, if you can find the right doctor.

This was very interesting. Thanks for having him on.

Short men are not just discriminated against in dating. They're far more likely to be bullied or ridiculed in school (even by teachers), less likely to impress at a job interview (particularly when there are women on the interview panel), less likely to be perceived as competent. These factors mean that they begin the mental game of dating at a huge disadvantage, so are more likely to despair.

@jofieji5312

2 жыл бұрын

Short men are the only type of individual with a characteristic that can’t be changed that can be hounded endlessly about it

@Opal5674

2 жыл бұрын

I'm 6ft tall and a woman and every man who's a manager at my workplace is shorter than me and the CEO is the shortest of them all. Short men can achieve success. They just need to stop crying about the short stature as an excuse and just go for it.

@jofieji5312

2 жыл бұрын

@@Opal5674 it’s not crying. Short men as a whole don’t have any movement. Every other oppressed group rallies around each other and bitches incessantly but short men don’t. Short men have it the hardest out of all the normal deviations not including actual disabilities.

@Opal5674

2 жыл бұрын

@@jofieji5312 Yes you are crying. Did you know that the super tall men are often perceived as being dumb?

@paulwary

2 жыл бұрын

@@Opal5674 So as a 6ft woman, you’re an authority on the lived experience of short men. Lol. Typical though. Also typical that as a 6ft woman, any man who’s shorter than you is filed under ‘short’.

One of my favorite interviews yet!

This is one interesting interview and your guest has brought up excellent points about incels that I can agree but I would like too add my thoughts on incels on how they are often portrayed as mass shooters to an exaggerated while ignoring how many of them are depressed, self-loathing, suicidal and actually killed themselves? This shows that no one pays attention to men that are depressed, disenfranchised, desperate and dysfunctional until they turn violent. The rejection isn't the issue with incels but it's more like them being ignored, disrespected and dehumanised for failing to meet women's standards and it seems those are being conflated with rejection as to justify for them to be insulted and treated poorly. In my opinion, these incels come across as rather angry than hateful due to being ignored, disrespected and dehumanised if they weren't good enough to meet women's standards. The issue with incels is that they idolise women too much as they see them as the focal point of their happiness and if these incels do hate women, then why do they based their identity on the opinions of women? Even though men, specifically incels are told "no one owes them anything" not even support or compassion? Then one would wonder why these incels won't bother contributing to society and withdraw from it entirely.

@fredneecher1746

2 жыл бұрын

They don't hate women, that's the thing. It's a cover to hide the pain of not having women's company. Naturally our woke-oriented society calls this 'misogyny'.

@drewyetti

2 жыл бұрын

@@fredneecher1746 True and their issue is really about loneliness and isolation.

Thank you William Costello for a really interesting and excellently delivered debate. Impressive knowledge of research and stats served by a charismatic personality.

You guys briefly mentioned mating situations in Asia, and specifically in China. For many years China had a one child policy and they much preferred male babies to female. And they aborted many female babies. Is there any research regarding the unnaturally lopsided male society that China must be today?

@nickbrennan3389

2 жыл бұрын

Yes...i saw a documentary about young chinese men going to the philippines and thailand looking for wives. Its big business...many go with their parents and a lump of cash !!

@Locke350

2 жыл бұрын

@@nickbrennan3389 I thought that they would have searched for Chinese Malaysians or Singaporeans.

@mickeydougal

2 жыл бұрын

@@nickbrennan3389 thanks for the reply. Yeah, they messed with the natural order of things. I wonder how deep the problems go.

@grannyannie2948

2 жыл бұрын

In Australia NSW changed their abortion laws a few years ago. I remember discussions that immigration had increased demand for later abortions as gender selection is now a reason for abortion. Prior to abortion female babies were often abandoned to die in cultures where female babies were not valued.

@iceni5646

2 жыл бұрын

The Chinese preference for boys under the one child policy was because no pension existed and Chinese law made the eldest son liable for them welfare of the parents . Vietnam had a problem with girls being kidnapped yet there is still leftover women in china seeking marriage l

Brilliant! Thank you. Finally facing a social problem with compassion instead of judgement and derision.

That was a great interview. I look forward to reading more of William’s research.

This guy is great! Loved this interview.

Honestly one of the very best interviews I've watched on this channel... Thanks for having William on, very insightful and someone who isn't sullying the term "scientist", as it has been so much by nothing more than paid shills with qualifications the past two years. Look forward to hearing more from him on this subject or anything else in the future! Also be interesting to hear from the researchers he said he could recommend who study the effects of pornography.

Strange how the SJWs don't cry. "Not all Incel's".

@jackmellor5536

2 жыл бұрын

Incels are just like SJWs they both adopt victimhood as an identity.

Wishing you all the best John and that things improve for you. Thank you for taking the time to share your feelings and experience in such a vulnerable way.

If we did not teach peop l e to read, would we be surprised if some people could not read? If we did not teach people to drive, would we be surprised if some people were ineffective drivers? There is no education available on this field. Why are we surprised some people are bad at it? Why is there no education available? The people who make these decision do not have this problem and have zero empathy for unsuccessful men.

@Opal5674

2 жыл бұрын

There actually used to be films in the 40s and 50s teaching men how to court women

@benfroughi

2 жыл бұрын

Your dad is supposed to teach you, or you can learn by trial and error. It's not that difficult and achieving it only gets you a shit prize anyway.

@radicalcartoons2766

2 жыл бұрын

And yet young men today are on a steady diet of porn, so how are they not being "educated"? (Rhetorical question. Turn off the devices and get out into your community and live your life).

Konstantin will come to a more enlightened position when he connects the dots of women's excessive standards and average men not being good enough, he might actually drift away from the notion of 'be better'. Be better yes, but also be realistic. One can meet realistic standards by 'being better', but not excessive standards women have come to internalize as 'deserved' through their own entitled sense of self.

@juliantheapostate8295

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe the Ukrainian army just needs to 'be better'. They're losing at the moment

@DJW1981

Жыл бұрын

Well said.

The work issue is such a funny one. There's a genuine 'cake and eat it too' mentality with this. I hear women talk about increased paternity leave, and how men should be more involved in the rearing, but then you hear statistics like '5% of women want to be in a relationship where they work more hours than men.' - There's a lot of virtue signalling that isn't lining up with the *actual* desires of women, and so is it any surprise that men are at best confused about how to set themselves up as desirable to women?

@fredneecher1746

2 жыл бұрын

There's also an issue around how genuine a man wishes to be. He can 'work on' developing a charming personality, being more knowledgeable for the sake of seeming interesting, being muscular for the sake of appearance, but it won't be him. In the end, your life partner is surely someone who loves you for who you are, not what you do for them. But I suspect that's just naive.

@deldarma4509

2 жыл бұрын

Women just dont want a double shift of work work and work home. W paternity leaves they Hope to instore a standard where thé tasks will be shared as equitably as possible not to trap themselves in eternal toil.

@thescoon1

2 жыл бұрын

@@deldarma4509 I agree that it's an unfair assumption to have the woman be the only home worker, but you have to ask yourself honestly, and in each individual case, how will it work? Both parents working part-time at exactly perfect crossover hours so that they share duties? Typically, a household will look like this: one person works full-time and is the one who earns the lion's share for the household to be supported, while the other person does what they can while also being the primary caregiver (if kids are involved). When you come home from work, it's not like you sit on your ass and do nothing. If that's the case, you have a conversation about that like adults. What I'm arguing is that if the vast majority of women want a partner who works more than them, then that immediately sets the scales of expectation unevenly, and would only makes sense, all things being equal, for the other person to be contributing more in other ways. But it really depends on so many factors, all of which should be discussed and agreed to.

@tomcoop9750

2 жыл бұрын

This is true. My dating life improved when I realized what people say they want and what they actually respond to are two different things. Don’t ask a fish how to catch itself lol.

@robw7676

Жыл бұрын

There is a difference between what women ideally WANT vs what they would like to negotiate based upon what they can get. Paternity leave doesn't matter if you're married to a guy earning £250,000 who is happy for you to stay home, hire a cleaner & drop them at a private nursery... but if your man earns £50k, rather different.

If incels were female the tone of conversations would be so much different. Instead of "work on yourself" it would be "society must do soemthing!"

@Opal5674

2 жыл бұрын

There are female incels. Just more rare because men will usually plow it wherever they can find a willing woman. What do you want society to do? Force eomen to service men we don't want to?

@VelkePivo

2 жыл бұрын

Good point

@nocturnal03

2 жыл бұрын

No it wouldn't. Women have always been told to "work on themselves" so their men don't cheat or abandon them, women's magazines have been about that since the dawn of time. When it comes to incelism, women are more happy single than men, plus women don't have the sexual entitlement.

@Locke350

2 жыл бұрын

No lies detected.

@songsthatarecatchy

2 жыл бұрын

There are female incels

This was such a fascinating interview. Lots to think about!

So incels are found equally on the left, middle and right in society. So, it has existed since the beginning of humanity.

@Hooga89

2 жыл бұрын

Well the idea that it was only located on one side of the political spectrum was a dumb idea to begin with because the problem with incels is that they are sexually and romantically unappealing to women, not that they have the "wrong" politics.

@keyontedollison8547

2 жыл бұрын

This world need to clear they head and find some sort of change and them

@aranisles8292

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hooga89 The left are always looking for demons outside of themselves, and incels fit the nicely in the white male misogynist demon, which, naturally, cannot be any of them, so, ipso facto, on the right, even the 'far' right or at the extreme, no different from fascists.

@Locke350

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hooga89 It’s used as a slur against those who criticise woke leftist politics.

@arianawoosley2841

2 жыл бұрын

The left quite likes attaching anything socially undesirable to the right so that they get more mental incentive to hate the opposing political party.

28:48 It's nice and easy to sit there and judge those whose shoes you've never walked in, nor any shoes for that matter that carried nearly the same burden. You imply that no incel has ever done any self-improvement, you frame it as if incels just have never tried, have never put in the effort or work, on what grounds? How can you possibly know that? I dedicated over a decade of my life to self-improvement, particularly with my social disability, pouring my blood, sweat and tears into overcoming it, believing (correctly) that it was the number one obstacle in my way to a normal life, and a relationship. And where did that get me? Of course I gave up. Why shouldn't I? I have that right! After dedicating so much of my time and life to improving and trying to get out, and finding that my improvements are getting me nowhere, or that I can no longer improve, why shouldn't I quit while I'm ahead? Why shouldn't I pull my bets from an investment that is just not paying out, and looks like it likely never will? But people like you sit there, and judge me, and presume to "know" that I've done nothing to get myself out of this situation. Becoming incel wasn't my identity while I was trying to escape the fate my poor genetics have trapped me in; it was the relief of quitting after a lifetime of constant, unending failure. You know nothing of what it's like to be me. You know nothing of what I've been through, and what I've done or not done to get out. You therefore cannot presume to know better than me what is best for my situation and how I got stuck here.

@dsds3968

6 ай бұрын

Just be confident bro.

Superb work William. I hope you will do many more interviews and get this information out to the people.

I'm 46, married and have 2 adult kids. And basically he's talking about me. KK doesn't understand the difference between experiencing anxiousness and having anxiety. You can't just "be better".

@zeno2501

2 жыл бұрын

You can. Anxiety is irrational. Study the logic of it and practice meditation and with time you'll learn to overcome negative emotion. It is all within your control.

@szfrj

2 жыл бұрын

@@zeno2501 anxiety can be extremely physical in the way it manifests. When I was suffering , I wasn’t anxious on a conscious level, but my nervous system was just misfiring, being on constant alert as if I was in danger. I had all sorts of weird symptoms. Emotion based strategies never worked, but trying to calm my body did, and meditation is sure one way to achieve that

@zeno2501

2 жыл бұрын

@@szfrj I'm so glad to hear about your progress. Well done. I would recommend meditation to everyone if I had a loud enough megaphone.

@rhoetusochten4211

2 жыл бұрын

Meditation has always had the exact opposite effect on me. It merely opened my mind to experience the dread further. Yoga could put me into a blind rage. Medication could help, at least I haven't gone into full scale panic attacks very often since becoming medicated. But, the depression that was uncovered when I was no longer on constant fight/flight mode all the time, has been unaffected.

@manfrombritain6816

2 жыл бұрын

@@zeno2501 the way i see it, anxiety is the symptom of an over-sensitive device. the device in your brain that's designed to detect/predict threats to your body and mind. anxiety is experiencing fight/flight type response to situations that do not require it. you can't simply logic and meditate your way out of it, but you can work to become less sensitive through repeated exposure also yeah, i agree with Rhoetus - meditation always made my anxious feelings worse

After so much ignorant vilification, I suppose I should be grateful for this half-hearted attempt to understand men who can't get a partner. For many it will seem like sympathy, yet I find conversations about a group of people who are constantly referred to as "they", a bit disturbing. After all, it's rude to talk about someone present as if they're not there. We got to this point half a century ago with disabled people, and we stopped talking about "them" and started recognising that each person is an individual and the apparent 'group' is a social artefact. There are deep issues behind these personal tragedies that haven't even been touched on. As for that "Tendency for Interpersonal Victimhood", it sounds like a target drawn after the shot is fired. First, think of a nice idea, then devise a set of questions around it and - voila, it becomes a reality.

I am a 31 year old man who has very little desire to enter a relationship, let alone get married and have kids. The interest just isn't there. I would not describe myself as a incel. I have a question for anyone who relates to this. Why do you lack desire/interest to enter into a relationship? Is it for personal reasons, or societal reasons? And lastly, does it change how people treat you?

@thedevilandhertrumpets4268

2 жыл бұрын

Relationships aren’t treated with respect. They seem to be viewed as disposable. Too many marriages end in divorce, and those that enter marriage do so with a casualness that will result in catastrophic effects. Character and morals matter, and I can’t see myself getting into a relationship with someone who doesn’t value or cultivate the character required for a successful relationship.

@yungacid1

2 жыл бұрын

Precisely.

@lovelessjams2720

2 жыл бұрын

For me the reward is no longer there. I'm not interested in women or interested in what women are interested in anymore.

@apebass2215

2 жыл бұрын

Why do you no longer see a benefit to having a wife and children?

@Stoogie

2 жыл бұрын

For me it's disgust, you could be disgusted with any attractive woman if you overthink logically and your hormones don't overpower your logic, same can be said with emotions and social relationships, I'm ASD,SPD,DDD

I love how they were like "most incels arent actually that bad and could have relationships if they just put some sincere effort in" and then they were like "unless you're short" 💀💀💀

@graduke1

Жыл бұрын

Just move to countries where the men are typically shorter...Southeast asia or Latin America....or poorer. I think American guys now know this and have become passport bros. Maybe the answer is a one way ticket to thailand😅😅

@Ven-zg3fj

Жыл бұрын

@@graduke1 "Just move away from all of your familial wealth, everyone you know, away from the language you speak, away from your culture, quit your job, and go somewhere else." How about fuckin NO?

Both Rome and Greece fell when they legitimized Polygamy

@manfrombritain6816

2 жыл бұрын

and when Rome started importing tons of foreigners and using slave labour to do everything on the cheap

@Francio-fu5oj

2 ай бұрын

Totally false hahah WTF man study history.

@tubularbill

2 ай бұрын

@@Francio-fu5oj- no not at all.

im a facially ugly incel, always been called horrible things by female peers in my country. unless society is willing to make drastic changes which i know most women would not agree too and attractive/rich men, only thing i can do is geomaxx and hope to find better lands where feminist still don't have complete control and culture is more traditional. a fit guy, working, and educated shouldnt be seen as a outcast in his own society, my belief

@Gothicc_senpai

2 жыл бұрын

@Jane B Robbins its all the same, women control western society. why do you think men are trying to leave this society. i know i will.

@Gothicc_senpai

2 жыл бұрын

@Jane B Robbins putting words into my mouth, im sure you a women knows everything lol probably never talked to a ugly guy ever. why even comment if your just gonna be ignorant, either speak your point or go be a bitter 40 yr old feminist

Mr. Costello (PhD candidate) needs to do more research. Incel communities (such as online forums he discusses as 'new') have always available to socially-inept guys who are scorned and rejected by their peers, women, and society. For instance, when I was in high school in the early 1980s the low-status socially-inept young men jointed groups like the debate team, speech, band, or orchestra. This formed a community of like-minded (and typically pretty smart) guys who had an opportunity to develop themselves and skills, even if they were rejected by women. in college in the late 1980s there were gaming like D&D or guy activities (backpacking, biking, etc), which have very few women participants. These guy groups were a way for gents to interact with each other. Of course the topic of women and lack of dating prospects would come up. As young men in the working world my peers formed groups of guys with hobbies (board games or whatever - this was before PCs and online communities existed). A few were married, but most were not and dating was rare (I can't remember a single instance). By this time these guys were successful and in some cases highly successful professionals (scientists, engineers, software developers, etc), but not successful in relationships. The main difference is that the interaction of old-school incel communities was face-to-face and activity based with a group of friends. Perhaps that made a difference compared to today's online incel forums, which provide a connection-lite opportunity but not friendships. As to me, I ended up being a senior scientist and successful mayor, overcoming low self confidence and a crippling fear of taking to strangers. But I never figured out women and gave up even trying over 20 years ago. So I guess that makes me an incel.

@soacker25

2 жыл бұрын

Fully agree!

@threethrushes

Жыл бұрын

Paradoxically, most of the high-status males in today's society were the ones who joined the debate team at school...QCs, Prime Ministers, etc.

What a great interview. Loads of questions unanswered after listening this, good stuff.

Anytime the American MSM says something as fact, literally believe the exact opposite. I have found that this is the only way to know what’s true or not. Especially left leaning but right leaning isn’t that much better. Independent news and podcast like this is the only way to get accurate information these days.

@mrconfusion87

6 ай бұрын

Though the dateless young men issue in the US has become noticeably bad enough even Establishment mouthpieces like CNN had no choice but to discuss it...

Great interview. Thus guy is interesting and enthusiastic.

One of the interesting social trends of our time is that ugly women no longer have any interest in dating ugly men, so a huge proportion of men will remain unmarried, which is many ways is problematic for society. I'm an older ugly guy now, but back in the late 90's I was able to get lots of dates, and even married. The situation for ugly guys now is depressing. They just have to cross love and marriage off their bucket list and find contentment in some other area of human endeavor.

@deldarma4509

2 жыл бұрын

Most incels arent even ugly. Thé poster boy Eliott Rogers was even good looking. He just creeped women out with his attitude, looked at them like they were a subpar species who owed him sexual access, he never interacted with women outside of pornography. Most ugly men have a chance at dating if they groom themselves correctly, have good manners and do a minimum of physical exercise. And actually meet women IRL of course, dating sites like Tinder are around 80% men, the market is already skewed there.

@meneither3834

2 жыл бұрын

This is in no way a "social trend of our time."

@jzen1455

2 жыл бұрын

The pool of marginally sexually attractive women is dwindling as the standards of what women expect in men continually increases. Women are becoming more narcissistic and hedonistic with little regard for how their actions affect society. I know way too many single moms with highly dysfunctional kids and too many poly/alt lifestyle people who are f@cking there way through society like tornadoes creating paths of destruction.

@leigh7507

Жыл бұрын

who do ugly women date long term then?

@Jopacob

Жыл бұрын

Maybe that is the new Darwinian self selection?

An absolutely fascinating conversation! Wow! Loved it

Wonderful interview! Can't wait to see you guys at the Fringe festival on Saturday!

Absolutely fantastic interview. So few people understand incels like this, and I think most people choose to be ignorant because they feel like trying to understand what incels really believe and why legitimizes the community, so to speak. At the core, the incel problem originates with a lack of emotional intimacy, including from friends and family, and a lack of success in pursuing that intimacy. The desire for belonging leads to them falling into the echo chamber, and the idea that they will never succeed in spite of all effort leads to a strong sense of learned helplessness. These men are hurt and need help, and the only thing society sees fit to do is to shame them and deny them the help they need.

7:28 Yes, but now imagine that, without a single success to make all the effort, all the work, and all the rejections, worth it. That's an incel's reality. It's easier to say "keep trying" when your efforts have yielded results at one point or another. It's far more difficult to believe in the value of "keep trying" when all your efforts have been in vain. JFL at this have, trying and failing to understand the have-nots.

The only channel where I find ads listenable

Really fascinating listening to this one and incredibly well explained.

I'm surprised that an hour in, you still haven't touched on Tinder and hypergamy, which seems to stack the odds against below-average men even higher.

@kimjin-hyub3413

2 жыл бұрын

They have touched it bro .

@DJW1981

Жыл бұрын

They stack the odds against any man not in the top 10%. Not just the below average. Its entirely possible to be good looking, have a job, wealth, a nice personality and still get nothing but rejection.

Houllebecq talks presciently about the market liberalisation of relationships for want of a better phrase; that a very small number of people of both sexes are having a lot of sex, whereas a lot of other people who are less attractive are now having very little or nothing at all. He makes the analogy that more traditional forms of relationship creation in other societies - i.e arranged marriages - at least provide those with nothing with something. Our individualistic direction in western society has provided some people with some very rewarding relationships, but it does appear that our desire for perfection, sharpened by the internet, is creating a difficult situation. I know that up to 20 years or so ago, workplace relationships were very common and were a common route to marriage; but I wonder whether these are now as commonplace.

@mrconfusion87

6 ай бұрын

Up to those born in the 1980s, it is still possible. But I do not hear such stories from those born in the 1990s onwards anymore...

Top Guy! Great interview!

Excellent interview

I'm wondering about the effect of the obesity epidemic on incels. 27% of British male and 29% of British female adults are obese. If women expect better of their partner than themselves in hypergamy, do the obese women mostly rule out these 27% of men? While men who are not obese will rule out the 29% of women. We also have the body positivity movement affirming obesity in women but not in men, so that might raise obese women's social status but not for the men.

@katieandnick4113

2 жыл бұрын

Hypergamy refers to marrying above your economic class. Appearance is more important to men and always has been, so it’s much more common to see a couple where the woman is objectively more attractive than the man than vice versa.

@Opal5674

2 жыл бұрын

@@katieandnick4113 Idk about that. I see plenty of fairly attractive men married to obese women. Perhaps they didn't start out that way

@ilikethiskindatube

2 жыл бұрын

​@@katieandnick4113 They talk about social status throughout the interview and discuss hypergamy in those terms. It's not true that appearance doesn't matter to women, we all know the standards of being six foot or over and that's just as much a standard of appearance. Social movements tell us that obesity is fine if you're a woman, beauty at every size. So I'm wondering what effect that has - without making assumptions.

@Locke350

2 жыл бұрын

@@Opal5674 ​ That’s pretty much Juggernaut Law and Economics & Human Biology has a study that “very unattractive” women are more likely to be married than other women.

@keyontedollison8547

2 жыл бұрын

Were kids always can play games on the computer and socialize with their friends on google chat or other platforms and the media

It's been 5 years now since I have been with a woman and I had only 2 successes overall. I have no idea what I should do about it and to be honest I basically have given up on actively trying. If there's an opportunity then fine, if not then it is what it is. It's not even that I was not trying. I tried for years but when you get nothing satisfying for that long, you lose the will to continue. As William said, maybe it will be better in like 3 years when I'll be 30 but I wouldn't bet on that

Another brilliant interview. Thank you.

Fascinating and thought provoking as always- but even more than usual, great interview

What an utterly fascinating man. It’s a genuine shame he doesn’t have a Patreon (or equivalent) for his research, as I’d donate to that.

@harsh3948

Жыл бұрын

@@PreferredMethods it can only be reduced when women lower their standards. Not at the current rate where they only find 5% of house husbands attractive

@gwho

11 ай бұрын

Pretty standard cut and dry academic who did his relevant homework if you ask me. Don't get me wrong I love those types.they address actual question instead of charismatic talking marketers and sales people who lack substance

23:00 you dont have to look like a guy on Love Island to get a woman..maybe you do to get a model, but an average woman, no. A Dad bod or a bit skinny is fine. Its more important that you are nice, respectful, a little bit funny, semi educated.

Wow, such an interesting interview. Thank you guys.

Very interesting, great pod as per usual 🔥

Even if you aren't an "incel", it's not hard to see why it draws some men in. Marriage is too risky, sex has no value, "family" is almost a swear word to a feminist, buying a house is a pipe dream for most, the state does everything in it's power to wrest control from the individual, poly relationships are becoming more and more common (again, no consideration on what impact this has on raising children). Even women are becoming fatter (unless you are a fat fetishist, this is NOT a good thing)! Traditional values of family and real friendships are being harpooned. I'm not sure this is as "involuntary" and the media make it out to be, it's not like the reward is worth the risk.

@1966johnnywayne

2 жыл бұрын

Add to all that the added pressure wrought by massive immigration into all western countries, where the young foreign born males then pursue the local women as trophies pushing out societies "B" males. IT'S GONNA GET UGLY.

@ray076NL

2 жыл бұрын

it's like the state is testing men, like in tribal times. only the greatest of men are allowed to have offspring.

@catwoman7462

2 жыл бұрын

I think also men can be put off marriage because he could lose almost everything in the the event of a divorce. Also even dating can be a minefield for men as they can so easily have the finger pointed at them accusing them of rape. I don't blame them for opting out. I just wish they didn't hate women because of it as we're not all harridans.

@MrHackTheGibson

2 жыл бұрын

What you describe sounds more like "volcel" (voluntarily celibate)

@zerotolerance2679

Жыл бұрын

Well, don't go for a feminist, there's one problem solved. Polygamy is still INCREDIBLY rare, particularly in western nations. Like he said, most women don't want to share. Sex of course has value, you just need to find a woman who, shock horror, isn't going to be easy to get. Or on the flip side, don't discount a woman who is looking for commitment based on her previous promiscuity. The continuation of your bloodline and having a partner far outweighs whether some is fat or not. Maybe some men just don't want it bad enough. Everyone compromises.

Interested in the section on reversal of roles and Constantin Kissin’s observation that we’re not wired that way. Was put in mind of orthodox Jewish communities. Usually the women work and the men study. It was a way they found to deal with middle European ghetto society and restrictions on job options for Jews. They seemed to manage this system quite well. Also in many Arab societies it used to be taken for granted that the women worked in the fields all day and the men sat drinking coffee. I wouldn’t say that’s ideal but I wanted to remind you that the social structure Kissin was thinking of is by no means universal - nor is it immutable.

@DJW1981

Жыл бұрын

Interesting too how both the communities you mention have no incel problem, as they tend to heavily steer their youngsters into marriage at a fairly early age.

@foreverhungry7777

Жыл бұрын

@@DJW1981 But they do have a deep misogyny problem. As someone who has dated both groups, I can attent from first hand experience.

wow Ive been educated tonight !! Thank you for yet another amazing interview

Absolutely fantastic interview!

@keyontedollison8547

2 жыл бұрын

Great interview