The problem is not thumb ring, the problem is that infantry is just not viable. The fact that many infantry civs have to rely on archers, says a lot.

@MikelRobinson

Жыл бұрын

exactly. japanese is a great example also.

@Dawnrim

Жыл бұрын

Do you have specific suggestions for infantry buffs/other units nerf in mind? I cannot imagine anything that would make pure infantry comp generally viable pre-imp that wouldn't break the game...

@connormako1987

Жыл бұрын

@@Dawnrim they could get rid of a lot of the infantry bonus damage like archers bonus to spear or the handcannons bonus. They would dominate roughly just as hard without those bonuses.

@marceloferreira9

Жыл бұрын

​@@Dawnrim Maybe give militia line +1 pierce armor, include unique units from castles like beserks, Jaguar Warriors, Woad Raider, Teutonic Knights, Urumi and etc, or give them a little bit of speed to chase archers better. i think the devs actually designed the infantry to be a 3rd option, but it's clearly not viable right now.

@aoefsmrap

Жыл бұрын

@@Dawnrim I'm not an authority by any means, but I think a lower recruitment cost and/or higher speed and/or pierce armor could be good ideas.

What you said about some of the classic civs is true and I truly hope they look into it. Hopefully you and the rest of the pros can put in a word. There's also more classic civs that we barely see anymore like Teutons or Celts. Good analysis though :)

@Kawabongahlive

Жыл бұрын

They destroyed vikings meanwhile they let franks run rampant... EDIT: Hera didn't mention this because his video was arabia focused but they also got nerfed on water, too.

@Tim_593

Жыл бұрын

@@Kawabongahlive Franks are not strong to a point where its an issue. What we should be looking at is that every dlc civ has had one or more core aspects nerfed so far.

@CrnaStrela

Жыл бұрын

Teutons and celts are plenty in closed maps though, not everything has to be balanced around arabia.

@ar1sm70

Жыл бұрын

@@CrnaStrela Are they though? Yes, they're good on Arena sure, but what's the last time you saw Teutons there..? It feels like these days it's always Poles, Bohemians, Turks, Burgundians and Bengalis..

@teddyhaines6613

Жыл бұрын

@@CrnaStrela Nobody uses Celts on Arena and that's the only closed map that's consistently in the ranked pool for 1v1s.

poor hera, makes this video and not long after vikings get the biggest buff in aoe history

I enjoy this kind of content talking about civilisations. More please :)

please revisit this, seems that with the new update the vikings are now the buffkings

The downfall of an entire civilization caused by one tiny ring

@ericfalley

Жыл бұрын

Someone could make an entire trilogy out of this.

Perfect video concept man make a series out of this! Definitely a couple of more civs that don’t get any love by the devs. (Incas, Celts, Slavs, Burmese, Malians, Bengali are a few civs that either struggles on too many kinds of maps, get too hard countered, or just lacks any power spikes imo)

@jefffinkbonner9551

Жыл бұрын

Basically all of those civs have been buffed with the new patch!

The new patch seems to really help address these issues!

I would love to see Berserkers do bonus damage at low HP

@Taydris0

Жыл бұрын

This could easily be adapted to be part of Chieftains. Excellent idea.

@agonefire

Жыл бұрын

Maybe have Berserkers generate gold while in combat like the Tartar UU? It would be historically accurate, and help pay for the Elite upgrade. The Elite upgrade should probly be reduce by another ~20% too

@suprsham7838

Жыл бұрын

​​@@agonefire each kill with a berserker generates 15 gold would be sick unique tech

@tyrant_hermit

Жыл бұрын

Berserker train at barracks like huskarls

@Nazuiko

Жыл бұрын

@@agonefire Well you were almost right; looks like theyll be generating gold for killing Econ units (5/vil, 20/Trade cart or monk), Berserkergang for free, AND better archers (more range on longboats+arbs)

Hera and Spirit of the law are definitely the best AOE content creators for people who want to know the game. Thanks!

I'd love more content like this that goes about the meta history about certain civs! Especially the ones that gor heavy reworks (Cumans in particular got so many changes, would make for an extremely interesting analysis imo) Perhaps a good way to improve Vikings would be to give them back Thumb Ring and a new UT for Imp? Berserkergang always seemed to be a wasted tech when it comes to design creativity

@SuperFighter94

Жыл бұрын

SOTL did a four-parter called "Through the Ages" covering the changes to the OG AOK Civs over time.

@tiancheng8549

Жыл бұрын

The problem is that most of the infantry units are weak, so the unique techs on them are weak too.

@Mattroid99

Жыл бұрын

​@@tiancheng8549That's not true, Goths for instance have two fantastic unique techs, Druzina is amazing, even Chieftains is a great tech. Berserkergang tho is just a "Now it does its unique niche perk a bit better". Is not creative at all, with all the cool unique techs we have that define their civs this one is straight up lazy. Not saying it should be incredibly strong but at least something that gives the civ some extra flavor to make it stand out

@tiancheng8549

Жыл бұрын

@@Mattroid99 Maybe they should buff this tech and increase berserker regenerate to 80/minute. That would bring a significant change so archer unit needs to macro better to counter them. Still, berserker would not be nearly as useful as huskarl

@jundrix3675

Жыл бұрын

So what do you think about the recent replacement for Berserkergang? :)

This style of content is absolutely great! I would love more of it!

Vikings performed pretty well in NAC water maps tho, TaToH made a good use of their longboats in that game against mrYo. Also congrats on the NAC4 win man! 🔥💯

@mbvglider

Жыл бұрын

Hera made good use of Vikings against Liereyy, too.

Good video as always! Though Vikings are top 10 on Arabia 1vs1 1600+ elo for the last three patches and it's pretty much only classic civs in the top 15, looking at elo 1200+ it's pretty much the same story. Extending to all 1vs1 maps, they drop a bit, but are still an above average civ and it's just three newer civs in the top 20.

Increase infantry hp bonus to +10hp in feudal, +20 from castle. 80 hp longswords sounds like no joke. And 75hp pikes can tank quite a lot from skirms or siege, making xbow+pike more interesting

Vikings have always been my fav civ. I’ve been complaining since day 1 about them losing thumbring and up until recently everyone has disagreed with me. I don’t think they should mess with the classic civs. They’re also just way too cool to make feel so bland.

@mohamedkacem5095

Жыл бұрын

agree they should stop messing with original civs, now vikings aren't strong in any map except water maybe

I'd like to see a bonus to the civ that is more historically accurate, such as getting a percentage of resources from destroying enemy buildings. High tier buildings give wood/stone/gold. Mid tier wood/stone and low tier just wood. Could lead to them being played more all in early game that falls off late. Definitely follows the more 'raiding' vibe.

@SD-ft5xj

Жыл бұрын

Honestly just give them thumb ring back im sick of gimmicky things

@Darthski

Жыл бұрын

@@SD-ft5xj 'gimmicky' things is what keeps the game fresh. And personally I don't want to play Vikings to go arbs, that is so not the Viking fantasy.

@majungasaurusaaaa

Жыл бұрын

@@Darthski Archers were heavily utilized by the norse both on ships and land. What is fantasy is heavy pitched battles with infantry. These were mostly light raiders.

Congratz on the NAC4 win Hera! As for Vikings and other infantry civs, I think in general the core problem to me feels like castle age players cannot use infantry to fight for map control since archers could kite, and Knights being super powerful. On top of that you have quickwalls and multi-walls to effectively stall against any infantry push with ranged unit to fire behind. So infantry-only civs like Drividians and Vikings just felt lost in castle age. After so many attempts by devs to make infantry more powerful, I think maybe they could explore tweaking castle age siege next, in particular rams and scorpions. Just as xbows and mangonels form a pushing force, I think if infantry civs could form a similar pushing force with ram, scorpions, longswords, they'll be in a much better position without having to overtune infantry. And overall made castle age more fun with more variety.

Great vid and congrats on taking the dub in the finals hell of a game your the 🐐

I agree with your points and I wanna add something too: Dravidians is like the better Vikings these days, except for eco. Even then, they get extra 200 wood when they age up, and their archers have thumb ring too. Urumi Swordsman is also a better unit. Don't know, it feels like devs made this civ to mock Viking players with a better version, especially after nerfs.

I like this kind of talk-down very much. I like vikings, but I'm kinda freshly back in, and I didn't play online before too. SOOO what I'm gettin' into, is that WHEN I pick them for pvp, I lose to my incompetenxe in early game, but I still aim for something like skirm+champ into skirm+berserk+halbs. I never liked the idea of investing in bows and melee gold units at the same time

For what it's worth Vikings have remained top 10 win rate on arabia through all of this, ahead of basically all other archer civs. Makes sense why they wouldn't be picked in tournies tho

This kind of content talking about civilizations is really good. We do enjoy it.

I think much of the issue with civs like Vikings which were designed to be "infantry civs", traces back to the ongoing difficulty with infantry being viable as the core of a composition in general non-specific circumstances -- which in turn arises because the infantry upgrade path is just so long for what you get in return. Consider the costs & total upgrade times for fully-upgrading (assuming all techs are available) Long Swordsmen vs. Knights vs. Crossbowmen in Castle Age: Long Swordsman 1445F + 510G + 7:20 Knights 1070F + 370G + 5:20 Crossbowmen 1025F + 550W + 600G + 5:00 And the costs & total times for getting all upgrades to Champions vs. Paladins vs. Arbalesters in Imperial Age: Champion 3070F + 1335G + 13:05 Paladin 3295F + 1845G + 12:45 Arbalester 2325F + 550W + 600G + 9:20 Looking at those numbers: it's really not much of a surprise to me that even many civs designed as "infantry civs" -- like Vikings -- have traditionally reached for archers... and that when this has become harder, their viability has dropped. Historically in RL, major benefits of fielding infantry over cavalry included it being quicker to muster, easier to train, and cheaper to arm. IMHO AoE2 could benefit from some (cautious and careful!) consideration of buffs to the Militia-line tech tree that would reflect this.

On land maps, what can Vikings do that Poles don't do equally well or better?

I really enjoy this kind of content with a chronological approach about the civs and the game. I will love to see an análisis of the current camel (and monks) meta, how to counter it with different types of civs or if its worth to nerf it in some way. Congratulations for the NAC!

I'm pretty low elo and don't understand enough i think but would maybe a free arson or earlier researchable arson would help the vikings and suit in theme being a civ thats irl known for raiding? and if not, why?

I don't think they need thumb ring back, and it was a good change. They should double down on the berzerk and infantry aspect, and maybe making chieftain easier to get. I just think a general buff to infantries (maybe making barracks easier to mass at castle, and the other two buildings taking longer to build or be less cheap ?) would make infantries a big "default army" in early feudal, or investing in an early scout or archer rush would mean sacrifing a lot of timing and / or ressources

I absolutely loved this video, keep them coming!

List of changes to buff infantry as a viable option for Inf Civs instead of having them rely on Xbow/Arb until eventually they transition in the late game (like most Inf civs): - Militia Line Upgrades are removed, except for Champion in Imp and maybe MAA in Feudal for balance purposes: As you go up to Castle and Imp, Long and Two Handed Swordsman are researched instantly. - Instead of buffing Inf speed, add another tier of the Squires upgrade in Castle/Imp, maybe at a hefty price and not available to all civs, but with another %increase to infantry movement speed (maybe call the tech "Marching Speed") - Add +1 pierce armor to selected infantry (maybe Militia line or Spear line) and then +1 or +2 Skirmisher damage bonus against infantry. That way archers are slightly less effective while Skirms remain viable specially in trash wars. - Infantry Civs in general should be able to focus on their "signature" infantry, while Militia line is a transition/complementing unit, not the end goal. So, buff to unique Infantry units, most probably creation speed across the board (being limited by Castles is already good enough), or base stats (for example, I understand that Jaguar warriors are supposed to be an infantry counter but being completely and utterly useless against anything else, while being outclassed in their own role by Arbalests is sad). I'm sure everyone would like to see more Samurai/Berserkers/Teutonic Chads, etc - Final brainstorming crazy idea: Currently the rock/paper/scissors balance only includes Cavalry, Archers and Spears. You can even include Skirmishers to the "Archer" structure since they have bonus to Spearline anyways. But all foot infantry is completely out of this formula. It doesn't serve any purpose unless it's backed by super-stacked civ bonuses. Why not make the formula ""Cav > Archers > Infantry > Cav" where foot infantry is more comparably paired against Cavalry, maybe in the form of bonus damage, increased armor against Cav, or some sort of other crazy buff (for each nearby adjacent infantry unit you get a stacking attack/melee armor bonus up to a cap). Cavalry should still beat them in equal numbers and maybe resources, but historically a cavalry charge against an infantry formation was not necessarily casualty-free for the horsies as it basically is in the game. Make it so Cav is still super scared of Pikes but a bit more scared of Champions too, so Cav role is more flanking, raiding and dealing with archers, Infantry role is pushing a position forward despite casualties due to being cheaper and faster produced, and archers remain the back DPS/defense tool that need to be protected from any units getting into melee range. I can see this solving the Cav/Archer composition meta that we had for agents in team games while also making infantry more relevant overall

I used to be a Viking main... "used to"...

Vikings had it rough, being considered absolute trash on land maps back in the days, then getting free wheelbarrow/handcart techs, and now their only solid game plan died as well as some of their late game viability. I just accept defeat when I get them on Black Forest.

It would be maybe impossible, but if infantry hitting buildings caused them to be unrepairable while under attack (maybe arson upgrade give the effect) then they would have a better castle age role without overpowering them in combat

They should get thumb ring back but wheelbarrow and handcart take time to be researched (still free just requires research time at the town center)

I feel like Devs wanted to make Vikings more infrantry based. IMO they should have thumb ring, but maybe lose bracer to make xbows more viable in castle but to play to berserks in imperial. Also Berserkergang should be part of the elite upgrade and there should be new unique tech to make all infrantry more viable or to complete the civ in other way.

@maidenmadness1

Жыл бұрын

The problem with making anything "infantry based" is that infantry are fucking dogshit in this game outside of a few scenarios.

@drearyplane8259

Жыл бұрын

Losing Bracer would nerf their late game navy tho

@LordTameo

Жыл бұрын

@@maidenmadness1 fully upgraded berserks do a lot of damage, but going to that point we're you have a mass of them is nearly impossible.

@LordTameo

Жыл бұрын

@@drearyplane8259 you're right. Didn't think of it. Longboats without bracer don't make sense.

Reworking Bererkergang into a tech that gives atkspeed to pikemen and archer-line would be fitting I think. The removal of Thumb Ring was to combat their mid-game eco oppressiveness, but it severely hurt their lategame. An Imperial Age UT that gives Atkspeed to Arbs would mitigate the lake of DPS and for Pikes would in combination with HP-bonus and Chieftains make for good "Pseudo-Halberdiers".

@CrnaStrela

Жыл бұрын

Viking's Pikes already a pseudo halbs with their extra hp, they actually perform better than generic halbs against cavalries.

i FEEL this. then couple with the fact early fire ships make it so you can't take over the water until castle anyway and you're just like ok what do i do after drush

Was actually a like 1400 vikings 1 trick and I literally quit ranked cuz of it :(

I watch these videos just the for the mini city designs hera comes up with

Vikings could get thumb ring in the imperial age. Some civs could receive castle age ups in the imperial age to make them more appealing. The Turks for example, should receive the elite skirm upgrade in the imperial age. No reason to be stuck with both skirm and spearman in the last age.

With the new PUP changes, I'm curious to see how this affects Vikings viability. When I first got DE Vikings were my favourite, and it's been sad to see how they killed my baby :D

Most of people would agree upon a statement that infantry can`t fulfill it`s role at early stages of the game. Reason is the strongest part of infantry is it is spammable: their strength lies in numbers and only through sheer numbers they project threat forcing a reaction from an opponent. Problem is that making long swordsmen even more spammable than it is now in Castle Age will make no good for the Game and will affect a lot of civilizations and balance around them. Thus we should seek for another "tool" that will give infantry way to force engagements or project threat on your opponent. For example, buff a token of civilizations (Vikings, Goths, Celts, Malay, Dravidians, Slavs, Sicilians, maybe few more) by giving their infantry units looting mechanic: 1) food from houses and town centers; 2) gold from markets, monasteries and universities (also, Caravanserai and Feitoria); 3) stone from towers and castles (optional); 4) wood from every other building; 5) every resource from wonder (for the memes). This loot mechanic should be extremely limited in terms of revenue though. As it should create a psychological pressure on your opponent. You probably should give it in a castle age too, not in feudal.

It does feel like there's been power creep over time. Many of the classic civs like Vikings, Celts, Goths, Teutons and Persians seem underwhelming now.

It was a nice try by the devs to make a real infantry civ. If they get thumb ring back it should be a bit more balanced than before, since fast imp arb at least cost more. But it’s a bit boring to just go back. Berserker is actually the one infantry unit that could be viable vs cav and xbows if they got the right buffs. I say buff their training time from 12>10 sec, so at least you can get decent numbers of them in time without the need of 2-3 castles. Also, giving them an ever so slight speed buff would be interesting. They could kite xbows easier without reversing counter roles, and run away from knights easier if needed, and also raid better which would be historically cool. It would be amazing if you could play pikes defensively while your berserkers are offensively trying to raid and sniping reinforcements in castle age, would be a really unique play style. Also giving Vikings a small late game buff would be cool, but I feel like that’s harder. Maybe just thumb ring is the best option. Siege onagers would be cool but probably unfair vs archers civs.

Give Vikings slightly faster infantry units across the board so kiting is more difficult mid game. It's also going to be a unique trait for them to represent their ability to raid.

They are still solid on water maps, but I just played a game on Arabia (at ~1650 ELO, so ok but not actually good) and somebody kinda called my bluff re my archers. Without thumb ring, they were just able to fight me off and go to lategame with a pretty significant advantage. Now, their macro kinda fell apart in late game so I regained and won, but honestly on watching the replay I'm not sure what I could have done better with my archer play. In the past I could have given up a little ground and picked up thumb ring then basically killed them. The general archer nerfs + losing thumbring just compound to make the archer play really not much of a threat from Vikings (considering they don't have a great lategame). Vs Vikings you can be surprised and just push it back and if they didn't all-in you can be ahead with basically no risk. If they did all-in you can still fight it off and usually be equal even if you're playing purely reactively and missed everything with your scouting. Before if they didn't all-in you had to respect that they might have and play much more defensively. If they did go all-in and you didn't respect them you would be close to losing already.

This was really interesting to hear your thoughts in particular as the best player in the world right now (I'm posting the day after NAC4). If thumb ring is so useful in late castle and imp, how come Pros still like the Britons - is the extra range really so powerful? (I have potato micro, so maybe I don't appreciate it 😂)

@teddyhaines6613

Жыл бұрын

The extra range allows Britons in castle age and onwards to outrange mangonels and elite skirmishers, the units you usually depend on to counter archers. So Britons are good because they basically break the counter system. Also don't underestimate their economy. The cheaper town centers are a huge advantage because wood is often at a premium in early to mid castle age.

In general, infantry civs don't have mobility. We need a ram like unit from barracks, perhaps even takes 0 pop space, with 0 attack, 100hp, that just transports upto 15 infantry at a speed higher than ram. 100 wood cost to increase infantry speed sounds fair.

I play as Dravidians most of time like >95% I like to play as Vikings and whenever I do they are such a breeze compared to Dravidians. Viking economy so good and their infantry gets a good civ bonus which is way better than Dravidians. And Vikings also have knights as well their Berserks/infantry deal bonus damage against Cavalry. All these makes Vikings desirable. Their nerf os pretty understandable.

This one was a real nice watch, I'd like to see more like it 👍

Really like the new chieftans tech giving gold for echo unit kills. Adds flavor and if fun to set up and play

good value here. i don't have a source for developer updates so this is great. I think if i had a list of the dev changes, i still wouldn't completely understand the impact in the game. so the breakdowns in detail is great. { i play teutons/would love a teutons current overview video.} Even if my civ doesn't get updated. Other civs updates im sure impact me as much. again thnkyou. Tom

I'm almost exclusively a TGs player and this is a good reason of why. If I get viks on most TG maps I can almost certainly get to the late game where I can fully upgrade berserks and just go that + siege rams into the whole lot of cav civs in the game currently. Even vs paly I'd argue berserks are very cost efficient though they obviously don't win the fights but I mean your teammates are there for a reason right? And then on 1v1 berserks are still more expensive than paly even after all those buffs, which is an idealist unit you won't get to pull out in most 1v1 games unless you're burgundians ofc. Your opponent pretty much has to let you win in order to get to that super expensive comp in a 1v1. And then I don't ban arabia but that is also a pretty miserable map in TGs because the xbow/kt meta is pretty much unavoidable so you end up in the same situation where you have bad xbow and nothing else. I really prefer boom maps because overall balance is way less impactful like if you get dravidians in a TG vs a 1v1 it's two completely different situations.

Exclusively played Vikings for about two or three months to learn how to play archers. They are nerfed to oblivion now, no reason to pick them over any other archer civ lol

I think in general all infantry should receive a buff. It's really hard to find the circumstances where non anti-cavalry infantry is actually useful. So for classic infantry civs like vikings or japanese right know the game it's hell. Not only the heavy infantry is useless most of the time, but they are also outdated. I really hope they improve the infantry on the game. Everything is archer or cavalry.

Nice vid and congrats on your recent results!

Oh wow, speaking of co-incidence, I just used Viking to beat 2 V 2 extreme AIs. Got Viking through random civ.

idk, I mostly saw vikings picks on water maps, and never saw the full potential of berserker+chieftains against a cavalry/camel civilization on land....

Im 13xx and usually don't play vikings however when i random them against poles and can hold out until mid castle age i find them particularly good. Getting cheiftan beserkers has been so useful after poles make their obuch switch and they still counter the spam knights decently.

Aaaaaand buffed! 11

They seem to want to popularize the new civs, making them strong and nerfing the classics, so that they can make more people to buy the DLCs. But over time they will likely balance them out again. A similar trend can be seen in vehicular combat sims, with tanks/aircraft/battlehships. Whenever a new vehicle is introduced, especially a premium one you have to pay for, it is usually overpowered at the beginning. And only after several months will it receive gradual nerfs to make it more balanced.

Let's talk about Slavs. They're great in terms of options (except anti-archery) but damn, apart from siege discount and nerfed farming bonus, they really have nothing for them. What could make them great ? Thought about giving them Druzhina as a permanent bonus to make their infantry somewhat unique and threatening + giving them an imperial tech that would give them bonus resistances. What do you think ?

Viking is my fav islands civs purely due to longboats. I love that unit, reminds me a lot of Hititi ships in AoE I. No practical or common sense, simply love them. Also Berserks look so damn cool. Playing for the beauty of the game is fine thing to do, from time to time.

At least there are two vikings left fighting at the top. Fatsob and Viper.

I'm here post gambisons patch.

20+ years ago I used to only play post-imp DM games with the vikings. Now i feel post imp DM games are stupid, so I'm basically a 20+ year AOE noob.

What do you think about +1 atk with Bogsveigar added in 81058, does it make a big of difference? It's still way more expensive than Thumb Ring, needs imp, and needs a castle to be researched.

And now Vikings have been buffed. Let's see how they will perform on April

Best thing that happend to this game for years was the xbow-line getting more expensive. makes no sense that the archer player can spam fully uppgraded arbalest with just 1 tc/40 vills while oppenent is on 90 vills with 4 stables making a much more expensive unit that just dies instantly.

@krystofcisar469

Жыл бұрын

Its just age of knights now... That nerf sucked ass

Looking at data from NAC4 Vikings were played there in 10 games, they won 6 and lost 4. Even though a small sample size, this is kind of significant when we take into account that these games were played by the consistently best of the best players in the world. On which maps were the Vikings picked? Mainly on Golden Swamp and Northern Isels. That suggests that Vikings are indeed a very good option on hybrid and water maps. Which raises the question: Does every civ need to be perfectly balanced for 1v1 Arabia or is it also ok if civs are just balanced for a certain kind of map or playstyle? If we agree on the ladder, Vikings are in my opinion in a very fine position and are not in need of a big buff or change.

@josephoregan7292

Жыл бұрын

Golden Swamp was barely a hybrid map though, unless you count seige sitting in the shallows. Barely any land army was made in any games.

The moment the Indian expansion came out I said they kinda tanked half the civs. Camels especially have become a ridiculous unit.

I wonder if Hera's opinion on the vikings is the same. they are still positive on winrate today. Other civs are way worse off.

I don't play much the Vikings but i indeed noticed the difference whithout thumbring, is quite huge because it let you with no other choice than rushing imp and get berserker but even with your bounuses is to slow....

Vikings are the civ that supposed to be balanced by the fact that despite having ridiculous eco bonus, they have limited tech tree options, to compensate they were given a supposedly strong unique unit with plenty of upgrades where you can spend your enormous resources at. Sounds familiar? Yeah that's design philosophy of Bengalis. Admitedly Bengalis are pretty terrible on release, however, Bengalis at least has things going on now with their recent buffs that pushed them into monk plays. Vikings don't have this luxury, they are similarly designed and both are similarly have wide gaping hole during castle age, but while Bengalis can monk siege push to buy time, Vikings can't and they remained having gaping hole. You could argue that knights can fill the hole but knights doesn't transition well for later stage, this is like Goths who also forced to field knight to fill the gap between feudal agression and imp deathball, but unlike Vikings, Goths at least have Hussars and bloodlines so they can switch back from huskarls to hussars when gold started to became a problem, Vikings don't have such option. With that in mind, I feel like Vikings need a good late game option and something to fill the hole in mid game. One way is to swap Chieftain and Berserkergang and rework Berserkergang, make them affects all infantries as well as making them move faster. That way even if monk siege is not possible for Vikings, you at least have a solid pike siege push with the added bonus of long swordsman that move faster and regenerate hp.

I don't play fast, I like naval units and longer games so it seems like a grave injustice to ancient Scandinavia when I can't put 10 Berserk's on a Longboat. That's what they do, that's all they do.

Viking cavalry is better choice than infantry in most cases when you are short on resource. If you make a transition to infantry as Viking you spent a lot of resources on upgrades, and even then the infantries are still not necessarily better than cavaliers because they are not fast.

my hot take is that Zergs are quite often a Trap and especially against Cav you should go Champions with Chieftains. The production is simply much much better and you can push faster bc you can mass Trebs at the same time. not saying it turns them into a Top5 civ again but "lets sit there lose 3 castles trying to mass Berzergs and somehow hail mary that shit" isnt really a plan.

I miss playing Vikings 😢

Hera: in Nili's AMA recently, he hinted at upcoming infantry balance changes. Are you privvy to any of that information? I agree Vikings do need something, it's a shame you don't see them on the ladder anymore. Maybe a video about "the button"; how it can win games, should it be nerfed (like Sicilians 5 Serjeants from 5 TCS), or completely replaced? Nice vid and congrats on NAC4!

Give them another unique unit, trainable at the barracks. Call them "Raider" and they will be sort of like an Eagle Warrior, but a bit worse. Cost only food or at most 50f, 10 gold.

The nerfs were not intended for Vikings per se but for that one viking winning most tournaments, the Viper. Didn't work, tho.

@paweborkowski6959

Жыл бұрын

When the devs took thumb ring away, viper got his hand injury.

Vikings being an archer civ in general was always a mistake that deserved to be corrected. Now that they are an infantry civ as they should, FE just need to keep buffing infantry until it becomes a viable alternative to xbow / knights and vikings will be viable again

@brothir

Жыл бұрын

No, it wasn't a mistake as it was obviously designed that way along with other civs. A counterpart to Vikings is Britons, in that both have (had) solid infantry and archers but weak cavalry, with Vikings obviously favoring infantry and Britons archers. A civ having two of three of good inf, archer, cav was how it was supposed to be. Forcing Vikings to be inf only was misguided, and the wrong way to rebalance them.

@majungasaurusaaaa

Жыл бұрын

They weren't an "archer" civ. Their arbs were just generic FU. It's just that infantry is largely useless in AoE2.

With the changes that were just announced, this video might not be relevant for very long...

@pokefuranku

Жыл бұрын

6:54 And then they will receive a tech with +1 attack to arbalester XD I hope vikings do better now c:

Up the beserker heal to be the upgraded value by default. Then make beserkergang heal ALL infantry.

@krystofcisar469

Жыл бұрын

weird... They do regenerate by default tho (berserks)

The champion! 🏆

Yo hera when are you going to continue the ultimate guides to the rest of the civs?

As a rule most infantry civs are struggling and in my opinion it’s mostly cus infantry don’t really have a place, they get out ran by knights and picked off by archers, instead of the rock paper scissors stile of balance that we have with the trash units, I mean let’s be honest the only reason champions exist is to kill eagle warriors. Maybe infantry as a whole would be better if they were a little faster or had more of a unique roll, which some absolutely do, but even then it’s more situational than anything. So why would I go with an infantry civ where I have to level up a tech tree for a unit I might make use of when I could just go with an archer or cav civ, I mean I’m already gonna be teaching into at least one of those with the infantry civ anyways.

They’ve low key turned Vikings into Celts/Goths

Vikings picker. No thumb ring hurts your options a lot. 1) You can get out archer-ed by Japanese and Drividians, and for both civs out infantry. 2) You lack brute force and pop efficiency of Bulgarians / Teutons 3) You have a great economy but it still can't keep up with the Goths spam 4) Arb / Beserk minus thumb ring just isn't as a good as HCA + literally any meat sheild 5) Also remember that other Unique Infantry units received a good buff as well I find your window is late castle, early imp. By late castle, I mean you decide to go all in pikes + siege + xbow + anti calvary unique tech. By early Imp, you are trying some kinda arb + trebuchet + lots and lots of trash push. Like think Goth spam level trash push with the trebuchet targetting castles and production buildings. Don't get me started on water......

@krystofcisar469

Жыл бұрын

I always thought thats the way one should play vikings... You spam pikes/siege and crossbow (you almost dont need that unique tech - its better to be imp) and you will dominate... Eventually your strong eco bonus kicks in most advancing to imp so you can easily afford either trebs and infantry or arbalest and siege ram or whatever else you need. I have like 60%winrate with vikings (lot of arabia or nomad) but that was mostly before last patch.

@rurouniad

Жыл бұрын

@@krystofcisar469 It's a mixed bag. You aren't wrong. With Vikings IMHO you mainly go IMP for trebuchet and siege RAM. Maybe for the last infantry armor tech. But remember a +2 + UT pike in castle is as good as most civs halbs and it doesn't cost 1800 res. The problem is as we state. Once 2-3 imp techs for your opponent come in that Vikings don't get. They just have the better comp most games.

I say give the Vikings thumb ring back as that’s been apart of their identity for over 20 years I get why they took it away to drive them to be more an infantry civ but they should still have at least a more generic archery range as they have heavily nerfed the archery range by making the archer line upgrades significantly more expensive which has in turn affected the vikings they already have a fairly weak stable as it is with no bloodlines nor the last armour upgrades to follow suite they do need to have some options available to them for countering units not just solely pushing them to be an infantry only civ

@thomasvial3470

Жыл бұрын

And that goes for all civs that are infantry civs not just solely pushing them to use only infantry by weakening other production buildings to the point where it’s either too expensive or take away too many upgrades can’t have it both ways yes the Vikings are generally classed as an infantry civ however having a generic archery range has been apart of their identity for over 20 years while having a weak stable with almost all of the import upgrades missing from their stable line

Aztecs also had a sad downgrade over time

Hera's bringing balance to the game. He's the chosen one!

Congrats on the NAC 4 win, Hera!

@Drauglinn

Жыл бұрын

Ty for spoilers

@justinleandoer6821

Жыл бұрын

Spoiler

@AvyScottandFlower

Жыл бұрын

@@Drauglinn Sorry guys, I thought everyone knew already.. It's an epic finale!

Let them have thumb ring but take away the last armor. Easy fix imho. Let’s them be dangerous in castle and fast imp but still forces an infantry switch late game.

FATSLOB: This is fine.😅

I've always hated the xbow and arbalest nerf.

Yea i feel so sad with vikings :(

Fun fact for you hera, vikings losing thumb ring and gaining +1 attack to arbs made them the scariest arbs for malians 😂 malians went from taking 2 damage cs c Viking arbs to taking 3 damage. Making viking arbs the only ones in the game capable of stopping a malian longsword flood.

But you say it on arabia, on recent tournaments on water such as northern, people plays it, so the civ now can be considered as dravidians which it has thumb ring. So its worth to mention that another inf/water civ has thumbring while the other doesnt. And then we need to add the fact that dravidians have a better tech tree and their eco bonus on water maps are even compared to vikings (on water maps, free wheel and hand cart are considered good but not as good as on arabia, wherebis considered best eco bonus in arabia by many)

Those farms should not be able to be placed like this. I like it and dislike it at the same time.