i feel bad for the 800s on gwr - DfT ruined the initial perception of them with the botched electrification projects and the governments shortsightedness

@Lee_303

10 ай бұрын

Years ago, they were being touted as "IEP" for shorter 'mainline' routes. An example was Northampton where they proposed an IEP "45 minutes to Euston" journey. Of course the HST needed replacing so they were diverted to the HST routes instead. And the DfT already hit them with the austerity stick so here we are with painful seating, lack of catering on some routes & yaw damping mountings cracking on them. Really, all long distance routes should be long trains locomotive hauled & the shorter, units filling in the gaps.

@Likasense

2 ай бұрын

The dft doesn't know sh*t, they just complain about random stuff

The 450s are usually under appreciated, they are my local trains. As you said, “they tick off all the boxes.” I couldn’t agree more.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this series. A well deserved 3rd for the class 397 too, rode them for the first time just before and after Christmas to visit family and was very pleased with the experience, great trains

444s are some of my favourite trains in the uk so it's nice to see them place 1st (honestly all the classic desiros deserved the high ranking they've gotten, they're just very good trains). they're so perfect for what they do and they are REALLY good looking. taking one from clapham junction to weymouth was a very pleasant experience.

The 140mph speed limit of the 80x IEP trains is only their potential top speed. In practice, they are limited to 125mph due to the lack of in-cab signalling, and physical track restrictions that should've been fixed with British Rail's modernisation plan many decades ago. However their top speed is still a big factor in acceleration, as a vehicle will accelerate faster at the same speed if it has a higher potential top speed, as the acceleration curve tends to flatten off closer to the top speed.

@OnTheRailwayOfficial

Жыл бұрын

They do have the capability of in cab signalling but its the infrastructure as usual that doesn't allow it 🙄

@TheRip72

10 ай бұрын

140mph is not feasible. They tried it with the class 91s but the extra speed only allows them to catch up with slower services more quickly then follow behind. Expensive upgrades just to achieve this was considered a waste. The only answer is to build more lines so the fast trains have exclusive use to them. The chosen solution for this is HS2.

@BritishTrainspotting

10 ай бұрын

The simple solution is to increase the speeds of other trains. Better use of the fast lines AND increasing acceleration of trains that stop more frequently will avoid the problem of fast trains catching up with slower trains

@TheRip72

10 ай бұрын

@@BritishTrainspotting There is not a simple solution at all. Local trains accelerate pretty rapidly now. Trains geared for faster running accelerate more slowly. Their gearing is already optimised for the services they are designed for. But local trains still have to stop. That is their purpose & they cannot all be shoved on to the slow lines, which do not even exist everywhere. Most fast lines are already at their safe limit between trains. Faster trains require bigger gaps. Other countries have faster services on dedicated high speed lines.

@BritishTrainspotting

10 ай бұрын

Yes they can accelerate pretty rapidly, but so many trains on the network are old and DONT accelerate quickly nor do they have great top speeds. Mixing different trains on the same line is absolutely not an efficient solution, but the government will never bother putting the money in to making dedicated lines for trains so we need to find solutions that the government would stubbornly agree to, such as improving acceleration of slower trains. While yes modern trains have very impressive acceleration, I do not believe they are at their limit.

This is a great series I'm sure we all loved it. Great work as always GW!

An interesting video series could be a ranking of all the private operators past and present since BR privatisation.

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

I have considered that actually, I'll probably make it one day.

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

@The Train Enthusiast Unfortunately they've been withdrawn.

i love the class 397 and i hope 1 day they come through stalybridge

I don't think anyone understands how happy I am that the 444 is top 🤣

Odd I disliked your take on the 313 so much yet 100% agree on the 444, amazing class of trains. love them

Siemens electric trains are the best in my oppinion regardless the interiors configuration. Second place goes directly for Bombardier Derby familly of trains specially Turbo and Electrostar units that ar the predecessors of Aventras. Thank you for sharing your very interesting work.

Loved the 379, took it all the time when heading to college at Stansted, very comfortable to the point where i fell asleep and ended up late as i went back in the other direction a few times

@GWVillager

10 ай бұрын

They are great trains, it's such a shame they no longer have any use.

444s are perfect imo, they don’t need to be flashy or overly fast, they are simple and get the job done and when you’re in Portsmouth it’s quite literally the only class (other than 450) they use because as said “ they just work”. I’m gonna try and build a 5” gauge model of one at some point because I find them to be so under appreciated by some people.

@Lee_303

10 ай бұрын

Yes, this unit should've really been introduced elsewhere on the network (I believe like its suburban cousins it has the pantograph well on one of the roofs for dual or AC conversion?), to places like Norwich, Birmingham etc. But in this country, politics overrides common sense.

@thatcommentaccount69

9 ай бұрын

@Lee_303 none are actually equipped with pantographs but they all have spaces on the roof where one could be fitted in.

Great list! I've been on I think nearly all of these apart from the electrostar. I think I'd say my top 5 were: 1. Class 801 (specifically 801215. Best rail journey I've done from York to London) 2. Class 374 3. Class 390 4. Class 350 (its an electric 185 so whats not to love) 5. Class 331 (right this is not because its actually my 5th best but because the acceleration is so good, it makes the journey 10x better than a boring 319 etc)

More and more new trains and rolling stocks are coming into service next year. Including Avanti West Coast Class 805 and Class 807 AT300. East Midlands Railway Class 810 “Aurora” AT300. Transport for Wales Class 231, Class 398 Tram-train and Class 756. Tyne and Wear Metro Class 555. New Glasgow Subway stocks. South Western Railway Class 701 “Arterio”. c2c Class 720/6 and many more new trains coming into service from 2023. Also I do think that the Class 379s should go to ScotRail to replace the Class 318 and Class 320 used on the Strathclyde suburban routes around Glasgow as they are at storage and are like 12 years old.

@EGPFAviation

Жыл бұрын

you know, if they got shortened to 3 coaches, it might actually work.

@AndrewG1989

Жыл бұрын

Indeed

I more or less agree with this! Great video by the way. The only points of disagreement I have are (surprise surprise) with the Class 80Xs. They look really good in my opinion, but they're incredibly underwhelming. The interior ambience and passenger comfort are my biggest gripe (looking at you GWR). Now, LNER does dilute the infamy of the horrid interiors a smidge but honestly not by much. I'm certainly not giving passenger comfort a 7/10 but probably a 6/10 instead. The first-class seats aren't bad, but definitely, a big step down, and the standard class seats (ones that aren't by GWR) are mediocre but still a slight step down too. I certainly prefer the Mark 3 and 4 coaches more, but the Class 801 and 803 are still decent trains. The Class 800s and 802s are appalling and race their way down to the worst 10 EMUs in modern history. Build quality on them is poor, and passenger comfort is close to being nonexistent. GWR should really snap up those retired Mark 4s and bring back a touch of nostalgia. The Class 390 and 397 rightly bag the top spots as they're superb EMUs, in my opinion, 125mph on a Pendolino feels a lot faster than 125mph on any other train capable of that. Props to the buttery smooth performance, and tilting function I suppose.

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

I agree with you on the 800/802s, but this list was purely on EMUs, hence I only included 801s which I think are rather good. Thank you for the kind words though!

@profmargins

Жыл бұрын

@@GWVillager 800/802s with a seat and lighting refurbishment would make them better than hstss

Next do sets of locomotive + coaches video

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

Possibly one day, though I have other plans for the moment.

@oldtechnobodycaresabout

Жыл бұрын

@@GWVillager I can understand these videos must be really boring to make.

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

@@oldtechnobodycaresabout They are a little, I much prefer the analysis stuff.

About the Windows I can confirm why they are so small cos my friends dad works for avantia ad a guard he said the trains are built like tanks and the windows have to be small incase of stone flicking up to the windows

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

Interesting, is it as they tilt?

@leighmenzie5904

Жыл бұрын

@@GWVillager no it is because kf the high speed an appologies for the late reply

@blackjockofmangertonpele

Жыл бұрын

The windows are small (low height) to restrict view and passengers getting a 'seasick' feeling from looking down.

If this video had been made 50 years ago, well, over 50 years ago, it would have been the ten best British trains not the best ten trains in Britain...

Although i think the 444 should be lower ranked, great video

In my personal opinion the Class 390 is at the top, but apart from that I can pretty much agree with what you said in the video

If you wish the class 397s should be rolled out on the rest of the network, maybe you should look at LNER’s new trains. 👀

YESSSS, Class 444 is my favourite

That LNER 800 1st looks lovely. I believe that we are one of the few countries that have carpets in their trains. I wonder if the 1st Class Universal bog is anything like the one on the GWR 800s, poshest train bog that I've been in anywhere in the world. Worst was russia or Thailand which is basically a hole in the floor 😮

Wait I've got a story. I was spotting a class 777 in lime street underground and we went on the Manchester Train on a 323. We went out of Liverpool. We went to wavertree. And the train stalled. Then we went broad green fine. Then roby. Stalled. Stalled again. We were still at Roby after 10 munites with the speaker saying. This is broad green this Is huyton even know it was Roby. Then we were there for another 15 munites and then the driver said the train was now cancelled and we had to go at Helens Central on the different line. Then the next week we got the 777 out of new Brighton and that train broke down too. Specificly the 777004

I agree the 444 is my fav train I love it

great ranking - 390s and 800s are my top 2 followed closely by 397s, its a big shame they are shorter wish we had 9 car and 10 car 397s

I think, as far as EMUs go, the long distance, high speed express units such as 800, 373, 390 need to be considered separately from regional and local trains - they're just not competing at the same game. Having said that, I'm surprised you can give 7/10 to the 801 for comfort! I agree they're great in many respects, particularly performance and looks, but they are the absolute most uncomfortable long-distance train around and are almost universally hated for that. While the first class is bearable, standard is horrid and I avoid it at all costs.

Could you one day do a ranking on bi-mode trains?

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

Possibly one day, but there aren't really enough for me to make one any time soon.

We don't get many electric trains in my part of the west Midlands but I will say I have a top 3 from the hanfull I've road on, the class 390, 232 & 350s

444 is really good as well

Any guess what my favourite EMU is

@B-A-L

7 ай бұрын

No

The 444 is great! But the doors suck. I get them every day and half the, the door needs pushing open.

How did you work out 7 for passenger comfort on the 450? I'd give it a 4, and first class is lucky to get a 2 (yes, the SWR 450 must be the only units where standard class is more comfortable than first). Even combining the comfort scores only adds up to 6. Add a point just for tha sake of it. Ah, now I see how you came up with 7.

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

Yeah in retrospect 7 feels a little high. I gave it that as I thoroughly enjoy travelling on them, and the spaciousness is notable.

@alexpeak16

Жыл бұрын

@@GWVillager The 450s are everything a Desiro should be - about 2000 times better than the godawful 700s. Shame that SWR have tried their best to ruin the 444s though, even though they're still great trains. South West Trains had 1-2 in First Class but SWR have made it 2-2 for no reason.

@andrewoakeshott7759

11 ай бұрын

Agreed, the rating for the 450 needs to be a smidge lower. Thing is, there is a distinctive difference between the 450s and 444s. The combination of the 444's (single) doors being express-train style at either end of the carriage with doors to separate the vestibule area from rest, significantly more leg-room (very important for taller people like myself, the leg-room in 444s is very good, in 450s you're cramped) and 2+2 seating make them a considerable upgrade to the 450s. The 450s are very good for what they do (i.e. slow & high-capacity stopping service), but then the 444s are nicer all-around. However, what I've really been waiting for is for Siemens to release a replacement to the 444s (as they said they would). Seriously, the 444s are ridiculously good and for sort-of regional-express services, which covers a lot of the UK outside the "high-speed" trunks of the GWR, ECML, WCML, HS1 and (future) HS2, they would be ideal.

DO A LOCOS ONE!

Sorry but give me a comfortable HST or class 91 with their longer journey times everyday of the week over tha 800 series. History has shown thay rail trav e l is becoming more and more uncofortable with every new generation of train. The same thing goes for air travel where the seats are shite ans they cram more and more in creating a toxic travel environment that makes things worst when a passanger snaps and becomes abusive.

Class374 .each of my journeys the😊😊oscillating has been so bad the pantograph has almost ripped the overhead down.i suggest you travel towards the rear of a 374 to get a true idea of the ride quality.

Can you do the same for all the locomotives?

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

Possibly one day, but I'm a bit tired of the rankings for now.

@smudgycat6750

Жыл бұрын

@@GWVillager alright then

For the class 350 you forgot to add that they go 110mph and the /1 has DC, so it is practically better in everyday to the 450s

While I appreciate the benefits of the tilting functionality on the West Coast mainline, it does have a habit of making people feel a little nauseous. At least that was my experience when I took them as a kid.

@TheRip72

10 ай бұрын

But the tracks are & always have been tilted anyway. The APT compensated completely & this caused sickness because the physical sensation of staying flat while the eyes could see you were tilting confused the brain.

507 should be on here. Don’t get me wrong but they have so many little quirks

444 044 is my favourite of all! Upwey for the win!

801: Completely agree that they're underrated, I personally find the seats comfortable. They just shouldn't have done 5 carriage IETs, they could do with all being 10 or 11 cars. 379: Fantastic trains but tragically underused. 450: Good trains but wouldn't rate them that high 350: Fantastic trains 803: love them but again could do with being longer 390: Completely disagree, I'm not a fan at all. The seats are comfortable and ride quality is amazing but they just feel so cramped and I hate the seating layout. 397: Transpennine have some of my favourite trains in the UK in terms of ambience, shame they're useless at actually operating them. 444: Good trains but the lack of luggage storage is a major issue.

No train that flies a connecting door through the landscape, often even offensively painted yellow, can be called "good looking". Marks for aesthetics: 0.

is it just me who thinks the 444 is the 442 + 450

Unfortunately for the 444, they're operated by SWR.

Is it just me that hasnt seen the 802 on any of the videos

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

It's not an EMU, that's why. It's bi-mode

@fphtrains

Жыл бұрын

Oh ya I was just thinking bc u mentioned it lol

Having recently been on both the Class 373 and 374, I would swap them around. The ride quality let's the 374 down, you really feel every bump (that seems to be a recurring theme with new vs old stock) the 373 is better and I would say the other categories would be the same for both classes. I wish I gone to look at the 374's buffet in person since it looks amazing, but the train was busy and I had food with me so I didn't bother.

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

I would be inclined to agree - I prefer travelling on 373s - however other factors that are less obvious such as acceleration, spaciousness, flexibility, reliability and cost push the 374s up in the grand scheme of things.

The 387s have left c2c I hope great northern keep the blue doors because the great northern livery is plane

A Ponce with an opinion that is rightly out of place

If bi-mode was included then the 755 would be at the top for sure

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

Probably. They're very good.

444 is good for goinbg to portsmouth

397s: train reliable, yes but transpennine express: not so much

i don't like the 390 because the highspeed makes me sick

personally have to disagree with the eurostars, I much much much prefer the 373s to the 374s for the safety features, the ability to run when spilt, in half for the euro tunnel, and the comfort, just my thoughts

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

I personally prefer the 373s yes, though I think in the grand scheme of things the 374s are better trains. I don't see the point in having trains comply with the UK loading gauge if they're not to be operating off HS1.

@spottig_pt2

Жыл бұрын

@@GWVillager certainly, the ideal would be the best of both, width and body of the velaro (I think that's how it's spelt) of which the 374 is based with the ability to be easily spilt and seats of the 373, if that were to happen we'd be onto a winner

I watched the whole video....then got to your #1. Are you mental? I used to love 442 journeys from London to Weymouth. I did one on a 444 and swore I'd never do so again. Hideously uncomfortable. Why are you giving 8/10 score for seats that wouldn't be out of place in the Tower of London!?

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

You must be mistaken - the 444 seats are fantastic and usually considered amongst the best in the country.

@mburland

7 ай бұрын

@@GWVillager have they changed since 15 years ago?

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

@@mburland No, but they will have softened up considerably.

@mburland

7 ай бұрын

@@GWVillager I'll take your word for it. Have you had a chance to try the FLIRT 745's?

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

@@mburland No, not yet. But I have tried the similar Class 231s.

Class 374s should not be on this ranking as they are not designed to run on British Rail Metals compared to their company mates 373s that sadly no more run out of their internationsl routes after HS1 construction and East Coast mainline trial failure. But 374s look and sound great. Further more is not a single production requirement to British Rail Network making them a purely Continental train. Thei are wider than british trains and many continental trains though!

I don't know how much lner paid you to that

Class 397s are for me the most beautiful trains in the Northwests of England but...is always a but and their riding quality is as poor as their sister classes 195,196,197 and 331 units. Furthermore if you notice a huge mistake, the only i can find on their very good interiors with panoramic windows, is the continuous overhead luggage rack under the lower roof sections of Pantograph Trainler coaches where obviously no items can at all be stored although those tiny inches of hight still there for no purpose but aesthetic, and that is very bad, or else i would just rate as bad feature riding quality. You channel says more of this trains should run if more lines were electrified and i say that no more orders of this trains should be placed under this conditions i mentioned, rather prefer much more class 350s as propper trains the latter are although heavier and more power consumers.

The 373's are not EMUs!

too bad that c2c is nowhere to be seen

@GWVillager

Жыл бұрын

It is, in the other parts.

@teletubbyboi4207

Жыл бұрын

@@GWVillager i found that out minutes later

WHAT!!! 444 (and 450) Disastros ride horribly. They've got the suspension of a donkey cart. I was a guard on the Pigs - 442s when they were introduced in 1988; you could run through them whilst they were at top speed 100mph. How on earth you find the seats comfortable too is beyond me, do you not have any nerve endings in your body? Try that with a Disastro donkey cart suspension and you'll rip your knees out. Even at low speed you're chucked all over the place. As for the driving experience I would rather drive an old 400 slam door (can't beat the 159s though at my other depot Salisbury). It would have been interesting to see where 442s would have come, certainly far more comfortable than a Disastro with a far superior ride quality, better to drive too. The only real niggle I had with them, sitting over some bogies there was a constant tinny rattle as if something was loose. Well liked by the punters though (the trains not the rattle). Last trains with compartments too of course.

All I can say for this is 444 is ugly, also I watched all 3 parts and I couldnt find 345