Great video. Agree with all the points made. Decent trains ruined by the department for transport trying to be cheap and cut corners like they have been for the past 60 years

@chriswaites1222

7 ай бұрын

DfT being incompetent and not being able to get fit for purpose trains for £5.8bn more like. Other countries manage to do it for less money so cost shouldn't be the fatal factor.

@daydays12

2 ай бұрын

GWR is responsible.

The reason for the short formations is because the Castles are being wound down but instead of being replaced with new trains they are just spreading the existing fleet more thinly. There are far fewer 10-car sets running than there used to be - most of those are now running as 9s (or even as single 5s), and that has left gaps where they used to have 9s and they are now being subbed with 5s. It was a ridiculous decision to scrap that many trains without any replacements, and short formations on intercity services was the inevitable consequence.

@hi-viz

7 ай бұрын

There is the possibility that Transport for Wales' Class 158's will move over to GWR when they get replaced

@stevieinselby

7 ай бұрын

@@hi-viz Let's hope so - 2+2 class 158 formations for the Cornish main line and Portsmouth services should be the goal.

@timlewis1165

7 ай бұрын

Again the case of the SRA not thinking of passengers tbh.

@keithtanner2806

7 ай бұрын

Your shorter formations are now approaching what we have had to endure in the North for decades. Even now we count ourselves lucky to get even 5 carriages on anything other than Avanti.

@philipkay8116

7 ай бұрын

What is here is the classic case of making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The trains are - as has been displayed - poorly thought out and, in some cases built. It all really started with the farce that became the GWR electrification programme that was abandoned half way through. The wires should have gone through to Swansea, Plymouth (both B&H and Bristol T.M.) and Oxford. The Penzance - Plymouth/Cardiffs could then have seen a modern sort of 5 car 159. But that's sensible and Britain's railways have never done sensible. The most comfortable seats that I ever experienced on a modern train were the original ones with the dark blue colour on the 377s. For some reason some were fitted with soft luxurious ones with dark blue covers and some were fitted with ironing board ones with light blues covers. They were all😅 changed for ironing board ones quite soon after introduction.

Wouldn’t be tricky or that expensive to fix things. Step 1: remove the seats Step 2: replace the carpet Step 3: change the lighting Step 4: put different seats in Done:

@cameronallan5624

7 ай бұрын

You could even coincide this with some electrification. Electrify down to Penzance and then bring the iets in to have their disel engines removed (they become electric only) which would reduce weight, energy consumption and track wear. And at the same time improve the interior.

@stephenmatura1086

7 ай бұрын

No doubt even those changes would cost a few billion pounds for the government.

@profmargins

7 ай бұрын

Great comments

@cameronallan5624

7 ай бұрын

i mean the whole Pendolino fleet of 56 trains are having their seats replaced and interior fittings redone at £117m. The GWR iet fleet consists of 57 trains (admittedly 5 and 9 car variants so not directly comparable to the Pendos). So I would expect a similar cost for the iets. Lets assume that the government electrifies the rest of the Great Western Network (££ billions) and the iets can have their disel engines removed. Factor in diesel engine removal (the iets were designed to have them relatively easy to remove) I reckon £150-200m to refurb the whole fleet. Much much cheaper than getting a whole new train manufactured. @@stephenmatura1086

@davidty2006

7 ай бұрын

Might as well slap a step 5: good repaint for good measure.

Having two units coupled together is such a flawed concept. I remember seeing a lady with a first class ticket board at Exeter, who couldn't find her seat. She was in the wrong half of the train, and because it was busy, there were no spare seats, so she had to stand for 80 minutes to Taunton. There is also the needless duplication of having four driving cabs and two kitchens! All wasted space. 9-car units would be far better

@physiocrat7143

7 ай бұрын

And all the stuff that talks to the signalling system.

@davidty2006

7 ай бұрын

That do be the issue with MU sets... You can't get the exact train you need easily. it's overkill or overloaded.

@physiocrat7143

7 ай бұрын

With 9 car units you end up with a lot of empty seats off peak. The Waterloo Bournemouth Weymouth service was done right between 1967 and 1988.

@physiocrat7143

7 ай бұрын

@@davidty2006 Bad idea. Loco haufed sets which can be split are the way to do long distance routes.

Ive always been a Class 80S defender and fan, but that list of problems at the start was hard to argue with😕 The carpets looking like crap already is such a small thing I hadn't really thought about as a broad trend but does stand out in making the trains feel not-at-all premium.

Regarding track wear from fitting heavier bogies - The DfT could offset this by completing electrification to Oxford, Swansea and Exeter (both routes), something that should have been done decades ago. Then the IETs wouldn't need to carry the extra weight of diesel engines and diesel fuel all over the place, as is the case on the east and west coast mainlines.

@sglenny001

7 ай бұрын

Just make the first "mega project" election of the entire network this will hopefully reinforce British engineering

@johnwilliams-gz4ss

7 ай бұрын

What about West of Newton Abbot, where you really need the power. Or are you going to get everybody to change train at Exeter? The whole project is a typical DoT shambles.

@leonblittle226

7 ай бұрын

I very much doubt you will ever see wires past Bristol, although Taunton is a possibility if they got very enthusiastic about it. I certainly would like to see a Freightliner 90 work into Fairwater yard before they are gone. The cost is always the problem and mainly the availability of sufficient power in the national grid at hand (which i think is a bigger problem than they want to admit right now). Taunton Cardiff/Padd in the hands of an EMU solution would free up a load of units! Exactly how they have managed to make an MTU power unit unreliable is amazing to my mind and needs to be investigated. I am told drivers don't give a damn about the IET and just get in and hammer them, as it's not a big power unit and isn't even in the vehicle with the driving cab they are somewhat detached from the mechanical stress and actions - unlike a 150 or HST power car you can feel its behaviour or bad reactions.

@DewtbArenatsiz

7 ай бұрын

Dft can't bear electrifying the colonies outside London

@grassytramtracks

4 ай бұрын

​@@leonblittle226 I'm not enthusiastic about Bath ever seeing wires either

First and the fact that the old seats meet fire safety standards is so ironic.

@ashleyjiscool

7 ай бұрын

I went on a castle set last year and while the ic70 is better, These are very comfortable (but lner/cross country seats were the better,) as the quality is better then lumo (trust me I went on it form london to Edinburgh once) so these should be used on the intercity trains or hopefully the EU makes the fire safety less strict so then we can get designs like the ic70 which would put the iet (along with the bikes and buffet fixes) a Topdog in the eyes of us passengers fixing hight issues, Bike issues and Buffet issues if we introduce them on all trains, also comfort issues, then they can make them double deckers for more capacity (fitting in the standard loading gauge of the country) So we could have all of this fixed

@DENPTrains

7 ай бұрын

​@@ashleyjiscoolDouble decker trains won't ever happen in the UK, I don't think. This is because of the height of structures (such as bridges, tunnels, signal gantries etc) that would simply make it unfeasible to introduce them

@ashleyjiscool

7 ай бұрын

@@DENPTrains I mean something like the 4dd but modernised (the 4dd was double decker) but a lower hight multilevel form the New Rat City could work as well

@DENPTrains

7 ай бұрын

@@ashleyjiscool Potentially, but unsure if this design would work in a modern environment (apparently they were cramped, poorly ventilated and had longer wait times at stations) plus it was a compartment train, so you have to ask if modern 2+2 seating can fit more rather than stacked compartments

@ashleyjiscool

7 ай бұрын

@@DENPTrainsIt could be redone to be like the multi levels in nyc

Also, better window alignment

@davidty2006

7 ай бұрын

If the swiss can do it why can't we.

@barrielui

7 ай бұрын

@@davidty2006 Almost every train in Japan has seats aligned with windows, so amenities such as window blinds and coat hooks can be installed next to the windows in alignment with the seats. The people in DfT who design the interior for the new trains simply don't care about the comfort of the passengers.

Love the first class seating ideas! I wish the UK had the ability to innovate on a similar scale as central European counterparts without just having to copy them to get good trains but oh well. As for capacity, GWR honestly could do with a big expansion of their regional diesel fleet, hopefully one that could then reliably cover all of the services like Cardiff-Penzance services thus displacing IETs back to the Paddington diagrams. Hopefully that would mean the sets wouldn't have to do so many stopping services, perhaps that would have a positive impact on reliability as well.

@AzureOtsu

7 ай бұрын

well none of the trains are of british design anymore and most or if not all of the BREL knowledge has been lost to time over the various buyouts, adtranz, bombardier and finally alsthom. the electrostars were the last trains of good british based design being made on networker technology

@matthewlongstaff3112

7 ай бұрын

But, we are not supposed to be ordering any more diesels, emissions targets, you know.

TransPennine and LNER train crew and platform staff who have tried to get my bikes (which are large because I'm tall) into the bike cupboards on their versions of the Hitachi trains have described them as trains designed by people who knew nothing about trains, but then you could say the same about the Voyagers. People in GWR land might miss the HSTs, up here in the North East we miss the Class 91s and Mark 4s. I could load my bike in the DVT without getting in anybody's way, and leave it in a proper bike stand. To be fair to LNER and TransPennine, the trains seem to be better maintained than the GWR sets, and the interiors, despite the horrible seats in standard class, are pleasanter and cleaner. First class in LNER is usually quite busy, but it could be probably removed from most of the TransPennine sets to increase capacity. I have travelled with Lumo once, and the seats are more comfortable even for taller/bigger folk. The ECML has four operators using 80x trains - Hull Trains, LNER, TransPennine., and Lumo - but it is also the only mainline where passenger figures are rising - in fact, there are more passengers travelling on these services than before CoVid. This makes me wonder if the problems on GWR you describe are due to poor management as well as the trains.

@FranzTraininand

7 ай бұрын

Just jumping on this to agree with you. I live on the ECML and use LNER everyday. The trains are always busy, with people going all over the country for work and pleasure, the trains are generally very well maintained, the at seat service for food and drinks works very well and in general the staff are polite and always give regular updates if delayed etc. Having said that, I still find the ride on the Class 91 which they still run a lot better and quieter. Noticeably when you are outside, if you watch an Azuma pass through the station at full chap it is horrifically loud, but the class 91 passes in quiet, which seems odd given we are meant to be more technically advanced now... The other thing I would say, LNER pricing is actually very good. Most journeys are less expensive via train than if I had driven the same route, even for two people. However I find that GWR is horrifically expensive. Paddington to Briston circa £100 when I looked once, and that is only 1 1/2 hours. London to Newcastle was £60 for the same day. LNER seems to know what they are doing, and I hope they can keep it up.

@oliverbevan2575

7 ай бұрын

Funny that, given that LNER are government owned and operated, unlike GWR.

@Clivestravelandtrains

7 ай бұрын

I recently travelled First Class Glasgow-Edinburgh with LNER, to see what it was like. Admittedly it didn't cost much but all the headrests were broken in my area of the carriage - obviously I couldn't try every single seat in the train - and all I can say is that I was glad I wasn't going all the way down to England like that! The aisle seats have a table leg in front of you so you can't cross your legs on a 4 hour+ journey. Having said that, the on-train staff were Pure Dead Brilliant!

7:50 The current Deutsche Bahn ICE4s have inside frame bogies on their unpowered coaches, and there really isn't any difference in comfort when compared to the outside framed bogies on powered cars. This is true even at top speed, which is about 30mph higher than on the IETs. So the general concept doesn't appear to be the issue, but rather the implementation. I'm guessing the IET bogies were designed to be cheap and nothing else, which does seem to be in line with the rest of the train.

@physiocrat7143

7 ай бұрын

The IET trains were the most expensive ever.

@johnhammond5379

7 ай бұрын

@@physiocrat7143 I can only presume, then, that the DfT hadn't the least idea what it was doing. (No surprises there, I suppose).

@physiocrat7143

7 ай бұрын

@@johnhammond5379 Or that brown envelopes were exchanged. The entire procurement process was heavily criticised by the Parliamentary Accounts Committee and in a detailed report by Sir Andrew Foster but Philip Hammond Transport Secretary gave it the go ahead anyway. At that time the Mark 3 fleet had an expected future life to at least 2030. Money down the drain.

GWR staff have become quite critical of Hitachi and I don't know if that is policy or frustration on the part of staff. I was on one service and the catering provider announced "Unfortunately there will be no hot drinks available on this service because the water heating equipment isn't working. This was reported to Hitachi who are supposed to maintain these trains but nothing has been done". Of course, though, the entire 80X fleet was under-specced. The seats are just awful and the lack of any proper catering is a disgrace.This was one of Europe's most sought after train contracts and considering the money involved it's a disgrace.

governments and gwr really should hire you to improve the railway

How to fix the gwr IETS. -replace the seats with similar seats as the TGV 2N2 (a bit narrower to fit uk loading gauge) -repaint the interior -ADD A CAFE CARRIAGE -Add new toilet doors -Improve interior ambiance If this was done it would make the trains 10 times better

IET is a bloody stop gap at this point

What worries me about replacing seats is that they might squeeze more in like they did with the HST, I even prefer the hard bar on my bum to the abysmal legroom they had. I think a strip of wood or laminate flooring down the aisles would be nicer than the carpet and help break up the monotonous grey. I also find the lip around the edge of the tables pretty uncomfortable. I think the lesson is to not let DfT spec out a train ever again

@Mgameing123

7 ай бұрын

What was need was freedom for the operators to decide their replacement and interiors. Then I believe we would get better trains that were more reliable.

@Badge2812

7 ай бұрын

@@Mgameing123or alternatively we get something even worse under the guise of delivering better value to shareholders, it could go either way with most of the TOCs that operate some variant of the 800s

@Whiskey2shots

7 ай бұрын

Wood or laminate is a terrible idea. We don't live in a dry country and the H&S concerns would be significant. A dark carpet is a better option

Before the wear and tear on the seats they were already incredibly uncomfortable. Bolt upright and no reclining… So many other countries offer reclining seats on long distance train journeys !

@AliceHawke

7 ай бұрын

Absolutely, the 80x seats don't hold a candle to the seats in the mk3 carriages, absolutely farcical that these are supposed to be the long distance replacements, going from incredibly comfortable cushioning that felt like an airliner, to incredibly thin, firm, unpadded seats that feel like you're bent forwards at an 85 degree angle with the headrest bending you forwards even more, absolutely horrible experience

Fantastic video, IETs have great potential but it’s not being realised properly

Love watching these. Seeing complaints & concerns & improvement proposals about/for existing service/stations/rolling stock is very interesting from a perspective of an area vastly underserved by passenger service.. if it's served at all

I can live with the bumpy ride and dirty carpet, but for the love of god fix the seats and change the lights. Im very sensitive to light and the lights are so painful when it's even slightly dark out. Everything about the 80Xs is just cheap as possible. I miss the HSTs.

My first ever journey on a UK mainline train was a GWR class 80, and I was amazed at how poor the interior was of this flagship train. The IÉ class 22000 DMU blows it out of the water and it’s a decade older.

I'm amazed at the ability of the DfT/government to procure such poorly specified trains from otherwise decent manufacturers. Even the normally stalwart Siemens managed to make the naff 700s. For what's supposed to be a 30-40 year asset it's shockingly poor investment, which UK travelers will have to suffer with for decades. And now we find that our sole remaining UK designed manufacturer at Derby has been driven out of business, largely due to excess manufacturing capacity. Isn't competition wonderful for improving value and UK business.

@kaitlyn__L

7 ай бұрын

Good old Tory policy to penny-pinch every way they can even when it's more expensive in the long run. Conservative Chancellor after Conservative Chancellor has under-budgeted all sorts of projects, only to end-up needing to pay more later. At this point I can't imagine they're just fools, I think they must know it generates higher income for the companies which step-in to save the day, at an inflated rate, when disaster strikes. The very basic fact that infrastructure (education, health, transport, etc) is one of the best long-term investments a state can make in itself, that the long-term returns are many times larger than any initial cost, always seems to be conveniently at the back of their minds. Or they'll claim to recognise it, but then say there's still room to cut costs (even when that comes at the expense of effectiveness).

@physiocrat7143

7 ай бұрын

Civil servants always screw things up. Defence procurement is another example.

@enemyofthestatewearein7945

7 ай бұрын

@@physiocrat7143 TBH I don''t blame the civil servants, it's political, due to the obsession with open competition over sustainable industrial policy. A policy of competition over all other considerations always results in overcapacity and a race to the bottom with quality. Plus UK manufacturers are fully exposed to open international competition, while their offshore competitors are well supported by their own governments, giving them an unfair advantage. UK industrial & engineering base has been decimated with this madness.

@physiocrat7143

7 ай бұрын

@@enemyofthestatewearein7945 The IEP project was driven by the the DfT. The industry did not want the wretched things. It was also known that the Mark 3 fleet was good until the late 2030s. The specifications for the seats and interior configuration came from the DfT. Five billion was completely wasted. These trains cannot be fixed. They should go to Sims Metals.

Having been on both LNER and GWR 80Xs this year, I can at least say that the design and feel of the LNER ones is far better. They are cleaner, the red just creates a warmer atmosphere, and LNER just offers more on their trains. The LNER 800s also have a much smoother ride, though that may just be that the ECML is a better quality track than the GW line. Hitachi has luckily delayed the 810s promised to EMR in a hope to update the design and fix it. Though having been on an EMR 222 down to St Pancras, it was a much smoother ride than the GWR 802 was out to Reading. So Hitachi have to equal or better an already 20 year old design for them to get good reviews from EMR. We'll see if they can get better I guess.

@kaitlyn__L

7 ай бұрын

I think the ECML being electrified contributes majorly to the ride quality, other commenters are saying the GWML should be fully electrified to get rid of the diesel engines and improve ride quality. Certainly I know when I'm travelling down the WCML I avoid the diesel-electric Super Voyagers as best I can and try to stay on Pendolinos - with the exact same track conditions the Voyagers rattle my bones out while the Pendos are so smooth and comfortable.

@davidty2006

7 ай бұрын

Casual company bias since LNER passes newton aycliff where the trains are made?

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

The LNER ones are certainly much better. This is partly because Virgin East Coast got into a quite heated discussion with the DfT over their specification, and in the end convinced them to allow buffets and personalised interiors to be fitted.

@danlastname9002

7 ай бұрын

​@@GWVillagerInsider perspective here - GWR have fought for better interior fittings (the lime green stripes come to mind!) but Hitachi have refused to allow them, as they don't want GWR fitting out the interiors for 'product image' concerns. Bold words coming from a company that hasn't had to carry a single fare-paying passenger!

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

@@danlastname9002 A similar thing happened when specifying them in the days of Virgin Trains East Coast - but Virgin actually got their way in the end.

would say re design and replace at best the seats, roofs and engines although the 180 had un reliable engines and GWR solved that.

@Busandtrain123

7 ай бұрын

No that was first Not GWR.

@b77playz33

7 ай бұрын

@@Busandtrain123 didn’t first group own GWR and still own GWR

@Mgameing123

7 ай бұрын

FGW & GWR are the same@@Busandtrain123

@grassytramtracks

7 ай бұрын

​@@Busandtrain123GWR is still run by first. New name, but exactly the same operator

It's kind of funny, when these trains were first announced in 2013 I was kind of miffed that I'd missed my chance to use them as I'd moved back to Scotland. Then, when we finally got our 2 and 3 car DMUs between cities replaced with HSTs, I found it nostalgic but wondered how the 800s were doing. Now, especially with the refurbished carriages, I'm so glad we have the HSTs instead of the IETs up here 😅 I see others in the comments saying "bring back the HSTs!" and I'm like "noo that would be terrible, we only just got them, we had to make do with tiny wee totey trains for far too long, don't make us go back" lmao. I'm sure the IETs are better than what we put up with before the HSTs arrived, the ride quality was truly abysmal on those DMUs. This is also the first time I looked at GWR's carriage layout, and the thing that immediately sticks-out to me is there's no wheelchair space except in first class! I'm sure they'd try and spin that as a good thing, "you're getting a free upgrade, what are you upset about"; but what stands out to me is that text - _"if_ the seat is unreserved and available". _If._ That sounds to me like a bunch of businessmen could reserve every seat, including the wheelchair spaces, and even if they hadn't occupied them yet I wouldn't be allowed-on. Told to wait for the next one. Or... made to sit next to the other accessible toilet in the corridor on the other end of the train? I can't imagine that being very nice either. I'm sure that's more of an academic concern, given what you said about first class sales being so low. And certainly the free upgrade does stand in stark contrast to how a railcard ticket doesn't allow you to take a first class upgrade offer (at least the times I tried it, I was told to pay full price or get back to standard even while advertising £10 upgrades). But that possibility still rubs me the wrong way, and tells me the DfT prioritises a handful of special dining services each day over increasing the number of wheelchair spaces on every journey. It's almost like they forgot to have any wheelchair spaces at all until, late into the design, someone in the office reminded them the DDA & EA exist. I know a lot of other wheelchair users, and often travel with a friend or a partner - this is suggesting we'd take up every single space on a 9- or 5-car train, and half of all the wheelchair spaces on a 10-car one. What happens if another person on the train is travelling in a wheelchair already? 🤨 It's certainly not unheard of. Maybe 3 people could squeeze into those 2 spaces, if other passengers were okay with the corridor being a bit blocked-up. That's hardly ideal.

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

These trains really were designed with little practical considerations. The 9 car IETs do have wheelchair spaces in standard, but on the 5 cars wheelchair users are, as you say, automatically upgraded. I’m not aware of there being any instances of this having been full - but it is indeed a theoretical possibility.

@charliemcdornell

7 ай бұрын

Wheelchair users get priority, if anyone is sat in those seats they have to move if any wheelchair user boards the train. Part of some disability legislation.

Don't call them engines, Hitachi insist we call them Generating Units (GU's). Uncoupling trains anywhere is difficult because GWR haven't trained enough drivers on how to do it. The best thing about the IETs is the driving cab where some actual thought has gone in to their design. Enjoyed this video.

Given recent refurbishments across the operators it is abundantly clear that there has been a progressive watering down over last 5 years of any 1st class offering.I am pretty sure that soon it will be a thing of the past.

One relatively positive comment: when these trains run under diesel power, the engine noise in the passenger cabin is relatively muted. I have been on some Voyager units where the noise level is significantly higher. I also like the colour display of seat reservations on the IETs - you can very quickly assess where the unreserved seats are. After that, sadly, I agree with all your comments. The lighting does not affect me personally, but I fully appreciate that to others it is a real problem. The seats are, of course, on of the biggest problems. However, I also want to comment on catering, especially hot drinks. When there were buffet cars on the HSTs, you could get a pretty decent cup of coffee from the machines that had latterly been fitted (assuming they were not our of order!). A trolley provides a very lacklustre cup in comparison. Your idea about some way to get hot food is also a good one. If you are travelling all the way from London to Cornwall, the current provision is simply not good enough. Thank you for your vid, and keep up the good work!

You should have asked for some footage of the poor build quality, safe to say that I have a lot of clips of broken panels, loose seat cushions, and all sorts of stuff! 😅

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

That would have been excellent! I'll keep it in mind in future.

Bring back the HSTs at least they were comfortable I travelled to Bridgend recently and by the time we left Swindon I was most uncomfortable the seats were horrible.

@davidty2006

7 ай бұрын

Last i checked good chunk are currently just sat in sidings.... Considering theres still drivers trained on HST's and decent amount of IET drivers being former HST drivers. Should be somewhat easy enough to recommision.

@andrewlong6438

3 ай бұрын

To me it’s a no no running diesel trains under the wires in 2024. This idea is as daft as continuing to run voyagers under the wires.

@whatdoyoumeanbro4964

5 күн бұрын

48 year old diesel trains in 2024 doesn’t seem ideal

@whatdoyoumeanbro4964

5 күн бұрын

HSTs were reliable and good for punctuality but they’re too old

I wholeheartedly agree with your comments. I am not a frequent traveller but I have been on several of these units. My main gripes are the uncomfortable seats in 2nd class, the harsh and very bright overhead lighting, the poor ride quality over iffy track (I was nearly thrown to the floor not so long back on the approach to Worcester Foregate Street when the train negotiated some points). The GWR management are completely out of touch with passengers’ needs in terms of comfort.

@biscuit715

7 ай бұрын

It wasn't up to gwr, blame the dft

@geoffwba1

7 ай бұрын

I agree that the DfT are hardly blameless either and what chance have we got when there is a change of Minister every five minutes ? Do any of the people at the top actually know anything about running trains ?

@daydays12

2 ай бұрын

The GWR management don't care.

Until recently I used to take these fairly frequently between London and Bristol. One time at top speed I thought 'good grief this thing does not feel sturdy, and is rattling itself to bits, surely there's gonna be problems.' Sure enough a couple of months later they discovered the cracks. The whole train (as the lack of seat-padding constantly reminds your backside) just oozes being built to the lowest cost and quality they could possibly get away with, and then some.

@daydays12

2 ай бұрын

I hate GWR more and more

The main interface between passenger and train is their bum. Uncomfortable seats are a result of civil servants ordering trains and not engineers. Let’s hope Avanti’s are an improvement. As for 1st class it usually dead but the catering on Avanti has improved greatly of late.

Don't forget that a lot of these were built in Italy by Ansaldo-Breda (or what used to be until Hitachi bought it). That company was bankrupt, and was responsible for the exceptionally bad built quality of the Dutch V250 high speed trains, so bad that they were all returned to the factory and money paid back in a settlement.... I didn't believe that the quality under hitachi miraculously would be solved, that factory still has quality control issues.....

Cheap tat regardless of the cost. Hitachi must’ve seen them coming 🙄

@B-A-L

7 ай бұрын

Hitachi wasn't responsible for the interior.

I needed to know why they don’t dig a tunnel and do an extension for the main line Train so that they can extend the unused abandoned underground train stations. Why couldn’t they use the part D78 Stock train doors on the sides and also restructure the front face of the A60 and A62 stock that includes the class 313, class 314 and class 315 remix and make them all together and also redesign them an overhead line and also make them into Five cars per units and also having three Disabled Toilets on those Five cars per units A60 and A62 stock trains and also convert the A60 and A62 stock trains into a Scania N112, Volvo B10M, Gardner 6LXB, Gardner 6LXC and Gardner 8LXB Diesel Engines and also put the Loud 7-Speed Voith Gearboxes even Loud 8-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Gearboxes in the A60 and A62 stock, class 313, class 314, and class 315 and also modernise the A60 and A62 stock and make it into an 11 car per unit so it could have fewer doors, more tables, computers and mobile phone chargers. A Stock Trains and also having 8 Disabled Toilets on those A stock trains. why couldn’t we refurbish and modernise the Waterloo and city line Triple-Track train tunnel and make it larger and extend it to the bank station, making it into a Triple-Track Railway Line so those Five countries such as Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden to convert the waterloo and city line Triple-Track Railway tunnel into a High-Speed Railway lines? The Third Euro tunnel Triple-Track Railway line to make it 11 times better for passengers so they could go from A to B. Then put the modernised 11 car per unit A Stock and put them on a bigger modernised Waterloo and city line Triple-Track train tunnel so it could go to bank station to those Five countries such as Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden. The modernised refurbished 11 cars per unit A stock could be a High Speed The Third Triple-Track Euro Tunnel Train So it is promising and 47 times a lot more possible to do this kind of project if that will be OK for London Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden. oh by the way, could they also tunnel the Triple-Track Railway Line so it will stop from Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex so that the Passengers will go to Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland and Sweden and also extend the Triple-Track Railway Line from the Bank to Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex Stations so that more people from there could go to Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden more Easily. Why couldn't they extend the Piccadilly Line and also build brand-new underground train stations so it could go even further right up to Clapton, Wood Street can they also make another brand new underground train station in Chingford and could they extend the Piccadilly Line and the DLR right up to Chingford? All of the classes 150, 155, 154, 117, 114, 105, and 106, will be replaced by all of the Scania N112, Volvo B10M, Gardner 6LXB, Gardner 6LXC and Gardner 8LXB Diesel Five carriages three disabled toilets are air conditioning trains including Highams Park for extended roots which is the Piccadilly line and the DLR trains. Could you also convert all of the 1973 stock trains into an air-conditioned maximum speed 78 km/hours (48 MPH) re-refurbished and make it into a 8 cars per unit if that will be alright, and also extend all of the Piccadilly train stations to make more space for all of the extended 8 car per unit 1973 stock air condition trains and can you also build another Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive Companies and can they order Every 67 Octagon and Every 37 Hexagon shape LNER diagram unique small no.13 and unique small no.11 Boilers from those Countries such as Greece, Italy, Poland, and Sweden, can they make Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive speeds by up to 147MPH so you can try and test it on the Original Mainline so it will be much more safer for the Passengers to enjoy the 147MPH speed Limit only for HS2 and Channel Tunnel mainline services, if they needed 16 Carriages Per units, can they use those class 55’s, class 44’s, class 40’s and class 43HST Diesel Locomotive’s right at the Back of those 18 Carriages Per Units so they can take over at the Back to let those Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive’s have a rest for those interesting Journeys Please!!!!!!, oh can you make all of those Coal Boxes’s 18 Tonnes for all of those 147MPH Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive’s so the Companies will Understand us PASSENGER’S!! so please make sure that the Builders can do as they are told!!!!!!!!!!!! And Please do something about these Very Very Very Very Very Very important Professional ideas Please? Prime Minister of England, Prime Minister of Australia, Prime Minister of Sweden, Prime Minister of Germany, Prime Minister of Italy, Prime Minister of Poland and that Includes the Mayor of London.

Is that Julie Berry at the end? Nice touch!

Cheap fix: call them ICs. Whoever came up with the ridiculous IET? There are too many problems with these trains which over time is going to cost an absolute fortune to keep them running. The decision should be taken to scrap them once a replacement is on the stocks. The DfT is just as much to blame as Hitachi as it determined the specification. If you want a good product then look no further than Siemens. Also the rest of the GW mainline system must be electrified, like, urgently. Bimode, as now, is not the answer. Your video has opened a can of worms. Well done.

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

The DfT certainly made a big mistake ordering these - a modified version of the Siemens Velaro might have been a good idea, but I don't know.

@profmargins

7 ай бұрын

Even if siemens made these trains they would still be bad due to DfT tinkering

@VladimirPutinIsGood

7 ай бұрын

@@GWVillager The DFTs New Name Should Be The Department Against Transport at This Point

@holnrew

7 ай бұрын

Even just as far as Taunton would be a huge upgrade

@VladimirPutinIsGood

7 ай бұрын

@@holnrew Well I Would Say Bring Back The HSTs Would Be a Upgrade More

They're not called the Shithatchi 800's for nothing Bloody hateful things. Lighting, seating, ambiance, cleanliness, ride, noise, absolute crap 1st class compared to the trains they replaced. I like the idea of the pods in 1st class I also like the idea of 2x5 units with the forward unit providing a fast service and the rear unit following on behind as a stopper service (The Hastings units used to do this between Tunbridge Wells and Hastings) A fast service west of Exeter calling at just Plymouth, Truro and Penzance would be very welcome and much sought after. The Shithatchi 800's were built to a price, not a standard

@B-A-L

7 ай бұрын

Don't blame Hitachi, they had nothing to do with the interior and it's obvious you have never seen what Hitachi is capable of when it is given the proper budget anyway!

@sidney001

7 ай бұрын

You obviously don't have to ride the bastard things for 4:45hrs once a week

GWR diagram 1 Oxford service (14:23 from Paddington) to be a 10 car in order to cover 2 starting at Oxford to Paddington but this allows the 15:23 to become a Worcester service instead of an Oxford Service giving GWR an extra train to run there during the beginning of the rush hour quite smart by them

The food trolley also really bangs up the arm rest and seat edges. LOVE that idea about a 5 car fast train to Worcester after splitting at Oxford. I reckon to do that they'd need to redouble the single track sections between Oxford and Hanborough and Evesham and Worcester. Simply better seats would do the world of good! Also bins in consistent places would be very helpful. It's never easy trying to remember where they are as they change locations.

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

The trolley banging the seats is really annoying, especially when you're not expecting it and you suddenly get slammed in the back!

Having used class 221 and 220 Voyagers on and off since their inception, i never thought id see the day when a Voyager has a nicer ambiance than an IET. Absolutely woeful bloody things! Once the castle sets finish next year, the race to bottom will be complete.😢

I've heard that a lot of engine breakdowns are safety shutdowns due to overheating in the summer. This only happens because air filters for cooling get clogged with pollen, and work is being done to investigate and remedy this

Many thanks for this review. Yes the seats are dire and should be replaced. I would reduce the capacity a little so that we don’t have to have so many seats with a view of some plastic paneling. (Travel by train and don’t see Britain!). The interior colour scheme of the GWR trains is a bit brash and could be refined as you suggest. However you go on to suggest replacing the bogies - which would, I hope deal, with the generally jittery ride accompanied by sudden jolts. Then you go on to mention the lack of a buffet car. It should be noted half a carriages is taken up with a kitchen. So on a ten car train, made up of two five car units 10% of the train is unused! With that and the need for much more space for bicycles and parcels (GWR had a service for parcels with the HSTs) and it becomes increasingly obvious that in their current form these trains are woefully inadequate and a major redesign is needed. With luck they could be replaced with something better after a few years and as you say the GWR needs kick up a fuss about this.

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

Oh, yes, you’re right about the seating. Those odd pairs of seats at the end of the coaches with no window should really be replaced by extra luggage storage.

In the summer, I travelled on a WSM-PAD train from Chippenham that was so jam-packed that it took several minutes to get on and then squeeze my way through the crowded vestibule into the compartment to find a space where I wasn’t breathing down someone’s neck! I had a large suitcase of course. The replacement of 9-coach sets with 5-coach sets also makes a mockery of the seat-booking system.

1:00 I don't think the Japanese realised how bad our track were

@danlastname9002

7 ай бұрын

Italians. These trains are effectively AnsaldoBreda units.

This is my Ideal to improve these trains if i had my way, May not happen but anything is possible these days. 1) Replace the seat for a more purpose built seats: The exisiting seats you can find on a metro tram and its even more comftable, Having these seats as an 'intercity' is like using curry sauce as milk on a cornflake. 2) Fix the formation: I would do something similar to what Virgin Trains did, Buy extra carriages and extend several 5 car sets to 9 car or even a 10 car set, Plus some new sets for Wales - Portsmouth/Cornwall. 3) Fix the interior: Having similar interior layout to LNER, That includes the buffet and at one end of the train some seats removed to make way to large lauggage/bicycle space, Like the HST currently has. 4) Fix the first class: Having first class at the london end much as possible like Avanti/LNER (Although they too sometimes have first class at the oppisite end but its minimal, Change the seats and offer a far greater catering service, Not just hot chocolate and sea salt crisps all the time. 5) Offer limited 2 destinations in one, Like Southern, For example London - Cheltenham and Cardiff or Bristol, Splitting at Swindon, That could free up pathing for other service concidering they do a lot of splitting and joining. 6) Change the name from 'IET' to GWET (Great Western Express Trains) or the FWT (Flying Western Trains) or even the flying cucumber

Love your shit! Keep it up!

Yes, get some comfortable seats please. I quite like the green trim though. Some decent-sized signage saying 'Quiet Coach' is desperately needed. The chavs never spot the subtle signage! Oh more tables, and fewer airline seats please.

The ride quality through the Chipping Campden Tunnel is really rough. Don't think the single tracks along the Cotswold Line would allow for a fast service followed by a stopping service each way.

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

It would need strategic redoubling, yes.

As someone who travels on these trains every day at 125mph (fortunately only for a short way) I do agree with most of the problems. The GWR sets are certainly the worst when compared with the other operators. Every other operator has done some to make them feel better and GWR are much left with the most basic version. Regarding the bogies. I sort of accept your comment that inside frame bogies reduce the ride quality over full framed bogies but in the case of the 80xs I disagree. The ride I have found on the 80xs when running from Chippenham to London Paddington gets progressively worse the closer you get to london despite the speed being the same with the final section from Reading being awful. I have always found it odd that the 80xs have two styles of bogies with full frame bogies most of the time and inside frame bogies found only on the non driving trailer coaches in the 9 car sets. It is though Hitchi haven't worked out how to make an inside frame motor bogie something every other manufacturer has worked out. (The class 385s also use 2 different types of bogie). I have travelled on both the coaches with full frame bogies and those without (I mainly travel in the coaches with full frame bogies) and I have found the ride to have no difference I have noticed. You showed a class 700 bogie and despite these being inside frame I have ridden these loads and not actually noticed the ride to be bad at all it can be a bit bouncy at 100mph but not hard like it is on the 80xs. For another comparison I have ridden both 700s and 387s on the line from London Kings Cross to Hitchin and the 387s have a noticeably worse ride when compared with the 700s and yes they were both doing 100mph. So based on this I think it is far less about the style of bogie as there clearly are other things that factor because you have good inside frame bogies.

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

This is true - it’s not inherent that inside frame bogies give a poor ride and outside frames give a good one - but there is a strong correlation. I would also say that the inside sprung bogies on the IETs do perform worse in my experience, though there’s not a huge amount of difference.

@Solomon_C

7 ай бұрын

Yes the 387s have a horrible ride

I can never understand why GWR have so many 5 car units when they are employed on long distance services You make a number of good points The other thing I can’t understand is why when 2 395 or 800 units are joined together they didn’t think about passengers and staff being able to walk the full length of the train it’s clear that who ever placed the original order for the stock they can’t have ever worked a train

Agreed. The seats definitely needed to be replaced as well as better window alignment. Wireless charging can be installed in table seats like the Class 390. By the way, what is the name of the standard class seats Lumo and Avanti use for their 80x units?

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

The Transcal Vision.

Also Hitachi are also to manufacture the Class 805 and Class 507 for Avanti West Coast and Class 810 for East Midlands Railway which these should be in service from next year onwards.

Fair points, let’s see if the newer 805,807 and 810s are any better with extra experience putting them together. But I agree a refurb should be on the table.

IETs aren’t bad. But they need comfortable seats. I had to ride these trains from Scotland to London and first class isn’t any better. This is coming from a guy who doesn’t live in the UK and has experience worst seats

As another person who frequently gets long distance GWR services- I am in agreement. Having a mixed formation 1st Class would be an interesting trial. However the main sticking point for me at least is that on GWR the catering offer is absolutely woeful. We used to have big, comfortable leather seats and hot food available. Now? All we get are crisps, biscuits and hot drinks while sat in a barely tolerable seat. It's just not good enough for what can potentially be running on a five hour journey, when Avanti and LNER both offer lovely hot meals on similar length services.

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

It really could be better, yes. An expansion of the Silver Service might be good on high demand trains, rather like TfW has done.

They are so rough. I was on the Reading to Paddington yesterday and within 10mins i was in the toilet throwing up. My stomach just cannot deal with all the vibration and jiggling around. The seats are almost painful, so i tend to stand.

I largely agree with this. Although if it was me I would just retrofit the HSE class style interior into the IETs for standard but as you said take 1/4 of coach A away as a bike space similar to the Class 180s. Put a proper buffet space between First & Standard moving the kitchen too! First Class going back to the 2014 refit style seats although maybe with fabric instead of leather but ideally exactly the same as before. Remove the awful voyager style window blinds in First and replace them with curtains. The vestibule areas then taking the slack for all this by using it for more luggage & toilet space, with the horrible fake wood effect peeled off leaving inside all cream with the inside facing of the doors painted dark green or silver.

If they plan to lengthen or rearrange trains, they could just order a bunch of extra coaches with cafés in them like LNER have, and swap/add them in, without requiring any expensive new design/manufacturing-changes/testing that might come with a more substantial refit. I'd also be interested to know if your poor experience with rattling and such is specific to the 802s or also applies to the other classes, since the 802s (which were manufactured at the Hitachi Rail Italy plant shortly after its acquisition, unlike the others) are known to have serious fitment problems due to major quality control issues at the Italian plant. I have not noticed any issues on the occasions that I've been on LNER 801s (though it doesn't mean they aren't necessarily present)

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

Adding buffets in new coaches would be great, I must admit I hadn't thought of that.

The cracking issue hasn't been solved. Worse yet, Hitachi are building the latest trains with the same basic design.

Interesting and thought-provoking. If I am using the service from London to Swansea, I will always book first class at the rear - the 17h44 departure from PAD to SWA has a cunning secret, which GWR seem particularly UN-enthusiastic about advertising- a PULLMAN dining service in the rear car! Bliss! you arrive into Swansea a few hours later (as the underfloor diesel engines throb away after leaving the wires some way back towards Cardiff) in great shape for a Welsh weekend.

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

The Pullman is great, it should really run on more trains.

I wouldn't bet on First Group keeping the Western Main Line for much longer. Things might be better. Overcrowding is a thing of First Group. They lost the First Capital Connect service, because of dirty trains, and the main problem, overcrowding. The Western Main Line, that they took over from stagecoach they gave up, (SWR) and now are running it as a management company for Network Rail. Overcrowding was a problem with them, as the trains from Salisbury came down to my part of the country as a two car, when they took over. Now they are no longer the franchise holder, Network Rail instructed them to put more cars on. Now we have 6 cars.

@kaitlyn__L

7 ай бұрын

First Group has never run a service for good service's sake. The whole GWR rebrand was just a nostalgia-driven exercise intended to make the public think they'd turned a corner (or even changed ownership). I think the logo and the green looks good, but I never forgot who was still lying underneath the new livery.

I must be the only person who actually likes the seats! I ride them every week day to and from work, but admittedly not for very far. I didn't notice any collapsed cushions. Can't argue with the rest though. Good vid!

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

You’ve really not noticed any collapsed cushions? Surely you can feel that metal bar?

I’d personally say that new seats, Carpet, Lighting and interior colours would go a long way. Maybe extend half of the 5 car sets up to 9 on GWR. I’d say the trains themselves are fairly solid.

I've never travelled on the GWR sets. I use the LNER ones every week and they seem fine. Obviously not as comfortable as the MK4 sets but acceleration is very good. Only down side is the tiny standard class buffet. Its like a cupboard, and i dont know how the catering staff put up with it. Otherwise theyre pretty ok.

@grassytramtracks

4 ай бұрын

The GWR ones are the worst of the lot, they were the ones with the cracks and the seat cushions have collapsed meaning there's a bar digging right into your bum the whole time. Survivable for 1h 20 from Bath to London, I wouldn't enjoy it for 3 to 5 hours. The interiors are also really dirty and some of them have really ratty looking carpets. The acceleration is good, but the ride at speed is like a shopping trolley. I don't find the rough ride that bad, it's not my biggest complaint, to be fair I didn't think the HSTs rode especially smoothly, but it's the seats that need to be sorted out

I wonder if at least part of the reason the 800s ride so roughly is because, in common with all trains these days, the bogies have yaw dampers (to control side-to-side movement) attached to hefty brackets welded to the carriage bodyshell? They also have anti-roll bars, which again amount to chunks of solid metal connecting the bogies to the bodyshell. Surely these act as vibration-transmitters, ensuring that every bump and jolt is passed into the carriage, bypassing the suspension? If I recall correctly, the cracks which plagued the 800s were in the welds which attach the yaw damper brackets to the bodyshells. I can't remember any explanation from GWR or Hitachi as to why the cracks had appeared, but the problem perhaps illustrates how much vibration passes through. In fairness to the 800s, they're not alone. The Class 197s have the ride quality of a tea trolley being flung down a flight of stairs - and, sure enough, the 197s also have chunky yaw damper brackets acting as suspension-bypass vibration transmitters. Ironically, the yaw dampers seem hopelessly ineffective. I've been on a 197 on which the bogies were wobbling about like a DLR train, and the ride quality in general felt like the train had square wheels. . What's the betting the 197s are stopped for crack repairs in the near future?

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

Quite high, I presume. Many CAF trains (and trams) have experience cracking problems recently.

Replace them with Stadler FLIRTs - the Greater Anglian ones seem to be well liked.

@profmargins

7 ай бұрын

FLIRTs suck as well

@charliemcdornell

7 ай бұрын

getting a 125 variant of the flirts would be perfect for the great western network

If I was in charge, I'd convert the kitchens to bike and bag storage, then convert the bike storage to a static trolley counter with maybe a combined microwave for hot rolls etc. I'd probably relegate the 80Xs to CrossCountry, then get some fabulous 745s and 755s for GWR. They also have level boarding - which means more people can board and alight without needing someone to help.

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

The issue with getting rid of the kitchens altogether is that you couldn’t provide the very popular Silver Service.

@suchcone

7 ай бұрын

@@GWVillager indeed - I think for me I value day-to-day service for the average traveler more than the once or twice a day fine dining service - having looked at prices I do wonder if they bring in any notable amount of money at all in the scheme of their daily operations

@charliemcdornell

7 ай бұрын

@@GWVillager could just get special sets for the silvers, it's maddening to see a kitchen fit for a small restaurant on every service, when they just aren't used. (anecdotally) the microwave costs aboout 15000

Well, they COULD be decent trains, but it really feels like they were intentionally designed bad with parts coming from the lowest bidder. I never knew the trains were falling apart like this since I've been doing my best to avoid riding the IET for years now (last journey on one was October 2021.) But yeah, I do agree with your suggestions here, especially that idea for First Class. Those designs are pretty neat, though honestly the 5 car ones should've never of existed, full stop. Hull Trains and recently Lumo are now starting to run more 10 car services, which to me, says that they are really good at underestimating the demand on their routes. To add, overcrowding is seriously a dangerous thing. More people in an enclosed space give off more heat, requiring the AC to be working more to cope and if it fails, people can faint from heat exhaustion, and that's one of the better scenarios. What happens if a fire breaks out? How do you easily evacuate people stuck standing in the aisles? What about a crash or derailment? Horrible can of worms I say... I think a good idea would've been if GWR bought their fleet of 9 or 10 car IETs strictly for intercity use and then invest in a fleet of 6 or 8 car long trains for regional services that can fill in for an IET at a last resort. Like a 6 car variant of the 745 to run on Portsmouth and Penzance services. I'm so fed up of seeing the 5 car Plymouth, Camarthen and Cardiff trains man. That never happened with the HSTs and it shouldn't be happening now.

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

I’ve never understood why Hull Trains/Lumo went for 5 car trains, HT have been overcrowded for a while and it was obvious that Lumo would quickly fill up. A crash involving a rammed train is too horrific to think about, but there is also the issue of disease spreading easily - a (one would hope) notable concern after 2020. It would be terrible to go through the experience of the pandemic and come out *less* prepared for a potential new outbreak. I completely agree about GWR needing a new regional fleet, that would solve an awful lot of problems. Whilst it’s definitely worse now than it’s ever been before, I would add that, in the latter days of the HSTs, cancellations became quite common with their declining reliability, and (for quite a while) Cotswold line trains were regularly substituted for Turbos. Thankfully both of those are less common now, even if the number of 5 coach trains is unacceptable. (Also, no IETs since 2021? That’s some serious dedication - I can’t really avoid them unfortunately!)

@Busandtrain123

7 ай бұрын

@@GWVillagerit could be worse recently GWR replaced an IET with a 166 on a service between Paignton and London Paddington.

@VladimirPutinIsGood

7 ай бұрын

​​@@Busandtrain123Class 165s and 166s Are Better Then 800s 👍

@kaitlyn__L

7 ай бұрын

@@GWVillager I swear, the state seems to be doing everything it can to forget all lessons learned over the last few years. Schools are asking kids to stay in when they're sick because of government (dis)incentives about attendance rates. I don't even see nurses masking between assessing patients, which seems like one of the places you'd expect to stick around to keep staff absences low at a minimum! So I'm not expecting it to factor into railway decisions, sadly.

@grassytramtracks

7 ай бұрын

​@@kaitlyn__Lit feels like the government are making everything as terrible as possible to salt the ground so much that they can blame everything on labour by the time they're in

9 car sets have up to 6 bike spaces. 4 reserveable, 2 in the bulk storage area if really required.

Lots of these issues are GWR-specific. LNER has four bike spaces per 9-coach set, the buffet is well used and the general condition of the interiors is much better. They also seem to have managed the number of units better...

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

Indeed, I did mention that I was primarily focussing on GWR.

I'm most familiar with the LNER sets so for them I would propose a number of major changes and a number of more cosmetic changes. Major Changes: 1) Extend all trains to 11 carriages 2) Move the Quiet Coach to Coach A (furthest from the barriers at Kings Cross) rather than having it in the middle of the train. 3) Move the standard class Wheelchair space and add an Accessible toilet towards the middle of the train rather than in coach A at the far end of the platform at Kings Cross - whoever approved that in the first place needs to be fired! 4: Ideally move the kitchen and Buffet to be together between first and Standard class, ideally in the same carriage as the wheelchair spaces, and add a dining area in this carriage so that the end carriages are fully usable with seats. Cosmetic changes: 1) Replace the standard class seats with more comfortable ones similar to those on Lumo, and have them properly aligned with windows 2) More Luggage space at the ends of carriages by the door pockets 3) Tone down the lighting onboard 4) Rearrange first class seats to be window aligned and replace the tables with some that don't impact leg space.

The only thing I would change from your recommendation is extend the 5 car class 800 units and use the class 802 on the stopping service. This is because the 802 is more suitable for non electrified workings due to having a more powerful diesel engines and a bigger fuel tank

@TheDancingGamer01

7 ай бұрын

All 800 have been upgraded to the same power level as the 802, so It would not matter now if its 800 or 802, Only LNER's 800 has the original power output.

@GWVillager

7 ай бұрын

Theoretically, I would do this. However, there are considerably more 5 car 800s than 802s, and the extra units would probably be necessary.

This is what you get when you ask the DFT to design trains

The DfT specified the seats as they are the "experts" in the needs of the intercity travellers. Would British Rail have made so many mistakes in procurement? No, many of the trains that they built are still running today. It is hard to understand why Hitachi have made so many cock-ups in these trains as they have had an excellent reputation for previous construction. I have worked on Hitachi built machinery in the past and never had any issues with quality or reliability. Again, it could be down to the DfT specifications, with Hitachi just building what the customer wanted, rather than the people who actually get to use the trains. GWVillager, your suggestions make good sense, so for that reason, they will be ignored!

@suburbia2050

7 ай бұрын

Someone mentioned that they actually got built at an Italian plant that had gone brancrupt before Hitachi bought them out, Austria having returned their trains to that factory due to build issues. Might explain it, but then why didnt the DFT return them also?

@B-A-L

7 ай бұрын

I read a comment from an actual Hitachi employee in Newton Aycliffe that they had nothing to do with the interior and he was sick of all the xenophobic comments towards the company when they had to work with the budget the DfT specified.

@MervynPartin

7 ай бұрын

@@B-A-LAs I said in my original comment that Hitachi have had an excellent reputation, so your reply about the Hitachi employee makes very good sense. I would not trust the DfT with any transport, let alone trains.

They already are decent trains. It's only overly obsessive and mostly elderly train enthusiasts that dont like them.

I can only comment on behalf of the managers of these types of projects who have gone to great efforts to produce a "World Claaas" service: Firstly, they will note that the presentation of this video is significantly better than any official ones. Secondly, they will by now have the name and full details of the presenter and any people associated with him. Thirdly, I assume a pay-off has been attempted and this excellent presenter won't budge ? Fourthly, each and every failure outlined in this video will now have had a paper produced and associated audit trails to prove that the decisions made were the best possible at the time. Fifthly, the credibility of this person or team will be being undermined, something that I have always found project managers are far better at doing than their real job. Sixthly, any associated or supporting text will be denigrated, including this offering on the grounds of it being too flippant. I would guess that in 3 or so years time when all these proposals or near equivalents could have been implemented we will be lucky to have seen more than 50% of all effort and resource had been spent on the improvements rather than attacking the expert proposals we see demonstrated in this, (one of the very best videos on KZread ever), intelligent, structured and compelling documentary.

With regards to buffets cars, they should just slap a Gregg’s in them to serve tea/coffee/bacon rolls etc. Wight Link ferries from Portsmouth have these little Greggs in them and they’re incredibly popular.

What's concerning, is that EMR with the class 810's, are to bring these on-line in the new year, with units currently on test on the Old Dalby test track, in Leicestershire. The only seemingly saving grace, is that the seating has been given some thought, with various EG's on display at various EMR stations, Nottingham, Derby, and Sheffield where I have seen them and tried out.

@bruceknights8330

7 ай бұрын

My understanding is that they still went with the cheap design, despite the public feedback.

@grassytramtracks

4 ай бұрын

​@@bruceknights8330they did change the seats at least for the EMR trains

Some very good suggestions there. I hope I'm wrong, but sadly I can't see them happening in the current climate.

Firstly- First Class at the weekend GWR offer upgrades to first for a fee, the rest of the train could be packed, so why not just reduce first class increase standard class. Next agree with the stupid 5 car versions, I have seen them arrive at Reading and be crammed, only for a 9 car to arrive two minutes later empty, all trains need to have more seats and be at least 9 cars. plus 2 x 5 car sets - no was on one of these out of Paddington the rear set standing room only, front set empty - passenger running to catch the train end up in the rear unit and can not get to the front unit. Likewise on a 9 car train leaving late, same thing front three cars were empty yet people standing in the back 4 cars, of course people do not walk through if the people in next car are also standing- but trolley service can not operate in these conditions either. - what happens when the routes are fully electric the trains must need a refit to remove the diesel power units?

The IET isn't a train to be praised but most of the issues mentioned are not Hitachi's fault. The crack was due to higher than anticipated loads, and was permanently resolved by the installation of additional support. Unlike trains from CAF and Stadler which have endless issues hopeless to be fixed, IETs are kind of a reliable workhorse in Britain, despite poor passenger comfort. Ride quality is a strange issue - I have once ridden on TPE's 802 on ECML and the ride quality was remarkable, while I also have a journey with LNER and that was brutal. For the interior, Hitachi basically did what they were ordered to - the first batch of IET for GWR was basically DfT with no effort for designing, just picked the cheapest and thinnest one and installed as many as possible. LNER was better, although it is still the iron board seat, there is a bit of Virgin Trains vibe modernised. Lumo and Hull Trains are decent, while Avanti is going to use the seat as the refurbished Pendolino on their 805s and 807s, which I think will provide a similar experience.

Now what's the word I'm looking for.......oh yes - 'crap'!

If you scrap them and recycle the materials into a new type of train then they could be decent trains. Otherwise abysmal travelling torture chambers.

@physiocrat7143

7 ай бұрын

Recycle into beer cans

On my recent trip i found them quite comfortable for the hour ride i took. However, any longer and i would begin to find it uncomfortable. Slightly more padding would make them far nicer. It also appears that they have warmed several lights and the ambience it quite nice. However, the failiures outweighed this as the returning train was cancelled due to cracks and the following train had no operable toilets. They are also far too short for the routes they take. The routes via oxford should be lengthened to 9 cars atleast as there were few unreserved seats.

if this was the train I took from Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads then junk them. Very uncomfortable seats, no space for suitcases between the backs of the seats, not enough luggage space, no bins inside the carriages by the seats, the electronic signs for booked seats not working, the signs for the next stopping station not working. These carriages are not fit for purpose. I travel far better on LNER, Northern and Grand Central.

That’s terrible! I haven’t even travelled on them yet 😢

I was shocked to see how bad the condition of these IETs are, they're not exactly old and yet I've already seen multiple instances of fittings literally rusting off these things.

Incidentally what do you guys think of the proposed HS2? Personally i think that if Britain was continent-sized it'd make good sense to shave hours off long trips, but as Britain is just a relatively small-sized island, only minutes would be shaved off, so HS2 is therefore not worth the cost and infrastructure disruption along the route, or am i missing something?

@chris8405

6 ай бұрын

You are missing something. HS2 as originally designed was about a huge step-change in capacity and with the added benefit of very impressive journey time cuts (an hour less from London to Manchester).

@grassytramtracks

4 ай бұрын

There is something you're missing. Time savings are secondary to capacity increases, and the west coast mainline is at capacity and can't take more trains on it

I do think the GWR IETs are the worst of the lot. Someone who is used to the LNER ones for instance may have a more positive opinion.

I was watching a cleaner on my TOC going through the usual popping waste into clear bag and noticed Tea,Coffee liquid etc pouring out the bottom! The cleaner said he told his Boss that holes are a bad idea but it's the law now. I guess to prevent suffocation 💁‍♂️ So ever why unit carpets are stained easily. Look no further...🙄

considering all of the flawed train fleets that came out of the Pistoia factory while it was still operating as Ansaldo Breda, any work that can be kept away from that location would be a bonus

I try to travel on a class 387 instead when I can as they are a far better train, even if a bit slower. As for power units, its best to start replacing the GPUs with battery packs, making some a class 801 thus reducing the GPU load. That will work on many routes but not the West Country routes. Electrification is of course a must even if partial to enable battery usage.

Only a minor thing but please can they make it so you have to confirm your seat reservation an hour or so before departure. At the moment the system is a mess. Lots of people reserve seats because why the hell not, you're probably not going to catch that train but if you do you'll definitely have a seat. In my experience over half of seat reservations are never actually used so people ignore the fancy electronic signs and if you actually have a reservation you have to cheese someone off by asking them to move out of your seat. Personally I've always thought seat reservations were a dumb idea anyway but if you're going to have them either charge a nominal amount like £2 per reservation so people don't book them when they're unlikely to need them, or have a confirmation system.

Paddington to Didcot was just enough or me. Thank heavens it was fast and I don't want to do it again anytime soon. Dreadful. And not helped by the poor track shaking everything to bits.

To force GWR to up their game and pay some attention to passenger comfort on their trains, we need an open access operater using locomotive hauled coaches to give them some competition.

They should take inspiration from the swiss SOB from my person experience the SOB traverso intercity variant is gorgeous in the interior and in my experience still in a great condition

Good to see mention of the excessively stark, cold white lighting. This is a plague on many UK trains now. The GWR IETs aren't even the worst offenders.

Honestly surprised they haven't gotten rid of 1st class to put more standard in. Would slightly help with overcrowding, and would mean you aren't just carting air around.