This call is my absolute favourite. Tracy's ruthless smack down on God's morality is epic and incontrovertible.

@kenbob1071

2 ай бұрын

She definitely nailed it!

"I believe in micro-evolution, not macro-evolution" "I believe in leaves on sticks, not in trees"..

@sle2470

3 ай бұрын

"I believe in seconds but not years."

@vertigo4236

3 ай бұрын

"No matter how many centimeters you have, you will never have a full meter!"

@ninaschust3694

3 ай бұрын

Puddles and seas...

@Esteban45696

3 ай бұрын

One of the best calls of all time still think about it all these years later

@uncleanunicorn4571

3 ай бұрын

you can walk ten feet, But ten miles is impossible 😅😅

Hearing this person describe their moral compass as "flawed, corrupt, and full of sin" made me feel truly sorry for them.

@jayjasespud

3 ай бұрын

Nah, that comment about a girl being raped at the end made him lose all benefit of sympathy from me.

@RadarLakeKosh

3 ай бұрын

@@jayjasespud I suppose. But I think you'll find that *most* Christians haven't thought through the nastier implications of their belief system.

@mistylover7398

Ай бұрын

​@@RadarLakeKosh twily : says u pinkie. Hail sunbutt lol

@wolf2966

Ай бұрын

I did too till the end

Ah yes, the infamous clip. "You portray that little girl as someone who's innocent..." Fucking barf forever.

@scrapper666

3 ай бұрын

"who's innocent"

@realhuman8305

3 ай бұрын

I don't know how you can lead with a morally provoking question like "does child rape make you angry?" to imply it's a morally wrong situation... ...and follow up with a critique that "you're assuming she's innocent" as if to imply that she is evil and God is punishing her with rape. The caller doesn't have a moral compass, they have an immoral compass and it's working perfectly fine. This is the type of guy you see in the news saying "she was asking for it." Sick bastard.

This guy didn’t bring a knife to a gun fight. He showed up unarmed

@mitchhaelann9215

3 ай бұрын

This man showed up to a space race with a broken trampoline and cement shoes.

@imjustsotired2127

3 ай бұрын

@enjflor1313 fantastic comment.

@gabrielgomes4228

3 ай бұрын

And missing a hand.

@chrisj7656

2 ай бұрын

Well, he has god to back him up... Oh wait... yeah, still unarmed. You right.

You’re assuming the little girl was innocent… no one can argue a position of morality after saying that.

@thehigherevolutionary

13 күн бұрын

Such a morally bankrupt response! I don't get how they throw that kind of thing out in good conscience.

@JDdr86

9 күн бұрын

​@@thehigherevolutionaryThe don't have a conscience, they have the BuyBell.

My atheist father never talked about morality or gods. He was instinctually kind, compassionate, generous, and helpful to strangers. My religious mother who placed moral admonitions on everything from what I ate to what I wore, had none of that instinctual compassion or urge to be of use to others. Yet she paid her tithings every week to the church. I can’t say how morality was installed in each of them. But it was clear to me that one parent’s morality was based on a long & strict, but arbitrary, set of rules, while the other’s was about simply looking for situations in which he could help. Perhaps he only helped people to uplift his own ego. But in the end, one was clearly acting more like Jesus. The Xian belief that God gives morality, and that following God’s rules makes one a more moral person, these argument are lost on me.

@AXKfUN9m

3 ай бұрын

The problem with believing in objective morality is that your views on morality will crash with those of others, and you'll be ill-prepared because you're under the impression that yours is correct while everyone else "veered off the right way".

@claudiaarjangi4914

3 ай бұрын

​@@AXKfUN9mTrue. And the problem with being taught to follow "objective morality", Is that YOU never have to do the work of finding out what morals actually means, and WHY. So you have NO developed framework, & experience using it, with which to compare your own, or reason, what is good morally, or bad, Just like being told "cos I said so", teaches nothing about WHAT morality means, & WHY. 😁🌏☮️

That last comment before he was disconnected... Man, how can someone even THINK of that?

@declanreilly6611

3 ай бұрын

That's an easy one... because that's what religion does to the brain

@Arquea_Lucus_Wolven

2 ай бұрын

It's INSANE!!! "...you assume portray that little girl as someone who is innocent..." THIS IS A CHIIIIIILD we're talking about! No one deserves to be raped and it is disgusting that he would even suggest that a CHILD would be DESERVING of such a horrible, traumatizing act. I truly hope they do not hold anything similar to that belief, or take a serious look into their current beliefs, because it's genuinely horrifying to think that man has the right to vote.

"We must follow THE best moral rules." *Suggests following THE most evil and immoral rules in existence.*

@mistylover7398

Ай бұрын

Exactly. Megatron iz LORD

How do you evaluate that God is moral, if you cannot trust your own knowledge of morality? Brilliant!

@AbsentMinded619

3 ай бұрын

How can you know that dunking a basketball is possible, if every time you try it you fail? Checkmate theists! Im a genius in my own mind.

@jackwhitbread4583

3 ай бұрын

​@@AbsentMinded619are you actually that deluded and simple minded? Did you actually think that was some kind of gotcha that made the slightest bit of sense?

@SextusHempiryk

3 ай бұрын

​@@AbsentMinded619Your behind must be really hurting for you to come here and make idiotic comments, right?

@runemanqwe

3 ай бұрын

Theyre just a bad troll that comments occasionally as an attempt to sound smart and go "Gotcha Athiests!". Pay them no mind

@Spooky90097

3 ай бұрын

@@AbsentMinded619that has to be sarcastic.

A perfect example of the damage that book can do to a mind...trouble is there are millions like him..

A god's subjective opinions on morality is still subjective. Theists also keep mixing up individual morality with group ethics. External dictates on how you need to act in order to avoid punishment is not morality, it's almost the complete opposite.

@WhoAteJoeysUncle

3 ай бұрын

I don't know many people that believe in god's, I think the Hindus do but Hindus also believe in God. The belief in God has been proven to be An instinctive thought and or logical conclusion. Whereass the belief in a god just like the belief the origins of Life came into instinctive without God hasn't been proven to be an instinctive thought or logical conclusion. I find it interesting that the atheist humanist will always argue everything is cultural but of course with the exceptions of homosexuality and transgenderism.. transgenderism definitely has evidence of being cultural. The deep sea sponge of the Arctic has no brain has no tissue has no organs has no nervous system but yet the deep sea sponge of the Arctic is a predator which means it's conscience. Where does this consciousness come from?

@vertigo4236

3 ай бұрын

@@WhoAteJoeysUncle It's okay, I get it. You are a brain-less piece of toast. Of course, gender is cultural! That is what we are saying the WHOLE time! How can one person, YOU, be this brainrotten?😂 You are arguing against positions, we don't even have🤣 Holy cow!😂

@lewiskunst1089

3 ай бұрын

^

@LOwens-xf8yo

3 ай бұрын

Being good for rewards and to avoid punishment is the most rudimentary kind of behavior, often seen in young children. The Christin world view is an extreme example. Like you, I’d argue that this isn’t morality, it’s basically selfishness.

@AbsentMinded619

3 ай бұрын

Nah. Laws of physics aren’t considered subjective, because the universe is beholden to them, not because its Creator is. We also know that laws of logic exist (you can’t do science without them) but they aren’t empirically testable in the way laws of physics are. Christians simply believe that there are also immutable laws of morality given to us, which isn’t that much of a leap considering there are underlying laws of physics and logic. Atheists just keep making category errors assuming that God must be bound by yhe same rules we are (for example, whining about how God “kills people” as if life isn’t temporary by nature, meaning God “kills” everyone, even if it’s from old age.) Objective morality is how Christians can say, definitively, that murdering children is wrong, when for atheists that’s just an opinion. It’s also the reason why there can be hope for, say, a kid dying of cancer, whereas the best comfort an atheist can give is “Too bad, some of us get to live a long life and some don’t. But remember, you’re made of stardust.”

I'm in total shock. He seemed to be trying to understand the arguments and come to grips with some of the more subtle aspects of morality, and then at 45:15 he just comes out with one of the most evil utterances I've ever heard. His view of Christian morality must be totally corrupted.

@HuongNgo-ru7vs

3 ай бұрын

Not just the Christian. All religions are fup

@rabid_si

2 ай бұрын

Because he isn't trying to understand. He knows the answer he wants to get to, and he thinks he's smart enough to play word games to get there, but much like his ability to assess morality, his ability to assess his own intelligence is also broken. The end is him having a frustrated tantrum and saying the quiet part out loud.

today, shane works for the kari lake campaign in Arizona ...

@WhoAteJoeysUncle

3 ай бұрын

I heard the female host of this show now works as Rachel Levine's assistant and pushed to get him named atheist humanist female of the year.

@eagonwild

3 ай бұрын

​@@WhoAteJoeysUncleregressives when the conversation is not about trans people: "trans people amirite? please laugh"

@Luney_0296

3 ай бұрын

Is that real? Or is it a joke I'm too European to understand?

@Aaron-my9zy

3 ай бұрын

@@WhoAteJoeysUncle Can you transphobes stop making everything about trans people FOR 1 NANOSECOND- Like fucking hell, they say trans people are the ones making everything about gender and stuff, and yet trans people are just trying to live their lives in peace while the transphobes stalk them, make literally EVERYTHING about trans people, invade their privacy, are obsessed with what's in people's pants, and even break laws to be hateful to them cuz they fear that which they don't know and don't TRY to learn about it. If our ancestors were brave enough to learn more about fire, you can be brave enough to research about the different parts of the LGBTQIA+. C'mon, it ain't gonna bite you.

@AbsentMinded619

3 ай бұрын

@eagonewild It could be worse. Imagine if they based their whole life and personality on hating something they say they don’t believe in, and even made whole KZread channels just to rage against it…oh wait

what a ending! I think his god even felt that one.

The level of mental gymnastics theists have to do to stick free will into the infallable divine plan is so crazy...

@CyberBeep_kenshi

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, and when confronted with their errors, they'll just ignore it. Wanna bet he used the exact same arguments in his next discussion?

I am better than god and I think everyone would agree: If I was god there would be no suffering, everyone would be living in a paradise, everyone would be immortal and no one would need to worship me. The fact I can say that and mean it offers proof I am better than anyone who could do the same and doesn't. Anyone care to argue?

@Apollorion

3 ай бұрын

I prefer the prospect of a moral mortality (giving me the right to end my life under the consent of my social environment) to a boring immortality (in which I can't stop living).

@terryquinn7765

3 ай бұрын

No argument from me, I believe I’m better than g0d, I have never unlived anything in my life, 20+ yrs in the military and 67 yrs old! Just saying ✌️

Fuck I was not ready for that ending 😂

“Screw one sheep”. 😂 One of my favourite jokes.

Well done, Shane, you made the hall of fame of Embarassingly Simple-Minded and Frequently Whiny Theistic Callers.

This call got Atheist Experience in the Austin newspaper. Absolute fire. Two of some of the greatest hosts no longer with ACA because well... ACA has some work to do.

Seeing an old clip of a tired, familiar argument is a harsh reminder that Christianity has lasted this long mostly by hearing reasonably complaints and answering "Nuh-uh!".

I guess he proved his point that his moral compas is evil and twisted and corrupted, when he finshed off with abused children probably have it comin'. That is truly dementedly screwed up.

We inject a mighty being for our lack of understanding, well some of us at least.

So he basically just argued for being a religious fundamentalist for 45 mins…

“How do you know God is moral?” “I see that the world is full of evil-“ Weird. That would tell me that God is immoral.

@samanthajayewardene4523

3 ай бұрын

😆

@mikepanick468

3 ай бұрын

The book by god blesses slavery and genocide. Also misogyny, homophobia, infanticide and mass abortion. Even today murder of trans people is epidemic, caused by gods and belief in them.

@mistylover7398

Ай бұрын

Them : but but man's sinful nature for Adam and eve. Weeeeeee

@mikepanick468

Ай бұрын

@@mistylover7398 Man is full of evil as pushed by religious superstition.

@wprandall2452

Ай бұрын

You're not moral, and yet you conceive of immorality. You must be created from God, yet you refuse to believe in the only source of righteousness - the Lord.

I really really hope he doesn't have a family, or neighbours..... That guy is insane

"If someone said that it's best for them to drink Clorox every day, I can show them that's not right.:" 2020 says: Several million people in red hats disagree.

@antonio7487

3 ай бұрын

Every time I forget that happened, someone reminds me that that happened. What a time to be alive.

@thecriticalone1783

2 ай бұрын

You can lead a horse water but you can't make them drink.

@DerpBane

2 ай бұрын

not a very intelligent comment

@Olyfrun

2 ай бұрын

​​@@DerpBanewhy not? It happened.. I mean, I'm not sure millions of trumpettes were so stupid as to actually *follow* the words of the defendant. But he definitely said it, and people definitely did it.

Even death may be preferable to life if life means unbelievable unnecessary suffering with no positive outcome. So all these things are contextual.

@Apollorion

3 ай бұрын

If "life means suffering", wouldn't that make that suffering _necessary_ for life?

@leob3447

3 ай бұрын

@@Apollorion I believe they were referring to specific examples - say a long arduous terminal illness, incarceration, or other such scenario where there is only suffering then guaranteed death. In those cases life would equate to suffering.

just wow. that ending. :(

@Goldenhawk583

3 ай бұрын

My thought exactly.

@rabid_si

2 ай бұрын

Certified classic. That frustration is what happens when you get punched in the face with an undeniable truth.

If humans are social animals, have we not determined rules by which to live that make living in large groups easier? Do we not call those rules…morals?? I think it’s natural to our human evolution. 😊😊😊🍸😊

@Spooky90097

3 ай бұрын

That’s why humans are so successful. We are like huge ants. Without our brain we wouldn’t be close to as successful as we are.

Did he seriously say that the child wasn’t innocent and therefore deserved to be SAed? What kind of monster thinks anything justifies SA of a *child* ?!

Wow… all that pointless banter just for him to eventually spill the beans that he supports the violation of children. What a sick minded individual.

Poor guy. Found himself defending the indefensible and failing to admit it.

I rember watching this before. That shit at the end is horrendous

How many children has Shane graped since this phone call?

Waiting for Jim Castleberry and his alts🤣🙏🏼🙏🏼

@Julian0101

3 ай бұрын

Well, today is friday so he will likely start soon.

@diogeneslamp8004

3 ай бұрын

Just don’t say their name three times!

@joshsheridan9511

3 ай бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 clown​@@JimCastleberry

@joshsheridan9511

3 ай бұрын

He's posted his usual crap

@diogeneslamp8004

3 ай бұрын

@@joshsheridan9511 At least they’re consistent, although we all know what they say about a foolish consistency…

Its amazing what this christians do and say to defend THAT MONSTER OF A GOD!!

I don't flood the earth and drown nearly every living thing because my Divine Plan went haywire.

@advorak8529

3 ай бұрын

… mostly, because being all-knowing and all-powerful you would have guided your Divine Plan to keep on track, instead of setting it up to fail, knowing it must fail … Never mind that, being a bright fellow, you would have found a million better ways to start over without murdering everyone and watching them all drown (omnipresence is extremely useful to not miss anything) even if you just learned about what had happened. I still think the Abrahamic God enjoys human suffering way too much, which is why he’s not going to stop a child being r’ed - despite being all-powerful, he watches with a massive boner and then uses the incident to torture the offenders (including the child, of course) into hell. I am not even sure that that God has a heaven or that it is any different from hell. Why not have all humans be actors in the reality TV show “Torture Tournament”, where those who do not torture others enough get tortured for ‘correction’.

@annangu3160

21 күн бұрын

Not only dat god knew flooding the world wouldn't stop sin but he did it anyways

The mind virus is strong with this one.

it's the difference between having a rule that for every single conceivable situation (y'know, like whether you should wear blended fabrics) and having a set of principles that can be applied anywhere

When ive had a few drinks I'm a lot more fun to be around. I'm more myself. I find it so much more easier to socialise with strangers. Benefits galore. Just have to control how much I drink because I want to remain healthy and also not fall asleep at social events.

Doesn't our innate sense of survival as a species cause us to have morals?

@donnyh3497

3 ай бұрын

Morality is just a loose, general system or code of behavior imparted upon the subject by many many things including the evolution of compassion and empathy, and the people, parents, teachers, experiences, and media that you have been subjected to. Must like almost everything else in life, it's not some simple black and white answer, it's messy

For a social animal, "moral" behaviour is reinforced by feedback from other members of their social group. The dog learns to not sit on the sofa because it maximises the positive feedback, and reduces the negative feedback from the people they see as their pack members.

This original sin song-and-dance is repugnant.

@GroundhogRoy

3 ай бұрын

I've never committed original sin but I do a mean cover version.

The god as depicted in the bible never condoned freedom of thought, religion and/or speech.

You do have the freedom to say that. It’s the action that would cause you to be arrested

That doesn't even address *the* most ironic part here tbh. (Not to mention them flipping on a dime from "kids are innocent" to "kids deserve it".) It's that: Not only does god *watch* it happen. He *rewards* it afterwards. Because, in the bible: That is a *completely moral* thing to do. (As long as you own the kid) They *always* list things as a gatcha, when their god not only condones that action, but endorses it.

I really feel like a lot of the theists that call into the Line would do well to watch every season of The Good Place, and take notes 😂

@mekannatarry1929

3 ай бұрын

Some of them would take notes to apply later, unfortunately lol . . . smh.

At the end the caller confuses the ability to sort out moral issues with whether someone has done bad things. Those are different. To say I've done bad things means i DO have moral judgement that I trust or I wouldn't be thinking I had done bad things. It is the very idea that we sometimes do things we deem bad that proves we have moral judgement and that we trust it.

omg, aren't such people scary? I mean, really, really scary and potentially dangerous =(

Is this a new feature? I mean the way I see old videos coming with a new thumbnail. Anyhow, I like to see those old ownage-videos :)

The show never has amazing moments like this anymore. The good old days.

@GoodBrotherGrimm

6 күн бұрын

@@JitterBob Stop watching then, no-one is going to hold your hand because you're scared of "the woke".

note from a mathematician: Shane's claim somewhere around 19:00 was that "the fact that you are moral implies there is god". Implication is a mathematical construct, and we know objectively that an implication is equivalent to its contrapositive. And what is that? Negate both sides and invert the direction of the implication. If A implies B, then NotB implies NotA. If the existence of morality implies god, then the absence of god implies the absence of morality. These are objectively the same statement logically speaking. I don't think Shane realized that, but it's true regardless: he's making the same claim as every other christian caller on morality.

Your morality must come from within, not from external sources. Hence why Theory of Self-Relativity states: Do unto others as you do unto your Self.

Loved Tracys " you screw 1 sheep" 🤣🤣

That’s the thing with honest theist callers: even the best of them can put up an appearance of rationality and intellectual honesty-and it doesn’t even have to be a deliberate deception, they could genuinely be trying to be an honest interlocutor-but at a certain point they will resort to saying something completely petulant and ugly that exposes the true rot of their ideology when followed through honestly. It’s fundamental impossible not to when said ideology has tenets such as “even if I have doubts, ignoring them and following a god’s commands is objective morality because my moral compass cannot be trusted at all” and “I have used my flawed moral compass to determine that god is a moral figure worth following”. The only comebacks to objections on those two tenets are ugly and petulant comebacks, because there is no fundamental way around the gaping abscess of a logical contradiction and doublethink involved in those premises.

@wprandall2452

2 ай бұрын

My moral compass is not flawed just because my mind is not perfect, and I don't have complete understanding of every issue that exists. By your definition, you should never say another word.

@ZhangK71

2 ай бұрын

@@wprandall2452 Not sure what your intended recipient is. Did you mean your comment for me or for the theists I’m talking about?

@nondescriptcat5620

Ай бұрын

@@wprandall2452

Dont trust humans. Just trust people from thousands of years ago who tell you what god expects

I am amazed that people will sacrifice their humanity over a dusty old book, like Shane did.

He just tried to paint a target around the arrow.... And incl. Stuff like atheism is just showing his bias, and dishonesty,as atheism is Only a position on a claim, nothing else. Imho morality comes from the evolutionary process, where social/group animals are stronger when united. When a single person doesn't behave, the group suffers, thus less chance for survival etc. This caller really didn't approach this objectively, at all.

Best episode ever.

So, as far as morality goes, the very fact that it is constantly disputed, with people arguing over the best policy based on different values and priorities even when all the facts of the case are pretty much agreed upon- this tells me if there is any 'objectively true' morality, whatever that means, humans don't have any clear means of knowing what it is.

@vertigo4236

3 ай бұрын

I would argue, this is a very good thing, because new knowledge or technology can shift those. Is it moral to amputate an arm that is so infectios, it would kill the patient? I say yes. Is it still moral to amputate the same arm, if there is an antibiotic, that is readily avalible, and would cure the infection? I say no, not any longer is it moral.

@Kdeezy1

3 ай бұрын

10 commandments. It’s called the moral law. We broke it and Jesus paid the fine. That’s what the Bible teaches. Why don’t you take the time to look at them and examine yourself thru the lens of those commands?

@Kdeezy1

3 ай бұрын

Exodus 20

@amtlpaul

3 ай бұрын

@@Kdeezy1 Exodus 21

@amtlpaul

3 ай бұрын

@kalebetheridge5905 , you talk as though I've never read the Bible before. I've read rather too much of it to think that it's a reliable indicator of what is moral.

"I believe in talking donkeys and snakes but not in magic"

The end 😬

45:12 i just had a fully body reaction to that . . . how does that thought even enter someones mind

Why or how would God be moral if it's all that's actually exists? Who would it have to develop morals for? It's just an argument pulled out of the anus fallacy.

This guy has no idea how to form a valid argument... Any time he's challenged in the slightest on anything he says, he immediately jumps to the extreme.

Thanks!

@TheAtheistExperience

2 ай бұрын

Thank YOU!!

i was trying to figure out why a video uploaded two months ago looked so old... then i saw the timestamp for 2013

Shane ~ I'm using my morality to say that the god that I believe in is moral, however I believe that my morality and that of all humanity is trash and should not be trusted.

@rizdekd3912

2 ай бұрын

Exactly! If humans, independent of God have no basis for morality, then we have no basis to conclude God and his morality are good. Either there are good reason for what we deem right/wrong or there aren't. If there are reasons, then those reasons are why something is right/wrong. If there are no reasons, then why is something right or wrong?

This and the argument from nothing are my fav.

I am trying to enjoy this video, and i have seen 7 different videos on various subjects tonight. BUT MAN, Google/KZread has tonight , put an average of 5 [yes 5! ] commercial break on each video I have seen that is over 40 minutes. Its RIDICULOUS.

Freedom comes with responsibility. Religious people will never understand that.

She's ahead of her time talking about people drinking bleach (Post-covid)

@Zeppyzavattieri

3 ай бұрын

what are you dumb? People have drunk bleach way before covid.

I could argue that humans have been partaking of drugs and music pretty much since forever the species has been a thing. We know that Neanderthals had flutes. Sex and drugs and rock and roll are not necessarily just about asocial hedonism. If hedonism causes no harm to a third party, is that hedonism immoral?

@36:00 dude straight up short circuits 😄

Up up down down left right left right A Moral code activated

I am enjoying this conversation but I am having trouble looking at the screen and seeing Phoenix misspelled.

I hope that caller is on an fbi watch list 😳

There are lots of restrictions on Free Speech, liable just one of many. The only completely unrestricted Freedom is the Freedom of Thought. You can think whatever you want.

@GroundhogRoy

3 ай бұрын

*libel

@ianwilson9322

3 ай бұрын

@@GroundhogRoy Thank you.

Kendrick boutta drop a diss track on this caller

I dunno how he has the patience for this fools.

It's astounding that Shane paints himself into a corner and then thrashes around trying to construct a defense on the fly and falling back on the 'True Scotsman' fallacy in a whine. Shane obviously desires a black or white world that doesn't exist; this is the basis for fascism and authoritarianism.

26:08 I’ve had profound experiences of emotional healing under the influence of certain … things. *Things* are not inherently moral or immoral. Not speech or seggs or radios or guns or music.

You can't explain my 2 minute video 'Seraphim' with pareidolia The odds are too astronomical of this by happenstance and I consistently demonstrate the seraphim on my channel Electrical process has been overlooked

A Question: Who invented God? Did God invent us? Did God create us? What is God? God is: omnipotent, omniscient, eternal, merciful, just, and all-good. Right? That's your concept of God. And if you say that he has created us, then we are part of his image. We are part of him. That is, we are omniscient, generous, and loving. Right? And eternal. Are we? Or do we think we are? Do you understand my question? If God created you, he must be an extraordinary entity because he wants you to lead a terrible life. Do you understand my question? If God made you, why are you like this? You must be extraordinary human beings, mustn't you? Beautiful, full of joy, excitement, full of delight, but you are not. So either you have created God, or God has created you. But if you examine very closely, you have created God. Cheers.

I think I just heard a toilet flush...

I am not sure there is an innate sense of fairness. It is conditioned, even in animals. Take any child/offspring of any mammal, for example. In animals that have "litters" each pup/kitten/etc. fights for position and will push others out of the way to get fed. The "fairness" is dictated by the mother/parent/elder members. Human children and other apes go through phases very early of "everything is mine." Young toddlers will take another's toys straight from their hands. C0rrective behaviors by others inculcate a sense of fairness into most offspring... sadly, not all.

@Julian0101

3 ай бұрын

Nope, the fact that the pups only push each other instead of killing each other just to have a position indicates they have a sense of limits and fairness. While is true that is external data what shapes that brute sense of fairness, there cannot be conditioning when there is nothing to condition. For example, human children go througt that "everyting is mine" until someone else (usually other child) uses that "everything is mine" and then learn there are limits to "everything is mine". There is no need to expect and advanced sense of fairness and limits from children and puppies.

@ModelTrainOutsider

3 ай бұрын

@@Julian0101 I disagree. They do not "kill" each other as they just need enough force to push out of the way. "Fairness" is "you get yours, I get mine." Even in pups and others, it is "I get mine and whether you get yours is of no consequence." Just because they do not kill is not a sense of "fairness." It is more an inability at that stage to kill, as well as it is not necessary to kill, merely move out of the way. Which could be argued as a different morality standard, as well.

@Julian0101

3 ай бұрын

@@ModelTrainOutsider Correct, the fact they do not kill each other means they have a "i get mine, but there are limits to what i can do to get it". And that doesnt last long until puppies find that others puppies that do the same to them, and so their model change to "i get mine, and you get yours so lets not harm each other". You can see that virtually all social species. Also, puppies and children are really delicated at that stage, so anything can kill them, including each other (unless you are talking newly born, but no one expects newly born to have a concept of self to understand fairness), so they limiting to moving each other out of the way is a clear indication that they understand there is a limit.

@Goldenhawk583

3 ай бұрын

(Horrible) experiments have been made with animals. 2 rats gets treats they really like., When one rat gets a big treat and eats it, the other rat gets a short hit of electricity. Once the reats figured this out, the one getting the bigger treat stopped eating it.. saving the other rat from the electrical current. There was negative gain for the rat that stopped eating treats, no treat. Ther e was only positive gain for the other rat that wasnt electrocuted. monkeys were given grapes, at first they got the same size and an amount, then one got big ones, and the other got small ones.. the one who got big gtapes shared with the other monkey ( and they were upset with the handler). Animals get fairness, its innate. Newborn pups fighting for food to survive is not a fair situation. Adult dogs have often been observed sharing with packmembers.. not because they were told to or taught to, but they wanted to. Hyena pups DO kill eachother.

@ModelTrainOutsider

3 ай бұрын

@@Julian0101 I think, at the stage, they do not understand limits. While many things for survival are innate (chicks running from casted bird silhouettes immediately from the egg), the concept of restraint, I do not believe is there. A pup, as our discussion centers on, is either strong enough to push someone else out of the way or is not and waits or is denied altogether. It is not that they know there is a limit, it is they do as much as it takes as they can. Yet, even in your example, it is still not a sense of "fairness," but, as mentioned, a mode of not needing to kill, merely bully enough. The stronger pup, or lion cub is not concerned with being fair, but merely making sure THEY get THEIRS and the others who can be bullied are of no consequence, even if it means the runt dies. Even feeding mothers will not necessarily look out for the runt... much as a lioness will not overtly object to the new male lion, who has just taken over the pride, killing off the youngest cubs, which prompts the females to go into heat. Survival of the fittest/strongest is, inherently, not "fair."

When a person says "i believe in god" thats already the problem cuz they you will just be wasting ur time to prove urself

🔎 Your Bite-Sized Digest The discussion delves into the morality of following divine commands unquestioningly, the implications of Divine command theory, the nature of secular morality, and the role of personal moral judgment in religious beliefs. 🔑 Key Points 0:00: The caller, Shane, expresses dissatisfaction with the atheist content on morality and debates presented by the host, seeking a discussion on secular morality and theistic views. 8:24: Shane presents five premises, asserting that man is inherently moral, morality is derived from external sources, atheism does not promote a moral code, and evolution promotes relative morality. 19:02: The conversation navigates through Shane's perspective on the necessity of God for objective morality, discussions on the objectivity of morality, and the contrast between secular and theistic moral frameworks. 31:30: The conversation intensifies as the host challenges Shane's viewpoint, highlighting contradictions in trusting one's moral judgment while also believing in a moral deity. 42:10: The discussion escalates as both parties engage in a heated exchange, critiquing each other's beliefs, interpretations of morality, and the validity of personal moral compasses. 44:49: The conversation ultimately concludes with Shane expressing his beliefs in a different form of Christianity and asserting his understanding of morality in contrast to the host's views.

It’s just so sad what religion has done to Shane

"Morality" is pro-social behavior. Most of it is taught by other members of the social group one is born into and raised around. Many people throughout human history, many societies, have come to generally similar conclusions about what is and what is not pro-social behavior. I am skeptical even of the notion of "fairness" among primates. It is not an abstract virtue that drives our behavior, or that of the howler monkey, but an understanding of the need for the other in cooperative survival. What keeps that one alive keeps me alive, and vice versa. That's not "equity," that's a survival instinct in a social animal. Equity is codified, it's formalized, it means different things in different systems. A monkey has no more understanding of social justice than a Republican does, there's no reason to attribute high-minded abstract concepts where they can be explained otherwise.

'Shame' is the best argumrnt for atheism! 👍🏽😅

@Spooky90097

3 ай бұрын

The only thing shameful is the reality you make to feel better instead of accepting why we exist and what happens after. Instead of lying, help figure out what tf is going on.

@nondescriptcat5620

Ай бұрын

@@Spooky90097 word salad.

@Spooky90097

Ай бұрын

@@nondescriptcat5620 the bible?

@nondescriptcat5620

Ай бұрын

@@Spooky90097 indeed.

@Spooky90097

Ай бұрын

@@nondescriptcat5620 glad we can agree

The caller is seriously twisted. He started out trying to demonstrate that God exists by observing that He imprinted morality into us. Therefore, one can not claim that our own instincts regarding morality are our own. The caller thought that was a slam dunk argument. When he was shot down, he began to fall apart until he sunk to madness at the end of the video. 🙄

He thinks evolution is a advertising campaign. Hilarious.

sheesh... I'm sure there didn't used to be so many adds on this channel

@medalion1390

3 ай бұрын

I didn't get any and I'm not using an Adblock. Not sure if it depends what country you're in.

25:57 did he say “i don’t believe in rock in roll?” Nevermind that not making sense , you’re just fucked 🤣

Really

This caller just wants to generalize everything to make his POV somehow relevant and then what? Aint gonna happen!

Oh, is this that whiny Mark???