I went to secondary school in Upminster and travelled on the push-and-pull every day for a while. The slam door diesel trains were great fun for unruly kids. You could lean out of the open window, ducking quickly to dodge the trees which before electrification were neglected and quite overgrown. You could also jump out onto the wooden platform at Romford well before it came to a stop, daring your mates to make the leap at faster and faster speeds. I also seem to recall Emerson Park being called Emerson Park Halt in those days.

@Lynxfan2

2 жыл бұрын

The service on the Romford - Upminster Line would have been worked by DMU trains during the 1970s and 80s. It was not push pull with a Diesel locomotive at one end of the train with a cab in a carriage at the other end of the train. Best wishes and take care. Kind regards. Peter Skuce. St Albans. Hertfordshire.

@samp3180

2 жыл бұрын

I have similar memories too, they changed the name of Emerson Park about ten years ago now, think it might have been when LO took over actually. I still call it the Push and Pull, though that does seem to be dying out now!

@biddylisduff

2 жыл бұрын

@@Lynxfan2 I lived near Upminster as a kid, always known as the" Push and Pull" at the time.

@hypotheticlz

2 жыл бұрын

@@biddylisduff lived in Upminster my whole childhood and it was always called the push and pull, and I certainly was not around in the steam days

@gillas26

2 жыл бұрын

@@Lynxfan2 I grew up in Hornchurch and it has always been referred to locally as the Push and pull. Thanks to Jago's video I now know the origin of this term. Now to find out why a 'halt' isn't an end station ...

I was literally traveling on this line as I got a notification for this video 😂

@PatrickMapper

2 жыл бұрын

Haha that’s so good 😂

@dasreicht

2 ай бұрын

This video is longer than the whole journey. That must've been annoying

I used to live in that neck of the woods, and often used the shuttle to Upminster and get the fast train into London from there, rather than bus it to Hornchurch and sit forever on the district line.

The fact that it's useful as a connection between the main lines makes you wonder what other little connections could be put in, and puts the spotlight back on the foolishness of halting the croxley rail link. And I wonder if the Greenford to West Ealing branch is similarly useful

@sirmeowthelibrarycat

2 жыл бұрын

🤔 Indeed. The Greenford line once ran into Paddington Station. Then it ran between Greenford and Ealing Broadway. A very useful connection between two branches of the Central line. Now it stops short at West Ealing to allow for Crossrail services to operate.

@MichaelDembinski

2 жыл бұрын

@@sirmeowthelibrarycat It really ought to run from Greenford to Paddington as it once did.

@mrbojangles8133

2 жыл бұрын

Beeching was appointed by a minister who had friends and family in the roadbuilding business, but this had no influence on the report naturally

@grangetowncardiff6935

2 жыл бұрын

My dogs called Larwood. Do you know why?

@declanmcallister5990

2 жыл бұрын

Nice video

It might interest readers to note that when the Romford to Hornchurch line was built, excavations for the cutting near Hornchurch revealed the most southerly exposure of glacial deposits in in the Thames Valley. Here glacial till (Lowestoft Formation) deposited by the Anglian ice sheet at ~430 000 years ago rests on London Clay and underlies Thames' river gravels of the Boyn Hill Gravel. The work was published by Holmes (1892, 1894).

@jerribee1

2 жыл бұрын

I've just been humming and hawing about whether to buy a book on the geology of Britain; I think you just helped me make up my mind.

@philipgibbard304

2 жыл бұрын

@@jerribee1 A very wise investment!

@hughzarie1860

2 жыл бұрын

Didn’t they find quite a few fossils ? And I don’t mean from the bowls club or nursing home 😂

@philipgibbard304

2 жыл бұрын

@@hughzarie1860 No, no fossils in glacial deposits, unless they're derived from the bedrock.

@biddylisduff

2 жыл бұрын

I think they did later investigation too, as it was featured on TV during remedial work /maintenance on the Line. Actually stretches near to St. Andrews Church, Hornchurch. I think the Electricity Sub Station construction revealed more . Glad you gave the references, I think I read about it via Havering Libraries ( Local History). They post on Facebook. I went to school off Wingletye Lane, lots of local names with "tye", connected to Clay Tile ("Tye") Works, Essex Clay very useful. Cranham Brickfields also.

Romford-Upminster: I am the little line that could Waterloo & City: One of us, *ONE OF US!* Love that the Southend pier is so long that it has a railway on it...putting a railway on a pier is such a British thing to do

@JagoHazzard

2 жыл бұрын

I love a pier railway.

@kevinmartin8088

2 жыл бұрын

@@JagoHazzard So when are you doing a video on Southend's? Love to see it, as I moved away from the area in 1968! You need to do one, before they either have a fire, or a ship cuts through! Such is the history of the pier.

@michaelgamble296

2 жыл бұрын

I recall a ship or tug (whatever) ramming the Southend Pier. The most memorable thing about this event was the name of its Captain: Capt. Sludgetanker! Go on! Look it up!

@iankemp1131

2 жыл бұрын

@@kevinmartin8088 He's already done it, about a year ago! KZread doesn't seem to like links but a search on Jago Hazzard Southend Pier will bring it up.

@kevinmartin8088

2 жыл бұрын

@@iankemp1131 You're aren't going to believe this, but I've actually seen this before!!!! In fact, I must have seen it not long after Jago made it and perhaps it was my introduction to Jago's videos. Thank you for pointing out the obvious. 😀

I went on this line in 2023. I was on the way back from Brentwood through Romford (in no rush) and realised I could so I did. It was very enjoyable.

I always keep thinking it as the Emerson Lake Palmer station. Of course name of the 70s rock band for those not above a certain age

@highpath4776

2 жыл бұрын

Oh I wish that Freddie Laker had come from Emerson Park.

I use this line fairly regularly! I live in Dagenham, so taking the district line to Upminster, then the Overground to Romford is often significantly faster than taking direct buses.

I seem to remember that it was called Emerson Park Halt was because you had to ask the driver to stop at that station or put you arm up as you'd do for a bus as the train would be slow through the station. There was a coal yard towards the Romford end called Victoria Coal yard. long gone and built over

Kind of shows you can never tell how busy a line will be until it's built. Makes you wonder if there's anymore line that need to be considered for future building.

@perrydebell1352

2 жыл бұрын

What! Boris's £100 billion HS2 white elephant?

@timothymeyer3210

2 жыл бұрын

@@perrydebell1352 If you ask anyone inside the rail industry about it, they'll tell you why it's needed. The TL;DR is that the WCML is too overcrowded, and is at limit, so no more trains can be run over it. It can't be extended, as there's physically no space. So if you're going to build a new line in the 21st century, you might as well make it high-speed while you're at it. People will also understand the costs more if there's a time benefit to it, rather than just more trains and fewer cars & HGVs

@radagastwiz

2 жыл бұрын

As an urbanist I know likes to say, "it's hard to judge the need for a bridge based on counting the number of people who swim across the river".

@timothymeyer3210

2 жыл бұрын

@@radagastwiz I believe that was the former Mayor of Vancouver

@Titan604

2 жыл бұрын

@@radagastwiz Indeed, far better to count the people using boats. In London the biggest objectors to new bridges were the boatmen as they did not want to lose their income.

living in romford and relatives in upminster its very handy when you cant be bothered to use the busses

Great it survived, the truth about many of the Beeching closures, which actually weren't Beeching closures,it was the minister of motorways,sorry, transport who closed the lines, was that the facts/statistics were a stitch up. Traffic surveys were taken in quite periods and the projected costs for line and infrastructure maintenance, were costed as new, whereas in fact the infrastructure, lines, signals,stock etc were usually transferred down,we call it cascaded now, to lesser lines from the main lines and services. Thus it was possible to prove statistically how little used a line was and it's projected horrendous losses. What was kept quiet at the time and is still not widely known, is that there was a Beeching part two.

@neiloflongbeck5705

2 жыл бұрын

Whilst it is true that physical traffic surveys were done at quieter times of the year there are good reasons for that. One of which is it takes out of the figures any anolomiez caused by holiday traffic. However, BR had full year on year accounts of all passenger tickets sold at each station p,us returns showing parcels and goods delivered and sent out from each station. Which means they had the full economic and traffic figures for each station and line. By the early 1960s most lines had had their cascaded coaching stock withdrawn and replaced with new diesel multiple units, which hadn't been cascaded from anywhere. Whilst it is also true that signals and rails (sometimes es as track panels or individual rails) would he recycled from busy lines to quieter ones, the cost of the actual maintenance was not and could never be cascaded from anywhere. Let's take as an example the Whitby to Loftus line, which was closed by BR in the years before Beeching and one that the LNER was wanting to close if they could. The closure saved BR from spending £57,000 (in 1957 Pounds) on maintenance on the bridges, viaducts and tunnels over the period 1958 to 1960. None of this maintenance money was cascade from anywhere on the network. The Whitby to Loftus was famed for its sea views and cast iron viaducts only had 4 trains a day each way by the 1950s plus a few summer Saturday holiday trains (there was a bus every 30 minutes from Sandsend to Whitby alone.) As for freight very little originated on this line between Staithes and Whitby and often the pick up goods ran with nothing but a brake van for most of its run from Whitbyto Carlin How. Beeching's 2nd report (The Development of the Major Railway Trunk Routes) which came out in February 1965 published by HMSO, 4 months before he returned to ICI. Whilst perhaos no longer as widely known as The Reshaping of British Railways. Beeching gave many press interviews and at least one lecture on this report.

@lewisclark1122

2 жыл бұрын

Quite right. May the name of that transport minister - Ernest Marples - live in infamy.

@mallettdw

2 жыл бұрын

@@lewisclark1122 Earnest Marples, sold his stake in Marples Ridgeway, a major player in road construction at the time, to his wife. In 1975 he fled to Monaco fearing, it is claimed, a substantial bill for nearly 30 years' overdue tax.

@iankemp1131

2 жыл бұрын

@@neiloflongbeck5705 There were however some dodgy tricks pulled (as described above) to make bad figures look even worse. In an awful lot of cases it has to be said Beeching was right. There are other lines which would do OK today but were little used in the 1960s or even before; the Hertfordshire east-west lines mainly went pre-Beeching, and nobody thought to preserve the routes from piecemeal development. But some things leave a nasty taste. On the Isle of Wight they wanted to close Ryde-Ventnor and Ryde-Cowes; the Inspector announced after a couple of days that the case to retain the Ventnor line had been made and the objectors then switched all their efforts to the Cowes line, many not making their presentations. Then at the end of the inquiry British Rail suddenly introduced a proposal to terminate the Ventnor line at Shanklin, when it was too late for objectors to object. Losing its railway was particularly damaging for Ventnor because the road route is very hilly and twisting whereas the train went through a tunnel (still extant today as it carries Ventnor's water supply).

@paulhaynes8045

Жыл бұрын

Typical bloody Tories. Still, at least we learnt our lesson and stopped voting for them...

I remember travelling on the push-and-pull back in the 70s and early 80s when going between my grandparents' houses in Upminster and Chadwell Heath. On at least one occasion the driver invited my Dad and me into the cab for the trip.

@Lynxfan2

2 жыл бұрын

The service on the Romford - Upminster Line would have been worked by DMU trains during the 1970s and 80s. It was not push pull with a Diesel locomotive at one end of the train with a cab in a carriage at the other end of the train. Best wishes and take care. Kind regards. Peter Skuce. St Albans. Hertfordshire.

@dunebasher1971

2 жыл бұрын

@@Lynxfan2 Regardless, that's what it was called locally by pretty much everyone. And as Jago mentions in the video, older people still call it that today.

I've used this a couple of times, though not since TfL took the line over and branded it "Overground". Once was when I needed to get to Grays to nursemaid some computers in the town centre, the other was when I needed to retrieve my car from a certain dealer in Corbets Tey where it was being serviced. In a way there were a lot of similarities between Romford-Upminster and the now defunct Epping-Ongar line when LT still ran it in that it was single tracked, had few stops and used clunky old trains that were rarely seen elsewhere. It was also recorded by that there Geoff Marshall that TfL were responsible for removing the last references to "Emerson Park Halt" when they "updated" the signage during the change.

@farhanatashiga3721

2 жыл бұрын

It's funny to me how the line uses the up-to-date class 710 trains instead of just transfering a couple class 378 to there since let's be honest here the 710s is a bit overkill for a line that's less than 3.5 miles....

@chrisoddy8744

2 жыл бұрын

@@farhanatashiga3721 That may be because of the electrification - some of the 710s are just fitted for the 25kV AC system (for the GOBLIN, for example). As the Rompminster is all overhead, it makes sense to use trains that only need it like that, whereas the 378s have the 3rd rail capability - and therefore they're more needed in the lines that cross the river (the East/South/West/North London Lines). Hope that makes more sense...?

I used this line long before it became part of the Overground network. As a German exchange student living in Upminster, we changed at Romford and took a main line train to Fenchurch Street station.

@geol1000

2 жыл бұрын

@A. Fox we met friends in Romford and travelled together. I think it was Fenchurch Street then, it’s like 25 years ago

I've only used that line once (well, twice, once in each direction) when we were living at Limehouse and wanted to go to a specific shop in Romford. It's useful for that sort of thing.

The NYC version of this is the Franklin Avenue Shuttle. Which is even SHORTER than the Romford-Upminster line (nearly 1.4 miles/2.25 km compared to Romford-Upminster's 3.35 miles/5.4 km). The only current purpose of the Franklin Avenue Shuttle is to connect the IND Fulton Street Line (A/C services) to the BMT Brighton Line (B/Q services), along with the IRT Eastern Parkway Line (2/3/4/5 services) at Botanic Garden. Its original purpose was as part of a line to Coney Island, but an extension of the D to Coney Island via the Culver Line in 1954 put a dent to this service. It became a full-time shuttle in 1963. Unlike Romford-Upminster, the line has four stations, with three of them you can transfer to another service at (Franklin Ave, Botanic Garden, and Prospect Park). But like Romford-Upminster, it has its own dedicated station only served by it, Park Place. This station is unique in the NYC Subway system because it is the only station that is served by just a Shuttle service AND the only station to have a single-track that is NOT a terminal station. The Franklin Ave Shuttle service is also the subway's most punctual service, with an on-time average of over 99 percent...yes, the NYC Subway actually has a schedule, which is surprising to many of us because it feels like the subway train just shows up whenever it wants to

@farhanatashiga3721

2 жыл бұрын

Well it ought to be difficult to be late often when the whole line is less than 1.5 miles....

@Clavichordist

Жыл бұрын

I watched a cab ride done on that line. I thought it was odd being so short. Thank you for explaining why. My dad's aunt and uncle lived in Park Place and he used to visit them when he was a kid. He was talking about that the other day. Up in the Boston area there's the Ashmont to Milton trolley line. This line is unique in that it still operates refurbished vintage PCC trolley cars and is considered part of the red line which is a third-rail subway line that runs from Cambridge to Braintree. This was once a branch belonging to the New Haven Railroad and sold to the Metropolitan Transit Authority around 1922. The Ashmont end terminates at a loop and platform adjacent to the red line. The other end terminated in Milton Square with a couple of other stops in between.

Very interesting. I lived in Romford for years and only ever used this line twice - once to get to Tilbury for a rather ill-advised party (even more il-advised when, the next morning, I discovered there were no trains back), and once to get to a West Ham game when something (I can't remember what) had buggered up my normal route (Romford - Stratford - Mile End - Upton Park - which, now I come to write this, I'm no longer sure WAS actually the better route...). My memory of it was that the train was pretty much empty, no one got on or off at Emerson Park and the whole experience was rather surreal (Romford felt very much felt like an urban part of East London, and yet here was a tiny platform and an equally tiny train that meandered off through what felt like countryside to that 'posh bit of Romford' I'd only ever been to by car). To see it now, 50 years later, electrified, 'Overground' branded and busy, seems equally surreal. Mind you, not quite as surreal as seeing both the Overground AND Elizabeth Line roundels on Romford Station's entrance... If you live long enough, even completely unforseen and weird things can - and do - happen. The odd thing it seems to me is that they didn't take this oportunity to do more and extend this new Overground service on to Grays and Tilbury (via a very tempting stop at Lakeside - surely a revenue earing destination from Romford/Upminster/Grays/etc, if a decent service was available?) - perhaps even on to Southend? (Reviving the original District Line plans of a Southend to Windsor service.) It could even be possible to extend the Elizabeth Line to Southend via this route - although that really would mean me using the word 'surreal' overly much. Or even linking back to Barking to join the rest of the Overground system! Although, I'll admit, there is no point, other than a dangerously pedantic form of completeness, for this idea! I think I need to lie down now.

As an aside, the line also has its very own Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI). It is known as Hornchurch Cutting SSSI, just to the Romford Side of the foot crossing (now closed) that was between Woodhall Crescent and Maywin Drive. It is the only place where Thames Valley Gravels overlay the Hornchurch Till (a glacial deposit) and thus proves that the present day Thames Terraces are younger than the last ice age. The site is usually overgrown but ever 5 years or so, a chap is sent out with a strimmer to get the trackside brambles back under control and reduce the risk of fire. You need to get special permission from TfL to visit the SSSI, so don't trespass on the track.

I've used this line a lot over the years to reach my dentist in Upminster, and I've always found it to be busy even in off-peak times, so it's a very important connection. For years it suffered poor reliability due to the clapped-out trains used by British Rail and its successors, but under London Overground's tenure it has received brand new rolling stock, so I expect it will be more popular than ever.

8:03 - I SO want to write ‘Wombling free’ above Upminster on that sign!

@highpath4776

2 жыл бұрын

Go on, people wont notice it, they'll never see

When a very short line is interesting enough for a longer than usual video.

A quirky little gem in East London. Great video, thanks for sharing.

The first time I rode this line was in the the late 80s. The driver invited me into the cab as he said he had noticed me taking the number of the 315 as it pulled into Romford & he hadn't seen many rail enthusiasts around there before. That was my last cab ride on the mainline

I used to live in a flat overlooking Emerson Park station and commuted to Canary Wharf via Upminster from there. The service was always reliable and really handy to easily connect to other services. I’m glad it has survived and now part of TfL.

I always love having an excuse to ruse the shuttle train from Romford over to Emerson park or Upminster.

Like you, I had never traversed this line until last summer, despite having travelled on London’s railways for 60 years. As ever, a most enjoyably informative video. By way of help to those with a pestilentially overactive bladder, may I say how pleasant an experience using the loos at Upminster proved to be. Kudos to the team who looks after them. At my age these things matter!

@roboftherock

2 жыл бұрын

That's very good info, Stephen.

Nothing like a nice bit of quirk to start your day. Even better, unintentionally successful quirk. Win, win, win.

Once the Elizabeth line is fully integrated. I can see this service be even more useful.

@Bungle2010

Жыл бұрын

Fully integrated?

@Smart1529

Жыл бұрын

@@Bungle2010 that's means the whole line will be fully functional from Shenfield and Abbey Wood to Reading and Heathrow soon. That means services on the Overground at Romford will have more use due to connections with the Elizabeth line.

@Bungle2010

Жыл бұрын

@@Smart1529 it doesn’t go anywhere near Romford…….

@Smart1529

Жыл бұрын

@@Bungle2010 those purple trains you see that goes towards Liverpool Street via Stratford as well as Shenfield is the Elizabeth line.

"The Romford-Upminster Line: The Really Useful Little Line" would be as great of a title

Your sense of humor is much appreciated. Very refreshing.

That line goes past my late uncles garden. He said the reason it wasn't closed was because there was a bigwig who lived nearby and used the line.

When I go down to London from the north, I stay in Romford. This line was invaluable to me last year when the Elizabeth Line was out of action as it meant I could get to Upminster to get the District Line into the city. (I preferred it to getting the bus to Barking at any rate.)

@xParesh

4 ай бұрын

Why Romford out of interest? I live there and love it having lived all over London previously. The Elizabeth line has really been a game changer for the town. It’s very driver friendly and there are several hotels in town.

Lordy, that Thomas the Tank Engine joke got a laugh out of me. Thanks!

Love the sarcasm in this one. My childhood image of Thomas the Tank Engine as a kind of idyllic railway utopia ("one lung" behind the sheds) is now completely ruined.

As alluded to below, the LT&S aquired the land for the Grays to Upminster section with space for doubling if need be. The wonderful viaduct over Davy Down testifies to that thought process.

some district line stations in the area still carry LTSR ironwork in the canopies

Even more useful today for getting across to the Elizabeth line.

It's a useful link between the Great Eastern and LTS lines (I refuse to call the latter 'c2c'). It used to make a nice little round trip from Liverpool Street to Romford then down to Upminster and then back to Fenchurch St.

Great video. I lived in Romford, and used to go to Southend by train as a child. It was always far more fun to go via Upminster, than on the direct route!

@MeFreeBee

2 жыл бұрын

I may be the only person alive who spent their first 19 years living on either the Liverpool St line (Goodmayes) or Fenchurch St line (Upminster), yet have never even been close to Southend. I did once see it on a flight from Stockholm to Heathrow.

"One Lung Charlie sounds like Thomas The Tank Engine's creepy friend..." *standing ovation*

I fondly remember the push and pull trains on this little line, I travelled on them many times during my childhood, usually to go to and from Upminster where I stayed with my Auntie. I also remember the anguish that the Beeching report created in the local area. Thanks for all of your work on creating this video: You are the tank to my struggling engine!

I grew up using this railway, it was very handy for getting from Romford to South Essex and such. Many memories of meeting friends at Emerson Park Station. Was fascinating hearing the history of this line!

There is a tale that was told to me, many years ago, of a great uncle who lived in Romford - as did much of my father's family - and worked City-wards. One day he was late to the station, grabbed hold of the bar on the guards wagon as the train departed, and processed in huge bounds for some miles. I have no idea if it's true, but sounded funny to me. (Many of then pronounced it 'Rumford', I remember)

@englishciderlover7347

2 жыл бұрын

I could swear that there used to be a building next to Romford market that had the spelling 'Rumford'. It might be my memory deceiving me, though.

@rade-blunner7824

2 жыл бұрын

Romford is 900 years old so its spelling has been a sometimes inconsistent over the centuries, "Rumford" is a prominent spelling. I've seen it marked as "Rumford" in an old map before, the old market hall used to have "Rumford" written on it too.

@richardwager283

2 жыл бұрын

@@englishciderlover7347 yes you’re right 👍🏻 Rumford shopping hall maybe 🤔 was a C&A there too.

@biddylisduff

2 жыл бұрын

@@englishciderlover7347 you're right, it was called Rumford Shopping Hall! Even though I always knew the town as Romford, and the River Rom runs through it! Confusing, eh?

Damn if id have known you were coming down my way id have come out to put on a cameo appearance and offered you a pint as appreciation for your excellent videos.

thanks for making and posting this!

Fascinating as always, Jago !

I find all these stories fascinating. Thanks again Jago!

Regular uploads well done jago 👍🏻🇬🇧

We used to place halfpenny’s on the line at the Osbourne Road foot crossing on the line so the trains could flatten them. Great fun!

I love these fascinating little nuggets from Jago. They're small things that I've never been aware of but they make me want to take a trip on the trains just so I can say that I've done it.

Coincidentally, I travelled on this line for the first time last week and thought it was very choice, and rather strange! And now, for once, I can watch your videos knowing that I've been there! Awesome stuff.

Very interesting! I live near Romford and have only had a reason to use this line a couple of times in my life...

One Class 315 train used to operate on the Romford-Upminster branch line before it was replaced by the Class 710/1 AC only Aventra. Even a Class 317 where sometimes used on that route. Now it’s just 1 Class 710 train running between Romford and Upminster. And Geoff Marshall has done couple videos of that line and has done a video of Emerson Park. I have been on that route many times and it’s quite a short journey between the 2 main stations in the London Borough of Havering in East London.

You always fill my brain with new things I didn't know...Thank you!

I have used this branch line. It is delightfully quaint.

I remember the steam trains on this line in the 50's when we lived in nearby Cranham. My mum used to take me and my brother to Romford Market. We were fascinated by the train driver catching the loop from the man in the signal box just outside Upminster station. What happened if he dropped it, we wondered. But he never did - on our journeys anyway. And to this day I can picture Emerson Park Halt with a ticket collector, a smartly uniformed station master and somebody in the ticket office. We moved to Cranham in 1955 so if the steam trains were replaced a year later we obviously didn't make that many steam trips although curiously in my memory it seemed as though we did. I remember it being called the push and pull. We just missed it once and the wait for it to return seemed to us kids interminable!

Thank you for another fascinating railway story, Sir Jago.

Thank you for this video! I went to secondary school in Upminster and lived in Romford so I used this line almost every day for 7 years. This was 1997-2003 so I think it was class 313s and I don't think us schoolboys were particularly respectful of them! It was always known as the "push and pull" but I didn't really understand why since all trains I saw as a child were driven from either end!

It was also a test bed for CSR (cab secure radio) in the early 1990s. I worked Romford Signalbox in that time and it was a great experience

Ok, I live in London, and thought I knew everything about the overground and it’s routes, but I’ve never heard of this line!

@a1white

2 жыл бұрын

Just looked at a London overground map, they stick it in a square in the corner (Shetland isle style), that’s probably why I’ve never noticed it before

It was our main railway to go from Upminster to Romford for shopping, more and larger shops in Romford. Everyone around at the time called it the “Pull ‘n’ Push. It had quaint steam locomotives on with tall chimneys, probably LMS Class 2.

Thanks for the interesting video. I used to use the Emerson Park line on my way from Rayleigh to see my grandparents in Upminster. It was always a Cravens 2 car DMU. I'm glad the charming old canopy at Emerson Park has survived.

Great video. I have strong memories of this line. In the mid 70s schoolmates and myself used to walk along the line from one of the foot crossings and I remember seeing Emerson Park Station in the near distance. All this was probably not good behaviour but I was young and foolish but nobody got hurt. I remember the DMU go rumbling past as we stood out of the way.

Brilliant description of the GER/LTSR relationship as "passive-aggressive".

Came past the Chequers today and it reminded me of this. Old enough to remember mother taking me to Tilbury Riverside via Romford, Upminster and Grays - with a bit of steam power thrown in on the final leg[s]. Also seem to recall, when DMUs were 'de rigueur', the driver collecting his staff from a signalman(?) who was posted in a very small box, just as the train exited Romford station. Anyway Jago, as you've come this close, would love to see one of your odd odes giving details of the Romford Brewery line.

@donquixote2553

2 жыл бұрын

@A. Fox TR has not been for around 30 years from memory... I was referring to late 50s/early 60s #oldfart

Two short lines,of the same type of character in the New York area! They are the West Hempstead branch[Long Island Railroad] and the Princeton Junction- Princeton line,off the North East Corridor,in New Jersey,now operated by New Jersey Transit,formerly the Pennsylvania Railroad! Both lines have long histories,and worth exploring 👌! Thank you,Jago,for finding another obscure,but fascinating line,kudos 😀 😊 👍!

I have the book on the line published in 1964 by the group, containing many pictures actually on the line that Jago could have used. My father was on the committee of that group. The railway was finally saved not because BR changed their mind but because London Transport said that they did not have the buses, drivers or capacity to carry the passengers that used the train.

I'd noticed that building as it stands out a bit and remember checking online to see what it was. Really interesting to see it was second old railway station

All strangely obscurely entertaining stuff, fascinating everytime! And I am not really much of a train buff, or live in London either! Thank you!

As a senior with no car, I just wish the U.S. would do more rail!! Michigan has ir around Detroit, but only the train from GR through Holland to Chicago.

"To Tilbury, Southend, and that sort of place..." That cracked me up :) You periodically display a nice turn of phrase, me lad. You know, I went on this train, once (with mummy), somewhere around 1958, and there was a green slam-door DMU in service. Exciting!

The 370 covers the entire route these days and at one point even the section of line to Grays although that's now been cut back to Lakeside. It wasn't til the late 80s that the 370 was diverted to serve Emerson's Park however and before 1990/1 the route didn't even go up to the station at Upminster instead turning at the lights and heading towards Corbet's Tey. One thing that hasn't changed is the fact that the route has worked from Grays GY it's whole entire exsistance.

@MeFreeBee

2 жыл бұрын

I only remember the 248 bus route in Upminster. Mind you, I haven't been there since 1982.

@oddcinema

2 жыл бұрын

My friends and I used to get the 370 between Grays and Romford; the train services were so infrequent that the hour or so it took was quicker than two train rides.

@MetroTitanD78

2 жыл бұрын

@@MeFreeBee you had a 248a for many years too that just went between the station and Corbet's Tey and I'm assuming that when the route was withdrawn the 370 and 373 were diverted to serve the station in both directions. The 248 itself only worked around Upminster and Cranham before being extended to Romford.

@silenthunteruk

2 жыл бұрын

The 370 does cover the route, but takes longer. If you time it right, the train is much quicker.

@MetroTitanD78

2 жыл бұрын

@@silenthunteruk about 30 minutes run time I believe although the last time I properly rode on it the 370 still had Atlanteans on it.

More cracking maps! And an insight into a railway I'd never heard of. Ta.

Watching this on a rail replacement bus from Upminster

@JagoHazzard

2 жыл бұрын

My condolences.

@nicholasmichaluk

2 жыл бұрын

@@JagoHazzard thank you

A brilliant video, always wondered if Romford had a separate station for the line.

Used to use it coming home from work back in the days before it was electrified when it was operated by diesel multiple units. Leaving the bright lights of Upminster in the cold wet winters evenings, you sat in a warm diesely fug illuminated by 40 watt light bulbs as you perambulated through the rural darkness. Emerson Park Halt loomed into view, the light from the original Sugg gas lamps reflecting off the rainsoaked platform. It all went in the 80s when it was electrified and I always wondered what happened to the gas lamps - which were converted in the early 70s to burn natural gas! The halt never really lost it's rural aspects and is a bit of a time warp. I recall watching an 08 class shunting loco bashing coal trucks into Victoria Road Coal yard and Hall and Co siding at the Romford end. The line still provides a link for many. Happy days!

4:48 - I think that the Midland acquisition of the LT&SR was for the Tilbury boat train traffic (the port was popular for liners, 'Empire Windrush' docking there in 1948 and there are still some freight ferries now); they ran services from St Pancras to Tilbury Riverside. You actually got boat train Class 308s too.

Very interesting story. Quite fascinating to hear and learn about my local area on KZread. Definitely explains alot of things about the 'push and pull' (what we call it) such as it feeling completely separated at Romford station.

If I remember correctly, the line from Tilbury and Grays used to be able to run into Upminster on the Up Main and from there cross over the LUL District line and join the Romford- Upminster push-pull line thereby enabling through trains between Liverpools Street and the Liverpool Street lines and Tilbury Riverside for boat passengers.

I frequently travel through Romford and wondered about that line.

Not surprised that when the residents of Emerson Park shouted they were heard. It has always been a prestigious area, which was its ‘founder’s’ intention. In 1895 William Carter, of Parkstone, Dorset, bought 20 acres of Nelmes Manor and Lee Garden Manor to build ‘country villas for city gentlemen’. Carter put up a wide variety of dwellings, from bungalows to family houses with accommodation for servants, and named the estate after his eldest son, Emerson.

@highpath4776

2 жыл бұрын

Wish it had Palm Trees , and a Lake, then it could be Emerson Lake and Palm, er, Halt ?

@Tonydjjokerit

2 жыл бұрын

@@highpath4776 Groan!!!!

It was exciting to join you on a new to you line!

No word of a lie, just the other month I looked at this line on a tube map and muttered "I bet Jago has done a video on this." Promptly forgot to check, tonight it comes up in my recommendeds. Very amusing. You really do cover everything.

Fanfare to a common man :) I like the two Romford station signs scene. Very neat. * Emmerson, Lake and Palm..er never mind. It was tenuous.

A very interesting video - Thank you Jago Hazzard. That the LTSR was a part of the M.R. is acknowledged by its inclusion in the 'Midland Railway System Maps (The Distance Diagrams)' Volume 3. which volume also includes the Midland & Great Northern Joint Railways and the Norfolk and Suffolk Joint Railways as well as Leicester, Bedford and St. Pancras terminus. How convoluted can this get? Another Volume (4) includes the Somerset and Dorset Railway! The M.R. tentacles spread far and wide! - even as far as Welsh Wales and Scotland! A great source of information these System Maps!

I used this line daily in 2009 to get to Grays from Romford. Made my journey a lot quicker

Dear Sir !! ........... Nice ONE .............GodBless

You need your own tv channel, great as usual

Hi , one of my lines I used to to look after until 2011. The 315 class was running then. Gosh it looks so different now.

We had a push-pull line in Rutland. It ran to and fro between Seaton Junction and Stamford via Morcott and Luffenham. It was much used by pupils of the Girls' and Boys' Schools, which primly insisted on labelled compartments separating "Boys" and "Girls" (corridorless stock).

I’m from Upminster so, apart from finding the video fascinating and informative, I very much appreciate the time and effort you must’ve taken to get all the footage, considering the frequency of the service! 🤣

Excellent Story- Very interesting and great dialogue

Thanks Jago,

Although built with a single line, the views you show seem to suggest that a they left enough space to squeeze in another line if ever required?

I love how many 19th-century industrial things were only built because the people in charge of some company thought, "Well, we don't really want to build this, but..." (glance across the street at The Competition) "... we don't want _them_ to build it even more."

@scythal

2 жыл бұрын

That still happens nowadays, just not in the railway industry sadly...

Thanks!

Fascinating as ever, mr Hazzard. If I ever become one of those who bashes track, this would be a fun journey to do

I live at Emerson Park and have never used this station in 12 years. We just hop down to Upminster bridge for the District line or get on the bus to Gidea Park to get into Romford.

@rogerdines6244

2 жыл бұрын

If you get your timings right, this route is much quicker to get to Romford-five minutes instead of, probably twenty or thirty. Why they still only run it as a half-hour service each way is beyond me-it would be much better used if the service was increased. Also I believe it is still timed so as to meet the down service to the country, rather than the up service to London at Romford-if they brought it forward by five minutes it would meet both trains.

@sheelakaru

2 жыл бұрын

@@rogerdines6244 you're right it probably would be quicker if I could remember the timings!