The Rebirth of a Troubled Heavy Fighter -The Messerschmitt Me 210 and Me 410 | Parts Of History

Ғылым және технология

It's difficult to come up with a good sequel [something I've learned firsthand after the unexpected success of the Fulmar documentary - thanks, by the way!], but even more so when that involves replacing a legendary aircraft like the Messerschmitt Bf 110. Here, we take a look at how Messerschmitt struggled to perfect its mid-war heavy fighter designs - the Me 210 and Me 410 - and why these troubled Zerstorers didn't see much success in combat.
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Links to sources:
- theaviationgeekclub.com/the-m...
- www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/a...
- germanwarmachine.com/weapons-...
- www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research...
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Music Attribution:
Video Game Soldiers by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 licence. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Source: www.twinmusicom.org/song/295/v...
Artist: www.twinmusicom.org

Пікірлер: 81

  • @GyulaPozsgay
    @GyulaPozsgay2 жыл бұрын

    As I know (based on Csaba B Stenge's works) the fuselage of the C version was lengthened by Hungarian engineers and this was used later on the 410 version. They made some improvements on the cooling system too. One of the reasons the leading edge was moved forward on the 410 was the larger and heavier DB 603 engine which moved the centre of gravity a bit forward too. My grandfather was gunner on Me 210 Ca-1in the Royal Hungarian Air Force and the crew really liked that bird and was much more afraid of air defenses than of enemy fighters. On a mission (dive bombing the train station in Orosháza) on 1944. October 23. the single plane of my grandfather Tibor Vörös and his pilot valiant József Orbán was attacked by 9 Yak-9 fighters (they were usually last of the flight because Orbán had 8 years flight experience, the most in the squadron). They shot down two of the Yaks in 2 minutes (confirmed victories 13:20 Gádoros, 13:22 Nagyszénás) the other seven leaved. I'm working now on a comic book about this mission actually drawing my grandfather's Me 210 Ca-1 (registration number Z-094) pulling up from dive bombing so I enjoyed this video a lot in my luch break :) Thank You!

  • @Thermopylae2007

    @Thermopylae2007

    2 жыл бұрын

    If the Germans had produced more 210 and 410s earlier in the war, I suspect that they would have performed well on the Eastern Front, where ground attack capability and the ability to outpace Soviet fighters would have been significant improvements over the Stukas and Henschell 126 tank busters. Sadly, many Hungarian Me 210s were quickly lost once they came up against American fighter-escorts later in the war.

  • @Sacto1654
    @Sacto16542 жыл бұрын

    The Me 210 was a failure not only because of the stability issues, but also the fact the plane was a bit underpowered. The newer Me 410 did correct most of the stability issues and used the more powerful DB 605 engine.

  • @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935

    @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935

    2 жыл бұрын

    603, the 601/5 were the Bf109 engines.

  • @Impori
    @Impori Жыл бұрын

    Thank you so much, I was searching the entire internet for videos on how the gunner position worked in the ME410 and your video helped me tremendously! Thank you so much!

  • @BrianWMay
    @BrianWMay2 жыл бұрын

    Excellent presentation and the speed of narration was spot on. Thank you.

  • @dutybod1
    @dutybod12 жыл бұрын

    Well researched and beautifully made video full of interesting content that I had not heard before. Thanks for the effort you put into this to tell a story. Subscribed!

  • @Kriegloaf
    @Kriegloaf2 жыл бұрын

    Underrated channel

  • @steffenrosmus9177

    @steffenrosmus9177

    2 жыл бұрын

    Nope, overrated rebirth? Lol as a model yes, as an original : no.

  • @schore69
    @schore692 жыл бұрын

    ... your editing makes me chuckle, but the good way. reminds me of 80s or 90s documentaries and i like it !

  • @partsofhistory595

    @partsofhistory595

    2 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Markus! As it happens, those old aviation documentaries were part of the inspiration behind these videos!

  • @chrisframpton7681
    @chrisframpton76812 жыл бұрын

    Wow, I am impressed! You really did a nice job with this channel. I pray the KZread algorithm gods get this in front of more people. Nicely done 👏

  • @partsofhistory595

    @partsofhistory595

    2 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Chris, glad you enjoyed the video!

  • @tB3o3tR9o9
    @tB3o3tR9o910 ай бұрын

    i have the original User Manual for the 410 and for all the other famous german planes, including the manuals of the MG's, Canons, Gunsights and even the Control Sticks. All as PDF files.

  • @shawnkelley9942
    @shawnkelley99422 жыл бұрын

    Nice job. Thank You

  • @MGB-learning
    @MGB-learning2 жыл бұрын

    Outstanding video and presentation.

  • @ArtietheArchon
    @ArtietheArchon11 ай бұрын

    the Me-410 with 1750hp per engine suffered from the same root issue as all German propeller aircraft, it was lucky to get 87 octane fuel going against 2800hp engined fighters running 150 octane. No amount of ingenuity can overcome such a huge detriment in horsepower made possible by large amounts of insanely high quality fuel, hence Germany rushing to jet aircraft instead

  • @Capt.Turner
    @Capt.Turner2 жыл бұрын

    Great video. Btw, the conversion kit is called Umrüst-Bausatz.

  • @karltownsend4105
    @karltownsend41052 жыл бұрын

    Thank you. I really enjoyed this video, for the subject and the well presented details which explain so much. :3

  • @partsofhistory595

    @partsofhistory595

    2 жыл бұрын

    Glad you enjoyed the video Karl!

  • @andrewclark891
    @andrewclark8912 жыл бұрын

    Excellent video

  • @kuryakin2483
    @kuryakin24832 жыл бұрын

    Actually the Me410 was pretty devastating early in the air war against unescorted B17 and B24 formations. Using rockets and heavy firepower, including a 50mm cannon version, they were responsible for many of the bomber kills during the early catastrophic 8th AF missions like Schweinfurt-Regensburg. Once escorts could follow the bombers all the way to the target, the Me410 became easy pickings and was too costly to maintain compared to single seat fighters like the FW190 and bf109. Me410 wasn’t really a bad aircraft. Just the wrong aircraft for what Germany needed at that stage of the war.

  • @CaseyBartley

    @CaseyBartley

    2 жыл бұрын

    I think the real difference is not twin vs single engine necessarily (P38K could have been the best fighter of ww2), it's single seat vs multicrew. Climb rate as well was very important and the 410 suffered there. While the Tigercat didn't see combat in WW2 (just barely), that type of thought process is what would have been a design victory in midwar for interception. High rate of climb, fast and heavy guns. FW190s, also, could carry very heavy armaments and took over those duties by the time the 410 was being pulled back to other roles. They had their own struggles at bomber altitudes...

  • @skittlesbutwithchocolatein2274

    @skittlesbutwithchocolatein2274

    2 жыл бұрын

    Good point

  • @skittlesbutwithchocolatein2274

    @skittlesbutwithchocolatein2274

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@CaseyBartley I agree great rate of climb with heavy guns its where its at Ta154 best attempt never realized?

  • @CaseyBartley

    @CaseyBartley

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@skittlesbutwithchocolatein2274 German probably, US I would say the Tigercat.

  • @loopwithers
    @loopwithers Жыл бұрын

    I discovered and excavated a crashed Me. 410 which had been shot down over Surrey after an attack on London. It had gone down almost vertically. I sent the parts to IWM and they confirmed it. After four weekends, I apparently reached the cockpit. The two kids were only eighteen and nineteen years old, according to their war graves. I was sixteen. I suddenly grew up. I said a prayer for them. I replaced the soil over them and walked away.

  • @oxcart4172
    @oxcart41724 ай бұрын

    10:48 that bloke really knew what he was doing!

  • @pierredecine1936
    @pierredecine1936 Жыл бұрын

    Well Made, I'm reading "Big Week" by James Holland atm.

  • @rolandhunter
    @rolandhunter5 ай бұрын

    A veeeerry good video! Nice jobb!

  • @brealistic3542
    @brealistic35422 жыл бұрын

    The 410 was actually pretty good but it's mission was no longer needed. The 110 could do what was needed now.

  • @camberweller
    @camberweller2 жыл бұрын

    Good work.

  • @chrisohh5612
    @chrisohh56122 жыл бұрын

    1000 subs! Whoot!

  • @brianperry
    @brianperry2 жыл бұрын

    I remember reading John Cunningham saying '' Its one of those they will never catch me at this speed'' has he injected nitrous-oxide into the merlins, then prepared to fire a burst of 4 x303 and 4x20mm into the hapless Me210..

  • @hoodoo2001
    @hoodoo20016 ай бұрын

    The 56th Fighter Group retained their P-47's for bomber escort as the range issue was rectified with additional fuel tankage but the P-47 was superior to the P-51 in ground attack so groups escorting B-17's were equipped with the P-51 while P-47's were concentrated generally for ground attack and airfield interdiction. As compared to the P-47, the P-51 was an overall equal, not a superlative. After the invasion, and airfields were established in France any range issue became moot. By the time the P-51 came into battle in any numbers the P-47 had already defeated the cream of the Luftwaffe. As for Japan, while P-51D's were initially used as bomber escort, the new extra-long range P-47N's, a derivation of the powerful P-47M used by the 56th, were being organized to be committed to the Invasion of Japan. For too long this suggestion of P-51 superiority over the P-47 has been allowed to be continued. It is a testament to US tech and industrial capacity that the US was able to produce the two best fighter aircraft produced in large numbers in WWII.

  • @dwightcrapson135
    @dwightcrapson13511 ай бұрын

    This might be a good video, if it were recorded with a volume level high enough for me to be able to hear it on my phone.

  • @kennethcrowther2277
    @kennethcrowther22772 жыл бұрын

    The Me410 was a good aircraft but not at the right time and in too few numbers. Aircraft success relies as much on circumstances as good design.

  • @sasquatchycowboy5585
    @sasquatchycowboy55852 жыл бұрын

    The ME-210 is a great example of fly before you buy. Glad no air force ever made that mistake again.

  • @seanmcardle
    @seanmcardle2 жыл бұрын

    Good job

  • @timmyotoole1010
    @timmyotoole10102 жыл бұрын

    Me 210 / Me 410 Maravillosas Aves de Presa. 👍👍

  • @danieljames2015
    @danieljames20152 жыл бұрын

    Similar to much earlier Westland Whirlwind, which was good to fly, but failed due to lack of Merlins to improve the performance.

  • @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935

    @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935

    2 жыл бұрын

    Not really, a DB603 was 44 litres, the dead-end Whirlwind’s useless Rolls Royce Peregrine was just 21 litres and incapable of significant development.

  • @danieljames2015

    @danieljames2015

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 That is why I said because of lack of Merlins. Things were prioritized.

  • @kennethcrowther2277
    @kennethcrowther22772 жыл бұрын

    In fact the 410 was a perfectly good aircraft, and the plane the 210 should've been. It was just too late for the 410 to be built in great numbers and be effective.

  • @Pimthrow
    @Pimthrow2 жыл бұрын

    Me 110 was the Y Wing of the Luftqaffe, the Me 410 the B-Wing.

  • @traxel14
    @traxel149 ай бұрын

    Just a short notice: it is spelled "Bausätze", or "Bausaetzte" in German.

  • @OldManAndTheSeaOfTooManyCats
    @OldManAndTheSeaOfTooManyCats2 жыл бұрын

    How many 109s and 262s did Messerschmitt NOT build due to pursuing this design dead end?

  • @thecircusfreak5364

    @thecircusfreak5364

    Жыл бұрын

    I’m sure the pilot shortage was the greater shortcoming.

  • @k1200ltse
    @k1200ltse2 жыл бұрын

    Good video but one glaring mistake. The Me410 couldn't participate in the Battle of Britain as that ended officially on the 31st of October 1940, long before it was even first flown....

  • @partsofhistory595

    @partsofhistory595

    2 жыл бұрын

    Yes, the Battle of Britain did end in 1940, but the Me 410 did participate in the Operation Steinbock raids. I guess I confused the Baby Blitz (aka Steinbock) with the Blitz in the Battle of Britain, and didn't realise my error. Apologies for the confusion, and glad you enjoyed the rest of the video!

  • @georgepasson5656
    @georgepasson56562 жыл бұрын

    @19:18 FWIW Conversion Kit = Umrüstbausatz (singular) or Umrüstbausätze (Plural), not Umrust-Bauzatse.

  • @user-zx7dp3qp6u
    @user-zx7dp3qp6u11 ай бұрын

    The thing that failed the German air forces was the ability to provide engine's for the aircraft

  • @nigelsmith7366
    @nigelsmith73662 жыл бұрын

    You got the 50mm weapon load out wrong it only had the 50mm gun with the 20mm nose guns

  • @johncotter9356
    @johncotter93562 жыл бұрын

    With hindsight it's easy to see this was a dead-end /cul de sac concept. They should have noted that the writing was on the wall for the ME110 type anyway so an upgrade was really not essential to persevere with. In fact the 110 and the JU88 were progressively upgraded/modified as time went on, and the FW190 became a good fighter-bomber in its own right.

  • @chrisframpton7681

    @chrisframpton7681

    2 жыл бұрын

    Good point. I do feel, however, that this type had the potential to be a great DEDICATED long-range, anti shipping platform….but I don’t think the B-5 variant was ever really seriously perused, as far as I can tell. There is just so little information on the type and basically zero information of its operational history (if any)

  • @skittlesbutwithchocolatein2274

    @skittlesbutwithchocolatein2274

    2 жыл бұрын

    I agree. Germans did not predict bombing campaigns as they turned out to be. Fast climb and heavy guns aircraft what should have been done after 110 ?

  • @user-be6di5js7b
    @user-be6di5js7b2 жыл бұрын

    Consider an aerodynamically unstable plane as the me 210 using a fly by wire flight control.......maybe the design was a little bit ahead of its time!!!!

  • @lothargripp3162
    @lothargripp31622 жыл бұрын

    ja, wie war das eigendlich mit der Bristol Blenheim und ihrer eingedellten Kanzeil, oder der Havoc, oder der Morauder, oder die sog. Moskito, alles Kampfflugzeuge ?!

  • @raypurchase801
    @raypurchase8012 жыл бұрын

    I assumed from the title that a 210 or a 410 had been restored to flying condition. I'm disappointed.

  • @tB3o3tR9o9
    @tB3o3tR9o910 ай бұрын

    the A10 Warthog of the 40's^^

  • @kurtwollermann2210
    @kurtwollermann22102 жыл бұрын

    all these planes gobbled huge amounts of fuel and when the germans failed to capture the oil fields in baku in 1943 it was game over.............and imagine what the tigers gobbled

  • @raypurchase801

    @raypurchase801

    2 жыл бұрын

    The loss of Ploesti in the summer of '44 sealed the deal.

  • @dongilleo9743

    @dongilleo9743

    2 жыл бұрын

    Plus the western allies started bombing German synthetic oil plants in 1944 or earlier in preparation for D-Day.

  • @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935

    @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935

    2 жыл бұрын

    The master race got pretty big headed and ignored planning the big picture. With invading the Soviet Union with a single knock-out blow in mind why did they first get involved with Italy’s shambles in Greece? It led to their abject paralysis in the first Russian winter with their very limited fuel reserves consumed and their horses dying.

  • @hertzair1186
    @hertzair11862 жыл бұрын

    We can forgive Messerschmitt the 210….when the ME-262 arrived.

  • @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935

    @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935

    2 жыл бұрын

    Thank Messerschmitt for wasting Nazi resources, he used slaves and worked for contemptible murderers.

  • @bronsonperich9430
    @bronsonperich94302 жыл бұрын

    Was it a case of asking for too much? The Ju-88 was great, the Beaufighter was great...

  • @danharold3087
    @danharold30872 жыл бұрын

    [Smart butt warning] Obviously fitting the 210 with MCAS would have solved all its problems.

  • @wasrio1403
    @wasrio14032 жыл бұрын

    Good content but did you need to repeat yourself 3 times

  • @pyotty
    @pyotty2 жыл бұрын

    The Luftwaffe entered the war with mostly outdated and obsolete aircraft and the German aircraft industry was never able to keep pace with the American development and deployment of superior aircraft. They were always in a mode of playing "catch up", with the notable exception of the excellent Me-262 jet fighter, unfortunately for them it was too little too late.

  • @ThatsMrPencilneck2U
    @ThatsMrPencilneck2U2 жыл бұрын

    The reason that American bombers were not escorted all the way into Germany was a failure of doctrine, not the limited range of American fighters. At the time, P-47's were plumbed to carry enough fuel in drop tanks that could extend their range more than adequately to escort the bombers. The introduction of the P-51 allowed USAAF generals to cover up their bad decisions. Much WW2 propaganda is repeated, and much of it is pretty heavily shaded, if not complete BS.

  • @partsofhistory595

    @partsofhistory595

    2 жыл бұрын

    Interesting information, Paul. Pretty much all the sources I used when researching escort fighters still say that range was the primary reason for fighters being forced to turn back, so it is surprising to hear that poor strategy can also be blamed for the lack of bomber protection. Definitely something I'll have to take a deeper look into...

  • @4vepvik781

    @4vepvik781

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@partsofhistory595 Check it out!!!..It's a scandal amongst many covered up!!.

  • @ThatsMrPencilneck2U

    @ThatsMrPencilneck2U

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@partsofhistory595 Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles did a pretty in depth analysis of this subject a few months back. I was very receptive, because I think the old P-40 would have remained America's premier fighter aircraft, if resources had been thrown at it, like the Germans did the Bf-109.

  • @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935

    @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935

    2 жыл бұрын

    Greg’s theory, ignores the weight and huge fuel consumption of the P-38 and P-47s. In 1943 many tankers were being sunk in the Atlantic, fuel was precious. The fuel to get one of those over Germany could power two _cheaper_ P-51s.

  • @ThatsMrPencilneck2U

    @ThatsMrPencilneck2U

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 The P-47 was definitely a gas guzzler. Still, the 8th Air Force was experimenting with adding bombers with extra machine guns to make formations more defensible. If you have the fuel to throw extra bombers at the problem, you have the fuel for gas hogs, like the P-47. This wasn't a problem of material, but the commanders of the 8th firmly believed the bombers could defend themselves. During Vietnam, we were conducting interdiction bombing with aircraft, like the F-105. The fighters we had in the 1960's were pretty much super-sonic bombers, because LaMay held so firmly to the idea that "the bomber will always get through."

  • @johannesfeigl5309
    @johannesfeigl53097 ай бұрын

    The me 410 failed as it was under poweredand when the american escort fightersapearedthey were swept from theskies😮the bk 50 mm canonwaspeone ro ne too jammingandit was not likedby its pilots😮

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