The best advice I ever got in VT-2 was: "It'll take 5 seconds to realize you have a problem. It'll take 5 seconds to BELIEVE you have a problem and it'll take 10 seconds to deal with the problem. In that third of a minute, you will be the first one to the crash site. Do your best to shorten the time involved."

@JimOmlid

2 жыл бұрын

This is great advice; glad you followed it! :)

@timarnold9969

2 жыл бұрын

@@JimOmlid Thank you. Yes, it WAS great advice, since the "Old Sage" was just a 25 year-old Navy Lt... I have used the same advice/saying over the last 40-plus years in my flying career. A civilian instructor, when I was a teen said: "If yer flying' at night and the motor quits, turn on yer landin' light. If whatcha see out there looks disagreeable, turn-off yer landin' light" (in his best Chuck Yeager drawl), as he sucked on a Pall Mall non-filter. The latter's advice was not as good as the former's...

@spyone4828

2 жыл бұрын

Decades ago I saw a documentary filmed aboard a carrier where they happened to get a launch gone wrong on film, and got to talk to the pilot and second seat afterwards. The pilot said "he yelled EJECT, EJECT, EJECT and he'd said it three times before I understood what he was saying because I was so focused on trying to save the airplane." They had rolled just past 90 degrees when the pilot's seat ejected, so it only kinda fired him towards the sea.

@georgehaeh4856

2 жыл бұрын

Winch launching gliders, we talk ½ second response time

@steveperreira5850

2 жыл бұрын

Here is the best way to shorten the time involved in decision-making, one word….. “AUTOMATION” I am constantly amused by all of these retired military pilots, and I know they are good flyers, but they cannot fly like automation can. The sooner human pilots are obsolete the better. Dumb NASA, dumb as they are, they know that pilots should not be flying rockets because the reaction time is too slow, you will get oscillation and crash. Or any number of other ways to fail. Don’t take my word for it, I’m just a little old private pilot, yeah I have an engineer in degree, yeah I worked on a lot of aerospace projects. If you really want to be amused, Google what Elon musk said about fighter pilots. He has a lot of clout. Shocked the Air Force crowd at the engagement he was invited to speak at. I guess military officers will have to find the good old fashion way to get dates with hot women, to charm them. You won’t have $100 million or so airplane to back you up. Ha ha Ha

Ward, I am a retired fighter plot with 24 years in the F106/F15 aircraft, and you just demonstrated the attitude, demeanor, and professionalism that is absolutely necessary to advance safety in flying aircraft, well done sir!

@touristguy87

3 жыл бұрын

seems to me that he just demonstrated the attitude, demeanor and "professionalism" necessary to advance his career in the Navy during this time, and essentially blame the pilot for her own death, not blame the Navy for either putting her in the plane in the first place and having done so fail to train her sufficiently to fly it and land it on a carrier safely or at the least abort a landing and eject safely. Watching this video you really have to wonder just when the Navy put engine failures on final into their sim training and whether the EA-6 would have handled markedly different from the F-14A and whether that had anything to do with the retirement of the F-14 and the reliance on the Hornet and unmanned anti-missile systems for fleet-defense going forward.

@artbugbee7236

3 жыл бұрын

@@touristguy87 All the military services investigate accidents to find the cause, then make recommendations to prevent it from happening again. Aviators want to know the truth about what happened and why, and what changes the accident board suggests. We all survive in this business by learning from the mistakes and tragedies of others. The quest for the cause can seem brutal to those looking on, I can understand the concerns you have raised but what I heard was the narrative of what the pilot did, it was not judgmental, no emotional language, just the facts.

@touristguy87

3 жыл бұрын

@@artbugbee7236 ...so you don't see "the facts" as a judgement?

@touristguy87

3 жыл бұрын

@@artbugbee7236 look, here's my opinion of his video. He brought out several questions, good questions, and simply avoided answering them, instead he summed up his video by saying that A-the pilot (whose sex is irrelevant to the plane, but certainly not to the Navy which chose to put her in one) "didn't follow the boldface" B- when another pilot followed her inputs in the sim, he crashed just as she did C-when he followed the boldface he didn't crash, in fact he was able to "recover the plane" D-he was consistently able to recover the plane. E-the LSO might have confused her by calling out "power!" when the roll became excessive. Aside from the late punch-out which ultimately is what killed her, let's just ask the obvious questions here for clarity. I'll let you start since you might as well help to demonstrate how obvious those questions are.

@touristguy87

3 жыл бұрын

Also I seem to remember seeing a video on this subject before, it quite possibly was another crash on landing (I've definitely seen this crash from rear view) I'm not sure which was an F4 crash or an F-14 crash but I remember one crash where the LSO clearly called out "abort!" 3 times. Also I remember seeing that F-14 blowoff "mishap" in another video, where the LSO (or was it someone else, maybe some carrier version of ATC) clearly shouted "eject!" multiple times as the plane was blown over the side. Would you care to go back over this video again and tell us what the LSO said in this case? I don't think it was much, so it shouldn't take long to type it out.

Short version seems to be: you have about half a second to stop your natural reaction to what a close to stalling airplane is doing and follow that checklist, if you don’t you’re dead --no matter who’s at the stick. Great stories, Sir. I think this important work you are doing

@ncc74656m

4 ай бұрын

One of my favorite phrases in aviation training is "When something goes wrong, the first thing you do is wind your watch." Obviously in a given situation the point isn't about how much time you have to react to save your aircraft, it's about avoiding those instinctual reactions and letting your brain catch up and run things by the numbers. I do think though that's why it's important for training to be more than "the book." Pilots have got to know why it is that way, and then do it, repeat it, and get it baked into their reactions. Even in GA this is the number one rule - you lose engine power or anything goes wrong with the engine, you push over and gain airspeed. Airspeed is options. Kara may not have picked up what other pilots did, but I think it's also fair to point out how many pilots ended up in the same situation and how they'd have pulled it out. That's why your training has to be tailored to the pilot to some level.

Excellent presentation!! My brother was an F4 pilot in Vietnam era. Later was flight instructor in Pensacola A salute to Lt. Robert M. Dallas (1944-2016)!

@masoncampbell3314

4 ай бұрын

RIP to your brother man and I appreciate his service.

@No_ReGretzky99

Ай бұрын

Rip to your brother I appreciate his service❤❤

I feel I have just spent 15 minutes trying to memorize a procedure that under no foreseeable circumstance am I ever going to use. Still worth it.

@rekit7351

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/kZyG06mpl8fgZLg.html if u like piloting checklists, you'll like this.

@glennkitchen2646

3 жыл бұрын

No foreseeable circumstance…you don’t just study what you intend to have happen, that’s the simple part!

@beechbonanza3895

3 жыл бұрын

@Frank HeuvelmanAdapt it: "Keep your head down. Avoid getting your arms or legs tangled up. Go forward, move ahead. Use minimal effort to avoid impediments and keep moving. If your luggage is slowing you down, get rid of it."

@beechbonanza3895

3 жыл бұрын

Hand carried luggage. Not package. Perv.

@MrBothandNether

3 жыл бұрын

maybe we all failed to keep it in the air, in a past life

I was her Plane Capt when she was training at Kingsville Tx. She was highly motivated and always in good spirits. She followed all instructions and never rushed. I was torn up when I heard of what happened. She always told me she wanted Tomcats and she worked hard to earn it. RIP Kara

@phantomwalker8251

3 жыл бұрын

were these instructions in place at the time. ?..i have zero flying experience, but,it make perfect sense if an engine is out,,you need rudder to counter effect. obviously you dont have simulators,or films on subject. how to avoid crashes. its a bad situation. but. all bad situations should be gone thru. seems the prat whitney engine,not good at low speed. slow on thrust,volume.?.like a car with cam,no good below 3k. do you have training flying with 1 engine.

@keithschill6252

3 жыл бұрын

@@phantomwalker8251 it’s easy to try the situation in a simulator because you know what’s going to happen. When this suddenly happens , she only had a second or to react. Caught her completely off guard. She did what she could.

@clarkmorris3312

3 жыл бұрын

@@keithschill6252 The Navy should have given her this very scenario as a part of her routine ongoing training syllabus...Should give all Pilots a chance to practice this so that WHEN it happens... they have seen it and done it before. This is why we spend the time and money to build simulators.

@rnzoli

3 жыл бұрын

@@clarkmorris3312expensive simulators are not enough, we also need really scenarios for the simulator sessions. For the civilian airline transpont-grade sims, the scenarios are often just going through the checklists for various emergencies, and then get out to make room for another crew. The lack of interest or time for making sim practice challenging lead to anomalies, where the crews always practiced critical engine failures, but when the other engine failed, they cut off fuel flow to their remaining good engine, because that's what they practiced in the sim, over and over again. Trim runaways simulations aren't the same since the Boeing 737 MAX crashes either, they were too easy and routine, compared to real life failure mode. Astronauts do it well, they spend a lot more in the sim (well, they have much less vehicles to fly also).

@inconnu4961

3 жыл бұрын

@@bmw_m4255 Thats not funny, sir! How is Elvis doing? What has he been up to all these years?

Flew with dad privately many times. Had 2 situations come up over the years with wind shear on landings.. watching him work it, and as fast as he did all that left me in awe. He was a navy aviator in his day

@Farweasel

Жыл бұрын

Windshear is bloody terrible & unpredictable someplaces. On the brightside - You have now learned from the best how to deal with it 😬

@endokrin7897

3 ай бұрын

Thank you for your service.

Great video sir. I'm a retired RMCM '77. I am the father-in-law of a great Tomcat/Hornet driver (Rhino) who left us much too soon at age 57 due to cancer. I made the last westpac cruise on the old 27-Charlie carrier Hancock in '75 when we evacuated Cambodia and Saigon. It was a pitch dark night - no moon. I remember well the loss of the two Marine pilots flying plane guard duty as the big HM-53's were circling and off loading refugees. All I could see was their running lights. I was on the signal bridge with WO Ramsey when I saw their aircraft drop out of the circular formation and head toward the water at about a 45 degree angle. I said to Ramsey, "They are going down!" Then the bright flash. The two crewmen were thrown clear out the rear open hatch. Both had severe injuries but survived. I sent out the message stating, "Pilot space disorientation as the cause." After the evacuation ops we brought back aboard our fixed wing aircraft and did normal carrier ops with our A-4's and other aircraft. I was in the radio shack listening to the UHF flt ops radio when LTJG Bruce Carrier was lost. I shall never forget the long and valiant attempt by flt ops and our skipper, Capt. F. G. Fellowes to get LTJG Carrier back on board safely. It is a long story starting with the A-4 only able to lower one of its landing gear. The later loss of his refueling nozzle, ejection seat failure and eventually ordered to fly inverted level with no canopy and manually drop out of the aircraft. He went into a spiral dive the first attempt but regained control and went back up to about 10,000 feet and tried again. He again went into a spiral dive and crashed. The Golden Wrench Award was subsequently given in his honor. Lt CDR "Bug' Roach and I became great friends during that cruise along with ABCM Trueluck. We had a long talk about that loss. For example, a barrier arrested landing was disallowed by NATOPS because LTJG Carrier could not get his air speed down low enough. We tried several barrier landings and because of the one wheel down and the one wheel up the little A-4 became very unstable below about 160 kts. Trueluck said the barrier could have handled him at the higher speed but it would have violated the NATOPS Manual. But we will never know. As you probably know, we lost CDR John 'Bug' Roach in 1991 while flying his beloved A-4 off San Diego in 1991. Regarding the loss of Lt Kara Hultgreen; I was on the vanguard of bringing women aboard ship when I was a Senior Chief at FltTraGrp SDiego in the early 1970's. My 'ladies' and I were stopped at the quarter deck many times by the OOD who disallowed our boarding request. After reviewing their message traffic they found the message from higher authority allowing women to board. So I am aware of male sailors not being comfortable serving along side female sailors. I sincerely salute Officer Kara Hultgreen especially for her courage to carry out her duties under obvious stressful circumstances. May she rest in peace. We have the watch.

@brianfoster7064

2 ай бұрын

I was ship's company USS Ranger CV-61 85-88. I watched as the deck app apes set up for a night-time barricade recovery of Atlas' A6 with Bug talking him in. Everyone did their jobs as best they could. That A6 was a bit torn up when I saw it the next day in the hangerbay. I saw an EA-6B lose power on approach and all hands eject. They all survived, though I believe there were a few broken bones.

Physics is unforgiving, I'm afraid, and the split second decision making required to fly these beasts is way beyond what is normally required of a human. In awe, I salute all of you.

@AllegedlyElPresidente.

Жыл бұрын

💯% spot on

Nobody should be upset by recording history accurately, especially if it can prevent mishaps in the future. Well done.

@lost4468yt

3 жыл бұрын

The reason it's a touchy subject is because at the time many people and political organisations used it to bolster their personal politics, using it to push the idea that women shouldn't be pilots in the military, that women couldn't do the job, etc etc. They disgustingly used her death to push their own political agenda. Whereas what should have happened was they should have used it to rail against the military competing to try and get the first women in, and trying to play PR by letting in women that were underqualified. The reality is when you suddenly open up something like that to women it's going to take a while until there are enough women applying to statistically find some who are good enough. It takes a while because nearly all women who were around at that time would not have had it open to them when they were younger and/or kids. And the people who are really good are the ones who have not only wanted to do it all their life, but have known it would be possible so have put the work in. And of course that's how it played out, the women who actually grew up with a military pilot being an option were and are the ones who are brilliant at it and are qualified.

@jerseyshoredroneservices225

3 жыл бұрын

@@lost4468yt Yeah unfortunately it's nothing new for a tragedy to be politicized. Ideally people in the military wouldn't act like politicians but many of them do and some even retired to become politicians...

@nottoday.9503

3 жыл бұрын

It's to be expected when you're trying to be woke just for wokeness' sake. Look at the current Russian military recruitment ads vs. those of the US military. One is trying to recruit men who are good at killing people and blowing shit up. The other is trying to recruit people who can explain microaggressions and critical race theory to the enemy.

@joshgh8844

3 жыл бұрын

@@nottoday.9503 - Funny, but truthful!

@WhatnotChaser

3 жыл бұрын

@@lost4468yt she had no business flying that aircraft not because she was a woman but because she wasn’t good enough.

Just saw this. I’m a retired Navy pilot and was flying during this time. Subsequently became a RAG skipper then operational CO. Very objective analysis, reasoning, and presentation of lessons learned. I second the fact that physics doesn’t care who you are. Great take-always and lessons learned. Hyjack, out….

@jaygallamore562

11 ай бұрын

@@danjarvis6980 “Replacement Air Group” I believe was the term, it’s what the Navy used to call the training squadron for a particular type/series/model aircraft.

Mooch, as a civilian aviator it's my opinion that you honor Revlon's family by having the discussion we just had. All aviation accidents, incidents, and/or mishaps are never because of any 1 reason. A chain of events are always cause the error, injury, and unfortunately fatalities. In the civilian world, we always said the same thing: FAA regulations, or colloquially known as "The Regs" have been written in blood. It's a fact of flying. It's the inherent dangerous nature of a human being operating a human engineered and human built machine, airborne. Well done on your episode. I think you served Lt. Hultgreen and her reputation well.

Firefighters have a similar saying: Every rule is there because somebody died.

@zhuzzir

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, that striked me hard n deep (no pun intended)! RiP to the forefathers for whom these life saving rules r here for... 🌹

@daveblevins3322

2 жыл бұрын

The same has been said regarding FAA rules and regulations. The FARS is a History Book of things that are hazardous to your health and equipment. 👍

@UncleRayRayGarageEmporium

2 жыл бұрын

Fire medic here: Very little of what we learn in the academy is because of scientific prediction. There are definitely obvious actions or avoidances due to accepted science, but that can confuse someone in a high stress class. The best way to get it to sink in is... "This is written in blood, kiddo." That curs through a lot of second guessing by students. In boot camp, we had to carry our milk carton at the chow hall with 2 hands, one above and one below the milk. We all wondered what the big deal was. Just another stupid rule to follow if you wanted to avoid push-ups and an ass chewing. Nope. At the grenade range, we carried live grenades like that milk carton. The instructor said it once, we understood, we complied. A recruit dropped a grenade in the past, and killed a few Devil Pups. Never again.

@AnimeSunglasses

2 жыл бұрын

So do most engineers...

@Devourer221

2 жыл бұрын

Rules written in blood

I’ll never forget what a wise old instructor once told me in the box a long time ago. He said there’s seldom a time in an airplane that dictates you must rush when faced with an abnormal or emergency situation so he gave me this one line which stuck to this day. He said: when the big loud bang happens…… take a deep breath, relax and enjoy your emergency.

I watched this twice, the second time to pick up on your fair play speech style and pattern. factual, non judgmental, integrity, compassion, and honesty come to mind. qualities I admire and do not embody frequently enough. this is a acquired muscle memory of a quality instructor, coach and human being.

I love simulators. From all the learning I did in 38 yrs of drawing a paycheck, the simulators led the way in prepared me for my one real emergency. Nice post. RIP.

Army Aviation saying is “checklists are written in blood” good story and analysis.

@edwardrichardson5567

2 жыл бұрын

That is a saying in all corners of Aviation not just the Military. Airlines has same saying as well.

@chrisperrien7055

2 жыл бұрын

Operator's Manuals are all written the same way.

@Edgy01

2 жыл бұрын

The important take away-we learn from our mistakes, so we don’t do it again. Otherwise-no excuse!

@dmeemd7787

2 жыл бұрын

If the same in drag racing and pretty much anything unfortunately, quite unfortunately I should say

@krashd

2 ай бұрын

@@edwardrichardson5567 It is a saying in everything, aviation, industry, marine, it's more of common sense than a saying.

Jim Powell here. I was an AQ attached to VF154 Black Knights during the Vietnam war. We flew F4 J’s during my time. I really appreciate how you described this unfortunate happening. I have seen many, many recoveries during my time in the Navy. I witnessed an A4 go in immediately after launch. In that case the pilot did not survive. It was about 2100 hours, the flight deck went into immediate recovery mode. Many on the flight deck were throwing there coned flashlights at the sinking plane and the chute of the pilot. The pilot was recovered attached to his chute, however, he did not survive. There is an empty feeling when that happens. It matters not what squadron you are from. As an AQ, my job was to give the crew a radar system that was in good working order, in case they needed it if enemy bogies would appear. That was a sad day for me. It happened over 50 years ago and I can still see that incident in my mind.

@jbman413

Жыл бұрын

I agree it does not matter when we lose someone in community from another squadron especially if you are from the same base. It never goes away. Hopefully we remember them for good. They all put their lives on the line.

@lav3crewman

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your service sir, I am retired RNZAF ground crew. Appreciate you sharing that.

@sl3966

Жыл бұрын

I was in VF-154 in Atsugi Japan after they went to F-14A's. Thanks for your service and your story, and for pioneering the squadron I was proud to serve. BKR!

@ryand141

9 ай бұрын

How did he not survive?

@danlambert1061

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for a very objective analysis of this mishap. You're absolutely correct that competence and ability MUST come ahead of ANY OTHER considerations in flight ops. I flew F-4 s in '72,well before women were introduced, and remember these words of wisdom from one of my mentors" Airplanes and the laws of physics are heartless and absolutely unforgiving of those who don't understand or worse ignore them." I want to fly with those who have competence and skill, and I don't care about their gender. The bar should set as high as possible so that the fewest possible die.

I'm enlisted aircrew in the Air Force. I appreciate the maturity and professionalism you brought to all the aspects of this topic. I wish more leaders in and out of the military could handle such subjects as well as you did. We need to always demistify mishaps.

Marine helicopter pilot here. I wasn’t good enough for jets. I’m 66 and was good enough at my skills to survive everything. God bless all Naval Aviators😊

@Sniperboy5551

Жыл бұрын

I’ve heard that flying a heli is even harder than flying a jet.

@michaelsumners1977

11 ай бұрын

Where do USMC helicopter pilots go to flight school? I know that Army guys go to Rucker (I'm from Alabama, so that's always been a neat thing here.) My dad was in an artillery unit with the USMC-Reserves and the stories he used to tell me were crazy. I'm sure you can relate. Can you tell us what helicopter you flew? A little off-topic, but... my dad got me some "Red Dog" beer signs when I went off to college at Auburn around 1995, and almost 30 years later, I don't really have room for that stuff anymore. I saw something about the "Red Dogs" squadron of HMLA-773 and their squadron logo is identical to the neon sign and other stuff that I have. Because they are USMC Reservists like my dad was (he's no longer with us), I thought it would be a great tribute to donate the stuff to the squadron, and I'm sure they would love to have it. I've tried to find contact info for the unit and squadron, but it's confusing because they seem to have multiple locations. I don't have any idea how to go about getting these things to them, or if that might possibly even be against some rule somewhere. Do you happen to know anybody that could point me in the right direction about this? (sorry for the long post🤭😀)

@tidepride86

7 ай бұрын

​@@michaelsumners1977 What part of Alabama?

@michaelsumners1977

7 ай бұрын

@@tidepride86 Birmingham

@tidepride86

7 ай бұрын

@@michaelsumners1977 i gotcha. I'm down in Mobile.

Ward, I got here while researching info about battleship broadsides. Don't know how but glad I did. I went from F-4Js then flew F-14As from 1973-1981, RAG instructor, LSO and Cag LSO. Absolutely best description and analysis of that mishap I have ever heard. Very sad whenever one of our fellow aviators are lost. As the old sign says, "aviation is not inherently dangerous, but it is very unforgiving."

That was one of the most fair, level headed, passionate coverage of a tragic loss but what it takes for the bad situation NOT to become tragic. Thank you so much for that coverage. (I say coverage because it did....cover....and was NOT mere content) I say this with tears in my eyes. It's a very good tear.

@stephenwilliams282

Жыл бұрын

Would an approach at higher airspeed and distance from ship to level wings defeat compressor stall.??? Forgive me if silly comment...I am a prop guy....

I served on the enterprise 98-00 as a AO, desert fox- kosovo and I love this channel, thank you it brings back those awesome memories serving on a carrier. Also I remember women pilots on board and even integrated into the Aos, awesomeness. Please keep it going, love it!!!!! Much love, daydreams, and smiles.

@16:30 is the sum of this entire story regarding the facts. The solution to this known aircraft situation was established and trained for. The problem lies with whether the student learned those lessons.

Ward, I lost my right engine off the cat on the Connie. The thing that kept me out of the water was AOA below 14 units and no lateral stick. Had full opp rudder and still went off like a frisbi ( full zone 5)One thing I did and was prepared for was accepting a settle without yanking back on the pole. Cheers.

@kevinoshea9125

9 ай бұрын

Accepting a settle? Thx

@larrymarcum1673

8 ай бұрын

I’m thinking “settle” meaning the plane squatted down a bit before it started to climb. Most peeps would increase aoa to gain altitude. That’s just my guess.

@igclapp

8 ай бұрын

@@larrymarcum1673 Sounds about right.

@Steven9675

5 ай бұрын

John, so you used the procedures and it works…. If you get the rudder over soon enough…. Good job. When you went over the film, how long did you have? swb

This was one of the first hard lessons I learned while flying. I held a stall deeper than I was supposed to, and as a wing dropped, I corrected with stick only. Before I knew what was happening I was entering a spin and my instructor had to take over. If had done that on final, I would have been dead.

@jumpleadsx2

2 жыл бұрын

Is this something that all jet pilots get to experience during training?

@x808drifter

2 жыл бұрын

@@jumpleadsx2 All pilots period. Stall and spin training is a big part of getting even a basic private pilots license.

@Bart-dg6qv

2 жыл бұрын

@@x808drifter In a deep sleep you can hear - rudder first, then stick...

@touristguy87

Жыл бұрын

...it's just sad to hear a supposedly trained pilot say this. apparently "training" means "I was in the room when it was discussed by our instructor".

@meatisomalley

Жыл бұрын

@@touristguy87 ?

Ward Carroll, for a simple monologue video it's obvious you still have a whole lot of wisdom to dispense. You flew the F14 for 17 years, and it is obvious why the Navy trusted your skill and experience for so long. You still have a lot of knowledge to give, not just about naval aviation but about life in general. Your videos are very good.

Ray Morrison I was a LSO spotter on CVA-64 from 1966 to 1968, Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club. Very well described and good description of Kara Hultgren's F-14 Tomcat Mishap. Witnessed 16+ accidents while on the Connie. Was out their for the Oriskany and Forrestal fires. I've loved watches lots of your video's, Thankyou . . . .

That video sent chills down my spine. It was like watching an exact rerun from more than 60 years ago when I watched an FJ-4B coming in too low; it followed that exact same trajectory into the ocean. Unfortunately, there were no zero zero ejection seats in those days. Not all flight deck level crashes ended disastrously though. I did watch as an F8U, coming in too low, sheared off its landing gear at the ramp. He scraped along the deck with fire shooting out from under, then, just at the right time, where the angle deck stopped, he hit afterburner where he was able to climb to sufficient elevation to eject. On ejecting, his chute opened, and he was able to parachute safety into the drink along side the ship.

@joebonomono5078

Жыл бұрын

That's one hell of an F'd up ride, but nicely done hitting the afterburner and being able to climb and eject. That pilot never quit thinking it out and it saved their life.

@georgeschulstad7626

Жыл бұрын

@@joebonomono5078 o

@georgeschulstad7626

Жыл бұрын

Cathy Johnson!!!! Hello !! From " Sky King ". !!!!

@markaustin650

Жыл бұрын

. Looking poo

@RidleyMMA

10 ай бұрын

Holy shit!

Kara was a pilot in my squadron, VF-213 after I left my F-14 pilot assignment there. I never met her, but I did speak with some crew members that flew with her at the VF-124 "RAG" (training squadron at NAS Miramar). She had a lot of training problems there and probably shouldn't have been pushed through the program like she was. This buddy of mine was a RIO RAG instructor at VF-124 and he flew with Kara quite a few times, so his assessment was from his own experience and perhaps bias. We may never know. She had a tendency to overshoot the wake and stuff rudder in to make the turn. This could have caused the compressor stall. Even so, it's not a big deal as the F-14 at landing weights coming onto the ship should easily be able to recover with a single engine "go around". Not sure what all the circumstances were, but I can tell you that making her look bad wasn't going to happen for political reasons. Just saying.....

@beechbonanza3895

3 жыл бұрын

I can verify what the RIO RAG instructor said about her rudder usage. There are no ailerons on a tomcat. It’s differential stabs and spoilers, and the stick forces are HEAVY. When I heard they were considering adding women to carrier aviation, my first thought was send them to the F-18, and if they do decide to send them to the tomcat, they better be big and strong. They chose poorly. A male pilot with that trend would have never have been allowed near the boat.

@Cokie907

3 жыл бұрын

Wow, we're both on the same wavelength. I asked Ward a day or two ago if FDR data could show use of rudder during that turn to final. Critical time to go uncoordinated with everything hanging out at low altitude.

@beechbonanza3895

3 жыл бұрын

@@Cokie907 Watch the video. Pratts smoke (ask any LSO that waved a B or a D for the first time - they thought it was a dual flame-out until they understood the new engines were smokeless). Big overshoot, no bank correction, just a boot-full of rudder. The Pratt TF-30s need symmetrical airflow or all bets are off. Seconds after the overshoot, no smoke from the port (left) engine. She was warned, debriefed, and still allowed to go to the boat, ignoring the reprimands for poor (fatal) airmanship.

@Cokie907

3 жыл бұрын

@@beechbonanza3895 So the conclusion of many is that an uncoordinated turn due to skidding the bird around with left rudder is what caused the left engine to have a compressor stall. Is that accurate? I doubt the official USN finding would state that. They would probably blame the engine manufacturer or wind shear I'm guessing.

@beechbonanza3895

3 жыл бұрын

@@Cokie907 Guaranteed. And then not flying the airplane thereafter - with plenty of thrust vs. weight to make a successful go-around.

First time viewer. Retired Air Traffic Controller (10 yr USAF; 24 yr FAA). I appreciate accurate and clearly expressed aviation-related content. Now a subscriber.

My dad was a Rio on F-4s and F-14s and CO of the Diamondbacks. We Talked about this a while back and he felt bad for her family because he felt she was pushed through and if she was assigned a different plane, she likely would have had an outstanding career.

@Steven9675

5 ай бұрын

I pray she did it on her own with performance. I like to think that she did have an outstanding career.

@Keifsanderson

5 ай бұрын

​@@Steven9675The facts are that political considerations weighed on her short career. Was it a direct factor in hee mishap? Hard to say. Buy I can say that when factors beyond performance enter the equation, the product must be less that it would be otherwise.

@dcole7092

3 ай бұрын

True not only in Aviation but other combat and special ops career fields.

@influentialgurning

3 ай бұрын

Has the Air Force now stopped using this type of plane because it was unusable?

@maxpuckerfactor

Ай бұрын

@@influentialgurning USAF never used the F-14, their budget buster in the 70's was the F-15. BTW - the USAF is still using F-15E and now playing with an F-15-X

I was on deck when this happened and remember it all of the time.

@daddystabz

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your service. Can you give us any stories about it? What was the reaction of the people onboard?

@davecruz7833

2 жыл бұрын

Well there you are! #AT1 #NASLemooreAIMD #650. Good to see you Rob.

@robertkennerly7443

2 жыл бұрын

@@daddystabz Good evening Jonathan ....please allow me to introduce myself to you ...I am Robert Kennerly formerly known as AT1(AW) Robert R Kennerly ...USN retired. The reaction of the crew was both sadness and shock ...along with other emotions. Since I was on deck working on one of the F/A-18's and saw the crash in person ...along with everyone else that was on deck ....I know firsthand how bad that crash would have been if she had attempted to land onboard ..... I have been on deck on other carriers when birds had crashed. The memorial service was fitting and as nice as possible under the circumstance ......it was held a couple of days later on the focsle. Every year on 25 October I toast to her out of respect and gratitude. Everything on the tape was true about the flying techniques and such ...but when it was all said and done ....please remember she was a nugget that was in one hell of a situation ....and had she tried to land ......we all could have been a casualty. From my point of view .....she was one hell of a lady, to say the least. Since I am not on social media on a regular basis ....my email is RobertKennerly@yahoo.com my number is 334-477-4263 I look forward to hearing from you Have a good night Rob

@daddystabz

2 жыл бұрын

@@robertkennerly7443 Thank you so much for your awesome reply. I appreciate you and the crew and all you did for your country. I have always been haunted by what happened to Kara and my heart is broken for her family, friends, and colleagues. She was a trailblazer and will always be remembered. She was in a very tough position and had a lot of pressure on her and in my mind she will live forever as a hero. I wanted to be a Naval Aviator after watching Top Gun the very first time at the theater as a young man. My father had served 26 1/2 years in the USAF and I also wanted to follow in his footsteps a bit. My life turned out very differently when he passed away in 1995 and I changed my plans to take care of my completely devastated mother. If I could only reset the years and pursue this dream. May callsign Revlon RIP.

@daddystabz

2 жыл бұрын

@@robertkennerly7443 Thank you so much! Stand by for an email soon!

In my 20 years in the Navy, I always hated "qual quotas" because they were, by definition, outcome-driven. When the normal attrition rate in training is, for the sake of argument, 50%, only the top half of the candidates will qualify. When the quote is higher than 50% of your trainees in the pipeline, you can see how some candidates will qualify even when, statistically speaking, they would not objectively meet standards. I retired in 2002, so I'll imagine it's worse today.

@dougs2747

2 жыл бұрын

What you describe is promotion to Chief. Due to the needs of the Navy, people with my NEC had zero chance of making Chief. In my last 10 years in the Navy, not a single person with my NECs was promoted to E-7, because the Navy did not need us. We were dinosaurs. Yet, the guy next to me made Chief with a 70% promotion rate. Making Chief is a quota system.

@StephenZ827

Жыл бұрын

@@dougs2747 fear not...as one that built carriers, same holds for the construction. People promoted to supervisor or higher based on gender or skin color.

@jamalwilburn228

Жыл бұрын

It has always existed even without quotas. I've been in training where less qualified got more praise because they were liked by cadre. Just because there personalities better clicked.

Great Channel, I just subscribed. I'm an aviation enthusiast and son of a Vietnam Vet so I was raised with a healthy knowledge and interest in all things military. You really explain the intensely complex skills and knowledge that a pilot has to have to fly military aircraft.

Outstanding, professional presentation Ward. I flew FJ4B's, F9F-8's and A4's 1956-1964, watching your presentation actually increased my heart rate after all these years! After 68 years as an active pilot my four years of deployments on Ranger, Oriskany and Lexington, based out of NAS Miramar, plus three years as a RAG instructdor, were the high point of all my flying including 31 years of airline flying through the B 747's. Outstanding presentations, I enjoy them all. Keep it up, you are appreciated.

I met Kara a few months before her mishap at Carey Lohrenz’s wedding, which I stood up in. Carey’s husband (Marine Hornet guy) was my roommate in college and the best man at my wedding.

@diceguyg3799

2 жыл бұрын

She had no business flying the F14 in the first place....but PC and special agenda quota thinking thought otherwise to meet the delusions of such madness and this was the result.

@Brokkolesz

2 жыл бұрын

@@Tsamokie Well that's bullshit get the fuck outta here. There are tons of capable female pilots in both the helicopter and fighter world.

@Tsamokie

2 жыл бұрын

@@Brokkolesz How many have you met? How many have you flown with? HOw many would you fly with? What is your aviation experience?

@highlytenacious7608

2 жыл бұрын

@@Tsamokie did you no watch the video? Ward says multiple times that there are plenty of excellent female pilots. That mishap happened because the quotas forced faster integration than the skills would indicate, but again, with sufficient training and proper time and experience, women have proven to be highly qualified.

@markwilliams2620

2 жыл бұрын

@@highlytenacious7608 t sam subscribes to Steven Crowder, Mark Dice and Joe Rogan. In other words he listens to an ignorant rich-boy racist, a conspiracy-kook racist and the bastion of 13 year old intellectualism, "Powerful" JRE. Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with you their experience.

It was 1980. We were on Gonzo Station. It was a perfect morning for ops. I was in the waist bubble. I just got to the ship via a supplier USS MARS. I was getting a first hand look at flight ops, since I was assigned to the V2 dept. It happened exactly how this guy described it. They didn't even look for the guys. The Air Boss was screaming at everyone to get back to their stations. I'm 62 years old now and I'm not ashamed to admit it brought tears to my eyes. It happened so quick. That was the first of a few that I witnessed. Not always the Hollywood version. It's great that they study each incident so detailed to learn from it. Sometimes it's easy to play Monday morning QB though. Just my right to say. What I saw was the TOMCAT'S STARBOARD ENGINE FOD out. When it cleared the cat the aft section dropped down putting it into a full on stall attitude. It hesitated for just a couple seconds then rolled quick. The guys ejected at about the 4 O' CLOCK POSITION, With their rockets burning. To my knowledge, they were not recovered. Suddenly the Navy was more than just an adventure.

@jerrybandy3827

3 жыл бұрын

I got on board right after the ship got back to Pier 12. I never heard about the F-14 crash. Of course we all heard about the EA6B crash later on because it caused so much more damage.

@erickborling1302

3 жыл бұрын

FOD = Foreign Object Debris(?) That is, damage from inhaling something. More likely on takeoff than landing. Pilots dubble check your fuel caps! Compressor stall means the fan blades exceed the angle of attack, not the same thing as "it ingested something left on the runway." We understand that the problem of compressor stall is mostly a design issue, solved by things like variable inlet guide vanes, bleed air, and variable stator vanes. Did I get that right?

@californiadreaming9216

3 жыл бұрын

Aname thanks for sharing your story. Old saying... experience isn't the best teacher, it is the ONLY teacher.

@aname5455

3 жыл бұрын

@@jerrybandy3827 Well, I don't remember guys talking much about planes we lost at sea. We just didn't. I remember that one the most because it was the first one that I personally witnessed. I didn't even know the crew, but still it teared me up. We all assumed that it picked up something from the deck,or something in the engine broke. I get it. We were in a potential war zone but it just seemed heartless to just keep right on going. We did do a massive heel turn. That whole ship was shaking like a magnitude 8 earthquake was on us. All that I could see was the Tomcat perfectly upside down in the water and very slowly sinking like a plate in a sink. The good Ole "NUMB NUTS".

@aname5455

3 жыл бұрын

@@erickborling1302 Yes sir. That is correct, as I know it to be. Thank you. The first incident he mentioned was referencing a take off, a Cat Shot as we called it. I just happened to be standing next to the "shooter" when the incident occurred. All of the shooters were Carrier Qual'd flyers as well. He immediately called for an end speed report from below deck. I was a good end speed. The tape was secured as evidence for the investigation, as routine protocol. Thank you.

Sir, I just found your channel. I set notifications to alert me to future podcasts. I can only echo many of the comments here - excellent, professional breakdown of the crash and background behind it. Thank you for your Service, Sir.

I was in the airwing and on the ship when this happened. I was in VF-114, VF-213s "sister squadron" a couple years before. I heard a lot of talk of her being pushed through and the ending was very unfortunate.

@baaamakingbaaaa

8 ай бұрын

A friend of mine does training with new hires for one of the big airlines. He said there are people being pushed through right now based on factors other than their ability. What you look like and your bedroom playtime preferences mean more than skill right now. He said if there was ever a time to be concerned about taking a commercial flight, now is the time and it's only getting worse.

@fast71bug2

8 ай бұрын

@baaamakingbaaaa I know there is a huge shortage of airline pilots, according to a buddy of mine who flies, so I'm sure they're pushing people through. How they choose who I don't know....

@alexdarcydestsimon3767

8 ай бұрын

​​@@fast71bug2if you're a male pilot applying you have likely less chances than a blondie with big smile and big boobs.

@baaamakingbaaaa

8 ай бұрын

@@fast71bug2 apparently they are not choosing based on skill or qualifications like they used to because that would be racist or homophobic. Why would they hire based on skill when they don't have to? The vacancies are filling up very fast now apparently . The shortage of pilots is coming to an end. Thank goodness!! As a frequent flyer I am excited that all the delays I've been experiencing due to the pilot shortage is coming to an abrupt end. They are filling those front 2 seats as fast as they can. I don't really care who they are as long as my plane takes off in time.

@abark

5 ай бұрын

Guess you might care when you plane with Indian spaghetti code piloted by diversity hires takes off on time and crashes.@@baaamakingbaaaa

Sir, thanks for the video. I'm a retired YNC(SW/AW) and one of my duty stations was at VT-25 in Beeville, TX. At that time, I was the operations yeoman and calculated/logged all the flight training books/flight logs. I was there when Kara was a student and got to know her professionally. She was a really wonderful person and so excited about her future as a pilot. Thanks for the great video. RIP Kara.

@rstel

3 жыл бұрын

Wow, I was a navy brat growing up in Beeville Tx. Graduated from AC Jones HS and went into the Navy. I was onboard the Abraham Lincoln and on watch in CDC when Lt Hultgreen crashed. We were alerted hearing the LSO and saw it on the PLAT.

In B-52s, I flew as an EW. The gunner and I had an agreement; if you go, I go; if I go, you go. We would get our stories straight later. There were five times we both thought about punching. Did not have to, but it was close. Good analysis.

@saucejohnson9862

3 жыл бұрын

Damn, I didn't even know the B-52 had parachutes. I thought you'd have to go down with the ship like C-130's.

@cpfs936

2 жыл бұрын

@@saucejohnson9862 Weird. I just watched a video on the B-52 about an hour ago. If I understand correctly, they could punch out of those either upward OR downward.

Sir, Thank you for an excellent and detailed recap of the mishap. I was serving with an A-6 squadron between 92 and 95, so I witnessed the Tailhook blowback in the aviation community and also saw the reaction to this mishap. In my first 1.5 years in aviation, I was on hand for 3 fatal aviation mishaps (my squadron and airwing). The first was a Hornet losing the horizon at night resulting in the death of a hornet CO (my non-aviator recollection of the cause) during workups in the Caribbean. The other was a ground-based navigation flight resulting in 2 of our guys crashing into a mountain - I think that was just pilot error. And the last one was an E-2 mishap shortly after launch from the carrier, resulting in 5 deaths. With the E-2, I helped the LSO with the review using the plat cam footage. I still remember to this day how upset the LSO was because he blamed himself for the mishap. All three of those mishaps happened with all-male squadrons and aviators. All were skilled (I assume) and did not receive any special waivers to fly (I assume). But nobody asked those questions, like they did of Lt. Hultgreen. There were no special 20/20 investigations. Guess what I am getting at - that mishap became a political powderkeg. But in the end, mishaps happens. Naval aviation is a dangerous business and one small mistake can cost you your life or the lives of your shipmates.

For those wondering (as I was) - the astronaut he's talking about is Susan Still Kilrain. She flew the F-14 in the 1990s and then two missions on the shuttle Columbia in 1997. She's currently a motivational speaker.

@thereisnosanctuary6184

Жыл бұрын

That name alone makes her a terrible person.

@Antyvas

Жыл бұрын

@@thereisnosanctuary6184 What if she lives in a van down by the river?

@fetB

Жыл бұрын

wait, where is he talking about astronauts?

@Antyvas

Жыл бұрын

@@fetB 17 minute mark

@damonjohns1689

Жыл бұрын

She needs to motivate the government to force females to fight in combat in EQUAL numbers as males in the front lines. I will motivate males not to fight for a country that values females and devalues males. Time for females to face the same horrors as males.

I distinctly remembered this tragic event.....ships company, IM4 division. Went up to the crows nest to observe flight ops as a way of getting some whoosa time from work. Unfortunately saw all this happen, and just couldn’t believe how it all was over so quickly. May she Rest In Peace 😕🙏🙏⚓️

@mummificationpls

3 жыл бұрын

In my former self as V-3 on the USS Ranger CV-61 the crows nest was so awesome to see even at night. It was the ballet of the seas. Our ship had a F-14 come in and rip out the number 3 wire, because it was set for an F-18. The Pilot and RIO lived. Then we had a A-6 intruder the tail hook broke on catching the number 2 wire. Turned the A-6 toward Cat 1 and 3 F-18 in the path. Pilot and Bombardier punched out one landed in front of the island and was almost dragged off the ship until the one who directs the plane to cut off power when they successfully land saw it come toward him so he ran towards the front of the island and saw the ejection and whomever it was overhead. He then jumped on the parachute to save his life. The other one landed in his seat on the deck. Both survived. The plane hit the first F-18, pushed it into the second F-18, then spun around and hit the 3rd F-18 and then it hit the catwalk and took out 6 45 man life preservers. This was my first underway time I was new into the US Navy. I found out the meaning Danger Ranger just then. Both happened during the day on Carrier Quals, I was in the hanger bay.

@nperry77

3 жыл бұрын

I was in the shower by the forward mess decks.

@mummificationpls

3 жыл бұрын

@@nperry77 wow small world.

@jpbates591

3 жыл бұрын

I was in the MARDET watching the Plat.

@daveflower6702

3 жыл бұрын

I was on the USS Chancellorsville CG-62 behind the Abraham Lincoln when that happened. Sad day for all.

Ward, I appreciate the video. You barely touched on the politics at the time for big brass Navy to insist two female pilots were in each squadron for that cruise. Kara had more downs than any pilot in VF-124 and still managed to "graduate" to a fleet squadron. That was really the issue. With a tour flying the A-6 at Key West, she should have been able to fly the F-14 competently at the boat. Passing her on to the fleet F-14 squadron is what got her killed.

@AlpineWarren

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed - She had the longest string of red rides I had ever seen from anyone and should not have been moved on.

@idcniles

2 жыл бұрын

@@AlpineWarren yikes. That information is not normally brought out.

@scottgibson6735

2 жыл бұрын

So,it’s fair to say what I’ve always said”Kara Hultgreen was sacrificed,on the altar of political correctness”I am a strong believer in equal rights.But along with it,there has to be equal responsibility,sand accountability. Thank you for the video

@joer8854

2 жыл бұрын

@@scottgibson6735 More likely she was sacrificed on the alter of wanting to prove women shouldn't be in the military regardless of it being right or wrong. It's likely they passed her to use her as an example to say women shouldn't be in the military.

@lucasng4712

2 жыл бұрын

@@scottgibson6735 no

Mooch, I'm commenting on the first F14 mishap that you described with subsequent NATOPS procedures. I was driving an A6E located right behind the JBD when my friend Jack (Last name will be omitted for privacy) lost control of his F14. Just as the F14 went down the stroke, #2 had a burner can blow out. The rest happened exactly as you described. Jack reefed the nose up departing the plane and it rolled rapidly to the right. The canopy came off about 90 degree's and because of the rapid roll rate, they ejected straight down into the water. There was a great splash in front of the ship (USS Nimitz) and we rolled right over them. The JBD went down and they were directing me onto the CAT. My knee's were shaking. I was a nugget and pretty shaken up. I said to my B/N, "Aren't they going to stop flight ops? What about search and rescue?" My Beener replied "Shit happens. You are in the big leagues now. Concentrate on your job." Little did I know, this was one of many friends of mine who would buy the farm over the next few years. As you know, we have survived a tough business. In regards to Lt Kara Hultgreen mishap. It's late and I didn't watch your entire video. I'm a former LSO and, if I remember right, the controlling LSO's frantically were waving her off. She did not respond to any of their calls. I am a former GA, military and Part 121 instructor and on occasion, I have seen this type of reaction / behavior. It's usually caused by someone who is totally overwhelmed by the circumstances. They are so absorbed by the situation they literally do not hear or see anything going on around them. On a couple of occasions, I had a crew member (B/N and a B737 co-pilot) totally zone out during an emergency situation. They were in a paralyzed comatose state. It was really freaky to witness.

Your exploration of timely topics is always on point and well and balanced. You are among the very best on the web.thank you from a former army ground pounder and key hole peeper.

You are incredibly articulate and I learned a lot from watching this. Excellent!

I was on board the 72 when this happened. A very sad day at sea for us all that day. We were glad to hear at least one of them made it home.

Thank you for your service sir ! I’m certain you enjoyed the job that I would love to have had, flying the Tomcat for so many years. Thanks for the excellent description of her mishap. First time visiting your channel and new subscriber.

Great video and thanks for sharing this mishap in such professional detail.

"Every outcome has a chain of events that explains how some things happened." This is true for every incident involving a plane. It is a chain of events. It starts before the plane begins its takeoff. As an accident investigator for 25 years of working for the civil side of things via the NTSB, this has been true for every accident, incident, or crash, I have investigated. Usually, one thing affects another, which affects another, etc., etc...

@jbman413

Жыл бұрын

I sorta of followed this stuff for 4+ decades. My last day in boot camp 25sep78 in the morning a buddy and I were posting up to the fan tail of the USS Never Sail. When I performed the boot camp sin of looking up. I saw the white puff of smoke at the wing root and watch the aircraft roll to a crash landing. I departe next day bought the paper at the airport. I was absolutely impressed by the crash landing. The Pilates put that bird down on the center line of a suburban street. Houses on both side of street were lost, but the ones behind them were not. PSA felt 182 135 souls? Felt the same way on the crash recovery at Cecil Field walking the grooves in the runway VP-50. The pilot saved the aircraft and crew. BZ to all who instinctively do the right thing.

@jbman413

Жыл бұрын

After the puff of smoke I saw it burst into flame...

@jbman413

Жыл бұрын

Pilots dang spell checker!

@dlc710

Жыл бұрын

True of almost every incident involving a plane. Malaysia Airlines MH370 and China Eastern Airlines MU5735 flights seem to be missing a final write-up. Been waiting for 9+ and 1+ years for the final reports.

Listening to you makes me feel like I'm in college again being instructed by someone who really knows what they are talking about. Mostly over my head, but I do feel smarter.

Excellent presentation- this reasserts what is known about training- you train until you dont have to think about it, you just do it. Always horrible to lose an aviator,hopefully this assisted in training others at the time.

Thank you for analyzing this incident so professionally and objectively, there are definitely some hard lessons that can be learned from this incident. It was interesting to get a look into the F-14 and it's procedures and humbling to remember that even highly trained pilots make mistakes. Also I may have clicked due to the footage of the 2010 CF-18 Demo Team crash in my home town Lethbridge Alberta when Capt. Brian Bews experienced a stuck piston causing his right engine to idle as he initiated a high alpha pass for an airshow.

Thx Ward ! You remind me of all the hours I spent watching recovery of Tomcats while in all weather conditions at night aboard USS Ranger. I was constantly amazed at Cats hitting precisely on the wire for a purrfect arrest. When we had pea soup for night recovery's one night , I watched the flights as usual from the observation deck & glad I did not have a weak bladder .......... Pilots constantly made me stare in awe at the precision while unable to see much thru the pea soup . Last time I watched in the soup & all had come home safely , I went through Officers Country pretending I was going to check on my radars But I made sure I thanked the pilots I saw that were whiter in the face than my best bedsheets . Last one I saw quit looking dead in the eyes after I thanked him for an excellent recovery ......... he never said a thing 'cept his eye's came alive again & that said enough for me ...... I still don't know how Seals & Pilots stay so silent moving , when they have those Big Brass Ones ........ why don't they Clank ? ?

@timmoore6055

2 жыл бұрын

From my experience with Seals, they are not Brass - they are Titanium.

I remember this mishap. I was stationed in San Diego at the time at Point Loma. While I did hear a lot of comments about her flying the Tomcat, what I didn't hear was that she crashed because she was a woman. What I most remember was several senior officers commenting that the Navy was pushing too fast for the integration of female fighter pilots and that mishaps like this happen when a program is pushed too hard and too fast. Even before the investigations results came out there people saying that it wouldn't have happened if they'd given her more time. Time to learn the aircraft and the procedures. Thank you Ward for your completely factual explanation and leaving the politics out of it, as it should be. I was lucky enough during my service to never have been involved in a mishap, though I met a few who had. Hearing from them, and what they'd gone through after the fact, was a very pointed lesson.

@WorldTravelA320

2 жыл бұрын

She and Lohrenz ( the other female aviator who was picked by the Navy out of a hat) were given more time than their male counterparts, and even more chances. Both were sub-par, and Lohrenz was especially proud of being "the bottom of the top" even going on record about it, and then when she got pulled from flight duty, she cried it was "the good ol boys club" instead of her LACK of skill.

@russkydeutsch

2 жыл бұрын

@@WorldTravelA320 liberals are destroying our country in so many ways. Liberalism is a cancer, along with progressivism. There's nothing discriminatory about this. You can either safely fly, or you cannot. Unfortunately liberals caused Hultgreen's death, and coward military leaders didn't stand up against liberal progressivism so they could get that next rank.

@eschelar

2 жыл бұрын

Right. She didn't die because she as an individual was a woman, but because the ideology of feminism became more important than actual pilot competence. She wasn't incompetent because she was a woman, she was incompetent because she wasn't a very good pilot as an individual. She died because she was put into a situation that was more than she as an individual pilot could handle. Because of feminism ideology being implemented over merit. When feminism kills.

@chrishusing227

2 жыл бұрын

I was a US Air Force historian around the time of this tragic incident. My boss told me that on the Air Force side there was a feeling that the Navy had been pressured by the Clinton administration to rapidly integrate female pilots into combat roles.

@duane356

2 жыл бұрын

@@WorldTravelA320 It goes back further. I've seen a few articles mention Amelia Earhart's serious lack of ability. Of course, what mattered to the press and sponsors, was that she was breaking 'boundaries'.

Former army helo pilot here, yellow flight, fort rucker, al, 1987, also a civilian fixed-wing, muli-engine, instrument instructor. I'm so sorry for Kara's loss of life and my condolences to her family and friends. Thank you for this excellent debrief sir. I agree that aerodynamics doesn't care who's at the controls.

1st time viewer. Loved it. Fascinating. Could watch and listen and learn all day. Thank you.

@ 16:45 "If you don't LEARN from THAT mishap, you're likely to REPEAT the mistake again..." Goes for all of us -- and in every facet of our life/lives.

as a former Air Force Instructor Pilot in multiple aircraft, I find Ward's knowledge impeccable.

Those pre-digital fly-by-wire days were so difficult. You could do what your reflexes told you to do, and still get an adverse result. So much respect for the pilots of that era. Question: Did the pilots of that day have as much simulator time practicing engine out emergencies as today? It also makes me so amazed that today's flight control systems can move the control surfaces in such a way as to counteract all the adverse yaws and pitches and oscillations throughout the entire envelope of the aircraft. What a programming nightmare. No wonder the refinement of the flight control software takes so long. And then you get those stupid news stories when your version A flight controls aren't as good as a legacy fighter on Block 60. So sad that we have lost so many crews doing the dangerous job of flying high performance aircraft.

I was an Air Force IP and safety investigator and it is very unfair to have a simulation where the team knows exactly what is coming vs a real life instantaneous failure with fractions of seconds to respond correctly. Bold face is a huge help, but if the worst case situation occurs at the worst moment, we all learn we are mere humans.

@youtubeaccount9058

5 ай бұрын

Once the flameout occurred it was dire. But didn't she cause the flameout by trying to save a bad approach with too much rudder?

@operator8014

5 ай бұрын

I'd love to see how many top pilots can save that situation in a simulator when they don't know it's coming. Just have them do touch-and-go landings for 6 hours with no faults then throw this in there and see how many can save it. I assume it's somewhere around 75% of the top F15 aviators can save it 50% of the time.

@uwillnevahno6837

5 ай бұрын

So is the root cause The Navy didn't train her to the muscle memory standard, she didn't learn it or she didn't have enough flight hours in a learning scenario beforehand?

@dimakhidarkovskiy2175

4 ай бұрын

@@operator8014but navy don fly f15, Air Force does, landing aircraft on the moving carrier is a “ bit” different then just on stable surfaces of airport

I served as a Naval Aircrewman as an Inflight Ordnanceman on board P-3C Orions from 1990-1995. After basic training, my first school was Aircrewman Candidate School in Pensacola. That's when I got my first taste of "all is not equal". The O-course has the time requirements based on age and gender (of course I'm referencing how the women get to go slower then a man to pass). Also, I had to negotiate an 8 foot wall (with no rope), for the women, they got to negotiate a 5 foot wall (with no rope). I had to also get over a 12 foot wall w/ a rope. Women got to run up to it, touch the wall, then run around it. Huh? What? How is that fair? Then once I arrived to my squadron in Brunswick, ME myself & two friends that I went through all my schools with quickly realized that the female AO's were almost worthless. Every sentence started with "I can't". I can't hoist this 2000 lb mine, I can't push the bomb cart, I can't lift the tow bar, I can't torque this bomb rack, I can't un-torque this bomb rack, I can't undo this cannon plug, I can't lift this sonobuoy, etc. Yet, on their evals it would start with something like "Petty Officer Smith is a critical asset to workcenter 230. Without her expertise blah blah blah." One day we were at the hot spot loading AGM-84's & the females jobs were to prep the bomb racks, remove blank off plates, install the Harpoon wiring harnesses, etc. It was a complete cluster bumble. My pilot (as we stood at the nose of the aircraft facing the situation) turns to me and says (quote) "This is when I wish I had my video camera with me so I could film this and send it to our congressman." It was totally unsat and after just 5 years, I was over it. We got used to doing all of our jobs and then half of theirs.

@jackshittle

3 жыл бұрын

@@Jon-pl3hr I agree. Funny you mentioned the construction/flag holding thing. As a little kid when riding around with my grandfather (WW2 vet & retired as the Captain of the Detective Bureau in our town) would say to me (as we were waiting in traffic because of construction) "I bet you when we finally get a little further down the road you'll see the men working machinery, using shovels, etc. and there will be women holding the flag & directing traffic." Of course he would be right almost every time & he would get a kick out of that. He told me as well that when he came on the police force that there was a height requirement - but they ended up getting rid of it because of female applicants. The other thing with my job in the Navy (when I was flying, they still didn't have female pilots/NFO's or Aircrewman on the P-3C Orion platform - so that was good, standard crew on a P-3C is 12) is when I wasn't flying and had to hump bombs, rockets, missiles, mines, torpedos, nuclear depth bombs, etc. - that the females would never take part in the role of actually lifting the weapon (with hernia bars) or the manually cranked hoist. Watch videos on KZread of "Aviation Ordnanceman" loading weapons and you'll see they are involved, but with the super light duty stuff, like arming the weapon, doing a stray voltage test, stabilizing the weapon with their hands so that it doesn't teter totter on the way up to the bomb rack, reading the check list etc. The only time you'll see them on a hoist is if it is the gas operated one. Meaning you just pull a trigger like on a hedge trimmer and the cable will rise the weapon up to the rack. The manual hoist? Forget it. You'll see the guys doing all the moving, handling & struggling with the weapon & you'll see them behind the guys just watching but pretending that they are serving in some phase of the operation. BTW - I just saw the Army's new recruitment video. I'm sure the Chinese & Russians are shaking in their boots now.

@gerryaldridge6504

3 жыл бұрын

@@jackshittle ĺ

@humanbeing2420

3 жыл бұрын

@@Jon-pl3hr There is "protesting" and there is "violently breaking and entering the US capitol while calling for the execution of government officials." The first is still protected by the First Amendment. The second is not, and it should be punished accordingly. The reason Democrats and Republicans can't see eye to eye anymore is that the latter refuse to act and speak in accordance with objective reality.

@mikeblocker5720

3 жыл бұрын

@@humanbeing2420 Democrats and objective reality 😂. This must be a joke.

@humanbeing2420

3 жыл бұрын

@@mikeblocker5720 Objective reality: Biden won the 2020 election decisively; Republican claims of fraud were rejected in over 50 courts of law. Republican reality: Trump won the 2020 election in a landslide; Biden stole it through fraud committed in multiple states, and we have proof.

I remember when this happened while on active duty. I was an AG2 stationed in Kings Bay, GA. When the story aired a lot of us thought it was weather related. Usually when there’s flight mishaps investigators immediately called the WX office. We later learned the ‘truth’ so to say. But I’ve NEVER heard an in-depth analysis such as this; it clears up a lot of confusion. Well done❗️❗️❗️

@stanleybuchan4610

2 жыл бұрын

I'm ex RAF and we used to get a weather report after a mishap as it may have been weather related.

Informative and on point the whole way through, excellent report.

I flew with a former flight instructor of Ms Holtgren at NAS MERIDIAN MS. He said she was fine as a student. She was assigned a Utility Sqdrn, probably never over 30deg angle of bank, and several years later was spun up to fly the Tom in the fleet. That is a steep learning ENVIRONMENT. RIP.

Hi Ward, thank you for this vid and your channel. I'm a civilian and not even a pilot, but I have great reverence for what you and your fellow aviators in the Navy and elsewhere do for our country. Thank you! This was very informative and interesting. RIP Kara Hultgreen.

@WardCarroll

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, William.

Excellent video, Commander! I'm a B747 Captain and first time viewer. I am most impressed with your presentation and attention to detail. I was glued to my screen throughout this entire Vlog and explanation of tragic events. I just subscribed to your channel. Thank you for your service, Sir.

@user-kq8et4kw4b

Жыл бұрын

Thank you 👍 for watching and leaving a comment, Text the TELEGRAM to acknowledge your Prize.🏆🎁🎁🎁

Good Presentation. Ejection seats are scary until they are safed I was taught to carry a vice grip to use as part of the emergency safing procedure.

Retired Aviation FA18 Hornets for over 26 plus years. I was in the hangar where two men ejected themselves into the hangar bay. I was there when we had a mid air collision and the only man to land an FA18 hornet with no hydraulic systems and landed purely on IFR. These aircraft do not discriminate and they will pull crazy in a split second. They used to show us her crash video to demonstrate what not to do during aircraft carrier mishaps. Back then there was a deep push to get women trained. and also there was a deep push to get us put out..as in we did not belong..I remember being told I dont belong..but I never listened. We can all learn from mishaps..even the most seasoned experienced pilots can be put in situations that could make the aircraft unrecoverable. I will be the first to tell anyone this is not for everyone you have to be extremely passionate about doing it and wanting to fly these jets because the required training will take you beyond your limits. My first training jet an A7, then an F14 and then and FA18 I have 7 different platforms that I qualified on..it is unforgiving..you have to know the books you have to know the training and you do not get in that Jet unless you meet those requirements. Thank you so much for a great podcast on this and safety training and flight training. The Navy owes you my friend.

@willl7780

Жыл бұрын

do you believe we should have quotas are strictly merit based?

@TheSniperGTO

Жыл бұрын

Strictly merit based. That’s not how it’s done, for diversity and inclusion. But it should be. Imagine if professional basketball had quotas. So the Chicago Bulls hire a tall black, a short Mexican, an average height Navajo Indian, an average white guy, and a black woman who is transgender and prefers to be call Tedarius Lamar Jackson. Fine. What happens when they play the LA Lakers who only hire tall black dudes. How do you think that quota system looks when you are losing games 143 to 11.

@Andreas-gh6is

Жыл бұрын

@@TheSniperGTO The talk about "Merit Based" anything is bullshit and just shows you know nothing about discrimination. For one thing, the discriminated class really doesn't have it any easier, in fact, they have it harder to meet the "merits" in the first place, mostly because whatever existing system there is makes it harder for them. For another, there weren't all that many female pilots around at all, and picking from a smaller pool means lower average quality. The general attitude of "you don't belong here" doesn't help either. On the other hand, would female pilots ever have had a chance if the higher ups hadn't put pressure on the system? They had to prove themselves, and they did.

@TheSniperGTO

Жыл бұрын

@@Andreas-gh6is No. that’s a very leftist, democrat, dangerous ideology. Our military should be based strictly on merit, and who is best at that job. Not giving quotas to certain races and genders (of which there are only two by the way) to meet a requirement. Kind of like letting females into Ranger school and Special Forces. None of them really passed. They all had standards lowered to LET them pass. How does that make us safer? How does choosing someone less qualified for a job based strictly in their race, gender, religion or any other system make that position better than if the person best qualified for it? If that female pilot can meet all the standards, or exceed them, and it turns out that, ala Starship Troopers, females are much better pilots, then if all pilots are female based on their performance only, I’m fine with that. Excluding pilots, if any profession, especially the profession of arms, where your job is to locate, close with, and destroy the enemy, gives slots to less qualified people based in quotas, that’s wrong. If you were desperate for bread, and bread production was critical, and most of the bread makers where female dwarves, who for some reason, could bake 10 loaves an hour, would you hire a white guy who could only bake 7, just for diversity reasons? If so, you are crazy.

@hippylong

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your service... you rock!

enlisted marine corps veteran here. I did 3+ years as an supply admin in 1st MAW MAG12 Iwakuni, Japan. We supported all the F-18, harrier and prowler squadrons rotating in and through on deployment. The number of pilot deaths, mishaps and emergency landings I witnessed as a daily flight-line observer was more than enough to dissuade me from getting my privates pilots license. I've loved aviation my entire life and the one thing I learned was that aviation is deadly game that should only be played be the very elite - a lot of aviators out there have absolutely no business flying aircraft.

Loved the explanation of the difference between an accident and a mishap. You nailed it, brother!

Amazing story, and breakdown. Thank you for handling such a sensitive topic with such care. What happens next in this situation? You've recovered from the compressor stall and are awkwardly flying again. Can you adequately control the aircraft to try another carrier landing or do you have to find a clear spot and eject somewhere else? Is this situation recoverable all the way to a safe landing, or just in the sense of avoiding hitting the carrier?

I was stationed on Lincoln when this happened. I remember where I was when the call came over the 1MC "NAVY Blue, NAVY Blue, aircraft in the water"

@touristguy87

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure why you felt the need to post that comment. What exactly is it that you got out of saying that?

@bigcatdaddy76016

2 жыл бұрын

@@touristguy87 He said " i remember where I was when"...talking about the call of incident happening,...that's why he's posting.

@Chase-Man

2 жыл бұрын

@@touristguy87 take a shower and go outside...

@touristguy87

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chase-Man you've clearly spent too many months at sea crammed into a boat with a bunch of other men

@Chase-Man

2 жыл бұрын

@@touristguy87 I get some daddy issues vibes from you

Your video reminds me of of one my many epiphany moments during training, "Remember, the only control surface not affected by AOA is the rudder! USE IT!

OUTSTANDING POST ON ALL LEVELS!!! THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE WARD!!!🙏👌

I love your videos. I am an Air Force brat and was wanting to enter the Navy as an aviator. The geek in me at first, when you brought out the training aid, I thought about Robotech/Macross and had a moment of giddy.

My dad and Ed Andrews used to show such reels on our garage wall in Virginia Beach with the other pilots after such tragedies. I remember as a kid the looks on the pilots faces were so grim. Thanks for sharing, and your service.

I think i was there for the A6 ejection. It was on the USS America during desert storm. One of the aircrew went in the water. The Other was being dragged down the deck we jumped in his Chute. I was an AE with VF-33.

@aequoria2949

3 жыл бұрын

My dad was a PR in VF-33 1980-83.

@danielmarso7242

3 жыл бұрын

jumped into his Chute, quick thinking !

I remember reading about this from the excellent book "Bogeys and Bandits" by Robert Gandt; but hearing what exactly happened is truly enlightening. Thank you.

My parents met at Ft. SiIl, OK. Mom was a WAC. I've never been in combat. USCG, Cutter Confidence, Bering Sea Fisheries Patrol. Mechanic and Engineer, C - 130's PAC Basin SAR.

That LINCOLN crash was one of my last carrier deployments of my career. I've seen the videos many times since then but this is the first time I seen a proper incident breakdown from a TOMCAT driver's perspective. Thank you very much for that. I was a Navy Nuke and I have taught everywhere, inside and outside of the community and even since retiring ,that there are no accidents. Only unfortunate outcomes from acquired bad practices.

@yukikodavila4907

3 жыл бұрын

I was on board when this happened. Her quick decisions saved the lives of many sailors that day.

@supercarblondie1048

3 жыл бұрын

@@yukikodavila4907 T°°h°°°a°°n°°k y°°o°°u for your* *c°o=°m=°m=°e=°n=°t and view°,....***...*** The... boat.... ...is...really.. cool*"..I..know...you'll..love..it...😍😍..and...again.. before...I'll...forget..{[(n^o^w^^that^^bItcoiN^^is^a little bit lower}])/ >(Text.).. CLARABELLA.... W^h^a^t^s^a^p^p^+1(4^2^4^5^2^3^8^6^2^1^)^she^^has^^(the)^^••(b^e^st•)•^^^^ strategies••in^••t^r^a^d^e^{••¢rypto^^^}••tell^••her^..that^>=I>=>r^e^c^o^m^m^e^n^d^e^d••y^o^u^$^^

I'm a retired Senior Chief Avionics Technician with several, including the maiden workups/deployment on the Lincoln. I remember the integration of females flying the 14 and this incident, and while not on the Abe when it happened, I do remember this being a huge talking point/discussion around the Mess. I've heard rumors, speculation, aka 'Scuttlebutt' around what had happened and had always wondered the exact details surrounding the incident. I just want to say thank you for the honest and unbiased editorial on the event. Love the channel. Thanks.

@kolt46

3 жыл бұрын

@K L "She wouldn’t qualify in the Air Force. Even you know this." Because it is so hard to land on a huge stationary runway?

@e.conboy4286

3 жыл бұрын

@@kolt46 Yeah!

@allenl.2437

3 жыл бұрын

@K L Sorry, have to respectfully disagree there. I spent many years in Naval, mostly carrier based and although I have a huge amount of respect for Air Force pilots (Spent several years contracting for Air Force in Iraq and Afghanistsn) So having been in combat theaters with both services I have no doubt Navy and Marine Corp pilots are generally more skilled aviators than your typical Air Force pilot.

@billinca9274

Жыл бұрын

Ward, I was a Simulator Instructor (in a Different Community at Miramar, in San Diego) when Kara had her Mishap. Sim Instructors in her Community, Indicated the Feminatzis were Pushing her to be Carrier Qualified. She needed More Sim Time, before going to Qualify at "The Boat" It's the Politically Oriented Feminists, who actually got her Killed. {Bill in CA}

I am so impressed by the way you discuss this topic: Unemotionally, respectfully, and truthfully. You seem like a very remarkable guy and you have my respect!

Great video, thanks for making it. RIP Kara.

Former Diamondback Plane Captain here, it's great to see that emblem on a flight suit once again. Great work, sir!

@terryhurst4823

2 жыл бұрын

I fueled a lot of Diamondbacks and Starfighters on board the America from 87-91, great planes and crew!

First time watching. As a nonpilot citizen civilian this elevated my already very high regard for military pilots. Skills, training, instant response, risk, dedication, all of it and ground crew. Thank you all.

Thanks for taking the time to explain --- I'm a retired Army Pilot --- glad I got to view your video - Thanks again --

Ward, I just watched your Kara Hultgreen video and found it very informative. By way of background, I was a West Coast E-2 pilot/instructor/LSO/NATOPS evaluator. Years 1973-93 and was at Whiting Field with the first female Naval Aviators. I will say it was a bit rocky for everyone and the pressure for them to succeed was enormous. We were operating one “one down in phase and out” rule as the Navy worked to reduce aviator count post Viêt Nam. I think you did a very credible job of “just the facts.” I’ve not watched all the videos, so if you’ve covered how adverse yaw as occurs in long wing span aircraft, great. The E-2 community deals with that routinely and it is key to understanding the roll into the failed engine despite (because of) stick input, why opposite rudder input with judiciously applied aileron is crucial as is reducing thrust to a manageable level (although massively counterintuitive). Pilots of large multi engine aircraft do a lot of rudder flying, so it’s second nature. Thanks, John

Watching the video brought back memories. I was an AO with VS-21, one of our birds had an aileron failure right after the cat shot and began to roll. The crew ejected into the water. Only the TOCCO survived, LTJG Kelly. LTJG Roy Pilot, CDR Anderso COTAC, CO, AW3 David Stenstrom. RIP Shipmates, We Have The Watch.

@WardCarroll

3 жыл бұрын

I’ve seen that PLAT footage. RIP.

@mattshane8409

3 жыл бұрын

Redtail alum…. But well after this tragedy. RIP

Sad day for me. I was running 13A, Life Support shop, and was getting my tool boxes inspected for pre cruise inspection when I heard that on the PLAT. She was one of mine. Then later, the Nashville crash. LCDR Bates and Lt. Higgins both died. I was on the reclamation team for that. That was a hard sea tour for all of us who were in VF-213

@davidbaldwin1591

3 жыл бұрын

May I ask sir, Did the survivor of this story , did he continue in his position in this same type of aircraft, or what happened?

@gravitypronepart2201

3 жыл бұрын

@@davidbaldwin1591 To the best of my recollection Mr. Clemish continued in the squadron, but it's been a while. I dont know where he went from there.

Ward, I was one of the Trouble Shooter/ Final Checker on the F-14, VF-84 that day in May 1980, when the right engine stalled being launch off the Nimitz. I'll never forget that launch that day!

I have to say, the detailed information you give as someone who was there throughout this history is pretty great. Your presentation style is great, just sitting there talking right to us in relaxed fashion.

@decimated550

3 жыл бұрын

And I must say he is showing off his well-appointed room, very classy looking furniture

@spacecatboy2962

3 жыл бұрын

@@decimated550 yeah, not sure about those beatles though, need to get john fogerty up there.

@Patchman123

3 жыл бұрын

@@spacecatboy2962 Who honestly gives a shit?

Ward. Just wanted to say thank you for giving all of us in youtube land your time to tell us your stories and knowledge of times past. I'm sure many of us watching, including myself, watched every documentary we could find on naval aviation and none of that compares to actually hearing it from someone who lived it. So thanks again for doing this Hope you have a good one.

@WardCarroll

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching, Michael. That’s what makes the effort worth it.

@danrespicio1213

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed Michael!!!!

Thank you so much for your thorough, dispassionate approach. Clearly you care very much. I happened upon your channel but have subscribed. As a musician, I also note your care for the Beatles, the Ric, Acoustic and Marshall Stack. All the best.

I remember that accident. So very sad! Thanks for explaining it.

Guy is waving a Tomcat at me with a Rickenbacker and a Gibson peeping in the back, next to the Marshall stack and the Abbey Road pictures. Fastest subscribe in YT history!

@kurtfoulke5130

3 жыл бұрын

The pictures on the wall have changed but the hardware hasn't. He doesn't always drink beer. But when he does, he prefers Dos Equis !

@patrickcooper2760

3 жыл бұрын

I absolutely love the old Richenbacker basses! I've played B.C.Rich Warlocks for the last 30+ year's but have dreamed of owning and playing a Richenbacker like the one Cliff Burton played.

@mrivantchernegovski3869

3 жыл бұрын

I saw that to,i was just watching a episode on Rickenbacker guitars on 5 watt world .Great channel 5 watt world .

@mikeshelley4862

3 жыл бұрын

What about the Taylor in the room?

@tarasbulba3190

3 жыл бұрын

@@mrivantchernegovski3869 Saw that vid!👍

Never been anything close to being a aviator I served in the Navy as a GMG. I stumbled upon this as I roamed looking for interesting videos. You grabbed my from the start and explained everything in detail but it was also to where I understood everything Thank you and Well Done. RIP Kara and all other aviators who left this earth early.

@WardCarroll

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Steve. Glad you stopped by.

@thumper9633

3 жыл бұрын

DDG-8, Mount 51, Gun Captain. Good to meet you!

@renatosureal

3 жыл бұрын

@@WardCarroll @Ward Carroll The AIRPLANE does not care if the pilot is FEMALE or MALE, right ?! So then... let's **PUT THOSE WOMEM ON front line INFANTRY, if they are so ... **_integrated_** !!!**

@knoahbody69

3 жыл бұрын

@@renatosureal You need to do a search before you post, dood. This was eight years ago. Where have you been? kzread.info/dash/bejne/n4mCrM9ve6exgJM.html

@USSBB62

3 жыл бұрын

I favor 5" 38's From BB 62 to Framed Fletcher's Watched a lot of landings and touch and go's while on plane guard. Thank God no mishaps. Picked up a few sailors blown overboard by Jet wash though.