thumbs down because of the misleading title. There is nothing new in this video, no „real reason“

@p-s-x741

10 ай бұрын

Wdym misleading? The title is literally just saying the real reason for why he is banned, what part was misleading in the title???

@snickle1980

9 ай бұрын

@@p-s-x741 banned from what?

I watched the complete video and still I'm waiting for the real reason announced in the headline..

@MenyeMC

9 ай бұрын

😂

@ruthxk7844

5 ай бұрын

True😂 I thought he was gonna say because Hans is rude and cynical and likes doing sarcastic jokes but ok

@tanithrosenbaum

4 ай бұрын

I think the "real reason" is at about 8:10, where the video essentially states that Nieman admitting to cheating once at age 16 is supposedly grounds enough to exclude him from the chess world for life. I personally don't know how I feel about that, I don't think actions as a minor should be held against someone once they have become an adult.

One of the things I find fascinating about the this scandal is how viral it went. Cheating in chess is treated so differently than in other sports.

@mort45954

9 ай бұрын

I think it's because Chess is ultimately a 0 variance game that involves only one operator. Top engines are so much better than humans, and you can let them play the game for you. No matter how many steroids I took, or how much I corked my bat, or how many people were in the dugout banging trash cans, I am never, ever hitting a home run against an MLB pitcher. But give me Stockfish? I'm the greatest Chess player who's ever lived.

@sumitpatel9856

9 ай бұрын

​@@mort45954that's like asking for a ferrari to win a marathon

@gorlankarya3849

9 ай бұрын

well said@@mort45954

@justsomeguywithagoatee8337

9 ай бұрын

@@mort45954 well said!

@klausschwab9905

9 ай бұрын

​@@mort45954 I know it's been a while, but I just wanted to say that your answer was the most well-thought-out and articulated opinion I've heard on this subject. I was so impressed by your reply that I would be willing to bang on a trash can to help you out if you were ever playing chess. And when the arbiter comes to throw me out of the playing hall and asks "what the heck are you doing," I will keep my mouth shut, or I could frame another player of your choosing. Have a great day.

The red flag for me was how he was unable to analyze the game rationally afterwards. He did not seem to understand the game he just played.

@drugsorme2714

8 ай бұрын

Some people are just bad at explaining.

@frankbaque9060

7 ай бұрын

​@@drugsorme2714Not something that you're good at. Take for instance how to play the guitar in a song that you wrote. You memorize the strumming of the entire song and then we it came to teach someone else your song you can't. You just say watch and imitate. The same does not go with chess , every move has a reason to be. And if you know the reason you can explain it, even in a complex way that is hard to grasp for some people but no for fellow grand masters.

So where is the "REAL" reason Niemann is banned..? All this is known, nothing new here! Another clickbait video reiterating the same old things..

The remarkable ability for GMs to remember mad details about their games have been embellished in some cases, but I think it was mainly the online cheating reputation that labled him as suspect from the beginning!

@SaintD382

3 ай бұрын

Exactly: he tarnished his own reputation by cheating -- which he knew better than to do, but did it anyway -- and because of those bad choices, he will be forever suspect.

Things became more suspicious when Hans could not even explain his moves at several crucial positions against alireza. Point to be noted he played few very unusual but computer best moves in that game.

@diannelovesyou

10 ай бұрын

you mean; when someone is exhausted after a game against someone who (at the time) was considered a contender for the world chess championship can't properly articulate themselves in a formal and time sensitive setting they're under suspicion for cheating? If I play an hour long game of chess, personally, I can barely fathom talking at all nevermind giving an interview at a level so high that it's barely likely the interviews themselves will 100% understand.

@ismailhossain964

10 ай бұрын

@@diannelovesyou If you watch chess at grand master lvl regularly, you would know that, there is always a interview section after important games. And all grandmaster happily discuss some lines with an interviewer. Its the tradition. If some one dont want do discuss he can ignore that and that also acceptable widely. And this is also very common. Unable to describe lines that someone played is extremely rare scenario. And giving some wrong moves and the interviewer refuting every move without even a computer analysis bar is something like "impossible to happen"

@nathanielrobles3284

10 ай бұрын

​@@diannelovesyou If you know what you did, you naturally say it in all sports after games even if it took hours and players gets tired, they know what they did and is able to say it in interviews after games. Getting tired don't make people stupid.

@aminesosa8676

10 ай бұрын

Go back and watch Alireza's interview he was the one clueless about the position.

@Chessdummy

10 ай бұрын

Which game, when and where? Eh, who cares?

I watch Hans’ KZread videos sometimes. And in one video he said, “if somebody stole a comic book at 12, are they more likely to rob a bank (when they’re older)?” Obviously the answer in his mind is ‘no’. But I would disagree. I think showing a willingness to do bad things at a young age is a very good indicator that you are more likely to do bad things when you’re older. Another way to phrase it would be, “if I used to torture the cats in my neighborhood at 12, do you think I’m more likely to commit murder as an adult?” I would say the answer is obviously yes.

@vondervent

5 ай бұрын

The answer is indeed obviously 'no', actually; people change.

@vondervent

5 ай бұрын

Willingness to do bad things can be overshadowed by the willingness to be a better person.

It's a bit funny how not playing for a while can help boost your elo. Fischer did this a few times in the 60s. Each time he came back stronger snd stronger.

@JakeKlineMusic

9 ай бұрын

Quit for just long enough that you struggle a bit. I've done it a handful of times with playing the keyboard impromptu, and once or twice with playing (almost exclusively my own concoctions) on electric guitar.

@JakeKlineMusic

9 ай бұрын

It helps your brain slightly forget everything, including whatever bad habits were holding you back.

@joseviu969

9 ай бұрын

@@JakeKlineMusic i noticed this with skateboard too

Amazing video, keep up the good work!

He could not explain the computer moves he played

While I was watching the video I thought you were a really big channel due to the quality of the script and editing, imagine my surprise when I saw you only have 2000 subs at the moment. Keep it up man, you'll definetely grow on the platform in the long run!

@darrylkassle361

9 ай бұрын

Yeah his only been doing it since April. He will definitely get to 100k in no time at the rate his going. Just a matter of time and exposure.

@SaintD382

3 ай бұрын

Wow, five months later he's almost at 50K...

"Reputations, you know - a lifetime to build, seconds to destroy. " --Shakespeare (no, not William. Captain Shakespeare)

He’s a cheater, end of story. Just look at all those awful errors he has done in recent games, he doesn’t thrive in pressure and end games like before, and that has been his kriptonite before, he knows that, he knew that, that’s why he was cheating in critical positions.

Hans never gives detailed interview about the games he wins. After the game like other GMs do.. if he is not cheating he can speak about the positions and critical moments that occurred during the game.. which is impossible to do if you are cheating. I think is the best evidence we can have. If you cannot explain your thought process in an interview, then you didn't had a thought process and just knew the correct moves.

@squallrulz20

9 ай бұрын

or he could just have something like asperses and be unable to explain it externally

@johnlavers3970

9 ай бұрын

total nonsense, not evidence. neiman played in open soon after and performed well

@caelestemundus5178

9 ай бұрын

His rating is not low in any case, Even if he is not 2600-2700, then he is at least 2500. At 2500 you can easily analyze the game and explain the positions. So it's hard to call it proof.

@mekkler

9 ай бұрын

Hans is still a GM level player, he should be able to come up with a plausible explanation for a pivotal move.

@GukGukNinja

9 ай бұрын

Okay that might be true, but please apply some Bayesian thinking. I'd rather believe that P(Hans shit at explaining things | didn't cheat) > P(Hans shit at explaining things | cheated) because P(cheated | all security measures) is extremely low and borderline conspirational. Also his performance and his ability to explain things don't change that much before and after all the security measures. If your personal Bayesian probability of Hans cheating never changes despite new information, then you're clearly biased.

He can't even explain his moves. Even a FM can explain better than that. What else do we need for evidence?

@DaaimShabazz

10 ай бұрын

Wrong. You apparently haven't seen all of his postgame interviews.

@npc2153

10 ай бұрын

I like hans. We need more top American gms. But we can't have cheaters it makes the u.s look bad. The fact he can't explain his moves is probably the best evidence you cant get in this kind of case.

@alkaholic4848

10 ай бұрын

@@npc2153 And the obvious anomalies in the statistics. Like how he plays quite poorly most of the time, then every now and then it's like someone flicks a switch and he suddenly has a perfect game, far better than any chess player ever in history. Inhumanly good you could say. Then immediately returns to being shit again the game after.

@DWN-Infinity

10 ай бұрын

Wrong. The chess game speaks for itself

@crying.sobbing.throwingup

10 ай бұрын

the chess speaks for itself

It's more than that. Classical as you know is more than your casual Chess game. There's tons of hard work and prep that goes into it ONTOP of studying your opponent. Hans bested someone 200 points stronger than him, who also happens to be a Magnus (nuff said) he somehow managed to out play Magnus in an opening Magnus hadn't done before because Hans "decided to study it that night" and then in a post game interview couldn't explain his thought process of the game at all. Even I can take one of my games and explain why I did something. It's as simple as asking me "Why did you get a glass of water just now" "because I was thirsty.

"The beads vibrate for themself."

When you play games with 100% correlation with computer moves you are done, it is simple as this. Precision and correlation are two different things. Even Kasparov, Fischer and Carlsen have never done it. A 95% precision may mean 75% correlation. Nieman played several games with 100% correlation which is more than dubious. In his best year Fischer had 72% correlation and never played a single game with 100% correlation

@diannelovesyou

10 ай бұрын

Unfortunately there is no way to sort like this, so the task would be tedious to little reward as I doubt it would change your opinion. Nevertheless, I would be willing to bet that between the lichess ratings of 1900 to 3xxx there will be a considerable amount of games where 1 player plays literally perfectly. This could be because their opponent throws, this could be because they play a totally theoretical draw, this could be because one is - in some way - quite an expert on an opening. Your accusation is baseless and illogical

@nathanielrobles3284

10 ай бұрын

​@@diannelovesyouthis was based on many games and not just one or selected games. There also was a game where Nieman and another kid were both playing perfect chess and it is just one of the many instances where Nieman played like a top computer. Take note that humans cannot beat modern AI chess nowadays.

@aminesosa8676

10 ай бұрын

@@nathanielrobles3284 Those data were fake and the people behind them have been exposed!

@aminesosa8676

10 ай бұрын

Hans Niemann 100% engine correlation is fake and if you actually followed the case you would've known that!

@Nyxyz999

10 ай бұрын

​@@aminesosa8676the only fact we know is hans have cheating history. And that is why he have a bad reputation.

Wow, your channel is very underrated

In addition to everything else, Neimann showed no excitement about winning, absolutely no sign of release of mental tension upon finding out that the decisions he made at peak concentration and risk were correct. Nothing. He just was blank faced and then insulted the other player. That pattern is 100% cheater behavior. Robbie Lew did the same thing after that sketchy hand against Garrett Adelstein.

@peterodonnell4404

9 ай бұрын

I think this is one of the most telling pieces of evidence. It was clearly what troubled Carlsen most in his later reflections on that game. The behaviour is what I would personally expect of someone who was cheating.

@mathildewesendonck7225

9 ай бұрын

Niemann, not Neimann…

@EGarrett01

9 ай бұрын

@@mathildewesendonck7225I don't give a damn, his name isn't worth remembering.

another important point: I doubt if there is a genius cheats as a young boy, did you ever see a genius cheating in his young age? no. Simply because geniuses have the ultimate joy and pleasure to play and tast their geniusty in that young age by beating their peers, and the other strong players as well.

Wow! Well said! I was not expecting such a well-presented video on the topic. Thanks!

Obviously Hans cheated, admits it himself has done it in the past, and can't explain his current games... well because he's cheating

5:18 TLDR: The website didn't ban Hans Niemann due to the Magnus Carlsen drama. They banned him because they had an internal report analyzing Hans Niemans games.

@bluefin.64

9 ай бұрын

They knew for a long time that Hans had cheated on their site. He had been banned before and reinstated. It's no coincidence they banned him again right after Magnus accused him of cheating. They produced their report a month after that. That report showed that their "best in the world" cheat detection system found no OTB cheating by Hans at any time. They also consulted Ken Regan, FIDE's cheat detection expert, who said the same thing, but they decided to include their subjective opinion that some of Hans's games looked suspicious to them. Clearly their intention was to justify their action after the fact. They also broke their promise to Hans, the same one they give to all players who cheat and confess to them, that they would not publish anything about his cheating, including his private correspondence. This was very shabby behavior, and all of it because Magnus made a false accusation based on nothing more than a feeling. I lost a lot of respect for Magnus because of this, as well as for Erick Allebest and Danny Rensch.

@MorningNapalm

9 ай бұрын

Well, first they banned him to buy time, then they kept him banned due to the report findings.

@bluefin.64

9 ай бұрын

@@MorningNapalm The objective report findings were that he never cheated OTB. The rest was self-serving b.s.

His name is Hans, He is a villain per Definition.

Nice analysis.

This analysis is extremely well made. You are so underrated, great video!

@flicfan416

9 ай бұрын

literally reiterated everything that has been discussed/reported for the past year. hans' history of cheating in 2020 was the first thing brought up when Magnus pulled out of Sinquefield.

@darchie4950

9 ай бұрын

@@flicfan416 bro that was the whole point of the video? to summarise the past year or so's events in a singular video.

@ryuk5673

9 ай бұрын

@@darchie4950 nah dude your praising him for literally covering a 2 year old story with no new details. Besides, he doesn't even always tell the truth in my opinion. Sometimes he twists details and one of the reason's I'm going to start avoiding this channel. Seems like its just some clickbait drama queen show.

Hans Niemann admitted cheating up to he was 16 years old. In chess that is already pretty old as we have 12 year old boys being GM:s (Abhimanyu Mishra, Karjakin, Gukesh, Praggnanandhaa as examples), and money comes into count already at that time. Its quite young to get punnished when one is16 yo, but he knew long time before that he shouldnt be cheating - that is well known on all chess platforms. And we can see how his rating is decreasing rapidy right now, and is today 2661. Together with some suspicious behaviour (ex. difficult to explain a game he played) and extreme rating increase, its rising huge red flags. Compared with sport, doping is a very sensitive thing. I believe this is about the same. A 16 yo using doping would be banned (Ex.15 yo Kamila Valieva).

@Nyxyz999

10 ай бұрын

💯

@flacsomtodosclas2165

10 ай бұрын

Its not old in hans case he started playing at 14 also another difference is that hans did it online idk the case of Kamila but im sure it was on a official tournamment so all of your commentary is just a manipulative statement using incomplete information.

@idisplaypace2411

10 ай бұрын

Your "12 year old boys being GMs" thing is incorrect. Only twice has a 12 year old become a GM

I feel like this video was using the right means but reached a forced destination. Saying 'well Hans had bad reputation so slander is fine now' is what shows how flawed chess in itself is nowadays. If the legitimacy of matches depends on something as vague as reputation and not on stone-cold facts, that's not a very legitimate sport.

Very nice video. Thank you❤

How to cleanup your damaged chess rep ? Maybe he could change his name and start from scratch , it works in video games .

@dereknichols4376

10 ай бұрын

He didnt need to do that,just play consistently with all newly added security but instead, he losing so hard in elo and played badly every event it just adds more suspicion to his allegation

@milansvancara

9 ай бұрын

@@dereknichols4376 Guess you've never been competeing in a pro-scene of anything, otherwise you would know how little of an additional pressure is enough to destroy your performance...

@tomatoisnotafruit5670

9 ай бұрын

@@milansvancara that's excuses, if Niemann was truly innocent, he would certainly continue playing well and these added scrutiny would only serve as a motivator to prove all his doubters wrong, instead Niemann only proved all his doubters have a point.

@symbarh

9 ай бұрын

@@tomatoisnotafruit5670 Hans's rating hasn't changed a bit since he defeated crybaby Magnus.

@tomatoisnotafruit5670

9 ай бұрын

@@symbarh Yes it has, he reached 2700 when he cheated against Magnus. Then he stopped playing for some months and now in the summer he started playing regularly games again and his rating takes a very noticeable nose dive about 50 points already down from his highest point when he was cheating. In Sinefield Cup Hans was winning against 2700+ rated GMs, but now over the summer when he started playing tournament he is losing to under 2500, he even has multiple loses to 2300 rated players, a true 2700 rated player doesn't regularly lose to 2300.

There is something I don't understand. When there is a criminal case, we can establish a proof based on DNA. DNA is not 100% perfect though, it is 'only' 99.99999999999% sure... yet we consider it as a proof because the likelihood of being wrong is negligible. Likewise, can't we calculate the likelihood for Niemann to play so many 'perfect' games without cheating, and if close enough to 0 then consider it a proof? It would make sens to me... don't know what your guys are thinking.

@NevarKanzaki

9 ай бұрын

If there were a specific cutoff for that, all one would have to do is make sure they're below that cutoff. Hans Niemann is also not churning out a hundred perfect games in a row. Also, players do have such games, some more than others. The issue with Hans Niemann are as follows. 1. We don't have proof in this instance and short of a confession, we never will. 2. Hans Niemann is an established cheater. 3. Hans Niemann admitted to cheating but post Magnus thing lied about his other cheating which was later exposed, meaning that even if we count only post-Magnus, he's still lying. Thus, we have additional reasons beyond history not to trust him. He tries to characterize the cheating he admits to as something he did as a kid but in reality, he's been cheating provably as recently as less than 2 years before the Magnus incident, including events that had monetary prizes. 4. Hans Niemann behaves like a person who cheats, unable to explain his moves, saying that he doesn't need to explain himself in a setting with the purpose of getting his explanations, and so on. We have every reason to disbelieve him, though no hard proof in this instance. He claims to have prepped against Magnus's specific opening that morning but it wasn't an opening Magnus usually plays, just something he at one point played in a quick time control game that one time. No one in their right mind would have chosen to prep for that. Then there's the time that he raged over a laptop running out of power which allowed his opponent more time to think and had a rant about it afterwards. This objection is valid but more importantly, it is suspicious because that caused the stream to be delayed which is the most obvious thing he'd have been relying on if he was cheating. The list goes on and on. This is just the tip of the iceberg. There's a boatload of things that are circumstantial and make us raise our eyebrow at it but each of them individually do not suffice as proof. As a collection of evidence, I'd find it pretty hard to believe that he's innocent. 5. Hans Niemann has fluctuating results which see various cases of notably higher than usual performance with multiple very high accuracy games over the course of particular tournaments. This is difficult because it is entirely possible. Improbable but possible. Yes, there are some cases where the person is an idiot and just plays 100 perfect games in a row when last week they were rated 1400. We can catch those easily. However, in this case it is difficult to differentiate what's cheating and what's a really good game from someone who is also a legitimately really good player. Should Hans Niemann be banned for the Magnus thing? I wouldn't say necessarily as that particular instance isn't provable. Should Hans Niemann have already been permabanned from all competition, be it online or over the board? It obviously isn't my call but in my opinion, yes. This isn't a case where he was cheating at his local tournament with 30 people when he was in middle school. There was that too but I'm more focused on the cheating he did with money on the line as a titled professional. And he's still lying about it. If we went by 3 strike rule, he'd be gone. If we said it was ok in casual but not in money, he'd be gone. If we even only put him under oath for his interviews, he was lying there so he'd be gone. Every action from him tells me he's an unapologetic liar. He may be a great player in his own right but I don't think chess needs cheaters and unapologetic liars and he's both of these things in a pretty provable way unlike the Magnus incident.

I‘m still not sure and we‘ll never know

Once a cheater always a cheater. He cheated (proven) to get prize money. That’s a person with no ethics. “But he was just a kid!!” No he was 16, and at 19 was playing magnus and beating not only him but many other top GM’s. 3 years isn’t a long time. Hopefully other up and comers see what happened to Hans as a warning, don’t ruin your reputation if you want people to take you seriously.

@npc2153

10 ай бұрын

Usa left the chat China left the chat Russia left the chat

@dbob132

10 ай бұрын

Yes once a cheater always a cheater! Once an addict always an addict! Once a shoplifter always a shoplifter! Once a vandal always a vandal! When will people learn that you are forever defined by your earliest mistake and there will never be any hope nor ability to change! Shame them and shame them well, for if you don't they might change their ways and be able to live down the faults of their past! Oh the horror!

@soakedbearrd

10 ай бұрын

@@dbob132 fail at sarcasm. Would you trust a reformed kid toucher around your kids? People change right? Let him babysit your 7 year daughter 🙄. See how exaggeration works?

@johnnydoe3603

10 ай бұрын

@@npc2153Logic Left the Chat 🤪

@johnnydoe3603

10 ай бұрын

@@soakedbearrdNot everyone understands Logic or Sarcasm. It’s Ok if you don’t get it. But he gave a Proportional Comparison but you are the One with the Magnus Logic. 🤪

Niemann was cheating. What is strange is, when tournaments start to delay moves from chess boards by 15 minuttes or more, Niemann result have dropped alot. He dont want to talk about his chess game, is also very guilty in my mind.

Cheating in chess is different from other sports, physical sports, since it's almost 100% winning chance. If a boxer, swimmer, mma fighter, runner etc use PEDs he/she will get an improved winning chances, but nothing as decisive as using Stockfish in chess

You are out of your mind saying there is no evidence. Every single game he wins is 100% computer moves. When he plays 1 minute he is no better than me. I've watched him play.

Yes it is public and they are able to see if you have other pages open on your computer and what pages you have open it's not rocket science

What if he just remembered what the computer would do.

@totalfreedom2408

9 ай бұрын

if you remember what stockfish would do are you a cheater? idk lmao

Its ok to just dont like someone sometimes... :)

Didn't concentrate much on critical positions and also seems to lack the mentality of GM

How you can explain that after winning Magnus Carsen best player of the word, and be the player who won more elo points in less time suddenly start lost agaisnt 2100 elo players after being carefully examinate for antiCheating devices? He went for 2700 elo player to 2100 or less just by accussasions also?,

I find this analysis as excellent.

This is just the beginning. I wonder how chess will be like when neural interfaces exist (I know that there are devices that, at a stretch, can be labeled as such but even those are unavailable to the general public).

@JohnDuthie

9 ай бұрын

I don't see this ever happening. The brain doesn't have some serial connection like an Arduino. Manipulating 86 BILLION custom neurons on each individual? No flipping way.

@fredkelly6953

9 ай бұрын

An electromagnetic pulse would end that option real quick.

@leaveeeevee5762

9 ай бұрын

​@fredkelly6953 That or a mad scientist augmenting a human both genetically and cybernetically to be able to calculate 50 - 100 variations in seconds, far beyond what a normal or even super GM could do. It would seem like cheating but having another Lee Sedol moment with chess engines with 4k elo would be borerline impossible today.

51 yrs old and haven't played for over 30 years. don't even know what castling was!! From quick observations, Hans does look nuts, odd ball high on something perhaps (most likely... just a hunch, no evidence). very very hard to cheat in overboard chess. Everyone has a nemesis and Perhaps Hansis just one of those for Magnus. Repeat Hans do look bonkers. The size of his head and brain however do show a highly highly intelligent person.

@MorningNapalm

9 ай бұрын

Head size has no correlation with intelligence.

Anynomous chess next ? 😂

is this the guy with A beads ?

This is all stuff we already knew.

I mean just 😂 get him to play blind folded with two people at the same time and then you will see the real magic 😂

@johnnydoe3603

10 ай бұрын

Was that a Joke 🤮

@dereknichols4376

10 ай бұрын

@@johnnydoe3603 ur brain is a joke

@YtubeUserr

9 ай бұрын

@@johnnydoe3603I don't think so, top GMs can do that easily. So this is a good test for a Super GM

Let's not forget that other players at that tournament thought Hans was cheating, they just kept quiet. Nepo, Caruana, ALireza. Magnus was the one who took the action to end this pathetic cheater's career.

@grasonb

7 ай бұрын

ended his career? lol

REally glad that cheater got caught.

Just goes to show you, never admit to anything, because there is no forgiveness or second chances in the world.

pretty good video for a 1k subs channel, congrats

hans with ftx in the background... lol!

It's quite obvious that Magnus knew about Hans past so he spend energy thinking about him possibly cheating and that is enough to make it unfair. So why would you wanna play someone at the top level if you think he might cheat at any given moment.

@fuzzysnuffles

9 ай бұрын

Are you saying that it is Person B's fault for the way Person A thinks?

@tardenov2968

9 ай бұрын

Hans is a GM so if magnus makes a mistake which he did he can win. Only other explanation is that he cheated to get that title. He didn't my chess coach is and IM and he played otb games against him not on tournaments but friendly and when i asked him if he thinks that Hans cheated he said no.

Well if the improbability of such sudden progress is beyond any reasonable doubt, that's what defines a guilty sentence. That said, allow him to play under very stringent control.

@bluefin.64

9 ай бұрын

How improbable was it? What's the measure, the limit that says it can't be human? You have to answer those questions before you can make a judgment, but you can't, because people come along who change expectations. Magnus raised the bar for play that matches engine scores, for example. In any case, if you measure Hans' progress by games played instead of over time, it's no better than several other players. He just played a lot of games close together. Also, Levon Aronion had a more rapid rise over time than Hans. No one thinks he's a cheater, so such progress is apparently only suspicious if you're Hans.

@jamesfolken3163

9 ай бұрын

It does not matter how Hans Niemann reached 2650-2700, the point is that he is playing chess *now* like 2650-2700 in spite of all controls.

@GeorgeDCowley

9 ай бұрын

I recall that he had the second strangest growth curve out of the analysed Grandmasters.

@bluefin.64

9 ай бұрын

@@GeorgeDCowley It was rapid over time. Over number of games it was similar to several other players. What he did was play a lot of games close together while he progressed, but apparently that's a sign of cheating.

but Magnus must provide real evidence of how the cheat process works in over the board chess ?....

Before you make such an Video you to inform more about chess. In Chess there ist Something Like Accuracy that means how good did you play against someone compare to Stockfish. Stockfish is a Program which hast an elo of 3800 and Niemann playes many Games with Accuracy to and that Up to 38 Turns. This is Impossible. This was bis Problem because No Human can Play Like Stockfish but He did and that multiple Times.

Unfortunately Hans N is slipping in Elo points, falling before 2700 Elo.

@johnnydoe3603

10 ай бұрын

Well, how do you Think People would Perform getting Bullied by Magnus, a Big Chess Corporation and the Fangirls of Magnus ? 😂

@dereknichols4376

10 ай бұрын

@@johnnydoe3603 Lamo,Alireza got called cheater multiple times,even by Hikaru now look at him excuse",go find another excuse kiddo getting bullied but sued magnus to court,amazing logic little kiddo imbecile as always

He is banned from what ?

noicely made video brotha

Character is destiny.

Chess DID show concrete evidence, they've documented other browser windows open right before he solves a position. What chess didn't say, but implicates, his ip shows he had analysts boards open in other browser windows Even without the at analysis window, the fact he opens windows in difficult position IS hard evidence

Good post

Hans Niemann is obviously an SCP

@rickcarson591

9 ай бұрын

If you want to bring in SCP my choice would have been Fischer ....

Other GMs dont have history of cheating is not true. Other GM.s never admitted that they cheated. Cheating 2200 player is easy to detect but 2600 player is much much harder. They know all about countermeasures and how to avoid them. 2200 Hans didnt know that because he was kid.

Once a cheater, always a cheater…

Hans was never even Banned man what are you talking about 😂 he just won a tournament a few weeks ago. Stop trying to pretend like Hans is "cancelled". He isnt. He is not banned from chess competition, he might be investigated but thats it. This is what you get when Chess noobs start to make KZread video's and pretend they know anything about chess.

Even if you totally discount all the over the board suspicions, the fact that he very recently publicly lied about how often and how recently he cheated is grounds enough to exclude him from tournaments. Like it or hate it, he is now a cautionary tale for future generations. He cheated in prize money events, live streams, 100s of online games. Someone like that only has one defense and it's to claim you're as clean as a whistle and you'll play naked to prove it. If you have to say that for other players to feel at ease enough for you to play at a tournament, you shouldn't be allowed at the tournament.

I don't get it, the real reason is what we already knew? Ok

Let this guy play vs any 2600 player in best of 10 or 12 games and we will know what he is

@donrane

8 ай бұрын

Not really. If he wins he cheats, if he loses he cheats ?! Which both are true statements.

why produce a recap video? Nothing new is added... just copy paste of old data.

Maybe Hans Niemann is a robot

hans maybe made unexpected moves that was similiar to a computer move, but so do alot of players every tournament. im not saying hans didn't cheat, but what is true that there is no proof. huge double standard, if another player gets accused they will say show me the proof, if hans gets accused they kick him out. it is true magnus has favortism in the chess league, this is wrong.

@tomatoisnotafruit5670

9 ай бұрын

Hans has a history of cheating, so he does not get the benefit of the doubt like others clean chess players would.

@backyardbque1964

9 ай бұрын

@@tomatoisnotafruit5670 what about the proof he cheated, and how did he cheat what method did he use?

Because his Chess speaks with fork 👅👅👅 tongue 😢😢😢

Why are people defending Niemann?I dont get it.

@MorningNapalm

9 ай бұрын

Possibility 1: Americans wanting an American to win. (Read carefully: I am not saying that all American will accept a cheater if he is American, just that the people who support Niemann are likely Americans who want to see an American win.) Possibility 2: people who don't like Magnus, for whatever reason.

the thing i failed to understand is how did he cheat? no one really knows. or did he really cheat?

@MorningNapalm

9 ай бұрын

No one knows, but analysing his games statistically shows a very high likelihood of cheating, and his refusal/inability to explain key moves in post-game interviews puts the last nail in the coffin.

what I find so crazy is that website is the only gaming site I've ever seen in 30 years of online gaming that literally make exceptions for their sponsored streamers to smurf and make alternate accounts. Which is literally the main reason that online gaming will never be respected by society. That anonymity and the undermined match makers have always made online gaming seen as nothing but platforms for cheaters. The sites' streamers literall promotes rating manipulation under the guise of education. its disgusting to ban the kid when they couldn't even find a game they suspect of him cheating in since they gave him a pass. Chess in general was never respected by societies heavily into sports like the USA, because every GM will tell you at one point in their OTB careers they prearranged draws. They admit it publicly like its not a big deal. Like Bobby Fischer said, chess is nothing but Memory, Spatial Vision, and POLITICS.

@rickcarson591

9 ай бұрын

Don't they give the affected players their ratings points back when they lose in those scenarios though? E.g. if some random ChessBrah does a Sicillian/English Speedrun on a 'smurf' account then everyone they beat gets their rating back. Probably the funniest thing though is when they run into players who are _clearly_ cheating .... and have to drop hints to the viewers that that is the case. I think there's a sweetness to the victory when they beat those players.

@cooloutac

9 ай бұрын

@rickcarson591 @rickcarson591 not all the time because they don't always notify the site. It's why lichess no longer makes exceptions its impossible to control. That ginger gm guy got banned twice for not notifying them as an example. The bigger problem though is the viewers who imitate them. Lichess states right in their tos it encourages rating manipulation. They have dozens more measures in place to ensure competitive matches in Fairplay compared to their popular competitor. Online gaming is not respected because of the smurfing and anonymity, and the cheesy chess site is literally encouraging and promoting it. It's commonplace for people to create multiple accounts. So commonplace a KZreadr just a couple days ago told me I should create a new accounting climb up the ELO ranks again. I had to explain to the guy that is considered cheating by me and in the real world. Lol.

@MorningNapalm

9 ай бұрын

@cooloutac You are making up facts to suit your narrative, and you didn't watch the video very carefully. They found over 100 games where he likely cheated.

@cooloutac

9 ай бұрын

@MorningNapalm the website found none in the past few years. They literally published a document talking about games in the past, already after the fact.

@cooloutac

9 ай бұрын

@MorningNapalm not only did they not even suspect any games in the past couple years they exposed the fact they knew about 100 games they suspected but still allowed him to play. But what can you expect from a website that literally makes exceptions for its sponsored streamers to Smurf and speedrun for ad money which literally encourages rating manipulation. They let day old accounts in tourneys. Even their verified account tourneys are really only verifying your money. Lol. Basically online gaming will never be respected in general because of the anonymity and this website is the first I've ever seen in thirty years that actually exacerbates the situation due to its corruption and politics.

If you have mind-demons that your opponent might be cheating those are _yours_ to deal with. It's up to organizers to make sure players don't cheat, and up to players to handle their nerves or whatever else goes through their minds.

Quote: re Magnus not entering tournaments with Hans: "Meaning the world chess champion fully believed Niemann was cheating". I have to call this line out - it does not in any way mean Magnus fully believed such a thing. To make a claim is a bit irresponsible - how can you claim to know what someone fully believes? There could be any number of reasons that Magnus refuses to play in tournaments with Niemann - the most likely being that he does not like him one bit.

@DaaimShabazz

9 ай бұрын

We know Carlsen is not taking a stance because he has played others who were known cheaters... just a month after his statement he was playing Maghsoodloo. Carlsen and Niemann did a photo op on the Miami Beach at the FTX tournament two weeks before Sinquefield, so it wasn't that he didn't like him. Something had changed. You can see photos of Carlsen's standing by him watching his games at the Sinquefield. This was before their game though. Carlsen did not take too kindly to the trashtalk after the loss. It was in poor taste by Hans and that teenage mistake cost him dearly.

@MorningNapalm

9 ай бұрын

Magnus put his own reputation on the line with his actions, and he fully chose to risk it. The only possible reason is cheating. No one chose to refuse to play Kasparov although he was a massive jerk.

How did he cheat? This is OTB, not an online tournament where you can just pull up an engine on the side screen.

@sharzo7728

9 ай бұрын

you dont know what you talking do you? there are several devices for cheating, he could have used a device inside his anus which could communicate through pulses. similarly there are advanced cheating devices.

@jamesfolken3163

9 ай бұрын

@@sharzo7728 There are checks with metal detectors and radio-frequency scanners. Try again.

@qqw743

9 ай бұрын

Communicated somehow with someone signaling from an engine. I don't know how. That doesn't prove he didn't do it. As Eric Hansen said "Don't ask me how he cheated, I'm not a cheater, I don't know how to cheat."

@pallypaw5460

9 ай бұрын

If its in deep enough, your body has natural electrical current which goes undetected, if the device is low level and just gives off a small current, it will be indistinguishable to any current technology. Hence the accusations of the sex toy firing pulses to nemans magic spot.

They were claiming online when Magnus Carlson was in the match with Hans Neiman that he was cheating when he used the same moves and opening the same way. That he did in a tournament, so what they should do is they should allow them a 3 out of 5 and need to use different openings every match. This should further give people an even greater idea of whether Hans Neiman was cheating or not.

@dipswewon4701

9 ай бұрын

yeah that is not a thing, all top level chess players spend a substatial amount of time memorizing the usual playing pattern and previous games of their opponent before meeting them. Hans claimed the game he played had the same 20 move opening as a game Magnus played against Wesley in 2018 but iirc that proved to be wrong, so he couldnt prove where he got the prep.

He's unbeadable

Once a cheater, always a cheater. The fact he wasn't permanently banned after being caught MULTIPLE TIMES is crazy to me. Imagine that at the Olympics. Someone caught using steroids, then 4 years later getting to play again and winning gold. One, a cheater has forever tarnished their reputation. Two, there's no proof to say he didn't cheat again, but just didn't get caught that time.

@fuckyoutube4398

9 ай бұрын

well said

@falkeborg9432

9 ай бұрын

Sad that this is true

@joseviu969

9 ай бұрын

everyone uses steroids tho, in chess is not

So, he was banned for cheating online at 16 and because Magnus is salty. Nothing new here.

While I think it is fairly likely Niemann is a cheater, I don't like the idea of statistical evidence that merely adds up to a player making correct moves 'too often' for their previous rating and not necessarily being able to describe situations verbally in interviews. Alpha zero plays like a supercomputer based on pattern recognition, an AI version of intuition. It's not absurd that a human player someday might play intuitively and in fact be outstanding without having calculated everything. We should not assume all players must achieve excellence the same way. My strong suspicion of Niemann isn't based on the evidence, but on his attitude, which simply strikes me as guilty. I don't know that he's guilty, though, and the public evidence isn't that great.

@donrane

8 ай бұрын

You simply have to use statistical evidence. What would keep me, a 1200 elo player, from winning every single online chess tournament if not using that ?

@bookender

8 ай бұрын

@@donrane maybe there just isn't a good way to prove it. You don't have to accept evidence for a claim just because nothing better is available. That isn't logical.

Can someone please rectify these two premises: 1) Hans is a huge cheater whose gains in chess were ill-gotten. 2) Hands performs at an extremely high level in OTB chess tournaments with the world's best? Like, he's admitted he cheated. Magnus lost to him without any evidence of cheating. Magnus loses sometimes (see Qatar Masters). Hans is a high-level player. If he dropped off completely in OTB games... I would get the hate, but he is still very competitive.

2:35 both of these guys are banned.. i would rather be Niemann

He should be banned. And that’s it. He deserved to be banned.

If he was cheating prove it how he was doing that.

Hans is stealthily dropping to his true 2600 rating hoping everyone forgets about his cheating ways

@johnnydoe3603

10 ай бұрын

Imagine getting Bullied by the Fangirls of Magnus and a Big Corporation that is Incidentally in a Business Deal with Magnus. 😂

@dereknichols4376

10 ай бұрын

@@johnnydoe3603 Lmao,keep using 'bully' excuse kiddo find a more logical excuse

@jamesfolken3163

9 ай бұрын

He reached 2710 Elo in May. Only about 135 players in the history had more than 2700 Elo.

@MorningNapalm

9 ай бұрын

He is undoubtedly a good chess player, just not top class. @@Steves_fish

Bro who needs evidence when hes so clearly tripping out about the fact that he actually is a cheater and having to lie about that as sincerely as he can muster

@Yiren666

10 ай бұрын

Oh if evidence don't matter to you, I guess I can accuse you that you're cheating in chess also, I will say no need for me to present proof cuz you're straight up lying???🤡🤡🤣🤣🤣 another a** clown if the world is like that no evidence = guilty, this world will be set on fire.

@johnnydoe3603

10 ай бұрын

@@Yiren666At some Point Magnus became a Cult and Logic became the Victim. 😂

@dereknichols4376

10 ай бұрын

@@Yiren666 And where he is now kiddo? He play with 99-100% accuracies before,now he cant even beat a fm+im in the last rapid wcc a joke for a gm

@dereknichols4376

10 ай бұрын

@@johnnydoe3603 Lmao,all these kiddo talking about 'logic' but don't even have a good logic themself the irony

Proving that someone cheated is possible when it's caught at the spot. Proving that someone didn't cheat is a probatio diabolica. Magnus's accusation is based on no evidence. It's basically "I think he cheated. I don't know how, but he definitely cheated". But when you watch side-by-side comparison of GMs when they stream matches, you see that GMs could roughly tell what the other side wants to do only based on a single move. Being incapable of explaining your own moves, in addition to bad reputation and abnormal rating progression, probably are the combination that ends Han's career.

@bradycrowson

9 ай бұрын

Unable to explain own moves is the biggest thing. I am not the biggest chess fan, but whenever I watch a GM play they always talk about the logic behind their moves and plan their next 5 or 6 moves vbefore the opponent even moves. Even after the games they can usually recall almost every move during the game

@majormononoke8958

9 ай бұрын

Nah, Hans just is a instinct player. And there are enough grand masters that dont can explain shit just look at Mamedyarov, Shakhriyar and only because they can explain stuff doesnt mean that they are right to be honest.@@bradycrowson

He is a cheater, cheaters cheats.

@Blueshoebox

9 ай бұрын

If he cheated once he'll do it again

the guy is a cheat and not worth loosing more sleep over!

You nailed it !

He doesn't know to explain what he is playing at the table like other grandmasters. So ? What does he know?

@chriszhang1660

10 ай бұрын

Bzzz bzzz

I don't cheat, we are Indians true by blood

@MorningNapalm

9 ай бұрын

The difference is that no one cares if you cheat.

I agree with you. Being so suspicious is bad for chess. A valid argument to ban him lies in the fact he cheated before.

@Yiren666

10 ай бұрын

He can't be ban on the OTB cuz there is no proof of him cheating, cheating on OTB is practically impossible on that time cuz FIDE isn't some sort of a m9r9n that doesn't put some high security measures, like you can even see there are watchers beside Magnus and Hans during the game and literally there are cameras everywhere and when entering the room there are security that has detectors on their hand which scans the body of any sus. device intact to their body, in conclusion there is zero to none evidences to prove Hans is cheating, Magnus is just a sore loser, he underestimated a player that has the same title as his, remember he is a human and not some sort of komodo or stockfish engine that can maintain his own peak ELO.

@kartikeyatiwari2502

10 ай бұрын

He never cheated in OTB

@kayasper6081

10 ай бұрын

@@kartikeyatiwari2502 That doesn't matter anymore. He became bad for chess.

@johnnydoe3603

10 ай бұрын

@@kayasper6081The Only thing Bad for Chess are Fanboys who can’t take the Loss of their Demigod in their Stride. 😂

@johnnydoe3603

10 ай бұрын

@@kartikeyatiwari2502You seem to be a Person who has Logic. But you will Suffer because 95% People don’t have Logic, especially the Fangirls of Magnus. 😅