Here's the thing about Owlman and his philosophy: it doesn't really hold up to scrutiny. For starters, he suffers from a severe case of confirmation bias. Think about it: he never explains how he determined that what he calls Earth Prime actually is Earth Prime. There are infinite worlds, each one supposedly spawned from difference choices made, but we never learn how he follows all of the branches back to this single one. Without hard evidence, it is just as likely that Owlman chose this particular Earth as Earth Prime because it fits with his personal philosophy of absolute nihilism. Even if we can definitely say it is Earth Prime - like, say the writers affirm it or something - what would destroying it actually do? For all intents and purposes, it has already been destroyed, yet the multiverse lives on. Owlman is literally surrounded by evidence that his "ultimate act of free will" is all for naught, but he doesn't seem to acknowledge it, instead sticking to his belief as though it is absolutely true. He also doesn't seem to acknowledge that his plan contradicts his philosophy. Consider how he wants to destroy the multiverse - literally all of reality and all potential realities - by specifically destroying Earth...as if Earth is, in fact, the center of the universe. Now, what Owlman calls Earth Prime is clearly not the Earth we occupy (unless there was an apocalypse that I somehow missed when the movie released), so that implies that universe in which Earth Prime exists - Universe Prime - must also contain Mars Prime, Krypton Prime, Oa Prime, and so on. If Owlman is right and his plan has a chance at working, then that places Earth in a position of importance greater than anything else in the universe, as literally all of reality hinges on its existence. That seems to line up quite a bit with the ideas that form humanism, anthropocentrism, and even geocentrism. Do any of those really mesh with absolute moral nihilism? Would the people of those other planets have anything to say about it? Let us also not forget that, as seen in the clip, Owlman is not open to debate. When Batman tries talking him, Owlman cuts him off before he can say anything that might challenge what he has already decided is The Truth. This is the mindset of a fanatic, not a philosopher. If Owlman truly had a point, he would engage Batman in a debate; See the Justice League animated series for an example of how that would go. Instead, Owlman refuses to be challenged at all. Batman is right to call him insane when he realizes this. Of course, Batman does expose Owlman for what he truly is right before delivering his final blow. Quote, "We both stared into the abyss, but when it stared back, you blinked." Both Batman and Owlman have seen darkness beyond what most people can fathom. Batman did not allow that darkness to shake him, but Owlman gave into it completely. Given which of these two is the hero and which is the villain, who do you suppose is meant to be correct? Analyzing where Owlman's philosophy comes from is interesting, of course, but let us never forget why he loses at the end.

@carlosvasquez1947

8 ай бұрын

Lets not also forget that if he truly believed in his philosophy and if earth prime is actually true then he should know that he can never reach Earth Prime, because once he did reach there then reality has already split, one where he never arrived (True Earth Prime) and one where he did and blow it up (Alternate Earth Prime), so in theory he can never reach there cause he had already made a choice

@jeanbob1481

8 ай бұрын

This is correct. Owlman is emotionally weak and got broken so he decided that rather then accepting the world for what it was and try to deal with it like Batman Owlman decided that everything must be destroyed because it does not fits his liking (he has a point) but the way he goes about it is basically like a kid throwing a tantrum.

@georgekim797

8 ай бұрын

Can't disagree on the philosophy part.... also, the only absolute thing is the pain we feel and avoiding that is the only action that matters. We can always argue if billions of us should die rn so our future generation of trillions don't have to suffer, but if destroying life is the ultimate action... even by that standard , owlman should have aborted the explosion, figured out a way back, then have a go at it again because according to his own self, that's what matters, not not aborting and dying meaninglessly... unless that was indeed a wake up call, that life death, pain, pleasure, existence, inexistence, crime, justice, indeed nothing really matters.

@GDKF0238

7 ай бұрын

“Nothing matters, yet every decision creates an entire universe” is such a blatant contradiction that I never hear mentioned lol

@georgekim797

7 ай бұрын

@@GDKF0238 meaning choice, begetting meaningless consequences and thus, meaningless universes.

I feel like Owlman's final "It doesn't matter" has a much bigger impact than on the surface level, It feels more like him realizing that his efforts were in vain the whole time, even though Batman won in this fight, there's another universe where he didn't, and Owlman's plan succeeded, but if that were true, it would've meant that despite earth prime being destroyed, the multiverse stayed alive regardless, meaning he never could've truly won in the first place, none of it mattered.

@balanc-joy9187

5 ай бұрын

Very true, and fascinating.

@paulpenguin1985

4 ай бұрын

fascinating-mr. spock

@Lemmesaysomethingreal

4 ай бұрын

Spot on

@james739123

4 ай бұрын

I always found the idea of destroying the multiverse by destroying the prime to be a flawed plan, you don't destroy a forest by cutting down the first tree then all the trees just drop dead.

@nathanpierce7681

3 ай бұрын

@@james739123 i love how inherently stupid and suicidal owlman's theory and plan becomes the more you look at it while batman is flexible enough to take a step back and reconsider things and consider that he might be wrong, owlman staunchly believes his own half-baked theories and basically goes "LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU" when shown that the opposite is true

"you are talking about killing" "Everyone who ever lived, who ever will live" You gotta admit, he's a badass at least

@gearhead743

3 ай бұрын

what is badass about that? he's not making a hard choice, he's not really taking that difficult of a route about it. He's kinda just gonna lazily detonate a bomb on an effectively random earth and hope it happens to kill everyone. What sacrifice is he making? After all, he believes nothing matters except for wiping everyone out completely. Its a purely selfish and cowardly choice he has made. Honestly, thats some weaksauce.

@JamarD421

3 ай бұрын

​@@gearhead743I agree to an extent. The voice actor sure did do a good job at making it sound badass.

@gearhead743

3 ай бұрын

@@JamarD421 oh yeah, it sounds badass, but that doesn't make it badass. He's still a coward.

@Melissa31179

2 ай бұрын

​​@@gearhead743I think whats badass about him is how strongly he clinges to that belief, he is so utterly convinced to a point where you could explain to him over many hours why he is wrong and he wouldn't truly listen to a single word, a strong sense of self is appealing even if delusional

@gearhead743

2 ай бұрын

@@Melissa31179 , that's not called being badass. That's just called being delusional.

Owlman said it doesn't matter because he knew the moment Batman came through there was another timeline where he did win. It didn't matter, basically like shattering a mirror doesn't destroy what made the reflection. That's why "infinite earths" at a certain point becomes a writer's weakness. "Oh that earth where the story that didn't profit well. That wasn't the real earth, It's an elseworld story" "It doesn't matter"

@Tomm2Hands

Жыл бұрын

so the fact that owlman was there in the first place proved that he did it somewhere else, so to speak, according to his own reasoning?

@ExeErdna

Жыл бұрын

@@Tomm2Hands Yup, he already won an infinite amount just by finding that prime earth.

@TheGr8one1022

9 ай бұрын

I feel like that's not why he said it, because the other timeline where he lost wouldn't be Earth Prime but a spinoff universe like his, and he knows that. He says that because he realizes, well, it doesn't matter. His plan was wrong, a desperate and flawed attempt that could never have worked. No matter what he did, his choice was meaningless, and instead of aborting the bomb he just accepts that nothing matters. At most, someone from another universe making a choice with consequences in the Prime universe, like him, could create a multiversal paradox, like a time travel paradox, that would unravel the multiverse. That's likely why Batman was willing to risk following him; even though Owlman's theory had holes, the consequences of him being right would end everything.

@carlosvasquez1947

8 ай бұрын

Nope im sorry to say but thats not what he meant, the writer for the movie confirmed it, what happened was once it panned to the abort button it was Owlman realising that he had a choice to disabled it or not, and once he realized that choice, reality has already split in 2, so he was no longer in the True Earth Prime

@Ultimate_Gamer_3000

4 ай бұрын

​@@carlosvasquez1947he literally was not on earth at all when the opportunity appeared to him. He was on a separate planet entirely.

"There are alternate versions of me that you would find quite charming." Holy fucking shit.

@tomnorton4277

3 ай бұрын

To be fair, this Owlman is pretty charming anyway because James Woods is awesome. Completely different from Hades, aside from being a villain, but his voice acting is just as amazing here as it is in Hercules.

@ToxicCatMC

Ай бұрын

The biggest “look in the mirror buddy” ever

Its funny cause ownlman said that any choice will create a new universe meaning earth prime if it even exist will always protect itself because there will be two earth primes one that got destroyed and another one that didnt owlman was doomed to never reach earth prime once they arrived there imo.

@james739123

4 ай бұрын

The idea to destroy the multiverse is a flawed hypothesis from the start, you don't destroy a forest by chopping the first tree and expect all the other trees to just drop dead at the same time.

@YOLO-ww1so

26 күн бұрын

Hence his last word... "It doesn't matter" Such a cool writing.

It dawned on me that Owlman discovered what's wrong with modern storytelling in each major comic book franchise and the media they inspired. The rampant obsession and oversaturation of the multiverse trope has devalued the original stories that they spawned from. How is it possible to be invested in one hero's journey when that journey has already split off into a hundred different branches devoid of meaning and consequence from one another? How can anyone keep track of all this garbage that keeps getting pumped out with no end in sight?

@TheKBC14

Ай бұрын

what’s wild is that is reality.

@clovernacknime6984

Ай бұрын

Marvel and DC comics aren't hero's journeys, they're soap operas with lasers. A multiverse is perfect fit for the genre.

What I just kinda realized is that Owlman is functionally making the original comics philosophy the bad guy. I love it

if empathy is an evolutionary survival advantage one could argue what we commonly know as "good morality" to be a survival advantage, but whether it is moral or not for a species to propagate or be driven extinct, that depends on the observers subjective view

The irony of Owlman's plan is that his plan wouldn't work. Even if we assume he correctly deduced that this specific Earth was Earth-Prime, and that destroying Earth-Prime would actually cause a chain reaction across the Multiverse, it still wouldn't work. As soon as he connected Earth-3 to Earth-Prime, he reintroduced human choice to Earth-Prime. As soon as he phased himself and his bomb onto that dustball, Earth-Prime branches knto Earth-Prime2, and destroying that Earth doesn't further his goals. At best, it destroys an exact copy of the Multiverse that branched off of Earth-Prime2, leaving the primary Multiverse completely untouched.

@jonathankhan7184

3 ай бұрын

Exactly and that's "it doesn't matter" he realized this in the end. That's also why Bruce calls him insane, not because it's a crazy concept but actually executing the idea is nearly impossible yet he still tries. Notice how he cuts Bruce off every time he tries to challenge his idea

@cultofmel

2 ай бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking. If for each individual action within a universe another universe is created, then for each individual action within a multiverse another multiverse must be created. You can't destroy universes without making multiverses.

@TheKBC14

Ай бұрын

exactly there’s one thing we can’t beat reality itself

In the desolate wasteland, where ruins lie, Owlman and Batman meet beneath the sky. Their battle unfolds amidst the barren terrain, As they clash in silence, consumed by pain. With each blow exchanged, Owlman feels the abyss' pull, A darkness within him, a void so full. But when Batman speaks of the abyss' gaze, Owlman hesitates, lost in its maze. "What do you see, Owlman?" Batman's voice cuts deep, "In the abyss, where secrets and shadows sleep." Owlman's resolve wavers, his spirit shaken, As he confronts the truth he's forsaken. For in the depths of his soul, he glimpses the abyss' stare, A reflection of his darkness, a weight to bear. In Batman's eyes, he sees his own despair, A mirror image of his soul laid bare. But before he can answer, before he can speak, Owlman is engulfed by the abyss' bleak. A flash of light, a twist of fate, And in an instant, he meets his final gate. As he's torn away from the wasteland's grip, Owlman wonders if Batman's words were a trip. For in the abyss' embrace, he faces his end, A fate sealed by darkness, no chance to amend. Alone in the void, Owlman drifts alone, Haunted by memories of the life he's known. In the emptiness, he feels a profound sorrow, For the path he walked, and what he'll never borrow. As he reflects on his choices, his heart grows heavy, For the lives he's shattered, the pain so levy. In the darkness of the abyss, he's left to mourn, For the chance at redemption that will never be born. And as eternity stretches before him, vast and bleak, Owlman realizes the truth he must speak. That in the depths of the abyss, where shadows dance, There's no escape from the darkness, no second chance.

@guhuuuugj

Ай бұрын

Holy shit man that was the coolest thing ive read

“It don’t mattuh. None of this mattuhs.” - Carl Brutananadilewski

Most brilliant DC "Villain" of all time.

@amonnmusic

8 ай бұрын

Idk about this take ngl

@gamerstheater1187

4 ай бұрын

my brother in christ, he tried to end reality

@jmgonzales7701

6 күн бұрын

@@gamerstheater1187 yea he is a villian. if they wanted to make his character more compelling they should have just made him a pragmatic dude who doesn't side with anyone that has some values and virtues different from everyone else.

Dam, he got a point

Nice work on intertwining these topics. Looking forward to more content!

I'd say he's right in that morality is a construct that we have mutually agreed to follow and can vary from person to person, I would counter with it also doesn't matter, as morality, laws, and ethics are the nets that keep us from becoming amoral monsters and the worst version of ourselves. If we embrace his philosophy we must also discard anything beyond hedonism and self-interest, in turn destroying any potential future for the sake of the here and now, as there is no future in his philosophy. First humanity establishes morals, it does this for it's own survival, it's own self-interst, then humanity establishes Ethics to guide our morality further, then it establishes Laws to build upon morality, and through this build society, there is no unity in a purely self-interested ideology ad thus no future as there is nothing to build upon and nothing to raise up.

Owlman's Nihilism is just more stable version of Nihilism than the Joker's.

finally a comic book analysis that is actually respectful of the viewers time, thank you for not making this the monetizable 10 minutes nor self indulgent 39 minutes

Very clever writing

I can't believe you lured me in with a comic! Never heard of Owlman. Nice work on the video.

I would like to travel around the multiverse

@anon3631

6 ай бұрын

I'd just visit a universe where technology is advanced and my self / counterpart there is in power. I'd betray his ass and chrome up (for immortality + AP boost) then I travel and loot the remaining universes where I exist in any shape or form through time and space, to the vanishing point of eternity. It would be funny tbh, it's like replaying the same game but picking different choices and endings.

2 sides of the same coin. I believe it doesn’t really matter because theirs no multiverse, each decision we make doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things as they’ll happen regardless. It’s like playing a game your actions don’t matter if the creators retcon it on the next game. We still make choices but the universe decides which are real and which don’t matter

In the comics, owlman is actually batman's older brother,

My favorite depeche mode song

Joker: I am the crazy supervillain ever *NO* *ONE* can match me Owlman: I am crazier Joker: How so? Owlman: I had Wonder Woman as a girlfriend and *STILL* wanted to destroy the omniverse. Joker: Please teach me senpai

We had a similar dilemma in English with Frankenstein's monster being evil by nature or nurture the answer we came up with is both actions build repetitiveness like smiling at people causes them to smile back we natured it now that's society but we can be mad and still smile but we can fight the programming at the same time.

I am a nihilist I relate to owlman. However I dont agree with his premise in his universe if something like our choices created entirely new universes and timelines i dont think I could say the universe is meaningless in that case. To even have a universe be based around and branch off from our small seemingly insignificant actions and decisions makes us powerful and meaningful in itself. I like how his philosophy though pertains to how his universe works its really good writing.

Olwman is better villain than the overrated joker and batman who laugh

If every action you take in your universe creates another, then shouldn't the creation or destruction of a universe make another multiverse?

Owlman, Thanos were right

He’s so real

i really like owlman but doesnt exploding earth prime creates a different world where he didnt?

Me after seeing the 999th garbage MCU multiverse movie:

What movie is this from?

If what Owlman says about how universes are created is true, that what Owlman tried to do would make sense. But here's the problem with his theory. Earth is not the center of the universe. Destroying the Earth won't do jack to the Prime universe (Earth is just a tiny pebble in the universe), hence it won't affect the other multiverse. Unless of course if something in the Prime universe dies, it affects all other universes too, in which case, Earth (or literally all life) would have been destroyed a long time ago, even without Owlman's input. The fact that Owlman can exist means that destroying Prime Earth won't do jack.

I'm confused, Owlman had the choice to disarm the bomb before his death, the scene showed that he chose death. Wouldn't there be another reality where he did disarm the bomb and went back to blow up earth prime?

@yeahyeahwowman8099

Ай бұрын

Owlman already knows his plan will fail, yet he does it anyways. Knows deep down that an alternate universe will branch, like he says at the end, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter

Minf blowing - thought provoking

You need a code, if you have no morals you will fall for anything simple as that.

Modern law may sometimes be arbitrary, but the origin of morality lies in evolution. The mores we live by are what allowed our ancestors to survive; an edifice built on the outcome of one disaster after another after another. Who is 'the fittest' may be decided by anything; from a slight difference in resistance to one trace chemical all the way to the details of a creation myth, and the mindset we have today is an agglomerate of those carried by prior cultures that made it through their crises. Of course, that's no guarantee they'll get us through the next one.

@beansworth5694

Жыл бұрын

Evolution influences culture influences philosophy, however this doesn't necessarily imply that everything is reducible to evolution in any sort of comprehensively satisfying manner. Chaos exists without choice, without free will- adding self-aware, self-iterative thought and perceptions into the mix only compounds those complications with establishing a complete chronology of a deterministic universe.

@DaveC2729

Жыл бұрын

@@beansworth5694 Without chaos, evolution couldn't happen in the first place.

@beansworth5694

Жыл бұрын

@@DaveC2729 I agree, but I don't see how that relates my comment against strict determinism when approaching issues surrounding processes that are both self-aware and self-iterative. My point about chaos is about unpredictability and information entropy looking backwards, and how a deterministic lens isn't always very useful for reconciling the future with the past. Especially so when we take into consideration that it wasn't just mere objects in motion, but subjective agents like you and I that shaped the present.

@DaveC2729

Жыл бұрын

@@beansworth5694 It sounds like you're trying to place thought above physics, but thought--all thought, will, intellect, emotion--is the result of physics. Cellular behavior is the result of chemistry is the result of electrical charges is the result of quantum physics. Will is the sum of these things, not some magical force of its own.

@beansworth5694

Жыл бұрын

@@DaveC2729 Thought and sensation shape what physical interactions are possible and which ones occur with more frequency. What you're saying is true, but it isn't the full picture- My point isn't that consciousness is a magical force on its own, but that, when present, it drives its environment in a way that is so chaotic as to no longer usefully be considered to be deterministic. When I'm talking metaphysics here I'm not talking about the sort of metaphysics that imply a transcendental realm above physical reality, but rather the sort that delineate the fact that physical reality begets processes that undermine its ability to be predicted deterministically. I wouldn't call thought 'above' physics, because as you say thought is made of physics, however the way in which the two coexist and interact gives a considerable degree of power to thought to dynamically shape both itself and future events, more so than you acknowledge through the deterministic, linear understanding of consciousness' relationship to the reality it's a piece of which you seem to be arguing for.

Owlman be lookin like Griffith

Nah, Owlman was wrong. First of, how sure was he that the empty version of Earth WAS Prime Earth? There were no signs of life there just old architectures of a lost civilization. It could've been a post-desolate Earth not fit for life as there wouldn't be water (which is the source of life as many have suggested.) So even if he destroyed this "Prime Earth", it "doesn't matter" because the Multiverse remains unaffected, this whole act was a microscopic cog in the grander scheme of the Multiverse. And even if there was a version of Owlman that did find the Prime Earth and destroyed it, how come reality hasn't collapsed yet? Earth isn't even the center of the Universe, let alone the Multiverse. His plan was a sham from the start, but he was too blinded by his arrogance and biasness. In other words, he's not as smart nor does he understand the Multiverse as he lets on. So if "nothing matters" why does destroying this "Prime Earth" matter? It is impossible to find the true Prime Earth and even if he destroyed it, the Multiverse would not be shaken because Earth was never the center because there is no evidence to suggest that Prime Earth was the center of the Multiverse. Lastly, Owlman and Batman have seen the worst of the worst in humanity. In the comics, Owlman has a counterpart of the Joker as well who is just as insane as Batman's Joker. And we can all agree that Joker is the epitome of a Human's Worst Side. Despite it all, Batman never broke his code and always sees alternate solutions, Owlman sees only one solution and that is death. Batman never lost his resolve, Owlman gave in to his darkness and became a worse monster.

@PeterArts77

9 ай бұрын

I think he concluded that erasing humanity removes the chaos from reality thus ultimately peace which is correct in every possible way its our only life preservation instincts that keeps up from fighting which causes more chaos

@TheGr8one1022

9 ай бұрын

He was wrong in thinking that his plan would work, but he's kinda right in the premise. The way I perceived it is that all alternate universes are spinoffs from decisions made in the Prime Earth universe, but I couldn't quite tell if he thought choices made in alternate universes also created alternate universes, or if only choices made in the Prime universe made alternate universes. As in, many variation of choices in Prime Earth could create world's almost indistinguishable from his, only he makes some different choices in them, rather than his actual choices in his universe directly creating a spinoff universe. Either way, with one Earth only being the result of a choice not made in another Earth, this means that your actions are already predetermined, the flipside of the other decision. You're not actually making a choice, even if you think you are. Nothing you do matters because it was decided for you. Destroying the multiverse is the ONLY decision that can't possibly have an alternative, the only expression of free will that truly matters. At best for him, someone from an alternate universe traveling to, and making a decision with consequence in the Prime universe could create a paradox, like a time paradox, which would unravel the multiverse. It's a decent theory, albeit with some holes. He turned out to be wrong in that he could change anything, but his premise makes sense.

@Doyoueverwonderwhywerehere

7 ай бұрын

As for how he figured out that this was Earth prime he probably traced each and every decision on every earth until it led to this one

@nathanielduncan4692

6 ай бұрын

I agree and disagree.

@DBZNERD4490

2 ай бұрын

Owlman became a villain when he found out that the moral code that he believed in for most of his life was made upon a lie. That broke him and he thought nothing actually matters. And for us earth is reality . His plan was to destroy every earth not universe

i absolutely love this movie

When you bring this sort of multiverse into the picture, morality really does just crumble, doesn't it? No matter what choice you make in this universe, you are making another in another. If you could determine the morally optimal choice for a situation... all you're doing is benefiting your own universe at the cost of other ones being subjected to less optimal and outright terrible outcomes. If you make the worst possible choice, you are sparing another universe from that outcome. The only morality that is pure selfishness, the desire to benefit you and yours over them and theirs. Therefore, every choice you make doesn't matter because all possible outcomes will inevitably happen. The multiverse is a far grimmer prospect for the idea of free will than determinism could ever be. Determinism tells you that your choices were chosen for you. The multiverse tells you that you never really had any choices to begin with. It might be a useful convenience for comic book writers, but if you actually think about it for more than a moment, like Owlman did, you start to realize just how it completely vanishes all stakes, and thus all meaning.

@SuperVladdrakula

Ай бұрын

It's because "morality" is a joke and fake charade, made to benefit one at the expense of others... _Always..._ As that's the nature of the entire existence of humanity...

In the desolate wasteland, where ruins lie, Owlman and Batman meet beneath the sky. Their battle unfolds amidst the barren terrain, As they clash in silence, consumed by pain. With each blow exchanged, Owlman feels the abyss' pull, A darkness within him, a void so full. But when Batman speaks of the abyss' gaze, Owlman hesitates, lost in its maze. "What do you see, Owlman?" Batman's voice cuts deep, "In the abyss, where secrets and shadows sleep." Owlman's resolve wavers, his spirit shaken, As he confronts the truth he's forsaken. For in the depths of his soul, he glimpses the abyss' stare, A reflection of his darkness, a weight to bear. In Batman's eyes, he sees his own despair, A mirror image of his soul laid bare. But before he can answer, before he can speak, Owlman is engulfed by the abyss' bleak. A flash of light, a twist of fate, And in an instant, he meets his final gate. As he's torn away from the wasteland's grip, Owlman wonders if Batman's words were a trip. For in the abyss' embrace, he faces his end, A fate sealed by darkness, no chance to amend. Alone in the void, Owlman drifts alone, Haunted by memories of the life he's known. In the emptiness, he feels a profound sorrow, For the path he walked, and what he'll never borrow. As he reflects on his choices, his heart grows heavy, For the lives he's shattered, the pain so levy. In the darkness of the abyss, he's left to mourn, For the chance at redemption that will never be born. And as eternity stretches before him, vast and bleak, Owlman realizes the truth he must speak. That in the depths of the abyss, where shadows dance, There's no escape from the darkness, no second chance. In the silence of the void, Owlman weeps, For the souls he's lost, for the promises he keeps. But in the end, as he fades from sight, He finds solace in the embrace of eternal night.