I tried super hard to get my point across here without spoiling both the book and show. I really want people to check out both sequels as they're truly unique and different to each other.

@mattventura724

4 жыл бұрын

I love both doomsday clock and the hbo show but in my opinion the reason why I love doomsday clock so much is simple....fan service. I've always wanted to see these characters crossover and dr manhattan being the one responsible for the new 52 it just makes sense and seeing him atone for his sins by ridding his universe of nuclear weaponry and undoing the new 52 is 👍. I don't expect every story that I read or watch to have some deep philisophical message sometimes there's nothing wrong with just giving the fans what they want and that's a crossover. And yeah to the people who hate doomsday clock just pretend it's not canon,just like how last of us fans like myself pretend that last of us 2 isn't canon and BOOM problem solved. Also sidenote wally west now has dr manhattans powers.

@captainorigami8097

4 жыл бұрын

matt ventura thank you for putting my thoughts of Doomsday Clock into words. Simply put, it’s just fun and I like it, and there’s nothing wrong with that...

@brianban110

4 жыл бұрын

the show could've been better, I hate what they did to Rorshach, I didn't have a problem with them putting in the events that happened in Tulsa but Lingalove should've done better with that, the looking glass was the best episode

@atomicpunch1990

4 жыл бұрын

Watch Macabre Storytelling’s video on the Watchmen HBO series. It is one of the best video essays/reviews that I have seen on this website. It shows the problems that Watchmen had in a logical/comedic/historical manner. The video is more than 2 hours long but I really recommend you watch it. It deeply analysis the Watchmen series (both comic book and tv show version)

@That-Google-Guy

4 жыл бұрын

Bro you are so spot on. I could have listened to you talk about the show for 40 minutes. Make a longer video!!!

How fitting that so much of the story centers around the Tulsa Massacre, racism and police.

@RobyFN2169dtf

4 жыл бұрын

Shocking how relevant watchmen is now. Actually, scratch that... depressing how relevant watchmen is now

@ThePonderer

4 жыл бұрын

The Awesamazing Eden how are you here before me?!

@mishagoldstein2811

4 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf Now? It's always been super relevant.

@Kaipyro67ALT

4 жыл бұрын

@Domagoj Čović Bold of you to call the creator of the video "fucking stupid" when responding to his comment on how depressing police brutality and racism are.

@benduenas8228

4 жыл бұрын

Predictive programming

Watchmen was a show I had little to no interest in for months after it’s announcement, and that basically changed the INSTANT I started the first episode. Now I consider it a masterpiece of television and one of my favorite shows of all time. Hell it probably IS my all time favorite show that’s not animated.

@starlord6433

4 жыл бұрын

The Ponderer What’s your favourite animated show??

@ThePonderer

4 жыл бұрын

Star LORD 3 way tie between The Last Airbender, Bojack Horseman and a Steven Universe.

@starlord6433

4 жыл бұрын

The Ponderer for non animated shows I highly recommend The Leftovers, only 28 episodes and created and written by Damon Lindeloef

@pedrobulby7639

4 жыл бұрын

@@starlord6433 YES Damon Lindelof is truly a beast of a writer, The Leftovers is a masterfully done show, impossible to sell on a pitch. But like for this one, after one or two episodes, you have to be hooked ... And the music though ...

@starlord6433

4 жыл бұрын

Pedro Bulby the score is the best of any movie and tv show:

It is June 23, 2020. Roby has released another smashing video.

the hbo show was shot in my town and all of the nerds around town where so hyped we where not let down

@RobyFN2169dtf

4 жыл бұрын

Haha that's dope. Did you ever go to set?

@Ethan-yz6tj

4 жыл бұрын

iamthatroby help sort of... I was going to the store one day and the bridge was blocked because they where filming the lube man chase and a bit later on it was maybe a week or so before the trailer came out we went inside an abandoned Macy’s just cause we where bored before we where gonna go see a movie and it was the Cyclopes hide out it had the eye spray painted on the wall and everything it’s the place where looking class goes after the 7th Cavalry.

Finally, someone else who also liked the show.

@RobyFN2169dtf

4 жыл бұрын

it’s so goooood

@ThePonderer

4 жыл бұрын

? The majority of people loved the show??

@Daniel.Anugerah

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePonderer the show was labeled woke-trash by a number people, and it's gathered a substantial following. It's gotten the culture-war treatment similar to sequel Star Wars and TLOU2

@DangerousMuteLunatic

4 жыл бұрын

But everyone liked it

@viciousbane569

4 жыл бұрын

Daniel Anugerah yeah I saw a video saying that HBO’s Watchmen is woke

"As a Watchmen fan I adored the HBO show and I *read* Doomsday Clock" The subtle shade in that I just-

@thats4thebirds

4 жыл бұрын

So accurate tho. Doomsday clock is just a DC circle jerk showcasing Superman. Literally does nothing with the themes of the original story.

@Kaipyro67ALT

4 жыл бұрын

Just so fucking... Mwah! Perfecto.

@billbutton8468

4 жыл бұрын

@@thats4thebirds makes it weird how ive heard people call doomsday clock the only sequel that understand watchmen. I havent read doomsday clock but i was planning on it soon but i knew that was a load of crap when i heard it. A lot of people wanna hate on the show. Weird.

“... and I read Doomsday Clock.” Yea that about sums it up.

Great breakdown! I really liked the 2009 film but it definitely changed up some of the characterisations compared to the original graphic novel, especially Rorshach. The HBO show was definitely way more in-keeping with the graphic novel than the Rebirth crossover, which to me felt more like a follow-up to the film.

ik this show just came out last year but it’s crazy how underrated it is

Watchmen HBO was my favorite thing in entertainment-book, music, tv show-for 2019.

SPOILER-ish When the show had William Reeves don an inverted domino mask, that’s when I knew that it gets it.

"You can't heal under a mask Angela.... Wounds need air" fucking beautiful

That "Haitch" BO is giving me anxiety😂

@RobyFN2169dtf

4 жыл бұрын

Aussie accent my guy

Better to read doomsday clock as a superman story, not a very good watchmen sequel, but a good superman story

@KingofTheGojiras

4 жыл бұрын

I couldn't agree more.

@patrickmorris71

4 жыл бұрын

+Davod Shah, I'd say if anything 'Doomsday Clock' is meant to more reaffirm Superman and the DC Universe as the ideal of the superhero by having them interact with 'Watchmen' the deconstruction of the ideal. And that actually fits in with Dr. Manhattan's deal of construction, deconstruction, and reconstruction. And even in the 'Watchman' show the mythological influence of Superman is present with the origin of Will Reeves a.k.a. Hooded Justice. The surviving child fleeing destruction who becomes a hero clad in blue and red and inspires other heroes to come and assemble. They even show Will Reeves reading the first issue of Action Comics No. 1 and have him see the parallels between himself and Superman.

@KingofTheGojiras

4 жыл бұрын

@@patrickmorris71 Yeah, there is a lot of really cool symbolism witch was what made me love it when I first watched it.

@davodshah8869

4 жыл бұрын

Patrick Morris well put

@Metalbloodlord

3 жыл бұрын

Doomsday clock sucks

There's a great interview with Alan Moore, Dave Gibbons and Neil Gaiman from 1987 and Gibbons had this to say: "What would be horrendous, and DC could legally do it, would be to have Rorschach crossing over with Batman or something like that, but I’ve got enough faith in them that I don’t think that they’d do that." Well....they held out for like thirty years so that's something at least..... To be fair, I still think you can do a Watchmen crossover with DC, though it is telling that arguably the best parts of Doomsday Clock are the parts that skew more towards Watchmen than the DC stuff. Walk on Water is mostly just a flashback to the Watchmen universe and I'd argue that's the best issue in the entire story even though it's not that relevant to the overall plot. But as gimmicky as it sounds, I do think you could make DC/Watchmen work, but you have to be willing to make it a story all about deconstruction VS construction. The DC universe is essentially what Watchmen was originally satirizing, so I do think there's a compelling story there about a deconstruction's relationship to it's original construct. You could explore what the two say about one another and highlight and strengths and flaws of each style and the impact they've had on one another. It'd have to be REALLY meta (and you probably couldn't do it with an established DC universe, have it be a one-off story), but I think if you leaned into this concept it'd justify the crossover more than Doomsday Clock did. But yes, Watchmen the show was better.

I think that Damon Lindelof was the only one who can do something in the Watchmen universe

@adidobrea9917

4 жыл бұрын

Could you talk about Leftovers in a future video???

@FringeMusic107

4 жыл бұрын

@Mark Halstead Lindelof is a huge fan. His name is on the back cover of the Watchmen comic, reviewing it as "the greatest piece of popular fiction ever produced".

@FringeMusic107

4 жыл бұрын

@Mark Halstead So he's a non-fan because he expressed his fandom... in an inappropriate place? He's talked for years about how Watchmen has inspired all of his creative work, whether it's considered "bad" or not, long before he started working on the show.

The only true watchmen followup is of course..... Saturday Morning Watchmen

@hugoalynstephens9166

3 жыл бұрын

Strong Together, United Forever, They're The Best Of Friends!

@jonathancampbell7798

3 жыл бұрын

You know Alan Moore actually really likes that vid?

@hugoalynstephens9166

3 жыл бұрын

@@jonathancampbell7798 That new knowledge has made me feel happy. Thank You.

@WillTheGreatest

3 жыл бұрын

@@jonathancampbell7798 does he? thats cool

@jonathancampbell7798

3 жыл бұрын

@@hugoalynstephens9166 he says it's one of two adaptions he actually enjoyed. I forget the other one

HBO'S Watchmen was excellent. In my opinion. The social commentary, characters, story, cinematography, filmmaking and music are just excellent. I haven't read Doomsday Clock.

@ntinosaggelopoulos6718

5 ай бұрын

But most that series it didn't seem to have a real plot

I just found this channel while working on my final essay for my college composition class and I have to say that you make fantastic content. Wish that I would have found this channel sooner

I had a class on Watchmen around the same time the show was airing. It was perfect timing. I waited until I finished the book before I saw the show, though. But man was this show amazing. It captured the comic. Both in terms of themes, and in the way the story is told. This show was really special and meaningful. I hope more people will discover it down the road.

Funny how HBO’s Watchmen and Doomsday Clock end very similarly with Dr. Manhattan passing his powers on to someone he loves.

The only thing that i love about Doomsday Clock is the artwork. Other than that is DC saying: "Superman it's a good boy and look there's the Watchmen, cool isn't it?"

I remember back in 2017; my friend had excitingly revealed to me that DC was making a Watchmen comic sequel with Batman and Superman present within the storyline. He also said something along the lines of Rorshack (sorry if I spelled that wrong) teaming up with Batman. My reaction to this news, however, was the complete opposite. I believe I had said something along the lines of: " Wait what? Omg DC should leave that alone!".

could anyone tell me where i could watch BvS extended cut? i figured this was a befitting place to ask

@mashka1572

4 жыл бұрын

Hbo max?

I've thought every word of this video before but never had any kind of platform or way to say it. Thank you Roby.

Comments will be wild here, lol. I was a lucky young millennial who read Watchmen before watching Zack Snyder's movie, so I hated the movie (except Goode's Ozymandias, he's great, age doesn't matter). I liked HBO show, except some plot lines (nostalgia pills for memories, seriously, it was so dumb), it pocked some fun at superhero genre like comic book. But I refuse to read Doomsday clock, DC literally lost it here, Watchmen (for me) is a satire in superhero genre, why to make it a part of genre, keep it away, ugh. Great video, thank you.

@mattventura724

4 жыл бұрын

I love both doomsday clock and the hbo show but in my opinion the reason why I love doomsday clock so much is simple....fan service. I've always wanted to see these characters crossover and dr manhattan being the one responsible for the new 52 it just makes sense and seeing him atone for his sins by ridding his universe of nuclear weaponry and undoing the new 52 is 👍. I don't expect every story that I read or watch to have some deep philisophical message sometimes there's nothing wrong with just giving the fans what they want and that's a crossover. And yeah if you REALLY hate doomsday clock just pretend it's not canon,just like how last of us fans like myself pretend that last of us 2 isn't canon and BOOM problem solved. Also sidenote wally west(the 3rd flash) now has dr manhattans powers.

@viciousbane569

4 жыл бұрын

matt ventura what are you taking about, The Last of Us Part 2 is a great sequel and one of the best games of 2020

@mattventura724

4 жыл бұрын

@@viciousbane569 IKR and spider-man one more day is the greatest comic book of all time,sword art online is the greatest anime of all time,captain marvel is the greatest movie of all time and batwoman is the greatest tv show of all time.

@alvinanis3006

4 жыл бұрын

I disagree, I loved watching Snyder's adaptation. I also read the comic before watching the movie.

@mayotango1317

4 жыл бұрын

@@mattventura724 Doomsday Clock is more a reconstruction of the comic and a tribute to Superman.

That show was awesome; I loved it. The episode after Angela took all the pills was the best hour of TV I've seen since Mad Men ended.

I love your channel and I think you definitely deserve more subscribers for the quality of content you produce

@RobyFN2169dtf

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Oliver. They'll come. I hope.

Great video! Only one piece of feedback: Watchmen is still in the zeitgeist since Lindelof made it available for free! People are watching it who never would’ve otherwise.

@thequinndom6250

4 жыл бұрын

Wait where is it available for free?

The HBO watchmen also doesn't get the soul of the comic book right and here is why, don't get me wrong I loved it and I think it's a great show about racism and its role in the US history, it's a great shoe but not a good Watchmen show. 1) The comic is about deconstructing the superhero narrative and tropes, the got this right for 8 episodes, but then fell on its face in the finale. the last episode of HBO Watchmen was nothing but a classic superhero fight, with three bad guys (Lady Trieu, the 7th Kavalry and Ozymandias) being defeated with little to no consequences, yeah Doctor Manhattan dies but he got an even better successor. and even the message of hero worship and vigilantism being harmful which is beautifully shown in Will Reeves words is quickly forgotten since Angela gains Manhattan's powers right after that. (and by the way the show didn't have an open ending, Damon Lindelof has said that the ending is very obvious according to the hints from previous episodes) 2) The Watchmen, its world and its characters are all gray, yes The Comedian and Rorschach are right wing psychopaths with radical idealogies, but Alan Moore created them in a way you can understand them, and even in some cases, don't dismiss what they say right away. On the other hand, Ozymandias is a character with leftist views and noble goals but you can't stand with him right away because of the path he has chosen to act on his goals. But in the HBO show you have two villians who aren't nearly as complex as Ozymandias who both fail. I mean we see Lady Trieu's motivations but unlike the ending of the comic where it was very hard to choose between Rorschach and Ozymandias, here it's very easy to pick a side. I think, unlike Snyder, Lindelof could've actually pulled this off but he didn't either out of fear or out of desire. Because it's hard to accept that even evil racist mobs or a narcissistic lady after god-like powers are also complex gray beings while people who fight against racism and inequality can become do horrible things while we see Angela, Will or the progressive Redford government do such things to some degree, but it's not as good as the comic. Note: Actually this is the issue with V for Vendetta's adaptation too. As they turned Moore's story of two very gray, complex 3 dimensional sides into a fight between a freedom fighter and a bunch of cartoonish bad guys.

I thought I was the only one who felt so deeply about this series. Thank you.

If Rorschach was still alive in that time and sees the 7th Kavalry he'd be like Rorschach: "MY FACE! WHY ARE YOU WEARING MY FACE! *kills them all.

You can't deny that Doomsday Clock #9 is awesome in every way.

First video I’ve seen from your channel, worthy of a subscribe. Great breakdown.

How can so many people not understand the original comic book?

“This show fucking slaps” Someone said it! Bless your soul!

Good job man

If anyone wants to experience the story of Doomsday Clock, I adapted it into a 3 part video series. I think it's great. I think it is, in fact, the only Watchmen sequel since the original was a comic book. Check it out if you want. I loved the show too, but it felt way too different to me to be a sequel to the comic. You don't really even need the comic to enjoy the show, it kinda works better on its own. Doomsday Clock is directly drawn out of the events of Watchmen. Than again, I am a 30 year DC comics fan, so I am biased. I loved seeing him meet Superman. Doomsday Clock Part 1: kzread.info/dash/bejne/h6KDqdFtgru-nrw.html

Watchmen Babies is the only Watchmen sequel/prequel that I consider canon.

I adore both works, but I personally don't think doomsday clock is a watchmen sequel. It's a story that utilizes characters and some ideas from the original, but it's fundamentally a story about hope in the DC universe. It utilizes Watchmen to talk about comics in the modern day, how they're cyclical and how you can't have a world without hope. It's ultimately a Superman story through the lens of Watchmen, and I love it for that reason. The HBO show is a full-on sequel, and therefore propels the ideas of Watchmen further. It doesn't need to worry about the DCU, it solely focusses on how the world would progress. They're like apples and oranges really, to compare the 2 is to do both a disservice.

Such a great video

This show did slap. Periodt

I liked a lot of the HBO show, except for the actual Watchmen being in it. It felt weak and forced compared to the parts that explored how the regular people would try to find their place in such a world after the events of the original comics.

Facts.

You proved everyone that you are a watchmen hardcore fan to the core❤️❤️❤️ lots of love from India..

I felt Doomsday clock was a HUGE satire of comics in the modern day, the fact that Comedian coming back to life, characters are replaced by poc, and ozzy has a whole rant about how disfuctional the DC universe is

@remc0s

4 жыл бұрын

The existence of Rorschach II never felt forced though. He only became Rorschach because he went insane after the squid attack and the only things his late father left him were Rorschach's journal and mask, which he then used to "rebuild" his mind. That he happened to be black wasn't turned into a major plot point at all.

I'm just finishing Doomsday Clock, with the final chapter to go. The one thing missing from your critique, and maybe you are unaware, but DC used Dr. Manhattan's manipulation of the DC Universe to explain away the trainwreck that was New 52. So, in that sense, Doomsday Clock was the ending to a wider story and so it would never live up to the masterpiece standalone series that was HBO's Watchmen. New 52 was an atrocity. DC made those stories viable in a larger continuing meta story of the New 52 disaster by DC Comics. I just thought I would let you know in case you didn't.

DOOMSDAY CLOCK is a response to how comics (especially DC comics, with the New 52) have responded to WATCHMEN, by embracing its surface level nihilism and violence. It's a reconstruction to WATCHMEN's deconstruction. Like the show, it also criticizes people who idolize Rorschach, who see what they want to see in the character, rather than the broken man that he is. It may not be as socially dramatic as the HBO show, but I wouldn't call DOOMSDAY CLOCK "pointless" or "soulless"; they both have different objectives in how they follow up on the graphic novel. (Granted, I'm sure Geoff Johns pitched the idea to editorial as a dumb, soulless crossover, but he had something deeper to say than your average crossovers)

I went back and watched the show again...WATCHMEN has no sequel

I haven’t read Doomsday Clock. I really enjoyed the HBO Watchmen. I thought towards the end though it became more focused on Dr Manhattan than the issues of police brutality it brings up at first. After the cyclops are killed, issues of racism and violence by the police aren’t brought up at all, as if systemic racism and police violence magically disappear.

I heard Watchmen (HBO) is free on Amazon Prime! Will watch when I can.

@pessimisticoptimist2329

4 жыл бұрын

Free on hulu as well

Personally, I don't think there ever can be a true sequel to Watchmen, part of that stems from Alan Moore and his refusal to be involved in a sequel himself, I believe that any continuation of the story simply can't be considered canon. But the key reason is because any continuation of the story past Ozymandias' victory would be forced to either legitimise or delegitimise the outcome of the comic, thus removing the grey area that was the entire point, no character in Watchmen is supposed to be right or wrong, only doing what they do, this is reflected when Dr Manhattan states in the comic "Nothing ever ends" in response to Ozymandias asking if he did the right thing, this is satirising the "happily ever after" ending that appears in superhero comics where after defeating the big bad guy the characters celebrate and the comic ends, here Alan Moore tells the audience that the events depicted in the comic are just another event in time, of which there is no end. By showing Ozymandias' plan failing and Rorschach's journal sparking a white supremacist movement, the series gives answers where none were needed, or wanted really because true to the comic's nihilism it didn't matter what happened next, nor should it because again, "Nothing ever ends"

as an alan moore purist i couldn’t have said it better myself. glad to see there are still people who respect watchmen and the satirical meta commentary behind it.

Im also thinking about doing a video deconstructing both. I dont think the issue with Doomsday Clock was the crossover aspect. Geoff Johns did use it to tell a deeper story, but I think ultimately it's message gets lost in weirdnesss that doesn't ultimately matter. Beyond #8 which felt like it had the most to say a lot of the event does feel like filler.

Alright, I’m sold on the show. Anyone wanna drop their HBO info so I can watch?😂 No joke, I love the way you elaborate and use such decorative language, then take a step back with common slang. It honestly reminds me of how I talk, so I subbed almost immediately

@brianwilliams4033

4 жыл бұрын

I think they're offering the show for free since it's so timely at the moment. It's an AMAZING show, and is worth a watch if you can.

Here after it won 11 Emmys. Also, WHY ISN'T DOOM PATROL MORE POPULAR? THAT SHOW IS ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC AND IMO ONE OF THE BEST SUPERHERO TV SHOWS OUT THERE!

Moore wanted to satirize superheroes in general. Orignally, he wanted to use the Archie Superheroes then the Charlton Heroes before finally basing new characers on Charlton Heroes.

the one flaw being handsome squidward

@RobyFN2169dtf

4 жыл бұрын

Flaw?????

This is how I view it - Doomsday Clock itself is still a metafiction. In 2011, DC's comics underwent a massive total reboot, altering its characters to be more "dark and edgy and realistic". This ended up being widely unpopular, so to tie the events of the reboot with Watchmen, itself a "dark, edgy and realistic" book about superheroes kinda works for me. But that's just me.

Reupload??? I feel like I saw this yesterday or a few days ago.

Have you heard the official HBO podcast with Lindelof? It's brilliant...

@RobyFN2169dtf

4 жыл бұрын

It's so fucking good!

The movie is shown a decade early.

OK I'm sold I'm heading play now I'm for sure I'm gonna be watching this

Day 2 of asking roby yo review true detective season 1. Great video as always btw

God i friggin LOVE this show

I freaking loved HBO’s Watchmen! I haven’t read Doomsday Clock but sooner or later I’ll read it.

@irock2rap

4 жыл бұрын

Don’t bother honestly it’s not worth the time

I watched this show recently and then went online to look at reviews. I was unpleasantly surprised to see pretty much all the reviews of the show seemed to be negative. The points you made about Rorshach (and let’s be honest, Rorshach types like Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker or Paul Dano’s Riddler) really resonated with me: that he isn’t some edgy cool guy who’s above all the bullshit of society like how Zack Snyder presents him. He’s a loser. He’s cool, yeah. I mean, the Joker’s cool. I don’t wanna BE the Joker. If I had to guess, the largest issues with the HBO show people had would be the political stuff (which obviously was a major focus) and the - as you put it - rejection of nostalgia, and of fanservice that people might be conditioned to expect. Great video; glad to know someone else watched this show and liked it.

Imo it's not up to par with Lindelof's The Leftovers, but still fantastic and really ambitious!

The more upbeat and positive characters are something Geoff can do. But his main component when he writes is nostalgia and fan service. He's a solid writer but when it comes to stuff that's more complex or dark... He just doesn't get it. The same way he doesn't really get Batman. He reminds me of Tom King. I feel Tom is a reverse Geoff. He's written good stuff but he's limited. He tries to ape Moore's style with different results, and he can only write depressive stuff.

I honestly thought that a TV sequel to Watchmen which had nothing to do with Alan Moore would be a terrible idea. I was very wrong; it may be the best sequel to anything I've ever seen

Nah watchman doesn’t have a sequel imo, good video thou.

@RobyFN2169dtf

4 жыл бұрын

Maybe I’ll change the title to “the closest thing to a watchmen sequel... maybe”

@bartnail2856

4 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf no, theres no need to chamge any thing. The video is great and you explained your view point in a great way. Just a random opinion i have on the show.

@Person-ex4bx

4 жыл бұрын

Agree. It ruins the end of the main story

Great video, I think you have summed up my feelings on why I wasn't interested in Doomsday Clock or Before Watchmen but why i'm more fine with the show. Apart from the show being fantastic. Watchmen along with Doom Patrol is my favrout live action super hero show. Also I think episode 6 is the best episode ever. Of any T.V or web series.

Didnt care much for the series when it was announced but dude you just sold it to me!

Damon Lindelof is a genius. After getting my mind blown by Watchmen I watched The Leftovers which was just as mindblowing as Watchmen. Both these shows are masterpieces.

I think they r both great sequels but r very different stories. Doomsday clock does get watchmen cuz it’s not a soulless crossover it’s a direct response to the satire of watchmen by showing that the world might seem bleak but there is always more to the people of the world then that. Doomsday is also one of the best superman stories but putting him next to this satire of a world and it’s not pointless cuz this could only be done with those watchmen characters to the side. If it was a big pointless crossover it’d literally be justice league vs watchmen and superman and doctor Manhattan would fight. But instead we get to see doctor Manhattan say this “for the first time ever, I am inspired” The series is absolutely great but it doesn’t discount this story cuz it does so much right.

Also I feel like allenmore either lies or Miss remembers his own writing, I've never gotten the impression that Rorschach was supposed to be a lunatic or unsympathetic, clearly his character is f***** up and misguided, but he clearly has as an Arc of self realization, and ultimately redemption, when I see the 7th cavalry in the new watchmen I see a group of people who have white washed and misappropriated the complicated person that Rorschach was in that universe

@victormattoni4319

4 жыл бұрын

I think Alan Moore does an excellent job in making him a lunatic and unsympathetic if you look carefully into the character. He is a radical, that sees things in a black and white manner. Good and evil. Right and wrong. No in between. And to have that kind of world view, someone has to turn a blind eye to a lot of things, and easily become hypocrites. Rorschach calls other people "dirty" and "parasites", separating them from him, when he himself is filthy (in more than one occasion in the comics other characters say that he smells bad) and a parasite (as he feeds of Dan's food and sugar cubes after breaking into his house). He disqualifies the Comedian's attempt of rape as a "moral lapse", because his view of that man as a "hero" cannot live with that crime. As if he thought "A 'true rape attempt' is reserved only to 'scum' and 'criminals', and the comedian is a 'hero'!" Real life is not black and white. It has so many other colors and tones.

@Nathanielsodan

4 жыл бұрын

@@victormattoni4319 I agree if you're talking about the first five chapters of the book, before he goes to prison, after that point we're given information on his past that shows the watchmen world is nothing like the real one, at that point his character reads more like a reaction to a world where superheros really exist; also, in the chapter will receive him confront the old prostitute women caring for the orphans, we see Rorschach come to a point of self-actualization, we see him spare the woman despite the fact that his moral code established at the beginning of the book does not allow for this, it's enforced when we see him apologize to Nite Owl, obviously it doesn't save him from his ultimate fate, but that comes after the squid incident;

@Nathanielsodan

4 жыл бұрын

@@victormattoni4319 totally not saying you're wrong in your interpretation, it's just very puzzling to me that Alan Moore gives such blanket statements about the characters he intentionally created to be deep an complex, he says you are a "bad person" if you identify with the character of Rorschach, a statement that I feel is antithetical to the nature of both Watchmen stories

Outside of sales I have no idea what the appeal of Doomsday Clock would be to someone who read and enjoyed Watchmen. It's completely irrelevant the original narrative. I wasn't excited at all for the Watchmen TV show either. The trailers were terrible. However, when I got around to watching it I was mind blown. It's a near perfect follow up to the original book.

*****SPOILERS FOR THE SHOW****** I plan on reading the graphic novel very soon to see how accurate the show follows the original story (and from what I already, it seems like it does). I just watched the film (the directors cut) and thought it was pretty good. I watched it after I finished the show, so I knew the whole Veight twist. However, the movie differed from the original ending of the graphic novel (basically the whole 11/2 Doomsday in New York). Also, Doctor Manhattan felt so inhumane in the film. I guess he was trying to fulfill his penance in the show by being with Abar, but why did he wait almost thirty years to come back to Earth? I know he lives in the past, present, and future, but why Abar? What made her so special? I would love a season two, to see what Abar can do with Doctor Manhattans abilities and see what becomes of the Kalvary now that Cyclops is non existent. I wonder if Abar could go to other planets, create civilizations, or will she keep her powers a secret?

@jaymiechan

4 жыл бұрын

Part of the reason Manhattan feels even more 'inhumane' in the film is that Snyder approached it very much from an Objectivist perspective. And if you know the history of the comic, you know that Rorschach was based on The Question, who (along with Mr. A) was created by Steve Ditko to be a mouthpiece for his Objectivist views. That is the reason Rorschach becomes more 'heroic' in the film (Snyder removes some of his more repugnant acts and opinions) and the final 'villain' is changed from Squid to Dr. Manhattan; he's the ultimate in 'inherent ability' being the only one with powers, and yet he does much less than he 'could'.

@nathanerickson8708

4 жыл бұрын

jaymiechan I like how both Rorschach and Doctor Manhattan are very similar, yet they are completely different. Rorschach actually got involved in solving the Comedians murder even though the Keene Act prohibited masked heroes, yet Doctor Manhattan, who isn’t really involved in anything but himself, gets all of the attention. Its usually the most powerful hero to do most of the work and get credited for doing it rather than a masked vigilante. Snyder kind of did the trope where “people don’t need heroes anymore” in Batman VS Superman. What i think is most interesting with Doctor Manhattan is that he is so blind to human awareness yet he can live in all aspects of time. Thats his true weakness: empathy. Every hero has empathy and you think the most powerful character would have it, yet he doesn’t. I have just started the graphic novel (i’m right up to the point where Doctor Manhattan is doing the tv interview) and I am really liking it so far.

@jaymiechan

4 жыл бұрын

@@nathanerickson8708 i wouldn't really call empathy a weakness; even then, it isn't Dr. Manhattan's. His is...inevitability and paradox. That's also why he and his actions are so repugnant to Objectivists; they hold that those with the most ability should push for personal gain. While yeah, Rorschach did act to solve it, everything he does is more self-interest. Keene Act? Don't care, will still be a vigilante. Someone killing capes? i'm a cape, so i have to look out for myself. "I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me". He's definitely a deconstruction of Objectivism, where it is all self-interest.

They murdered Silk Spectre's character, though.

Those final words were the only reason I clicked

I concur, after having the chance to see watchmen in HBO the weekend it was free.

I don't get the hate the show gets, I see it compared to Netflix trying to tackle issues and pushing an agenda, but when the show centers around the issue (racism most of it) that's the fucking point, they are not pushing anything, and it's amazing, also the nostalgia episode is one of the best pieces of entertainment I've seen in the last few years

This will likely be one of the only times I find myself disagreeing with you Roby. I feel there is room for both.

I feel like HBO's Watchmen also doesn't understand the original source material. The characters they carry over are totally different people. And their 'thesis' of heroes using pain as motivation is barely in the graphic novel. Only one of the characters, Rorschach, has a grim backstory. Each of the other characters go into crime fighting for selfish reasons. The new origin for Hooded Justice is interesting, but the graphic novel hinting that the original member of the Minutemen is a fascist sends a way stronger message about the screwed up the concept of a superhero.

@RobyFN2169dtf

4 жыл бұрын

They kinda just portray Captain Metropolis as the fascist one.

@remc0s

4 жыл бұрын

Also, there was no reason for Laurie to hate and hunt super heroes. She was one herself as the second Silk Spectre, then after Watchmen fought crime alongside Nite Owl as the Comedienne, but after they get arrested by the FBI, she suddenly hates super heroes and wants them all locked up? Nope.

@remc0s

4 жыл бұрын

You are so right. It was also mentioned several times in the graphic novel that Hooded Justice had a thick, German/Austrian accent. In the show he doesn't have an accent, which is more proof Lindelof doesn't care about details and just wants to do things as he sees fit (because he knows his butt-kissing minions will praise him anyway). The following is an excerpt from the Watchmen sourcebook, written by Alan Moore himself, which makes its contents canon. "I for one applaud the events in Europe. The accounts you read in the press always miss the point. No one is talking about how Hitler managed to save his nation from the brink of economic collapse and restore dignity to his people. And no one is talking about the real vision-just the man behind that vision. Yes, of course people are dying. People should die. It's about time we exterminate the undisciplined and perverse from our own ranks instead of waiting around for the forces of the Almighty to come down and do it for us." - The Hooded Justice, as quoted in News World, Dec. 14 1939 "All this time, Hooded Justice was really a black man in white facepaint fighting racism! Ain't i a brilliant writer or what?" - Damon Lindelof, 2019 *Facepalm* >_

Amen.

Like the HBO show, This. Video. Claps.

Honestly I don’t think either are befitting sequels to Watchmen, Doomsday Clock is more of a tool to clean up the past mistakes of the New 52, while the series has so many unnecessary subplots, and unfilled plot holes, while I liked Doomsday clock more because it temporarily fixed the DC universe, I still don’t think it’s the perfect follow up to Watchmen

i'mma watch this show now

I need a doomsday clock film. I want that world presented by Zack. (Contains spoilers) I highly disagree with you as well, but I respect your opinion. Because to me in my unasked opinion: the watchmen characters are given a second chance to be bettter people by ridiculous superheroes. Batman inspires Rorschach to take a hateful and insane symbol like Walters and use it to do what he feels he can do with it. Ozymandias still wins because he wanted dr Manhattan to realize why the world needed him and that one man could inspire someone. Comedian was wasted I can’t defend that, but I do defend the ending of a new dr Manhattan being created with a good home life unlike johns. It shows he wants him to truly be better, it showed humanity can be better even with our pain. We can take the pain and shape it into something better. I love the hbo show as well, but I respect your opinion.

But Doomsday Clock isn't really about the Watchmen, it's about Superman

another W

Damon Lindelof legit educating how to do sequels. One of the best sequels ever made imo. Also, Kudos to 'HATCH'BO for making a sequel to a comic book directly.

Look. At. This. Content

@RobyFN2169dtf

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you

@christophfilms.1568

4 жыл бұрын

@@RobyFN2169dtf keep up that quality stuff Also can we get a teaser for ur short xx

Fuck Yeah dude.

The problem with the comic sequel is that it’s just a DC circle jerk. Superman showcase. It does nothing to address the core of what made the Watchmen its own thing. It does nothing to address the criticism of comics and the world they inhabit, instead twistedly reveling in the things watchmen railed against.

IMO Lindelof is two for two in terms of HBO shows.

@RobyFN2169dtf

4 жыл бұрын

Leftovers is phenomenal

Sorry, I don't consider it a sequel. The whole point of the original comic book ending is meant to be ambiguous. The show contradicts that.

Beautiful video. I am at the point where I dont care if you liked the show or not, that is a matter of opinion. But anyone who likes Doomsday clock simply dosnt know what Watchmen is. Dosnt understand watchmen. And will NEVER understand watchmen.

Doomsday Clock is the better Watchmen sequel. Unlike Damon Lindelof, Geoff Johns managed to introduce the readers to two original black AND hispanic characters without turning the story into preachy, anti-white BLM propaganda.

@klm2639

3 жыл бұрын

Clearly you've never indulged in the work of Alan Moore. It's all political, always has been. Just coz it was in the form of graphic novel didn't mean it wasn't political.

@remc0s

3 жыл бұрын

@@klm2639 Great. ANOTHER HBO Watchmen fan boy telling me i don't know what i am talking about. Watchmen was never political. Why don't you fake intellectuals understand this? It was a deconstruction of super hero archetypes agains the BACKGROUND of the Cold War. Nixon's presidency and its politics were never important to the story, nor did Alan Moore ever imply that the readers had to pick a side between capitalism or communism, neither did he ever lecture his audience on how and what to think. The last line of the book is literally "I leave it entirely in your hands." Then we get Lindelof's abomination that retcons Watchmen's resident KKK and nazi supporter Hooded Justice as a black man and a load of "all white people are racist and should be ashamed of themselves because of things other white people did a long time ago" propaganda, which has absolutely nothing to do with Alan Moore's initial concept. Lindelof turned the masterpiece that is Watchmen into a leftist activist platform, and his fan soy boys just love and defend everything he does, because they don't understand the source material and are unable to form their own opinion. HBO Watchmen is like repainting all the white militia members on Rembrandt's painting The Night Watch black and then tell white museum visitors that they shouldn't watch the painting because they are racist and don't understand Rembrandt's work.

@MILDMONSTER1234

3 жыл бұрын

@@remc0s Shit man's that's a pretty good point. Might steal this post as an argument