The OLDEST Creation MYTH in World, and its Origins
The first and oldest stories in the world maybe lost to us, but we can reconstruct them by finding their motifs and piecing them together. In this video I look at the earliest creation myth motifs, focused particularly on the Earth Diver and Tree of Life, to do this. I will tell a few different creation stories, and discuss how motifs have evolved, mixed, and dispersed. And finally I tell a story, reconstructed from all these motifs.
If you want to support my research and see behind the scenes work, watch my videos early, and other insights then please become a *Patreon*: / crecganford
References
Berezkin, Yuri (2007). "“Earth-diver” and “emergence from under the earth”: Cosmogonic tales as evidence in favor of the heterogenic origins of the American Indians". In: Archaeology, Ethnology and Anthropology of Eurasia 32: 110-123. 10.1134/S156301100704010X.
Dundes, Alan. "Earth-Diver: Creation of the Mythopoeic Male". In: American Anthropologist, New Series, 64, no. 5 (1962): 1032-051. Accessed August 20, 2021. www.jstor.org/stable/666952.
Napolskikh, Vladimir. "The Earth-Diver Myth (А812) in Northern Eurasia and North America: Twenty Years Later". Frog; Siikala, Anna-Leena; Stepanova, Eila (2012). Mythic Discourses: Studies in Uralic Traditions. Finnish Literature Society. pp. 120-140. ISBN 978-952-222-376-0.
Nagy, Ilona. "The Earth-Diver Myth (Mot. 812) and the Apocryphal Legend of the Tiberian Sea". In: Acta Ethnographica Hungarica 51, 3-4 (2006): 281-326. Accessed Aug 20, 2021. doi.org/10.1556/AEthn.51.2006...
Chapters
=====================================
0:00 Introduction
2:28 The Beginning was made from The Nothing?
3:52 The Research
5:50 The Underworld and Earth Divers motifs
7:30 Understanding motif changes, The Bird Scout
9:42 The Oldest Creation Myth Motifs, The Earth Driver
11:59 Creation Myth Structure
13:30 Looking for the Motifs of Voids and Chaotic Waters
16:02 The Tree of Life or World Tree
18:13 Mixed Motifs in the Creation Myth
20:20 North American motifs
22:07 Where did the Creation Myth with these motifs originate?
22:48 But why an Earth Diver?
23:57 The earliest mythology of our ancestors?
22:57 The Magic of Wind from Vedic to Abrahamic religions
27:37 Putting it all together and conclusion
Пікірлер: 2 400
Do you have any old stories you would like me to look into?
@50hzlegend56
Жыл бұрын
On a more academic note, I think it was Dumazil who talks about the Asir Vanir was as a indo-european through line of the first two functions asserting over the third (or something to that effect, it's been a long time since I read it). Or just something on the war in general. Please excuse the spelling, dyslexia, and auto correct falls short on these topics
@whatever41421
Жыл бұрын
Sorry not really related to your question but do you know where would be a good starting place to find a collection of these various myths- not really for study but I'd like to read them to my kids one day so more of a storybook style
@whatever41421
Жыл бұрын
Oh but also a question related to your original question: are there any stories we can trace back to a time where there were multiple 'species' of hominid? And are other species of hominid likely present as motifs in any of our ancient stories?
@uponeldritchshores
Жыл бұрын
Vidar and his possible relationship to Vishnu- a silent god who is spoken little of in the Edda but plays a major part in the world returning and Ragnarok! Tapadh Leat! Your channel and work has been nothing short of awesome!
@jessicaclakley3691
Жыл бұрын
I’d love to know the story and lore behind the beautiful tattoo art on your chest if you would care to share (if not too forward of me and/or too personal for you)
I am Native Canadian and as part of Cayuga mythology there is the story of the Sky woman who fell to earth. As the story goes, other people believe other things but this is what we believe. Early on the world was all water and there were the sky people who lived in the clouds. One day a sky woman was looking down through a hole and accidentally fell to the waters below. all the animals gather together to try and help her but they soon realized that she needed land for her to survive. All the animals tried to dive down and bring up some earth so she could have some land upon which to live. One by one they all tried and failed until finally the muskrat was able to dive deep enough to find earth and bring it back up. Eventually the land grew and became solid. The sky woman was then able to populate the land.
@jimmysmith2249
Жыл бұрын
I remember hearing about the Otter mythology long ago in my childhood. I think it was on cbc.
@littlejourneyseverywhere
Жыл бұрын
What a beautiful path you tread, sister ❤️ a gorgeous story of the creation of humanity and the Earth as we know it
@tigerlily2941
Жыл бұрын
Similar to the legend I grow up with, that being a large tuna brought mud up from the waters below and placed it on the back of a turtle. Thus land was formed. Well after the bever used their tale to pack the mud.
@timefoolery
Жыл бұрын
Interesting! Thanks for sharing.
@davidjuby7392
Жыл бұрын
@@littlejourneyseverywhere thank you
"Holy Diver, you've been down too long in the midnight sea" - Dio
There is an interesting creation myth from the many and varied beliefs of the ancient Egyptians. The lotus plant grows from a seed at the bottom of the water, shooting up until it hits the surface, then growing leaves which fan out and rest over the water. Some imaginative scribe saw this as a way that land could be formed from the water, a cosmic lotus seed that anchored the floating land spread out above.
@hermanhale9258
Жыл бұрын
There's one where a god comes out of the water and starts producing the world when he blows his nose.
@user-pv4mn6dn6d
Жыл бұрын
Well their is the creation myth where Atum ejaculates, and the Ennead are created; Ptah Tatenen was the patron god of Memphis who created the Ennead from the waters of Chaos; Ra in one myth is the creator of the world. There is no unitary Egyptian creation myth, ever nome likely had their own variation of the creation story.
@hermanhale9258
Жыл бұрын
@@user-pv4mn6dn6d They probably even said to their kids, "Some people believe that story, this is what we believe." Or, "This is what I believe."
@kp-legacy-5477
11 ай бұрын
@@user-pv4mn6dn6dedfu texts are pretty close to what I'd say was the accepted Egyptian idea.
The Finnic creation myth is a combination of the Earth Diver Myth (EDM) and the World Egg Myth (WEM), with the World Tree also present. The EDM survived in a more complete form among eastern Finnish tribes, as well as among Karelians, not to mention some of our eastern relatives further away; people like the Komi, Nenets, Khanty etc. While the Kalevala is a historic book from the mid 19th century, the sacred runic poems it contains belong to a huge corpus of Finnic mythology, collected over the past four or five centuries. The original poems are sung in an octosyllabic meter.
@hermanhale9258
Жыл бұрын
Like the poem "Hiawatha" that used to be taught to American school kids.
I'm simply fascinated by the fact that we can reconstruct pieces of the culture of our ancestors from tens of thousands of years ago. This is yet another example of doing away with the prejudice about early humans being grunting and primitive imbeciles. We have to realize: they were probably very much like us today - just starting civilization from scratch. They have been asking the same questions we are looking into today. Who are we? Where did we come from? Where did the world/universe come from?
@vampiricagorist6979
Жыл бұрын
That, right there, is why I’m so obsessed with this field of research. I enjoy learning about the ancestors that we’ve forgotten. I absolutely hate the common conception of our ancestors as idiots who didn’t understand technology. I’d actually argue that they were a lot more remarkable than many of us today in the sense that, as you said, they quite literally tamed the natural world and started civilization without knowing anything that we do today. I’d love to speak to some of these people. I’m sure they were absolutely awesome people, those early human scientists and engineers.
@derekfume8810
Жыл бұрын
@@vampiricagorist6979 You shouldn't be so optimistic about them too. Don't overestimate. The key observation is - they were exactly the same 10k BC as humans now days.
@vampiricagorist6979
Жыл бұрын
@@derekfume8810 I don’t doubt that. I’m just trying to emphasize how remarkable these people were to figure out things like agriculture with no prior help. That isn’t to discount the many innovations made my our more recent ancestors, but there’s a level of respect that I think we ought to apply to the most ancient of our ancestors, even if we may never know their names.
@TheSulross
Жыл бұрын
@@derekfume8810 I don't know, the WW2 generation were loads more capable people on average than people today. Even today's farmers don't hold a candle to the abilities of that generation so can well image the generations from tens of thousands prior were very different than moderns - just as a generation barely removed from the current crop of moderns were a far more resilient and capable people
@sir.sturat
Жыл бұрын
@@TheSulross People today are being just as capable / resourceful / ingenious today as they ever have been. Whatever the environmental, social, survival challenges encountered, the generation(s) experiencing them respond to them by discovering, inventing, making, applying new techniques in order to create the necessary tools and technology required to mitigate or better still eliminate said challenges. That's the point - it's inherent in our species' evolution and we are the exact same species today as we were during WW2 or indeed 125K years ago for that matter. Only the environment, its resources and the nature of the challenge change. Today's farmers simply work in a different way from those that have come before - likely a more efficient and effective way I would guess. And why is this? Because of the continued application of the very same human capability and resourcefulness that contributed so effectively as part of the war effort.
If you stay until the end of the video... who stops watching these before they end? They are fascinating from beginning to end and absolute gems. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and insights Jon.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you
@citizenbxtr883
Жыл бұрын
Punch line reveal while I was on the porcelain throne. I’m not sure what to make of this but I might stop watching videos until the end
@yinyangsaladgang8789
Жыл бұрын
I dunno the whole "male pregnancy envy" thing from the notoriously debunked Sigmund Freud kinda turned me off. Freud was enamoured with his own theories and applied them to everything, it's as absurd as taking the Oedipus complex seriously as a psychological phenomenon and then inferring that the Hindu texts must've been written by a bunch of men who wanted to sleep with their dominant mothers. Honestly I think the assumption that because the stories sometimes featured men was some form of ancient sexism is quite dubious, it seems much more like a modern feminist interpretation of ancient writings, and seems to ignore of the symbolic idea of the father and the masculine principle (or yang) as being an energy or force that is ascribed male attributes, and does not actually refer to biological manhood in any way.
@jeffo4817
Жыл бұрын
I quit
@juanmiguelreyesguerr
Жыл бұрын
@@yinyangsaladgang8789 You have just provided a case in Freud’s point.
In Central California your "Earth Diver" pattern is recounted by several societies. In that version, three creatures are floating on a raft in the middle of a huge flood. One is Coyote, the next is Mud Turtle, I don't recall the third but I think it was a bird. A shining being comes down to the raft from the sky on a feather(?) rope. After a discussion with the raft's occupants it transpires that all three are heartily sick of the narrow confines of the raft. The shining being then suggests that one of them dive down and bring up some material from the surface beneath the flood. Coyote can't dive well, the bird can't at all, so mud turtle dives down and it is a long difficult dive. By the time he reaches the raft again, he has lost the entire load he started to the surface with. But the shining one takes out a small stone knife and scrapes beneath the mud turtle's nails and collect enough mud to make a small ball of mud. This is cast by the shining one out into the water creating the first dryland. A primal oak tree myth also circulated.
@hermanhale9258
Жыл бұрын
That's interesting that the California story has a girl coming down from the sky and the Finnish myth he told does, too.
@theeddorian
Жыл бұрын
@@hermanhale9258 Not a girl, a "shining one," though the transcription by Kroeber(?) uses the pronoun "he" IIRC. Gender is an odd topic in folk lore. I've always thought it curious that the genders of the sun and moon swap north and south of the Alps in Europe.
@hermanhale9258
Жыл бұрын
@@theeddorian Sorry, somehow I saw a picture in my head of a girl on a rope when I read that. Thanks for the correction.
My first year in college, I took a course called: "Creative Writing: Mythology." For the final project, we each had to develop our own creation myth. Wow, I wish mine had been as well formed as the one you just told! I'm thrilled to have found this channel.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you.
@alexandrahenderson4368
8 ай бұрын
I'd just use my grandmas tribal one cuz it's only oral
In the Romanian creation myth, we have an Earth Diver(called not-kinsnman or the Devil) who brings out mud from the depth of the primordial sea at the behest of another being(called the kinsman or God) when said being appears out of nothing. I knew it was very old and shared by many peoples, but it's really great to hear more about it! Unfortunately we were christianized very early on so all of our mythology is coated in thick a layer of Christianity, but I always found it curious how this very obviously pagan story survived even tho it has some Christian influence because of the interpretation of the two beings as God and the Devil.
@ChrissieBear
Жыл бұрын
Heh. I mentioned a few variations of the Romanian Creation myth in the comment section of his Indo-European Creation Myth video a while back, and he replied to the comment saying he hadn't heard of that creation myth before. I'm sure we'll hear more of it in future videos in this series.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing this, I love hearing these stories and information.
@afischer8327
Жыл бұрын
When you write that the Earth Diver is a 'not-kinsman', is it a member of another tribe, or perhaps even with a different language? And then maybe the 'kinsman' would have been an important tribal leader. It might be difficult to confirm or deny these guesses, because of the changes over time, and the inevitable influence of Christianity, as you wrote. I agree, it's a wonder that this story has survived!
@ChrissieBear
Жыл бұрын
@@afischer8327 He's translating it awkwardly, the actual translation is "Not-Brother", because the other character (who is supposedly God), replies with "You are not my brother, you are my Not-Brother." when the Earth Diver (who is supposed to be Satan) excitedly calls the other character "Brother" upon first meeting him. These myths are known in Romania as "Brother and Not-Brother" stories, where Brother is God and Not-Brother is Satan.
@Floral_Green
Жыл бұрын
Reminds me of a certain song sang by a Mr Ronnie James Dio.
it may not only be pragnancy envy, but excrement also does look like mud & undigested seeds do grow into sprigs out of it. if not for seed dispersal, just the fact that fungi & plants grow in areas with manure can be seen as the relining of creation
@loled123
Жыл бұрын
You don't need to go far down into a desert to observe plants and life clinging to valuable excrements. Merely going up in elevation to Alpine tundra or alpine areas is enough. And: Once you get into farming, before nitrogen fertilizer your only real option is refining manure. We now live in a society where we don't understand what nutrition is, and as such we have no idea on the value of fecal matter. Land being black dirt would be a sign of fertile soil, which is undersold when telling such a myth.
@jgr7487
Жыл бұрын
@@loled123 savannas & such are dry enough for this to be observable
@yggdrasild755
Жыл бұрын
@@loled123 shit = life
@loled123
Жыл бұрын
@@jgr7487 savannas are dry. The alpine environment is barren of life outside of grass, being harsher.
@eardwulf785
Жыл бұрын
What I saw when we had a contract at Blackburn Meadows Water Treatment Plant would be a good example of what you mentioned. In all the sewerage sludge which gets everywhere were growing great forests of tomato plants, you'd have to see it to believe it.
I think the earth diver myth may be counted as the single most primitive form of the ‘journey to the underworld’ archetype. Someone goes into a subnautical realm, questing, and retrieves his prize or treasure, and brings it back to the Normal world. From which his treasure brings a revolution or regeneration in some way. It’s the heroes journey at its very simplest .
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Yes, exactly, which it is why we think it came from the “humans coming from the underground, usually via a tree” motif
@beachchickensmedia
2 ай бұрын
well said!
My daughter is Maori, we're a Kiwi family. I didn't even know much about the New Zealander creation story, so thank you for mentioning it! I always love it when our little country gets included :)
@worstplayer4521
Жыл бұрын
What's a kiwi family?
@islandercirce2
Жыл бұрын
@@worstplayer4521 It's a colloquialism for a resident of New Zealand. It originates from the flightless bird called a kiwi which is a symbol of NZ.
@JohnnyWalker1077
Жыл бұрын
Your daugher is Maori and you´re not? How is this supposed to work acutally?
@worstplayer4521
Жыл бұрын
@@JohnnyWalker1077 she could be adopted
@mo0nstonegirl
Жыл бұрын
@@JohnnyWalker1077 her father is Maori :)
The Noah story is a good example of later writers not understanding what went on in the earlier story. Ravens were often taken on sea journeys in order to find land. If they let the raven out of the cage the raven flew up and if it didn't see any land , and being smarter than most other birds, would return to the boat. But if it saw land it would fly that direction. The sailors could then see which direction the raven flew, therefore knowing where there was land. Noah released the raven but it only flew back and forth. People assume it was that the raven was bad and the dove found land and so doves are good. Assuming the raven failed and the dove succeeded. But the phrase is odd. The raven flew back and forth until the water receeded from the land. Like it's an incomplete story which has had a lot of info deleted. Later commentators just made up the additional parts of the story making it into black is bad, white is good type.
@aariley2
Жыл бұрын
Ravens are beautiful and really sweet. They have a purple cast in their feathers that you can see on the sunlight.
@gaiasguardian205
Жыл бұрын
The raven flew back and forth until the waters receeded from the land, and then he flew the coop to escape his confinement and food rationed by hand.
@KebaRPG
Жыл бұрын
There are actually two versions of the Noah Bird Scout Myths... One painted ravens as villains for flying around for three days without proof of land... The Other the two pairs of Raven did not return; but since doves often return to home nest areas to make new nest stole from raven's nesting area.... Thus Noah followed where the doves were going to collecting twigs for nest.
@leroybrown9143
Жыл бұрын
The raven didn't return because ravens are carrion eaters and it was feasting after months of being fed it's non-preferred diet on the Ark. Genesis was written by Moses, Moses was educated among Egyptian royalty, they knew far more about seafaring without modern technology than we do, after all both the Egyptians (and Israelites) traded all over the Red Sea, Arabian sea and Mediterranean region via ship, so its highly unlikely they would be unaware of how either ravens or doves behave when released from a vessel at sea as they were very close to the invention of such techniques and employed them routinely, which is why Noah released the raven in the first place, because of his knowledge of raven behavior. He subsequently released the dove knowing that it would have to return if it didn't find vegetation on dry land, because he was knowledgeable about dove dietary requirements as opposed to raven dietary requirements. Additionally, the white dove is not found in nature, it's an invention of ca. 1000 AD artificial selective breeding techniques from Greece. Noah's pigeons (doves) would not have been white and no one in Noah's day, 4500 BC, would have ever seen a white dove, as even today they are vanishingly rare in nature. Therefore, this superficial, fictional conctruct has zero explanatory power within the actual historic context to which it's being shoehorned, as a little knowledge clearly indicates. The black =evil , white= good analogy is an entirely fictitious construct that cannot be derived from the biblical text, only imposed upon it, that's why this is the first time I've ever heard of it, because it's logically, culturally, historically and biologically absurd.
@KebaRPG
Жыл бұрын
Ravens Seek Shelter rand food beyond the ship' doves came back with nesting supplies
Maui's hook likely connects to scorpios, the time to travel to NZ from the cook islands is when this is smeared with blood, ie at dawn or dusk, which as the hook is descending is dawn mid winter. This happens to be the best time to travel by the sailors almanac due to wind, following where the hook descends gives you a direct bearing to the coast of the fish known as the hook of Maui. There's also a reference to the star associated with Maui hiding below the canoe (there are 2 such, both associated with solstice.) The hook also slows the sun rising above it at dawn mid summer, while it's counter part pelaides rises mid winter. A possible reason for north south split in stories incidentally.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your comment, I do lover reading other's views and thoughts.
@noblesavage4895
Жыл бұрын
It is connected to Scorpius. Te Murua o Maui-The Fish Hook of Maui.
Whenever I watch videos like this I start to feel emotional in a very profound and almost indescribable way. Like I just feel a deep sense of connection to all of humanity, and an appreciation for our shared roots, and for the ancestors we all descend from, who made myth, and art, and whose lineage survived so we could be here today. A deep sense of oneness really, for all of humanity across all of space and time. Just beautiful.
in Mordovian mythology (part of Finno-Ugric mythology) there is a myth about a god, whose name is Mastor, who turns into a duck and raises the earth from under the water. Also, in this myth there is a Birch that separates the Skye's from earth and the underworld
Your reference to "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" is interesting , I have always found Douglas Adams books fascinating, with latent underlying spiritual / philosophical revelations , he came up with the idea that dealing with current events/ phenomenae one should seek a holistic ( historic, rational, mythical, scientific ...) causality explanation . also all our universe with all living beings might be merely a giant super-computer designed by Gods / Archons/...mice ! to find the " ultimate answer ".
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
I found his work inspiring and fascinating too, a sad loss to the craft.
@KincadeCeltoSlav
Жыл бұрын
42
I also wonder how much influence other humans as Neanderthals had on our myths? How interesting that would be! Perhaps there are several original stories after all, coming from different human species... 🌻
@kellysouter4381
Жыл бұрын
I'd love to know what the Neanderthal creations myths were.
@fnamelname9077
Жыл бұрын
Highly Compelling Evidence had a video where he looked at the possibility that certain ancient stories came to mankind by way of the Denisovans. Through Siberia. I forget which video.
@sandra.helianthus
Жыл бұрын
@@fnamelname9077 interesting, thank you. It would make sense to me
@red2blackprofits
Жыл бұрын
Denisovians had 3 genes for Autism Their stories would have been more conceptual rather linear.
@fnamelname9077
Жыл бұрын
@@red2blackprofits TBH that actually makes sense as an origin for some of the weird "geometric" stories of constellations and such. Maybe all ancient stories are people remember things that autists said.
Peering in to the minds of our ancient ancestors like this is absolutely amazing experience. Ancient people believing them or not, these are some the first stories of fiction ever conceived, the echoes of which have stayed with us through millennia of technological progress and societal growth. Fiction may be an inferior genre for some, but these are the first stories, the first beautiful flashes of brilliance from human creativity.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching, and for commenting such thoughts. It is appreciated.
As you were describing more and more on the earth diver motif, there was a thought I couldn’t shake. That everything that is, came from the deep. That land, life, everything was tilled from it like a farmer tills the land. Everything was tilled from nothing. It made me think of why people would see it like this in early times. As they were surrounded by life, they saw that plants and “trees” came from the ground and as such people and other life did too. Then where did the land come from? From the deep. And where did the deep come from? From nothing. Or the void. Thus begs the question is who or what started tilling. What set it in motion? Gods, super beings, big bang, etc.
I absolutely love this research and commend you for your rigorous work. As an anthropologist, I often wish I could peer into the minds of our ancestors. I believe I catch little glimpses within your stories created from your hard work. Thanks for sharing this.
@JohnSmith-wo2fz
Жыл бұрын
He references volume 34 of Journal of Indo-European studies p 153-181, 2006. When he brings up a 'celtic world tree'. I've read the document years before watching this video but went back and re-read it as I didn't remember any mention of a world tree in it. And yes, there is no mention of a world tree in it, the document is about Indo-European dragon slayers. So he got that wrong. To my knowledge there is only one instance in Irish mythology that might be considered even a hint at a 'world tree', but he made no reference to that text. So look, it's all very nice and scholarly looking to put up references, but if they don't reference what you're talking about then you need to take anything they say with a pinch of salt.
Good work, very informative and without the standard KZread narcissism of most content makers.
@zipperpillow
Жыл бұрын
Well observed.
@Floral_Green
Жыл бұрын
His logistikón is well nurtured, that’s for sure.
Your comments about the world-tree holding up the sky make me think of the Maori legend of Rangi and Papa, two primordial parents (the Earth and the Sky) locked in an embrace. One of their children, Tane, god of the trees and birds, eventually separates them by laying on his back and pushing up with his feet.
@miyaiun4723
Жыл бұрын
There is a sacred place în America which they call Devils tower. Many believe its an ancient tree. If you see it, its covered by solid stuff, rock or something like that. But its the only one on the planet. And all around the world we have the tree of life motif. What if it really was an enourmous tree of life from milions of years ago?
This was an incredible episode, I love it when variations of the same creation myths are retold by different cultures half a world away from each other. That's what's amazing and that's why this episode was super interesting. Surely these ancient myths have been being told ever since humans started to try and make sense of the world and learned to communicate with each other. Definitely one of your best Jon. I love having little eureka moments when you connect the dots.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for your kind words.
I don't know why more people aren't watching these. They are absolutely brilliant and non-preachy.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you
Grab a cuppa tea lads, it’ll be the perfect temperature when it gets to the really good bits.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Top tip!
Earth-diver myths and the existence of only a primordial sea before the world is a basis of a lot of indigenous creation stories as well. Love your content!
One of the most stable pieces of knowledge humanity has is that all energy cannot be created or destroyed. We come from somewhere and go somewhere else. The universe is forever, and forever changing.
I'm VERY interested in the male womb envy thing. It seems many myths are pretty intuitive almost magically so. It also explains a lot of what the cave paintings were about, making sure the animals returned for the hunt...and the colleges of artists who painted the masterpieces underground
@szymonbaranowski8184
Жыл бұрын
In Vedic religion they literally have temples of Womb with sculptures of primordial foetus. As well as sculptures of delivering babies in standing position. The dualist concept of light changing darkness into day must have compete with another myth explaining baby being created in two variations from dual source, and maybe one perfect god of all sexes. This premyth somehow seems off without thunders lightning's and supernatural events hahaha Modern humans are much more into fairytales than our ancestors. Even Vikings were much more grounded than we try to think reading their myths (usually not getting how they simply understood them). Their metaphysics were materialistic. Bird moves, tree moves, water moves ergo all are equal, intelligent and human-like. Since our native myths say stork brings children or are found in cabbage I think that one of humans spawning from world tree is fully believable despite logical me looks for something deeper of reason... Haha
@3rdeye671
Жыл бұрын
Animals painted deep inside the Earth Mothers womb. Hoping for their abundance to be born into the outside world.
@dragonfox2.058
Жыл бұрын
@@3rdeye671 yup. It's so beautiful
@jennifermurphy2226
Жыл бұрын
@@3rdeye671 ugh that’s amazing!!
@bethbartlett5692
11 ай бұрын
Interesting, considering Freud introduced the Female "Penis Envy Theory", and during the era of the Early - pre 1940's 20th Century, *"a time notable for 9bservaboe actions reflecting Lower Mind and Material Focused value of worthiness, all influence by and from Rome and the Roman Emperor Constatine established Ideology, heavy in Male Dominance, lack of value in the feminine, and Fear based Dogma. Present time offering a growing draw up and into Higher Mind, Spiritual Discoveries (Quantum Physics studies), and emerging greater Facts of History. Realized in the Nonphysical very much the greater part of the Physical experience. *Comprehending the Soul energy, and knowing the secure reality of our eternal self, our infused in a Human vessel, and the value of the "Universal Laws" particularly the "Universal Law of Attraction".* These value all giving a flow towards Centered in Harmony.
One of my favorite creation myths is from a Native American tribe. I can't recall the tribe, but once the earth was created, stings of mud came down from heaven and all the people and animals shimmied down these mud strings. Then the world and earth were separated by cutting the mud strings.
The idea that many of the oldest motifs emerged somewhere before or around 75k years ago may suggest that the Toba Super Eruption played some role in the formation of creation myths. This super eruption was likely caused by a rogue planet disturbing comets which then disturbed the earth, according to astrophysicists. The excrement part may be linked to more than psychological matters alone. It reminds me of Odin taking the Mead of Poetry in the form of a giant eagle. He is chased by a giant eagle which crashes into a bonfire. That sounds like a late echo of the earth diver myth, symbolizing a cosmic impact. Odin excretes the mead from its mouth, but also from its behind, again the excrement idea, which then creates bad poetry. I have reasons to believe these are "comet birds". One crashing into the earth and causing an inferno, the other excreting some kind of substance. Comets are known to excrete all sorts of chemicals, gases, dust, and even ethanol alcohol and other liquids, also known as blood rain, golden rain etc!
I had a vision on mushrooms that was similar. It was a hand of a Jotun, or Titan that sprung from the waters and pushed its finger across the beach sand. As the wet sand continued to become pushed along, the more form the being took as it eventually walked off. Time drew on in the trip, and the fully formed "human being" walked back to the beach where the finger of the Titan folded the "human" like clay back into the watery depths.
I enjoy recreation videos of the oldest Mythology's but there are times that I get a little sad that alot of those myths are unfortunately lost to the sands of time but these kind of recreation videos are the closest thing we have and the best attempt to put the pieces together.
@michaelbailey1684
11 ай бұрын
I hope this is not our best attempt!
Idea of the oldest myth being a glorified poop joke would be the most human thing ever actually, counting the fact we still find such stuff funny. I support that xd
@yggdrasild755
Жыл бұрын
shit happens
@gaiasguardian205
Жыл бұрын
I felt like this was a prime example of a primitive mind trying to comprehend that life and planets exist in a star cloud created by the back end of a wormhole.
@aplaceinthestars3207
Жыл бұрын
"Life-giving fart" is possibly the greatest concept I've heard in a while.
@DamienZshadow
Жыл бұрын
I really wonder if they took it way more seriously than we did or if we're taking it more seriously than they did!
@suzz1776
Жыл бұрын
Lol
Its really interesting. In Hindu stories we believe the goddess (Mata) who was a Shaktiswarupini (who is the form of energy) existed in dormant state and was surrounded by Om (believed as the first sound of universe) and when Om requested Mata to wake up, seeing the vast nothingness around her she created 3 entities Brahma, Vishnu, Maheshwara who had to attain knowledge and once they were ready each was given a task to perform. Brahma was to create life, Vishnu was to help it sustain and thrive, Maheswara was to end it to continue the cycle. Brahma's creations were the Rishi's one of whom along with his wives gave rise to Suras, Asuras, Pakhu, Naga, Manushyas. Suras and Asuras had conflict of interest and later came to be known as Devas and Danavas respectively whom most people translate to Gods and Demons. According to Hindu Myths there is a difference between Good and Evil however all Suras(Gods) aren't Good and all Asuras(Demons) aren't bad. Either way, only after Suras were created is when humans came about. We have many instances when creation might cease to exist in our mythology however one of the three main entities Vishnu helps in sustaining us. One of such times is when Vishnu takes the form of a tortoise to save Earth and another time he takes the form of a wild bore to save Bhudevi (probably land but usually depicts the entire earth).
@Hindutavalover
5 күн бұрын
If myth than why millions years old om parvat in India? These stories for Vedic astrology for your information shukar planet is demon guru he also have power of sanjeevani Vidya shukar cantrol lust it means shukar create lust in humans again and again too much lust person=demon
We "Cherokee" Keetoowah have the water Beatle creation story.....So thankful for all the work u put into this channel 💯
@hermanhale9258
25 күн бұрын
Water Beetle makes me think of the Egyptian scarab beetle who seems to be carrying the sun.
A mate put me on to your channel recently, excellent stuff, thank you. Nice to see propper academic coverage of these topics, something youtube sorely lacks.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching, I hope you enjoyed this latest video.
I heard this story: A waterfowl (I forget which) laid an egg, which broke. The white became seas, the yolk became land. That's how our world came to be.
The older you get and the more you learn the more you see the basic pattern. Fascinating.
I am a Wabanaki Native (Penobscot,Passamaquoddy and Central Maine MicMac)as well as Irish,Scottish,Welch/English.I was brought up to love and embrace my Native heritage as well as my European ancestors contributes to the American culture.I have also learned the Creation stories from my Maliseet,Monhegan and Pequoit Native friends too. I love all Creation Stories;esp the ones where huge Ocean dwelling creatures... Whales,Sea Turtles,etc. carries soil on their backs and thus creates life sustaining "Earth"/World Tree,and all other forms of life(including the first humans). I also love Grandmother Spider and Glooskup/Glooskubi,Manabozo,Kokopelli and many other First Nations( From All the Americas and Canada with great respect) Legendary Folks. My Grandma used to tell me these stories and many others when I was a small child. I shared her stories with my youngest brother so they would remain alive through me. RIP and thanks for the memories Grammy. May all Folklore,Creation Stories, Legends Worldwide continue to exist and shine on for endless Millennia to Come. All of Them are Beautiful and Still Needed. Love to All from a friend in Maine,USA.
talking about breaking wind and divine wind being used for creation is super interesting. especially with the clay reference. cause did not god breathe life into adam? not dissimilar to the downward breathe in the vedic tradition you mentioned. this channel is great
Recently discovered your channel. Love it. Already one of my absolute favorites.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for you kind words.
@PerksJ
Жыл бұрын
I keep getting more and more Survive the Jive vibes from this channel. I’d love to see a strong anti-folkish statement from you. I genuinely want to study PIE and IE languages and I’d like to feel confident promoting your content in Discords discussing such topics. Everyone is cropping up white supremacist in these circles.
@vtheawesome
Жыл бұрын
@@PerksJ he made a statement on Reddit about this, but it might be best if he made a video about this
You know Jon, it comforts an "old fart guy" to know that wind from the behind appears to have played a part in creation. I always enjoy your videos!
@hermanhale9258
25 күн бұрын
I'm a pure minded mildly gnostic Christian type who hates fart jokes, but I kind of like the stories of a god who emerges from the waters and sneezes, poops, pees, cries, bleeds and digs gunk out of various bodily orifices to create the world. In fact, I consider God's Spit and Shite to be the probable origins of Set and other devil gods.
The amount of research and groundwork to be able to collect all of these stories to later analyze and abstract is just mind boggling to me. This is just more evidence that we are all truly related. Thank you fro sharing!
I adore these videos. Many of the stories are familiar, or elements of them can be recognised from how they've been passed down and evolved over time. But as much as hearing something close to the original versions is profound, the story of how we come to develop, interpret and understand these tales is even more interesting.
Thank you Jon for making a video about the Earh Diver! 🙏 That the beginning starts with water after the void makes sence because water is also formless like chaos. (In fysics the theories of fluids (cf. Water) their behavior is used to explain some models in quantum mechanics (cf. Chaos, the void))The primordial waters seem to be a transition between chaos and water itself. To imagine the waters without end is ofcourse the ocean. And I gues that is why water appears before land and the only place to look for land on an infinite sea is at the bodem ...
Noah's celebration of the dove finding a twig was enormously (if darkly) funny. Thanks!
Maori here,thank you for exploring our mythology
Interesting, this is really the first time I've ever heard or realized the scatological view on creation myths. Really fascinating stuff
Creation myths are such a fascinating aspect of human history, great vid!
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you
It occurred to me several times in this discussion that the myths reflect ancient peoples' growing understanding of plants; perhaps the earliest comprehension of how seeds grow into plants, and using that to provide a clue to our own creation. But then, I'm vegetarian so my thinking often revolves around such notions. Thanks.
It's like a KZread channel made out of all the questions I asked as a child. I love it.
it is very interesting to see that humans guessed earths history pretty accurately. earth had oceans and atmosphere to begin with, life formed in the ocean and then the lands formed. maybe they observed the land, animals, fossils and concluded that life began in the ocean.
@theotheraccount2734
11 ай бұрын
I thought the universal knowledge was a spirit guided thing they still had input from some who knew the correct knowledge... Who gave them the correct knowledge 🥇 .... Well most only get to know about the Earth's energy the earth works in the numbers 3,6,9.... The bible mentions the 666 God as Lucifer an fallen angels were 33 Percent of the angels an their energy went to Lucifer or Satan.. To kill us an wrong is... They wanted to make an marry but also to aid Lucifer and fight us and be demons and disembodied spirits.... Against us .. superior to us to confuse us all and teach us wrong. God's way and powers are 777 and beyond he only gives those to people who live like him not earth god and repent.... So everyone not in him only can say they know earth God and power.
you forgot the famous earth diver and and the 3rd avater of Vishnu, Vahara where he lifted earth from ocean, turtle one is reused in samudra manthan, another they called it Pangu myth or something :3 keep up the great work love your videos .
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Yes, the Pangu myth is influenced from the Veda, or that is the academic consensus.
@ichigoapanchal9935
Жыл бұрын
@@Crecganford so this means Chinese folklore might be part of indo-Europeans family as well, for some reason i though it was related to tengrism. damn i need to read vadas again lol
I think this story motif is beautiful. It really makes me wonder about the underlying psychology. Diving into chaos until you've reached its bottom, retrieving order out of it.
Thank you for this content. It’s interesting to hear about the Bible’s creation myth with the myths that came before as context for its origin. This kind of thinking has opened my mind to the importance of all myths and the purposes they serve.
@kp-legacy-5477
11 ай бұрын
Not enough focus on the idea they might be allegory for real science and history
Sometimes it feels like our ancestors knew more about the creation of the earth much longer before we did. (e.g. Middle Ages) I call it genetic memory, in the form of myths. (did they also believe the Earth was flat to then?) It's a fun trip, and I'm excited to where this will lead. :D I wish there was a myth that explains how water came to be. (since water was already there when the first humans existed. I don't think there are any?) The wind part was kinda funny, but made a lot of logical sense. I mean, it's so simple yet logic. Also seeing a cave man grabbing a piece of earth/dust/sand, and throwing it on a pool of water and watching how it floats going "oe oe oe... oe?"... The floating and growing land myth was born! Exgaterating, but you get my point I hope. ;) (also, probably shooing it's interested female partner away... lol) At least they got the nothingness part right. :) How smart is that? Again, must have been the simplest idea, but the concept of "nothing"... first signs of intelligence? Thanks for the upload! Always interesting to see a new video from you!
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your kind words and for watching. It is appreciated.
This is fascinating information and a very enlightening video. I've always been personally interested in what the core ideas and mythos of our earliest ancestors would have been and this is a spectacular introduction to that. I have also personally noticed these trends myself, for example with many Indigenous American stories (a personal point of interest for me) the motif of the Earth-diver is very prevalent and features in many of the legends. Great work on this video and I can't wait to see more!
Incredibly informative, a coherent and straight forward explanation. Thanks for posting!
Great channel and great work. Thank you!
This is probably the most fascinating channel I have found in the past years, I really love your content.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your kind words, they are very much appreciated.
I've been working on a table top campaign that uses a lot of creation myth motifs. It begins with the characters being created by the players deep under an ocean before they are spit up on a beach to discover the mysteries of the Lands. I had no idea my beginning was literally a The beginning! That's so rad! Thank you for your videos!! They're so inspiring!
@battelchicken2
Жыл бұрын
P.S I'll have to add that someone takes a shit in the lore I guess now...
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Always good to have a such a character in any story.
All info is good info - Have not heard of the EDM before - Thank you for enlightening me 🙏
You make it a fun journey, wonderfully pieced together and related, thank you!
I love this series, can’t wait to see all the creation myths discussed. Love that you mentioned the Finnish Kalevala, hard to find information about it.
@bodnica
Жыл бұрын
I just bought Kalevala last week. I am looking forward to reading it.
I only found this channel in the last month or two and I’m so glad I did! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us in such an entertaining and accessible way. Cheers 🍻
@Crecganford
10 ай бұрын
And thank you for watching, and for taking the time to comment.
After experiencing plant medicines firsthand, I completely understand how these ideas came to be. There really is a spirit realm of reality that truly does exist. Peace and love to everyone.
thank you for explaining some of the methodologies that are used to reconstruct the history of these stories! i’ve often wondered how scientific these reconstructions actually are. it seems totally reasonable that we can use what we know about population movements to trace the points where stories might have diverged. it’s so fascinating how many of these elements are spread so far across the world, and that if we could actually hear the creation stories of our earliest ancestors that they might actually sound pretty familiar.
Aristoteles and Thomas Aquinas have argued that we can only theorise after creation happened for time began subsequent to creation but they also argued that there must have been a formless, timeless, motionless state prior to the creation ( referring to Chronos !? ) , therefore a " primum movens " i.e. a first ( unmoved) mover " must have been the cause of creation out of the state of absolute as it were NIrvana ( motionless, timeless, formless...).
@szymonbaranowski8184
Жыл бұрын
Their thinking was too abstract. Augustine cursed us with nonmaterial soul and this virtual world fairytales are damaging our sane understanding of world, and probably will forever because we will shape material world this way.
@majidbineshgar7156
Жыл бұрын
@@szymonbaranowski8184 Mathematics/ Algebra as well as Quantum Physics are also too abstract , actually one could consider " Abstract Thinking " and the ability to draw abstract concepts through keen observation, experience, expriments , to be the higher echelon of human evolution , I believe the problem is not " abstract thinking " per se , but rather dogmatism in any fields whatsoever which can affect even modern atheist scientists as well, a permanent constructive scepticism is a healthy remedy against fanatic dogmatism , actually a division between matter vs soul could be misleading therefore the classic philosophers called it " substance = underlying thing "
Marvelous. I never could understand the "floating land" idea, because even little children would find that contrary to experience, but it shows up everywhere. You'd think that one kid, somewhere, would call that storyteller out.
@chrissiek8706
Жыл бұрын
Hm, floating land is quite logical for people, living in islands or near the sea
@zipperpillow
Жыл бұрын
@@chrissiek8706 I've lived on many islands, and they were all connected to the bottom of the ocean. I've lived on several coasts, and it's the same thing. I think you're thinking about a boat, or a raft.
@chrissiek8706
Жыл бұрын
@@zipperpillow you know they're connected, but you think people thousands years ago had such geological knowledge?
@zipperpillow
Жыл бұрын
@@chrissiek8706 I think they had feet, like me. I think they could tell if they were moving, drifting, bobbing, twirling, rising up and down, or headed towards somewhere else, farther away from where they used to be. Many islands are volcanoes. Is the volcano the entire beast? or just the head of the beast? or just the tip of its jaws?
@donnalambs9578
4 ай бұрын
Oh your definitely floating on this stuff
KZread suggested your videos to me and I am so happy it did. Great videos bud I'm watching all of them back to back tonight that's how I'm spending my day off thank you keep em coming
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching them, and for letting me know. Happy feedback inspires me to do more!
Love the explanation of your work...a many to many relationship..
I always learn a lot form you. I am fascinated by the way that people tried to make sense of their world before they had any scientific understanding of the nature of the sun and moon and stars and weather.
I'm imagining a tired paleolithic parent giving a snarky answer to a kid asking questions he didn't have the answer to. "Where did the world come from?" "I shit it out, it came from my ass"
Just started watching your channel and I am in love! ❤ Thank you so much for the work you do!
The (psychological) conclusion is brilliant. And the more I think about, more and more probable!
So glad I just found this channel today. Love the work you’re doing here and excited to hear more! 🍻
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your kind words, and for watching the videos.
This is amazing! i would never have thought we would be able to piece together and re-create such ancient myths!
@hermanhale9258
Жыл бұрын
They are just guessing. These stories are found all over the place. That is what we know.
I love hitchhikers'guide to the Galaxy quotes!!
Dear sir, your channel is one of the most valuable and enjoyable discoveries on youtube this year. My sincere gratitude for your work.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for you kind words, they are appreciated.
Really bold synthesis. Really well researched, however. Really, really impressive. Thanks!
I find it truly fascinating that 'all' was water and land was then created. All people that ever lived, lived on land/earth. It seems they had an understanding of where life started and evolved and that life on land evolved from life in the seas.
@eardwulf785
Жыл бұрын
I have thought about this too and it's uncanny sometimes just how close to reality the mythology can be. Also the 'something from nothing' and then the 'only darkness in the beginning' (before the first stars begin to form) is pretty much how science has it today
@TTTzzzz
Жыл бұрын
@@eardwulf785 It gives me goose bumps!
I was digging into Native American mythology to develop ideas for the renaming of certain places which currently bear culturally insensitive names. I came across the Yokut story of the eagle in which these two birds sat upon a tree stump, the only thing which rose above the water, and a duck dove to the bottom of the ocean and brought up mud on its bill. In some versions of the story, the duck does not survive the final trip to the bottom. This story shows the link between the Eurasian creation myths and the Native American creation myths, even though the cultures became geographically separated at least 12.000 years ago.
Another absolutely fantastic video. I love your channel. Thanks for the care you put into your work- I'm learning a lot, and I love your passion.
@Crecganford
6 ай бұрын
Thank you so much.
Another enjoyable and informative video. Really appreciate your in-depth work and integrity here! Too often these subjects are handled poorly, regurgitating the same old information, inserting incorrect opinions, or worse- woo.
It's interesting that the "earth diver" myth comes out of myths where people come from the "underground" out of water through a hole. All people come from water out of a hole, birth. A baby comes down, but if you are standing on the Earth people would come up. You also have the story of the stork (a wading/water bird) who brings babies to their mothers, presumably from the water (amniotic sack); which is dark and saline/salt water. It would make sense that the myth is one of or the oldest myth. The tree can also be a phallic symbol and the hole/underground a vaginal/womb symbol. Both lead to creation.
@AmandaHugandKiss411
8 ай бұрын
Lovely said..
I am so in love with your voice! Now I wish that you'd narate all my favorite audiobooks haha subbed!
This is excellent material, I didn't realize how long I'd been looking for a channel like yours!!!
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
Just got through the ending. That was a wonderful exploration of creation myths. I feel incredulous yet enlightened, now knowing the idea that mankind have been (and always will be) creating and sharing gross-out stories for eachother since the dawn of time. Nothing has changed. [No spoilers for others in replies please]
Your content is fascinating. Thank you for putting in the time and effort. Keep up the great work.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
And thank you for watching it and enjoying it
I’m happy for these longer videos.
Liked your passion bro!! Stay safe and we’ll yourself! X
Another great video 👍 The twenty-something philosophy major in me would be in the back of the ancient bonfire storytelling sesh ruining the mood with “but how can something come from nothing?” 😂 But anyway, I wanted to say I’m grateful to see academics on KZread create scholarly content. It’s my favorite use of the platform. I enjoy creators like you and Justin Sledge over at Esoterica. It’s a way to keep some academic studies alive and circulating at a time when education costs are astronomical and kids just want degrees that make them a lot of money. Guys like you keep interest alive and information in circulation. I wonder how many comparative mythology and linguistics studies majors you’ve inspired? I hope to find more of you on KZread and Patreon. Keep up the good work!
Brilliant video mate I really like how you tide in multiple mythologies of multiple cultures and tie them together to tell an expected earlier mythology. Great job! By the way have you done a video about the Norse creation myth? That'd be great to see, or you've already made it.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
I have touched on the Old Norse mythology in my Comparative Mythology video, as the Old Norse myth parallels the Indo European Creation Myth. I hope you watch that as it really is a fascinating insight on the modern day religions all coming from one source.
@Soarcio
Жыл бұрын
@@Crecganford Thanks I'll check it out now
❤ I just found you, giving a reference from david lightbringer, another KZreadr, who watches you and loves your content, I teach world mythology to freshman college students, and I am fascinated by your work! Thank you so much❤
Hey man, thank you for this cool info. It helps me understand some things in this world. Cheers!
This is incredible. Interesting how these stories have changed over time. I love to hear and learn more.
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your kind words, and I have a number of videos like this on my channel, and will continue to make many more. Perhaps look for the Dragon Myth video next.
So well presented! Thank you for all your hard work in preparation. I'm a fan!
@Crecganford
Жыл бұрын
And thank you for watching and your kind words.
@equilibrum999
Жыл бұрын
im a wind then [no]
Very interesting, about time others seek new info.. Thank you,!